The Spanish team responds

Just two quick comments:

1. There is no way that they didn't understand the stupidity of what they were doing, period.

2. Can you imagine if this had been the USA Basketball team??????

Just think about that one for a second.

"Laker PF/C Pau Gasol admitted being uncomfortable with the pic from the start and regretted not putting the kibbosh on the proceedings."

Oh, so Pau was "uncomfortable"? So he knew it was a racist thing. He objected? And objected again?

Well, what can we expect for someon who's so soft? Quit pushing me! OK, I'll let you through.

I thought Gasol's problem was his body type but from what I've read I can see it also has to do with his mind.

The guy should have just walked away from the photo shoot. And when they asked him about it he should have said it was something he opposed. But just like against the Celtics in the finals...he just let himself get pushed around.

mike t.

AK,
"often achieved brilliance while provoking thought "

Provoking thought, or doing something to get a laugh? In general, I think the latter. Which isn't necessarily bad.

Do you feel the same way about Andrew Dice Clay's humor from 10-15(?) years ago, which poked fun at characteristics of black culture in the U.S.?

If the Chinese basketball team took a picture with eyes wide open in an exaggerated pose, would anyone be squawking?

Soooft!

mike t.

The guy should have just walked away from the photo shoot. And when they asked him about it he should have said it was something he opposed. But just like against the Celtics in the finals...he just let himself get pushed around.
mike t.
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | August 13, 2008 at 12:52 PM

I completely agree...sorta how Kwame "Could have" opted to not slam cake in a mans face..but he did so anyway..but since I never heard your take on that ill take this comment with a grain of salt.

And speaking a Chapelle...anyone remember him playing a blind black guy who was a Klan member then lost his mind when he found out he was actually black..then divorsed his wife for liking blackmen! Haha classic..anyway next subject

Mychal Thompson and the other person on his show this afternoon were discussing this. Thompson made the point that, overall, the U.S. is the least racist society in the world. (Which is probably true.) Then they started talking about how 8/8/08 was considered an exceptionally lucky day in China, and Thompson was asked what the "lucky numbers" were in the Bahamas. He said that "people in the Bahamas didn't believe in luck, just in prayer and working hard. If they worked at all." OF course, that statement is "racist" because it promotes a negative stereotype. Is Thompson "racist"?

And why is squinting your eyes "racist"? Mimicking a physical characteristic is racist? Why is that?

Wait a minute. Wasn't the picture theme suggested by a big money sponsor of the team? So we can't blame the Spanish team of evil intent. We can blame them for their lack of fortitude and foresight they should have used to not perform the silly stunt. But the two are not the same.

Ex,

"Provoking thought, or doing something to get a laugh? In general, I think the latter. Which isn't necessarily bad. Do you feel the same way about Andrew Dice Clay's humor from 10-15(?) years ago, which poked fun at characteristics of black culture in the U.S.? If the Chinese basketball team took a picture with eyes wide open in an exaggerated pose, would anyone be squawking?"

I'm probably the wrong person to ask the first question, since I don't think Andrew Dice Clay has ever experienced a funny day in his life, save his pre-fame cameo in "Pretty in Pink" and the "Ford Fairlane" pitch meetings, which must have been unintentionally hysterical.

But generally speaking, I think Dice's humor hit the most obvious points in stereotypical and predictable ways without really "saying much." In my mind, that's different than someone like Chappelle pushing the edge through examination. As opposed to Dice, who is simply pushing the lines of good taste. The latter can be done by anybody. The former takes talent.

In terms of the "eyes wide open" Chinese team photo scenario, I don't think the example works, because to the best of my knowledge, Americans have never been made fun of for their eyes. Thus, I'm guessing it would come across more just totally random and bizarre, as opposed to potentially offensive.

AK

AK,
"I agree with people who claim this photo doesn't represent true "racism," but rather racial insensitivity. "

When the Spanish crowd chanted "monkey" at black soccer players, was that a form of racism or just racial insensitivity? My take is it was both racially insensitve and a form of racism.

I already know how many of the bloggers that defended the Spanishi team yesterday would respond. They would make IGNORANT excuses for the Spanish team such as:
-Oh, it's just cultural differences, no big deal.
- "Monkey" was meant be funny.
-I'm half black and I thought it was funny.
-Blacks are racist also, so what't the big deal.
-Blacks are just being overly sensitive.
-Whoever thinks this statement was racist is a racist themselves (posted by ex)..... WOW!
-Other people do it so it's ok.

Dear bloggers,
Please, if you come up with any more ignorant excuses for this behavior, feel free to chime in.

hey, man. Love, joy and peace... love, joy and peace my brothers...

Gasol is obviously not a bad guy and it's not as easy as you think to tell a sponsor "no" on something. He's apologized so... what else do you want him to do?

Team USA covered up the logo of their one non-Nike player. The Spanish team did their photo at the request of their sponsor, Team USA covered up the logo of one player because of their sponsor. Sponsors demand things, it's not like the players have a lot of time or advance notice on things like this. Certainly, trying to gauge how people are going to react to a certain picture when your picture is taken almost daily by multiple cameras is asking a bit much, especially considering Gasol and crew don't work in advertising or marketing, they are basketball players, that's what they do, they play basketball... maybe more blame should go to their "people" who spend their days making money off the basketball players?

Have you guys seen the video of Janos Baranyai? Hoofa...

I like the irony of Mike T's racism coming through in a thread about racism.

First Pau's body is a problem, but this obviously must mean something is wrong with his brain? Awesome. You're the best Mike T.

Especially after Pau manhandled Yao Ming and had a kickass game...

Laker Truth,

"AK, "I agree with people who claim this photo doesn't represent true "racism," but rather racial insensitivity. "

When the Spanish crowd chanted "monkey" at black soccer players, was that a form of racism or just racial insensitivity? My take is it was both racially insensitve and a form of racism."

I hear what you're saying and I can respect that opinion. I just think the "monkey" example is considerably worse and was done with obvious ill-intent. If you don't agree, I honestly do understand. But that's where I think the difference lies.

AK

It's not the actual physical act of slanting the eyes that is offensive. It's the racist undertones and the message that act implies what makes it offensive. Giving someone the middle finger is offensive. Raising your ring finger is not even though it's basically the same thing(at least not that I'm aware of).

The is this classic movie called "Breakfast at Tiffany's". In this movie Mickey Rooney played a character named: Mr. Yunioshi. Ronney came out with the slanted eyes, thick glasses and buck teeth look to represent an oriental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakfast_at_Tiffany's

Criticism

Many critics consider the film's sole blunder to be Caucasian Mickey Rooney's "yellowfaced" performance as Holly's bucktoothed, stereotyped Japanese neighbor, a point of contention raised in the 1993 film Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, and on the March 17, 2008 episode of The Colbert Report. In the 45th anniversary edition DVD release, producer Richard Shepherd repeatedly apologizes for this, stating "If we could just change Mickey Rooney, I'd be thrilled with the movie." Edwards does not apologize for the portrayal, although he does say he would cast someone else if he had the chance.

The question would be this: What does sterotype actually mean? Because the Spainish team is guilty of sterotyping the Chinesse people.

What does it mean? Blacks don't have what it takes to be front office personal? 10 Hispanics live in the same house? When these type of sterotype are used what is meant by those discriptions? Is it a put down? Is it saying that blacks have mental limiations? Hispanics has limited capabilities to take care of themselves?

I don't know what is meant by all that. I do know that it's something that is a terrible description of the human potential of a group of human beings.

So when the Spainish team does the slanted eye thing: What are they trying to say? That Chinesse people are a joke because they have slanted eyes?

