KL,

I also tend to agree with you in that Shaq could have won a championship with any all star 2-guard from 2000-2002, but I'm not completely convinced that it would have been a three peat. Because, for better or worse, Kobe's ego and killer instict helped to completely demoralize that San Antonio team. I agree with you that we could have crushed any other WC (although, Utah also gave us all sorts of trouble) or EC team with Shaq's dominance but I'm not sure about San Antonio. We really needed Kobe in that one. He completely assasinated San Antonio and sapped all the energy out of TD (remember his face :)). It was also evident in this year's series: I really believe TD, Pop and San Antonio in general fear Kobe and Phil Jackson. That is one of the reasons why they couldn't hold on to their huge lead in the first game in this year's playoffs.

Why I'm putting forward Shaq's accomplisment is that, like you, I feel that he gets unfairly (his personal life not withstanding) slammed in this blog. He was a former Great Laker and the main reason for our ONLY three peat in Team's history. Instead, people are pushing an upstart and arrogant (I, for one, didn't like his trash talking - I can make the three frows - and his antics - pushing and shoving - after he managed to escape from Shaq's coverage and slam the ball: you should respect the former greats, especially if you haven't done anything yourself) AB and saying he is already greater than Shaq.

What many people fail to realise is that basketball is basically a big man's game. Only MJ has been able to create a durable exception to that rule. Therefore, I, like you, would have liked Kobe to lobby for Shaq's staying in LA instead of lobbying for his departure and making it a choice between the two. Although Kobe and Phill have now mended their relationship, PJ essentially said as much in his infamous book. Despite naysayers, I'm pretty sure they would have won at least 1-2 championships together and Shaq could have retired as a Laker.

And the people who are saying that it is Shaq who alienates his former guards are not really correct - It is only Kobe who has a problem with Shaq. It was Shaq who lobbied in order Penny to come out of his retirement and play for Miami Heat last year (didn't really work out, but I, for one, appreciated the effort by Shaq). As to Dwade, as recently as last week, he said in some show that he really appreciated Shaq and their time together and he didn't have any negative experience with him despite all the media ramblings. Shaq's problem has been more with team managements (Orlando and LA didn't pay as much as he wanted and Miami couldn't give him a competitive team any more) And, for what it's worth, Shaq has apologized to Chris Quinn and to Ricky Davis. I don't recall Kobe doing the same to AB or the team in general after his pouting last year.

I really hope that all this arrogance and beat down of the former Laker Great will not undermine the future of the franchise. Maybe it is a Laker Way to be extremely arrogant and still win. I'm more of an old school and prefer more humble and "fire within" characters. Still, as our all-time finals record suggest (especially then compared to that of the archrival Celtic), maybe some humility and respect wouldn't really hurt.

Finally, to silence some of the critics, I agree that Shaq has made some really bad decisions. But this shouldn't diminsih his legacy with the NBA or Lakers. What you maybe fail to understand is that by slamming Shaq, you are basically slamming the Lakers because most of the NBA (other than Lakers fans) fans and even players still associate Shaq with the Lakers. And they are delighted to see this saga going on because they think (and rightfully so) that it will only weaken the Lakers they have to face. For a better exemple, look at the today's ESPN NBA frontpage where some top rookies are given an advice by experts. And you know what - first-placed rookie Greg Oden has been given an advice to look lots of tape about Shaq's rookie year in order to learn the transition and power game and in order not to be in foul trouble. I really would like Shaq to give advice in some form or another to AB. But the latter has chosen a direct confrontation and self-praise path. If he manages to pull it of and become more dominant than Shaq, more power to him Otherwise, it is a mistake.

Vaasa

KL & Vassa

It's become a widely remembered and accepted meme that Shaq was batman and Kobe was Robin however I feel it is generous to Shaq.The way things were seen at the time had them seen as 'the two best players in the league' it wasn't your normal situation at all.

