AK/BK if Lamar does well this season enough to ensure his stay in LA, we both know that he will take a paycut regardless in order to stay or with any other team. The question is since Lamar has been here for more than 3 years without being waived or changing teams (assuming we don't trade him) will he have become a Bird Free Agent? As much as he could be an asset to LA for years to come (assuming he doesn't mothball the season) I dunno if we should use the Mid-Level Exception on him if we can get a very good free agent to sign better than him to come to LA. If we can still use the Mid-Level Exception and get him at a reasonable price all the better. And one other question, if Ronny wasn't a restricted free agent (instead an unrestricted free agent), would he have qualified as a bird free agent still? He only played 2 full seasons with us, I don't know if by playing only 1/2 of the season back in 2005-2006 would have counted to him being a Bird Free Agent if it takes 3 years to become a Bird Free Agent.
Although you will probably be criticized for over emphasizing Drew, we all know that he is the key to the Lakers future championships. Thanks for three AB17 threads in a row. A Bigger and Better Bynum will launch the Era of the Beast.
You are hereby selected as starting shooting guard on my All-GHF Lakers blog team. Glad to see another diehard optimist not afraid to call it like he sees it. And we see championships!!! Andrew Bynum is going to astonish Lakers fans this year. If the rest of the NBA thought the Lakers had a perfect storm of fortune last season to make it within two wins of winning the championship, they ain’t seen nothing yet. The Lakers Big 3 of Kobe, Drew, and Pau are going to set records for the number of championships won before they are through.
As to the rest of the All-GHF team, Jon K will likely get the nod at power forward and team enforcer and trainer. I’ve even been considering reaching across the aisle (like Obama and McCain, lol) and adding former GHE blogger ex as a defender due to his positive comments since the middle of last season. Bynumite will make the team just based on his blog handle.
Mamba24 is a strong candidate for coach, as well as AK and BK if you can really believe that. Long Time is the team’s Lamar Odom (sorry, dangles) – unappreciated as a starter due to his low ball attitude on salaries – and more likely to succeed as 6th man, where he can chime in on any brief conversation and turn it into an endless battle. Of course, right along with him will be humanomaly and hobbitmage, who also know how to string together marathon posts.
Xodus might well be the team reporter but he is going to have to come out of the closet (sorry, Mrs. Xodus) and stop being afraid to believe all of those parades he keeps envisioning when he thinks of this team. Laker85 and JSNV are competing for rate rookie spots on the roster. Even though he sometimes has been an old fart since the Celtics beat us, Edwin will probably honored with a lifetime achievement award. JustaLakersFan is another star defensive blogger.
Same with Faith who worries too much but still has faith, lol. Lakers_sth may be asked to pay for his spot on the team – probably by donating more tickets to Psyched Laker Girl or Charles. JJ may get a shot at comeback blogger of the year and being the original marathon blogger. Hey, you know what, there may not be anybody left to play for the All-GHE team other than Mike T. and ringer trolls such as KL, GWB, or BUTtLickER. The Lakers Blog has gone GHF.
Yup the Lakers would have paid alot more to get Kevin Garnett. KG's contract was way more than both Lamar's and Bynum's combined salaries (KG"s contract: $23,750,000). Odom's and Bynum's contract were combined for $15,420,596. The Lakers would still be owing $4,755,904 had they traded for KG and only gave up Odom and Bynum. Derek couldn't be used in the trade because he signed that year and he couldn't be traded. Neither could Luke's since he resigned with the Lakers and thus for the same reasons. Cook's contract was not enough to fill the gap (only $3,500,000). The only other pieces were Kwa-may Brown ($9,075,000) and Radman ($5,632,200). Giving up Kwa-may Brown while beneficial to the Lakers in term of getting rid of a soft scrub, would have let the Lakers extremely thin at Center postion (only Chris Mihm, YIKES! and Ronny as a serviceable backup). And the Timberwolves didn't want Radman's contract since they would have to pay him for an additional 5 years. Or we would have been forced to give up 3 rookies at least. That would have left the Lakers almost talenltess beyond Kobe and KG and maybe Derek. Some team huh?
The same thing about Lebron, there is no way that Lebron would have signed only for 5.6 million per year (the Mid-Level exception). In fact Lebron wants to be the First Billionaire Athlete even more than Michael Jordan (who else is trying to tug at MJ's cape ;P) so there really is no reason why Lebron would sign for 5.6 even if it means playing for Kobe or whoever team unless they have a big cap and has young talent waiting for him. He looks to sign for the Nets since the already made moves to be under the cap for 2010 when Lebron is a free agent plus they'll move to Brooklyn (he loved New York, his favorite city and LA was number 4. Akron was number 5 Cleveland wasn't even in his top 5 LOL!). The Nets though will suffer through 2 years of lottery bound years probably as well.
And the Shaq trade was a good thing in the long run. Had we kept Shaq instead of Kobe, not only would his skill have diminished by now but because he wanted over 20 million usd, the Lakers would be well over the cap unless everybody signed for the bare minimum (Phil Jackson even said that in his last book). I give Shaq is due but he already blemished himself atm (not his legacy) by not only dissing Miami (yes Miami hates him) but also stalking a female rapper.
Nice rebuttal Xodus. And I saw yours just now AK, great job you two.
Lol! Thanks a bunch, you do a great job too! Thanks for putting me as a SG, that was my best position when I played Bball, never really liked playing point guard though I was kinda good at it as well. :)
Charles,
Thanks a bunch too. A few more pounds of strength for Pau and an improvement to his jumper would certainly help for us. Because his position is now Power Forward he can use more of his offensive weapons including starting from high post and mid range area and driving and doing hook shots which I felt were his best % shots aside from dunk. With the way the Triangle Offense is, I hope to see more short jumpers when he's wide open but if a center was blocking the front of the rim. I know he can make those with his talent. In a way he kind of reminds me of Bill Cartwright during the 1st Bulls 3peat. Very nice inside scorer with a solid mid and short range jumper. Ironically he was drafted the same position as Pau (Cartwright in 1979 draft #3 overall and Pau #3 overall in 2001 draft). Plus Cartwright was an under rated defender and during the battles with the Knicks managed to hold his own against Patrick Ewing, similarly to Pau and him holding KG to 44.4% in the Finals. This also is kinda funny since Cartwright was traded for Charles Oakley, whom Mike T. compared his boy Kwa-may Brown to (Though Charles Oakley was the real deal in rebounding and defending, something Kwa-may Brown was never really good at LOL!). Overall, I would rate Pau to be a much better version of Cartwright.
Edwin,
thanks for your compliments as well. If I didn't have a job already I would love to try defensive coordinator in football and maybe an assistant coach in basketball. I wouldn't try to be a head coach in either football or basketball hehe.
I kinda disagree with Wilt and Kareem, Bill Russell was far better than Kareem and ranked near Wilt (I know he's a Celtic but I give the legends their credits). Here's how I rank the Centers:
Top 5 all time centers
1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Bill Russell
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon
5) Moses Malone.
That’s the first thing that popped into my mind as I listened to Andrew Bynum’s interview. He made me feel like a proud parent and lottery winner at the same time. This is a young man who really has it all together – a great person as well as great player. He was articulate, witty, passionate, focused, and confident. It was great to hear him talking about working with Cap to be even better on defense and to hear that he is faster and stronger and in better shape than last year and intends to turn his game “up a couple of notches.” I also loved how confident he was that he and Pau were going to be a force not only on offense but also on defense.
Drew reminds me greatly of another young high school baller that the Lakers stole in the NBA draft 12 years ago and who is the team’s leader and league’s most valuable player last year. Andrew Bynum truly shares Kobe Bryant’s work ethic, competitive fire, and desire to win. Talk about good fortune. How many times in NBA history has a team been fortunate enough to draft two once-in-a-generation franchise players within 12 years. The closest comparison may be San Antonio getting Tim Duncan in time to play a few seasons with David Robinson. And Drew and Kobe will surely get more shots to win championships than the Spurs duo.
The Doberman and the Beast! That is what the Lakers have to transform themselves into this training camp. Sick Kobe on the other team’s best guards, press and trap everywhere, let Drew and Pau protect the rim and control the boards. Use our great depth, speed, quickness, and athleticism to force other team’s into turnovers that ignite Showtime quality fast breaks. It’s the perfect strategy to fit the style and talents of this Lakers team. It’s the Triangle Offense reversed – great defense fueling great offense, rather than vice versa. We saw how the formula worked in the Olympics. A similar strategy will work for the Lakers.
Just a comment to the critics who think I am too over-the-top about Andrew Bynum. There have only been 3 Lakers players whom I have anointed as future Hall of Famers early in their careers in my 35 years as a Lakers fan: Magic Johnson, James Worthy, and Kobe Bryant. You can definitely add Andrew Bynum to that list. He may even elevate his game enough this year to be recognized as the premier center in the NBA at 21-years old playing alongside the premier guard and best player in the NBA. Proof positive that God is a Lakers fan. LOL.
