Hey butler in case you were wondering when to accept the Shaq trade as an official failure heres a few warning signs to watch out for...

1)Shaq accuses Steve nash of being selfish and 'not playing within the offense'

2)Following an early december pre xmas team get together at Steve Nash's house,Steves 2005 MVP award mysteriously disapears...

3)Shaq calls Eric Piatowski 'the best forward I ever played with'

4)Shaq demands a trade to the lakers stating that he realises Kobe makes a pretty good second banana after all

5)Alternatively Shaq demands the suns trade Nash for Luke Walton - who he describes as 'a guy who can get me the ball'

6)Shaq rugby tackles Dwight Howard mumbling something about superman and how he led Orlando to the finals in his third year

7)Shaq screams at Colangelo during a pre-season game demanding a massive contract extension


8)Shaq discusses candidly his admiration for Boris Diaws work ethic

9)Shaq receives a restraining order against the suns statistician for allegedly sending an email threatening to destroy his career with a graphic image attatched after the statistician refused to give Shaq the password to the 'Suns Personal Statistics page

10) Shaq starts referring to amare Stoudemire as his 'little brother'

After 20 seasons, all with the Lakers, Kobe will retire at the age of 38 after passing Kareem on the all-time scoring list.

The word has been spoken. Amen.

kobe ain't going to Europe to play ball and if he does before bringing LA a championship, it'll only add fuel to my position that kobe is way overrated and hasn't really done anything without shaq.

LTLF, thank you for the posts on the last thread.

repost

LTLF,

first off, thank you for all of the feedback.

i'll respond to the one i find most interesting.

"So are you denying that the Celtics threw 3 or 4 guys
at Kobe every time he touched the ball? Did you
actually watch the finals? Kobe didn't say "my teammates
sucked", he just pointed out the truth -- that the Celtics
threw multiple guys on him on defense."

the reason i'm so hard on kobe is that kobe compares himself to jordan which displays kobe's arrogance (not the same as confidence). note, i'm not saying fans compare kobe to jordan which is entirely different.

i've always believed the reason kobe is disliked my some (perhaps most) is his arrogance.

as far as the celtics throwing "3-4" guys at him, that's not true. if that were true, then there would have been a 4-1 break the entire series, right?

the C's played solid "team" defense and kobe's responsibility was to make plays for himself and his teammates, like shaq did during those championship years. 2004 doesn't count because kobe was trying way too hard to be the proverbial “man”.

back to the jordan versus kobe comparison (not much of a comparison because Jordan far exceeds what kobe can ever do). jordan had "3-4" guys thrown at him all the time and the Bulls still won each and every year when jordan was playing in the finals.

jordan didn't make excuses that they were throwing "3-4" guys at him. didn't kobe make a comment like "i get score at will" against the spurs? why make comments like that? just score at will and win the game.

i still don't like kobe albeit not as much as before.

i still think kobe's a fool and a pretentious.

i'll add a very, very rich fool and a very, very good basektball player.

haha

Kiwi sez:

"Hey butler in case you were wondering when to accept the Shaq trade as an official failure heres a few warning signs to watch out for..."

Pretty good! Although colangelo is no longer the owner.

Here's what I can add:

Top signs the Shack trade was an official failure for the lakers:

1) Continued streak of no more rings since Shack's departure
2) Shack and Nash eliminate the lakers from the playoffs in 2009
3) bynum and odum get traded for marc gasol

"Kobe isn't a whore."

Well knee surgeries unknown to Team Officials in Colorado changed that.

Drum crash please...

bK,

you wrote: Should it happen, though, it won't enhance his basketball legacy, only his wallet.

my response: I actually disagree with you.

1st. It's *never* been done before.
2nd. NBA champion. European champion. Olympic Champion. 2 scoring titles. 1 mvp. That's 3 different
types of championship.
3. It actually would increase the level of basketball
over there. It could act as a funnel to the NBA. Play
for Kobe's team. Mitch comes to 3 games a year as a
scout for the Lakers.

You can make the argument that the NBA is a better
but wasn't it Spain playing team USA in the Olympic
finals and hanging around until the 2 min. mark?

Wasn't it Team USA { NBA } who got schooled by
Greece a couple of years ago? Did Greece have
*any* NBA players?

