Kobe, GET THE SURGERY!! Don't be like Shaq and wait to get it done on company time. DO IT NOW!!

Posted by: rdlee | August 31, 2008 at 05:35 AM

Ya "C" what I mean? Dogging on Shaq.

Also, Kobe does not need "surgery". Pinky-gate was a scam to get sympathy votes for MVP. Starlet is an attention whore who craves to be like Jordan, but is nothing but a first class loser.

Ya remember the kid who's annoying as hell and trys way too hard to fit in? That's your Starlet. Look at Pierce, the guy goes about his business. Doesn't try and do too much, win a championship and Finals MVP honors.

Next season will be a repeat of the title.

ahahahahahhhaha

"The lakers lost tuiriaf, who defended the paint well."

Butler, Turiaf was horrible at defending the paint. After Pau's injury the Lakers had a 5-4 record while Pau was out (which is better than being 8-8 under Kwa-may Brown). Don't forget last offseason we didn't do crap except sign Fisher and get J-Critt. Then whalla we become a dark horse to win the WCF. There was tons of pressure last year for Bynum as well to prove that he wasn't worth to ship his butt out for Jason Kidd and well he proved it. This year he will again prove he can work well, he has proved it.

Green Weenie from Beenie,

Hey don't shoot the messenger but it was Michael C. Teniente that dissed Ray Ray and Will somebody stab Paul Pierce's defense and stated that Perkins was the shut down defender. Go stab him.

mrbarneydangles,

First of all, I hated that kid show Barney hehe. Second remember that video was taken in 2007 Pre-Draft. According to what he said, he had a horrible pre-draft but at the Olympics he did better. I admit Farmar is more better at stealing balls since Jordan tends to read the passing lanes well though he gambles way too much a bit for his own good. Jordan is without a doubt faster as he got a 3.17 in the 3/4 sprint while Sun got a 3.45 However at the Pre-Draft Camp in Orlando, Sun's lane agility was 10.68 which was the top 3 in the camp (so my thing about his lateral quickness may have been wrong). Plus he has the edge against Farmar because Jordan had a 11.07 sprint. Jordan's vertical is a bit misleading since Wade's vertical was lower yet Wade can be able to layup it better than Jordan could.

I'll do comparison of Jordan vs Sun

Vertical Leap (Both No Step and Max):

Jordan Farmar: 33.5 (No Step) 42 (Max)
Sun Yue: 32 (No Step) 34.5(Max)
Edge: Jordan Farmar

Speed (3/4) Sprint

Jordan Farmar: 3.17
Sun Yue: 3.50
Edge: Jordan Farmar

Quickness/Agility Drill

Jordan Farmar: 11.07
Sun Yue: 10.50
Edge: Sun Yue

Shooting (Close Range)
Edge: Sun Yue

Shooting (Mid/Long Range)
Edge: Jordan Farmar

Lay ups:
Edge: Equal. Jordan has few moves once he reaches the basket but Sun's layups while having more moves is still unpolished.

Driving to the basket:
Edge: Slight edge to Sun. Height and body size is an advantage and can post up better. Plus Sun has more quickness than Jordan has.

Steals ability:
Edge: Jordan Farmar, leads to fastbreaks better

Blocks ability:
Edge: Sun Yue, shot block skills help deter shots plus really good at help defense.

Overall Defense:
Edge: Sun Yue.

Decision Making:
Edge: Slight edge to Jordan Farmar. He knows the American game much better (NBA and NCAA experience). Sun Yue only has ABA for American experience and Olympics is much different from the NBA.

Overall Edge: At the moment Jordan Farmar over Sun Yue. However, once Sun gets more American experience, his decision making would probably improve and could give the slight edge over Jordan in the long term.

blitz & dangles,

Thanks for your comments regarding Jordan Farmar and Sun Yue. You both made excellent points to support your takes. I personally like both of these players a lot and think one of the strengths of this Lakers roster, besides its depth, is the untapped potential of the non-starters. That potential shows up in the depth chart of every position on the team in my opinion but is most important at point guard due to Derek Fisher’s age and mileage, which makes Jordan Farmar and Sun Yue critical components in the Lakers long term roster plans.

