Dilbeck on Kobe and Europe

BK,

"Should it happen, though, it won't enhance his basketball legacy, only his wallet."

You are absolutely correct, sir.

GO LAKERS!

Hey butler in case you were wondering when to accept the Shaq trade as an official failure heres a few warning signs to watch out for...

1)Shaq accuses Steve nash of being selfish and 'not playing within the offense'

2)Following an early december pre xmas team get together at Steve Nash's house,Steves 2005 MVP award mysteriously disapears...

3)Shaq calls Eric Piatowski 'the best forward I ever played with'

4)Shaq demands a trade to the lakers stating that he realises Kobe makes a pretty good second banana after all

5)Alternatively Shaq demands the suns trade Nash for Luke Walton - who he describes as 'a guy who can get me the ball'

6)Shaq rugby tackles Dwight Howard mumbling something about superman and how he led Orlando to the finals in his third year

7)Shaq screams at Colangelo during a pre-season game demanding a massive contract extension


8)Shaq discusses candidly his admiration for Boris Diaws work ethic

9)Shaq receives a restraining order against the suns statistician for allegedly sending an email threatening to destroy his career with a graphic image attatched after the statistician refused to give Shaq the password to the 'Suns Personal Statistics page

10) Shaq starts referring to amare Stoudemire as his 'little brother'

Oh Darius Miles! You old scamp!

http://tinyurl.com/4k7279

Good thing he's not a Laker or a Clipper.

GO LAKERS!

After 20 seasons, all with the Lakers, Kobe will retire at the age of 38 after passing Kareem on the all-time scoring list.

The word has been spoken. Amen.

I have to agree with the guy that Kobe is a prime candidate...I do believe his legacy is important to him however ,and therefore such a move is unlikely.I dont belive such talk will hurt the big NBA stars ability to get decent money from their employers though.

One thing though...when you look at Michael Jordan you can't help but wonder exactly how many championships he could have mustered had he not retired the first time...and had the bulls not been broken up prematurely in 1998.

However then I get to thinking that maybe a big reason he was able to accomplish what he did was the break... (he retired citing burnout) Kobe is going to give a good amount of service to this league and he's already been doing it a long time...would a year out playing basketball but with less games and easier competition in a different environment not rejuvinate him to some extent?

I think overall the costs on him would be too high for him to make such a move in his prime not to mention the risks associated with returning to the NBA regarding competing at the same level...however I do see him pulling a david Beckham when he's in noticeable decline particularly if theres no championships on the horizon.However i'm not sure a year out would harm him at all but with the lakers now annual contenders I cant see him wanting to miss out.

kobe ain't going to Europe to play ball and if he does before bringing LA a championship, it'll only add fuel to my position that kobe is way overrated and hasn't really done anything without shaq.

LTLF, thank you for the posts on the last thread.

This is absurd. Kobe is about as far from the "perfect" candidate to go Europe as there is in the NBA. The Euro option is "perfect" for players whose talent level isn't high enough to command a fat NBA salary, but who can take that limited talent to Europe and dominate the weaker competition over their, and earn a far higher salary as a result. In other words, Josh Childress.

Kobe isn't a whore. He isn't going to leave just to make more money when he will make far more than he could ever need or use playing here in the US and winning championships in the only league that matters. Money aside, what exactly did David Beckham accomplish by coming the US? Even if he leads some obscure Euro team to some obscure Euro league championship, exactly what does that do for his resume? Nada.

This is a stupid article that is trying to make a little noise in what is now a period of relative silience of the basketball media.

repost

LTLF,

first off, thank you for all of the feedback.

i'll respond to the one i find most interesting.

"So are you denying that the Celtics threw 3 or 4 guys
at Kobe every time he touched the ball? Did you
actually watch the finals? Kobe didn't say "my teammates
sucked", he just pointed out the truth -- that the Celtics
threw multiple guys on him on defense."

the reason i'm so hard on kobe is that kobe compares himself to jordan which displays kobe's arrogance (not the same as confidence). note, i'm not saying fans compare kobe to jordan which is entirely different.

i've always believed the reason kobe is disliked my some (perhaps most) is his arrogance.

as far as the celtics throwing "3-4" guys at him, that's not true. if that were true, then there would have been a 4-1 break the entire series, right?

the C's played solid "team" defense and kobe's responsibility was to make plays for himself and his teammates, like shaq did during those championship years. 2004 doesn't count because kobe was trying way too hard to be the proverbial “man”.

back to the jordan versus kobe comparison (not much of a comparison because Jordan far exceeds what kobe can ever do). jordan had "3-4" guys thrown at him all the time and the Bulls still won each and every year when jordan was playing in the finals.

jordan didn't make excuses that they were throwing "3-4" guys at him. didn't kobe make a comment like "i get score at will" against the spurs? why make comments like that? just score at will and win the game.

i still don't like kobe albeit not as much as before.

puddle

"After 20 seasons, all with the Lakers, Kobe will retire at the age of 38 after passing Kareem on the all-time scoring list."

....and kobe ends up winning 3 titles playing robin to Shaqman (get it? Batman?).

whoop-dee-doo!!

i still think kobe's a fool and a pretentious.

i'll add a very, very rich fool and a very, very good basektball player.

haha

I don't think kobey should go to Europe. Instead of always getting spanked by D'ANTONI in the NBA playoffs, kobey will be going to play where D'ANTONI is a God whose legacy and accomplishments kobey cannot hope to match, much less surpass.

It'll be like what he faces here with all the MJ and D-Wade comparisons, but much tougher.

Best for the kid to stay in LA and save himself the embarrassment.

Kiwi sez:

"Hey butler in case you were wondering when to accept the Shaq trade as an official failure heres a few warning signs to watch out for..."

Pretty good! Although colangelo is no longer the owner.

Here's what I can add:

Top signs the Shack trade was an official failure for the lakers:

1) Continued streak of no more rings since Shack's departure
2) Shack and Nash eliminate the lakers from the playoffs in 2009
3) bynum and odum get traded for marc gasol

Wait.

Get paid $30 million US Dollars (I know $50 million was the speculation), Tax Free, play way less games per season, become part owner and to live in a nice part of Europe as I come into my 30's.

That should be a tough one...

"Kobe isn't a whore."

Well knee surgeries unknown to Team Officials in Colorado changed that.

Drum crash please...

PRESS RELEASE
Posted by the Associated Press
Reported in the Boston Herald, September 18, 2008

Paul Pierce was carried from a local Boston eatery late this afternoon, reportedly complaining of severe stomach pains. The tall, red-headed man carrying him was later identified as backup center, Brian Scalabrine. The 6'9" Scalabrine is well-known for his ability to carry Pierce, a talent first recognized when the powerful center carried Pierce from game 1 of the 2008 NBA Finals after Pierce suffered a mysterious knee injury.

"I never knew that I had the strength to carry Paulie," Scalabrine told reporters. "Until that fateful day in June, I wasn't sure what my purpose in life really was. Now I carry Mr. Pierce everywhere, and I love it."

Pierce was back on his own two feet moments later, and told reporters that "the pain was pretty severe, but I think I can push through until dinnertime. I had the surf and turf plate for lunch, and I think the shrimp might have upset my tummy. But that's why I have Brian here. He's my man."

Scalabrine, whose chest was soaking wet from Pierce's tears, smiled and waved at the growing Bostonian crowd. "People have been asking me for my autograph. This is awesome," he told reporters.

###

bK,

you wrote: Should it happen, though, it won't enhance his basketball legacy, only his wallet.

my response: I actually disagree with you.

1st. It's *never* been done before.
2nd. NBA champion. European champion. Olympic Champion. 2 scoring titles. 1 mvp. That's 3 different
types of championship.
3. It actually would increase the level of basketball
over there. It could act as a funnel to the NBA. Play
for Kobe's team. Mitch comes to 3 games a year as a
scout for the Lakers.

You can make the argument that the NBA is a better
but wasn't it Spain playing team USA in the Olympic
finals and hanging around until the 2 min. mark?

Wasn't it Team USA { NBA } who got schooled by
Greece a couple of years ago? Did Greece have
*any* NBA players?

You can also make the argument that as a whole,
europe has better basketball fundamentals then
the NBA. i.e. We play a more 1-on-1 style.

Would the Clippers have beaten Spain? No. Would the
Miami Heat have beaten Spain? No. Kings? Suns? Bucks?

Just my 2 cents.

Wouldn't be a 4-1 break cuz it would happen in the half court.

No one threw 3-4 at jordan because the rules were different, no zone.

not saying kobe is better, just pointing out your argument, yet again, makes little sense.

