"had [bleep] approached shaq and asked him to stay, we'd be talking about [bleep] challenging jordan's legacy."

Nope had Shaq stayed Kobe's legacy would have never touched Jordan's since he wouldn't have been the "leader". Shaq is no Tim Duncan (Duncanwill have more career achievements when all is said and done) and wouldn't want to surrender the leadership title and even at the beginning of 2007-2008 still wanted touches more than 10 shots attempts per game, only scaling off once he arrived in Phoenix.

"nobody has given me a good explanation why shaq wanted $30M extension."

Simple, NBA players want money, Lebron wants to be a billionaire and Shaq during his early 30's was still the top center in the NBA. $30 million is PER YEAR and if Buss did grant him that then the Lakers wouldn't be able to pay any other of their players unless they signed for the mid level exception (Kobe, Lebron, Wade would NEVER play for 5 million per year given their talent). So that makes 30 million and still have to sign at least 12 players so assuming there are 5 other players playing for mid level exception thats $25 million so thats only 6 players and the Salary cap is nearly touched. So sign a bunch of mediocre players playing for less than a million (which super stars except for 40 year old men would sign for less than a million??). Shaq wants to get paid, Kobe wants to get paid. Pippen left the Bulls in 1998 because he was underpaid so much. NBA players WANT money as much as they want championships, especially All Stars, that's why Arenas got an $111 million paycheck.

And even if we kept BOTH Kobe and Shaq and Shaq did that thing in Miami and only got paid $20 Million, combine Kobe's current paycheck of $19 million thats already almost $40 million. Using the salary cap thats only $19 million to pay for 10 PLAYERS. Veterans don't want to be paid 1 million they want to be paid Luke/Radman/Sasha kind of money (5 million at least).

"3 hall of fame guys to pass the ball."

1 Hall of Famer was just letting Chauncey Billups torch him for 22.8 ppg on 50.2% shooting before Kobe in Game 5 defended Billups, the other Hall of Famer could only play on one healthy knee thanks to a collison by Derek Fisher in Game 6 of the WCF with Minnesota. And the other Hall of Famer had only 2 great games and was held by Ben Wallace the other 3 games. Before you can say "oh that is what a apologist would say) I know that Kobe had a bad series against Tayshaun Prince so he also did bad as well. Fact is though, can't blame him 100%.

"my view on what broke the dynasty is [bleep]'s premature struggle with shaq for the #1 spot. it clearly belonged to shaq"

Like you said that's your view and while I respect that here's my view.

Shaq was the leader of the years until 2002-2003. That season Shaq was CLEARLY out of shape and had the Lakers still allowed him to lead and get him in shape gradually that the Lakers would either get a number 7 or 8 seed or miss the playoffs entirely. Kobe took over and put a Jordan season numbers (30 ppg 7 rpg 6 apg 2.2 stls per game) and in that time Shaq was the number 2 and actually was ok in being that and it paid off getting the Lakers to a 50-32 season and only an Horry miss in Game 5 prevented another Laker title. That being said, the next season both had good reasons to be number one (Kobe coming off a great season, Shaq still being the top center in the NBA) and simply both squabbled along with Gary Payton.

"They'd lost twice due to a combination of shaqs lack of fitness,the poor relationship,and a thinning bench"

The bench for the Lakers haven't been this good since actually the 2000-2001 season. Shaq's lack of fitness was during the regular season, during the playoffs is when Shaq began to be in shape.

"i disagree. this is what [bleep] apologist would like to have you believe, but that's simply not true."

So anyone who disagrees with you is a Kobe apologist? That is just as bad as saying the Salary Cap can be violated just because KL wants it (at least that was much easier to explain than the nonsense that Kwa-may Brown is the next coming of Charles Oakley by Mike T).

Here's a fact: money is a BIG factor in running how a franchise works, not just because of "how great a player is".

"Move with the times KL"

Kiwi means: Get over it. Maybe the stuff now bores you and is understandable. Shaq is gone, Kobe is still here. Picking at old wounds is almost as annoying as Let's Go C's! was. At least Butler is somewhat amusing (and can be quite a bit more agreeable) with Nash is the greatest point guard eva.). If you still don't like Kobe go ahead. If you still want to say how great Shaq was and how much you miss him then well more power to you. Just get over it KL. In my opinion, this talk about Shaq and this and that is just as bad as Kobe whinning last summer.