It makes no sense. I say that Spain is a elitist country in their own mind. Someone should tell them that Cortez is dead and they lost control of the world, if they ever had it, a long time ago. They are no longer a "cultured" society but a snobish society and that photo proves it. It's just part of their normal way of thinking.

mike t.

Ex,

I think you underestimate the true purpose of what Dave Chappelle was trying to achieve through his comedy. It was never about "just getting" a laugh for Dave. He was very pointed when discussing his reasons for leaving the show. In interviews after he returned from his trip to South Africa, he spoke about how troubled he became when in the middle of shooting the fairy skit from the lost season, he felt like someone was no longer laughing with him, but at him, and that disturbed him.

Dave's comedy was oftentimes biting and at times focused on our misgivings and prejudices, and how ignorant all of them can be. He made a skit about a blind, black, white-supremacist and you're gonna tell me he didn't have a message in mind?

LAKER TRUTH,

That ugly monkey incident is a whole different level of magnitude. People will still apologize for it, but if they're in the US, they're not going to apologize for it in as many ways as you described.

It's lame to make excuses for it at all. Even the obviously racial insensitive Spanish national basketball team would know better with that one, even under pressure from sponsors.

BTW, if you haven't, you should check out the SNL skit "White World." It's got Eddie Murphy in it spoofing the different roles of White people and Black people in society in an over the top way.

I looked for a youtube link, but couldn't find one.

Here's what I propose.

The Chinese team should pose for a photo with bullfighter
garb on in a provocative pose with one of them pretending
to be the bull. That should even things out a bit.

Mike t. uses the term "Oriental" then speaks about racist white people.

Today is quite the ironic day isn't it?

AK,
"Americans have never been made fun of for their eyes. "

Getting called "round eyes" would meet that criteria.

I think this is another example of a double-standard, where racial insensitivity by whites is assumed to stem from racism, but racial insensitivity by non-whites is not.

Chances are, some of the Spanish players probably are racist; European cultures have a greater tendency towards that than our own does (as do Asian cultures, as Benjamin noted.)

But assuming that making squinty eyes is racist in and of itself has no basis.

Mike T,

A very good example with "Breakfast at Tiffany's." The Rooney stuff is beyond painful to watch and really does put a stink on an otherwise classic film.

AK

"Because the Spainish team is guilty of sterotyping the Chinesse people."

Is it a valid stereotype? Yes. So would someone saying that Chinese people have straight, black hair.

Is it a stereotype to say that blacks have curly hair? Yes.

BK -

How successful was that troupe? Did you have any fun and engaging stories to tell about it?

Spain is like Rome. Rome ruled the world once. But that was a long time ago. But still, in the Italian mind, they take great pride in their history as contrbutors to the world.

Spain has the same lofty reflections of themselves. Awwwh! Remember when we just to be this and that? Awwwwh, the world owes our culture a great debt.

Suckers! You've been paid a million times over. Now get in the back of the line and shut up! You have no more influence in the world other than to complain about the way the world is today.

Rather than accept their lot in today's society they cling to the good old days when racism was just part of the norm.

That photo proves how their mind is conditioned to their everyday thoughts.

mike t.

Lets not forget that Spanish fans often throw bananas at black soccer players and make monkey sounds. I guess that's just being politically incorrect, right.

Pig
Some of Chappelle's stuff clearly is making a point. And a lot of it isn't. And Chapelle also makes fun of black culture; again -some of it is to make a point, and a lot of it isn't. Same thing as South Park or Saturday Night Live.

Was John Belushi racist for doing his samurai skits? I don't think so.

Or Eddie Murphy for doing his takeoffs on Mr. Rogers, with his "How to be a Ho" book? I don't think so.

Were they "making a point" or just trying to be funny?

PIcture the Spanish teams offensive photo and then:

Moon river, wider than a mile
I'm crossing you in style some day
Oh, dream maker, you heart breaker
Wherever you're goin', I'm goin' your way

Two drifters, off to see the world
There's such a lot of world to see
We're after the same rainbow's end, waitin' 'round the bend
My huckleberry friend, moon river, and me

(moon river, wider than a mile)
(I'm crossin' you in style some day)
Oh, dream maker, you heart breaker
Wherever you're goin', I'm goin' your way

Two drifters, off to see the world
There's such a lot of world to see
We're after that same rainbow's end, waitin' 'round the bend
My huckleberry friend, moon river, and me

mike t.

Damn! I think I'm a cultured guy. LOL!

Racial insensitivity is the precursor to racism. I can't believe how reluctant some of you are to admit that, yes, there are many people in this world who hate others based on their race.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that racism exist?

Another angle. From Merriam-Webster:

racism

Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of
human traits and capacities and that racial
differences produce an inherent superiority of a
particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so by making their eyes slanted, they did show a
belief that race is a primary determinant of a human trait,
having "almond shaped" eyes. Which it is. Does anyone
here deny that the shape of most oriental people is different
from that of occidental people?

But that alone doesn't establish racism. Did their pose
demonstrate somehow that they are superior to asian people?

That's the question.

By imitating the physical characteristics of some other race
(black face, slanting your eyes, making your teeth look
all messed up like Mike Myers does as Austin Powers,
etc) are you explicitly implying racial superiority? Or even
implicitly?

I'm not so sure. It's definitely a gray area.

If you do the characteristic and then say "lookie me lookie
me, I stoooopid Chineee man" or something, then yes, that
would be racist. But merely imitating the physical
characteristic is no more racist to me than John Kennedy
saying "Ich bin ein Berliner."

I would definitely say that their act could be construed as
being racially insensitive, but is it okay for Mike Myers
and Adam Sandler and Robert Downey, but not okay for
athletes?

My personal view is that people need to lighten up.

There are enough real problems in the world to get pissed about,
so why waste your emotion on a bunch of guys acting childish.
It's not like they were capturing Chinese people to bring
back to Spain as slaves or not giving a Chinese person
a job or tarring and feathering Chinese people and running
them out of town.

Ex,

"AK,
"Americans have never been made fun of for their eyes. "

Getting called "round eyes" would meet that criteria. I think this is another example of a double-standard, where racial insensitivity by whites is assumed to stem from racism, but racial insensitivity by non-whites is not."

"Round eyes" wasn't a double standard on my part. It honestly never popped into my head to begin with, since I've never heard a white person get referred to that way outside of a war movie from the Vietnam era or earlier. Perhaps that's just my experience, but I can also only go off my experiences.

At the same time, however, if the Chinese team took a picture like the one you described earlier (with eyes opened in exaggerated fashion) and called it "the round eye photo," I'm willing to bet it would have required some explaining. Especially with them as the hosts of this entire event. Do you honestly think otherwise?

AK

At minimum, the photo is insensitive to all people of asian descent. These are grown men who should've known that its just not cool to do something like that.

Aside from that, I'm licking my chops waiting for the Spain/USA matchup on Saturday. Look for Kobe to create a poster of the Gasol brothers. According to Pau, Kobe has been ribbing him about this matchup since Pau became a Laker. It'll be interesting to see how Spain handles the U.S. pressure defense. They have quality point guards, so the pressure may not work as well against them.

Regardless, I'm predicting the US wins by 20.

troy,

>>>Lets not forget that Spanish fans often throw bananas at
>>>black soccer players and make monkey sounds. I guess
>>>that's just being politically incorrect, right.

Thank you. This provides a perfect counterexample.

When Spanish fans do this, the intent is to imply that black
people are monkeys, thus implying racial superiority, aka
racism.