Outlaw,
Danny Ainge didn't run in from the next room with a wheelchair?

jandro

"Wouldn't be a 4-1 break cuz it would happen in the half court."

i was being facetious. kobe made a ridiculous statement, so I made one in kind. I didn’t see the C’s throw 3-4 guys on kobe. I saw the “team” help on defense (which is what team defenses are suppose to do), then I saw kobe jack up a bad shots after bad shots. Also, if the C’s were throwing 3-4 guys at kobe, there should have been plenty of 15-17 foot shots for the “other guys”, right?

“No one threw 3-4 at jordan because the rules were different, no zone.”

No zone, but there was still double team. Don’t’ make excuses for kobe. Also, I didn’t see the C’s play zone defense all that much (if at all).

“not saying kobe is better, just pointing out your argument, yet again, makes little sense.”

Love you bro. I’m glad we can have a civilized discussion. Actually, kobe might be a better individual player than Jordan, but that’s not my point. I’ve always said that b-ball is a team sport at the end of the day. Good chat old friend. (“friend” is meant jokingly poking fun at myself).

KL,

I can appreciate that you don't like Kobe. Yeah, I've read all of your anti-Kobe posts. No worries. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But some of your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired. 4-1 break? Do you play basketball? Do you study the game of basketball? That's simply not how it works. And, yes, the Celtics loaded up their defense on Kobe, and the Lakers did a poor job of adjusting.

You also state that Kobe compares himself with Jordan. That's just not the case. Kobe shrugs off comparisons. In a recent interview, Kobe made it a point to say, "Why? Why? I'm not Jordan. I'm Kobe. We're totally different players." He also mentioned, on more than one occasion, that it is an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence as MJ. Arrogance? No, man. That's just not it. Kobe is cocky, but most highly skilled athletes are. That's part of what it takes to be great. You HAVE to know that you're better than the guy guarding you. Think Jordan didn't know it? Think again.

I know you don't like Kobe. Fine. But you continuously misrepresent his character, and that's not okay. You don't know him. And neither do I. But I love to watch him play the game of basketball, more than any other player. And I believe that Kobe has matured gracefully. Believe it or not, people DO change. Come on. Look at you. You're back on the blog, right?

Go Lake Show!

So next year, what type of contract are we looking at with Kobe? I pressume a max contract. But what would be the price range/years? and could the lakers afford him?

Go Lakers

Who do you guys think you are saying if Kobe does this then he's that and so on and so forth. Wow KL--I see you've returned from the rock under which you were hiding for Kobe's entire MVP season. I wonder what does that make you? Wow you are so hard on kobe, yah, you are HARD on kobe alright---hope you're smart enough to figure that one out, I helped you by putting the word HARD in all caps.

If he goes to Europe let him go...and you still think Shaq would have won a title in LA if he never had a player like Kobe....maybe you were in a coma when he and the Magics were in the finals....ESPN classics will fill you in...you think Shaq is any better than Kobe. Here is a guy who has played with the greatest player in the game and the greatest coach in the game...TWICE--meaning when he was with the lakers Phil Jackson was in Shaq's eyes the greatest coach, and Kobe was the greatest shooting guard...then he leaves the Lakers and suddenly Jackson is Benedict Arnold and Kobe could tell him how his a**hole tastes. Then he gets to Miami, praises the franchise, Pat Riley and Wade becomes the greatest coach and player then he bad mouths them after he leaves. Oh did I mention the Magics and Penny? Yah, if Shaquille O'neal is not the biggest flip-flopper in America then John Kerry is a conservative and Rush Limbaugh is a Liberal. He just turns around and bashes them when he doesn't get his way. Shaq is over, get over him.

Now on to Kobe, 50 mil so what. Desrespect the Europeans, its an American thing. We disrespect what we don't know because if it is not America then its not good. And that goes for you too AK, I dare Commish Stern...replace or even add two of the better European teams in the Eastern Conference (that's still a part of the NBA...right?) and run them through a season, I bet you one or even two of those European teams take two out of eight spots in the playoffs. So don' t st there and say things like 'NBA quality this, NBA quality that' The world isn't that big and isolated anymore, they are getting better...the only sports safe in our pockets are Football and Baseball. Well if Kobe's status would be negated by the "low-class" competition level in Europe then what does that say about Lebron James in the Eastern Conference, not alot of people subtract from his "greatness" because he took his team to the Finals out of a lowly conference versus Paul Pierce who needed two perennial All-Stars versus Kobe who needed three years Pau Gasol and the ability to trust his teammates. At the rate at how this country's economy is going down the toilet, I wouldn't wanna stick around either I would go where the pastures are greener. Guess what, the guy is thirty he has about 7 or maybe eight years left in the tank, what is he gonna do after the league...he has to and should consider family and get as finacially comfortable as possible, God knows how much crappier things are going to get.

Do I think he will...nah, because every year some idiot rattles off their mouth and he loves coming back with a chance to shut them up...this year Paul Pierce and Shaq top that list. Kobe still has the time on his side to stuff at least four more championships in the mouths of those who trash...and as long as he has that chance to make people like KL tell him how his a** tastes then he will stick around in the NBA...plain and simple.

Oh and by the way, lets just say Kobe compares himself to Michael Jordan...you must never in your life have anybody, family member or adult who you saw live their life a certain way and say "damn I could be like him...I could be better than him."---Tell me, what is wrong with that? Nothing is new under the sun!

Are you going to knock me because I sit back and watch the way my squad leader leads by example, her decisiveness, and all those other things that makes her probably the best non-commissioned officer in my unit and I when I got promoted to Sergeant I said to her "I could be as good as you are, but I won't settle for that, I am going to be better than you and although you're retiring in november, you'll live long enough to know it"---are you going to knock me for that? Really?

Lets play devil's advocate KL and say Kobe does look in the mirror and say I gotta be like Mike, I gotta be better than him. So the piss what! Is Jordan God, and even the bible tells Christians to "be perfect, just as their heavenly father was perfect."---if you base your hatred for Kobe on those then damn man. Its ok...I still respect you though...assuming you are a Laker fan, and even if you aren't I still respect you because you're a fan of the game.

Speaking of Europe, great showing by the US today in the Ryder Cup. If not for a couple letdowns where the Europeans were let back in to halve matches, the US would have a commanding lead, not just a comfortable one. Go USA!

This whole conversation about Kobe going to Europe has some obvious parallels to Beckham coming to LA. The money being talked about is similar. The US is as irrelavent in futbol as Europe is irrelavent in basketball. And at the time Beckham made the move, he was irrelavent in futbol as well.

Charles,

Kobe Bryant doesn't think like most of us.

Most of us think "Wow! $30 million dollars to play basketball and hang out in my villa on the Italian riveria! What a life! That would be awesome!"

Kobe Bryant thinks "I want to be remembered as the Greatest player in the history of basketball. I want to remembered as THE BEST and I will work my ass off and do anything I can to get there!"

That does not include lounging in the sun on the Italian riveria. That DOES include obsessively working towards a goal and consistently playing at the highest level of competition possible.

To quote the Immortal BK, when it comes to playing in Europe BK: "Should it happen, though, it won't enhance his basketball legacy, only his wallet."

Sure Kobe likes to make money. Who doesn't? But the single greatest motivation in this guy's life is to build his legacy.

That's it.

He's a complete competitive lunatic and I love him for it.

GO LAKERS!

Lakers_sth,

>>>>>This whole conversation about Kobe going to Europe has some obvious parallels
>>>>>to Beckham coming to LA. The money being talked about is similar. The US is as
>>>>>irrelavent in futbol as Europe is irrelavent in basketball. And at the time Beckham
>>>>>made the move, he was irrelavent in futbol as well.

Excellent points, sth. But the big difference between Beckham and Kobe is that you can’t be a true worldwide superstar until you conquer the U.S. Like the Beatles and Beckham, coming to America skyrocketed their fame and international recognition, moves that needed to be made to get to the next level of marketability. Kobe going to Europe may increase Kobe’s worldwide popularity but he doesn’t need that because he is already a superstar in America in the best basketball league in the world.

Too many fans are confusing the ability of European teams who have played together for years to defeat undisciplined USA all-star teams that we sent before this year. The truth is that there is a huge talent gap between European pro basketball and the NBA. European teams are just as close to the D-League as they are to the NBA quality-wise. Let some of those European teams play the Lakers, Hornets, or Celtics. Then you would see what a drop-down it would be for Kobe to play anywhere else but the NBA. You have a better chance of seeing him in a Clippers uniform than playing overseas - ever. You can’t be the best unless you play against the best. Kobe knows that. Bet on it. He will never play in the minor leagues. JMO, of course.

Tom

KL

no offense intended, and clearly none taken.

I just find it interesting that you feel the need to respond to "ridiculous" statements with "ridiculous" statements in kind. It seems a little odd to me.

