"Laker PF/C Pau Gasol admitted being uncomfortable with the pic from the start and regretted not putting the kibbosh on the proceedings."

Oh, so Pau was "uncomfortable"? So he knew it was a racist thing. He objected? And objected again?

Well, what can we expect for someon who's so soft? Quit pushing me! OK, I'll let you through.

I thought Gasol's problem was his body type but from what I've read I can see it also has to do with his mind.

The guy should have just walked away from the photo shoot. And when they asked him about it he should have said it was something he opposed. But just like against the Celtics in the finals...he just let himself get pushed around.

mike t.

Soooft!

mike t.

Mychal Thompson and the other person on his show this afternoon were discussing this. Thompson made the point that, overall, the U.S. is the least racist society in the world. (Which is probably true.) Then they started talking about how 8/8/08 was considered an exceptionally lucky day in China, and Thompson was asked what the "lucky numbers" were in the Bahamas. He said that "people in the Bahamas didn't believe in luck, just in prayer and working hard. If they worked at all." OF course, that statement is "racist" because it promotes a negative stereotype. Is Thompson "racist"?

And why is squinting your eyes "racist"? Mimicking a physical characteristic is racist? Why is that?

Ex,

"Provoking thought, or doing something to get a laugh? In general, I think the latter. Which isn't necessarily bad. Do you feel the same way about Andrew Dice Clay's humor from 10-15(?) years ago, which poked fun at characteristics of black culture in the U.S.? If the Chinese basketball team took a picture with eyes wide open in an exaggerated pose, would anyone be squawking?"

I'm probably the wrong person to ask the first question, since I don't think Andrew Dice Clay has ever experienced a funny day in his life, save his pre-fame cameo in "Pretty in Pink" and the "Ford Fairlane" pitch meetings, which must have been unintentionally hysterical.

But generally speaking, I think Dice's humor hit the most obvious points in stereotypical and predictable ways without really "saying much." In my mind, that's different than someone like Chappelle pushing the edge through examination. As opposed to Dice, who is simply pushing the lines of good taste. The latter can be done by anybody. The former takes talent.

In terms of the "eyes wide open" Chinese team photo scenario, I don't think the example works, because to the best of my knowledge, Americans have never been made fun of for their eyes. Thus, I'm guessing it would come across more just totally random and bizarre, as opposed to potentially offensive.

AK

hey, man. Love, joy and peace... love, joy and peace my brothers...

Gasol is obviously not a bad guy and it's not as easy as you think to tell a sponsor "no" on something. He's apologized so... what else do you want him to do?

Team USA covered up the logo of their one non-Nike player. The Spanish team did their photo at the request of their sponsor, Team USA covered up the logo of one player because of their sponsor. Sponsors demand things, it's not like the players have a lot of time or advance notice on things like this. Certainly, trying to gauge how people are going to react to a certain picture when your picture is taken almost daily by multiple cameras is asking a bit much, especially considering Gasol and crew don't work in advertising or marketing, they are basketball players, that's what they do, they play basketball... maybe more blame should go to their "people" who spend their days making money off the basketball players?

Have you guys seen the video of Janos Baranyai? Hoofa...

Laker Truth,

"AK, "I agree with people who claim this photo doesn't represent true "racism," but rather racial insensitivity. "

When the Spanish crowd chanted "monkey" at black soccer players, was that a form of racism or just racial insensitivity? My take is it was both racially insensitve and a form of racism."

I hear what you're saying and I can respect that opinion. I just think the "monkey" example is considerably worse and was done with obvious ill-intent. If you don't agree, I honestly do understand. But that's where I think the difference lies.

AK

The is this classic movie called "Breakfast at Tiffany's". In this movie Mickey Rooney played a character named: Mr. Yunioshi. Ronney came out with the slanted eyes, thick glasses and buck teeth look to represent an oriental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakfast_at_Tiffany's

Criticism

Many critics consider the film's sole blunder to be Caucasian Mickey Rooney's "yellowfaced" performance as Holly's bucktoothed, stereotyped Japanese neighbor, a point of contention raised in the 1993 film Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, and on the March 17, 2008 episode of The Colbert Report. In the 45th anniversary edition DVD release, producer Richard Shepherd repeatedly apologizes for this, stating "If we could just change Mickey Rooney, I'd be thrilled with the movie." Edwards does not apologize for the portrayal, although he does say he would cast someone else if he had the chance.

