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Greg Oden on Andrew Bynum

Some ESPN the Magazine work took me to a commercial shoot featuring some dudes from the Cavaliers and Trail Blazers.  One of them happened to be Greg Oden, and I managed to grab a few quick minutes with him to talk about Andrew Bynum.  The Lakers open the regular season against Portland, providing the first glimpse of a big-man matchup theoretically poised to entertain fans for years.  While Oden offered praise for Drew ("He does everything a good post guy is supposed to do"), I got the vibe that an Oden-Bynum analysis was a little cart ahead of the horse in his mind.  While acknowledging Bynum as a tough assignment (in a good way), he seemed understandably more concerned with simply getting an NBA game under his belt after a year recovering from micro-fracture surgery; plus, having met Oden a few times, he has always struck me as a low-key guy not particularly comfortable hyping himself or events. 

I imagine fans from both teams will pick up the slack for him.

Greg Oden: Download greg_oden.mp3


Comments () | Archives (72)

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Oden doesn't have much polish when it comes to offense. But he can be a stud on paint defense.

I'm betting on Bynum. He's got the edge of experience lol.

Go Lakers!

Wow. I miss Slava and Chick. Those videos in the last thread had me laughing so hard. And now Ronny is gone too! Who is going to be the next Slava or Turiaf? Let's put it to a vote who we think is most likely to give us the most laughs this year.

You can hear the anticipation in Oden's voice. It's been a long road for him so far...

It occurs to me that there's a growing divide between teams with top flight centers and those without. Of course, we're on the right side of the tracks...

But with all of the young talent around the league, don't you think its going to be tough for teams without a legit 5 to match up?

Refreshing - two big men who understand that the key to being good is performance, not hype.

I like what I see from both of them.

6 more days till training camp......


Oden doesn't have much polish when it comes to offense. But he can be a stud on paint defense.

I'm betting on Bynum. He's got the edge of experience lol.

Go Lakers!

Posted by: Faith | September 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM

I agree and since Bynum has the experience and Cap in his corner he has the clear advantage.

Oden will be in his rookie year and probably will hit the rookie wall. He has a ways to go before seriously competing with AB.

Oden and bynumb, if they could combine into one man with two good knees, would make a workable center.

Meanwhile, in PHX, this was reported by Paul Coro in AZ about Goran "Dragon Magic" Dragic:

"Dragic most recently played six weeks ago during Tau Ceramica's camp but fared well Tuesday, with defensive gems (blocks at the rim and a pickpocket steal) and the vision to hit perimeter players on kickouts. His best moves came when he dribbled the ball around his back on a fast break to evade a defender and when he used a high screen to split Bell and Robin Lopez.

"I'm very optimistic about his skills," Porter said. "He does a good job with pick-and-roll situations. He competes. He has a good knack for finding people in traffic. He has the qualities to play that position."

Interview with Andrew Bynum some key stuff:

"Q: Do you have a girlfriend? My daughter is 21.
A: I had a girlfriend. We broke up."

For those gals who are single and is interested, heck AB is available.

"Q: How long did it take you to get over the “awe” factor of working with Kareem?
A: It’s funny, I was so star-struck when I first met him I called him ‘Wilt.’ I think he was a little offended."

I'm surprised that Cap was willing to give Andrew his tutelage after calling him Wilt, given the bad relationship between Wilton Norman (Chamberlain) and Kareem.

"Q: We all know that ‘Halo’ is your favorite video game. Do you have any other favorites?
A: I’m a Madden guy."

Madden 09 really pales compared to Madden 08.

His knee seems 100% ready no swelling or anything. Andrew seems ready to go and if he wants to get to the All Star team, he will have to dominate on both ends of the floor. We are almost there Laker fans. Just a few more days.


Sun to Talk: The Los Angeles Lakers will introduce Chinese guard Sun Yue to the media on Wednesday afternoon.

1. Kareem
2. Magic
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. Baylor
6. West
7. Shaq
8. Mikan
9. Worthy
10. Goodrich

If I have but one life to live, thank God it's as a Laker Fan.

HEAVEN = Courtside Laker seats
HELL = being forced to watch a FUNS game
PURGATORY = Watching FUNS games forever

On Oden vs. Bynum, at least for this first matchup:

Bynum has an edge on experience, of course.

However, note that the Lakers have more experience WITH Bynum as well.


You and your breathern, Blitz, have lost your fricken minds.

Let me critique...

1. Kareem--Kareem was amazing and my number two on the list, but he did not spend his entire career with the Lakers and was a far more one-dimensional player than Magic.

2. Magic--Magic was BY FAR the Greatest Laker of all time. Have you noticed the statue of him outside Staples? No statue of Wilt or Kareem outside Staples. Nope. Just Magic. Hey, didn't Dr. Jerry Buss GIVE a 5% ownership share of the Lakers to Magic? I wonder why? Did you ever see Magic play? He was CLEARLY the leader of Showtime. There has never been a player like him an never will. Name another player who can play all five positions and average a triple double.

3. Wilt--Wilt was arguably the Greatest player of all time, but he only won one Championship with the Lakers and didn't play that long on the team.

4. Kobe--Four is too high, but not too too high.

5. Baylor--I love Elgin Baylor. He is not appreciated enough for everything he brought to the Lakers... but he never won a Championship and he retired during the Great 72 win season.

6. West--Number six? Are you kidding me? The Logo? Do you remember that he was also our GM during the Showtime Era? Jerry West is arguably the number two Greatest Laker of all time.

7. Shaq--Compared to the rest of the Laker Greats, over-rated. He should be no higher than number nine, especially considering his behavior.

8. Mikan--I under-ranked George Mikan. He should be in the top three or four. The guy lead us to seven championships. He averaged 30.3 points in one Finals series WHILE PLAYING WITH A BROKEN HAND. The guy was absolutely amazing. Since this was in the 50s everyone forgets about how amazing he was, but if you do your research, this guy was in another world as a player. Clearly the White Wilt Chamberlain.