I honestly don't think Kobe is better than jordan. I measure greatness by winning, that's what the competition is designed for. We can talk all day about game, talent, potential and a million other tangible aspects of the team sport. The bottom line is those conversations are not futile, they are merely warm-ups to actual competition. You can talk all you want, but who wins ultimately decides who is better. Much like Kobe's comment about the Celtics this year.

I love kobe, first because he was a Laker. then I loved him for his game, then I loved him for his work ethic, now I love him for his legend.

BUT... He is not better than Jordan. Jordan won six. Kobe's got work to do before the argument heats up. I'm not sure he'll do it. But I sure hope he does, because he wears my colors, represents my "region" and plays with his heart out there on the floor all the time (same reason I love AI but can't stand vince, love guys like turiaf and fish, and can't stand the kwam/smush).

Sorry to ramble so much, I know I'm all over the place. Bottom line, I don't think Kobe's statement threw his teammates under the buss, I think he said he got overwhelmed and outplayed, and that OUR team needs to shore up our D and our Rebounding (bynum hopefully) to become the better team, rather than hope to upset the better team.
Even if you don't agree with his statement I just can't understand how consciously flawed adversarial statements are a rational response. But hey if that's your MO that's cool with me. Just calling it how I see it.

good man, good convo. Its nice talking with someone across an ideological line with some rational thoughts. Keep up the good work.

TrueLakerFan,

>>>>>So next year, what type of contract are we looking at with Kobe?
>>>>>I presume a max contract. But what would be the price range/years?
>>>>>and could the Lakers afford him?

I have a hunch that Kobe will opt out of his contract and sign a new long-term contract to be a Laker for Life for less than the max in order to help the Lakers keep the team together. Kobe does not really need the money and such a move would be a public relations coup de grace that would re-define most people’s opinion of and respect for Kobe. Like 7-years @ $20M each.

Tom

puddle,

>>>>>After 20 seasons, all with the Lakers, Kobe will retire at the age of 38
>>>>>after passing Kareem on the all-time scoring list.

I think Kobe just might play until he is 38. Drew would then just be 28 and really in his prime. So how many championships could Kobe conceivably win in the next 8 years if he and Drew both stay healthy. At least 4 in my opinion and maybe 5 or 6, for a career total of 7 to 9 rings.

If Kobe could accomplish that, he would rank right up there with MJ when his career was over. But think of this, if Kobe wins say 5 more rings, that will mean that Drew would have 5 rings by the time he was 28. How many rings he could conceivably win is, well, inconceivable.

Tom

TrueLakerFan-

Here's how I see it playing out- Kobe opts out of his deal. The Lakers fax over a max deal, in money and years. That's about it. They can afford it, in part because they can't afford not to. Could those last couple seasons be a little burly, if the mileage starts to wear on Kobe? Maybe, but there's no way they screw around with that contract.

BK

LakerTom

I hope your right. Although I see the idea of kobe taking a paycut unlikely to happen. He is going to be 31 by then and this will be his last big contract (unless he goes oversee's). I think how well lamar plays this season will play a role in whether kobe takes a paycut to stay here or not, that, and winning the championship of course.

Go Lakers

BK

You make a good point. even if those last couple of seasons Kobes productions slides off significantly it's still worth it. You can't let a player of kobes caliber go while he is sitll in his prime. I just hope things go smoothly, the idea of seeing kobe in another uniform is disturbing.

Go Lakers

TrueLakerFan,

>>>>>I hope your right. Although I see the idea of kobe taking a paycut unlikely to happen.
>>>>>He is going to be 31 by then and this will be his last big contract.

I haven’t seen what a max contract for Kobe would be if he opts out at the end of this year. Or how many years. For some reason, I am thinking that 7 years may be max and maybe $200M total? So maybe Kobe agrees to take $160M with the understanding that the team will use the $40M over 7 years to reward or keep other players. I think the PR value of such a move would be worth the $40M. How better to prove what a team players he is. Maybe, I am dreaming but such a move would put him in a new light to the public as well as his teammates. And a great way to make sure everybody will still want to pass him the ball. LOL. And like Gilbert said, how much difference can $160M vs. $200M really make on your lifestyle. That $40M might be the best investment Kobe ever made. It might end up anchoring his legacy. What a contrast from the “billionaire” aspirations of LeBronze. And $40M would top the $30M that Arenas left on the table with the Wizards. Do it, Kobe. You’re reading this. I know. Just do it!

Tom

Kobe wont go overseas at the end of this contract...he already said it would hurt his pride..thats as good as a no and unless he plans on staying there a LONG time then it wouldnt be worth it in the end when he will be able to sign a 5 year deal for a hundred million plus in LA.

It probably wouldn't even make sense financially for him to go to europe in the long run...and if he took a year or two out of the NBA could he walk back in to a max deal at age 33 or 34? I doubt it.Kobe will go overseas eventually but he will play out another NBA contract first...and barring disaster this year the contract he signs will be with the lakers.A far more relevant question is does he take a pay cut...I dont get the feeling he likes that idea too much in theory but if he sees the impact ie lamar stays or goes then I think he'd do it.Its a tough call but he asked for help and now he's got it I'm not sure if it would be a good look to let it walk away because Kobe's not prepared to give up some money but I guess there will be varied opinions on this particular point.

Why do you guys even entertain the thoughts of this nonsense. Mamba has an ocean full of fish to fry and it will take more than a season to fry them. Opt out to play against weaker competition you've got to be kidding me.

hobbitmage-

There's a difference between international play and the quality of the leagues. Europe is definitely able to assemble very strong national squads, but the quality of the individual leagues isn't close to what the NBA has. It just isn't. The right comparison would be teams in the leagues to teams in the NBA, and not teams in the NBA to the national squads. In that sense, the NBA teams are superior.

As for winning a title in another league, it doesn't really matter if that league is considered lesser quality. And in terms of players coming to play with him? Who? For how much money?

It's a moot point to a large extent, since he's not going anywhere, but if he did, it would be a money thing, not a basketball thing. I get where you're going with your argument, but don't see it.

BK

kobe was just on Charlie Rose in the east coast feed, so check it out on the west coast feed - it's the second part of the show, also with Kidd and duke/usa coach - mostly about US squad, but nice segment none the less

MORE TALK ABOUT ODOM AS 6TH MAN…

From Henry Abbott’s TrueHoop for ESPN.com

http://tinyurl.com/4znvjz

There have been several reports that the Lakers have been seriously considering moving Lamar Odom to 6th man, a move that many of us on the blog have been aggressively championing. While we still see lineups with the Triple Towers, I think Lamar will be more valuable backing up Pau so he can back up Drew and we can keep two of our bigs on the floor at all times. Can’t wait for camp to begin. Wish I was in LA and could somehow sneak in to watch practice. What fun that would be this training camp. Here is excerpt from TrueHoop article:

>>>>>

Art Thompson III of the Orange County Register: "With Luke Walton hoping but not guaranteed to be a full strength when training camp begins in 12 days, this presents a ripe opportunity for Trevor Ariza to stake his claim to the starting small forward position. I know what Laker fans are saying, 'What about Lamar Odom?' Odom has discussed with the basketball staff the possibility of accepting a sixth-man role, which has all sorts of delightful possibilities to it, due to the 6-foot-10 Odom's versatility. He could come off the bench to play small forward or play the two position (shooting guard) or power forward. The Lakers' staff even has discussed with Odom the possibility of him being a hybrid point forward and initiating the offense in that role."

>>>>>

Tom

I'm not an accountant, nor a foreign exchange expert...but the dollar doesn't go far in Europe. Yes, I know, his team, may actuality be HIS team if he makes the move, will be picking up alot of tabs for housing, more Italian cars, and private school for the kiddies, but take a look at what it costs to buy one Euro, (I know he ain't going to London, unless it's in 2012), but take a look to see what it costs to buy one British Pound. It hurt me and I make decent income...money's not the issue, he's pickin up more endorsements, will probably get a real good renewal from Nike on his next shoe contract, and his shoes are way better than Jordan's (looks, comfort, wear, costs, etc)...Nike hasn't even tapped into his earnings potential...soon kids will not know of the greatness of Jordan, so there may be a shift for Nike to push Kobe's stuff more,...and we all can't wear 3 lbs shoes like LeBron...only a stud like him can...

Whatever makes him happy, the Lakers can succeed with or without him, and I'd say in the game of Life, he's winning over Shaq...Kobe finally grew up, Shaq never will...and let's forget about last year's finals, it's over. We lost, it's going to be a new season, with all new team. The Knicks will suck as usual, and that coach of theirs better stock up on his Grecian formula, cuz the press is going to ream him,....maybe Shaq will ask him what it tastes like, cuz he always badmouths former people in his life...