I really liked this interview. IMO Drew always seemed camera shy and slightly nerdy. I even remember him dropping the Fbomb in a post game interview on FSN West. He didn't seem polished or confident. Maybe because he was just a kid.
Not anymore, this "new" Drew has a swagger and means business. He came off as cocky but still polite in this interview and I really liked it. I liked how he said he wouldn't allow the Cs to get that many layups if he was in the game.
Only time will tell how great Drew will be but I think he will one day crack that top five centers of all time list that's a few posts up. Real talk.
I have spent hours searching thru the archives and I can't
find the url I *believe* you posted. It was not the draft
express url. I responded to it and quoted it, but can't
find it.
T.A. defensive
Defense: A versatile defender that can defend both perimeter positions effectively. Has the lateral quickness, size, and athleticism to be a very good defender. Shows a good work ethic and a willingness to mix it up in the lane. Uses his length to make plays in passing lanes. Displays very good anticipation. One of the best in the NBA per-minute at coming up with steals. Doesn’t block a lot of shots or commit many fouls, but does a good job contesting shots. Will box out and pursue rebounds at a terrific rate. Possesses all the physical tools necessary to be a great defender in extended minutes, but will have to improve in other areas to get more than rotation minutes.
LO defensive:
Defense: A very talented defender who can matchup with a few different positions. Can guard both forward spots effectively, but is also able to defend most guards when he gets switched onto them. Will block some shots around the rim, play passing lanes, and make an effort to collect loose balls. Length helps him stay in front of his man and create turnovers. Will box out and grab a lot of rebounds—which is one of his strong points. Very capable on the defensive end. Plays more aggressive defense than offense. Commits quite a few fouls.
You've said your piece. I've said my piece. I'm still
taking Ariza over Odom. I'll see you in October.
"Bynum, the 10th overall selection in the 2005 NBA draft, credited the rapid improvement he made last season to the hiring Zarzana in the wake of withering criticism from teammate Kobe Bryant after the Lakers’ first-round playoff ouster in 2007."
I've never quite understood why Kobe was criticized for criticizing Bynum. I haven't yet seen much congratulations for the ultimate effect. Of course, we haven't yet seen the ultimate effect because the chain of events hasn't been fulfilled. Just as a reminder, here's the chain of events:
1) Kobe criticizes, at the same time, the Lakers and Bynum, who consistently underperformed in his first two years especially as the season wore on. This criticism was private but well discernable and Kobe's despair with Andrew's lack of progress was a major contributing factor to his impatience with the Lakers organization.
2) After hitting the airwaves with his complaints about the Laker following a first round elimination, Kobe "goes public" with his dissing of Drew, though he couldn't have anticipated that his parking lot conversation would become that public!
3) Jerry Buss wakes up and starts playing poker with Kobe, encouraging Kupchak to wake up and look closely at all personnel questions, including the possibility (i.e. bluff) of trading Kobe.
4) Simultaneously with 3, Drew realizes Kobe knows what he's talking about and responds to the one guy who put moral pressure on him (Buss didn't, Kupchak didn't, Phil didn't and the Cap' didn't).
5) Drew shines thanks to a new-found work ethic and Kobe grins, sensing a chance of approaching a championship.
6) Kupchak starts taking an interest in his job and deals Cook (serious dead weight) for Ariza.
7) Drew goes down, but Kobe remains motivated, showing his thinking is long term and patient.
8) Kupchak, by now wide awake, makes the trade of the new millennium, the mother of all steals, realizing how fragile things may become in the future. He deals the biggest piece of dead weight (Brown Calves) and picks up the piece that not only fills in for Drew but excites everyone between here and the moon about a possible future dream frontcourt (at the 5,4 and 3).
9) Kobe makes it clear that the last thing he is interested in - in spite of Hall of Famer Chucky Atkins veiled criticism - is being General Manager. (What? Atkins may not be nominated to the HOF?). But his actions - however unreflecting and irrational - actually got the job down.
In the light of all that we know now, how is it possible to condemn Kobe for what he did at the end of the 2006-7 season? It wasn't all planned, it wasn't an accomplished demonstration of maturity, but in a certain sense it was perfectly executed, with the added irony that Drew's injury while playing against Pau Gasol, which pained every Laker fan on earth, was the event that finally enabled Kupchak to put all the pieces together while removing embarrassing the piece called Kwame.
In a way, it's a typical demonstration of teamwork and the triangle. Buss, Kupchak and Kobe worked brilliantly together by moving in different directions and observing each other to find the right configuration. And as sport cannot be an exact science, luck was part of it as well.
The approach of the 2008 season is a moment of great revelation. The world is seeing Shaq for the person he's always been, which remained hidden under his goofy and endearing pandering-to-the-public personality, and the Lakers are shaping into a new legendary dynasty under the subtle and omnipresent leadership of Kobe Bean Bryant.
I'm not really a fan of bandwagons, but I'll go for 65 likely (and a minimum of 60), the other 7 or 8 predictable wins taken off the reckoning due to inevitable short-term injuries and the occasional contestable officiating (let's hope as well that Stu Jackson doesn't spend his nights looking for evidence of "unnatural basketball gestures"). In other words, there's a possibility of 73. Go for it, Lakers.
Now more of the AB good news. Contract discussions will be completed by early to mid Oct. Wanna speculate what the amount will be. I think you all heard my take.
Xodus might well be the team reporter but he is going to have to come out of the closet (sorry, Mrs. Xodus) and stop being afraid to believe all of those parades he keeps envisioning when he thinks of this team. Laker85 and JSNV are competing for rate rookie spots on the roster. Even though he sometimes has been an old fart since the Celtics beat us, Edwin will probably honored with a lifetime achievement award. JustaLakersFan is another star defensive blogger.
LOL!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 05, 2008 at 06:53 PM
=============================
LakerTom
Thanks for the mad props. Really appreciated. Back at cha.
Well you said your piece and I said my piece.
I'm still taking Lamar over Trevor for now (in the future Trevor probably) I'll see you in October as well.
I'm going to make a bold statement that this lakers offensive team will be the best anyone will ever see play bball. They will have one of the most efficient offensive team to play in the NBA's history.
For this reason, the lakers will win 60 games easily. Expect to see many blowout games. One minute we are only up by 2, the next minute we are up by 25. I
ts not going to be how much points we put up, but how efficient we will be. I can see 6 guys on this team averaging over 50% field goal shooting, including Kobe.
I know it is accepted to put Russell ahead of Wilt because the eleven rings are an amazing number, but as individual players, and I think that's what you are taking about, Wilt's numbers are in the "NBA JAM - He's on fire” type zone. The dude was on fire for seasons on end – averaging 50 a game, averaging 27 rebounds a game, averaging almost 9 assists per game – Dude was outright destructive.
The bigger issue for me is what does Drew have to do to crack your top five – which I tend to agree with – notwithstanding the placement, but I could be convinced that Shaq deserves the 5 spot. I truly believe that the 08-09 Lakers are better than the 2000 Lakers. This team is more versatile, athletic, and I would argue more talented. I believe Drew will blossom into the next Laker superstar center. I would not be surprised if he’s on the bubble for all star consideration in the west this year. And if he remains on the course that I anticipate he will take – and, most importantly, injury free -- several championships later, he will likely displace Hakeem in the top five.
Just listening on the audio, Bynum is like my younger nephew eager beaver and very excited to play again. He doesn't appear to be a beast as LakerTom protrayed more or a puppy ready to go to the LA Fair. I think the interviewer, AK there sounded like a beast out there lol! in asking three consecutive questions about AB contract negotiation and Socks parried it with his usual blocks. From these interviews, I see positive signs but nothing matters until we see them play side-by-side with Pau, Kobe, Lamar. I take this audio as selling time for the junkies on Bynum XT.
proof again this blog has a negative bias towards shaq and a positive bias towards kobe.
can you really tell me that shaq isn't top five? shaq, in this prime, would kick the crap out of 3 of the 5 mentioned above.
i'm never surprised at the level of disrespect conveyed by this blog towards a former laker great who brought 3 championships to LA.
in this case, i side with shaq that some LA fans are "idiots".
note: my "idiot" comment is a generic comment not directed any anybody specific. i only used blitz' comment as an example, but this blog has traditionally made negative comments about shaq's contributions to the organization.
remember, jerry west recurited shaq, not kobe. kobe was a gamble that panned out.
What determines the strength of the regular season is the hunger expressed in the training of the offseason.
If players like Andrew Bynum and Sasha Vujacic are working their butts off during the offseason instead of sunning themselves on the beaches of the Bahamas, downing mai tais, THAT is a VERY good sign.
We've heard how Kobe, Pau, Bynum, and Sasha have spent their offseasons.
I'd like to hear more about what the other players are doing during this offseason.
I'd hope that each of the players would take a two week vacation to some place nice and spend time with their families, but I'd hope that after they had their brief break, they'd begin to focus on their weaknesses and train like hell to make themselves better players.
I pray young Bynum is compelely healthy for the coming season. I would like to see him, healthy, and going up against center's who weigh more than 270 lbs and who play defensive philosophy type basketball.
If the Lakers players are working half as hard as we are on the blog, they will be just fine.
