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The forecast: First place

August 29, 2008 |  3:29 pm

Not sure that qualifies as actual "weather," but it does represent a preseason poll taken of various ESPN folks.  The question: How do you picture the West shaking out next season?  The general consensus: With the Lakers at the top, sporting 55 wins.  Obviously, this opinion is based in part on the notion of Andrew Bynum being healthy.  But hey, at least the "experts" believe in the potential for a return to the Finals (if not a trophy).

Interesting notes: Houston, with its newly Artest-ed lineup, sits at No. 3 with a bullet.  Denver misses the playoffs, with Portland taking its ocho slot.  Phoenix and Dallas move to making the postseason (I could see that happening, but I think Portland will finish higher than at least one, if not both).  For those keeping track of L.A.-based squads, the Clippers garnered the "Spinal Tap" spot.    

In the East, Boston is expected to remain where it left off at regular season's end.  Philly jumps up a bit.  Miami jumps up A LOT.  The party, already fading upon Josh Childress' overseas departure and the teeth pulling required to retain Josh Smith, ends abruptly in Atlanta.

Also, an article from CBSSports.com's Gregg Doyel about the steady demise that is Shaq's public image.

AK


The comments to this entry are closed.

Comments

Great to see all the enthusiastic press the Lakers are receiving and Kobe getting the gold. He seems to have made a great trip along with building alliances with the young stars. We can only hope he made Team USA a breeding ground for more Lakers! The truth is we are pretty stocked and maybe our own Lamar Odom is actually practicing this offseason. We need another great improvement year from the bench and all will e wel. The forwards are going to have to think more about defense and rebounding but I do think that the Celtics pounding us so badly might have been a real motivational tool.
Go Lakers, get one this year!

Now this is what I call big respect:
"Without a shadow of a doubt, Kobe carried himself way above every other person on that team," he said.

I dunno Mike T, don't see Amare or Nash playing great defense ... neither has ever done so, and I wonder if Nash is even capable of playing defense, much less great defense.
Both Shaq and Grant Hill are not what they used to be, either.
The new guys are all wait and see. Diaw, Barbosa and Bell don't exactly inspire fear.
BTW I became a big fan of the raw rookie Andrew Bynum when he refused to let Shaq punk him one Christmas night.

"Shaq for defense" as a 36 year old......
Duncan schools Shaq and Shaq is not even as good as David Robinson defensively in David's last season! LOL! Duncan TORCHED Shaq for 40 points in Game 1 and even hit a 3 pointer that Shaq left wide open and Duncan is not even a 3 point threat! Some defense Shaq gives LOL!

I still thank Shaq for the 3 titles he helped us get and always will, but now he's DONE (the current incident will distract him as much as his divorce did early last season).

"And yes, Pau Gasol played soft down low against Perkins. Really, Gasol is physically outmatched against Perkins. Let Gasol focus his game on Kevin Garnett, while Andrew Bynum deals with Perkins, and the results will be different."

The passing lanes were closed to Pau. And Pau's energy was divided among guarding Garnett (no easy task and yet still got KG to shoot 44.4%) and going against Perkins who wasn't a threat offensively (and LO did a good job denying Perkins any chance to score) so Perkins didn't have to waste his energy trying to score and used it all on Pau. With Drew around, indeed it was different. Kwa-may Brown against KG? KG flattened him like a soft scrub.

Staples 24, our Point Guard is Fisher, the kind of point guard Kobe needs at his side. Why? Besides the fact Fish and Kobe are buddies, he is the outside shooter that Kobe can pass out of and hit open shots. TONS of times Fish was set up by Kobe's penetration. Plus Fish is a solid defender unlike Jordan at the time being (it may change). Having a penetrating point guard without a dangerous jump shot clashes with a guard/forward who penetrates as well. (Kobe and Smush, Lebron and Hughes). In this respect, Sasha is more suited for the offense than Jordan Farmar is at the time being. However, Sasha's poor wingspan and his lack of ideal lateral quickness makes him poor match defensively against point guards.

Our point guard is Derek Fisher!

Mike - I understand your point about Shaq. I agree that this was Kerr's reasoning, but even he admits it was a gamble. Shaq's going to clog the lane, be a big body, all of that. He's still a more dominant force than most centers out there. However, he's no longer the player he once was. He's not young, quick or particularly healthy. I'm just don't think he'll be outplaying Andrew this season when they match up but we'll see - it will be fun to watch, for sure.

Glenn and dave m,

Again, this is the Phoenix philosophy for next season. Whether it will work that's another story. But I think it will because I followed the Suns last season when they got Shaq.

And remember this: Allen and Pierce in Boston weren't defensive players, either. The defense is made by Perkins in the middle. Give a team a strong inside defensive presence and it makes it much easier for everyone else to play defense. If Shaq can do this for Phoenix then Nash and Amare will greatly benefit from it.

mike t.

No the defensive ability came from Kevin Garnett aka Defensive Player of the Year!

Boston Celtics without Kevin Garnett aka 2006-2007 season with Perkins: 18th in the league 99.8 points allowed.

Boston Celtics with Kevin Garnett aka 2007-2008 season:
2nd in the League with 90.3 points allowed.

and to top it off:

Memphis Grizzlies with Pau Gasol as Power Forward (05-06 season): 1st in the League with 88.5

Don't disrespect KG or Pau!

thekobebryantblitz

who are you
you must be a prior blogger under a new name or you're a bb junkie or aspiring journalist or statitician or google expert or laker troll or former bb coach or all of the above

Laker Tom,

Please stop repeat posting your comment to Humanoly. It's already live as it is.

AK

AK or BK, I don't which one is on duty right now

but I would just like to say, 24 hrs without a lgc post and the blog has been upgraded instantly.
I'm actually reading the posts now
even Mike. T's post are good ( I agree with his anti phil posts btw). Nice!!!