Maybe I better get in line now for the Jordan XXXII, because that'll be a special one, you know, because it's his jersey number backwards, and I just can't wait for the XLV, because he wore number 45 when he came back from baseball, which is one boring game, with too much jewelry...

hman

No Way, No How, Not A Chance in Heck would Kobe go play in Europe. How come? Here's 10 reasons why:

1) He wants to add to his legacy to become the G.O.A.T. (Greatest Of All Time) which has been his stated ambition since his rookie year.

2) He is after NBA championships, he knows that a Euro Championship is meaningless.

3) Kobe is a competitor of the very highest level. What type of competition would he go up against in Europe? NBA non-draftee's, NBDL castoffs, 2nd & 3rd rate Europeans & the odd Josh Childress, a mediocre-at-best NBA'er that went for the Euro money grab (and will probably be MVP over there!). NO WAY Kobe denigrates his career against the motley crue in Euro hoops.

4) This is no way to surpass MJ.

5) No way Kobe gives up the socal lifestyle and drags his wife and kids from a Newport Harbor view mansion for smoke-filled arena's, even if they are in Italy.

6) He won't exactly be earning a pittance over here, the next contract he signs will pay him I believe close to $30-mil a year.

7) There is no Euro team that can offer the big money Kobe is looking for, unless one is wise enough to see what the Galaxy have done with Beckham, recouping their investment in increased attendance and merchandising. I could imagine that that amount is more than a few entire European teams payroll totals combined.

8) He's not a soccer player, at least not as good as he thinks he is. Outside of a few headers and kicks he does to the stray ball that comes his way on dead-balls or during warmups he's no Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi. If he was that good a soccer player it's the only way he could make that much in Europe, not a basketball player though - no way they pay even the best hoopster in the world that much.

9) FIBA rules don't suit his game, although he was an absolute demon on the defensive end during the olympics.

10) Have you seen Euro uniforms? They are god-awful looking, as well as being mobile billboards. We all know Laker purple and gold is the nicest looking uni in all of sports and I'm sure Kobe knows how good he looks in his!

HOWEVER when Kobe is 39 and has 8 Laker championships, the all-time leading scorer along with 4 MVP's then OK, fine, head off the Europe for a huge, tax free payday. Until then PLEAAAAASE DON"T GO KOBE, DON"T GO!!!!!!

Ok, ok , ok.

Now I get it.

On his off-time, kobey jumps over moving cars and thumps his chest and toots his horn.

On his off time, Shack does things like this (video at the bottom of the page after the SUNS article):
http://tinyurl.com/44vtfu

Shack is such a clown that he naturally absorbed so much attention in the lakers locker room from whoever was there...and kobey doesn't clown around.

Here's the word out of SUNS training camp according to the paul coro article listed below:

"The buzz out of voluntary workouts of late has been about rookie Robin Lopez. It's never been a question that he would contribute immediately. The question about him has become just how good he can be."

Guess what my friends? The SUNS have a young, powerful, huge 7-footer who defends, rebounds, runs and finishes strong.

Here's the other bit from coro:

"Shack's weight is said to be in line with what the Suns hoped to see him at entering camp. He scrimmaged twice this week, even making a nimble move when he was knocked down to do a fluid, backward somersault and come to his feet. He has been working out the past two years with Ultimate Fighting Championship legend Royce Gracie up to four times a week. But Wee Man has him beat. Just take a look . . . "

http://tinyurl.com/44vtfu

The quality of the the euro leagues are severly diminished by the fact that of the top 100 euro players, at least 75 of them are playing in the NBA, which makes the NBA that much more superior. The world talent may have closed the gap on the American talent over the last 20 yrs., but the world leagues are at least 10-15yrs behind the NBA. Going from the NBA to a euro league would be like going from an all-star starter on the Varsity team to the B team in high school.

Just look at the Spanish Olympic team,at least 6 or 7 of their 12 players either play in the NBA or are NBA caliber players. Most of the 11 other Olympic teams had at least 1 NBA player. As far as I can recall the only NBA player the 1992 Olympic team faced was Sarunus Marciulionis of the Ukraine team.

If Kobe does wind up going to play in europe it will have nothing to do with playing basketball and everything to do with money, marketing and trying to become a world icon. It would be an attempt to reach the lofty elevation of say Tiger Woods, Beckham or Micheal Schumacher(google it). I don't think any league in europe could actually foot the bill. It would most likely bankrupt the league he would sign with.

Basketball has a long way to go to challenge soccer over there. Some soccer teams over there are worth over a billion dollars. I think you would have hard time finding a basketball team worth more than $50M over there let alone paying 1 player $50M a year. I think Beckham's $250M deal with the MLS will eventually be viewed as the deal that killed the MLS. I don't think the MLS has even a slim chance of recouping the money they pay him. Has the MLS ever made a profit?

If a league over there is dumb enough to pay Kobe or any top NBA player $50M a year, I wont blame him for taking the money. Put yourself in his shoes. If you are making $100K a yr. and another company in another state offers to pay you $250K a yr. tax free, you would be a fool to not take it for at least a year or two.

The Outlaw

“But some of your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired. 4-1 break? Do you play basketball? Do you study the game of basketball? That's simply not how it works. And, yes, the Celtics loaded up their defense on Kobe, and the Lakers did a poor job of adjusting.”

I’ve played varsity ball as a role player (6th man and defensive stopper). Coach use to use me as the “1” in the box-and-1 zone defense. i was the bruce bowen of my team. So yes, I do play ball and understand the game.

My “4-1” comment was intended to be facetious. If the C’s were throwing 3-4 guys at kobe, then the game was defacto 4-1 versus kobe and 1-4 for everybody else. Sounds like a great game plan when kobe gets quadrupled teamed, pass to the open guy, then it’s a 4-1 break, right? I’m being facetious.

“You also state that Kobe compares himself with Jordan. That's just not the case. Kobe shrugs off comparisons.”

I’m not sure how old you are or how long you’ve been following the lakers and kobe, but I’ve been a lakers fan since 1987. I took an excerpt from an article (http://tinyurl.com/5o7rla): A piece in Sports Illustrated recalls Bryant comparing himself to Jordan, then in his twilight with the Wizards: "There's only two real killers [Jordan and kobe] in this league. [said kobe]". This sports illustrated article is what started my dissension of kobe as a player which escalated until 2004 when kobe lobbied to rid of shaq essentially trading in championship opportunities to “be like mike”.

Kobe “shrugging” now is a cover for what he truly believes which is kobe’s better than Jordan nevermind kobe hasn’t accomplished 1/100 of what Jordan has done. I actually think kobe is closer to dominic wilkins during those Jordan versus Dominc arguments back in the 80s and 90s.

“That's just not it. Kobe is cocky, but most highly skilled athletes are. That's part of what it takes to be great.”

Very fine line between arrogance and confidence. Lebron and wade have confidence. Kobe has arrogance. Jordan himself doesn’t like kobe basically saying in jordan’s prime, he’ll b*iatch slap kobe up and down the court. i agree with jordan.

“And I believe that Kobe has matured gracefully.”

Quote: Jerry Buss is an idiot (circa 2007)
Quote: Ship Bynum’s azz out (circa 2007)
Quote: Shaq did it too (circa 2004)

“Believe it or not, people DO change. Come on. Look at you. You're back on the blog, right?”

Agreed, but I’m still the same person as before less the personal attacks. In either case, I agree with you that people change. Kobe has gotten better, but every so often, I see the old kobe that I dislike. Don’t take me wrong, if I was a fan in china, I’d love kobe for all of his razzle dazzle moves, but I care more about playing the game the right way rather than the street ball one-on-one crap. Maybe I’m old school.

Nice chat.

ron shalom

"Wow KL--I see you've returned from the rock under which you were hiding for Kobe's entire MVP season."

by "rock" are you referring to the k-buddies? i wasn't hiding, i was taking my punishment like man.

jandro,

nice chat bro. we agree that kobe has work to do. look, i give credit to kobe for doing a good job last season. i give kobe credit during the championship years up until 2003 when kobe started acting the fool with this "jordan vs kobe" crap which, in my most humble opinion, messed with kobe mindset. now, kobe's realized that he'll need teammates to "be like mike". the dude's only 30, so if kobe can lead a laker team to a championship, "KLBeast" will have nothing to complain about.

i truly hope kobe will see the light and work to make bynum and gasol all stars this season enroute to a championship. if that happens, KL=Kobe Lover.

haha

good convo too.

LakerTom,
"that would re-define most people’s opinion of and respect for Kobe."

Unfortunately, I don't think it would. I think that there are two main reasons why people dislike Kobe: resentment for daring to approach, and arguably reaching, the level of Michael Jordan, and that "selfish ball-hog" image cemented in their minds when he waved off Karl Malone's screen in the All-Star game. Kobe could win five more titles and those people would make up reasons not to like him. You can see it here on the blog with some of the posters.