Its been remembered differently from how it was for three main reasons

1) favourable media coverage for Shaq while Kobe was in disgrace after the break-up and a bad season while shaq did well.However Kobe's ascent to being seen as the games best player,the lakers finals run,and the fact that nobodies quite sure if the Olympic team would have beaten Spain without him does change the look of this somewhat.Its clear he's got aspects to him that your average 'great player' doesn't

2) Shaq winning the finals MVP awards even though it made sense he would dominate the smaller and significantly weaker Eastern conference finals opposition and you could actually make a reasonable case for Kobe to be MVP of most of the western conference series's.

3) We are so used to having comfortable boxes in terms of team hierachy that we have to revert to this in hindsight and forget how unique the situation was with these guys at the time.Thats WHY there was trouble between these guys.They both knew what the other brought.You think anyone knew for a second it wasn't Jordans team? theres weaknesses in Shaqs leadership right there.Why the insecurity?

In reality both of these guys were imperfect leaders and it took the combination to give the lakers what they needed.Shaq lacked the tenacity of the Magic,Bird,Isiah,Hakeem and Jordan and for this reason is lucky to be remembered in the same class as these players when Kobe plugged alot of gaps.

Shaq was also a liability in crunch time...they couldnt give him the ball...Kobe adopted alot of those responsibilities and has become known for his game breaking play to a level of any of the above players.
Shaq is lucky to be held in the same esteem as those guys with no asterix beside those titles.

I'm not trying to argue that Kobe was Batman and shaq was Robin but I'm saying that Kobe was at least ROBIN PLUS and Shaq was at least BATMAN MINUS...Kobe clearly covered alot of Shaqs weaknesses.In reality it was the combination of the two of them.Go back and watch some of those playoff games and you'll see how it's been forgotten how good Kobe actually was and how big some of his plays were.

As for putting any other two guard with Shaq and watching it happen? I dont buy it...none of those guys from that era has shown that they're up to much while Kobe has since clearly showed himself to posess certain qualities that very few players in the history of the game have ever shown.

If you are going to reward shaqs unique qualities I think you've got to acknowledge that Kobe has pretty unique stuff going on too.Theres no more of an argument there than putting Garnett or Duncan with Kobe.Two guys who actually have rings unlike Carter and Mcgrady.In fact theres probbaly a better argument that a Duncan/Kobe team does better than Shaq/McGrady team but who knows? unlike you guys I wouldnt state it as fact.What I will say is that in '98 Shaq had not one but TWO all star guards on his team.Look it up.This is one of the problems everyone is so busy assuming why Kobe was Robin that they fail to look for one second at reasons why Shaq might not be Batman.In reality theres lots of them.I could write pages on this.

To quote you KL

'I think if you replace kobe with penny or any other decent 2 guard during the 2000-2002 lakers, the lakers could have won it all.'

The emphasis here is on the word 'could' There are always several teams who 'could' win but the winning is in the winning.You forget how close some of these games are or how delicate the chemistry....Drexler could a done it,Barkley too,malone and Stockton? Patrick Ewing? It just never happened...and it wasn't soley becasue of MJ (another meme) History if full of great teams that for whatever reason just never got it done.

Kobe's now considered one of the premier closers in the history of the game and was at the time - whats that then? a coincidence?

I think its ridiculous ,given what they accomplished, that either of them have to have an asterix beside those titles but we have to accept that in historys eyes Kobe does.But shaq has gotten off lightly if he's going to be considered in the same class as those other greats I mentioned because he was clearly lacking in certain areas.They just happened to be the very areas Kobe excelled.

The cup is back where it belongs!

GO USA!

nemaia

"No doubt you'll probably respond in some way and say something about Kobe, but I could care less. Thanks for the laughs and welcome back old friend. Hulk smash!!! Nuff said."

to be honest, i've actually softened up on kobe. last season was a very big step forward for mr. kobe. i'll come full circle if kobe can lead a laker team to a championship.

Hey vassa...did you watch game 7 against Portland in 2000?

You could have counted on any other all star two guard to come though the way Kobe did in the fouth quater? i'd put my money on that too LOL!!!!