LA Sports Fan. Prefers Lakers overs Clippers, likes Trojan football but Bruin basketball is more preferrable. I do respect the legends like Russell, Chamberlain, Jordan, Kareem, and Magic and while being a true laker fan, also recoginze some of the great talent of the NBA atm like Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, KG, and up coming ones like CP3 and D-Will. Above all else though I am a true laker fan at heart and will always be.

Laker Tom,

You've really been smoking WAY too much of something illegal if you think Sun Yue (a late second round pick who's been playing in the ABA) is better than a healthy Shaun Livingston (a lottery pick who many journalists expected to become a superstar.)

Let's be reasonable in our optimism.

GO LAKERS!

And remember this: Allen and Pierce in Boston weren't defensive players, either. The defense is made by Perkins in the middle. Give a team a strong inside defensive presence and it makes it much easier for everyone else to play defense. If Shaq can do this for Phoenix then Nash and Amare will greatly benefit from it.

mike t.

Posted by: Michael C. Teniente
GOOD POST
Dang I'm thinking just like you cuzzin, except I'm substituting the words:

shaq for Bynum ( who disappointed you greatly last season by playing better than kwame)

phoenix for L.A (Home of the brave, land of the free, gang capitol of the world)

nash for Fisher ( whos more defense than offense already)

and amare for Pau ( who's defense is better than you might think)

or amare for Lamar ( who's when he's not firstsecondthird option, is a force to deal with himself)

On this thread, we've talked about talent vs talent, strength vs strength, size vs size, and speed vs speed. As Faith has already acknowledged, staying healthy is HUGE for the Lakers this upcoming season. There's still another factor, too. The mental part of the game. It matters more in basketball than in most other team sports, because the action comes so fast and sometimes furious.

Great teams in all sports have great mental discipline, something the Lakers improved on last season, but the team can achieve even greater heights in the 2008-2009 season.

Kobe is a master of this part. With all his talent and skills, this may still be the area where he excels the most.

One of the challenges for AB will be his mental reflexes. No matter how much he's recovered physically, it will take him some weeks to restore the rhythm of his responses. How much he dedicates himself in the area will have an emormous impact on the Lakers forturnes.

I'm counting on Jordan and Sasha to also improve and mature in the mental part of the game. Improved decision making will improve their stats.

And most of all, Lamar and Pau must step up big time in their mental focus. Both have exhibited tendencies to get lost in some Twilight Zone at the most inopportune times.
Vlad and Luke can both do the same, but hopefully their minutes will diminish with the return of AB.

It will be with interest that I watch this part of Lakers basketball unfold. Go Lakers!

Jon K,

The Kambros have my email now. I haven't read every post so I don't know if you have it yet.

Wes

Jon K, same here. It is WAY too early to predict that Sun Yue is going to be a superstar. That is way too much optimism from Laker Tom. That is like saying Jordan Farmer is Steve Nash or that Sasha Vujacic is Glen Rice. There is no comparison yet for Sun Yue. Though I do disagree with the statement of Shaun Livingston to be a superstar. Shaun Livingston before his injury averaged barely 9.3 points 5.1 assists. Plus he was injury prone the 2 years before 06-07.

Jon,

I never said Sun was a better prospect than a healthy Livingston but that he was a better prospect over the currently seriously injured Livingston.

That does not deny the issue that Livingston has never had a good shot nor done much in his 4 years. He also is 2 inches shorter than Sun. Obviously, teams are not looking at Livingston as if he were the lottery pick anymore. Unfortunately for Shaun, he is damaged goods right now and not as good a prospect as Sun Yue. Sorry, John, but that is reality.

Tom

Blitz (& Jon)

>>>>>Jon K, same here. It is WAY too early to predict that Sun Yue is going to be a
>>>>>superstar. That is way too much optimism from Laker Tom. That is like saying
>>>>>Jordan Farmer is Steve Nash or that Sasha Vujacic is Glen Rice. There is no
>>>>>comparison yet for Sun Yue.

Really, why don’t you read all of what I said about Yue versus Livingston before jumping on my comments. Like this ending comment: “And he has not had a devastating and probably career-ending injury. Otherwise, the Clippers would have never cut the ties and the Lakers or some team would have picked him up.”

Despite what Jon and you claim, I never said that 2nd round long shot pick Sun Yue was a better prospect than a healthy lottery pick Shaun Livingston. The issue was why were we signing Sun Yue when Shaun Livingston was available. I explained why the Lakers choose Sun Yue over Livingston. It is a question that nobody but Jon would answer Livingston.

Aside from that, and despite AK’s opinion contrary, Livingston never proved anything but that he couldn’t shoot straight in his time in the NBA. Yes, he WAS a better prospect once. Not any longer though as proven by the fact that the Clippers dropped him and nobody wants to take a chance on him at this point due to his horrendous and probably career ending injury.

Sun Yue is 2” taller and definitely has a much better shooting stroke and has not been prone to injuries. At this point, there is no team in the NBA who would NOT choose Sun over Livingston. Period.

As to whether Sun Yue will be a superstar, I never predicted that. What I did predict is that if he worked hard and lived up to his potential, he would be the perfect point guard for the Lakers and the Triangle Offense and could develop into a shut-down defender at the point with his height, length, speed, quickness, and shot blocking ability. And he will never be a superstar like Magic Johnson for about the 100th time. Is that clear enough!!!

Tom

The Blitz sez:

"Goran Dragic I heard is solid a bit defensively but that was coming from Europe who has a more finesse game. While being better against Nash defensively do you honestly think he can keep the elite point guards of the league such as Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, and especially Allen Iverson from doing much damage? Tony Parker he may know since they both played in Europe but that's not a given. Frankly, Goran is a rookie still much less a 2nd rounder. Will he backup Nash?"