Right now, Jordan Farmar has proven that he is a more than capable backup point guard so he has to be given the edge over Sun Yue who hasn’t played in the NBA at all. I disagree with blitz regarding Jordan’s athleticism and still see him as fully capable of become a Tony Parker style and level of player for the Lakers. He is not quite as quick or fast as Parker, but is stronger and a better leaper, as shown by his rebounding edge. Jordan Farmar is the current favorite in my mind to become the Lakers starting point guard in the future.

Jordan does not need to develop a tear drop shot but just put the shot back in his arsenal. When he first joined the Lakers, it was really his signature shot but for some reason he abandoned it. Probably due to losing his confidence a bit when Phil continued to stick with Smush. Jordan also definitely needs to develop a jump stop to end drives into the paint. He is not quick enough to out-quick defenders to the rim like Tony, which is why he sometimes gets his gliding layups blocked. He needs to get into the paint and then do a jump stop on both feet, which will then give him several options. I also suspect Jordan needs to jump off both feet to utilize his 42” vertical, which is another reason to jump stop at the end of drives.

The key traits that qualify Jordan Farmar to become the Lakers starting point guard down the road are his Kobe-esque work ethic, strong leadership abilities, unwavering self-confidence, and mental toughness and ability to play big in big games. Those who count Jordan out as a potential future starter at the point underestimate Jordan or misjudge what our team needs. We can’t afford nor do we need a Chris Paul or Deron Williams at point guard. We need a smart player who runs the offense, hits the open shot, and plays good defense. Defense is the only question that Jordan needs to answer in order to become our future point guard. Having a shot blocker like Drew will help greatly but Jordan needs to be much tougher on defense.

And defense is one of the major reasons why Sun Yue may someday overtake Jordan and become our starting point guard. For a 6-9 player with long arms and excellent speed, quickness, and shot blocking instincts, Sun has the potential to become a lock-down defender at the point guard position. With his height and length, he does not have to play as tight on other point guards, which will help him stay in front of them. And when he gets beaten, Sun still has the ability to block the shot from behind. I disagree with dangles’ comment that blocked shots are no big deal for a point guard. Sun Yue’s height and length could dominate many NBA point guards and make it very hard for them to get a shot off. He has the body and instincts to become a Michael Cooper type player. But does he have the heart?

Offensively, Sun Yue can be the perfect point guard for the Triangle Offense at 6-9. He will have to prove he can be a reliable shooter, which I think he will. You cannot teach height and length and the ability to see over a defense makes delivering entry passes to the post easier as well as posting up smaller guards, which would be another area where Sun could show fans a touch of Magic. The key is that the guy is really already an excellent ball handler and passer, especially for a guy 6-9. And I like the idea that he finishes at the rim with 2-handed dunks rather than soft layups. He has a quick dunk motion similar to Pau’s that doesn’t lend itself to being blocked. He would be dynamite in the open court and I am sure he will want to open up his game in the NBA. He has a little hot dog, which I like.

The ONLY issue with Sun Yue IMO is whether he can play NBA style basketball having come from a program and environment in China that is nowhere near as aggressive. If Sun Yue can attack in the NBA like Jet Li, then he will become the Lakers starting point guard down the road. Just as defense is Farmar’s Achilles heel, mental toughness and personal competitiveness will be Sun Yue’s. I think he has a chance but it may be an uphill struggle. One of the main reasons I am eager to see Sun Yue play in the NBA is that I think we will see right away whether he is going to be able to cut it. If he gets intimidated and loses his confidence, he will not be kept after two years. If, on the other hand, he displays the mental toughness and competitive spirit needed to play NBA style basketball, then we are probably looking at the Lakers future starting point guard.

Tom

blitz,

I forgot to thank for you the video. Appreciate the work. I had seen the video before but thought your timed comments were a great addition. I also pretty much agreed with your head to head comparisons of Jordan and Sun. Both have excellent potential.

What a lot of posters forget is how fortunate the Lakers are to have:

(1) A veteran starting point guard like Derek Fisher, who is the perfect back court mate for Kobe, shoots over 40% from beyond the arc, and is a respected team leader and

(2) A promising back up like Jordan Farmar, who has a great work ethic, outstanding leadership qualities, already contributes solidly as the leader of the bench mob, and has the potential to become a future starter.

(3) A promising back up like Sun Yue, who at 6-9 could become the perfect starting point guard for the Triangle Offense as well as the shut down defender the team has longed for at the point guard position.