You can also make the argument that as a whole,
europe has better basketball fundamentals then
the NBA. i.e. We play a more 1-on-1 style.

Would the Clippers have beaten Spain? No. Would the
Miami Heat have beaten Spain? No. Kings? Suns? Bucks?

Just my 2 cents.

Outlaw,
Danny Ainge didn't run in from the next room with a wheelchair?

KL,

I can appreciate that you don't like Kobe. Yeah, I've read all of your anti-Kobe posts. No worries. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But some of your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired. 4-1 break? Do you play basketball? Do you study the game of basketball? That's simply not how it works. And, yes, the Celtics loaded up their defense on Kobe, and the Lakers did a poor job of adjusting.

You also state that Kobe compares himself with Jordan. That's just not the case. Kobe shrugs off comparisons. In a recent interview, Kobe made it a point to say, "Why? Why? I'm not Jordan. I'm Kobe. We're totally different players." He also mentioned, on more than one occasion, that it is an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence as MJ. Arrogance? No, man. That's just not it. Kobe is cocky, but most highly skilled athletes are. That's part of what it takes to be great. You HAVE to know that you're better than the guy guarding you. Think Jordan didn't know it? Think again.

I know you don't like Kobe. Fine. But you continuously misrepresent his character, and that's not okay. You don't know him. And neither do I. But I love to watch him play the game of basketball, more than any other player. And I believe that Kobe has matured gracefully. Believe it or not, people DO change. Come on. Look at you. You're back on the blog, right?

Go Lake Show!

Who do you guys think you are saying if Kobe does this then he's that and so on and so forth. Wow KL--I see you've returned from the rock under which you were hiding for Kobe's entire MVP season. I wonder what does that make you? Wow you are so hard on kobe, yah, you are HARD on kobe alright---hope you're smart enough to figure that one out, I helped you by putting the word HARD in all caps.

If he goes to Europe let him go...and you still think Shaq would have won a title in LA if he never had a player like Kobe....maybe you were in a coma when he and the Magics were in the finals....ESPN classics will fill you in...you think Shaq is any better than Kobe. Here is a guy who has played with the greatest player in the game and the greatest coach in the game...TWICE--meaning when he was with the lakers Phil Jackson was in Shaq's eyes the greatest coach, and Kobe was the greatest shooting guard...then he leaves the Lakers and suddenly Jackson is Benedict Arnold and Kobe could tell him how his a**hole tastes. Then he gets to Miami, praises the franchise, Pat Riley and Wade becomes the greatest coach and player then he bad mouths them after he leaves. Oh did I mention the Magics and Penny? Yah, if Shaquille O'neal is not the biggest flip-flopper in America then John Kerry is a conservative and Rush Limbaugh is a Liberal. He just turns around and bashes them when he doesn't get his way. Shaq is over, get over him.

Now on to Kobe, 50 mil so what. Desrespect the Europeans, its an American thing. We disrespect what we don't know because if it is not America then its not good. And that goes for you too AK, I dare Commish Stern...replace or even add two of the better European teams in the Eastern Conference (that's still a part of the NBA...right?) and run them through a season, I bet you one or even two of those European teams take two out of eight spots in the playoffs. So don' t st there and say things like 'NBA quality this, NBA quality that' The world isn't that big and isolated anymore, they are getting better...the only sports safe in our pockets are Football and Baseball. Well if Kobe's status would be negated by the "low-class" competition level in Europe then what does that say about Lebron James in the Eastern Conference, not alot of people subtract from his "greatness" because he took his team to the Finals out of a lowly conference versus Paul Pierce who needed two perennial All-Stars versus Kobe who needed three years Pau Gasol and the ability to trust his teammates. At the rate at how this country's economy is going down the toilet, I wouldn't wanna stick around either I would go where the pastures are greener. Guess what, the guy is thirty he has about 7 or maybe eight years left in the tank, what is he gonna do after the league...he has to and should consider family and get as finacially comfortable as possible, God knows how much crappier things are going to get.

Do I think he will...nah, because every year some idiot rattles off their mouth and he loves coming back with a chance to shut them up...this year Paul Pierce and Shaq top that list. Kobe still has the time on his side to stuff at least four more championships in the mouths of those who trash...and as long as he has that chance to make people like KL tell him how his a** tastes then he will stick around in the NBA...plain and simple.