Dragic has proved himself a defensive stopper in Europe, for example, in last year's Euroleague games, Dragic shut down Tony Parker with impressive consistency. It's no mistake that the SUNS wanted Dragic so badly they wanted to draft him in the 1st round if Lopez had already gone by then. He is everything Nash is not, defensively speaking, and the SUNS have been burned by Tony Parker of course.

Dragic is a pure PG but hasn't developed a consistent shot, so he can run a team and has the defensive game, but his current inconsistent shooting makes him primarily a threat as a drive-finish-dish type of player. Regardless, he will be a vast improvement over Leandro as PG, which has the additional effect of allowing LB to simply be the pure scorer that he is.

Nash will mentor Dragic, so it was important to get the slovenian to PHX right away for that process to begin. To call Dragic a rook is a bit deceptive - he's played professionally for a couple years in Europe.

Jon K. sez:

"Where did the Suns finish last year? Was it sixth?"

Yes, but let's be clear about the Western Conf last season. The SUNS finished 6th with a record of 55-27, while the lakers finished 1st at 57-25. That's a 1 game difference...

SHACK has indeed helped the SUNS by improving rebounding and averaging a double-double. Like I mentioned earlier, the SUNS had a problem defensively because Grant Hill was out for the playoffs, leaving defense on the perimeter up to Raja, MV2, and Leandro - not the most effective stoppers against quick guards like manu and TP.

The acquisitions of Matt Barnes, Dragic, Singletary, Amundson and Lopez all improve the team defensively. With the new coach, we can only guess how this team will perform.

What we can say is that the bench and perimeter D personnel is much better than last season, while the top 7 players have been retained. The SUNS will be very good, and I think the lowered expectations will be dandy. The lakers must now carry the mantle of "team most expected to go all the way in the west" and it will mean pressure. Last season the lakers were surprising everyone - now the bullseye is there.

Dont hold Phoenix past against them......But its ok told hold something against anyone thats played with Kwame....?

Let's Go Ls sez:

"FINAL THOUGHTS about CHAMPIONSHIP reality: If one compares KB24's trophy case to Steve Nash's own, for example, it's quite clear who has a leg up in the CHAMPIONSHIP department. Right? Nash's QUIET dependence/reliance on Shaq to save the day LITERALLY is ALL but a pipe dream at this point in time. They had their ONLY chance this past year and did not get it DONE (GO Spurs!)!"

Yup, the SUNS are trying to win a title. Along with the rest of the NBA.

It's interesting to me how worked up laker fans seem to get when discussing SHACK. A lot of negative chatter about the Diesel. I can see why - he's largely gathered the 'popular vote' for the playa most responsible for thos 3 rings, not kobee. And then SHACK replaces kobee with another SG and grabs a 4th ring. After seeing kobee's futile effort with a lesser center in June, it can't help that SHACK disparaged kobee's ability to lead a team to a ring.

SHACK is well liked in AZ, but we don't really know what kind of man he is. I base my opinion on his play on the court and don't much care what happens outside that. So, I'd be really happy if SHACK gets with Rick Barry and learns the granny free throw, and keeps up his excellent effort and play he demonstrated last season. His presence solidifies and improves the SUNS, so I like his contribution.

The nice thing about SHACK and the lakers is - we get to see them fight it out 4 times this season. Til then, I'd urge you to seek peace with the past and look forward to more drama and fun in the future.

"Dragic has proved himself a defensive stopper in Europe"

That's the point though Butler, Europe is one thing, they are more finesse and focused on very much everyone should get a decent shot going. (Stojakovic, Toni Kukoc, Nowitzki). The NBA is another. Certain big men like Pau and Dirk managed to succeed very well in the NBA. Some others like Diaw got a very good role as role players. However many others like Darko and even Radmanovic didn't live up to the expectations. The NBA, however lose it is compared to the Jordan era, is still much more physical than Europe. Tony Parker is one thing, he is European and played by European rules. Deron Williams, CP3, and even Allen Iverson is a different type of athlete. Those guys have incredible amount of skill and Goran will have to go against them which is hard no matter what. It is also hard to believe in my opinion that Goran will not be able to catch up especiallly in his first year. Goran may be solid from the perimeter but I don't see him shutting down either Deron Williams or CP3.

"Dragic is a pure PG but hasn't developed a consistent shot, so he can run a team and has the defensive game, but his current inconsistent shooting makes him primarily a threat as a drive-finish-dish type of player. Regardless, he will be a vast improvement over Leandro as PG, which has the additional effect of allowing LB to simply be the pure scorer that he is.

Nash will mentor Dragic, so it was important to get the slovenian to PHX right away for that process to begin. To call Dragic a rook is a bit deceptive - he's played professionally for a couple years in Europe."

Rookie is appropriate in my opinion because of my earlier statement that Europe is not as tough as it is in the NBA. He has to get used to the NBA and that takes time. By the time he could really be effective at all, would be the time that Steve Nash is retired and as much as you can hope that he does well, I don't think he will become as great as Nash is or ever will be.

The point is Laker Tom is that Sun Yue, while having potential is still a long way to go before I would really think he is very viable to the NBA. Yes he has earn credit from Kobe and CP3 and has good experience playing in the Olympics. I've seen his work outs with the Lakers and they look good. His athelticism while not bad should be something to work on. Sun still has to work on shooting which is definately something he does need to tinker. I mean in terms of 3 pointers (this is FIBA which is shorter than NBA) he shot less than 37.2% from 3 point land which is concerning when that translates to NBA 3 point shooting and how his long distance 2 point shooting are. He hasn't really gotten me with his athleticism either. Plus his vertical (last year, it might be different after the Olympics) is 34.5 which is still low compared to Jordan Farmar's 42 inch vertical. That being said, he could be a better NBA 3 point shooter than Livingston (livingston shot barely 31.3% from 3 point land in his best season), has a nice array of movies in short range and is a good shot blocker at guard and looks to be a future good defender against point guards. He looks to be good Laker Tom.