9. Worthy--I think Big Game James should be eighth.

10. Goodrich--The James Worthy of the West Era. A Great player, but number ten is appropriate.


There has never been a player like him an never will. Name another player who can
play all five positions and average a triple double.Posted by: Jon K. |
September 24, 2008 at 08:06 AM


Mamba24: How can purgatory be worse than Hell? Get your theology straight :)

Jon K: I think many people who make these top 10 best Lakers list never saw some of the players play. I totally agree with you about Magic and Jerry West. I never saw Mikan play at all and missed Elgin's prime. As great as Kareem was as a Laker, most of his greatest scoring and rebounding years were with the Bucks.
Though I may not declare Magic to be the best pure point guard ever, he was the greatest player ever regardless of position.

Oscar never played center or power forward.

I think Sasha will gives us the most laughs just because of his facial expressions. Radman would be my second choice.


Oscar Robertson was amazing and, yes, he was in that elite triple-double echalon; however, no way he could take over for Kareem Abdul-Jabaar as center and score 30 points.

The guy was a strict shooting guard/small forward.


From the OC register:

"Q: Who inspired you to play basketball?
A: My dad. He played one year for the Celtics and also in college. So I guess it rubbed off on me. When I was in the second grade, he handed me a ball and said ‘See what you can do with it.’"

Wait, wait, wait. Andrew Bynum's dad played in the NBA? For the Celtics? Who is his dad? How come I've never heard of this?????

Regarding Oden...

Enjoy, guys, girls, ghosts and ghouls.

Have a nice day.

P.S. Fearless, thanks for the response on the previous thread. Long live Fed Reserve and Dept of Treas!

On "Finals Moments" last night, they highlighted the 1969 Finals . . . this was when the lakers had the three stars incl Wilt and West....the Knicks lost Willis Reed in Game 5, and the series was tied 3-3 going to NY.

Of course, Reed played a couple minutes in Game 7, showed his team what true greatness is (Paul Pierce did the same I suppose, as Pres. Bush noted), and the knicks won the title.


The guy was a strict shooting guard/small forward.
GO LAKERS! Posted by: Jon K. | September 24, 2008 at 09:10 AM

I thought I could sneak it by you, but i see you on the ball as usual. In fact you almost have me convinced that
Magic is the greatest of all time but my vote stil goes to
Wilt. Greatest Scorer, Greatest Rebounder, Greatest passer and he ciould have even been the greatest Assists man as he showed in his Laker years.

Rdlee "Mamba24: How can purgatory be worse than Hell? Get your theology straight :)"
OH IT IS MY FRIEND. In Hell, you know you are going to
be there forever. In purgatory you don't know whether
you'll be there forever, whether you're going to Heaven or hell after or what.. Of course I being Niechiean believe
in neither.

By the way RDLee, How the Hell you been? :) You're
getting itchy now that preseason is just around the corner huh?
Good to see you posting again my brother.

George Mikan was absolutely amazing.

I invite you to read upon the guy who introduced Greatness to the Lakers.

I sure hope Kareem Abdul-Jabaar is making Andrew Bynum, Chris Mihm, and C.J. Giles read up on this. Some of these early training techniques would be perfect for those guys.


Funniest Laker This Year

I'm going with Sasha, I think Vladimir will make us scream and throw a rubber chicken at the TV (better than a rock or empty beer) because he sometimes looks like he forgot where he is and what he is doing. Seriously, I think the guy might have a form of ADD. But then he'll come down and start bombing 3's and I start thinking, 'OK, this is the guy I saw help the Clippers after the Chris Wilcox trade'. Then he dribbles into triple coverage (why is he dribbling at all?) turn the ball over and commit a silly foul. He also should be forbidden from throwing length of the court passes. Only Odom and Walton are any good at the Hail Mary of the NBA.

On Oden, I wouldn't expect too much out of the young man, he does have the potential to be a double threat big (offensive excellence as well as defensive) but I think he'll have a hard time with some of the NBA's loonier rules. He also will be a rookie and will hit a wall about February (remember AB 17s first couple of years). His one advantage over Bynum is his collegiate year, which is partly nullified due to his injury and sitting out all last year. Finally, #4 also hit the nail on the head as far as Laker team comfortability and Blazer unfamiliararity. The starting five (except Gasol) has played well with Bynum. No Blazer has ever played with Oden. He will have to adjust to their style of play and they to his.

I expect that Oden might come off the bench. He needs to grow into being an NBA center. I thought that when the Lakers drafted Bynum, the whole organization did a very good job of deflecting expectations and critical comments. They toed the 'he's young and needs time' line with poise. He got valuable minutes, especially against Shaquille on Christmas.

This is going to be an interesting year. As we've inched closer to training camp, I've been re-examining my expectations of the team and here's what I've come up with:
We will not surprise anyone, teams are going to be gunning for us a little more and I'm curious as to how some of the younger fellahs are going to handle it.

Will Sasha play as well as he did after the All-Star break where I thought he was consistently excellent in all facets of his game, that being spot up shooting and feisty defense...NOT lockdown.

How much does Kobe have in his tank. I happen to believe that as an athlete, Kobe could have chosen just about any sport and been among the top ten at it, except maybe baseball (although he could have been Torii Hunter-esque as an outfielder, I don't think he could hit for average or power). But even he is human and must need some extended R and R at some point. I love his grit and how he leads by example. I can just hear him in training camp yelling at guys who sat around all summer. But will Kobe have enough to get us into and win the Finals, or will he run out of gas like I thought he did in '04? I'm not sure, but I hope that Phil only plays him 20 minutes or so a game for the first couple of months. Also, he need not play too much during pre-season. Let the new guys find their roles, let Bynum get some touches in the post, let Odom, Gasol and Bynum find thier spacing and rhythem. I think Phil will do this, but I hope Kobe doesn't get pissed about it.

Finally, I believe this is Phil's final year in his contract...will he be back next season?

I hope so. He will be thegreatest coach of all time...oh yes, he will be the greatest.

rdlee sez

"Though I may not declare Magic to be the best pure point guard ever, he was the greatest player ever regardless of position."