The question would be this: What does sterotype actually mean? Because the Spainish team is guilty of sterotyping the Chinesse people.

What does it mean? Blacks don't have what it takes to be front office personal? 10 Hispanics live in the same house? When these type of sterotype are used what is meant by those discriptions? Is it a put down? Is it saying that blacks have mental limiations? Hispanics has limited capabilities to take care of themselves?

I don't know what is meant by all that. I do know that it's something that is a terrible description of the human potential of a group of human beings.

So when the Spainish team does the slanted eye thing: What are they trying to say? That Chinesse people are a joke because they have slanted eyes?

It makes no sense. I say that Spain is a elitist country in their own mind. Someone should tell them that Cortez is dead and they lost control of the world, if they ever had it, a long time ago. They are no longer a "cultured" society but a snobish society and that photo proves it. It's just part of their normal way of thinking.

mike t.

LAKER TRUTH,

That ugly monkey incident is a whole different level of magnitude. People will still apologize for it, but if they're in the US, they're not going to apologize for it in as many ways as you described.

It's lame to make excuses for it at all. Even the obviously racial insensitive Spanish national basketball team would know better with that one, even under pressure from sponsors.

Here's what I propose.

The Chinese team should pose for a photo with bullfighter
garb on in a provocative pose with one of them pretending
to be the bull. That should even things out a bit.

AK,
"Americans have never been made fun of for their eyes. "

Getting called "round eyes" would meet that criteria.

I think this is another example of a double-standard, where racial insensitivity by whites is assumed to stem from racism, but racial insensitivity by non-whites is not.

Chances are, some of the Spanish players probably are racist; European cultures have a greater tendency towards that than our own does (as do Asian cultures, as Benjamin noted.)

But assuming that making squinty eyes is racist in and of itself has no basis.

"Because the Spainish team is guilty of sterotyping the Chinesse people."

Is it a valid stereotype? Yes. So would someone saying that Chinese people have straight, black hair.

Is it a stereotype to say that blacks have curly hair? Yes.

Spain is like Rome. Rome ruled the world once. But that was a long time ago. But still, in the Italian mind, they take great pride in their history as contrbutors to the world.

Spain has the same lofty reflections of themselves. Awwwh! Remember when we just to be this and that? Awwwwh, the world owes our culture a great debt.

Suckers! You've been paid a million times over. Now get in the back of the line and shut up! You have no more influence in the world other than to complain about the way the world is today.

Rather than accept their lot in today's society they cling to the good old days when racism was just part of the norm.

That photo proves how their mind is conditioned to their everyday thoughts.

mike t.

Pig
Some of Chappelle's stuff clearly is making a point. And a lot of it isn't. And Chapelle also makes fun of black culture; again -some of it is to make a point, and a lot of it isn't. Same thing as South Park or Saturday Night Live.

Was John Belushi racist for doing his samurai skits? I don't think so.

Or Eddie Murphy for doing his takeoffs on Mr. Rogers, with his "How to be a Ho" book? I don't think so.

Were they "making a point" or just trying to be funny?

Racial insensitivity is the precursor to racism. I can't believe how reluctant some of you are to admit that, yes, there are many people in this world who hate others based on their race.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that racism exist?

Ex,

"AK,
"Americans have never been made fun of for their eyes. "

Getting called "round eyes" would meet that criteria. I think this is another example of a double-standard, where racial insensitivity by whites is assumed to stem from racism, but racial insensitivity by non-whites is not."

"Round eyes" wasn't a double standard on my part. It honestly never popped into my head to begin with, since I've never heard a white person get referred to that way outside of a war movie from the Vietnam era or earlier. Perhaps that's just my experience, but I can also only go off my experiences.

At the same time, however, if the Chinese team took a picture like the one you described earlier (with eyes opened in exaggerated fashion) and called it "the round eye photo," I'm willing to bet it would have required some explaining. Especially with them as the hosts of this entire event. Do you honestly think otherwise?

AK

troy,

>>>Lets not forget that Spanish fans often throw bananas at
>>>black soccer players and make monkey sounds. I guess
>>>that's just being politically incorrect, right.