Kobe had 25 points,11 rebounds 7 assists, 4 blocks,and 2 turnovers...I know statistics aren't everything...but he led the 4th quater comeback and hit shots that gave the lakers a 2 pt lead, then a 4 pt lead then lobbed to shaq to ice it.
thats Jordan stuff...you might as well say that Vince carter could have pulled off the flu game in utah too

So thats two titles they 'needed' him for wouldnt you say?

KL,
Hard work ALWAYS pays off!

Posted by: Mrs. Blah | September 21, 2008 at 10:37 AM

SO THE DOG WHO WORKS HARD CHASING HIS TAIL "PAYS OFF"?

what about the office dorks who work like mad doing grunt work, but doesn't take a moment to consider a more efficient way to problem solve?

your absolutism "always" is a tell on your maturity (or lack thereof).

Kiwi,

You have a sound argument there and I also felt that Kobe was a perfect combo guard to cover Shaq's weaknesses.

However, I think what Shaq lacked in three throw shooting and in finesse, he compensated it in power and sheer physical dominance (That's why his rapid decline because he doesn't really have a finesse game). There has been only one player similar to Shaq before and it was Wilt. And he, too, had a problem with free throws :)

And if you read my post carefully, you'll notice that I said that Shaq would have one some (one or two) chamionships but probably not a three-peat without Kobe. It was rightfully Kobe who destroyed those San Antonio teams (real finals, actually) because Duncan and Shaq played roughly even. I'm not sure that either Penny or McGrady could have pulled that off. They just don't have it as you say.

And actually Shaq won a chamionship with all-star 2-guard: Wade. I know that you are going to say that it was Wade who won it. But as you make the case for Kobe for being an actual MVP for WC playoffs in those chamionships years, the same could be said about Shaq in the Eastern Conference Playoffs. Most experts agreed at the time that it was because of him that Miami beat Chicago and gutted it out with Pistons (if I remember right, Wade was somewhat sick in the last game with the Pistons and Shaq turned in a throw-back performance to crash them) . In chamionship round with Dallas, Shaq really couldn't get it going (as Kobe in all his finals but one). Thus all the glory and MVP and praise to DWade. But the truth is that he would not even have gotten thus far without Shaq as was the case with Shaq and Kobe. And in Miami, Shaq was really in his last legs.

So you see, the case could be made that Shaq can win chamionships with another two-guard and be the leader of a team. Imagine Shaq and Wade in their primes. Maybe not a three peat but a couple of chamionships would be highly probable (As you rightfully say, you never know - And who knows what could have happened if Lakers hadn't made that comeback with Portland in 2000...)

As you point out Shaq's weaknesses, I tend to agree with you. But in my opinion, Kobe's character isn't really comparable to that of the grand champions either. He always has come off as immature and self-obsessed. If you don't believe me, read PJ book about the last season. I don't think that anybody hold a gun to his head to write all that (especially considering that Shaq was gone and he was retiring). He just called it as he saw it, and to him it was mostly Kobe who ruined the team chemistry and undermined Shaq's leadership. Having coached MJ, he could make a direct comparison with Kobe and it wasn't really favorable to the latter. As many NBA players and coaches have said (most recently Ray Allen), you never alienate your all star big man, especially someone who is all time great. Of course, if you are not MJ :).

So you see, alll your points are equally relative and two-way arguments. And I, as you, think that Kobe was the perfect teammate for Shaq as Shaq was the perfect teammate for Kobe. That's why I was really sad to see it break up and the dynasty to end.

And only history will tell if Kobe or Dwade will win another championship as a lead guy. Until then it will be an endless debate.

Vaasa

Vaasa,

You're either good at missing vital news information or you have very selective reasoning.

While Shaq did lobby to get Penny to come back to the Heat, he also had a lot of negative things to say about him after he was no longer a teammate.

And Kobe did apologize to AB and to team management for the video that a random person recording and then published without letting him know. Kobe did so privately.

That's a lot different than Shaq who uses the media to explicitly disrespect people, including Kobe as recently as a couple of months ago after they supposedly were cool with each other.