So how exactly does making their eyes slanted imply
racial superiority?

Long time laker fan,

Yes, you are right, no racial slurs were made. No spoken words of hurt or intent were used to castrate a whole continent of people.

However, clearly, the gesture was childish and thoughtless especially when you are in whole continent of people who are Asian... So far my impression of the Olympics is that China has gone out of its way to host and be hospitable to the global community.

A means of thanks (on behalf of the Spanish basketball team) by pointing out the way that they look different is certainly unwarranted and unkind to say the least.

hmmmm

Ex,

It seemed like that sentence you used was taken out of context. I agree that all of those comics were proving a point sometimes and other times not.

I guess I've lost where you're argument is.

Dave Chapelle is an amazing comedian, not matter how you slice it.

LTLF,

I agree with your take. It doesn't seem to have any malcontent behind it, so the pic is likely just in bad taste.

Most people throw the word racist around without even knowing what it really means. Usually, people are referring to prejudice or stereotype when they mention racism. Mike t. is a racist. The Spaniards are merely expressing prejudice and a bit of ignorance.

troy

Aren't you overreacting? No one says that racism doesn't exist. We've acknowledged it throughout this convo. We're arguing whether or not this qualifies. Read before you write.

AK:
I now want to hear all about your improv group!

I used to be in a band in the early '80s that specialized in being politically incorrect. I played and sang one of our satirical song at a campfire. The song poked equal fun both at a particular ethnic group and bigots. It backfired so completely, I thought I was on an episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm."

One of the funniest parodies I ever saw along these lines was on the "Ben Stiller Show." Stiller did a piece on "U2, the Early Years," playing a Bono who was only in it for the money. I sat with my mouth open as he sang a song hawking Lucky Charms.

Back to basketball: A funny SNL bit had Michael Jordan coming into an all white league, tranforming the game, and all his teammates (and announcers) hated it because it made them look bad.

Folks,

Let's lay off the "accusing each other of being racist" theme starting to form. We can agree to disagree without the disagreement automatically making the dissenter a racist.

AK

I'm so glad that we have such perfect people on this blog that have never done anything wrong or stupid like Michael T. clean as the wind driven snow, very Mary Poppins like, you know "practically perfect in every way"

how about it Michael, have you ever inadvertently offended someone???

ooooohhhhhhh! Basketball news!

Mo Williams to the Cavs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3533552

Bron Bron getting a little scoring help. Still doesn't put them above the Celtics.

you guys need to lighten up:

http://tinyurl.com/62ywch

The gesture is making a mockery of a physical trait. It is not a simple 'aw look how cute they are' gesture, or "it's true, so why would it be offensive?"
Try to spin it as harmless and, in the grand scheme of things, it probably is. But don't pretend it doesn't have any connotations of derogation.

As for whether any noise would be made if the Chinese did the same mocking Americans, some people seem to think not. I would disagree, but won't bother listing the reason unless anyone cares to ask.

how about it Michael, have you ever inadvertently offended someone???

Are you kidding me? I don't do anything inadvertently (pretty good word). If I have something to say. I say it!

Just ask AK, BK and anyone else. If I think you're trying to lay down a racist point of view...I SAY SO! And I don't use pretty words to get my point across.

Inadvertently...you've got to be kidding me.

mike t.

"practically perfect in every way"

Hey thanks! I do own the only Fatty ever given out. I also own the title: Smartest man in the world. I'm happy that you can see the "practically perfect in every way" side of me. But wait. That can be a side of me. I has to be the whole of me. That's because if it was just " a side of me" then I would be practically perfect in every way.

mike t.

Stereotypes in general are not the problem. It is a natural human tendancy to stereotype to some degree. It is how we oraganize--categorize-all kinds of things around us.
The further a subject is away from us, the more we tend to rely on some kind of sterotype to help us make sense of things. The closer we are to a subject the less likely we are to have a need to generalize.

Rainclouds produce rain. It is a good bet, but never a guarantee. Past behavior, predicts future behavior but not in every instance.

We talk statistics all the time on the blog; which takes stereotyping the mathmatical level. I can generate an idea-or an assumption--by the stat, but I will never truly know anything at all about the individual inputs used to generate that stat. It helps me to understand the tendancies of the whole, but gives me nothing of use for the individual.

People who use stereotypes to make some claim of fact are ignorant. But to say stereotypes are of no use is also ignorant.

It is the false stereotype that is damaging ( black people can't swim, etc. ). Strawman (fake ) stereotypes are used by lazy ( usually angry ) people in lieu of a logical argument. ( Neo-cons love to do this )

The Spaniards were just plain ignorant; not malicious. It wasn't funny because they were just making fun of their eyes- and not questioning the validity of stereotype.
That is why people like Chappelle are funny. They make us look at the stereotype. It is that self examination--that we employ stereotypes on a daily basis--that makes it funny-we get to laugh at ourselves.

The black KKK member bit on Chappelle was all time. No prisoners in comedy my friends. B-ballers aren't funny---someone please send the memo to Shack as well as the Spaniards.

"Are you kidding me? I don't do anything inadvertently (pretty good word). If I have something to say. I say it!"

Michael it sounds to me like you have something to say even when you have nothing to say, which is most of the time.

"Michael it sounds to me like you have something to say even when you have nothing to say, which is most of the time."

Again, you notice my "practically perfect in every way" nature. I have to tell ya, knowledge is a good thing. It allows a person to be able to elaborate on many subjects. To enjoy the beauty of different cultures. Can you imagine listening to "Liquid Love" one second and "Moonriver" the next. Awwwwh, Oh dearest, oh dearest...where art thou?

Damn, poetic, too!

mike t.

They have made it worse by not coming to a consensus. It is truly ignorance. Sadly. Stupidity, but glad this has happened as it's a good opportunity to learn.

Calderon can learn. I have not faith in the coach. His kind will hopefully just fade away.

You will never get it unless you are the race that is being mocked and ridiculed. Understood.

Calderon could do himself well if he addressed the people who would have potentially been insulted instead of his defensive stance agains the press. Not surprising. Not all athletes, as all people, are intelligent or even sensitive.

Anyways, Sun Yue meet Pao Gasol...

It'll be harder to root for the Spaniard, but I believe in what he said.

Poorly handled by Spain.

Let's throw a little bit of humor into this thread

http://tinyurl.com/67k3p9

About 40 seconds in.

From what I understand, this picture does not fairly represent itself. It reminds me of a photo they showed on Saturday Night Live one time. The angle of the photo made it look like President Carter (or other president) had his hand squarely planted on the butt of some 10-year-old girl scout as they stood at a podium in front of large crowd.

As a result of the unfair representation of the Spanish team picture, most people here aren't really arguing about the photo itself, but about a theoretical photo where a team got together and determined that posing like that was funny. The only real argument here should be about what would have been the proper way for the team to react to the the pressure from the Chinese sponsor to pose like that?

You can never assume that a bunch of basketball players are going to be experts on tact, diplomacy or sensitivity. So where was the coach (who hopefully has more time to develop such traits and lead the team in the right direction)?

But, mainly because of poor journalism, we somehow have a story and an argument about a bunch of guys who stank up the Olympics with their poor (racially insensitive) taste. The Spanish team picture should have been placed on page 10 of a few newspapers or else just shelved and saved for an SNL skit like the Carter picture...

Ya'll are a bunch of crazy round eyed racists!

just kidding

I'm sorry to interject another opinion into this mudslinging party, but I couldn't help myself today. Of all of the strange/bordering-on-ridiculous things I have read today, I must say Mike T's reaction to a fairly common word (inadvertently) takes the cake. Thank you for that, I was having a rough day. And one more thing to keep the embers burning til I get off at 6 - I really am half black (the other half is German/Welsh for those who are interested) - and I find the views expressed in this discussion exponentially more saddening than the photo in question.