I mean, would you rather have Rajon Rondo, Eddie House, and Tony Allen? I think not.

Tom

LakerTom,

I'm wondering since we know you're a big Farmar guy, are you now in favor of Sun being out PG of the future over the Farm?

Laker Tom,

the negatives you said about Jordan is exactly the reason why I say he can't get as good as TP, maybe Bibby is his ceiling. Jordan, while being faster than Sun, is certainly not as fast as Tony is which I believe is one of Tony's best strength. In San Antonio he has been called "Grease Lightning" because of his speed and using Tim Duncan's picks can get to the paint quite often very effectively. If he can use two feet to maximize his vertical that would be more effective but his layups still get blocked too much for my liking. Tear drops do a decent job scoring wise for Tony and if Jordan develops that he can actually be better than Tony in that he can tear drop at the same time do layups more effectively than Tony can do.

Like Tony, Jordan has strong leadership qualities which he develop during his time at UCLA and probably was the biggest factor in getting to the NCAA Finals. Jordan's jump shot though works against him as well and while I believe he will develop it, I don't know if it will be as effective as Tony Parker's is who can also be a spot up shooter. Jordan when I see him play doesn't seem to be the type to be a spot up shooter and instead prefers to set up his team mates like Sasha which is good but also lowers his overall offense. And Tony Parker has proved to be solid on defense since he was trusted to handle CP3 after Bowen was forced on Peja during Round 2 of last year and handled Steve Nash pretty well during times when Bowen wasn't on the court during Round One against the Suns.

The defense of Sun Yue really intrigued me though his shooting from perimeter leaves much to be desired. The passing skills from him is impressive also. Does he have the heart to succeed? From the Olympics yes he does. True that China lost and the offense was primarily around Yao Ming, Yi Jianlian, However Sun really showed nice highlights from showing his driving game which he shows he nice short range shooting to blocks which really are hustle and will, not to mention that infamous block on Dwight Howard. He didn't shoot really well in the Olympics but hey against team USA he was going against Kobe. He doesn't have impressive speed though Jordan is after all faster than him. His jump shot is comparable to Rondo or Lamar so teams would clog the lane to take advantage. Could he play defense? From the Pre-Draft and the Olympics he can really. We shall see once he comes to the NBA style of play.

Xodus, Fish is a career 37% from 3 point land career wise. Last year with the Lakers he shot 40.6%. He is a proven 3 point shooter

Xodus,

>>>>>I don't mean to pick your nits, but Fish shoots 37% from 3. :)

Hey, Karl, thanks for the correction. You’re right. I got Vlade’s and Fish’s stats mixed up. Just a small senior moment. I should be OK by the time the season starts. LOL.

>>>>>I'm wondering since we know you're a big Farmar guy, are you now in favor of
>>>>>Sun being out PG of the future over the Farm?

I still love Farmar but am worried about his defense. I think he will be fine if the team runs on offense and presses and traps as much on defense as I am hoping. It’s Jordan’s half-court defense that still worries me. I love his offense, although he needs to bring back the tear drop and add a jump stop drive, and love his leadership and mental toughness. If he really can improve his defense, he would be NBA starter material for sure. If he doesn’t improve his defense, he could probably still start for the right team, including the Lakers.

As to Sun, I love the IDEA of him in that he is Chinese and I am half-Chinese and that he brings 6-9 height and long arms that give him great advantages over other point guards. He could be the perfect point guard for the Triangle and the defensive stopper we need at point guard. The big test, as I said before, is can he be mentally and physically tough enough to succeed in the NBA having come from a very passive environment on the Chinese team.

Who would I prefer win out? Both of them. I would like to see Jordan improve his defense and Sun prove he can play at the NBA level without being intimidated and pushed around. You’re always a better team when you have strong competition and two players who could be effective starters at a position. I do think that Sun Yue, due to his height and length, has a higher ceiling than Jordan as a potential player. Jordan, however, is a far surer thing to bet on since he already has shown he can play in the NBA at a high level.

My template for Lakers success includes an aggressive pressing and trapping defense with Drew patrolling the paint and protecting the rim designed to generate steals and turnovers and fast break opportunities. It’s a style that takes advantage of the team’s great depth and talent on the bench and also keeps their starters fresh and key players from getting burned out, overtired, and injured. The NBA season can be brutal when players log more than 40 minutes a game. Teams can always use two excellent point guards. Look at the problems that the Celtics and Suns have when their starters leave the game.