Other than that, I think your comments and observations are on point.

Kiwi, thanks for your reply and analysis, I always appreciate it.

"Hey vassa...did you watch game 7 against Portland in 2000?

You could have counted on any other all star two guard to come through the way Kobe did in the fourth quater? i'd put my money on that too LOL!!!!

Kobe had 25 points,11 rebounds 7 assists, 4 blocks,and 2 turnovers...I know statistics aren't everything...but he led the 4th quater comeback and hit shots that gave the lakers a 2 pt lead, then a 4 pt lead then lobbed to shaq to ice it.
thats Jordan stuff...you might as well say that Vince carter could have pulled off the flu game in utah too

So thats two titles they 'needed' him for wouldnt you say?"

It was an incredible performance by Kobe. I remember being litterally in heaven after this game. And you are right, without Kobe, who knows what could have happened. However, there are so many variables in the game, so it is difficult to say how it would have gone with another all star combo guard.

Take DWade for example. He is incredible in his own way and I couldn't say that he couldn't have pulled it off in his prime (of course it is hypothetical because he wasn't even in the league at the time :)). Many analysts contend that it was him and not Kobe the real MVP in the finals of Beijing games.

The same goes with Lebron, if you have him as a swingman (remember the game 7 in this year's semifinals with the Celtics - Kobe could never manage to put such a scare in Boston's team although the coverage they used was pretty much the same to the one they used with Kobe) So this would be again another endless argument :) Woulda, coulda, shoulda :).

And don't get me wrong, I was a really big Kobe fan and I haven't become his hater either. It is just that he had a bigger part to play in all this turmoil than most people realise (remember the last year's pout that showed a litlle bit his inner character - if it had been Shaq, he would have been murdered by all sorts of commentators, because nobody really feels sorry for a Goliath. But in Kobe's case, it was blamed to his "uber-competitive spirit that really makes me laugh).

Ok, take care Kiwi and thanks for your post

Vaasa

SO THE DOG WHO WORKS HARD CHASING HIS TAIL "PAYS OFF"?- perhaps if and when he does catch up to his tail, in his own small doggy mind he feels like his hard work did pay off.

Didn't anyone ever tell you to look on the bright side?

Peace

Kiwi, KL, Benjamin,

Thanks for the good dicussion and props. Until next time.

"
Kiwi said:
Anyway no problem.I used to enjoy sparring with you but it appears you've lost your touch so I wont bother in the future.Might be time to find a new hobby KL.You've lost your credibility here as a villan with any edge.Your washed up,take a seat on the Suns bench pal... right beside your buddy Shaq.You can reminisce about the glory days when you were both relevant.
peace".

I hope it is a joke, Kiwi. Otherwise it is not very funny because one can find flaws in your arguments as well as in KL's. Nobody is perfect. Ok, peace

alright time to stop enjoying my little break write.

Since this blog has deviated off about the possible Kobe leaving to Europe and degenerated into the Shaq-Kobe things let me clear a few things up.

Shaq and Kobe team was one of the best in NBA history, maybe not as good as Jordan and Pippen but in my opinion better than Robinson and Duncan. Shaq did his part and Kobe did his. Shaq was the leader of the 3 peat although Kobe almost played almost the lead role in the 3rd championship. That being said, the argument that KL is giving that Shaq if the offense was being directed him in 2002-2003 would have resulted in another championship. While is a good speculation, it certainly didn't happen. Shaq was injured and needed time to recover for the playoffs. The offense flowed into Kobe and as a result Kobe had his best statistical season with a 30ppg 7 rebounds 6 assists (Should have really been more considered MVP that year though Duncan still was a good choice). In the playoffs Kobe produced again 32 ppg 5 rpg, 5 apg but Phil's surgery (anyone remember that?) combined with Robinson guarding Shaq (so Duncan had an easier time scoring over Horry) and the Horry miss in Game 5 doomed the Lakers.