The only Lakers player I'm concerned about is Luke. Recovering from surgery would limit his practice time. He needed it to hone his shot and positively build on some of his lost confidence.
He may be a bit slow out of the gate, but with our depth at the 3 [Lamar, Ariza, Vlad, and Kobe] I'm not too worried.
Like you, I'm eager for the season to start, and watch how Kobe skillfully leads the Lakers to an NBA title.
Well, if you want Shaq to be one of the five best, perhaps you can put up your own best five or fave for T-Mobile. Like Luke Walton, he considered himself as one of the best NBA player today in his T-Mobile. This is the problem of having fantasies on players, people differs in their opinion and started calling names also in fantansy. The word "idiot" maybe treated generic to all those who criticized Shag but the wrong approach to bridge long lasting friendship on the blog. Some of you guys here are careless in using terms that may be normal to your upbringing like id**t, stup*d, dumba** but to others, who are not accustomed to such conversations tho' shared same comments don't appreciate the generic impact of the word. Peace brother, better be clear in the beginning than get to further smoginess that's how to maintain peace in the Middle East LA. lol!
You are right I would put Shaq in my top 5 centers as well. I think I would have Kareem number one overall. He was the most devestating offensive player of all time and he was all NBA defense 11 years.
While Wilt had staggering numbers a lot of people, especially younger people forget that alot of those numbers came when most NBA centers were six five, six six etc. Go back and look at some of those early videos and see the size of his competion. It is much the same for Russell. Kareem and Shaq would have been just as dominate in that era.
Wait, do you mean it's kind of like your bias against Kobe, who is one of the greatest Lakers ever. I agree that Shaq is one the top 5 centers of all-time, but I'd like to introduce you to the kettle, I think you've got a lot in common.
You go on and on saying that no one wants to play with Kobe with absolutely no comparisons of superstars who take the midlevel exception to play with guys like Nash, Lebron, Kidd, Duncan etc. You say that you hate Kobe because he has gone on record as saying he wants to be MJ, when he's never said such a thing, yet you don't mention a thing about Lebron who wheres the No. 23 and calls himself the King.
I'm sorry, but you've got no business calling anyone biased.
And quit acting like Lakers fans are the only people that diss Shaq. There's a certain trend that Shaq follows where he's beloved when he comes in and is hated by the time he leaves. Orlando Magic fans and Miami Heat fans hate Shaq as much as we do. You're the only one missing this obvious trend.
for those Shaq lovers who think that Shaq would've devastated guys like Russel and Wilt, just remember that he went against a much smaller Hakeem and had his butt served up on a plate.
Shaq is certainly one of the best who ever lived and was awesome as a Laker, but he wasn't top 5....
what is this "Jerry West recruited Shaq not Kobe" stuff? maybe he didn't "recurited" Kobe, but he certainly traded for him and then mentored him. what's the point? what does Kobe have to do with any of the centers discussed?
I went back through the rosters and I am pretty sure there are only 5 starting centers that big. Yao, Shaq, D Howard, Kaman and Perkins.
Last year we saw him play Howard to a stand still and dominate Kaman. we saw him only play Yao in the 1st game of the year and he did o.k coming off the bench. He had some problems with Boston but he also had KG doubling down on him. With Pau, Perkins will have to play him straight up, so that will be a better test. And of course he didnt get a chance to play Shaq. I ommited Oden from the list because as a rookie, there is no way to gage him yet. Anyway I am pretty confident that Andrew is going to have a very good year. at 21 the sky is the limit for him.
The only reason I put Wilt at #2 was because dominating at scoring was something he was supposed to do. Like michael h. just posted, there were only a small handfull of big men back in those days, and Wilt was just such a beast...how would you EVER stop that guy?? Well, Rusell did!! Not only one lucky tgime, but again and again.
Shaq would have cracked my top five if I wasn't so pissed off at him right now. It's really hard to ignore what a force he was for us. And what he did for the city, but Shaq gets no love in my book right now!!
What would Bynum have to do to crack my top five?? Easy. Prove something.
It's not a disrespect towards Shaq but against the legends Shaq is up in the Top 10 centers not really in the Top 5. I dunno if you guys remember how dominant Wilt and Bill were. Wilt was absolutely a monster in an era where it was totally physical (he was actually mugged and fouls wouldn't even be called). For all Shaq's greatness, Shaq never averaged 50 points, 20 rebounds per game. Shot blocks and defensive all teams were created/introduced around the last of era. Wilt would probably average 70 points, 25 rebounds in this NBA era of less hand checking.
Same with Bill Russell, while not being the scoring Machine that Wilt was, Russell was just dominant in other areas. 20 rebounds also and would have made the defensive team at least 10 times (had they been introduced earlier in his era). Unofficial stats had both Wilt and Bill average 8 blocks per game (Wilt had 18 blocks his first game). Shaq wasn't much of a defender and this shows with only 2 2nd defensive all team trips. Wilt and Bill would have gotten more than 6 1st all teams and at least a defensive player of the year.
As much as I love the Cap and that he's my favorite Laker of all time, Kareem doesn't compare to either Wilt and Bill. Wilt was one of the few people who could actually block the sky hook. But in all other cases, the Cap was probably the greatest Laker, beating out Magic man for sure. The Captain did it all: score, rebound, pass, run the offense. Shaq so far isn't getting any votes for doing the same kind of things Kareem did in his late 30's. Kareem won the league MVP at age 38! Plus Kareem could make his free throws (70%) reasonably compared to other big men. Plus Cap was a great defender as well and will be an excellent tutor to young Andrew Bynum.
Kicking the crap out of Hakeem the Dream? In his prime Hakeem kicked the crap out of the Captain during his time with Ralph Sampson not to mentioning owning Shaq during the 1994-1995 NBA Finals. Hakeem unlike most other big men, could actually hang around with most guards in the perimeter and was an adept ball thief not to mention a big shot blocker. Shaq himself said of Hakeem ""Hakeem has five moves then four countermoves, that gives him 20 moves.". Hakeem may not be the power that Wilt was and didn't have the body of Shaq but no one else had the moves which made him one of the top 5 centers. He's also on of the few NBA players to actually get a quadruple double (18 points, 16 rebounds, 10 assists, 11 blocks) Hakeem simply owned Shaq, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson in the 90's.
I gave the slight edge for Moses over Shaq, since Moses's 76ers team was the only ones in the east until the coming of the Bad Boy Pistons to seriously challenge Larry Bird and the Celtics. Moses was about the same defender as Shaq but Moses was slightly better to win a 1st All Defensive team. Plus Moses could also score a bit from mid range and was just a beast in the post. Shaq would get my vote for number 6 but in a head to head playing in an era of handchecking and no flagrant fouls, Moses would win though barely considering Shaq's greatness.
There Top 5 centers. Shaq is deserving in Top 10 but against the Legends it's harder for him. All of these guys except for Bill could even score from mid range (yes Wilt had a jumper, he developed on to show he wasn't just a tall freak and could only score in the post). These guys have one thing that Shaq wasn't too great off: Defense. Phil even said to Shaq that if he concentrated more on Defense, he would be even more dominant (the legend big men were great defenders along with their offensive numbers). No Shaq then said to Phil "I've never been an defensive guy". Shaq had tons of potential for defense more than just 2 measly 2nd all defensive teams but I guess he just wanted to score/rebound more and try to Wilt which he isn't.
I don't diss Shaq's legacy and accomplishment though I do diss what Shaq is doing atm. Shaq couldn't hang around the top 4 centers of all time (one of them even owned him-Hakeem). Moses would be challenged by Shaq but Moses has more skills than Shaq does.
There that's why Shaq doesn't crack the top 5 (top 6 actually he made). Think and try to look at the legends first before remembering recent memory of what Shaq did for LA or for whoever. I respect Shaq for what he did for LA not to mention his accomplishments that will make him NBA Hall of Fame but simply put: Shaq couldn't carry Wilt and Bill's jockstrap. Only homers would say he would own most of these guys (Moses he could give a run for his money but Moses would beat him in the end) when 3 of them could have owned him and one of them, Hakeem the dream, already owned him.
as always, you're the sound of reason. i wasn't referring to any blogger here as an "idiot".
i do, however, agree with shaq when he called some (underscore "some") LA fans "idiots".
i would too if i did good work for a bunch of people (shaq brining the championship back to LA) and having the very same people poop all over me when i leave.
it's a normal reaction. during my banishment, i'd still try and occasionally read (and post to) this blog and the common theme is that shaq's a bum.
kinda sad considering shaq was the last person mostly responsible for bringing a championship to LA. do you think guys like ron harper, rick fox and robert horry would join LA had shaq (and the opportunity to win championships) weren't in LA? they sure weren't here to play with baby kobe at 17-years of age.
i might have my bias against kobe, but alot of this blog has a bias against shaq which is a shame.
"Wilt was just such a beast...how would you EVER stop that guy?? Well, Rusell did!! Not only one lucky tgime, but again and again."
For all of Russell's greatness, he had the better coach and the better supporting cast (though Russell showed without them he could still succeed). Give Wilt the same thing and Wilt would win.