Mike T

Who the frak was the Bulls coach when they were the dominant defensive team in the league, probably the 2nd most dominant defensive team in league history?

Blitz (& Jon)

>>>>>That being said, he could be a better NBA 3 point shooter than Livingston
>>>>>(livingston shot barely 31.3% from 3 point land in his best season), has a nice array
>>>>>of movies in short range and is a good shot blocker at guard and looks to be a
>>>>>future good defender against point guards.

I think we see the same potential in Sun Yue, great height and ball handling skills and a natural instinct and timing to block shots. I believe his pick was an inspired move by Mitch and that Sun would have been a mid first round pick if he had waited until after the Olympics and entered this year’s draft. Nevertheless, he will still have to prove that he has the mental ability and toughness to play NBA caliber basketball, considering he is Chinese and comes from a completely different sports environment. His time spent in the CBA here will help and I think he will be extremely motivated. I think he will be great but only time will tell.

>>>>>Sun still has to work on shooting which is definitely something he does need to
>>>>>tinker. I mean in terms of 3 pointers (this is FIBA which is shorter than NBA)
>>>>>he shot less than 37.2% from 3 point land which is concerning when that translates
>>>>>to NBA 3 point shooting and how his long distance 2 point shooting are.

As a former shooter, I’ve always believed you could tell a good shooter by watching him shoot. While there are always exceptions – the Matrix comes to mind – the great shooters were almost always great shooters. Some guys can improve their stroke – Magic and Karl Malone come to mind – but they are the exception. Maybe they had to learn how to do it under pressure, ala Sasha, but you could watch their stroke and know they could shoot.

The point I am struggling to get to is that I like the smoothness and easiness of Sun Yue’s jumpshot. He has the classic left-handers soft touch and smooth release and should become a better shooter once free of the Chinese system, which focuses obviously on getting the ball inside to Yao. His shot reminds me of Gail Goodrich’s. On the other hand, I always thought Livingston had zero touch or muscle memory on his shot. He was almost too athletic.

>>>>> He hasn't really gotten me with his athleticism either. Plus his vertical (last year,
>>>>>it might be different after the Olympics) is 34.5 which is still low compared to
>>>>>Jordan Farmar's 42 inch vertical.

Frankly, here is another case where statistics only tell part of the story. One of my biggest disappointments about Jordan’s progress so far has been that he does not play like someone with a 42 inch vertical. Maybe it’s because he is a two-footed rather than 1-footed jumper. If so, he needs to learn how to use a jump stop in his moves to the rim so that he can jump off of both feet. Sun, on the other hand, plays taller than his vertical leap because of his height and length and quickness. He uses quickness to make his dunks much like Pau does. He does not have to gather himself the way that Farmar seems to. When he drives to the rim, he uses speed to get there first and often dunks with two hands.

>>>>>He looks to be good Laker Tom.

I think so, too. Especially for a second round pick and especially since he could fill some very important needs on offense and defense at point guard for the Lakers down the road.

Tom

KBBlitz - Some things to remember...

The Southwest Division, although stacked, cannot have more than 2 teams in the top 4.

Memphis allowing the fewest PPG a couple years back didn't make them a great defensive team. It just means that, on the average, they played a slower pace. Games can usually vary anywhere between 90 and 105 possessions per game (for each team). That's a very big window - potentially 20 to 30 extra points attritutable to pace alone. Even if the fast paced teams only score on a third of those possessions, it's still a 10 point swing that has nothing to do with being a better offensive or defensive team.

Points per possession allowed is the stat that best defines defensive efficiency. 82games.com is one website I know that keeps that stat. But, given I got to so many games, I'm also a big believer in using your eyes to decide who you think is great defensively.

Other thoughts...

As much as I get caught up in ranking teams, the reality is you also have to consider match-ups. And 2 months from today, we'll find out exactly how the Lakers match-up against a team that has had their number these past couple of seasons - Portland.

I'm very curious to see which returning players made huge strides this off-season and who remained stagnant and complacent. Every season there are always a couple surprise players coming out of training camp as well as others who had an amazing previous season only to have huge drop-offs (think Boris Diaw).

I'm excited for all of it. Can't wait.

I wonder if the Suns have figured out what the cover of their media guide is going to be this year yet. The reflection of the Championship trophy in Nash's eyes didn't work. Maybe they should just have Nash take a picture holding the trophy. Positive visualization. Put it out there and the universe will deliver it to you.

I love that they had the gall to wear their sense of entitlement on their sleeve like that.

I don't know where the Lakers will finish this year or with how many wins. I'm not a big fan of the whole predicting thing. I hate it when the media does it. It's like a mad scramble to be right about something before anyone else but everyone makes so many predictions that it just becomes convoluted. Just like the whole - who WILL be the next Jordan conversation. How about this? When someone actually becomes the next Jordan, feel free to point it out. But until someone does, all the predictions are just lame. That being said...I really HOPE the Lakers finish with the best record in the league and have home court throughout the playoffs.

Mike T.,

how do you figure PJ is an obstacle to the Lakers wining the championship?

1. Until this year, the Lakers did not have the players to be good offensively. Once Bynum flourished and we traded for Pau, we had periods of time where the Lakers ran the triangle offense better than it has ever been run. Pretty enough to bring tears to Tex Winter's eyes. but that kind of efficiency takes time to build and unfortunately with Kwame the Lakers could never rely on him to even catch passes, let alone finish plays. Now we have Bynum and Pau who both can catch and finish and pass our efficiency will grow even more on the offensive end. I have nothing against Kwame but his lack of concentration and confidence, was an offensive liability.