Tom

Kobe to appear on Oprah

http://tinyurl.com/5j6wxx

Hope I beat the K bros on this.

P.S. BK>AK

aloha Laker Tom

Since the triangle does not call for a traditional point guard, why does Sun have to replace Jordon at the point? In a few years why couldnt Sun and Jordon be your starting back court, with an aging but still effective Kobe moving to the 3?

MH

BUTLER Sez:

The SUNS have added a potent group of playas this offseason, and were certainly not at full strength for the playoffs (Grant Hill). For all the hullaballoo over the lakers' success last season, they finished only 1 game ahead of the SUNS.
Yes, but let's be clear about the Western Conf last season. The SUNS finished 6th with a record of 55-27, while the lakers finished 1st at 57-25. That's a 1 game difference...

Two rookies! One unproven playa, One euro playa who hasn't seen NBA action yet, and MATT BARNES?!?!? I love your take,btw, of BARNES being a defensive stopper! hahahahahaha, dude is offensively minded and that's it....defensive stopper, LOL!

Oh, and 57-25 vs 55-27 is a TWO game difference my dear, you seem to not grasp that considering you posted "ONE GAME DIFFERENCE" not once, but twice.....cheers mate!

Rayray reporting

Hala Fellas. It's been bout 6 month I havn't been here. I assure you I've been watching and talking junk but at the espn blogs to haters. Now juss reporting to get things on record:

1) I konw I will not be able to watch the replay of the Finals games anytime soon. Their sitting there on the tivo but just can't. Maybe like the Suns Lakers game 6 of 06 I review it some and delete. That just hur....ted.

2) Back up PG. Yes our only issue (and I should add our only issue is a big time issue) is the lack of a chmpionship team back up point. JFarm ain't cutting it and I think we are out of luck on that department again.

3) rayray's Sun Yue scouting report. very good ball handling and speed for the size, very good shooter, highly underrated deffender, top noch shot blocker for his size. Smooth and very smart. Sun needs to get some muscle on but I won't be surprised if he surprises everybody.

4) 72-10 non championship back up point guard and all Jordy can play. He does great when he isn't being pushed and shoved and well pressure is low. And with Drew, Fish, LO and them two boys 72-10 is by no means out of reach.

See ya

thekobebryantblitz,

All this Sue Yue/Jordan Farmar comparisons I believe is premature.

As a Clippers fan, remember Chris Wilcox's tenure there? At the time a lot of Clippers fans were comparing Chris Wilcox to Amare Stoudemire and in some ways, on paper, Chris Wilcox was markedly superior to Amare Stoudemire.

However, as we all know (no disrespect to Chris Wilcox--I like him as a player) Chris Wilcox is no Amare Stoudemire and will never be that good. In the end discussion was moot.

I just think we need a PRE-SEASON before we should be engaging in an aggressive debate over who holds more promise for the Lakers mid and long-term: Jordan Farmar or Sun Yue?

It's just too early for the discussion.

So, when I see what seems like 100 posts on the subject matter in about a week, it just seems crazy to me.

People have been ripping on Michael Teniente's obsessive with Kwame Brown, but at least we've seen the guy play multiple NBA seasons for multiple teams. We've seen NOTHING of Sun Yue except for a a few Olympics games and some ABA statistics.

Isn't this discussion (especially the frequency of it) a bit premature?

GO LAKERS!

All the talk about Sun and other guards is interesting... to a point (pun, it's a pun...). I'm curious about the glut at sf though. Assuming that Odom starts at the 3 and that Kobe (as usual) puts in some time there, what will be the roles of Vlad, Ariza and Luke? I'm not sure how all three could crack a ten-man rotation for instance, unless either Vlad or Luke were to put in minutes at the 4.

Aloha, michael,

>>>>>Since the triangle does not call for a traditional point guard, why does Sun have
>>>>>to replace Jordon at the point? In a few years why couldn’t Sun and Jordon be
>>>>>your starting back court, with an aging but still effective Kobe moving to the 3?