And people forget that era of NBA was just physical. I mean the touch fouls of the NBA wouldn't even count then. To foul, a player had to actually hurt the opposing players.
"do you think guys like ron harper, rick fox and robert horry would join LA had shaq (and the opportunity to win championships) weren't in LA? they sure weren't here to play with baby kobe at 17-years of age."
Actually, Horry was traded to the Lakers (as in, he didn't make the call one way or the other) and Harper didn't join the Lakers until a 21-year old Kobe was in his fourth season and undoubtedly at least "a" reason that Harper, at the tail end of his career and looking for more titles before retiring in 2001, thought this team could win it all. And honestly, Harper's relationship with Phil Jackson might have played a bigger reason to join the team than Shaq OR Kobe.
Seriously, man. I can't emphasize how much it would help you to do five minutes of research before posting. Or just own up to the fact that you're a Shaq fan who'll always bear a permanent grudge against Kobe because the two didn't get along, which is both your right to bear and will stop a lot of pointless discussion in its tracks.
I agree with AK on that it'd be easier for all of us if you just admitted that you were staunchly against Kobe and nothing would change your views, because I wouldn't even bother.
Are you really using Horry and Harper as examples? For one, those are role players, when the point you were making was that no stars (like Baron Davis and KG) were taking less money. And secondly, like AK said Horry was traded to the Lakers and Harper signed with the Lakers after PJ joined the Lakers when Kobe was 21 and among the best 2-guards in the league already.
You seriously haven't backed up any of your claims with one shred of legitimate, factual evidence. Everything you've said has been based on your own slanted view of everything Kobe. I'm not saying Kobe is perfect, he's not, but if you're going to make the claim that no star wants to play with Kobe say the same thing about other superstars because NO ONE is taking less money to play in Phoenix, Dallas, SA or anywhere else.
Unless you'd like your second stint on the blog to just be a PG version of your first and hang onto your schtick for dear life. Which is fine, but I'd think it'd be more enjoyable to have conversations dealing in fact and not cynicism. And that doesn't mean say 4 Hail Kobe's everyday, just say things you can actually back up and have a legitimate debate about.
Seriously, man. I can't emphasize how much it would help you to do five minutes of research before posting. Or just own up to the fact that you're a Shaq fan who'll always bear a permanent grudge against Kobe because the two didn't get along, which is both your right to do and will also stop a lot of pointless discussion in its tracks.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 06, 2008 at 12:32 PM
OMG. How many slap around can a sane person take? Delightful!
I understand your point of view but my point with Kareem was he played in an era where there were a lot of quality centers his size. Wilt and Russell played a good portion of their carrears against six five centers. I still have Wilt and Russel 2 and 3 but I have to give Kareem the top spot for what he was able to accomplish against tougher competition.
im sorry to everyone that i have to go off topic but i have a question for Mr. Kobebryantblitz
Thekobebryantblitz
There is someone on youtube that goes by the name of Bruce Blitz with several youtube accounts using "blitz" at the end. one of the youtube accounts being "thekobebryantblitz".
Is this you bruce? is this a poser? or just some dude who doesn't know?
5) Drew shines thanks to a new-found work ethic and Kobe grins, sensing a chance of approaching a championship.
Posted by: Tsphere | September 05, 2008 at 10:49 PM
===============================
Sorry Tsphere
But this is all revisionist history. I will comment mainly on point 5 but thee rest is wrong too.
Andrew Bynum was confident and yes cocky before he put on the Laker uniform and met PJ or Kobe.
Upon being drafted he said he wanted to be the best center and he even had the guts to diss Shaq when asked about him. He said at least he would make his free throws. He had the attitude from the start.
He also hired his trainer long before Kobe dissed him so it wasn't Kobe who motivated him. It was Andrew himself.
As for not playing great early that was PJs fault for not giving him pt or at least in PJs terms of letting him play and figure it out. Instead he constantly berated AB.
With thid in mind it throws your chain of events in whacked out sports.
>>>proof again this blog has a negative bias towards shaq
>>>and a positive bias towards kobe.
Faulty logic there, KL. Just because ONE BLOGGER didn't
include Shaq in their top 5 doesn't mean that the whole
blog has a bias against Shaq. It's just hyperbole on your
part.
>>>can you really tell me that shaq isn't top five? shaq,
>>>in this prime, would kick the crap out of 3 of the 5
>>>mentioned above.
I'd have to think about it, but I'd likely put Shaq in the top
5 of all time. I'd have a hard time putting him higher than
Kareem or Wilt or Russell though.
Kareem vs Shaq: strength means nothing against the
sky-hook. Kareem would score at will on Shaq. Shaq
would be able to muscle Kareem around a bit in the lane,
and would score okay too, but Kareem was an excellent
shot blocker, so it wouldn't be like he was out there playing
Chris Dudley or something. And when they fouled each
other, Kareem would make his free throws and Shaq would
miss his. Advantage goes to Kareem.
Russell vs Shaq: Bill Russell always managed to get the
best of centers that were bigger and stronger than him.
Sure, Wilt usually outscored Russell when they went
head to head, but it was always Russell winning the
championship. If Russell's skill could beat out Wilt's size
and strength, then it could beat out Shaq's size and
strength as well.
Wilt vs Shaq: clash of the titans. This is sheer size and
strength vs sheer size and strength. Not sure who would
win, but it certainly would be fun to watch. I think Wilt
would come out on top. Shaq never averaged 50 for a season, but the league was tougher in Shaq's prime than
in Wilt's prime.
As for ranking Mikan ahead of Shaq, that's just crazy talk.
Shaq would absolutely dominate Mikan.
As for the person who compared the PER stats and declared
Shaq the best, you're missing a point about the stats.
The NBA didn't start recording blocks and steals until the
1973-74 season and didn't start recording turnovers until
the 1977-78 season, and all three of those values go into
PER calculation. If you add blocks and steals to the PER
values for Wilt and Russell & Kareem's first 4 years in the
NBA, those guys (and maybe a couple of others) would
have higher career PER averages than Shaq.
Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky are contributing writers to ESPN The
Magazine and ESPN.com, and co-authored Fishing on the Edge, the autobiography of 2003 Bassmaster Classic champion Mike Iaconelli, bass fishing's bad boy. While both grew up in St. Louis without NBA
basketball, Andrew became a die hard Lakers fanatic after moving to L.A. to attend USC. That he managed to find a job requiring him to obsess over his favorite team, the same activity that prompted him to waste time while working other jobs, is pretty incredible. As for Brian, his baptism into pro hoops fandom has been provided by the "All Lakers, All The Time" citizens of Los Angeles. Beats the hell out of covering the Bucks.
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lok AK, good job.
AK/BK if Lamar does well this season enough to ensure his stay in LA, we both know that he will take a paycut regardless in order to stay or with any other team. The question is since Lamar has been here for more than 3 years without being waived or changing teams (assuming we don't trade him) will he have become a Bird Free Agent? As much as he could be an asset to LA for years to come (assuming he doesn't mothball the season) I dunno if we should use the Mid-Level Exception on him if we can get a very good free agent to sign better than him to come to LA. If we can still use the Mid-Level Exception and get him at a reasonable price all the better. And one other question, if Ronny wasn't a restricted free agent (instead an unrestricted free agent), would he have qualified as a bird free agent still? He only played 2 full seasons with us, I don't know if by playing only 1/2 of the season back in 2005-2006 would have counted to him being a Bird Free Agent if it takes 3 years to become a Bird Free Agent.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 05, 2008 at 06:32 PM
AK,
Although you will probably be criticized for over emphasizing Drew, we all know that he is the key to the Lakers future championships. Thanks for three AB17 threads in a row. A Bigger and Better Bynum will launch the Era of the Beast.
The Lakers Blog has gone GHF. LOL.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 05, 2008 at 06:42 PM
blitz,
You are hereby selected as starting shooting guard on my All-GHF Lakers blog team. Glad to see another diehard optimist not afraid to call it like he sees it. And we see championships!!! Andrew Bynum is going to astonish Lakers fans this year. If the rest of the NBA thought the Lakers had a perfect storm of fortune last season to make it within two wins of winning the championship, they ain’t seen nothing yet. The Lakers Big 3 of Kobe, Drew, and Pau are going to set records for the number of championships won before they are through.
As to the rest of the All-GHF team, Jon K will likely get the nod at power forward and team enforcer and trainer. I’ve even been considering reaching across the aisle (like Obama and McCain, lol) and adding former GHE blogger ex as a defender due to his positive comments since the middle of last season. Bynumite will make the team just based on his blog handle.
Mamba24 is a strong candidate for coach, as well as AK and BK if you can really believe that. Long Time is the team’s Lamar Odom (sorry, dangles) – unappreciated as a starter due to his low ball attitude on salaries – and more likely to succeed as 6th man, where he can chime in on any brief conversation and turn it into an endless battle. Of course, right along with him will be humanomaly and hobbitmage, who also know how to string together marathon posts.