2. Because of the lakers grasp and efficiency on the offensive end, we can take this off season to spend learning the defensive scheme. Pau understood the offfense almost immediately. Bynum is a year older and had plenty of time to watch and see the offense run well. He will be a grade A beast this year. I predict the Lakers have 3 or 4 all-stars this year. And i also predict that the Lakers are near the top of the league in opponents FG%.

3. The Celtics had lots of vets who were used to plays being run for them, so they could basically call there number on the offensive end and the big 3 would deliver. They could then spend most of their time worrying about defense without having to worry too much about offense. Isolate or pick and roll and with their talent, they were bound to have success. When the inexperienced Lakers players played these all stars, they lost confidence and the whole thing just snowballed.

4. Bynum will prevent Perkins from being able to roam to help in the interior defense. Kobe will move to the 3 spot and Lamar will play the 2,3, or 4 depending on the situaiton and the lakers will be one of the best offensive teams ever i predict this year in terms of passing and efficiency on the offensive end. They may not score as much as other teams of the past, but they will be almost unstoppable offensively.

Thirtyy2

"...RUSH ....The greatest 3 piece band ever......

They invented progressive rock.........................Let me rephrase that...They refined progressive rock.....Great band

Posted by: Thirty2"

My favorite 3 piece band ever was Emerson, Lake & Palmer....saw them live a few times....I will check out Rush...

as to how Lakers finish forecasting...why are we all still here, because we can't forecast,

"Forecast Fore*cast"\, v. t.
1. To plan beforehand; to scheme; to project.
He shall forecast his devices against the strongholds. --Dan. xi. 24.
2. To foresee; to calculate beforehand, so as to provide for.

It is wisdom to consider the end of things before we embark, and to forecast consequences. --L'Estrange.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc."


...I always thought a great job would be as a tv weatherman, because you would only work like 30 minutes a day, and basically you could just say "well tomorrow is going to be like today was, but maybe just a little different" then shrug...I'm out, it's getting too hot in here, next topic I forecast: "Why is Kobe putting off getting surgery?"........see if that fly's in wind...

Theblitz,

"Rookie is appropriate in my opinion because of my earlier statement that Europe is not as tough as it is in the NBA. He has to get used to the NBA and that takes time. By the time he could really be effective at all, would be the time that Steve Nash is retired and as much as you can hope that he does well, I don't think he will become as great as Nash is or ever will be."

Well, you're stating an opinion about Dragic that I can't refute or agree with - we haven't seen him play. We'll have to wait to see how he does. He is already proven like I said to be a stopper against the likes of an NBA FInals MVP in Tony Parker. As far as stopping CP3, that's the whole league's problem, not just the SUNS.

Iit's a misconception to assume that a euro player is automatically soft. Did you watch the olympics? FIBA rules encourage a much more physical game than the NBA, a style I would love to see the "soft" NBA adopt. Let's look at some tough Euros - Linas Kleza, Tony Parker, Turiaf, those Greek players..the "finesse" thing is a generalization when the reality is the NBA embraces European playas more and more all the time for their solid fundamental training and dedication to team success over individual glory.

But do I know how Dragic will do? No..

Vertical leap of 42" I think is really exceptional, that's why they mention it, and it show's up in how Jordan is able to block shots on guys that are driving to the hoop...he's able to block without fouling....I think I started this when I mentioned Sun's vertical, but let's veer from here and go somewhere else...let's go to the land of Rodman....why??? Because how was this guy who was a skinny string bean become a rebounding maniac??? Drive...He said,....He had the drive to chase down rebounds, remember all the open shots he passed up, he didn't care about scoring, it distracted him from his passion, an earlier posts had mention of Phil J. declaring Rodman as the "greatest athlete", I don't know in what context, I don't know if that was his opinion of ever coached personally, ever saw play, every known to walk this earth, or ever to had lunch with,....I assume it's having coached, because the other answers I think were players he coached, whatever, it's too foggy now, the meds are kickin in, legal ones,...I bet Rodman's vertical wasn't astronomical, but then again, maybe it was, because he truly became a physical stud, and no I am not going Mike T/Kwame calves here.....Do you ever wonder why no one else ever plays that little tap tap tap, tap it away from everyone else, till you chase the ball down.... I wonder that...maybe he was a lousy shot so he had alot of experience in chasing missed shots? No, I heard that he had offensive skills way back when as well...too bad PJ couldn't bring him back to play with the 4 hall of famers team, he couldn't because Rodman had burned too many bridges, chopped down too many forests (back to the last lyric in that Rush song)....and the Jerry's of LA would not Let It Be.

Bye y'all

Someone said: but I would just like to say, 24 hrs without a lgc post and the blog has been upgraded instantly.

OMG, don't blame me for yoos problems.

Tha'ts right, Boston remains the top dawgs. Fakers winning 55? We'll see about that.

Mi opinion is last season was a freak of nature for yoos FAKERS and next season ya'll be exposed.

Especiall with an aging Starlet, Gasoft and Andrew Olowokandi.

hahhaahahah

Pathetic.

And remember this: Allen and Pierce in Boston weren't defensive players, either. The defense is made by Perkins in the middle. Give a team a strong inside defensive presence and it makes it much easier for everyone else to play defense. If Shaq can do this for Phoenix then Nash and Amare will greatly benefit from it.

mike t.

Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | August 30, 2008 at 02:09 PM

hahahhahahahaha, so I suppose getting the Defensive Player of the Year had nothing to do with Allen and Pierce stepping their game up defensively right? Yeeeeah, it was all about big KENDRICK PERKINS hahahahahaha...SHACK will be able to hold the paint down for 25 mins a game and that's it, maybe 30 if he can actually stay healthy for the whole season

green weenie from beanie...LGChick

yah--we agree----its pathetic of you to exist on the blog..

glad u see it that way also..

'you're still the GWB' green weenie from beanie..

lakers rock....especially with bynum....
celts w/o posey--no rings coming..anymore...too bad for u weeniegirl

"But do I know how Dragic will do? No.."

Neither do I. Can't wait for the regular season to start. One more month to go to at least training camp! Only the season will tell us all how every playa does in the NBA.

Richard, try to use better evidence to make Mike T. see your point. Until better evidence is shown, there is no way that what you will say will convince Mike T. otherwise, he is just too set in his ways about this and that.

lakers_sth,

that's my point exactly. Too bad guys guys like Mike T. and Hobbit only use points per game to determine a defense. There are more factors than just points per game and points per possession. To sum it up FG%, points per possession, are the better story to saying how good a defense is (not the only way but perhaps the best way).

Laker Tom,

the problem with Farmar is that he is only has average athleticism. That's why I get a little confused as to why we Laker fans try to compare him to Tony Parker. BJ Armstrong was compared by Bulls fans to be the next Isiah Thomas (it's good he didn't become Isiah Thomas in management). While Isiah was the favorite of BJ and tried to emulate his game, BJ never had the same athleticism that made Isiah become who he is. Same story for Jordan and TP. Does Jordan do a good job at times running the offense like TP does? Yup he's a solid leader. Plus that 42 vertical inch serves him well as it is the one thing that can make him really dunk the ball at all (don't see TP dunking too much ball either). The biggest difference in TP's game is that Tony has the athleticism that allows him to play to his strength and get into the basket quite frequently. He is a very smart player and for centers with poor defense like Kwa-may Brown, he knows what to do (if the center guards him too far, he passes the ball to Duncan, if too shallow then Tony does a tear drop). Plus Tony has a reliable jumper and can be very dependent to be a spot up shooter. Jordan on the other hand, while having an impressive vertical and has good body control, doesn't have Tony's athleticism. I saw Jordan many times attempt layups I don't know why he hasn't fully adopted a tear drop similar to Tony's. When he goes to layup there has been times where he has been blocked due to his lack of athleticism. To add to this, Jordan doesn't have a really long wing span plus only has average lateral quickness which lowers his defense a bit and makes him alter ways to try to get a layup should he have a shot block right in his face. Jordan has improved his jumper but it's not yet to the point where its even Tony Parker plus he is still not as good from the perimeter when it's spot up. The lack of athleticism is the biggest difference between Jordan Farmar and Tony Parker and any comparison Jordan Farmar comparison to Tony Parker is for now, not realistic.

I disagree with the jumper of Sun Yue though. While it may have improved and because of the offense coming through Yao limited his touches I'm still not convinced yet of Sun's jumper. He does make some I agree but not to the point yet where he can possibly switch to shooting guard. Most of his jumpers that are successful are close jumpers. When I saw him shoot farther distances, they didn't go in as much. I think some advice with Fish can help him very much with his shooting mechanics though at the time being it looks more like Lamar's. His body gives him an extreme advantage when it comes to point guards since he is taller than most of them so he would find his biggest strength to going to post them up and shooting close jumpers. His long range distance jumpers will have to improve though though his defense is something really to be intrigued by. Next post I'll show you.

KB Blitz.


Butler,

Dis I read your post right? Did you actually say that Barbosa can stop Manu Ginobili? I think you should stop talking about basketball all together.

MJT

Why in the world is there so much talk about the Phoenix Suns on this blog? Isn't that the team that got bounced in the FIRST ROUND by the team the Lakers beat in 5 in conference finals?

Let's see, the Suns made no additions to a team that was at full strength in the playoffs and lost to the Spurs in the first round. The Lakers are adding an allstar caliber center to a team that destroyed those same Spurs and came within 2 games of a championship with a less talented team than they'll have this year. Phoenix will be another year older and will be relying on graybeards like Nash, Grant HIll and Shaquille, while the Lakers old guy is the reigning MVP.

With their age and their history, the Suns will be lucky to make the playoffs.

GWB.... I just let him sleep in, before his hard day of work at the DQ, yaknow, the Dairy Queen, come on, let it out....

while I was contemplating my last thoughts, I got a Steve Jobs...."....and one more thing..."

I was trying to figure out what a good "vertical leap" would be, as we have ascertained a few....(including Cobi Karl's vertical being better than Sun Yue's which means that yes, White Men can jump,...well at least one specific White Man did better than one specific Asian Man....) (I capped the W.M, and the A.M to show respect to involved races., justa clarify I'm not going racist here)

so I googled it, and ended up reading up on it on wikipedia, which led me to read up on "basketball" and they made mention in the basketball writeup, and I'm way too sunburned and tired and dehydrated to go back and look it up verbatim (LGC, that's not a brand of blank dvd's that your burnin porn on dude)....anyway they mentioned Spud Webb and that his vertical was exceptional at guess what????? 42 LGC inches!!!!! Whata cowinkydink!!!! So that being written I'd have to say no knockin on Sun for having a 34.5 vertical, I wonder what Kobe's is, probably 40...

....and one more thing, Rodman had exceptional leg strength, remember him guarding Shaq, and Malone, he seemed to hold his own pretty well.