If the Lakers don't win a Championship next year, Kobe is gone! And not to Europe but to some other basketball team.

The Lakers will offer Kobe the max money and years but Kobe will walk away from it. He'll say: It's not about the money. It's about winning Championships and trust!

I don't think the events from last summer have left his mind. I think the trust was broken and no matter what Kobe doesn't feel he owes the Lakers any loyalty because Dr. Buss and Jerry Buss had made it known that they wanted Kobe gone when Kobe had demanded the trade.

That's my opinion.

mike t.

LakerTom - puleeze already. How many titles are Kobe and AB going to win? How many so far? You are, as always, too over the top. The NBA is a hard friggin' league with a lot of combos vying for the supreme prize - come down out of your spaceship and have an adult beverage.

Hobbit Image,

"You can make the argument that the NBA is a better
but wasn't it Spain playing team USA in the Olympic
finals and hanging around until the 2 min. mark? Wasn't it Team USA { NBA } who got schooled by Greece a couple of years ago? Did Greece have *any* NBA players? Would the Clippers have beaten Spain? No. Would the Miami Heat have beaten Spain? No. Kings? Suns? Bucks?"

To add to BK's earlier response, I think you'd need to rethink your question along these lines. Could the Spanish National team without the Gasol Brothers, Rudy Fernandez and Jose Calderon (who'd all be in the NBA) and maybe one third of the best remaining players (since Spanish league is made up of teams, not A team, so players are scattered around) beat the Clippers, Heat or Suns? I think the answer is a resounding "not a prayer." The Euro team I just described is more typical of "league" fare, and any NBA team would crush it.

If Kobe decides to abandon the NBA for 40-50 mil in Europe, it's first and foremost about the money. Period. He basically said as much. Granted, it's Kobe right to make that decision- I think it I'd be a regrettable one, but that's neither here nor there- but let's at least be honest about the motivation. He'd be leaving a considerably better, more competitive brand of basketball behind him- in his prime, no less- and we're talking about somebody who absolutely lives to play and beat the best. For a guy like Kobe to do that, it basically comes down to the Don Corleone-esque "offer he can't refuse," one that's about a boatload of cash.

Of course, this is all fairly moot, because Kobe ain't going abroad in the first place. He doesn't "need" the money (Dude's current salary isn't exactly peanuts, and that's without endorsements and what he's already banked), is on a team set to be contenders for many years and wants to create a legacy of being among the truly elite, if not THE best. That won't happen if he's balling in Italy at 31, a reality I think would outweigh any money grab opp. Could he leave the Lakers for another team? Sure, although I doubt that's happening, either. But Europe seems more "talking point" than "actual threat."

AK

BUTLER - you make a good point, all the best Euro players are in the NBA, so the Euro leagues don't even have the best Euro's playing in it! I would think the top European team would be hard-pressed to win 15 games in the NBA - even in the Leastern Conference.

I do think however that the Galaxy has made a great move in signing Beckham to the $250-mil over 5 year contract. How come? Well, if you just saw the Forbes highest-value franchise list a couple days ago, the Galaxy are far and away the highest at $100-mil worth, more than double the next valuable MLS franchise.

Also, they lead the league in home attendance, as well as away attendance. They also played 6 or so games in asia and australia/new zealand at the end of last year and got about a million per each of those games - something no other MLS team has the star power to be able to do.

Most importantly, Becks contract has about paid for itself, he gets paid like $6-mill guaranteed a year, the rest is from increased endorsements, etc... He has sold I believe 3/4 of a million jerseys throughout the world, and that is a lot of revenue he has produced for the Galaxy who normally would not be selling jerseys in asia or europe for example. So the Galaxy didn't only get Becks the player, they got Brand-Beckham that is a major money-maker for the team.

We all saw how the Chinese reacted to Kobe during the Olympics, heck he got the highest amount of cheers of any athlete I saw outside of Yao during the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. In fact, I think Kobe single-handedly helped the U.S. get the loudest applause besides home-team China (and did you see Putin's face when the U.S. team entered to a massive roar a couple of countries after Russia entered to a light, polite applause? hehe...) If the Chinese had a more developed basketball league and paid him mega-millions above his Laker contract, he might be tempted to go there and become the biggest athlete in the biggest country in the world. Imagine the 10's of millions in endorsements he could make in Asia if he did that!!!

Kobe is like Tiger in golf, or Ronaldhino was - Ronaldo is now in soccer. No american baseball player or football player could be as big in Europe, basically the biggest U.S. athletes are currently Tiger and Kobe. Only Kobe could go over there and become a sensation, and one of those rich European owners could try to lure Kobe, perhaps giving him a slice in their business and letting him become the face of their product.

If say a 2 year stay in Europe could make Kobe over $100-mill free and clear of taxes, I mean who couldn't pass that up? That is the same as a $200-mill contract here in the U.S. It would be like MJ taking 2 years off to play baseball, then come back to the NBA to a heroes welcome!

I think it is possible if the Lakers win a championship and it would allow Kobe to walk away for a year or two on top. That would be the only way I see it possibly happening, and he still would need some rich European owner to offer him that, which I find would be doubtful. So I think it could happen, but may only be a 1% chance or so...

BK - [T]he chances of him playing the 2009-10 season across the pond are remote. Should it happen, though, it won't enhance his basketball legacy, only his wallet.
---

Very remote.

And even if circumstances somehow converged to a point where *it* "could" happen -- there's no pan euroleague agreement, no enforcement mechanism, no international adjudicating body currently in place to *guarantee* Bryant would be paid what was promised.

The CBA is a millstone on player salaries precisely because it guarantees payment based on mutually enforceable obligations.

Until or unless Euro teams are similarly obligated *and* accountable, $50 million promises aren't worth the lira they're printed on.

ExHelo,

I think your post regarding the Kobe haters is right on. I would only add that I think there is a third reason; probably ahead of the two you list--Colorado.

LakerTom,

I LOVE the idea of Lamar Odom playing a point forward role on the second team. I think he would be a heavy favorite for Sixth Man of the Year, if that were the case. And, of course, he'd get Manu Ginobili minutes, so he'd still get almost starter minute action.

I just think with Lamar Odom leading the second team, The Bench Mob would suddenly be on part to beat the starting units of a lot of NBA teams.

GO LAKERS!

ex,

>>>>>Unfortunately, I don't think it would. I think that there are two main reasons why
>>>>>people dislike Kobe: resentment for daring to approach, and arguably reaching,
>>>>>the level of Michael Jordan, and that "selfish ball-hog" image cemented in their
>>>>>minds when he waved off Karl Malone's screen in the All-Star game. Kobe could
>>>>>win five more titles and those people would make up reasons not to like him.
>>>>>You can see it here on the blog with some of the posters.

You may unfortunately be right. I would add Shaq-Lovers like KL as the third group of Kobe-Haters who believe running down Kobe is somehow elevating Shaq in their minds. However, time may continue to mellow out even the KL’s of the world. We may even reach the day where you can lift a rock on the blog and not find a Kobe-Hater slithering and sliming their own private brand of logic. Despite his recent remission, even KL has seen Kobe in a new light, although he will probably regurgitate some tired, old, false arguments once he reads this.

At any rate, reality is that people do change their stripes. Just look at politics as an example. Kobe is becoming more and more likeable and taking less than the max to help the team would add to the continued respect and admiration of his fans and teammates – and even Haters.

Tom

AK/BK,

I know very little about this realm of basketball. Hopefully you guys can enlighten me.

I've been told that a lot of basketball players make considerably greater amounts of money through endorsements than they do through their actual salaries. If this is true, I'm assuming its also the case for Kobe Bryant, considering his status.

How would playing in Europe (or abroad in general) affect Kobe's endorsement income? And if it did affect his endorsement income, could you guys give a very rough estimate to the degree that it might positively or negatively affect his income in that regard?

GO LAKERS!

Good Morning, Laker Nation,

I have a general question for everyone, considering that we're talking about Kobe Bryant and money.

I personally think that Kobe Bryant will play until 37 or 38.

Let's say we sign Kobe Bryant to a seven year-$200 million contract. Will the weight of such a contract unduly hamper the Lakers ability to sign necessary young talent to keep this team in the continuous hunt for a Championship after Kobe is 34 years old?

GO LAKERS!

AK,

>>>>>For a guy like Kobe to do that, it basically comes down to the
>>>>>Don Corleone-esque "offer he can't refuse," one that's about a boatload of cash.

Gotta agree with your take on this 100%. Kobe is NOT going to play in the minor leagues short of an impossible offer. It reminds me of the scene from Heaven Can Wait where the former owner of the Rams is bemoaning to another team owner how he was forced to sell the Rams to Warren Beatty. The other team owner asks him how Warren Beatty “forced” him to sell the team and he answers that I gave him an outrageous price and he agreed to it.