-blitz

BigTom24,

welcome to this blog.

"I was wondering if the way Kobe conducted himself on and as importantly off the court in Beijing helped curve your opinion of his charecter at all."

the simple answer is "yes", but the kobe hater in me says, it's a front, but at least the guy's maturing enough not to draw too much negative attention to himself.

generallly, i was happy the way Team USA conducted itself in the world stage. i've been feeling the last couple of world championships/olympics Team USA didn't put its best foot forward on and off the court.

"I've been a Kobe fan since the McDonald's All American game, but his off the court antics made it difficult to defend him sometimes. But when I saw the way he acted at the Olympics, it really showed me a lot about his maturation process and how far he has come. Just wondering if you felt the same at all. "

i haven't always been a kobe hater. as a matter of fact, i was a kobe fan up until 2003 when he started acking like a jerk and getting too arrogant. last year was a good year for the lakers and kobe. let's see what happens this year.

step forward or step back?

Sasha'll entertain us this season with his good play. But I don't know if he's funny lol.

Hopefully he's working on a back to the basket game (6'7) and defense.

"Well ok, now that we're all in agreement that Nash is the best PG in NBA history..."

Just say no!

P.S., Butler: Since you didn't answer my first riddle, here's another for ya!

What do Steve Nash and the collar of a shirt that was washed in Wisk Laundry Detergent have in common?

Oden looks like he's gonna retire next year. Looks like!

Magic Johnson is clearly the best point guard of all time, followed by John Stockton, Jerry West and Bob Cousy. Steve Nash MIGHT be in the top ten, but that is debatable.

GO LAKERS!

Dont be so hard on yourself KL...Im starting to detect that a low self esteem is behind all this criminal behaviour.You'll never learn to love Kobe unless you learn to love yourself first.Shaq was a bad role model but its better now.

go easy too Mr Blitz KL is undergoing corrective therapy and doing pretty well

Right much to all of your relief I'm out till the season starts.Ive been doing way too much of this lakerblogging...cold turkey now. KL promise to behave during my absence
take care all

"You are KL Yak. Yak yak yak yak yakitty yak. lol"

Jormea? is that you?

i think lakergurl has a crush on KL. LOL. good to hear from you, now bugger of (kidding).

Dr. Phil Kiwi: I'm really 49-years-old, 4'9", live with my mom and never played ball in my life....oh, my idea of a date is watching old (and new) episodes of "90210" you got me.

best point guard ever??? I agree to disagree about Nash, I'll put in same category as Cousy (rings), & Stockton (assists), but for some unknown reason, the Magic Man gave us all of that and more...he was more than just THE point guard, he was whatever was needed whenever needed....didn't he lead or almost lead the league in FT%, and eventually became a pretty good 3 point shooter (wow, remember his All-Star Game comeback, that last shot, I know it was playtime, but to hit was...purely "magic"....would have been the perfect end to a career, but we needed him for the 92 Olympics.

Back to blog topic: Bynum has the edge due to years of exposure to NBA life, tutelage from Kareem, success on the court leading to confidence, exemplified in his interview skills (confident and clear, not like that other guy, who was confident until it was time to shoot freethrows, then it was Jello time), confidence in him from his teammates...I can't wait till we have those fastbreaks, comin down the court.... 6'9" Sun (WTB-with the ball, in the middle); 7 'plus Gasol; 6'10 Odom, 6'6" KB24, and trailing @ 7' with great hands, and ability to elevate, grab a lob or a rebound and dunk it in without fouling... Andrew Bynum....

...just a few more days, and I personally do not believe in anything the OC Register puts in print, until I verify it. OC people, sometimes believe that OC is the center of the universe, not just the solar system, I've met many people who had never been to Los Angeles, to the westside, to Santa Monica, to the Strip....like I said, we should get a coupla big rigs and move the Clippers to the Honda Center (formerly Arrowhead Pond), their true attendance will double, but then Sterling wouldn't be able to have those wet dreams about owning all of Los Angeles, although he does own quite a bit of it (see Wilshire Blvd. corridor....I said Wilshire, NOT Whittier Blvd!!!!!).....

Finally, I believe this is Phil's final year in his contract...will he be back next season?

I hope so. He will be thegreatest coach of all time...oh yes, he will be the greatest.

Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 24, 2008 at 10:05 AM

=========================
I sincerely hope not.