BK | August 13, 2008 at 10:35 AM - It gets to the difficulty at times of separating respect for different POVs and norms with setting standards that need to exist for moral judgement on right and wrong. This case is fairly simple- what the hell were they thinking? But in broader terms, it's a complicated issue.
---

Agreed and agreed.

***

Edwin Gueco | August 13, 2008 at 10:58 AM - Is Jose Calderon, the author and newspaper columnist? ... In November, when Gasol comes back to LA why don't we reprint and get his autograph using the same picture at Staples or in Manhattan beach area or at commercial promotions? See who gets the last laugh?
---

The JC I'm referring to is (now) a starting guard for the Raptors. Re: reprints and autographs -- Pau would LOVE that wouldn't he? But nahh. I've yet to ask anyone for an autograph. However, waking to a liprint from Jessica Alba on the pillow next to mine is a recurring fantasy.

***

Meanwhile, messy, missing facts.

* For the record, according to this AP report [1], the controversial shoot involving Spanish Olympic basketball was *not* sponsored by Li Ning, a Chinese apparel company that outfits Spanish Basketball Federation national teams. The ad *was* sponsored, initiated and promoted by Seur, a Spanish courier company.

* The Spanish Basketball Federation -- Federación Española de Baloncesto -- *did* recently extend an agreement with Li Ning to underwrite uniform apparel for all Spanish national teams through 2012. [2] That agreement, based on comments from Li Ning in response to the Seur photographs, does not appear to be in jeopardy.

* Pau Gasol -- who already apologized for any offense inflicted, admitted discomfort with the "clownish" stunt and concurred the theme was not funny -- also says Seur "insisted and insisted" on player participation. [3]

[1] http://ap.google.com/article/
ALeqM5j45nP-GYIAOWVXPtcna
ZrQnTLLdgD92HH3K80

[2] http://www.feb.es/NoticiaDesarrollo.aspx?
idNoticia=21727
[3] http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/
beijing/basketball/news?slug
=ro-spain081308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Benjamin,

>>>>> I like the irony of Mike T's racism coming through in a thread about racism.

I think we all saw the irony in that, probably none less so than AK and BK, both of whom have been called out by Mike as racists on several occasions. What is amazing is that Pau Gasol has shown ten times as much heart and desire to win than Kwame Brown has ever shown, yet Mike mocks Pau relentlessly while kissing the ground Kwame craps on.

While I think that political correctness has helped make everyone more aware of racial insensitivity, I doubt it has changed the core racism that all of us harbor in some way or another. Where your prejudices turn into out-and-out racism varies, but we all in some way or another have our biases, some of which contain very hurtful truths and realities. The best we can do in my mind is to not allow those biases to prevent us from seeing the individual persons with whom we come into contact who are different from us. What living a long time has shown me is that we are all people in the end, as flawed and imperfect as we may be. If we realize and respect that, then we’ll be OK.

Personally, I find it helps to be able to laugh at yourself, which is why some of the funniest jokes I have ever heard were Asian jokes. But then, some people would find that offensive. For me, it’s always a matter of degree and intent, and I did not see any real malice in the stupid slant-eyes games by the Spanish team, even though I suffered taunts of the same nature as a kid and probably got into numerous fights as a result. Now, I am older and wiser – and well past my fighting days. You could say that I have now become a little more mellow yellow.

Tom

AK,
"if the Chinese team took a picture like the one you described earlier (with eyes opened in exaggerated fashion) and called it "the round eye photo," I'm willing to bet it would have required some explaining. Especially with them as the hosts of this entire event. Do you honestly think otherwise?"

FIrst of all, I don't believe the team called this the "slant-eye photo", did they?

Secondly, yes, I honestly believe that if the Chinese team had taken a picture like that in Salt Lake CIty during the Olympics, it would have been laughed off.

Double standards are alive and well in the world of PC.

I haven't heard about this series before, this isn't as good as Kobe jumping over a car, but not bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F2d7M4Lbmw

My name is Kwame, and I have big calves.

My game is always a tale, a tale of two halves.

I went to Hermosa, and threw some dude's cake.

Three contracts later, and people realize that I am a fake.

I may have stone hands, where the ball bounces off.

But at least I can't be accussed of being super soft.

This summer I'm in training, with a guy named Mr T.

I will come back better, and even pain free.

I'm big and I'm strong, and I can push them all away.

If you want my services, you're a gonna have to pay.

There will always be another sucka, who will pay for my potential.

What they don't realize is a brain is essential.

My name is Kwame, and I'm an allstar in my mind.

People don't see it, because they are all really blind.

Next year I will go camping, and roast a marshmellow.

Word to your mutha, this is Kwame Brown Yo!

Mr. Yan,

spot on... well put.

Stereotypes are based on experiences. The more you've experienced (seen, done, read...) the stronger or weaker a stereotype becomes.
Any given experience can reshape or reinforce a stereotype.
Often, after an experience, we realize our previous stereotype was actually a misunderstanding or misdirected.

Stereotypes are not a bad thing.
HOWEVER, to ignore the short comings of stereotypes (and what they are used for) is dangerous and can result in a predicament...
example:
stereotype = snakes are dangerous; therefor we should kill all snakes to stay safe.
result = rodent populations increase (along with the diseases they carry) and we are less safe than we were with snakes.

(silly example, i know, but you get the point)

No its not racist...

yes people are over reacting...

And YES most of the colored people (like me) OVERREACT to everything.... You cant say monkey... you cant say black... you cant say ugly... anymore... over-conscious of EVERYTHING...

NAZIS... KKK... are racist... not someone who says "those little kung fu men are funny..."

Everyone does it at one time or another... so dont be self righteous... You may not say it but you "think" it...

if you want to blame someone for this stunt, blame the people who paid for this... why blame the players... they are PAID to pose... if they posted nude who cares...

the exaggeration of this generation is bordering to comical...

the olympics are full of weirdness like this, it's such hype and provinicalism....and that includes the media, who makes up propoganda or easily believes it...including the LA Times nba writer Mark Heisler, who should run a correction or at least a source when he referrs to the billions or hundreds of millions of people that watch Yao Ming games....

turns out that billion people who watched the China/USA games was more like 89 million, with a 39 million average...

not to mention the supposed 200 million that watched that Yao/Yi game, a number Heisler has reported as fact numerous times.....

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/about-that-basketball-audience-of-a-billion-393/

guity,

picture this if you will...

everyone's having a good time, laughing, posing for photos. The photographer is snapping off photos while the director of this thing is cracking jokes making funny faces to keep a bunch of guys entertained.
Then, enter the sponsor of the event and he joins in the fun. He/she is telling the group of guys to do "bunny ears" or funny faces... then the sponsor (who is Chinese himself) tells the group of guys to make "slanted eyes".

At that moment, how many of the participants stand up and object?

Situations and circumstances mean everything sometimes...

Mike,

That was an excellent post of yours about Breakfast at Tiffany’s. As a half-Asian, I always grimaced at Mickey Rooney’s character in the movie. Hollywood has had a long and despicable history of having white actors in “yellow face” portraying Asians, including David Carradine’s infamous casting in Kung Fu over Bruce Lee, who became the hero of a generation for many Asians who had lived through years of movie and television humiliation, the most egregious of which was Bonanza’s Hop Sing. My grandfather came to Gold Mountain and was one of the coolies that built railroads in the olden days of the West.