Tom

LakerTom,

A lot of people may resent any discussion comparing Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, and for good reason, Kobe Bryant simply has not accomplished as much in his career as Michael Jordan. Not even close.

However, Kobe Bryant has between five and nine years left to his career. If (when) Kobe Bryant begins winning championships with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and The Bench Mob, the weight of that comparison will begin to even itself out.

Let's say Kobe Bryant wins four more Championships in the next nine years and maintains a relatively consistent level of play, statistically speaking (and of course adjusted to the aging process), the comparisons between Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant will become a lot more appropriate.

Are they appropriate now? No.

Will they be appropriate if Kobe Bryant retires with seven rings as a starter? Oh yes they will and by that time the majority of people will assume that Kobe Bryant is a Greater player than Michael Jordan.

Time will tell. Good thing we've got a front seat in the process.

GO LAKERS!

Let Kobe opt out. He's not going anywhere. The team's too good, the other players too good, the coaching and ownership are too good and and Newport Beach is about as nice a place to live as their is.

And if Dwane Wade wants to go to New York, how about LA?

The trade machine likes this trade:

Dwane Wade for Jordan Farmar and Pau Gasol.

Can you imagine the one two punch of Kobe and Wade? We saw what they did in the olympics, and the heat get a true 7 footer and Farmar...

Wes

EricM,
"I would only add that I think there is a third reason; probably ahead of the two you list--Colorado"

I think that the vast majority of those people were already in one of the other categories. People who didn't already have a negative view of Kobe look at the results of the Colorado incident and realize that there was most likely no crime there.

lakertom

"You may unfortunately be right. I would add Shaq-Lovers like KL as the third group of Kobe-Haters who believe running down Kobe is somehow elevating Shaq in their minds. However, time may continue to mellow out even the KL’s of the world. We may even reach the day where you can lift a rock on the blog and not find a Kobe-Hater slithering and sliming their own private brand of logic. Despite his recent remission, even KL has seen Kobe in a new light, although he will probably regurgitate some tired, old, false arguments once he reads this."

um...thanks? please don't lump my position of shaq and kobe together. shaq has earned praise that this blog refuses to acknowledge. kobe has NOT earned the praise that this blog readily pushes.

all i'm saying is kobe hasn't really done anything as a laker without shaq. last season was a breakout season. i give credit to kobe, but in the whole scheme of things (ie, laker history), what has kobe ackomplished as a "man"?

ex,

>>>>>I think that the vast majority of those people were already in one of the other
>>>>>categories. People who didn't already have a negative view of Kobe look at the
>>>>>results of the Colorado incident and realize that there was most likely no crime there.

Well said, ex. I just cannot understand how we can see eye to eye so often about basketball and the Lakers and yet be on opposite ends of the political spectrum. LOL.

Tom

ex

" Kobe could win five more titles and those people would make up reasons not to like him. You can see it here on the blog with some of the posters."

how about winning ONE as the lead guy? then let's talk. let's not forget, kobe open this door for "haters" when he, as a whippersnappin 19-year-old, compared himself to jordan.

i'd rather kobe prove it first, then make comparision. kobe has not even come close to reaching jordan's level. this blog will do every it can to dissuade the notion that kobe hasn't even come close to reaching jordan's legacy.

ya think a 13-year-kid is going to wear "kobe" products 10 years after kobe retires like people now readily wear "jordan" gear? doubt it.

i grew up saving weekly hopeing to buy my Air Jordan shoes. I look at kobe shoes and say "i'd rather buy jordan's shoes".

ExHelo,

We'll have to disagree on this one. The reason I think Colorado is more important than you think is because it bothers me. The other stuff was just a young guy being cocky and wanting to be the best. Doesn't bother me at all.

I have always loved KB24 but must say that I really had to do a second take after colorado. Just because he paid her off and colorado went away, doesn't mean it wasn't a "nearly fatal" mistake. No one really knows what happen, and it will always be in the back of my mind; Even as I'm voting him into the HOF. ;-)

Jon,

>>>>>Are they appropriate now? No.
>>>>>Will they be appropriate if Kobe Bryant retires with seven rings as a starter?
>>>>>Oh yes they will and by that time the majority of people will assume that
>>>>>Kobe Bryant is a Greater player than Michael Jordan.
>>>>>Time will tell. Good thing we've got a front seat in the process.

Agreed. It is foolish to compare Kobe with MJ until he has completed his career. He has a chance to equal or surpass Michael but he will have to win at least 3 more rings and preferably 4, which I believe he will do. JMHO.

Tom

Otis Campbell,

>>>>>LakerTom - puleeze already. How many titles are Kobe and AB going to win?
>>>>>How many so far? You are, as always, too over the top. The NBA is a hard friggin'
>>>>>league with a lot of combos vying for the supreme prize - come down out of your
>>>>>spaceship and have an adult beverage.

You are, as always, just a fly in the ointment. Why does it bother you for other bloggers to talk about how many rings Kobe and Drew “might” win together? Any Lakers fan who can’t get a charge out of that subject must be mentally challenged in some way. Or just a naysayer.

If you think I am too optimistic, just scroll by my posts. Frankly, I would rather stay in my GHF spaceship and smoke what I want. I will let you and yours destroy your brains and livers with your “adult beverages.” Puleeze already. Stop whining and just scroll by.

Tom

KL,

I played too much basketball, my high school coach was an idiot, we basically had 6 offensive plays, 3 vs man 2 man, 3 versus zone....he hated me cuz he was always busting my chops because he didn't think I was trying hard enough, I'm a type B, things come naturally and I had the physical part down, I could see the game as I was playing it, and was exploring the mental part, I guess he didn't like it when he learned I was the instigator in the breakdown of his plays, and was teaching the other players variations off our basic plays...He called me in and I caught hell, on a personal level, so I told him he should't be f'ing the "guidance counselor"???? (She told me I should take more "shop" classes, because I would never make it in college, 2.6 GPA (drugs, girls, alcohol, ditched too much, but 1370 and 1420 on SAT..3.6 GPA in 1st college, B.S., 3.9 2nd college, another B.S. but it's what you would call a "professional degree"....I don't want to elaborate, cuz my job sucks)....I guess he shouldn't have been f'in his associate....I quit the team, and the mofo actually wanted me to stay with punishment, f-him, then got blackballed the rest of my time in high-school, all the gym teachers used to ride my ass. I was a decent athlete and I never even took conditioning seriously, I would just play. I ran alot, cross country, played tennis, baseball, tried football, but found it barbaric. They played favorites anyway. I had an NBA range jump shot, which could stay on long streaks..., but he wanted to grind it in to his guys...We used to play 3 on 3 for $50/game, and even then if one of those guys was on my team, it was grind it down, even though I was swishing net....I remember the last time I played in one of those games, I got lectured into passing it into the grinder, and he missed his dorky 1 foot jumper...told them, I woulda hit the 25 footer for the win, cuz I was on a streak that day....blackballed again...but you know what?, I got all the girls....

...also remember, don't know whey he had this stupid drill, I think it was to get me....at the end of practice, everyone would take 15 jumpshots, 3 point range, 3 from each spot, as you go from corner, side of key, top of key, side of key, other corner....5 outa 15 was best, I shot last, cuz I was checking out the cheerleaders or something, I hit 14 outa 15, mostly all net...then I told him, that was a waste of time, because you're only gonna let your "guys" shoot....

I hated high school, when I was there, it was great when we ditched, it was the 70's....everything goes, and did...

Jon K,

while I have no desire to do the debates about Lamar being on the bench or not as a 6th man, one of the problems I could foresee in the Point Forward role is when the bench comes out is that it will conflict with Jordan's own leadership with the bench mob. While not arrogant, Jordan is kinda cocky and having Lamar doing all the point duties could come into conflict with the role Jordan is supposed to do. If Jordan had improved himself to be a good catch and shoot point guard (like Paxson, Kerr, and Fisher) and has no problem being that until his time comes, then there would be no problem. However at the moment I see him as a classic dish and drive point guard. That is one thing concerning Lamar being a point forward for the bench.

When Jordan achieves 40% 3 point shooting then he would be a perfect fit in the offense with a penetrating shooting guard.

-blitz

KL,

>>>>>um...thanks? please don't lump my position of shaq and kobe together.
>>>>>shaq has earned praise that this blog refuses to acknowledge. kobe has NOT
>>>>>earned the praise that this blog readily pushes.

You are probably incapably of viewing the situation with an unbiased eye but you definitely have Kobe and Shaq on opposite ends of a teeter-totter. Every time, Kobe goes up, you think it makes Shaq go down and vice versa. In fact, you jump on Kobe thinking that will help elevate Shaq from the shameful and disgraceful path on which he is currently embarked. Maybe it will in your own mind but it just makes you look silly and biased to everybody else.