Xodus might well be the team reporter but he is going to have to come out of the closet (sorry, Mrs. Xodus) and stop being afraid to believe all of those parades he keeps envisioning when he thinks of this team. Laker85 and JSNV are competing for rate rookie spots on the roster. Even though he sometimes has been an old fart since the Celtics beat us, Edwin will probably honored with a lifetime achievement award. JustaLakersFan is another star defensive blogger.
Same with Faith who worries too much but still has faith, lol. Lakers_sth may be asked to pay for his spot on the team – probably by donating more tickets to Psyched Laker Girl or Charles. JJ may get a shot at comeback blogger of the year and being the original marathon blogger. Hey, you know what, there may not be anybody left to play for the All-GHE team other than Mike T. and ringer trolls such as KL, GWB, or BUTtLickER. The Lakers Blog has gone GHF.
LOL!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 05, 2008 at 06:53 PM
Xodus,
Yup the Lakers would have paid alot more to get Kevin Garnett. KG's contract was way more than both Lamar's and Bynum's combined salaries (KG"s contract: $23,750,000). Odom's and Bynum's contract were combined for $15,420,596. The Lakers would still be owing $4,755,904 had they traded for KG and only gave up Odom and Bynum. Derek couldn't be used in the trade because he signed that year and he couldn't be traded. Neither could Luke's since he resigned with the Lakers and thus for the same reasons. Cook's contract was not enough to fill the gap (only $3,500,000). The only other pieces were Kwa-may Brown ($9,075,000) and Radman ($5,632,200). Giving up Kwa-may Brown while beneficial to the Lakers in term of getting rid of a soft scrub, would have let the Lakers extremely thin at Center postion (only Chris Mihm, YIKES! and Ronny as a serviceable backup). And the Timberwolves didn't want Radman's contract since they would have to pay him for an additional 5 years. Or we would have been forced to give up 3 rookies at least. That would have left the Lakers almost talenltess beyond Kobe and KG and maybe Derek. Some team huh?
The same thing about Lebron, there is no way that Lebron would have signed only for 5.6 million per year (the Mid-Level exception). In fact Lebron wants to be the First Billionaire Athlete even more than Michael Jordan (who else is trying to tug at MJ's cape ;P) so there really is no reason why Lebron would sign for 5.6 even if it means playing for Kobe or whoever team unless they have a big cap and has young talent waiting for him. He looks to sign for the Nets since the already made moves to be under the cap for 2010 when Lebron is a free agent plus they'll move to Brooklyn (he loved New York, his favorite city and LA was number 4. Akron was number 5 Cleveland wasn't even in his top 5 LOL!). The Nets though will suffer through 2 years of lottery bound years probably as well.
And the Shaq trade was a good thing in the long run. Had we kept Shaq instead of Kobe, not only would his skill have diminished by now but because he wanted over 20 million usd, the Lakers would be well over the cap unless everybody signed for the bare minimum (Phil Jackson even said that in his last book). I give Shaq is due but he already blemished himself atm (not his legacy) by not only dissing Miami (yes Miami hates him) but also stalking a female rapper.
Nice rebuttal Xodus. And I saw yours just now AK, great job you two.
-blitz
Posted by: | September 05, 2008 at 07:08 PM
Laker Tom,
Lol! Thanks a bunch, you do a great job too! Thanks for putting me as a SG, that was my best position when I played Bball, never really liked playing point guard though I was kinda good at it as well. :)
Charles,
Thanks a bunch too. A few more pounds of strength for Pau and an improvement to his jumper would certainly help for us. Because his position is now Power Forward he can use more of his offensive weapons including starting from high post and mid range area and driving and doing hook shots which I felt were his best % shots aside from dunk. With the way the Triangle Offense is, I hope to see more short jumpers when he's wide open but if a center was blocking the front of the rim. I know he can make those with his talent. In a way he kind of reminds me of Bill Cartwright during the 1st Bulls 3peat. Very nice inside scorer with a solid mid and short range jumper. Ironically he was drafted the same position as Pau (Cartwright in 1979 draft #3 overall and Pau #3 overall in 2001 draft). Plus Cartwright was an under rated defender and during the battles with the Knicks managed to hold his own against Patrick Ewing, similarly to Pau and him holding KG to 44.4% in the Finals. This also is kinda funny since Cartwright was traded for Charles Oakley, whom Mike T. compared his boy Kwa-may Brown to (Though Charles Oakley was the real deal in rebounding and defending, something Kwa-may Brown was never really good at LOL!). Overall, I would rate Pau to be a much better version of Cartwright.
Edwin,
thanks for your compliments as well. If I didn't have a job already I would love to try defensive coordinator in football and maybe an assistant coach in basketball. I wouldn't try to be a head coach in either football or basketball hehe.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 05, 2008 at 07:26 PM
Jon K,
I kinda disagree with Wilt and Kareem, Bill Russell was far better than Kareem and ranked near Wilt (I know he's a Celtic but I give the legends their credits). Here's how I rank the Centers:
Top 5 all time centers
1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Bill Russell
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon
5) Moses Malone.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 05, 2008 at 07:33 PM
Hello Laker peoples
I've seen the 65 win bandwagon but I'm not a pessimist like you guys.
Sign me up for the 70 win bandwagon NOW!
Still 50+ days to pure domainance.
Posted by: Bynumite | September 05, 2008 at 07:42 PM
PROOF THAT GOD IS A LAKERS FAN…
That’s the first thing that popped into my mind as I listened to Andrew Bynum’s interview. He made me feel like a proud parent and lottery winner at the same time. This is a young man who really has it all together – a great person as well as great player. He was articulate, witty, passionate, focused, and confident. It was great to hear him talking about working with Cap to be even better on defense and to hear that he is faster and stronger and in better shape than last year and intends to turn his game “up a couple of notches.” I also loved how confident he was that he and Pau were going to be a force not only on offense but also on defense.
Drew reminds me greatly of another young high school baller that the Lakers stole in the NBA draft 12 years ago and who is the team’s leader and league’s most valuable player last year. Andrew Bynum truly shares Kobe Bryant’s work ethic, competitive fire, and desire to win. Talk about good fortune. How many times in NBA history has a team been fortunate enough to draft two once-in-a-generation franchise players within 12 years. The closest comparison may be San Antonio getting Tim Duncan in time to play a few seasons with David Robinson. And Drew and Kobe will surely get more shots to win championships than the Spurs duo.
The Doberman and the Beast! That is what the Lakers have to transform themselves into this training camp. Sick Kobe on the other team’s best guards, press and trap everywhere, let Drew and Pau protect the rim and control the boards. Use our great depth, speed, quickness, and athleticism to force other team’s into turnovers that ignite Showtime quality fast breaks. It’s the perfect strategy to fit the style and talents of this Lakers team. It’s the Triangle Offense reversed – great defense fueling great offense, rather than vice versa. We saw how the formula worked in the Olympics. A similar strategy will work for the Lakers.
Just a comment to the critics who think I am too over-the-top about Andrew Bynum. There have only been 3 Lakers players whom I have anointed as future Hall of Famers early in their careers in my 35 years as a Lakers fan: Magic Johnson, James Worthy, and Kobe Bryant. You can definitely add Andrew Bynum to that list. He may even elevate his game enough this year to be recognized as the premier center in the NBA at 21-years old playing alongside the premier guard and best player in the NBA. Proof positive that God is a Lakers fan. LOL.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 05, 2008 at 07:45 PM
Hello Lakers fans, Just trying to find out when is Kobe have is surgery on his hand.
Posted by: John Blakes | September 05, 2008 at 07:59 PM
I really liked this interview. IMO Drew always seemed camera shy and slightly nerdy. I even remember him dropping the Fbomb in a post game interview on FSN West. He didn't seem polished or confident. Maybe because he was just a kid.
Not anymore, this "new" Drew has a swagger and means business. He came off as cocky but still polite in this interview and I really liked it. I liked how he said he wouldn't allow the Cs to get that many layups if he was in the game.
Only time will tell how great Drew will be but I think he will one day crack that top five centers of all time list that's a few posts up. Real talk.
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | September 05, 2008 at 08:54 PM
Top five all time centers:
1 Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Dream
5. Mikan
Posted by: dan the man | September 05, 2008 at 09:37 PM
Thanks, KBB
Posted by: Xodus | September 05, 2008 at 09:51 PM
thekobebryantblitz,
I have spent hours searching thru the archives and I can't
find the url I *believe* you posted. It was not the draft
express url. I responded to it and quoted it, but can't
find it.
[ it sucks to man up and be honest. :) ]
however since you like draft-express:
http://tinyurl.com/5bh58g Trevor Ariza
http://tinyurl.com/64kw3l Lamar Odom
T.A. defensive
Defense: A versatile defender that can defend both perimeter positions effectively. Has the lateral quickness, size, and athleticism to be a very good defender. Shows a good work ethic and a willingness to mix it up in the lane. Uses his length to make plays in passing lanes. Displays very good anticipation. One of the best in the NBA per-minute at coming up with steals. Doesn’t block a lot of shots or commit many fouls, but does a good job contesting shots. Will box out and pursue rebounds at a terrific rate. Possesses all the physical tools necessary to be a great defender in extended minutes, but will have to improve in other areas to get more than rotation minutes.