Oh and by the way, lets just say Kobe compares himself to Michael Jordan...you must never in your life have anybody, family member or adult who you saw live their life a certain way and say "damn I could be like him...I could be better than him."---Tell me, what is wrong with that? Nothing is new under the sun!

Are you going to knock me because I sit back and watch the way my squad leader leads by example, her decisiveness, and all those other things that makes her probably the best non-commissioned officer in my unit and I when I got promoted to Sergeant I said to her "I could be as good as you are, but I won't settle for that, I am going to be better than you and although you're retiring in november, you'll live long enough to know it"---are you going to knock me for that? Really?

Lets play devil's advocate KL and say Kobe does look in the mirror and say I gotta be like Mike, I gotta be better than him. So the piss what! Is Jordan God, and even the bible tells Christians to "be perfect, just as their heavenly father was perfect."---if you base your hatred for Kobe on those then damn man. Its ok...I still respect you though...assuming you are a Laker fan, and even if you aren't I still respect you because you're a fan of the game.

Charles,

Kobe Bryant doesn't think like most of us.

Most of us think "Wow! $30 million dollars to play basketball and hang out in my villa on the Italian riveria! What a life! That would be awesome!"

Kobe Bryant thinks "I want to be remembered as the Greatest player in the history of basketball. I want to remembered as THE BEST and I will work my ass off and do anything I can to get there!"

That does not include lounging in the sun on the Italian riveria. That DOES include obsessively working towards a goal and consistently playing at the highest level of competition possible.

To quote the Immortal BK, when it comes to playing in Europe BK: "Should it happen, though, it won't enhance his basketball legacy, only his wallet."

Sure Kobe likes to make money. Who doesn't? But the single greatest motivation in this guy's life is to build his legacy.

That's it.

He's a complete competitive lunatic and I love him for it.

GO LAKERS!

KL

no offense intended, and clearly none taken.

I just find it interesting that you feel the need to respond to "ridiculous" statements with "ridiculous" statements in kind. It seems a little odd to me.

I honestly don't think Kobe is better than jordan. I measure greatness by winning, that's what the competition is designed for. We can talk all day about game, talent, potential and a million other tangible aspects of the team sport. The bottom line is those conversations are not futile, they are merely warm-ups to actual competition. You can talk all you want, but who wins ultimately decides who is better. Much like Kobe's comment about the Celtics this year.

I love kobe, first because he was a Laker. then I loved him for his game, then I loved him for his work ethic, now I love him for his legend.

BUT... He is not better than Jordan. Jordan won six. Kobe's got work to do before the argument heats up. I'm not sure he'll do it. But I sure hope he does, because he wears my colors, represents my "region" and plays with his heart out there on the floor all the time (same reason I love AI but can't stand vince, love guys like turiaf and fish, and can't stand the kwam/smush).

Sorry to ramble so much, I know I'm all over the place. Bottom line, I don't think Kobe's statement threw his teammates under the buss, I think he said he got overwhelmed and outplayed, and that OUR team needs to shore up our D and our Rebounding (bynum hopefully) to become the better team, rather than hope to upset the better team.
Even if you don't agree with his statement I just can't understand how consciously flawed adversarial statements are a rational response. But hey if that's your MO that's cool with me. Just calling it how I see it.

good man, good convo. Its nice talking with someone across an ideological line with some rational thoughts. Keep up the good work.

puddle,

>>>>>After 20 seasons, all with the Lakers, Kobe will retire at the age of 38
>>>>>after passing Kareem on the all-time scoring list.

I think Kobe just might play until he is 38. Drew would then just be 28 and really in his prime. So how many championships could Kobe conceivably win in the next 8 years if he and Drew both stay healthy. At least 4 in my opinion and maybe 5 or 6, for a career total of 7 to 9 rings.

If Kobe could accomplish that, he would rank right up there with MJ when his career was over. But think of this, if Kobe wins say 5 more rings, that will mean that Drew would have 5 rings by the time he was 28. How many rings he could conceivably win is, well, inconceivable.

Tom

LakerTom

I hope your right. Although I see the idea of kobe taking a paycut unlikely to happen. He is going to be 31 by then and this will be his last big contract (unless he goes oversee's). I think how well lamar plays this season will play a role in whether kobe takes a paycut to stay here or not, that, and winning the championship of course.