First off I am new to this blog so I will introduce myself. I post a loy on yahoo answers and just found this lovely Lakers forum. Its great to see. I am 29 stuck in HELL, western Mass. I have been a life long Lakers fan in mass since the fist time I seen Magic and Bird play at the Garden. Unfortunately I am stuck going to see the celtics everytime I want to see a game. I go to the Lakers/celtics game everyyear I can since I was old enough to remember. I sport the Purple and gold in the sea of green and take on the hosile drunk A## holes in Boston. I loved the last few seaon, prior to this one, when Boston sucked with the over rated actor, Pierce. I loved the sufering and how their fans always ran their mouths about my Magic jersey and talked down at Kobe and the sqaud. Even at Celtics/Phil playoff games in 02 I think, the last time Boston made the post season, lol, the Lakers were on top and all i heard was beat LA chants. Like i told everyone boston wouldnt make it far enough to see LA that year or as I can say now this next coming year boston will be home watching LA beat a new eastern conf team. Its to bad i want Bynum to come back and for him and the rest of the team to have some revenge on the Cs in the post season. Boston is a one and done. I think LJ was one player away from beating the Cs and he got some help.

That said when Shaq left LA I felt it was the wrong move and Mitch needed to be dragged down from the office and beaten. Then Shaq one with Miami and I said we got robbed in the trade. We gave up the best player at the time for nothing. If West was still GM he would have gotten more and maybe even Wade in the deal. We sent the most dominate player in 30 C in the game over from very little at the time. Wade was going on his second year and he should had been demanded in the trade or the could had looked else where. So many teams at the time would had love to have SHaq.

Looking back it was the best move. We couldnt afford to bring Shaq on for the money he wanted. If we had today we would be screwed. We would br paying far too much for far too little and lost Kobe in the mix. Shaq was on a down swing and should had bowed down gracefully and agreed to stay on for less. He had one or 2 good years left but was not the future we needed. He could have stayed and not demended to bankrupt the team to sign 2 player, him and Kobe, Shaq had plenty of money and would had been a great 2nd option but he was injure prone & we wouldnt had even made the playoff with him playing 30 games a year and no Kobe. He could had help set up the future, maybe Bynum or whoever and gone out with the next Lakers statue out front.

He choose the money and greed over the team legacy and the statue. With that set Buss had no choice but to trade him since there was no way to pay him 30 mil. Its a business and he was not worth it with the injuries for the future. They seen it and I didnt, at the time.

We are much better without having kept Shaq then we would have been if we choose Shaq. We have a fresh young talented team. Kobe and Fisher are both becoming great veteran team leaders wih the stars of the future on the coattails. I just hope Kobe realizes when the time comes that he has all the money he needs and owes the team for his sucess. At that point he needs to make the right move and take what we can afford to gove him so we can put together a quality team for today and tomorrow. If he does that and REALLY want to win and be rememebr as one of the greats he will be. If greed win thats too bad for Kobe. I know he can play with LA another 10 years and provide quality mins and with his maturity he will be a great devoloper/Player coach. He has the work ethics and I know Farmar and many of the young guys have stated. Kobe loves to challenge and teach the new guys with unmatched passion and desire.

I think Kobe gets a bad rep from the Media and his passion is painted as arrogance. Ihope his desire overcome his greed when the time comes for him to be # 2 then 3 then 4 on the pay role. If it does and he retieres a Laker after 10 more years and 4 rings,maybe 5 with this talent if BYnum can stay healthy and Gasol and Kobe choose rings over money, then Kobe will be remembered as the greatest laker of all time and his misguided selfish looking youthful days will be forgotten. He will sit next to Magic as a life long laker and could stay on as part owner and ast coach, like Kareem. Kobe's legacy rests in his own hands and I hope he does the right thing and it ends with a statue next to Magic. He has the ability he just needs to overcome the greed of the NBA and the world, the dark side and be a team player not only on the court but in the contract negotations as well. How many houses can an extra 10 mil buy you and is it worth giving up a chance a a few more rings and a legacy that will live long after he is gone? Shaq answer wrong when he demanded 30 mil. If anyone knows Kobe I hope he realizes where Shaq went astray and learns from the mistakes of the past players. The Lakers are the most commited organiztion in ythe NBA through out every era the put together a quality team and will provide for him after he retire if he chooses the right way.

I also hope to see Fisher as a ast coach on the lakers bench when he chooses to leave to team.

Have a great day and GO LAKERS