I have always looked to Bruce Lee in much the same way as I imagined African-Americans looked at Denzel Washington or Michael Jordan or my brother –in-law, who is Mexican, looked up to Oscar De la Hoya or Fernando Valenzuela for inspiration and a sense of racial pride. Watching China through the eyes of the Olympics brings mixed feelings. I am proud to see China emerge as a major power but sad to see the suppression of freedom and liberties that have accompanied this rise. I spend 15 years traveling and working in the Far East, including many years in Hong Kong and mainland China. I must confess that, even as half-Chinese, I never felt safe or comfortable in China. There was always that Big Brother element looking over your shoulder and the fear that the huge relentless bureaucracy that is the government might make you disappear. And after 1997, even Hong Kong began to feel much the same.

Traveling throughout the world only made me homesick for the USA. While I loved Hong Kong, Paris, Milan, and London, I realized I was still a California boy after all. Good to see some positive posts from you, Mike. I still remember your great Jingle Bells Rock and sunshine posts. Here’s hoping we will see more of the same in the future. Have a nice day. Peace!

Tom

Mike T. and Andy Willilams singing Moon River.

Who woulda thought?

Only on the Lakers Blog.

Tom

...And there's always the Suns blog to make me feel good ... here's a question from one inquisitive Suns fan:

>>>Can you snoop around and find if our 20$mill$ doller man $haq is training at all
this season and if so ,....where?
Any free throw attempts?..
I keep reading prognostications about our Suns and they all seem to end with
And these suns will only go as far as an aged Shaq will take them.
Which gets me really wondering....What is Shaq up too anyway???
Is he doing anything to combat is declining game??? <<<<

Answer: Training? Yes. I saw Shaq curling some Fat Burger fries last week. Thanks for asking.

Ex,

"AK, "if the Chinese team took a picture like the one you described earlier (with eyes opened in exaggerated fashion) and called it "the round eye photo," I'm willing to bet it would have required some explaining. Especially with them as the hosts of this entire event. Do you honestly think otherwise?"

FIrst of all, I don't believe the team called this the "slant-eye photo", did they? Secondly, yes, I honestly believe that if the Chinese team had taken a picture like that in Salt Lake CIty during the Olympics, it would have been laughed off. Double standards are alive and well in the world of PC."

You're correct, the Spanish team didn't name their photo that way. I didn't mean it so much literally as just not being sure that without some kind of verbal clarification (or physical, the way the Spanish players used their hands), a picture of Chinese athletes with "wider eyes" wouldn't even translate on film to the point where anyone would notice. But I didn't clarify that from the start. It's also really neither here nor there, in terms of the question I was actually asking.

If you honestly don't think the reverse photo would have raised any eyebrows, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But it's not really worth debating any further, since we obviously don't agree and neither of us can really "prove" ourselves correct, since it's all speculation, anyway.

AK

Spaniards says: been there, done that, love is saying we're sorry, now they request, can we move on?

Knowing my chinese friends in Asia, they'll just laugh at this incident. If you're not familiar with the individual and make such jokes, then they may get offended and don't expect any kind of hospitality, expect a rude treatment. However, if you do it w/ friends you're familiar with, it's is just an ice breaker. like for example during my Jaycees years, we were in a Kowloon restaurant along Nathan St, w/ Kowloon Jaycees, our sister chapter, when they handed the menu written in chinese mandarin, somebody played the same joke of slanting his eyes in order to read the chinese characters, it created raucus and lots of laughter, then our Hongkong counterparts retaliated and made fun of Filipinos & mimicked the way Imelda Marcos talked and moved when she went to Hongkong. We also laughed with them, they thought we admired Imelda, not realizing that we have scithing hate as well. See, that's what I mean it depends on relationship.

However, if instead of the slanting eyes photo, Gasol or the Spaniards went to Tienamen Square protested on treatment of Taiwan or refer them as Nationalist China, show the picture of Chiang Kai shek or the picture of Dalai Lama w/ Free Tibet in the background and/or praise the Falon Gong, he just waved all RED FLAGS of offensive politics and dangerous to one's life. they'd surely land him in jail or even expel him from the Olympics. I predict that as the Mainland continue to develop, that in the next decade, mainland China will go beyond those issues and will abruptly change their policies. Fifty years ago during the time of Mao and Chou En Lai, they are referred as bamboo curtain regime, no one was even allowed to enter Red China. Now that is a thing of the past.

Pau Gasol needs to look up to players of honor such as STEVE NASH and try to emulate Him. Gasol's racism should be hidden instead of flaunted.

By the way, cheering for the lakers is like cheering for the yankees - it takes no courage, no heart and even less intelligence. Because, these teams are supposed to win. They spend more money than other teams in trying to build a winning squad, bankrolled by fat cats who want to see their major market representatives succeed.

So cheering for the lakers is like cheering for the trash compactor to work - it's expected to happen.

Team payrolls -- Lakers 6th and Suns 8th -- Suns pay just a little over two million less than the Lakers. There goes that brain fart Butler -- enjoy the 7th or 8th spot next season with Shaq's 20 million on the books.

There's no answer to this. I liked this blog better when we just argued about the Lakers. Now that I know which bloggers are racists, it will impact how I address them in the future.

I'm our for a few days. Maybe the fallout from this topic will be over by then.

"Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!"

Or is that:

"Get your stinking hands off me, you damn dirty human!"

LOL!

mike t.

"Is it a valid stereotype? Yes. So would someone saying that Chinese people have straight, black hair.

Is it a stereotype to say that blacks have curly hair? Yes."

Wow! Just because Chinesse people have slanted eyes doesn't give you the right to do what the Spanish team did. People are people. They look like what they look like. If you think it's OK to mock the way a person looks like...I mean that's the way they were born. So are you saying that just because a person is born with slanted eyes it's OK to do what the Spanish team did and it doesn't mean anything?

That whole line of logic is basically saying that certain genetics are superior than others. That's why the Spanish team "clowned" the Chinesse people. Ha! Ha! Ha! Look at them. Look at their eyes. LOL! (That doesn't make sense unless you see yourself as superior.)

I mean if you make an argument that black straight hair is somehow sterotyping a group of people and then try to say that the Spanish team photo applies along the same lines...well, I think that's just denial.

But truthfully, my thoughts of you ex were never in doubt.

mike t.

"I must say Mike T's reaction to a fairly common word (inadvertently) takes the cake."

I like the word. I didn't say it was complex. INADVERTENTLY! It has a certain ring to it. Kind of like some inside out theory. LOL! (oops, sorry, I was in sometype of inside out state of mind so I inadvertently offended you.) In other words: I was thinking right.

Another word I really really like is presumptuous.

LIke you thinking I thought inadvertently is some type of complex word. That would make you presumptuous.

LOL!

I love that word, too.

mike t.

"That whole line of logic is basically saying that certain genetics are superior than others. "

How is commenting on physical characteristics saying that a group of people is superior? That's just plain silly.

People of African heritage have darker skin than people of European heritage.

Oh, crap!! That's racist isn't it?
It's saying that people of African heritage are superior! No, wait ... it's saying that people of European heritage are superior ... dang it, I can't remember who I'm being racist against when I notice a physical difference!!

Spain is like Rome. Rome ruled the world once. But that was a long time ago. But still, in the Italian mind, they take great pride in their history as contrbutors to the world.

Spain has the same lofty reflections of themselves. Awwwh! Remember when we just to be this and that? Awwwwh, the world owes our culture a great debt.

Suckers! You've been paid a million times over. Now get in the back of the line and shut up! You have no more influence in the world other than to complain about the way the world is today.