LO defensive:
Defense: A very talented defender who can matchup with a few different positions. Can guard both forward spots effectively, but is also able to defend most guards when he gets switched onto them. Will block some shots around the rim, play passing lanes, and make an effort to collect loose balls. Length helps him stay in front of his man and create turnovers. Will box out and grab a lot of rebounds—which is one of his strong points. Very capable on the defensive end. Plays more aggressive defense than offense. Commits quite a few fouls.
You've said your piece. I've said my piece. I'm still
taking Ariza over Odom. I'll see you in October.
Posted by: hobbitmage | September 05, 2008 at 10:48 PM
One of the reports says this:
"Bynum, the 10th overall selection in the 2005 NBA draft, credited the rapid improvement he made last season to the hiring Zarzana in the wake of withering criticism from teammate Kobe Bryant after the Lakers’ first-round playoff ouster in 2007."
I've never quite understood why Kobe was criticized for criticizing Bynum. I haven't yet seen much congratulations for the ultimate effect. Of course, we haven't yet seen the ultimate effect because the chain of events hasn't been fulfilled. Just as a reminder, here's the chain of events:
1) Kobe criticizes, at the same time, the Lakers and Bynum, who consistently underperformed in his first two years especially as the season wore on. This criticism was private but well discernable and Kobe's despair with Andrew's lack of progress was a major contributing factor to his impatience with the Lakers organization.
2) After hitting the airwaves with his complaints about the Laker following a first round elimination, Kobe "goes public" with his dissing of Drew, though he couldn't have anticipated that his parking lot conversation would become that public!
3) Jerry Buss wakes up and starts playing poker with Kobe, encouraging Kupchak to wake up and look closely at all personnel questions, including the possibility (i.e. bluff) of trading Kobe.
4) Simultaneously with 3, Drew realizes Kobe knows what he's talking about and responds to the one guy who put moral pressure on him (Buss didn't, Kupchak didn't, Phil didn't and the Cap' didn't).
5) Drew shines thanks to a new-found work ethic and Kobe grins, sensing a chance of approaching a championship.
6) Kupchak starts taking an interest in his job and deals Cook (serious dead weight) for Ariza.
7) Drew goes down, but Kobe remains motivated, showing his thinking is long term and patient.
8) Kupchak, by now wide awake, makes the trade of the new millennium, the mother of all steals, realizing how fragile things may become in the future. He deals the biggest piece of dead weight (Brown Calves) and picks up the piece that not only fills in for Drew but excites everyone between here and the moon about a possible future dream frontcourt (at the 5,4 and 3).
9) Kobe makes it clear that the last thing he is interested in - in spite of Hall of Famer Chucky Atkins veiled criticism - is being General Manager. (What? Atkins may not be nominated to the HOF?). But his actions - however unreflecting and irrational - actually got the job down.
In the light of all that we know now, how is it possible to condemn Kobe for what he did at the end of the 2006-7 season? It wasn't all planned, it wasn't an accomplished demonstration of maturity, but in a certain sense it was perfectly executed, with the added irony that Drew's injury while playing against Pau Gasol, which pained every Laker fan on earth, was the event that finally enabled Kupchak to put all the pieces together while removing embarrassing the piece called Kwame.
In a way, it's a typical demonstration of teamwork and the triangle. Buss, Kupchak and Kobe worked brilliantly together by moving in different directions and observing each other to find the right configuration. And as sport cannot be an exact science, luck was part of it as well.
The approach of the 2008 season is a moment of great revelation. The world is seeing Shaq for the person he's always been, which remained hidden under his goofy and endearing pandering-to-the-public personality, and the Lakers are shaping into a new legendary dynasty under the subtle and omnipresent leadership of Kobe Bean Bryant.
I'm not really a fan of bandwagons, but I'll go for 65 likely (and a minimum of 60), the other 7 or 8 predictable wins taken off the reckoning due to inevitable short-term injuries and the occasional contestable officiating (let's hope as well that Stu Jackson doesn't spend his nights looking for evidence of "unnatural basketball gestures"). In other words, there's a possibility of 73. Go for it, Lakers.
Posted by: Tsphere | September 05, 2008 at 10:49 PM
John Blakes...according to a blogger, Kobe will announce it on Monday.
Posted by: Faith | September 05, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Lots of great news about Bynum. Let's hope it pans out and he stays healthy.
This season could be something good.
Posted by: Benjamin | September 06, 2008 at 12:21 AM
thanks for the shout out and answering my questions KBros!
Posted by: greek dude | September 06, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Laker Nation
Now more of the AB good news. Contract discussions will be completed by early to mid Oct. Wanna speculate what the amount will be. I think you all heard my take.
http://tinyurl.com/5ub5du
and
http://tinyurl.com/6r43e8
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | September 06, 2008 at 01:11 AM
Xodus might well be the team reporter but he is going to have to come out of the closet (sorry, Mrs. Xodus) and stop being afraid to believe all of those parades he keeps envisioning when he thinks of this team. Laker85 and JSNV are competing for rate rookie spots on the roster. Even though he sometimes has been an old fart since the Celtics beat us, Edwin will probably honored with a lifetime achievement award. JustaLakersFan is another star defensive blogger.
LOL!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 05, 2008 at 06:53 PM
=============================
LakerTom
Thanks for the mad props. Really appreciated. Back at cha.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | September 06, 2008 at 01:14 AM
"[ it sucks to man up and be honest. :) ]"
hehe.
Well you said your piece and I said my piece.
I'm still taking Lamar over Trevor for now (in the future Trevor probably) I'll see you in October as well.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 06, 2008 at 03:28 AM
6) Kupchak starts taking an interest in his job and deals Cook (serious dead weight) for Ariza.
Indeed I'm glad we get rid of Cook, we wasted a good draft pick for that lazy, fool.
"He deals the biggest piece of dead weight (Brown Calves)"
Kwa-may Brown is gone, the city of angels, hollywood should be celebrating, throw a parade, this man was a bonafide (soft) scrub. He can't play.
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 06, 2008 at 03:34 AM
I forgot event number 10, but that goes without saying: a championship!
Posted by: Tsphere | September 06, 2008 at 03:36 AM
I'm going to make a bold statement that this lakers offensive team will be the best anyone will ever see play bball. They will have one of the most efficient offensive team to play in the NBA's history.
For this reason, the lakers will win 60 games easily. Expect to see many blowout games. One minute we are only up by 2, the next minute we are up by 25. I
ts not going to be how much points we put up, but how efficient we will be. I can see 6 guys on this team averaging over 50% field goal shooting, including Kobe.
Posted by: wow | September 06, 2008 at 05:23 AM
dan the man
Top five all time centers:
1 Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Dream
5. Mikan
I know it is accepted to put Russell ahead of Wilt because the eleven rings are an amazing number, but as individual players, and I think that's what you are taking about, Wilt's numbers are in the "NBA JAM - He's on fire” type zone. The dude was on fire for seasons on end – averaging 50 a game, averaging 27 rebounds a game, averaging almost 9 assists per game – Dude was outright destructive.
The bigger issue for me is what does Drew have to do to crack your top five – which I tend to agree with – notwithstanding the placement, but I could be convinced that Shaq deserves the 5 spot. I truly believe that the 08-09 Lakers are better than the 2000 Lakers. This team is more versatile, athletic, and I would argue more talented. I believe Drew will blossom into the next Laker superstar center. I would not be surprised if he’s on the bubble for all star consideration in the west this year. And if he remains on the course that I anticipate he will take – and, most importantly, injury free -- several championships later, he will likely displace Hakeem in the top five.
Posted by: HmrHed | September 06, 2008 at 07:09 AM
Just listening on the audio, Bynum is like my younger nephew eager beaver and very excited to play again. He doesn't appear to be a beast as LakerTom protrayed more or a puppy ready to go to the LA Fair. I think the interviewer, AK there sounded like a beast out there lol! in asking three consecutive questions about AB contract negotiation and Socks parried it with his usual blocks. From these interviews, I see positive signs but nothing matters until we see them play side-by-side with Pau, Kobe, Lamar. I take this audio as selling time for the junkies on Bynum XT.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 06, 2008 at 07:50 AM
Top 5 all time centers
1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Bill Russell
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon
5) Moses Malone.
-blitz
*********************************************
proof again this blog has a negative bias towards shaq and a positive bias towards kobe.
can you really tell me that shaq isn't top five? shaq, in this prime, would kick the crap out of 3 of the 5 mentioned above.
i'm never surprised at the level of disrespect conveyed by this blog towards a former laker great who brought 3 championships to LA.
in this case, i side with shaq that some LA fans are "idiots".
note: my "idiot" comment is a generic comment not directed any anybody specific. i only used blitz' comment as an example, but this blog has traditionally made negative comments about shaq's contributions to the organization.
remember, jerry west recurited shaq, not kobe. kobe was a gamble that panned out.