No reason why that wouldn’t work, so long as both Jordan and Sun prove they are consistent shooters. The jury is still out on Jordan and he is probably a better shooter than Sun at this point. I’m also not so sure that point guard and small forward on this team aren’t positions that we sort of platoon the minutes. It makes sense since we really can’t afford to add one player who can do everything at those positions. In other words, with Drew, Pau, and Kobe locking up three positions and Lamar also playing starter minutes, we may see Phil carve up the time at point guard and small forward between two or maybe even three players, if Luke played like he did at the start of the year before and Sun Yue showed some of what we hope to see. This way we can shape the team on the floor to match up best against our opponent.

Of course, we still have to see more from Farmar and we haven’t even seen Sun Yue yet but they both have qualities that can help a team but it will be up to them to become the players. Right now, they will ride the pine until Fish starts to falter. I am hoping that Farmar makes a leap in his play and challenges Fish next year. And that Sun gets a few minutes here and there as we bring him along slowly by playing him in situations where he can have success and build confidence. At small forward, I want to see Ariza become a tough defender and Luke and Vlade come back strong. Might as well throw Chris Mihm returning to pre-injury form while I have my wish list open. And Kobe inspiring great defense like the Olympics.

MH

Jon,

>>>>>All this Sue Yue/Jordan Farmar comparisons I believe is premature.
>>>>>Isn't this discussion (especially the frequency of it) a bit premature?

I don’t think so. One of the legitimate questions for next year’s team is whether or not Jordan Farmar can really challenge Derek Fisher and become the Lakers starting point guard. Most of us are concerned that Jordan’s defense might not be up to the task, even with Drew. We all know Jordan has proven he can play at the level of a top backup but can he grow and become the future starter? That’s a question that interests us and is important.

Sun Yue on the other hand is mostly speculation based on his size and play in the Olympics, where he garnered excellent reviews from Kobe and Pau. We all know he hasn’t even proven he can play in the NBA but you cannot deny he is intriguing. He is an authentic 6-9 natural point guard who has outstanding ball handling and passing skills and a proven knack for blocking shots. How could you not talk about this guy? He may end up being a bust because the NBA is so different from China as far as playing environment. Then again, the Lakers front office saw enough to draft the guy last year and invest in a 2-year guaranteed contract for him. Had he not entered the draft until this year, he probably would have been a mid first round pick rather than an early second round pick.

Finally, what the hell else do we really have to talk about, Jon. LOL. That’s part of what it all comes down to. I’m just grateful to have someone to blog with. Hell, this morning I was so bored I even responded to BUTtLickER and GWB. Humanomaly is muttering to himself. Blitz has gone crazy with stats. So let us have our little fun thinking about what might or could happen. What is interesting is that there is a lot of blog-sync-think when it comes to Farmar and Sun. They are both guys well worth Lakers fans rooting for. They could be part of many Lakers championship teams. That’s better than talking about Shaq or politics, no?

Tom

"1) I konw I will not be able to watch the replay of the Finals games anytime soon. Their sitting there on the tivo but just can't. Maybe like the Suns Lakers game 6 of 06 I review it some and delete. That just hur....ted."

I've enjoyed watching both the SUNS-lakers game 6 and the Finals games. You can see some brilliant basketball played by both the SUNS and Celts - two of the most dominant clubs in the NBA eliminating the lakers, what more could an NBA fan ask for?

It's great to see how much confidence laker fans have in ear-mar and SUN yue...the lakers have no PG in the Rajon Rondo or even the Goran Dragic class, which will be an achilles heel vs. certain teams. Such as the SUNS.

I see byenumb as a Kenyon Martin type - loads of potential, but cursed with bad knees...

LakerTom,

"Finally, what the hell else do we really have to talk about, Jon?"

Okay. Good point. Best argument yet.

GO LAKERS!

"As much as I get caught up in ranking teams, the reality is you also have to consider match-ups. And 2 months from today, we'll find out exactly how the Lakers match-up against a team that has had their number these past couple of seasons - Portland."

Portland has a hex on the lakers for 8 years running. LA will not win that matchup, not with the fantastic reports on Oden's workouts and the additions of Bayless and Rudy Fernandez.

Fernandez took kobee apart in the olympics, and Oden will be a punisher in the paint - he is obviously following AMARE'S lead in recovering from knee surgery.

Meanwhile, the SUNS will continue to have Portland's #...the lakers pray they will not face either portland or PHX in the postseason.