Next year Shaq wanted to assert himself but because of injuries plus the need to satisfy Gary Payton (only Karl Malone had no problems with not being the go to guy) both Shaq and Kobe's production at scoring went off from the previous year (Shaq from 27ppg to 21ppg and Kobe from 30ppg to 24ppg). The Lakers did make it to the Finals but because of Shaq and Kobe's previous fighting (BOTH were at fault), Gary Payton's poor defense of Chauncey Billups, and a severely injured Karl Malone (which allowed Rasheed to go off in Game 4) doomed the Lakers.

Now enough of History. The thing that really is interesting is that the debate about Shaq when 1) Shaq isn't even with the Lakers anymore and 2) Shaq is in fact with division rival Phoenix Suns and 3) That we are even discussing Shaq and KL aare complaining no one gives Shaq his due when NOT ONE of the bloggers didn't give Shaq credit! (That is kind of amusing, I would imagine this kind of debate also being in the Heat blogs).

Let me clear this up since at this point all the Shaq debates is on one hand very silly to the point is kinda laugable and on the other hand just plain too silly to even debate (Shaq and Kobe would say it is even silly to debate).

Neither Jon K, Laker Tom, Edwin, Rick F, LTLF, nor even Hobbit ever dissed Shaq and compared Bynum to Shaq. Don't try to say "You guys compare". No, the best comparison that Andrew here had was David Robinson and no one except for Spurs fans perhaps would say Robinson was better than Shaq. So there goes that argument. Shaq has his place in history and no one can deny that. Will there always be criticisms of him, of course just as there is for Wilt, Bill, Jordan, and even Hakeem. Wilt couldn't win more than 2 tittles, Bill had a great coach (even though he won without Red TWICE), Jordan had Pippen, Hakeem needed a sidekick (Hakeem got the first one without Clyde the Glyde).

This blog is about the Lakers and while we give thanks for Shaq for the enormous contributions he did, we also focus more on the people on the current Lakers such as Kobe, Pau, Andrew, and the rest of the gang. As a Dodger fan, while I give thanks to Fernando Venezuala and Kirk Gibson for the last title 1988, I certainly don't brood about them. Why does it seem this blog is Pro-Kobe? Simple because Kobe is on the Lakers and the blog is just as pro Kobe as the Heat blogs are Pro-Wade and Cavaliers blogs are Pro-James. Some advice: focus on next season and really should stop this who is better Shaq or Kobe or even Shaq was the best Kobe ranks this and that kind of crap. It's simply not healthy. Will Kobe rank being better than Shaq? Probably not. Will Kobe have the better career achievements than Shaq? Can't say, he's still in his prime and the current Laker team looks to be great. Fact is: Stop focusing on Shaq and just be focused more on the 2008-2009 Season.

-blitz

Vassa I commend you on your writing and pleasant approach.

Regarding Wade...well to start with you're taking a guy from a different era... not the same era where you and KL agreed that any all star guard could get it done to the tune of at least one title.But in wade,in my opinion, you are taking the best shooting guard other than MJ and Kobe for quite some time.

Put '02 Kobe with Dwight Howard and see what happens...and you didnt say anything regarding what '02 Kobe would have done with Duncan or Garnett but give him a dominant big man and i'll show you a contending basketball team.

The Heat mortgaged their future for Shaq becasue they KNEW they had the 'Kobe' formula to put with Shaq....it wasnt just a case of Shaq ending up on a team with another all star guard who could kind of play... Wade is the real deal and no guard in that three peat era could have got Shaq even 1 championship.He played with two all star calibre guards for years and got nowhere.championships just arent that easy to win.

I dont begrudge shaqs contributions to those Miami teams but I do think they were more stacked than the lakers championship teams.I also think they were lucky in the matchups they got that year.But a champion is a champion and Wade had an unbelievable finals series and Shaq had grown a bit by then as a leader same as Kobe has now.