Thank you. This provides a perfect counterexample.

When Spanish fans do this, the intent is to imply that black
people are monkeys, thus implying racial superiority, aka
racism.

So how exactly does making their eyes slanted imply
racial superiority?

Ex,

It seemed like that sentence you used was taken out of context. I agree that all of those comics were proving a point sometimes and other times not.

I guess I've lost where you're argument is.

Dave Chapelle is an amazing comedian, not matter how you slice it.

LTLF,

I agree with your take. It doesn't seem to have any malcontent behind it, so the pic is likely just in bad taste.

Most people throw the word racist around without even knowing what it really means. Usually, people are referring to prejudice or stereotype when they mention racism. Mike t. is a racist. The Spaniards are merely expressing prejudice and a bit of ignorance.

AK:
I now want to hear all about your improv group!

I used to be in a band in the early '80s that specialized in being politically incorrect. I played and sang one of our satirical song at a campfire. The song poked equal fun both at a particular ethnic group and bigots. It backfired so completely, I thought I was on an episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm."

One of the funniest parodies I ever saw along these lines was on the "Ben Stiller Show." Stiller did a piece on "U2, the Early Years," playing a Bono who was only in it for the money. I sat with my mouth open as he sang a song hawking Lucky Charms.

Back to basketball: A funny SNL bit had Michael Jordan coming into an all white league, tranforming the game, and all his teammates (and announcers) hated it because it made them look bad.

I'm so glad that we have such perfect people on this blog that have never done anything wrong or stupid like Michael T. clean as the wind driven snow, very Mary Poppins like, you know "practically perfect in every way"

how about it Michael, have you ever inadvertently offended someone???

you guys need to lighten up:

http://tinyurl.com/62ywch

how about it Michael, have you ever inadvertently offended someone???

Are you kidding me? I don't do anything inadvertently (pretty good word). If I have something to say. I say it!

Just ask AK, BK and anyone else. If I think you're trying to lay down a racist point of view...I SAY SO! And I don't use pretty words to get my point across.

Inadvertently...you've got to be kidding me.

mike t.

Stereotypes in general are not the problem. It is a natural human tendancy to stereotype to some degree. It is how we oraganize--categorize-all kinds of things around us.
The further a subject is away from us, the more we tend to rely on some kind of sterotype to help us make sense of things. The closer we are to a subject the less likely we are to have a need to generalize.

Rainclouds produce rain. It is a good bet, but never a guarantee. Past behavior, predicts future behavior but not in every instance.

We talk statistics all the time on the blog; which takes stereotyping the mathmatical level. I can generate an idea-or an assumption--by the stat, but I will never truly know anything at all about the individual inputs used to generate that stat. It helps me to understand the tendancies of the whole, but gives me nothing of use for the individual.

People who use stereotypes to make some claim of fact are ignorant. But to say stereotypes are of no use is also ignorant.

It is the false stereotype that is damaging ( black people can't swim, etc. ). Strawman (fake ) stereotypes are used by lazy ( usually angry ) people in lieu of a logical argument. ( Neo-cons love to do this )

The Spaniards were just plain ignorant; not malicious. It wasn't funny because they were just making fun of their eyes- and not questioning the validity of stereotype.
That is why people like Chappelle are funny. They make us look at the stereotype. It is that self examination--that we employ stereotypes on a daily basis--that makes it funny-we get to laugh at ourselves.

The black KKK member bit on Chappelle was all time. No prisoners in comedy my friends. B-ballers aren't funny---someone please send the memo to Shack as well as the Spaniards.

"Michael it sounds to me like you have something to say even when you have nothing to say, which is most of the time."

Again, you notice my "practically perfect in every way" nature. I have to tell ya, knowledge is a good thing. It allows a person to be able to elaborate on many subjects. To enjoy the beauty of different cultures. Can you imagine listening to "Liquid Love" one second and "Moonriver" the next. Awwwwh, Oh dearest, oh dearest...where art thou?

Damn, poetic, too!

mike t.

Let's throw a little bit of humor into this thread

http://tinyurl.com/67k3p9

About 40 seconds in.

Ya'll are a bunch of crazy round eyed racists!

just kidding