Magic wasn't the best playa ever (MJ), but was probably the 3rd or 4th best PG. Nash is undoubtedly the best PG in NBA history.

George Mikan was absolutely amazing.Posted by: Jon K. | September 24, 2008 at 09:52 AM

Actually, believe it or not he was the "Wilt" of his era.
A man among boys.
And believe it or not he had a lil "Magic" in him

Jon K.....

1) Kareem was the go to guy when Magic came and as he aged willingly gave it up the lead role to Magic Man. Without the Captain, could Magic Man really won all those other titles besides the one in his rookie year? The captain showed he could win even in Milwaukee with Magic Man.

2) There will never be another Magic Man. Never has never will be (never say never it can happen again). That being said Magic had some problems in his career. His complaints about Paul Westhead's offense and the infamous "Tragic Magic". He's one of the greatest Lakers not to mention players of all time but Kareem gets the starting nod.

3) Elgin was great and while he didn't deliver a championship to the Lakers (thanks to Bill Russell). I don't rank a players GM career to be part of their playing career, if that was the case then Jerry West is on top hands down.

4) Mikan you just explained why he's so under ranked so no qualms here lol

5) Chamberlain as a Laker continued his domination despite growing old. He still was amongst the League in rebounding and like Elgin, if it weren't for the Celtic dynasty then he would have won more rings.

6) Shaq we give credit for and while he did do all those nasty things, 3 championships is a no brainer. However with time Kobe could knock him off (greatest Lakers list for sure assuming he stays with the Lakers his career, overall achievement depends on what Kobe does).

7) Kobe is ranked number 7 at the moment. If he delivers the championship he will probably knock off Shaq and ever Chamberlain.

8) West was great but he only won 1 his entire career and never even won an MVP. That being said, he was amongst the best in the NBA at GM after being a great player (Elgin save for one year sucked, and so did Jordan and Kevin McHale as GM).

9) Big Game James has a spot here. He earned it after Game 7 in the last titles in the 80's and had been healthy we could have beaten the Bulls. He's a good analyst on KCAL 9 and on FSN.

10) No qualms about Gail Goodrich here.


Hey, Jon K.

Is there are particular brand of Dit Da Jow that you recommend?

(Sorry, not trying to go off-topic. I promise not to get Jon K. going on another Dit Da Jow rant. :)


I just got 2 tickets to the 2-2-9 Lakers / Knicks game here in NYC!!!

Relating to a topic a few days back, it matters that Kobe is a good guy and a patriot off the court. It matters because, I will root for anybody who puts on a Lakers uniform (post-revelations Malone would be a tough exception), but if I like them I will love them more. I will love watching and rooting for them more. The whole Lakers experience is improved by the players I really like.

That being an important component of Lakers enjoyment for me, I'll rate with affect in mind.

Favorite Lakers:

#1 - Magic - Fun incarnate
#2 - Kobe - Work ethic incarnate
#3 - Kareem - The most serious and academic of Lakers
#4 - Worthy - total package
#5 - Wilt - coming in mostly on an estimation of his playing
#6 - Bynum - coming in on what he WILL do and that he seems like a sweet kid
#7 - West - as much as for what he's done off the court as on it
#8 - Mikan - for dominance, no affective connection
#9 - Shaq - for dominance, despite affect
#10 - Gail Goodrich - Very entertaining player who brought me much joy in me early youth

Honorable mention to Fisher - Great guy, solid hustler of a player.


Regarding George Mikan

I agree that the whole crop of 5s the Lakers have this year could benefit from Mikan's workout regimen. However, it should be noted that the Captain also developed his own regimen. He added martial arts and meditation in order to achieve balance between mind and body. Being a practicing Muslim (he was formerly Lew Alcindor before changing his name, quite controversial in his day) he also doesn't imbibe alcohol, so he's a big proponent of healthy living. After hearing Bynum give interviews about changing his eating habits, I think it is quite safe to say that the Captain has had an extremely positive effect on him. I'm not sure if Kareem has any interest in working with any player other than Bynum. He is famous for being demanding and unapologetic and may want to focus on the player he deems most able to live up to his expectations.

All-Time Laker greats

1. Magic for all the obvious reasons but also what he meant to the NBA and city of Los Angeles. Magic and Bird with the help of Jordan later on made the NBA what it is today.

2. West because of being the logo(that is a sick honor onto itself considering how many players have played in the NBA) and because he was the first great LA Laker and also the greatest GM ever.

3. Kobe because by the time everything is said and done there will have never been a more polarizing figure in league history and he will own every Lakers record for scoring.

4. Kareem may have had some great years in Milwaukie but he played 14 years in LA and one 5 championships with 3 MVP awards while a Laker.

5. Shaq 3 NBA titles and the first great Laker after Magic retired but his image has been tarnished lately with his Kobe disses and marriage issues.

6. Baylor and West were the best 1-2 combination in the league during the 60's a pre Jordan-Pippen combo.

7. Wilt only played 5 years in LA and was on the downside of his career. His best years were in Philly.

8. Mikan was the first dominant center and superstar of the NBA but he played in Minneapolis and in the 50's so this lowers his ranking.

9. Worthy was the best third wheel other than Mchale on any team at any time ever.

10. Goodrich was also a great third option on that great 71-72 Lakers team but didn't have enough great seasons as a Laker to be ranked higher.

Jamie Sweet, I'm with you about Vlad, have you seen some of his interviews? He has these big brown eyes and suddenly they just kinda glaze over and he looks like someone who just woke up, I love your ADD theory, I think you are onto something sir.


Great job on getting that interview. It's interesting to hear what Oden had to say regarding Bynum. I think Bynum-Oden and Lakers-Blazers will develop in to a great rivalry over the years, more so than the current Laker-Celtics (Cs only have a few more good years until they're old and Blazers are so young). The Blazers have some serious talent with Aldridge and Roy to go along with Oden. I'm gonna have to get tickets to that first game just to see it all.