Shaqs a great player...I'm not saying he wouldn't have any championships but I am saying its a heck of a thing to assume and you certainly couldnt just put any guy there. So you've got the one other guy outside of that era that can really get it done then great...but it works both ways.

if you are going to argue that shaqs proved himself after the divorce then I think you've got to acknowledge that Kobe has too...confirming that he's the games best player and most feared clutch shooter.(two labels he had during the 3 peat years as well)

Theres no escaping the fact that shaq needs another consistently clutch player that can carry the team for long stretches and close out the game and to do that as well as Kobe (or Wade) is about as rare as a legitimately good centre.But to be unable to be counted on in cruch time brings him down a level from the truly great centres.

It's one thing to look at all the stuff that was irreplaceable about Shaq without looking at what was irreplaceable about Kobe...so they found a great partner for Shaq afterwards but NO All star shooting guard could have necessarily won them even one championship.I just dont think you can say that.Take that portland game for example - Kobe's D was off the charts

Wade had a great first half of the Olympic final but Kobe took over the game when it mattered...and thats what the coaches told him to do.

and regarding Phil jackson? he loses credibility for even writing that book.Ive never said Kobe was an angel but to be in a position of trust and spill the beans on a guy going through an unfathomable experience is just plain wrong...Phil just wanted to justify why he got given such a great team and couldnt win....and there was a whole heap of context regarding Shaq and Kobe from previous years that didnt feature in the book...I'm sure Kobe was a knob but shaqs also shown himself to be one too.I always held Shaq more responsible anyway...he was older and should have been able to sacrifice his ego for the sake of the team.But yeah fair enough Kobe was shocking that year but Phil clealry ahd an axe to grind and to me it says something about Kobe that he's been able to mend his relationhships with both Phil and his wife.

i do honestly think you are taking it far too lightly what Kobe contributed to those teams.You cant just put shaq anywhere and he wins.I just dont believe he proved that..the conditions have to be right...and in LA and Miami they were right.Its cool though...you're a great blogger.

Vassa nicely said to the blitz - of course we can discuss what we like.

regarding KL....now I dont know how long you've been around but KL has created himself a persona on the blog which is that of a villan.He's got to be on his game all the time and if he's going to put in so little effort then he's gonna hear about it.i'm sorry if that offends you but this is a guy who did nearly a years hard time in lakersblog purgatory.He can take it.

And my arguments are not flawed...

hobbitimage,

I wouldn't trade for Wade, he's going to injure a teammate one day as the teammate reaches down to help Wade off the floor....It's no wonder that he endorses for McDavid, their HEXPAD line of padding and protection....accident waiting to happen, again....we've already had our injury year, why do it again????

Blitz...

ive got no problem with KL - absolutely none...he has however in the past enjoyed winding people up no end and enjoyed his nasty 'image' - He mustve upset someone to receive such a banishment from the powers that be but he's usually pretty entertaining and gives some good arguments.. ...he mailed it in that time tho.

cheers!

Nemaia Faletogo, well said.

Haters are gonna hate, no matter how.

Just enjoy their silly comments and laugh at the clowns.

In other news,

Training camp starts in 8 days (assuming this post is posted on Monday). We can be certain that sometime this week that Lakers Media Day and finally some real news for the Lakers and less speculation.

-blitz

And one last post for tonight.

http://tinyurl.com/3lsjbv

Something to keep the mind rolling Laker wise.

Key points:
1) Looks like Sun was going to join Marc Gasol in the Gasol-Brown deal but at least Mitch managed to keep him away from the Grizzlies who are in serious rebuilding mode.

2) Looks like Sun has his US Visa but doesn't have a license. Hope he doesn't mind the long lines at LAX and whoever is driving him around LA PLEASE don't mind the 105, 405, 10, 110 or the 210, it's really annoying but hey not everyone can use a helicopter.

3) Kobe gives him props. That's always a good thing.

4) If driving down the 405 during Rush Hour was bad, try going through the process of just getting clearance to even try to sign Sun. The easiest part is getting to sign the contract? That's a first.

5) Mitch is right, the competition will be tough once he faces the quality of the competition. Owning the ABA is one thing against players who aren't on par with the people in D-League, going against players like D-Will, CP3 is much different though he did go against them in the Olympics so some experience there.