Rather than accept their lot in today's society they cling to the good old days when racism was just part of the norm.

That photo proves how their mind is conditioned to their everyday thoughts.

mike t.

Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | August 13, 2008 at 01:34 PM

Wow! Just because Chinesse people have slanted eyes doesn't give you the right to do what the Spanish team did. People are people. They look like what they look like. If you think it's OK to mock the way a person looks like...I mean that's the way they were born. So are you saying that just because a person is born with slanted eyes it's OK to do what the Spanish team did and it doesn't mean anything?

That whole line of logic is basically saying that certain genetics are superior than others. That's why the Spanish team "clowned" the Chinesse people. Ha! Ha! Ha! Look at them. Look at their eyes. LOL! (That doesn't make sense unless you see yourself as superior.)

I mean if you make an argument that black straight hair is somehow sterotyping a group of people and then try to say that the Spanish team photo applies along the same lines...well, I think that's just denial.

It feels very strange, but I'm in full agreement with Mike T. here. Nail on the head Mike.

Long Time and Ex,

Making fun of an Asian's slanted eyes or a Jewish person's nose or an African American's skin color have much deeper roots that you guys are obviously aware of. These insults (or jokes as you guys would call them) are issues that these groups have had to deal with their entire lives, and represent the discrimination and bigotry that these groups have had to endure for years, or even centuries. It is a reminder of the ugliness of the ignorant. I honestly would not expect you guys to fully understand this no matter how hard you tried.

I understand that it's human nature to notice differences in other groups. Our brains are simply wired to categorize people everyday by race, gender, religion, ethnic background, etc.

One of the most effective means of teaching tolerance and respect for diversity is eliminating ignorance. The actions of the Spanish team promote ignorance. The despicable act of making monkey references to black soccer players may seem like a joke to the offenders, but these actions promote bias and less tolerance to these groups, something these groups, along with their ancestors, have been fighting against for a long time.

Callling a Westerner "round eye" may have a brief history, but this "joke" does not conjure up the same memories of bigotry and discrimination that slant eyed jokes do to Asian Americans, nose jokes do to Jewish Americans, skin color jokes to African-American, etc..

Again, ignorance is difficult to unlearn, and I don't expect you guys to see my point of view.

GO LAKERS!

Sasha,
"but this "joke" does not conjure up the same memories of bigotry and discrimination "

And there's the problem. Racism does not exist in the "victim." Racism exists in the "racist." Just because someone thinks an action is racist does not mean that it's racist.

It is certainly understandable why someone of Asian descent could be offended by this picture. But that DOES NOT mean that the picture is racist in nature, or that the players in the picture are racist.

"How is commenting on physical characteristics saying that a group of people is superior? That's just plain silly.

People of African heritage have darker skin than people of European heritage.

Oh, crap!! That's racist isn't it?
It's saying that people of African heritage are superior! No, wait ... it's saying that people of European heritage are superior ... dang it, I can't remember who I'm being racist against when I notice a physical difference!!"

This guy goes to extreme examples to justify a very particular point. This guy is more concerned with "his right" to hold a opinion and justify it with ridiculous examples.

I mean how transparent is this statement:

"People of African heritage have darker skin than people of European heritage.

Oh, crap!! That's racist isn't it?"

This ridiculous example just to say that the Spanish photo is no big deal? The whole world condemn it but this guy is busy making up weak example that don't apply to keep his point of view as justifiable.

How do you explain to a guy with this mind set? Being black or white isn't something people make a big deal of, in theory, because it's the human condition. It is what it is. But if a black guy started painting his face white people would question that. And vice-versa. When white people used to paint their faces black in the old day theaters...it was just accepted entertainment. But if that were done today...it would receive strong condenation. Unless it was trying to make a political point or something along those lines.

I mean is it really necessary to explain something like this to a guy like this? I doesn't make a difference because he doesn't care about common sense. He cares more about "his right" to think a certain way.

The whole world condemns the photo...but this guy tries to "intellectualize" the situation with feable examples that are so ridiculous that it could only mean one thing:

An Aflac moment! When the duck does a double take over Yogi Berra's use the English language. And then shakes his head with frustation over the lack of logic being presented.

LOL!

mike t.

So, it's OK to do something that could be considered racist if you are "trying to make a point."

But it's not OK to be goofing off and pretending that you are Chinese.

How about at Halloween? Is it racist for a white person to dress up like a Zulu warrior? It must be, because he/she is pretending to be someone from a race/ethnicity other than their own.

How about if in a school play, a black student played the role of George Washington. I guess that would be racist, wouldn't it?

here is a thought. if this really is as innocuous as some people think, go down to ktown, or little saigon, or little tokyo, or chinatown. hit up one of the clubs or cafes. do this same thing to the first asian guy you see. don't say anything, just do it. then we can all see if it offends.
honestly, i would have just let it go, not really caring about it if pau gasol was not in the picture. because he is there, and i rooted for the guy last year, i have been more concerned about it. no, there probably is no malicious intent, but it bothers me that someone on the lakers could be that ignorant. as an asian american fan of the lakers, i am simply disappointed in him.

Ex,

"So, it's OK to do something that could be considered racist if you are "trying to make a point." But it's not OK to be goofing off and pretending that you are Chinese. How about at Halloween? Is it racist for a white person to dress up like a Zulu warrior? It must be, because he/she is pretending to be someone from a race/ethnicity other than their own. How about if in a school play, a black student played the role of George Washington. I guess that would be racist, wouldn't it?"

That comparison doesn't work at all because the contexts are entirely different. Halloween literally revolves around dressing up as somebody else. If the white person dressed up as a Zulu Warrior and proceeded to act in a way that would be considered universally disrespectful, then it's a problem. But otherwise, you're expected to take on another persona and maybe even a race, as the day's theme. And being in a play, by definition, requires pretending to be somebody else. Again, depending on how the black actor portrayed Washington or even the play itself, I guess there could be problems. But in and of itself, there's nothing instantly problematic about it.

To attempt equating those two scenarios with the Spanish Team's photo, with a context that wouldn't classify their actions in a way most people would agree is "normal" or "respectful," is a pretty massive stretch.

AK

"How about if in a school play, a black student played the role of George Washington. I guess that would be racist, wouldn't it? "

Again, weak examples. Hypotheticals vs. Realities (The Spanish Team's Photo)

Hypothecticals are always used as a guise to confuse the true intent of a matter.

The problem with this guy is that he's still operating with a 50s and 60s mindset. Well, here's a wake-up call. Education or Knowledge is widespread now-a-days. And the "truth" is becoming clearer and clearer everyday. It's called the evolution of the human condition. Something that a mindset of the 50s and 60s will always fail to grasp.

mike t.

AK,
"That comparison doesn't work at all because the contexts are entirely different."

No, they aren't. You have consistently been missing the point. The point is that the Spanish team was pretty obviously goofing off. Not making a racist statement.

Ex,

I'm not sure how you can possibly continue to respond to this guy who continues to call you "this guy."

How can anyone possibly put up with this guy? I mean, he comes here to talk about what's racist and what isn't, when he's more racist than anyone else! Wow, I'm smarter than I think I am.

That's a fact Jack!

LOL!

Can you believe the way this guy thinks? Unbelievable!

Ex,

The Spanish team were being idiots and should have had more common sense, but I've maintained from the start that I don't think they were out to be malicious. That being said, those examples still completely skirt context and parameters in trying to prove that point. It feels like you're trying to justify them entirely. There, I don't agree.

AK

"The point is that the Spanish team was pretty obviously goofing off. Not making a racist statement."