Thanks for the link on Bynum. Can't wait to see that skyhook, the crowd will go nuts whenever he decides to pull it out, just hope he doesn't throw up an airball haha. It's also pretty funny to hear that he called Kareem Wilt the first time they met. The Lakers future pretty much hinges on Bynum so its always good to hear what he has to say.

Lamar = Laker for Life



Busy lately in assisting clients who are having problems with their financial portfolios but need a time out to comment on your funny line:
HELL = being forced to watch a FUNS game
PURGATORY = Watching FUNS games forever

~~ Watching Shaq sucks in the Suns' lineup is hell while being forced to watch Funs once in a while or upon insistence of Butler is purgatory. lol!

Will be back when the games are in progress. See ya,

I don't know about funniest Laker this season but I'm pretty sure about funniest clown/troll here. I've got to go with BUTLER. Just look, guy posts without remote posibility of replies, like talking to himself, esp. with the news regarding FUNS bench warmers. How delusional is he, I mean to spend entire time here, on Lakers Blog. Mamba24, I think it's time to start new bandwagon, you can come up with name.


If I'm correct, this is going to be Phil's 1-st year of two year extension he signed last season. And I agree with you - he is a great coach..

Greg Oden and LeBron James reminds me of the Neanderthal Man. Kinda fugly.

AB has a baby face. Like the cute kid on the McDonalds commercial who cried when her sister was conning her on the fries count. Kobe of course has the refined looks and cosmopolitan aura. Sasha is The Face. Pau is the European handsome.

Go Lakers!!!

"Nash is undoubtedly the best PG in NBA history."

O.K., this was funny the first couple times you posted it, but the jokes run it's course, kid, give it a rest. Nash is not even the best PG to never win a title (Stockton), and doesn't even crack the top 10 all time. If she ever wins one, we'll move her up a few notches, MAYBE. Till then, leave the GOAT discussions to your betters.

Amazing_Happens -

You're right. I'd never heard of this either and I tried doing a little research and came up with precious little to report.

I did find that Andrew's dad, Ernest Bynum, played for Long Island University and is 4th all time in career blocks.

However, I couldn't find anything about his dad playing for the Celtics. When you type in "Bynum" into the search engine, only Andrew and Will Bynum show up. So I don't know, maybe he was invited to training camp or something. Interesting. Thanks for bringing that up.

Anyone else have more insight? AK, BK?

Thanks Elle, good to know LAL fan.


KL 'sending shaq packing (at minimum, not stopping shaq from packing) basically took away 4 years of opportunities to shine in the big stage.'

KL - The lakers dynasty was over and there was no guarantee they could win anymore.They'd lost twice due to a combination of shaqs lack of fitness,the poor relationship,and a thinning bench.None of those things looked to be getting better especially if the contract demands from both players were to be large.

I can see how kobe was a punk but due to the nature of the arguments,what I know about both personalities, and some of the documented evidence by the likes of Lazenby...I look at it as a case of it taking two to tango.There was a long history and so much go on between these two that i find it impossible to really judge but it appears (and is documented) that it was largely a two way street.

You also need to keep in mind how much things have changed since you first started posting your colourful and controversial comments on this blog.First of all Shaq has lost some credibiility,second the lakers are now suddenly in a better position than probably anyone in the league moving forward as opposed to struggling.You have to ask yourself - was trading Shaq worth it? what sort of position would they be in now if he was here on big money?

Kobe's comments last summer (as misguided as they might have been) did show us two things

1) That he and the lakers planned to be a good team pretty quickly.Kobe didnt choose to be the best guy on a bad team he chose to win differently - big difference...and now you can't even argue they made the wrong decision becasue of the success...

2) we now have evidence that Kobe Bryant does NOT make the decisions within the organisation...Buss is in control of his baby.the idea of Kobe being behind such a big decision as to oust Shaq in almost any way at all looks less likely.

Move with the times KL

Jon K. I couldnt agree with you more about Magic, except I even feel more strongly about Magic. Magic Johnson was the Best Basketball Player of all time,and it isn't even that close.

Nash is undoubtedly the best PG in NBA history."
O.K., this was funny the first couple times you posted it, but the jokes run it's course,
kid, give it a rest. Nash is not even the best PG to never win a title Posted by: Badfinger
| September 24, 2008 at 11:47 AM



Meanwhile across town, Sasha Vujacic was holding court with teammates at The Apple Seed, the teams new favorite hangout ever since his tragic misinterpretation of ‘bottle service’ ruined their stay at The Mint. “Masheen is ready for more responsebeeleety. Masheen get results.” Close knit Cali natives Luke Walton, Jordan Farmar and Trevor Ariza all laughed at Vujacic’s bluster. Over time he’d absorbed Kobe’s unshakable confidence and when mixed with his ever present effervescence, it made for quite lively conversation. “I’m seereous.” he continued. “I make teammates bettar. Masheen step game up, Kobe become MVP. No coeenceedence.” “Pau and Lahmar go like this” he said as his hand and forearm moved in an exaggerated wave. “Masheen go like this.” He balled his hand into a fist and flexed the muscles of his forearm. “Steadee. Like rhock.” He scanned their expressions for approval. “Yes” Farmar nodded, “A rock. Like a statue.” Mouth agape, he giggled while swiveling his neck in a mock defensive stance, mimicking Sasha’s attempts to guard an isolated Ray Allen.

Furrowing his brow, lips pursed in denial, Vujacic remained undeterred. “Bah! Point is, things have changed. Last yeer, everyone say we suck. We surprise them. Now come expectations, big target on chest. We don’t get back to Final, we suck again. Masheen is ready for challenge. Are yoo?” He scanned their expressions again. Their smiles shrunk into solemn contemplation. He’d made his point. They watched as he dug deep into his Louis Vuitton messenger bag and produced a handful of buttons. “Here. For all of yoo.” In unison, they turned the buttons over to see SASHA 4 TEEM CAPTAIN in purple and gold font. In unison, they raised their eyebrows and stared at him incredulously. “Is how it works, no? Deemochracy?” Walton’s chuckle broke the silence. “Sorry homie. not on this team.” “We shall see.” Vujacic replied. “Masheen have three point plan. With responseebeeleety come money, with money come beaches.” “Beaches?” Ariza inquired. “Yes, yes.” he motioned around the room to the various push up bras, halter tops, high heels and mini skirts. “Beaches. Is what this is all about, yes?” They all laughed and ordered another round of drinks.

what I just posted was made up by the guy from SLAM, btw... so don't get mad at Sasha...