Go Lakers

TrueLakerFan,

>>>>>I hope your right. Although I see the idea of kobe taking a paycut unlikely to happen.
>>>>>He is going to be 31 by then and this will be his last big contract.

I haven’t seen what a max contract for Kobe would be if he opts out at the end of this year. Or how many years. For some reason, I am thinking that 7 years may be max and maybe $200M total? So maybe Kobe agrees to take $160M with the understanding that the team will use the $40M over 7 years to reward or keep other players. I think the PR value of such a move would be worth the $40M. How better to prove what a team players he is. Maybe, I am dreaming but such a move would put him in a new light to the public as well as his teammates. And a great way to make sure everybody will still want to pass him the ball. LOL. And like Gilbert said, how much difference can $160M vs. $200M really make on your lifestyle. That $40M might be the best investment Kobe ever made. It might end up anchoring his legacy. What a contrast from the “billionaire” aspirations of LeBronze. And $40M would top the $30M that Arenas left on the table with the Wizards. Do it, Kobe. You’re reading this. I know. Just do it!

Tom

Why do you guys even entertain the thoughts of this nonsense. Mamba has an ocean full of fish to fry and it will take more than a season to fry them. Opt out to play against weaker competition you've got to be kidding me.

kobe was just on Charlie Rose in the east coast feed, so check it out on the west coast feed - it's the second part of the show, also with Kidd and duke/usa coach - mostly about US squad, but nice segment none the less

I'm not an accountant, nor a foreign exchange expert...but the dollar doesn't go far in Europe. Yes, I know, his team, may actuality be HIS team if he makes the move, will be picking up alot of tabs for housing, more Italian cars, and private school for the kiddies, but take a look at what it costs to buy one Euro, (I know he ain't going to London, unless it's in 2012), but take a look to see what it costs to buy one British Pound. It hurt me and I make decent income...money's not the issue, he's pickin up more endorsements, will probably get a real good renewal from Nike on his next shoe contract, and his shoes are way better than Jordan's (looks, comfort, wear, costs, etc)...Nike hasn't even tapped into his earnings potential...soon kids will not know of the greatness of Jordan, so there may be a shift for Nike to push Kobe's stuff more,...and we all can't wear 3 lbs shoes like LeBron...only a stud like him can...

Whatever makes him happy, the Lakers can succeed with or without him, and I'd say in the game of Life, he's winning over Shaq...Kobe finally grew up, Shaq never will...and let's forget about last year's finals, it's over. We lost, it's going to be a new season, with all new team. The Knicks will suck as usual, and that coach of theirs better stock up on his Grecian formula, cuz the press is going to ream him,....maybe Shaq will ask him what it tastes like, cuz he always badmouths former people in his life...

Maybe I better get in line now for the Jordan XXXII, because that'll be a special one, you know, because it's his jersey number backwards, and I just can't wait for the XLV, because he wore number 45 when he came back from baseball, which is one boring game, with too much jewelry...

hman

Ok, ok , ok.

Now I get it.

On his off-time, kobey jumps over moving cars and thumps his chest and toots his horn.

On his off time, Shack does things like this (video at the bottom of the page after the SUNS article):
http://tinyurl.com/44vtfu

Shack is such a clown that he naturally absorbed so much attention in the lakers locker room from whoever was there...and kobey doesn't clown around.

The quality of the the euro leagues are severly diminished by the fact that of the top 100 euro players, at least 75 of them are playing in the NBA, which makes the NBA that much more superior. The world talent may have closed the gap on the American talent over the last 20 yrs., but the world leagues are at least 10-15yrs behind the NBA. Going from the NBA to a euro league would be like going from an all-star starter on the Varsity team to the B team in high school.

Just look at the Spanish Olympic team,at least 6 or 7 of their 12 players either play in the NBA or are NBA caliber players. Most of the 11 other Olympic teams had at least 1 NBA player. As far as I can recall the only NBA player the 1992 Olympic team faced was Sarunus Marciulionis of the Ukraine team.

If Kobe does wind up going to play in europe it will have nothing to do with playing basketball and everything to do with money, marketing and trying to become a world icon. It would be an attempt to reach the lofty elevation of say Tiger Woods, Beckham or Micheal Schumacher(google it). I don't think any league in europe could actually foot the bill. It would most likely bankrupt the league he would sign with.