Gee, THIS GUY just doesn't get it.

When racist are being racist...most of the time it's in the form of an "inside joke". In other words: They're goofing off! That's what racist people do. It's part of their humor among themselves. Gee, THIS GUY is incredible.

And that's a fact JACK!

mike t.

"I'm not sure how you can possibly continue to respond to this guy who continues to call you "this guy."

OK, how about "this girl"?

mike t.

Manny Oh Manny! Damn he's good!

Oh, wrong blog. Sorry!

LOL!

mike t.

AK,
"It feels like you're trying to justify them entirely"

If by that you are saying that I don't think there was something inhererently wrong with what they did, you are correct. I don't think that there was something inherently wrong with what they did. Idiotic and/or likely to be taken the wrong way? Probably. But "wrong"? I don't think so.

The biggest obstacle to getting rid of ACTUAL racism in today's world is the fact that way too often, people cry "racism" when either they are being overly sensitive, or the people committing the act aren't being sensitive enough. The latter primarily being the case of people not taking history into account. But that doesn't make it racism. Inaccurate cries of "racism" have the same effect as the "boy who cried wolf." (And just to be on the safe side, in the fairy tale, the "boy" was actually a young male. No ethnic references intended.)

"Round eyes" is not the same as "slanty eyes".

Here's why.
Western media (movies, TV) has portrayed round eyes (and other Caucasian features) to be more preferred or the norm. Almond shaped eyes on the other hand has been associated with insensitive stereotypes as others have mentioned.
So much that many Asians also prefer to have rounder eyes and choose to have eye lid surgery to make them rounder (very popular in Korea).

As AK said, who has been called "round eye" and who would be offended?

Ice,
For a while during college, one of my daughters worked as a waitress in a Chinese restaurant in the midwest, and the owner (a native of China, who she got along with very well) joked with her using that expression. She wasn't offended at all, and (from what she has said about the owner) I seriously doubt that he was saying it as an insult.

So why assume that the Spanish people were doing anything other than "pretending to be Chinese"? And if that's what they were doing, it WAS NOT racist. Insensitive, unaware of history, not politically correct, perhaps yes to all. But racist? No.

it's just obvious that mike t do not like gasol and he is using this topic to take swipes at gasol even more...admit it mike, you are racist too but you only have this blog as your stage...but gasol's stage is the world of sports et al....don't take this too personal dude!

Marty/Caliphilosopher,

Since you asked about my old improv group...:

We were called "Film Pigs" and used to spoof movies on stage, condensing them down to about an hour. We'd mock the bad acting, silly plot points, lazy writing, make references to other movies, etc. We'd also do fake movie trailers before the shows began. We'd work off a script that was born from and allowed some additional improvisation.

The best show, in my opinion, was "Dirty Dancing." The actor who played Swayze was an extremely good physical comedian and used to dance his way on and off stage for every entrance/exit. We also heavily bashed the biggest plot contrivance: Jennifer Grey inexplicably refusing to tell her dad that Swayze didn't impregnate the girl who had the in-house abortion, which would have instantly cleared up any father/daughter tension. Of course, it would have also reduced the movie to about 30 minutes, so they included this ridiculous story line.

My single favorite joke we ever had (which may not sound funny simply described) may be when we did "Star Wars" and had a scene with a temp working at the Death Star. Again, no promises it'll make you giggle as a standalone without the actual show, but remembering it makes me smile.

AK

"it's just obvious that mike t do not like gasol and he is using this topic to take swipes at gasol even more...admit it mike..."

Of course I don't like Gasol! He's Spaniard...I mean a Softie!

mikie t.

Ex,

"And there's the problem. Racism does not exist in the "victim." Racism exists in the "racist." Just because someone thinks an action is racist does not mean that it's racist."

Whether or not the Spanish team's intent was to be "racist" or not is debatable. We will never know. At the very least, it was extremely insensitive and ignorant. Ignorance promotes racism. Intentional or not, there was harm done. What is not debatable is the effect these kinds of ignorant acts by public figures have on tolerance and respect for diversity within our society. People that are not aware of the plight of other minority groups need to be aware of the ugly history of discrimination and bigotry that these kinds of actions represent.

I've heard plenty of pathetic excuses for the actions of the Spanish team on this blog, but one excuse that I find somewhat acceptable is they didn't know any better. Fine, if that's the case, than hopefully they have learned from this experience, and will hopefully use better judgment the next time they are in a similar situation. BUT, if people (like you) continue to condone this type of behavior, there will never be any public outcry or backlash. If nobody tells the Spanish team what they did was wrong, the Spanish team will remain ignorant and insensitive to other groups. This in turn will promote even more ignorance amongst the Spanish citizens. Based on how the Spanish soccer fans treat black soccer players, ignorance (or racism?) is running rampant over there.

peace

GO LAKERS.

of course Mike T. doesn't like Pau, after all it was Pau Gasol that whom his boy Kwa-may Brown was traded for. That it was Pau Gasol who at least got to the finals playing out of position in the NBA (FIBA is different) while Kwa-may Brown did not even reach the second round playing out of position as well (Mike T always did try to make Kwa-may Brown into a Power Forward) (though Kwa-may Brown may reach it while sitting on the pine for Detriot). And simply that Pau Gasol who slowed down Tim Duncan's greatness (made Duncan shoot for 42.6% during the Western Conferance Finals).

Have to wonder though if Mike T. would be still mad if we could have gotten Kareem (in his prime) or David Robinson for Kwa-may Brown.

Though I admit, had Kwa-may Brown been less immaturish and listen to guys like Kareem and Charles Oakley, he would have become better than Pau, but he doesn't work hard on either offense or defense, is too reliant on stars like Kobe to give him feeds to even score, and relies too much on guys like Mike T. to rely on as fans.

What can be done to make the world finally admit Kwa-may Brown is a good player and can at least be called Kwame Brown? It is to ANCHOR the defense and not rely on other people with help defense which means shut down his assigned man and help other defenders out. Also average at least 3 blks per game for 3 seasons (for help defense), average 12+ rebounds per game for 3 years, and have 3 seasons of scoring more than 15ppg on at least 50% FG. Or if he wins Defensive Player of the Year FOUR times and gets to the NBA All Defensive Team 7 times. If Kwa-mey Brown does either of those things, then he deserves to be recognized as a great player and all Laker fans should admit that the Kwa-may Brown-Pau Gasol trade may have not been so good. Until then, the Lakers got the better end of the deal and Pau is still the greater player than Kwa-may Brown.

LOL! Cheers!

I have to tell everybody who think the picture was racist that it was not!!! Here in Spain we have no problem with Asiatic people, and I must say that among all the inmigrants they are actually the most respected.

And it is really ironical that this discussion comes from the US .... maybe you should first look at yourself. In US you tend to see bad things everywhere... (like greek-style statues that are covered because they are showing too much?????). Like someone has inteligently said in this blog, the one that is not racist is not going to see anything bad. Maybe Pau was a bit uncorfotable with the photo because he knows your country, the country of the "politically correct".

Stereotypes surround as, and they are not always a racism expression, and racism expressions are not the same in every country, so before talking about something you don't know look at your real problems.

From the country where we are all tanned, have siesta, do not work, and like bull fighting and fiesta (just to remark some of the stereotypes that surround Spanish... not Spaniards by the way....).

As a Spaniard I would like to discuss some of the comments you made here. First of all, I prefer not to answer to those of you who generalize and say the Spaniards are racist. Yes, we have racist people in Spain (especially in football). We also have a history plenty of racism like yours. I believe that European cultures, as a generalization, haven't got a greater tendency towards racism than yours or Asian. If you want I can give you some examples (e.g. armed private citizens in the border), but it is only my opinion.