From hoopsworld:

Bynum Falls on Knee, Gets Up Sans Problems
Posted: 9/24/2008 7:54:00 AM
Source: Orange County Register

Andrew Bynum lay on the floor, his feet having been knocked out from beneath him on an alley oop pass during a recent pick up game.

He got up immediately. No hesitation. No second thoughts. More importantly, no pain.

Bynum said his surgically-repaired knee is so healthy, he didn’t even blink when he landed hard on the hardwood.

“I was fine. I got right back up,” Bynum said Tuesday after a 45-minute question-&-answer session with Register readers. “No pain, no swelling.”

That’s great news for Lakers fans, who are counting on Bynum’s return to get the Lakers back to the NBA Finals. Bynum said he is eager for training camp to begin Monday, when he can play with the rest of the team.

“I just want to get back on the court and play with the fellas,” he said.

Here's the tiny for the OCR article:

Is it October yet?

Go Bynum!
Go Kobe!!


my friend, my foe, my fiend...

"The lakers dynasty was over and there was no guarantee they could win anymore.They'd lost twice due to a combination of shaqs lack of fitness,the poor relationship,and a thinning bench.None of those things looked to be getting better especially if the contract demands from both players were to be large."

i disagree. this is what [bleep] apologist would like to have you believe, but that's simply not true. anyhow, there are no such thing as a "guarantee" in this world besides death and taxes. i think this issue of shaq's "fitness" is blown out of proportion as [bleep]'s "selfishness" issues. making the finals 4 of 5 years is not the end of the dynasty.

my view on what broke the dynasty is [bleep]'s premature struggle with shaq for the #1 spot. it clearly belonged to shaq and [bleep] should have continued to defer (like tony parker to duncan) until it was the right time and right circumstances to take charge. 2004 was a prime example why we lost because [bleep] was determined to be the #1 guy forgetting that b-ball is a team sport and there are 3 hall of fame guys to pass the ball.

"First of all Shaq has lost some credibiility,second the lakers are now suddenly in a better position than probably anyone in the league moving forward as opposed to struggling."

agreed on both points. i admitted that shaq's days were over after 2006. i've also given credit to the laker's success in 2008 due, in large part, to [bleep]'s efforts to lead and be a good teammate. my only question is why it took so long to be a leader and good teammate? [bleep]'s only been in the league for a decade.

full disclosure: the shaq lover in me would like to see the guy leave the game gracefully which has not happened. i'm disappointed.

"That he and the lakers planned to be a good team pretty quickly.Kobe didnt choose to be the best guy on a bad team he chose to win differently - big difference...and now you can't even argue they made the wrong decision becasue of the success..."

i adamently disagree. [bleep] precisely wanted to be the best guy on the team, any team, when he basically pushed shaq out. this shizzle happens all the time.

btw, "success" is relative. i view had [bleep] played his cards right, like Dwade, [bleep] would have won a few more titles AND be voted Finals MVP multiple times as shaq transitions to the #2 guy. nobody has given me a good explanation why shaq wanted $30M extension. all i get is shaq is greedy. aren't all NBA playah's greedy? has it occured to you, or anybody, that asking for so much money was way for Laker management to bring in a Wade or Lebron in lieu of Kobe and continuing the championship runs? that's my theory.

"we now have evidence that Kobe Bryant does NOT make the decisions within the organisation...Buss is in control of his baby.the idea of Kobe being behind such a big decision as to oust Shaq in almost any way at all looks less likely."

i think you and i know [bleep] or any nba player does not make direct decision, however (underscore "however"), stars on the team do have influence. had [bleep] said "keep shaq or else", management would have folded like Lehman Brothers (like shaq in front of a stack of pancakes, like [bleep] in front of a diamond shop, but i digress). had [bleep] approached shaq and asked him to stay, we'd be talking about [bleep] challenging jordan's legacy.

"Move with the times KL"

the only constant in life is change.

btw, are you the one who lives in Ohio? if yes, Buck-blackeye's SUCK!!! Trojan's rule.

nice chat.

Morning all...Portland roles the dice on Livingston.....The Bobcats put a little pressure on the Rockets with Landry.....
9mill for 3 years.....It doesnt sound to bad...............

LAL fans ez:

"I'm pretty sure about funniest clown/troll here. I've got to go with BUTLER."


Well ok, now that we're all in agreement that Nash is the best PG in NBA history, we can get on to other subjects.

Sounds like Matt Barnes will start for the SUNS and Hill will come off the bench, much like manu does. The move makes the SUNS' starting 5 younger, adds a 3-pt shooter to help spread the floor, and strengthens the bench.

"had [bleep] approached shaq and asked him to stay, we'd be talking about [bleep] challenging jordan's legacy."

Nope had Shaq stayed Kobe's legacy would have never touched Jordan's since he wouldn't have been the "leader". Shaq is no Tim Duncan (Duncanwill have more career achievements when all is said and done) and wouldn't want to surrender the leadership title and even at the beginning of 2007-2008 still wanted touches more than 10 shots attempts per game, only scaling off once he arrived in Phoenix.

"nobody has given me a good explanation why shaq wanted $30M extension."