Most of the fans on the blog understand the reality of the Lakers most recent three-peat, which is that there were TWO players who were TOTALLY indispensible and without whom the Lakers would not have won those THREE championships – Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant. We give Shaq the credit but also realize that he has become his worst enemy these days.

You blithely claim to be a fan of team basketball but you refuse to accept the fact that it was a Lakers team – not just Shaq or any one player – who wins championships. Like Shaq would not have won 3 rings in LA without Kobe, he wouldn’t have won 1 ring in Miami without Wade. Like you keep saying but don’t really embrace, basketball is a team game. Kobe a team player.

>>>>> all i'm saying is kobe hasn't really done anything as a laker without shaq.
>>>>>last season was a breakout season. i give credit to kobe, but in the whole scheme
>>>>>of things (ie, laker history), what has kobe ackomplished as a "man"?

As a man, he showed great restraint and judgment to not respond to Shaq’s obscene, tasteless, and talentless rap against him. He showed he could evolve to the point where he won the complete trust and support of his teammates on the Lakers and on Team USA. He showed that he could provide the defensive orientation, leadership by example, and clutch shooting to lead team USA to the Gold. He showed he could lead an undermanned Lakers team to win the West and come within 2 games of winning the NBA Finals. I would say that was a pretty good set of accomplishments for a year.

Next year, Kobe and Drew will win the first of many more Lakers championships. Drew will give the Lakers and Kobe what Shaq did in his prime – a superstar center who can provide the center game to complement Kobe’s guard game. Of course, then you will claim that Kobe couldn’t win it without Drew – and you will be right but for the wrong reason. By then, I predict you will opt out of your contract with this blog and crawl back under that dark and dirty rock.

Tom

Good morning, KL,

I didn't realize that you were being sarcastic about the 4-1 break. My apologies. Had I known that, I certainly wouldn't have questioned your basketball knowledge.

I'm 34 years old, I grew up in Los Angeles, and I started watching the Lakers when I was about five (circa 1980). Magic. Norm. Coop. Kareem. I didn't become fanatical about the Lakers (ask my wife... she'll attest) until high school, circa 1988. Byron, Magic, Kareem, A.C. Green. Good times. So, yes, I remember when Kobe was very young in both his actions and his attitude. Of course Kobe was chasing Jordan in those days! That's what you do: you emulate the greatest players in the world, master their moves (to the best of your abilities), and try to become better than them. That's just human nature.

The Kobe I see now, though, is much more mature. In a RECENT interview, Kobe did shrug off comparisons to Jordan, stating, "Jordan? You're talking about the greatest player of all time." He also said that Jordan is Jordan, and people should stop comparing them. Does Jordan think he's better than Kobe? Damn right he does. Does Kobe think he's better than Jordan? An emphatic yes. Both these guys think they're the best to ever play the game, and that's why I love them. You have to think you're the best to be the best.

You state: "Very fine line between arrogance and confidence. Lebron and wade have confidence. Kobe has arrogance." You're just wrong here, KL. Lebron isn't arrogant? Wade isn't arrogant? What about the player from the Australian national team who said that Kobe was the most stand-up, respectful guy on the whole US team? He also said that Wade, specifically, was an arrogant jerk. Except he didn't say "jerk." I get it. You don't like Kobe. But your not liking Kobe is clouding your judgment, KL.

You might be old school. You like team ball. So do I, and it drives me crazy when Kobe goes one-on-one too much. But you love Jordan, right? Do you see where I'm going with this...?

I love Kobe. But I love the Lakers more, and I have for a long, long time. Long before Kobe was there. And long after he's gone. But right now, I love watching this guy play basketball. He amazes me every single night. There is NO BETTER PLAYER IN BASKETBALL RIGHT NOW. Wait... who said that...? Oh, right. It was Jordan.

Go Lake Show!

Aloha K.L

You are correct that Kobe hasnt won anything without Shaq. But you always seem to overlook the fact that Shaq couldnt lead the Lakers to a ring until Kobes game matured despite the fact that he had plenty of quality role players surrounding him.

If you look back over the last few decades of the NBA the only team that has won a ring without at least 2 great players was Detroit and they had 5 guys that have made an all star game.

As for Shaq he needed Kobe and later D-Wade to win it all. This is why if you are fair you can see that it took both of them to win it all and I doubt if Shaq would have done it either without Kobe.

This year with health we have a very good chance of winning it all, but it will not be just because of Kobe. It will be because of the addition of another great player in Pau and the continued maturity of Andrew. Plus some excelent role player.

The simple fact supported by NBA history is, it takes at least 2.

MH

Long time since I've posted, but I read often.

Let's assume Kobe does opt out of his contract at the end of the year, where's he going to go? What team in the NBA could simply sign him to a free agent contract at max value? None! Almost any team would have to involve the Lakers in a sign and trade deal and they would likely have to jettison a number of high dollar contracts back to the Lakers in order to sign Kobe. Most likely, that team would then be devoid of the quality of team mates Kobe would need to pursue more NBA championships. Why would Kobe even consider this kind of move? He wouldn't. A move like that would be lateral in dollars and down hill in team talent level. Not going to happen, take it to the bank.

The second option is Europe. However, those rich Euro-team owners didn't get rich by tossing their money around freely. What makes anyone think any of them are prepared to toss Kobe $50 mil to play in 40 or so games? Assume half the games are home games, the rest are road games. How do they make their investment pay for itself? Don't forget they also have to pay the rest of the team, or will it be Kobe & the scrubettes vs whoever? No way!

Kobe is already a Laker forever. He'll probably opt out, sign a new deal with the Lakers at a reasonable price and go on to become the BOAT. If he didn't intend to stay a Laker, why wouldn't he have opted to have his finger surgery now rather than next year.

Nope, Kobe is a Laker forever. Done deal.

KL,

Don't you get tired of singing the same old crappy tune?

You wrote: um...thanks? please don't lump my position of shaq and kobe together. shaq has earned praise that this blog refuses to acknowledge. kobe has NOT earned the praise that this blog readily pushes.

all i'm saying is kobe hasn't really done anything as a laker without shaq. last season was a breakout season. i give credit to kobe, but in the whole scheme of things (ie, laker history), what has kobe ackomplished as a "man"?

my response:

No one has said Shaq didn't do good things in LA. Your
constant ridiculing of Kobe is factually biased and
un-sound.

http://tinyurl.com/4xjwec

This link from the NBA says: he was chosen as one of the NBA’s 50 Greatest Players of All-Time in 1996 and was a seven-time All-Star, including the game’s MVP in 1994. [ scottie Pippen ]

This is who MJ played with when he won 6
championships. Has Kobe played with anyone of this
caliber? Yes. Shaq. 4 years ago.

Regardless of what thekobebryantblitz thinks about
Lamar Odom the fact is that Lamar Odom has
accomplished nothing close to what Pippen did.

Did MJ ever play with someone as ... "interesting" as
Smush Parker? What did MJ do with Kwame Brown?

Ok. I'm focusing on MJ. Let's not do that. Let's focus
on Shaq.

Has Shaq ever scored 80 pts in an NBA game? How about
30 pts in a quarter? How about a perfect quarter?

Well, how diligent is Shaq about becoming a better
basketball player? NBA 2007/2008 phx vs. spurs.
Coach Popovich employed the hack-a-shaq technique
and the spurs beat the suns. 15 years in the league
and he still can't shoot free throws. Do you find this
praiseworthy?

Do you find Shaq's restraining order praiseworthy?
In case you've forgotten, he threatened a female
rapper. [ the fact that Kobe went to trial for rape sucks.
the fact that the case was dismissed lends credit to his
innocence. since a restraining order was issued for
shaq he wasn't found innocent. ]

Do you find Shaq's divorce praiseworthy?

Shaq dogged it with the Miami Heat until he was traded
and then suddenly he began to play. Is this praisworthy?

Yes. He was part of a championship team with the
Miami Heat. D-Wade won the finals MVP not Shaq.
Is it praiseworthy to you that Shaq did *NOT* win the
finals MVP? Do you think that D-Wade won the
finals MVP because of Shaq?

This is what Kobe has accomplished without Shaq:

81 pt. game.
2 time scoring champion.
3 trips to the playoffs
1 trip to the NBA finals.
1 mvp.
1 Olympic championship

This url: http://tinyurl.com/2nmd9z from espn says:

He was the fastest player to 20,000 points
one of the best two-way players at any position.
He was voted as being better than Jerry West.

This url: http://tinyurl.com/3f7d29 says:

Shaq is #5 behind Wilt, Kareem, Russell, &
George Mikan.