From my point of view, this picture has helped Spaniards to understand that a specific gesture is considered offensive by some people in other countries (such as US or UK). The Spanish EFE news agency asked some people in China and most of them did not even know what that gesture meant. I would like american media to do the same just to double check. I can tell you that, by itself, this gesture it is not considered offensive in Spain, as far as I know. I asked a friend of mine if she felt offended and she said "why?".

The main problem is that we assume that a behaviour is seen the same way in all the countries and that is probably an issue. I would like to apologise as a Spaniard if somebody feels offended, but as the Spanish team said (and I believe them) it was a gesture of appreciation like wanting to be integrated in a different culture. And I believe that because I would not insult you if you invite me to your house. BTW, do you also use the V sign (palm inwards) as an insult like the British? If a Spaniard does that he probably means "two, please", I am serious.

Some newspaper in Spain pointed out that this controversy could have been artificially increased due to the Chicago vs. Madrid olympics interest.

Again, I am sorry if anybody felt offended.

Of course they did not deliberately intend to make racist gestures mimicking the ethnicity of hosts of the Olympic Games. But the fact remains that they know they are walking a thin line and with that I would rather call this move irresponsible.

And for those who are saying this is not racially insensitive, try walking around the city of Beijing for a couple of hours while slanting your eyes like that and we'll see if you don't offend anyone.

¿Al Jolson is racist? El cantor de Jazz is a film racist?

Come on people, get a grip, sensibilities differ from one country to another and this definitely is not something that would offend many people outside the Anglo-Saxon countries. If you keep at it, with all the political correctness that permeates your societies, you'll have to stop using basic words such as the "colours" because some idiot will consider it offensive, be it to coloured-people or Martians. Also, the humour in continental Europe is vastly more provocative and edgy than in Britain. You should learn other languages and maybe you would understand what it is all about.

BTW, Asians in general don't give a damn about these things. I know, that's where I live. That particular pose from the players wouldn't even be understood by most Asians because it's just a "gesture" they don't know.

Doesn't the Guardian have some more important things to cover?

LakerTruth,
"BUT, if people (like you) continue to condone this type of behavior, "

Yes, I condone people being silly. That includes indivduals such as Dave Chapelle, Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, TV shows such as South Park, etc. I'm guessing you do, too.

"What is not debatable is the effect these kinds of ignorant acts by public figures have on tolerance and respect for diversity within our society."

A significant problem is that when one group assumes racism in another group, it tends to hold the first group back. Individuals in the first group have a "built-in reason" for why something didn't work out as they hoped. That often leads to them not addressing the actual issue.

Wow. I don't really understand how anybody sees the photos as anything but racist, I really don't. What else could they be? As AK says, if not, where's the joke?

Ex, you really think the US is the least racist society in the world?

"When racist are being racist...most of the time it's in the form of an "inside joke". In other words: They're goofing off! That's what racist people do. It's part of their humor among themselves. Gee, THIS GUY is incredible."

How can this convict continue to come here and express such inferior views? Racist people think that other people are also racist, so they project their self-image upon others in the hopes that they can propagate their causes and create a following. If this guy had any sense he's see his own shortcomings and wish for the best in improving his shattered life and psyche. That's the gist!

Interesting.

LOL!

Michael A,
"Ex, you really think the US is the least racist society in the world? "

Yes, at least as far as cultures that aren't extremely small. I'm sure there are some small groups somewhere that aren't. Read, or talk to people from that culture, about how the Europeans treat their "guest workers", about what Japanese think about Koreans, vice versa, what Muslims think about Jews, Indians and Pakistanis, Australians and the aborigines, Arabs in the northern part of Africa and the blacks in the rest of Africa, etc.

The Spanish basketball team was not making fun of Chinese people. The add has not racist message whatsoever. Furthermore, Chinese people is not offended by it as it proves the declaration made by the Chinese embassy in Spain and the renewal of several sponsorship contracts with Chinese companies.

It always shock me how the US media constantly exploits racial tensions I believe this has a lot to do with the US History and your strange way of dealing with different human races. Ask your self, why if you describe someone as “black” or as having “slanted-eyes” is a bad thing? Why on the contrary is it not a bad thing to describe someone as “white, blonde with blue eyes?”.

It seems that the underlying message of some sectors of the US media is that anything that is “different”, that reflects the features of a “minority group” is a bad thing. The hypocrisy of white Americans who deep inside them dislike these features of minority groups, lead them to think that the only way to live a multicultural society is by forbidding any way of expressing the existence of these wonderfully different human features. Getting along in a plural world is a matter of encouraging tolerance and really accepting each other’s differences; not a matter of punishing anybody who dares to talk or merely express somehow their existence. We are all different, unique and beautiful!!

I grew up in Spain, where people with different features are considered “exotic” and “attractive”. My sister is half-Chinese and has always been very popular among Spanish boys because of her beautiful slanted-green-eyes. My husband is half-Japanese and half-American and in our wedding party in Madrid all my Spanish relatives commented how beautiful our children would be if they inherited his slanted-eyes. In Spain there is no negative or diminishing value associated with having slanted-eyes, on the contrary, it has a positive social value.

With regard to European values, I can say that “freedom of expression” is a very important human right for Spanish and European citizens. In America it might be OK to limit freedom of expression in order to protect the “sensibilities” that some racist people see everywhere, but anybody with a little bit of historic sense would realize that defending this freedom has already cost human kind too many wars, too many deaths…

Ex, all you're saying is that prejudice exists all over, which is a no-brainer. But to say that the US is the least racist society in the world is a large statement that I don't think can be backed up. And what counts as a small culture? How many people? A couple hundred thousand? A million? Ten?

I don't think it's as easy to state as that. It would certainly be difficult to prove...and somehow, I doubt that it would hold up under examination. I'm not saying that the US is the most racist country in the world, I doubt that would hold up either, but is the States really less racist than Canada? Britain? Any of the Caribbean Islands? I don't know that case could be made in all those cases, and that's just off the top of my head.

People are getting WAY too oversensitive. I know lots of non-Asian guys who find Asian women to be incredibly beautiful.

So, why is it that pretending to look like an Asian is offensive?

Is it offensive to look like an Asian? I think only a fool would say, "Yes."

So, what's the big deal?

If the Chinese team pretended to look like round-eyes, what would be the big deal?

In the end, everyone has to get over all their petty insecurities. I think the sooner, the better.

GO USA!

GO LAKERS!

Everyone should be able to make fun of everyone else because ALL OF US are hilarious in our own dysfunctional way.

GO USA!

GO LAKERS!

Please check the link below, after you seeing this, my question is: are we talking double standards here? how come the US team can make the military salute IN JAPAN!! and nothing happens, is this a respectful conduct?...I think the hole issue has been taken out of context, this can go on and on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/03/sports/
basketball/03hoops.html?
scp=1&sq=september
%203%202006%20americans%
20proudly%20take%20home%20bronze&st=cse

I've thought about the Spanish ad for some time now and I feel like I have to say something.

Right off the bat, I am a Korean-American have been living in the USA for 20+ years since childhood. I have experienced all degrees of racism, from ignorant kids at the elementary school who made the same slant eye gestures at me (to mock and provoke, not to make me feel welcome), all the way up to just last weekend when a driver in car waiting for my parking spot as I was loading my 18 month old son yelled out "Are you leaving, Sushi?" The latter happened at a parking lot of a children's playgroun