Simple, NBA players want money, Lebron wants to be a billionaire and Shaq during his early 30's was still the top center in the NBA. $30 million is PER YEAR and if Buss did grant him that then the Lakers wouldn't be able to pay any other of their players unless they signed for the mid level exception (Kobe, Lebron, Wade would NEVER play for 5 million per year given their talent). So that makes 30 million and still have to sign at least 12 players so assuming there are 5 other players playing for mid level exception thats $25 million so thats only 6 players and the Salary cap is nearly touched. So sign a bunch of mediocre players playing for less than a million (which super stars except for 40 year old men would sign for less than a million??). Shaq wants to get paid, Kobe wants to get paid. Pippen left the Bulls in 1998 because he was underpaid so much. NBA players WANT money as much as they want championships, especially All Stars, that's why Arenas got an $111 million paycheck.

And even if we kept BOTH Kobe and Shaq and Shaq did that thing in Miami and only got paid $20 Million, combine Kobe's current paycheck of $19 million thats already almost $40 million. Using the salary cap thats only $19 million to pay for 10 PLAYERS. Veterans don't want to be paid 1 million they want to be paid Luke/Radman/Sasha kind of money (5 million at least).

"3 hall of fame guys to pass the ball."

1 Hall of Famer was just letting Chauncey Billups torch him for 22.8 ppg on 50.2% shooting before Kobe in Game 5 defended Billups, the other Hall of Famer could only play on one healthy knee thanks to a collison by Derek Fisher in Game 6 of the WCF with Minnesota. And the other Hall of Famer had only 2 great games and was held by Ben Wallace the other 3 games. Before you can say "oh that is what a apologist would say) I know that Kobe had a bad series against Tayshaun Prince so he also did bad as well. Fact is though, can't blame him 100%.

"my view on what broke the dynasty is [bleep]'s premature struggle with shaq for the #1 spot. it clearly belonged to shaq"

Like you said that's your view and while I respect that here's my view.

Shaq was the leader of the years until 2002-2003. That season Shaq was CLEARLY out of shape and had the Lakers still allowed him to lead and get him in shape gradually that the Lakers would either get a number 7 or 8 seed or miss the playoffs entirely. Kobe took over and put a Jordan season numbers (30 ppg 7 rpg 6 apg 2.2 stls per game) and in that time Shaq was the number 2 and actually was ok in being that and it paid off getting the Lakers to a 50-32 season and only an Horry miss in Game 5 prevented another Laker title. That being said, the next season both had good reasons to be number one (Kobe coming off a great season, Shaq still being the top center in the NBA) and simply both squabbled along with Gary Payton.

"They'd lost twice due to a combination of shaqs lack of fitness,the poor relationship,and a thinning bench"

The bench for the Lakers haven't been this good since actually the 2000-2001 season. Shaq's lack of fitness was during the regular season, during the playoffs is when Shaq began to be in shape.

"i disagree. this is what [bleep] apologist would like to have you believe, but that's simply not true."

So anyone who disagrees with you is a Kobe apologist? That is just as bad as saying the Salary Cap can be violated just because KL wants it (at least that was much easier to explain than the nonsense that Kwa-may Brown is the next coming of Charles Oakley by Mike T).

Here's a fact: money is a BIG factor in running how a franchise works, not just because of "how great a player is".

"Move with the times KL"

Kiwi means: Get over it. Maybe the stuff now bores you and is understandable. Shaq is gone, Kobe is still here. Picking at old wounds is almost as annoying as Let's Go C's! was. At least Butler is somewhat amusing (and can be quite a bit more agreeable) with Nash is the greatest point guard eva.). If you still don't like Kobe go ahead. If you still want to say how great Shaq was and how much you miss him then well more power to you. Just get over it KL. In my opinion, this talk about Shaq and this and that is just as bad as Kobe whinning last summer.


KL...okay good job...apologies to all those fed up with long posts on this topic.

It was clear Shaq was on the decline.As you yourself say 2006 was the end of his run...and it was becoming evident in 2004 that he didnt have all that much left.

It's a shrewd enough business/basketball decision in any circumstances not to tie him up again for years even if things were going well....but these guys were totally fed up with one another.Yes winning is everything but both of them believed they could win anyway.Who needs the grief? They'd co-existed for years...the fella's were over it,the coaches were over it and the fans were over it.

No doubt Kobe put Shaqs nose out of joint early on but heres another way to look at it...They won three titles.How much did Shaq really have to be upset about? How many guys are there in the league trying to make their names? if that were you or me wouldnt we just say 'hey the guys pretty good,he takes it seriously,hes motivated,we're winning,he's young, I could do ALOT worse I'm going to try to work with this?

I can tell you I spend my entire working life managing and dealing with difficult peoples egos...theres such a thing as leading from the back.

Would magic Johnson or Tim Duncan have gone about it differently? Shaqs attitude was clearly F you and theres just other ways to handle things.Kobe was a kid.Shaq should have focused on the good points and not been so precious - had he done that he'd be looking good now and we'd be a title or two better off.Who really cares 'whos' team it is - its childish but he was dealing with a child.He sunk to that level.

And I'm not sure you can call Kobe a bad teamate anyway - he did adjust his game enough so that they won.You dont have that kind of success if a player that influential isn't doing something right or isnt basically on board even if theres day to day frustrations.

You're theory on Shaq asking for money is basically saying that Shaq engineered a him or me situation as well and ended up losing...whos fault is that?...maybe you think they should have kept him and other people disagreed.Its the same principle.I guess you say they could have won right away with Shaq and another player but thats debatable and Kobe didnt make that trade...and if Shaq was so good then why couldnt they get more for him? (side issue really)

Why the hate on Kobe for letting shaq go when you are saying that Shaq all but deliberately engineered a situation where a choice had to be made between the two of them?

I'll give you that the implication that Kobe would not return was there....but I dont think this was really news or anything that had to be voiced.It was clear to everyone that these guys were just over it.

A shot to win lets say TWO more rings with such an unstable dynamic or reload after a pretty good run,have a few mediocre seasons then field a team that can contend for the next decade as opposed to being stuck with an awful contract or probably having to make a horrible trade about now? Surely at this point if its laker success rather than Shaq success your interested in then you've got to see theres at least an argument for it.