...to LakerTom, that relates, because we've had sidebars and you mentioned AC Green, kinda like I'd call him Power Forward, Version 1.8, and we're up to 3.1, AC Green had a top of key jumpshot, maybe 3" jump, at OSU, but his release of shot was to slow to shoot in the Big Show, because he'd be eating what we called "Spaulding Burgers", that's what we called it when you got stuffed good,..., but he held his own considering he weighed 10 lbs less than our small forward ( and yes I know, people, they have numbers to the postions now, and common man is allowed to use them),..... James Worthy....who woulda guessed it???? I know, most of you out there are thinking, who really cares, forecast the future, forecast the weather, the rankings, the stock market, the price of gas, forecast anything, grommit!!!! Stick to the Blog, well I'm not pimpin my own web site here...Where do you think the 10 lbs of difference was?, in the brain? No, AC's B Ball IQ pretty high, was it in the guns, no, James, probably never lifted a weight in his life, took away from beard trimming time, so where was it? I'd say James probably had the extra weight, therefore strength in his legs, that is why he could dunk a truck, and AC had to resort to barbaric things like boxing his man out for the rebound, J.R. Reid, the 7 footer in college, but 6'8"er in pros, didn't take kindly to those tactics..., LakerTom, eventually AC got married so he got some, and I think he owns a Korean Auto dealership on Beach Blvd, so that would make it LA, or OC, I'm not sure, just hang out there, don't write checks from there.....One of the best games I ever saw was the first time AC had left the Lakers and became a Sun, the team, not the 2nd round Chinese player, (people please, I will finish and vacate the premises, I promise, that's my premise) ....AC and James were going at each other and I was wondering if there was any bad blood there...and sure enough, who had the class to show up at the Laker game when they were honoring James Worthy, but AC Green showed up and was smiling and clapping then had to leave because he had a game, (musta been jersey hangin' day, dang did AC play that much longer??? Worthy retired in 94 so jersey, was hung when? )...I think AC was still a Sun....Phoenix, and you could tell the true admiration he had for the man he played side by side with for years, ..the Suns, what a question mark?.....Phoenix,..twighlight, goodnight....and no, I'm not on alcohol and amphetamines, that would have been Jack, Jack Kerouac..."On the Road", everyone readit (again?)

For those interesting in the Sun Yue pick this video will show a glimpse of what he can offer to the Lakers. I originally wanted to post on youtube with my comments but i'm a little tired and I'd rather wait till at least pre-season to make some mixes. So I'll use a transcript of what I wanted to show in the video while it was going on.

Sun Yue Pre-Draft Video 2007

http://tinyurl.com/5z7k93

0:12--217 lbs now is 214 lbs according to his Olympic bio so some weight lost helps his speed.

0:24--5.5% Body Fat, 6'9 height, Wingspan=6'9. Up to par.

0:57--Vertical Height at best 34.5 inches. Average. But he can dunk it for sure.

1:45--0:15 in that drill. Has some good quickness however still only average athelticism feet wise.

2:41--11 out of 15 in the block drill. As much as Coby Karl. Is quick to get the ball and try to lay it in, sometimes rushed it too fast. Sun got 15 tries in the time limit and got more but Coby only had 13 attempted.

3:01--footwork is nice, that guy to his right really had bad footwork.

3:35--4 out of 8 jump shots made (the ones that could be seen). One of them may have been interfered with by another shot. Nice shots, not overly impressive as a jump shooter though.

5:40--nice penetration moves and his 6'9 body will serve him well especially against other point guards. Should he develop really well, could create problems for the other team by posting up against small guards as shown he can easily shoot over them. Most made jump shots came as a result of good penetration and shooting close to the basket. Defense was really nice to look at though could be foul prone by those attempts at blocks. Lateral quickness may or may not be an issue though against elite guards could be a problem. Hit some tough jump shots but the last two missed and nearly air balled the last one.

(proposed transcript ends).

Analysis:
Jump shooting-C-
Athleticism-C+
Lateral Quickness-C
Body Control-B
Footwork-B+
Speed-B-
Posting-B+
Defense-B+ (Probably the most impressive)
Passing-B

Overall Grade-B, sound grade for early 2nd round pick

Pros: Footwork and b-ball skills. Uses height advantage to go against smaller defenders, driving/posting up and constantly getting high percentage shots. Very nice defense. Shot blocking is solid and proved against Carmelo in 2006 and Dwight Howard in 2008. Has earned praise from Yao Ming, Kobe Bryant, and Chris Paul.

Cons: Jump shooting not overly impressive. Average Athleticism. Could use better lateral quickness and could improve speed to be on pace with the elite point guards especially.

After rookie season, skills at disadvantage against Jordan Farmar (this is assuming their skills remains exactly the same as last season):

Jordan more faster and gets steals much better than Sun Yue. Jump shot is slightly better than Sun Yue. Has better vertical height. Has the experience of hitting buzzer beating (sometimes super long range) 3 pointers. Jordan has more experience in NBA and the Triangle offense and has chemistry at the moment over Sun Yue.

Skills at Advantage against Jordan Farmar.

Much taller and as a result would probably get more blocks assuming equal playing time. Unlike Jordan, can really dunk the ball. Shown more better defensive skills than Jordan and can post up and shoot higher percentage shots while Jordan has very few moves once near the basket. Though both lack athleticism, Sun's height trumps Jordan at the basket.

Conclusion: Jordan Farmar initially because of more NBA experience. Down the road however, Sun could possibly take over the reigns from Jordan.

Sleepy now good night. Hope you like the video.


Humanomaly......

I will check out that band you mentioned..Emerson,Lake and Palmer...I know its totally off topic but music plays a huge part in my life.My mates went to Canada to see Rush then back to the states to see Dream Theater....Instead i bought a 1965 Mustang with that travel money and missed the trip all together..I have since sold my '65' and im renovating my house......I would love to see Rush but they will never come over here to Australia.....The album to listen to is Moving Pictures and Rush live in Rio.....Best live recording i have heard....