Posted by: KL | September 06, 2008 at 07:57 AM
What determines the strength of the regular season is the hunger expressed in the training of the offseason.
If players like Andrew Bynum and Sasha Vujacic are working their butts off during the offseason instead of sunning themselves on the beaches of the Bahamas, downing mai tais, THAT is a VERY good sign.
We've heard how Kobe, Pau, Bynum, and Sasha have spent their offseasons.
I'd like to hear more about what the other players are doing during this offseason.
I'd hope that each of the players would take a two week vacation to some place nice and spend time with their families, but I'd hope that after they had their brief break, they'd begin to focus on their weaknesses and train like hell to make themselves better players.
That is what Champions do.
And, damniit, I want to win a Championship!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 06, 2008 at 08:36 AM
I pray young Bynum is compelely healthy for the coming season. I would like to see him, healthy, and going up against center's who weigh more than 270 lbs and who play defensive philosophy type basketball.
That would be interesting to see.
Good luck Andrew!
mike t.
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | September 06, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Jon K
If the Lakers players are working half as hard as we are on the blog, they will be just fine.
The only Lakers player I'm concerned about is Luke. Recovering from surgery would limit his practice time. He needed it to hone his shot and positively build on some of his lost confidence.
He may be a bit slow out of the gate, but with our depth at the 3 [Lamar, Ariza, Vlad, and Kobe] I'm not too worried.
Like you, I'm eager for the season to start, and watch how Kobe skillfully leads the Lakers to an NBA title.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Fatty | September 06, 2008 at 10:29 AM
KL,
Well, if you want Shaq to be one of the five best, perhaps you can put up your own best five or fave for T-Mobile. Like Luke Walton, he considered himself as one of the best NBA player today in his T-Mobile. This is the problem of having fantasies on players, people differs in their opinion and started calling names also in fantansy. The word "idiot" maybe treated generic to all those who criticized Shag but the wrong approach to bridge long lasting friendship on the blog. Some of you guys here are careless in using terms that may be normal to your upbringing like id**t, stup*d, dumba** but to others, who are not accustomed to such conversations tho' shared same comments don't appreciate the generic impact of the word. Peace brother, better be clear in the beginning than get to further smoginess that's how to maintain peace in the Middle East LA. lol!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 06, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Aloha K.L
You are right I would put Shaq in my top 5 centers as well. I think I would have Kareem number one overall. He was the most devestating offensive player of all time and he was all NBA defense 11 years.
While Wilt had staggering numbers a lot of people, especially younger people forget that alot of those numbers came when most NBA centers were six five, six six etc. Go back and look at some of those early videos and see the size of his competion. It is much the same for Russell. Kareem and Shaq would have been just as dominate in that era.
MH
Posted by: michael h | September 06, 2008 at 10:30 AM
KL,
Wait, do you mean it's kind of like your bias against Kobe, who is one of the greatest Lakers ever. I agree that Shaq is one the top 5 centers of all-time, but I'd like to introduce you to the kettle, I think you've got a lot in common.
You go on and on saying that no one wants to play with Kobe with absolutely no comparisons of superstars who take the midlevel exception to play with guys like Nash, Lebron, Kidd, Duncan etc. You say that you hate Kobe because he has gone on record as saying he wants to be MJ, when he's never said such a thing, yet you don't mention a thing about Lebron who wheres the No. 23 and calls himself the King.
I'm sorry, but you've got no business calling anyone biased.
And quit acting like Lakers fans are the only people that diss Shaq. There's a certain trend that Shaq follows where he's beloved when he comes in and is hated by the time he leaves. Orlando Magic fans and Miami Heat fans hate Shaq as much as we do. You're the only one missing this obvious trend.
Posted by: Xodus | September 06, 2008 at 10:39 AM
LakerTom
Fair Dinkum mate, i have been reading your posts for over 3 years and they are bloody brilliant
keep up the good work
Aussie Dan
Posted by: AussieDan | September 06, 2008 at 10:42 AM
for those Shaq lovers who think that Shaq would've devastated guys like Russel and Wilt, just remember that he went against a much smaller Hakeem and had his butt served up on a plate.
Shaq is certainly one of the best who ever lived and was awesome as a Laker, but he wasn't top 5....
what is this "Jerry West recruited Shaq not Kobe" stuff? maybe he didn't "recurited" Kobe, but he certainly traded for him and then mentored him. what's the point? what does Kobe have to do with any of the centers discussed?
Posted by: zyzzyxx | September 06, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Aloha Mike T
I went back through the rosters and I am pretty sure there are only 5 starting centers that big. Yao, Shaq, D Howard, Kaman and Perkins.
Last year we saw him play Howard to a stand still and dominate Kaman. we saw him only play Yao in the 1st game of the year and he did o.k coming off the bench. He had some problems with Boston but he also had KG doubling down on him. With Pau, Perkins will have to play him straight up, so that will be a better test. And of course he didnt get a chance to play Shaq. I ommited Oden from the list because as a rookie, there is no way to gage him yet. Anyway I am pretty confident that Andrew is going to have a very good year. at 21 the sky is the limit for him.
MH
Posted by: michael h | September 06, 2008 at 11:08 AM
HmrHed,
The only reason I put Wilt at #2 was because dominating at scoring was something he was supposed to do. Like michael h. just posted, there were only a small handfull of big men back in those days, and Wilt was just such a beast...how would you EVER stop that guy?? Well, Rusell did!! Not only one lucky tgime, but again and again.
Shaq would have cracked my top five if I wasn't so pissed off at him right now. It's really hard to ignore what a force he was for us. And what he did for the city, but Shaq gets no love in my book right now!!
What would Bynum have to do to crack my top five?? Easy. Prove something.
dan
Posted by: dan the man | September 06, 2008 at 11:17 AM
blitz
no center on that list was "far better" than any other.
Posted by: Vman | September 06, 2008 at 11:54 AM
xodus,
i had a nicely written response to many bloggers (including you) that was deleted. i must have mentioned something that was off limits.
i did respond to you though. k-buddies can vouch for me.
gotta go.
Posted by: KL | September 06, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Mike T,
I'm sure Andrew appreciates.
KL, Xodus, Mike H,
It's not a disrespect towards Shaq but against the legends Shaq is up in the Top 10 centers not really in the Top 5. I dunno if you guys remember how dominant Wilt and Bill were. Wilt was absolutely a monster in an era where it was totally physical (he was actually mugged and fouls wouldn't even be called). For all Shaq's greatness, Shaq never averaged 50 points, 20 rebounds per game. Shot blocks and defensive all teams were created/introduced around the last of era. Wilt would probably average 70 points, 25 rebounds in this NBA era of less hand checking.
Same with Bill Russell, while not being the scoring Machine that Wilt was, Russell was just dominant in other areas. 20 rebounds also and would have made the defensive team at least 10 times (had they been introduced earlier in his era). Unofficial stats had both Wilt and Bill average 8 blocks per game (Wilt had 18 blocks his first game). Shaq wasn't much of a defender and this shows with only 2 2nd defensive all team trips. Wilt and Bill would have gotten more than 6 1st all teams and at least a defensive player of the year.
As much as I love the Cap and that he's my favorite Laker of all time, Kareem doesn't compare to either Wilt and Bill. Wilt was one of the few people who could actually block the sky hook. But in all other cases, the Cap was probably the greatest Laker, beating out Magic man for sure. The Captain did it all: score, rebound, pass, run the offense. Shaq so far isn't getting any votes for doing the same kind of things Kareem did in his late 30's. Kareem won the league MVP at age 38! Plus Kareem could make his free throws (70%) reasonably compared to other big men. Plus Cap was a great defender as well and will be an excellent tutor to young Andrew Bynum.
Kicking the crap out of Hakeem the Dream? In his prime Hakeem kicked the crap out of the Captain during his time with Ralph Sampson not to mentioning owning Shaq during the 1994-1995 NBA Finals. Hakeem unlike most other big men, could actually hang around with most guards in the perimeter and was an adept ball thief not to mention a big shot blocker. Shaq himself said of Hakeem ""Hakeem has five moves then four countermoves, that gives him 20 moves.". Hakeem may not be the power that Wilt was and didn't have the body of Shaq but no one else had the moves which made him one of the top 5 centers. He's also on of the few NBA players to actually get a quadruple double (18 points, 16 rebounds, 10 assists, 11 blocks) Hakeem simply owned Shaq, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson in the 90's.
I gave the slight edge for Moses over Shaq, since Moses's 76ers team was the only ones in the east until the coming of the Bad Boy Pistons to seriously challenge Larry Bird and the Celtics. Moses was about the same defender as Shaq but Moses was slightly better to win a 1st All Defensive team. Plus Moses could also score a bit from mid range and was just a beast in the post. Shaq would get my vote for number 6 but in a head to head playing in an era of handchecking and no flagrant fouls, Moses would win though barely considering Shaq's greatness.