History will now remember this as a good move.Rightly or wrongly its all that matters.If you would have prefered to stick at it with shaq then fine...but I'd disagree....and there was no evidence that Shaq would have gracefully stepped aside to watch Kobe get more money,and more credit...sometimes the dynamics in life are just wrong.It was a dead horse...even if they had managed another run.

And I'm sorry you've got to watch Shaq go out this way.If he was one of your favourite players then its a tough thing to watch.I assure you I take no pleasure in it either... but he really has nobody to blame but himself.Regardless of who gets up his nose he could have carried himself with ALOT more class.

Anyway KL nice job - you add something to the blog and I hope your parole meetings go smoothly.

ps Im not from Ohio...I'm from New Zealand but reside in the UK so I guess you can argue I'm crazy if you want to...I dont have a clue about the blackeyes or the trojans but I'll take your word for it. (against my better judgement i should add)


welcome to this blog.

"I was wondering if the way Kobe conducted himself on and as importantly off the court in Beijing helped curve your opinion of his charecter at all."

the simple answer is "yes", but the kobe hater in me says, it's a front, but at least the guy's maturing enough not to draw too much negative attention to himself.

generallly, i was happy the way Team USA conducted itself in the world stage. i've been feeling the last couple of world championships/olympics Team USA didn't put its best foot forward on and off the court.

"I've been a Kobe fan since the McDonald's All American game, but his off the court antics made it difficult to defend him sometimes. But when I saw the way he acted at the Olympics, it really showed me a lot about his maturation process and how far he has come. Just wondering if you felt the same at all. "

i haven't always been a kobe hater. as a matter of fact, i was a kobe fan up until 2003 when he started acking like a jerk and getting too arrogant. last year was a good year for the lakers and kobe. let's see what happens this year.

step forward or step back?

New Zealand?

E=MC2! it all makes sense.

I suppose I can be KL_Yank

Sasha'll entertain us this season with his good play. But I don't know if he's funny lol.

Hopefully he's working on a back to the basket game (6'7) and defense.

KL Yank

'E=MC2! it all makes sense'

So the Death stars finally blown and you're coming back to join the side of the Jedi again?

I'll start preparing the bonfire...theres plenty of Ewoks round here too.

Context is a beautiful thing KL

"Well ok, now that we're all in agreement that Nash is the best PG in NBA history..."

Just say no!

P.S., Butler: Since you didn't answer my first riddle, here's another for ya!

What do Steve Nash and the collar of a shirt that was washed in Wisk Laundry Detergent have in common?

Gary Allgood,

I have to agree with you. I, personally, think Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain were the best players of all time. There games are very different, but I'd think I'd chose Magic in his prime over anyone else.

I do not bite into this "Michael Jordan was the Greatest player of all-time" mindset. Not at all.


Oden looks like he's gonna retire next year. Looks like!

utz sez:

"What do Steve Nash and the collar of a shirt that was washed in Wisk Laundry Detergent have in common?"

Nash has twice as many MVPs as kobey, and the collar has twice as many titles as kobey w/o Shack?

Magic Johnson is clearly the best point guard of all time, followed by John Stockton, Jerry West and Bob Cousy. Steve Nash MIGHT be in the top ten, but that is debatable.


"Context is a beautiful thing KL"

speaking of context, some other name which may apply:


"Just get over it KL. In my opinion, this talk about Shaq and this and that is just as bad as Kobe whinning last summer."

i really stopped talking about shaq. Kiwi brought it up. aren't you they guy who told me to stop talking about kobe? i got an idea, why don't you tell me what i should talk about?

joking aside, i do like our chats, however belligerent on your part.....haha

it's a good thing, "KLBeast" is on parole, otherwise i'll rip you a new....


Dont be so hard on yourself KL...Im starting to detect that a low self esteem is behind all this criminal behaviour.You'll never learn to love Kobe unless you learn to love yourself first.Shaq was a bad role model but its better now.

go easy too Mr Blitz KL is undergoing corrective therapy and doing pretty well

Right much to all of your relief I'm out till the season starts.Ive been doing way too much of this lakerblogging...cold turkey now. KL promise to behave during my absence
take care all

I suppose I can be KL_Yank

Posted by: KL | September 24, 2008 at 02:16 PM

You are KL Yak.
Yak yak yak yak yakitty yak. lol

"You are KL Yak. Yak yak yak yak yakitty yak. lol"

Jormea? is that you?

i think lakergurl has a crush on KL. LOL. good to hear from you, now bugger of (kidding).

Dr. Phil Kiwi: I'm really 49-years-old, 4'9", live with my mom and never played ball in my life....oh, my idea of a date is watching old (and new) episodes of "90210" you got me.


We probably all concede that the Big O, (not that big size wise nowadays, wow the players have grown),....I never saw much of his game, but since the Logo, had so much respect for him, I grant him the greatness....

...but don't you still get chills in your spine, and your haiir tingling, when you think of Magic shouting "Let's go!!!..." as he often did once the team got the ball and into his!!!

"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends....." (Emerson, Lake & Palmer.....Carl Palmer could drum so fast it wasn't like a thump thump thump, it was continuous stream of drum sound, check him out on youtube)

best point guard ever??? I agree to disagree about Nash, I'll put in same category as Cousy (rings), & Stockton (assists), but for some unknown reason, the Magic Man gave us all of that and more...he was more than just THE point guard, he was whatever was needed whenever needed....didn't he lead or almost lead the league in FT%, and eventually became a pretty good 3 point shooter (wow, remember his All-Star Game comeback, that last shot, I know it was playtime, but to hit was...purely "magic"....would have been the perfect end to a career, but we needed him for the 92 Olympics.

Back to blog topic: Bynum has the edge due to years of exposure to NBA life, tutelage from Kareem, success on the court leading to confidence, exemplified in his interview skills (confident and clear, not like that other guy, who was confident until it was time to shoot freethrows, then it was Jello time), confidence in him from his teammates...I can't wait till we have those fastbreaks, comin down the court.... 6'9" Sun (WTB-with the ball, in the middle); 7 'plus Gasol; 6'10 Odom, 6'6" KB24, and trailing @ 7' with great hands, and ability to elevate, grab a lob or a rebound and dunk it in without fouling... Andrew Bynum....