Cheers

Xodus,

you wrote: It doesn't matter if the West was tougher top to bottom because the Celtics were something like 25-5 against the West.

my response: actually, yes it does because we're
talking about statistical compilations. How you got
the stats matter. That being said, perhaps better stats
would have been to use the numbers against WC teams.

Kobe, GET THE SURGERY!!
Don't be like Shaq and wait to get it done on company time.
DO IT NOW!!

Still no news about when Kobe's going to give the doc the finger?

MJT sez:

"Butler,

Dis I read your post right? Did you actually say that Barbosa can stop Manu Ginobili? I think you should stop talking about basketball all together."

No. Read more carefully next time, until then, you are on reading probation on my board.


Leo sez:

"Let's see, the Suns made no additions to a team that was at full strength in the playoffs and lost to the Spurs in the first round. The Lakers are adding an allstar caliber center to a team that destroyed those same Spurs and came within 2 games of a championship with a less talented team than they'll have this year. Phoenix will be another year older and will be relying on graybeards like Nash, Grant HIll and Shaquille, while the Lakers old guy is the reigning MVP.

With their age and their history, the Suns will be lucky to make the playoffs."

Leo is likewise on probation on my board, for displaying ignorance beyond reasonable limits.

The SUNS have added a potent group of playas this offseason, and were certainly not at full strength for the playoffs (Grant Hill). For all the hullaballoo over the lakers' success last season, they finished only 1 game ahead of the SUNS.

As for the spurs, the lakers owe their success in the WCF to the SUNS, who aggravated Manu's foot injury, which has no resulted in a necessary surgical procedure for manu. Like I've said before, the SUNS were missing perimeter D without Grant Hill. This season, the SUNS will be playing four new playas on the perimeter, all known for their defensive ability.

The lakers are expected to win the west, however, they will have to go through SHACK for four games, Oden and Roy, Yao and Artest, Posey and CP3. Things have gotten tougher out there, and no one knows yet if byenumb can play at a high level yet, nor if he will mesh with the laker team that did well until they met the toughest D in the league in Boston.

hahahhahahahaha, so I suppose getting the Defensive Player of the Year had nothing to do with Allen and Pierce stepping their game up defensively right? Yeeeeah, it was all about big KENDRICK PERKINS hahahahahaha...SHACK will be able to hold the paint down for 25 mins a game and that's it, maybe 30 if he can actually stay healthy for the whole season

Posted by: I love Kobe | August 30, 2008 at 09:27 PM


I'm the only one allowed to use the "hahhhhahhaah" bit. Patent pending #87-96811.

Yoos kocking Allen and Pierce? My C's played as a team COMMITTED to helping one another and won a championship.

Your Selfish Starlet, on the other hands, kicked Shack out of town to be the #1 guy and plays selfish ball deterring the KG and Allen's of the world from playing in LA.

From 2003-2008, watching the lame Fakers games on x-mas and last season, Starlet Bryant was playing one-on-one defense. Where's the help D? What's up with going for the steal all the time?

Go and watch footage of the 2008 Celtics. From day one, it was a TEAM DEFENSE mindset and nobody cared about being #1.

Basketball is about the team being #1, not any individual player being #1.

hahhahahahahah

Still laughing at yoos pathetic foos.

I still say the lakers are failing in offseason improvements. Everything is riding on shaky legs, to offer a pun.

Byenumb's status is a question mark until he plays consistently with the lakers, and until he meets the elite centers such as yao, SHACK, Perkins (who seemed to dispose of byenumb with ease last season when AB was at 100% health).

How will the chemistry develop with pau and odum? Odom will have to play a lot of small forward which will hurt him because of his slow lateral foot speed, and questionable defensive heart vs. the likes of posey, Artest, etc.

Second, the lakers have an aging point guard who was average at best in his prime and Farmar remains a decent backup only. vujacic has shown himself to be a capable shooter but a vulnerability on D (Ray Allen's series-winning move down the lane made sasha look like he had glue on his soles).

The lakers lost tuiriaf, who defended the paint well.

So, where is the improved D that Boston so clearly showed the lakers would need?

As for the SUNS, they have spent the summer improving D by adding some defensive specialists. With the offense a given with AMARE, NASH, SHACK,HILL, RAJA, LB, DIAW all returning, the SUNS will be tougher than last year, when they finished within 1 game of the West's top seed. Assuming good health, of course.

thekobebryantblitz-

Thanks for the video and your take. I agree with what you say except for the last part. I think Jordan will be better than Sun. Sun looked slow in the videos and far from explosive. Farmar on the other hand has an impresive first step and the ability to steal the basketball. While Farmar is far from excellent at defense, I just don't see Yue having the speed to stay with the quick PG's in the NBA.

You point out that Sun will get more blocks than Farmar, who cares. We have Bynum, Gasol, and Odom for blocking, I doubt the PG position will have a combined 10 blocks all year.

While Sun's height seems like a upgrade over Farmar, Farmar makes up for it with his 40 inch verticle. Farmar stopped driving to the basket in the middle of the season, he is more than capable of putting on the burners and leaping for the jam. Too early to tell for Yue

I like Sun Yue, I just never think he will be the starting PG for the Lakers, maybe backup. On the other hand, I see Farmar having a successful career as the Lakers starting pg due to the fact that the PG in the triangle isn't "too important". Only time will tell.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

That article on Shack is harilious.

You Fakers sure have a bunch of losers as players.

First your Starlet "feuds" with the #1 guy who won all those Finals MVPs, then your Starlet turns out to be a wannabe Jordan all the way, now your former star is first class loser who takes cheapshots at your Starlet.

Not to mention the this blog hates Shack.

Yoos Faker fans are proving LGC right of being bunch shallow and pretencious foos.

hahahahahaahah

Fakers are pathetic. Go C's! One more month til pre-season.

Let's go C's!

 


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