You can argue that they were all ahead of his time.
Granted. #6 on the list is: Hakeem Olajuwon

Do you remember what happened when Shaq met
Hakeem in the NBA finals? He got spanked. He got
spanked so bad he cried. http://tinyurl.com/53lmbj
Is that praiseworthy to you?

In terms of NBA championships the record is:

Wins Losses Player
3 2 kb
4 2 the fat man

In terms of NBA scoring tittles, the record is:

1 for the fat man
2 for Kobe.

In terms of NBA all-star MVP's the record is:

2 for the wannabee rap star
2 for Kobe.

In terms of NBA all-defense selection wikipedia has:
0 for the donut eater
8 for Kobe.
[ In case you haven't figured it out, that means kb got
3 without dealing with the unofficial Krispy Kreame CEO ]

In terms of NBA MVP's, the record is:

1 for the fat criminal
1 for kb24.

Finally, please name me one MVP, not on Shaq's team,
who says he's the best player in the game?

You do know what LeBron said about Kobe, right?
You caught what Larry Bird said about Kobe, right?
Coach K?

This list is a bit longer, but I trust I've made my point....

Finally, this is the best part:

You're donut eating, rapper stalking, bad movie making,
throwing former teams & teammates under the buss
( inclusive of HOF coaches/championship players ) has
2 years of declining production left for the phx suns.
KB has 6-8 years of playing at a high level in which he will hopefully win 6 championships. [ I said hopefully. :) ]

Why don't you go get a box of Krispy Kreams and search
online for one of Shaq's horrendously bad movies to
watch? Then you can think back on glory days when
Shaq was relevant to "who's going to win the
NBA championship conversations".

Hey LakerTom;

I suggested that you come down from your spaceship and have an adult beverage - not hit the photon torpedos on another rather vicious attack. KL is smooth and opinionated - big deal. You are plain silly with most of your homer comments. Which crack did you come out from? We know your view - you don't have to tell us 15 times a blog. Geez!

The hobbitimage hath spoken. I will now tip a beer in your general direction, my friend.

Go Lake Show!

Some musings and ramblings ... Not worried about what Kobe does at the end of his contract. The NBA is like dating: enjoy the hot girl you're with when you're with her. ... Kobe did achieve something without Shaq: a Gold Medal ... Josh Howard is a tool. How dare he spew such venom in public? He's not an important spokesperson or celebrity. He plays for the Mavericks. That's a team that's more famous for its owner than its accomplishments. ... A ten game suspension for Darius Miles seems a little light. Pro athletes give up their right to enjoy a spliff when they sign that big contract. ... Can't wait for Lakers camp to begin. ... Have a great weekend, everybody.

Why don't you go get a box of Krispy Kreams and search online for one of Shaq's horrendously bad movies to watch? Then you can think back on glory days when Shaq was relevant to "who's going to win the NBA championship conversations".

Posted by: hobbitmage | September 20, 2008 at 01:05 PM

Kudos hobbitmage. I almost thought it was AK biatchslapping KL again.

Yo KL, "Head on, apply directly to your forehead, Head on apply directly to your forehead,Head on....................."

lol.

hobbitmage speaks for me.

hobbitmage for white house press secretary!

thekobebryantblitz,

I see your point about Jordan Farmar as point guard and Lamar Odom as point forward on the second team potentially being a problem. However, perhaps something could be worked as Farmar is more an aggressive cocky leader and Lamar Odom more of a quiet leader. Perhaps a dynamic could be established where they could compliment each other through a lot of ball movement.

Just a thought.

GO LAKERS!

By the way, it is very difficult to be a UCLA Bruins football fanatic right now.

GO BRUINS!

GO LAKERS!

Jon K,

"How would playing in Europe (or abroad in general) affect Kobe's endorsement income? And if it did affect his endorsement income, could you guys give a very rough estimate to the degree that it might positively or negatively affect his income in that regard?"

Honestly, I can't answer that question with any real knowledge. I can't even think of a precedent to make an educated against. Off the top of my head, I think it depends a lot on how much access Americans would have to Kobe's games. As it stands, it's much easier for someone in Europe to see the NBA on TV than vice versa. Thus, if Kobe's going to be largely out of sight stateside, I have to imagine that's a big minus. Basketball, while big overseas, is still biggest in America, so I don't see why Nike- or whoever- would pay as much or more to a guy whose visibility would have a net decrease worldwide.

Then again, Hollywood actors get paid boatloads to do commercials in places like Japan, so maybe Kobe would make the same (or even more) endorsing products known almost exclusively abroad (as opposed to the Nikes and Cokes of the world).

My gut is that playing overseas would hurt Kobe's endorsement ability more than help it. But again, like I said, I'm mostly spitballing. I'm not really the guy to ask.

AK

I really want to see how the lineup with Lamar, Bynum, and Gasol works, and I hope it does work well. I love Lamar, and I really hope he can a be a Laker for the rest of his career. Still if it does not work I have a trade that I think would be very good: http://tinyurl.com/4l9c6t . We would probably need to give the Pacers draft picks in order for this to work. Wouldn't we have only Josh Powell to back up Pau at the four. For that we could use another trade: http://tinyurl.com/4bep5m . I really don't know if either of these are very fair for our trading counterparts, but we did get Pau for Kwame Brown, so God must be a Laker fan.

AK,

Thanks for the feedback.

GO LAKERS!

All I wanna say is I think the current thread is a waste of time ...

kb24 wants to be the greatest player ever to touch a basketball ... it's only right that he do so by leading the greatest franchise in the league, it's only right that he do so by being a part of the greatest dynasty the league will know

I've been watching highlights on you-tube, just search for lakers 08-09 and enjoy, feel the pride, feel the aniticipation ... and let me just touch on another topic as well ... I dont lamar to be traded ... Artest would have made a great addition but I mean this team has earned the right to stay intact ... they're good enough to win, they've got heart ...

And the omens are good too, the last 3peat, I was living in Chicago then ... and guess what I just moved back to chitown ... I can't wait for the season to start ...

So F europe and w/e else people are using to kill time ... think kobe ... think 5 more season mvps ... maybe 6 finals mvp ... think say 5 or 6 more championships ... I mean aint nothing in Europe can top that ... this is it, this is the moment we've all been waiting for ... this is when the world finally acknowledges what we all know already

http://tinyurl.com/54bn9t
http://tinyurl.com/4p6gn7

We all screaming dynasty but truth is there the competition in the west go better and if we make it out of the west there's a good chance we'll see the celtics again. Lets not take anything from what they did, they beat us with bynum in the regular season, they beat us with gasol in the post season, and through all the games they showed our lauded offense why they're the best defense in the league

http://tinyurl.com/4cvqbt

So while it may seem to us like a new dynasty is destined be ours, let us not forget it will not be easy but then again we wouldn't have it any other way. Laker nations remembers and inspite of that, we scream dynasty, we believe.

KL, what has Kobe done as a man?

he has worked his butt off.

asking that question puts your manhood on hold, boy.

The truth is that none of us knows what Kobe would do. Kobe probably doesn't know what Kobe would do. There's variables here. What happens if he wins mvp PLUS a ring this year? Is he going to look around and wonder, what mountain next? Is it more rings, more records or something else. What would create the biggest seismic wave? My guess is that he'll keep everyone guessing. High wire acts are like that.

Bring back Sunderland......fire Joel Myers

wesjoenixon,

you wrote: The trade machine likes this trade:

Dwane Wade for Jordan Farmar and Pau Gasol.

Can you imagine the one two punch of Kobe and Wade? We saw what they did in the olympics, and the heat get a true 7 footer and Farmar...

my response: Does that trade work for Lamar Odom too?
If we had a choice b/n Odom & Pau I would prefer for Pau
to stay. We *seem* to have less in the way of quality
centers than forwards.

Jon K,

You asked how going to Europe would change Kobe's marketability.

It most certainly would. As you know, there's a large contingency in the U.S. that view Kobe in a negative way. Between Kate Faber and Shaq's outburst, the general public perceives Kobe as a selfish ego maniac. Thus, your KL types. Only those that truly pay attention to the game know any better.

Kobe used to be bigger than even that Bron guy in endorsements. He had that wholesome image. Now he's not much more marketable than AI. Faber and Shaq cost Kobe more money than he could ever hope to earn in Europe.

But, in Europe, Kobe hasn't been the victim of media scrutiny. Besides, their culture in Europe is far different than it is here. They're a little more progressive over there socially. Kobe in Europe would mean getting some of that marketability back.

But that's just my view, of course.

BK,

you wrote: There's a difference between international play and the quality of the leagues. Europe is definitely able to assemble very strong national squads, but the quality of the individual leagues isn't close to what the NBA has. It just isn't. The right comparison would be teams in the leagues to teams in the NBA, and not teams in the NBA to the nationa