...just a few more days, and I personally do not believe in anything the OC Register puts in print, until I verify it. OC people, sometimes believe that OC is the center of the universe, not just the solar system, I've met many people who had never been to Los Angeles, to the westside, to Santa Monica, to the I said, we should get a coupla big rigs and move the Clippers to the Honda Center (formerly Arrowhead Pond), their true attendance will double, but then Sterling wouldn't be able to have those wet dreams about owning all of Los Angeles, although he does own quite a bit of it (see Wilshire Blvd. corridor....I said Wilshire, NOT Whittier Blvd!!!!!).....

If you are going to rate them based on their performance against their peers, Mikan has to be number one. I think you could argue Magic vs West for number two and three, 4-7 could be swapped around. Had Wilt's teams won more titles, he might be higher, but they only won once, and when you combine that with the relatively short amount of time he was with the team, he shouldn't be higher than 8.

1. Mikan
2. Magic
3. West
4. Kobe
5. Kareem
6. Baylor
7. Shaq
8. WIlt
9. Worthy
10. Goodrich

Finally, I believe this is Phil's final year in his contract...will he be back next season?

I hope so. He will be thegreatest coach of all time...oh yes, he will be the greatest.

Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 24, 2008 at 10:05 AM

I sincerely hope not.

"Nash has twice as many MVPs as kobey, and the collar has twice as many titles as kobey w/o Shack?"


First off I am new to this blog so I will introduce myself. I post a loy on yahoo answers and just found this lovely Lakers forum. Its great to see. I am 29 stuck in HELL, western Mass. I have been a life long Lakers fan in mass since the fist time I seen Magic and Bird play at the Garden. Unfortunately I am stuck going to see the celtics everytime I want to see a game. I go to the Lakers/celtics game everyyear I can since I was old enough to remember. I sport the Purple and gold in the sea of green and take on the hosile drunk A## holes in Boston. I loved the last few seaon, prior to this one, when Boston sucked with the over rated actor, Pierce. I loved the sufering and how their fans always ran their mouths about my Magic jersey and talked down at Kobe and the sqaud. Even at Celtics/Phil playoff games in 02 I think, the last time Boston made the post season, lol, the Lakers were on top and all i heard was beat LA chants. Like i told everyone boston wouldnt make it far enough to see LA that year or as I can say now this next coming year boston will be home watching LA beat a new eastern conf team. Its to bad i want Bynum to come back and for him and the rest of the team to have some revenge on the Cs in the post season. Boston is a one and done. I think LJ was one player away from beating the Cs and he got some help.

That said when Shaq left LA I felt it was the wrong move and Mitch needed to be dragged down from the office and beaten. Then Shaq one with Miami and I said we got robbed in the trade. We gave up the best player at the time for nothing. If West was still GM he would have gotten more and maybe even Wade in the deal. We sent the most dominate player in 30 C in the game over from very little at the time. Wade was going on his second year and he should had been demanded in the trade or the could had looked else where. So many teams at the time would had love to have SHaq.

Looking back it was the best move. We couldnt afford to bring Shaq on for the money he wanted. If we had today we would be screwed. We would br paying far too much for far too little and lost Kobe in the mix. Shaq was on a down swing and should had bowed down gracefully and agreed to stay on for less. He had one or 2 good years left but was not the future we needed. He could have stayed and not demended to bankrupt the team to sign 2 player, him and Kobe, Shaq had plenty of money and would had been a great 2nd option but he was injure prone & we wouldnt had even made the playoff with him playing 30 games a year and no Kobe. He could had help set up the future, maybe Bynum or whoever and gone out with the next Lakers statue out front.

He choose the money and greed over the team legacy and the statue. With that set Buss had no choice but to trade him since there was no way to pay him 30 mil. Its a business and he was not worth it with the injuries for the future. They seen it and I didnt, at the time.

We are much better without having kept Shaq then we would have been if we choose Shaq. We have a fresh young talented team. Kobe and Fisher are both becoming great veteran team leaders wih the stars of the future on the coattails. I just hope Kobe realizes when the time comes that he has all the money he needs and owes the team for his sucess. At that point he needs to make the right move and take what we can afford to gove him so we can put together a quality team for today and tomorrow. If he does that and REALLY want to win and be rememebr as one of the greats he will be. If greed win thats too bad for Kobe. I know he can play with LA another 10 years and provide quality mins and with his maturity he will be a great devoloper/Player coach. He has the work ethics and I know Farmar and many of the young guys have stated. Kobe loves to challenge and teach the new guys with unmatched passion and desire.

I think Kobe gets a bad rep from the Media and his passion is painted as arrogance. Ihope his desire overcome his greed when the time comes for him to be # 2 then 3 then 4 on the pay role. If it does and he retieres a Laker after 10 more years and 4 rings,maybe 5 with this talent if BYnum can stay healthy and Gasol and Kobe choose rings over money, then Kobe will be remembered as the greatest laker of all time and his misguided selfish looking youthful days will be forgotten. He will sit next to Magic as a life long laker and could stay on as part owner and ast coach, like Kareem. Kobe's legacy rests in his own hands and I hope he does the right thing and it ends with a statue next to Magic. He has the ability he just needs to overcome the greed of the NBA and the world, the dark side and be a team player not only on the court but in the contract negotations as well. How many houses can an extra 10 mil buy you and is it worth giving up a chance a a few more rings and a legacy that will live long after he is gone? Shaq answer wrong when he demanded 30 mil. If anyone knows Kobe I hope he realizes where Shaq went astray and learns from the mistakes of the past players. The Lakers are the most commited organiztion in ythe NBA through out every era the put together a quality team and will provide for him after he retire if he chooses the right way.

I also hope to see Fisher as a ast coach on the lakers bench when he chooses to leave to team.

Have a great day and GO LAKERS



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