Jon,

>>>>>By the way, LakerTom, so are you a Bruin? Do you follow college football?

I have been a UCLA football fan since the 1950’s, when the football team would spiral out of the huddle up to the line of scrimmage. I was a grade school half-Chinese kid living in a trailer and attending a 2-room rural school in a farming community in Wisconsin but I loved the Bruins uniforms and the way they broke out of the huddle. How stupid is that. From that moment on, I always rooted for powder blue and wanted to go to college at UCLA. My dad actually moved the family to SoCal so that I could go to UCLA. It was my parent’s dream.

As all Bruin football fans, we lived years of being USC’s bitch but we had some glorious times during the Tommy Prothro era with Gary Beban and the greatest Bruin-Trojan football game ever in 1966, when we came back from behind to beat USC 20-16. I loved Prothros’ trick plays. I have followed the team all my life but basketball had become my game and my passion and UCLA football teams continued to greatly disappoint with Donahue. Of course, now we have a proven cheat in Rick Neuheisel and are still USC’s bitch. LOL.

Strangely, I ended up going to Berkeley and Riverside and Cal State LA and lots of other schools but only went to UCLA for one year in a Masters program in Comprehensive Health Planning. I loved the campus, especially playing basketball in Pauley Pavilion, the place where I had grown up watching the 11:00 p.m. replays with Dick Enberg after every Bruin game. How could you not end up a basketball junkie watching those great Bruin teams. Like the Celtics of Russell and Havelicek in the NBA, John Wooden’s and UCLA’s triumphs in college basketball will never be repeated.

Tom

BUTtLickER,

You are so full of it. Time to change your diaper, buddy. Don't you remember Bynum dominating Amare? Can't see through all the crap? Better call mom for help.

Tom

First of all, I think Gregg Doyle is kind of a tool.

Secondly, it seems like Shaq is sort of going through athlete menopause. Bret Favre just went through the same thing, but he didn't leave stupid messages on someone's voice mail.

However, if that allegedly becomes a yes he did...
then the first thing he needs to do is see a therapist. He needs someone to help him become human again, because he has lost touch with reality.

Anyone who picks the Suns to finish higher than 8 may be severly bummed out. As gifted as Amare is physically, he won't hold a team together over crazy Shaq allegations, which will be a distraction during the regular season. Combined with incorporating a new, vastly different system and style, I don't think the Suns will win 45 games next year. Especially if Nash continues to slow down and Barbosa stays predictable.

I think the Clippers have a better chance of making the playoffs.

Mainly, I hope that Kobe gets some R and R, well desrevedly so. Put those dogs up and wonder how a man like Shaq can't exit gracefully from the game that loved him so and now just wants him to stop clowning around in.

What will be the most brutal moment of this upcoming season? Maybe when Phil sticks Sun Yue in the game in the 4th quarter with the game on the line and tells him to guard Chris Paul?

Come on...

I was looking at the lottery results and it looks like Andrew Bynum won the Mega! or at least somebody in Georgia... geez... $132m for somebody out there...

Tom & blitz - okay, well if we were to go with either of your propositions (both of which I could see - either Vlad or Odom swinging between 3 and backup 4), then where does Luke come in? What about Trevor? Give me yout ten-man rotations. Just curious. Personally, I lean more toward the Cook scenario - I have a hard time seeing Odom move to a 6th man position after starting virtually every game of his career... I think coming off the bench might not suit his psyche. Vlad on the other hand, has had his problems with playing an all-around game at the 3 - he might do better back in his more traditional role - coming off the bench as a shooter with more opportunity to freelance.

Suns fans need to prepare for a possible dismal season due largely to Shaq's Mr. Hyde behavior! I have always considered him a big clown but this last fiasco takes the cake. I suspect a possible jail sentence could follow? But for sure Shaq will find it very difficult to play and remain focused at the same time. Kobe was able too during the Colorado hearings as well as during games while being booed by opposing fans. Shaq will definately crumble and retire!

GWB, green weenie from beanie LGCHick

you're the pathetic fool thinking the celts are going to rpt..hahaha---join the rest of the champions that don't (miami and det and san ant)

only the lakers have done it recently

and w/o posey..and the normal complaceny...you're team aint getting a rpt..

but we are winning it...since we have bynum now

hahahahahahahaa

see lgchick
opps--i mean green WEENIE from beanie...