6) His nickname is Q-Tip. Very ambiguous. Maybe Sun Wukong (Monkey King) is better.

and 7) He may have been in LA before but now he got a contract he should get that driving license as soon as possible (like Pau did). Then he can enjoy LA more instead of Long Beach in places like USC owning the Buck Eyes or the Bruins who couldn't even score offensively (just wait for bball season Jon K. that's where the Bruins rock).

Good night.

-blitz

"

So next year, what type of contract are we looking at with Kobe? I pressume a max contract. But what would be the price range/years? and could the lakers afford him?

Go Lakers

Posted by: TrueLakerFan | September 19, 2008 at 05:27 PM"

Here is the perfect question.

If Kobe really wants to solidify his Legacy and legend he should re-sign with the Lakers and take a pay cut. Then state that he is interested in ensuring that the Lakers are in place to be competitive in the future. This would be a far greater move then going to Europe.

LakerTom

>>>I have a hunch that Kobe will opt out of his contract and
>>>sign a new long-term contract to be a Laker for Life for
>>>less than the max in order to help the Lakers keep the
>>>team together.

For once we are in complete agreement about a contract. I
think that's exactly what Kobe will do. I think Kobe would
be willing to accept something like 20 million per over 5
if that leaves enough space to keep Pau, Lamar, Bynum,
Farmar, and the Machine on the team. He knows they
have something special going right now and the longer
they stay together, the better they'll be.

What's up Lakerville! It's almost training camp time.

Quote of the Day:
And then you'll have to come up with a new line of complaint against Kobe.

Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | September 22, 2008 at 10:29 AM

Aloha Mike,

“Eddie Jones was not decent?”

Jones was good defensively, but not like a Penny, Wade or Young Kobe. I get your point nevertheless.

“If you recall Shaq was taking a lot of heat for not winning it all in L.A and then Kobe matures into a super star and Da DA!! Three peat.”

I’m not sure if it was solely kobe “maturing” rather guys around the league joining the shaq bandwagon. I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember.

“Michael Jordon couldnt do it until the Bulls added another super star in Pippin. The Spurs did it with a dominate Duncan and 2 other all stars. Detroit had 5 all stars. But somehow you always contend that Kobe was suppose to do it alone, why?”

I’ve never said that shaq did it alone. Shaq was the #1 and kobe was the #2. I’ve had a problem with this blog trying to re-write history by saying shaq and kobe were equals. That is simply not true. The offense ran through shaq, not kobe. In 2003 and 2004, kobe tried to take the #1 from shaq which caused the “feud” and my resentment towards kobe.

“Would you concede that San Antonio and Boston play a little better defense then Denver?”

Without a doubt. My point is that I would have like to see someone shine like Jordan making a name of guys like BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr and Jimbo/Johnny Paxon. Hell, shaq made a name for Kobe before kobe became the air apparent. Granted, kobe was on his way anyway, but playing next to shaq and in LA elevated kobe’s status which kobe pooped all over by talking smack about shaq and smack about the lakers. In spite of this, LA fans (more specifically, kobe fans) still blindly support kob. Go figure.

“See we now have a very good team. Kobe led us to the finals, rather easily I might add.”

Kobe compared himself to Jordan. Jordan won each and every finals as the #1 guy. Kobe is 0 for 1 as the #1 guy. Shaq is 3 for 3 as the #1 guy and 1 for 1 as the #2 guy. To be continued.

“Now I am very optimistic about this year.”

Me too as long as kobe remembers how he made it back to the finals. I hope kobe learns to elevate other’s game and not just his own.

I sincerely enjoy the chat. Mahalo.

Hey all..New to this blog, but glad I found it. Quick question for KL

I was wondering if the way Kobe conducted himself on and as importantly off the court in Beijing helped curve your opinion of his charecter at all.

I've been a Kobe fan since the McDonald's All American game, but his off the court antics made it difficult to defend him sometimes. But when I saw the way he acted at the Olympics, it really showed me a lot about his maturation process and how far he has come. Just wondering if you felt the same at all.
Cheers,
Tom