Basketball has a long way to go to challenge soccer over there. Some soccer teams over there are worth over a billion dollars. I think you would have hard time finding a basketball team worth more than $50M over there let alone paying 1 player $50M a year. I think Beckham's $250M deal with the MLS will eventually be viewed as the deal that killed the MLS. I don't think the MLS has even a slim chance of recouping the money they pay him. Has the MLS ever made a profit?

If a league over there is dumb enough to pay Kobe or any top NBA player $50M a year, I wont blame him for taking the money. Put yourself in his shoes. If you are making $100K a yr. and another company in another state offers to pay you $250K a yr. tax free, you would be a fool to not take it for at least a year or two.

ron shalom

"Wow KL--I see you've returned from the rock under which you were hiding for Kobe's entire MVP season."

by "rock" are you referring to the k-buddies? i wasn't hiding, i was taking my punishment like man.

LakerTom,
"that would re-define most people’s opinion of and respect for Kobe."

Unfortunately, I don't think it would. I think that there are two main reasons why people dislike Kobe: resentment for daring to approach, and arguably reaching, the level of Michael Jordan, and that "selfish ball-hog" image cemented in their minds when he waved off Karl Malone's screen in the All-Star game. Kobe could win five more titles and those people would make up reasons not to like him. You can see it here on the blog with some of the posters.

LakerTom - puleeze already. How many titles are Kobe and AB going to win? How many so far? You are, as always, too over the top. The NBA is a hard friggin' league with a lot of combos vying for the supreme prize - come down out of your spaceship and have an adult beverage.

BUTLER - you make a good point, all the best Euro players are in the NBA, so the Euro leagues don't even have the best Euro's playing in it! I would think the top European team would be hard-pressed to win 15 games in the NBA - even in the Leastern Conference.

I do think however that the Galaxy has made a great move in signing Beckham to the $250-mil over 5 year contract. How come? Well, if you just saw the Forbes highest-value franchise list a couple days ago, the Galaxy are far and away the highest at $100-mil worth, more than double the next valuable MLS franchise.

Also, they lead the league in home attendance, as well as away attendance. They also played 6 or so games in asia and australia/new zealand at the end of last year and got about a million per each of those games - something no other MLS team has the star power to be able to do.

Most importantly, Becks contract has about paid for itself, he gets paid like $6-mill guaranteed a year, the rest is from increased endorsements, etc... He has sold I believe 3/4 of a million jerseys throughout the world, and that is a lot of revenue he has produced for the Galaxy who normally would not be selling jerseys in asia or europe for example. So the Galaxy didn't only get Becks the player, they got Brand-Beckham that is a major money-maker for the team.

We all saw how the Chinese reacted to Kobe during the Olympics, heck he got the highest amount of cheers of any athlete I saw outside of Yao during the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. In fact, I think Kobe single-handedly helped the U.S. get the loudest applause besides home-team China (and did you see Putin's face when the U.S. team entered to a massive roar a couple of countries after Russia entered to a light, polite applause? hehe...) If the Chinese had a more developed basketball league and paid him mega-millions above his Laker contract, he might be tempted to go there and become the biggest athlete in the biggest country in the world. Imagine the 10's of millions in endorsements he could make in Asia if he did that!!!

Kobe is like Tiger in golf, or Ronaldhino was - Ronaldo is now in soccer. No american baseball player or football player could be as big in Europe, basically the biggest U.S. athletes are currently Tiger and Kobe. Only Kobe could go over there and become a sensation, and one of those rich European owners could try to lure Kobe, perhaps giving him a slice in their business and letting him become the face of their product.

If say a 2 year stay in Europe could make Kobe over $100-mill free and clear of taxes, I mean who couldn't pass that up? That is the same as a $200-mill contract here in the U.S. It would be like MJ taking 2 years off to play baseball, then come back to the NBA to a heroes welcome!

I think it is possible if the Lakers win a championship and it would allow Kobe to walk away for a year or two on top. That would be the only way I see it possibly happening, and he still would need some rich European owner to offer him that, which I find would be doubtful. So I think it could happen, but may only be a 1% chance or so...