There Top 5 centers. Shaq is deserving in Top 10 but against the Legends it's harder for him. All of these guys except for Bill could even score from mid range (yes Wilt had a jumper, he developed on to show he wasn't just a tall freak and could only score in the post). These guys have one thing that Shaq wasn't too great off: Defense. Phil even said to Shaq that if he concentrated more on Defense, he would be even more dominant (the legend big men were great defenders along with their offensive numbers). No Shaq then said to Phil "I've never been an defensive guy". Shaq had tons of potential for defense more than just 2 measly 2nd all defensive teams but I guess he just wanted to score/rebound more and try to Wilt which he isn't.
I don't diss Shaq's legacy and accomplishment though I do diss what Shaq is doing atm. Shaq couldn't hang around the top 4 centers of all time (one of them even owned him-Hakeem). Moses would be challenged by Shaq but Moses has more skills than Shaq does.
There that's why Shaq doesn't crack the top 5 (top 6 actually he made). Think and try to look at the legends first before remembering recent memory of what Shaq did for LA or for whoever. I respect Shaq for what he did for LA not to mention his accomplishments that will make him NBA Hall of Fame but simply put: Shaq couldn't carry Wilt and Bill's jockstrap. Only homers would say he would own most of these guys (Moses he could give a run for his money but Moses would beat him in the end) when 3 of them could have owned him and one of them, Hakeem the dream, already owned him.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 06, 2008 at 12:10 PM
professor gueco,
as always, you're the sound of reason. i wasn't referring to any blogger here as an "idiot".
i do, however, agree with shaq when he called some (underscore "some") LA fans "idiots".
i would too if i did good work for a bunch of people (shaq brining the championship back to LA) and having the very same people poop all over me when i leave.
it's a normal reaction. during my banishment, i'd still try and occasionally read (and post to) this blog and the common theme is that shaq's a bum.
kinda sad considering shaq was the last person mostly responsible for bringing a championship to LA. do you think guys like ron harper, rick fox and robert horry would join LA had shaq (and the opportunity to win championships) weren't in LA? they sure weren't here to play with baby kobe at 17-years of age.
i might have my bias against kobe, but alot of this blog has a bias against shaq which is a shame.
Posted by: KL | September 06, 2008 at 12:13 PM
"Wilt was just such a beast...how would you EVER stop that guy?? Well, Rusell did!! Not only one lucky tgime, but again and again."
For all of Russell's greatness, he had the better coach and the better supporting cast (though Russell showed without them he could still succeed). Give Wilt the same thing and Wilt would win.
And people forget that era of NBA was just physical. I mean the touch fouls of the NBA wouldn't even count then. To foul, a player had to actually hurt the opposing players.
http://tinyurl.com/5a99o5
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 06, 2008 at 12:20 PM
KL,
"do you think guys like ron harper, rick fox and robert horry would join LA had shaq (and the opportunity to win championships) weren't in LA? they sure weren't here to play with baby kobe at 17-years of age."
Actually, Horry was traded to the Lakers (as in, he didn't make the call one way or the other) and Harper didn't join the Lakers until a 21-year old Kobe was in his fourth season and undoubtedly at least "a" reason that Harper, at the tail end of his career and looking for more titles before retiring in 2001, thought this team could win it all. And honestly, Harper's relationship with Phil Jackson might have played a bigger reason to join the team than Shaq OR Kobe.
Seriously, man. I can't emphasize how much it would help you to do five minutes of research before posting. Or just own up to the fact that you're a Shaq fan who'll always bear a permanent grudge against Kobe because the two didn't get along, which is both your right to bear and will stop a lot of pointless discussion in its tracks.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 06, 2008 at 12:32 PM
KL,
I agree with AK on that it'd be easier for all of us if you just admitted that you were staunchly against Kobe and nothing would change your views, because I wouldn't even bother.
Are you really using Horry and Harper as examples? For one, those are role players, when the point you were making was that no stars (like Baron Davis and KG) were taking less money. And secondly, like AK said Horry was traded to the Lakers and Harper signed with the Lakers after PJ joined the Lakers when Kobe was 21 and among the best 2-guards in the league already.
You seriously haven't backed up any of your claims with one shred of legitimate, factual evidence. Everything you've said has been based on your own slanted view of everything Kobe. I'm not saying Kobe is perfect, he's not, but if you're going to make the claim that no star wants to play with Kobe say the same thing about other superstars because NO ONE is taking less money to play in Phoenix, Dallas, SA or anywhere else.
Unless you'd like your second stint on the blog to just be a PG version of your first and hang onto your schtick for dear life. Which is fine, but I'd think it'd be more enjoyable to have conversations dealing in fact and not cynicism. And that doesn't mean say 4 Hail Kobe's everyday, just say things you can actually back up and have a legitimate debate about.
Posted by: Xodus | September 06, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Seriously, man. I can't emphasize how much it would help you to do five minutes of research before posting. Or just own up to the fact that you're a Shaq fan who'll always bear a permanent grudge against Kobe because the two didn't get along, which is both your right to do and will also stop a lot of pointless discussion in its tracks.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 06, 2008 at 12:32 PM
OMG. How many slap around can a sane person take? Delightful!
Posted by: Lakergurl | September 06, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Aloha Blitz
I understand your point of view but my point with Kareem was he played in an era where there were a lot of quality centers his size. Wilt and Russell played a good portion of their carrears against six five centers. I still have Wilt and Russel 2 and 3 but I have to give Kareem the top spot for what he was able to accomplish against tougher competition.
MH
Posted by: michael h | September 06, 2008 at 01:07 PM
im sorry to everyone that i have to go off topic but i have a question for Mr. Kobebryantblitz
Thekobebryantblitz
There is someone on youtube that goes by the name of Bruce Blitz with several youtube accounts using "blitz" at the end. one of the youtube accounts being "thekobebryantblitz".
Is this you bruce? is this a poser? or just some dude who doesn't know?
Posted by: Kobe24clutch | September 06, 2008 at 06:25 PM
No clutch this not Bruce Blitz. I know that there was some confusion but this ain't Bruce.
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 06, 2008 at 07:22 PM
I see.. well thank you for answering.. its very strange.. he hasn't been on youtube in forever.. i was wondering if it may have been you
Posted by: Kobe24clutch | September 06, 2008 at 07:35 PM
5) Drew shines thanks to a new-found work ethic and Kobe grins, sensing a chance of approaching a championship.
Posted by: Tsphere | September 05, 2008 at 10:49 PM
===============================
Sorry Tsphere
But this is all revisionist history. I will comment mainly on point 5 but thee rest is wrong too.
Andrew Bynum was confident and yes cocky before he put on the Laker uniform and met PJ or Kobe.
Upon being drafted he said he wanted to be the best center and he even had the guts to diss Shaq when asked about him. He said at least he would make his free throws. He had the attitude from the start.
He also hired his trainer long before Kobe dissed him so it wasn't Kobe who motivated him. It was Andrew himself.
As for not playing great early that was PJs fault for not giving him pt or at least in PJs terms of letting him play and figure it out. Instead he constantly berated AB.
With thid in mind it throws your chain of events in whacked out sports.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | September 07, 2008 at 11:33 PM
KL,
>>>proof again this blog has a negative bias towards shaq
>>>and a positive bias towards kobe.
Faulty logic there, KL. Just because ONE BLOGGER didn't
include Shaq in their top 5 doesn't mean that the whole
blog has a bias against Shaq. It's just hyperbole on your
part.
>>>can you really tell me that shaq isn't top five? shaq,
>>>in this prime, would kick the crap out of 3 of the 5
>>>mentioned above.
I'd have to think about it, but I'd likely put Shaq in the top
5 of all time. I'd have a hard time putting him higher than
Kareem or Wilt or Russell though.
Kareem vs Shaq: strength means nothing against the
sky-hook. Kareem would score at will on Shaq. Shaq
would be able to muscle Kareem around a bit in the lane,
and would score okay too, but Kareem was an excellent
shot blocker, so it wouldn't be like he was out there playing
Chris Dudley or something. And when they fouled each
other, Kareem would make his free throws and Shaq would
miss his. Advantage goes to Kareem.
Russell vs Shaq: Bill Russell always managed to get the
best of centers that were bigger and stronger than him.
Sure, Wilt usually outscored Russell when they went
head to head, but it was always Russell winning the
championship. If Russell's skill could beat out Wilt's size
and strength, then it could beat out Shaq's size and
strength as well.
Wilt vs Shaq: clash of the titans. This is sheer size and
strength vs sheer size and strength. Not sure who would
win, but it certainly would be fun to watch. I think Wilt
would come out on top. Shaq never averaged 50 for a season, but the league was tougher in Shaq's prime than
in Wilt's prime.
As for ranking Mikan ahead of Shaq, that's just crazy talk.
Shaq would absolutely dominate Mikan.
As for the person who compared the PER stats and declared
Shaq the best, you're missing a point about the stats.
The NBA didn't start recording blocks and steals until the
1973-74 season and didn't start recording turnovers until
the 1977-78 season, and all three of those values go into
PER calculation. If you add blocks and steals to the PER
values for Wilt and Russell & Kareem's first 4 years in the
NBA, those guys (and maybe a couple of others) would
have higher career PER averages than Shaq.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | September 08, 2008 at 12:07 PM