I've got to go with Kobe on this one
The whole "Redeem Team" tag? Pretty, as Bryant put it, "cheesy" (unlike the notion of patriotism, which Bryant finds anything but cheesy). Look, I get it. There's a mission to be fulfilled, a bronze in 2004 was humiliating, America wants to own basketball again, yada, yada, yada. But at the same time, like Bryant says, more than a little cheesy. Just curious if the general blogosphere agrees or disagrees with the Mamba/AK take. If you concur, any thoughts on what would be a better nickname?
Personally, I'm thinking the "It's Amazing What Can Happen When a Roster Is Assembled in Haste-Free/Marbury-Free Fashion, Actually Practices Together for More Than a Few Days Before the Games, and Coach K Doesn't Inexplicably Deny PT to Kobe the Way Larry Brown Did With LeBron, Wade and Melo Team."
But that may not roll off the average fan's/marketing guy's tongue.
Also, curious about what y'all thought about Paul Pierce's clarification offered while on ESPN's Mike and Mike in the Morning Show (which begin around the nineteen minute mark)" As far as Pierce is concerned, this was purely about mustering the confidence needed while on the floor (and
frankly, he was a little tired of discussing Kobe 24/7), as opposed
to dissing #24. For what it's worth, Pierce presents himself as more of a fan than rival of Kobe. They never talk trash while playing (as opposed to Ray Allen, whom Pierce acknowledges has "something going" with Bryant). "I love Kobe," praised Pierce. "I watch him all the time when I'm not playing against him." He also considers Kobe one of top-25 all-time best, even without the seven or so years' worth of accomplishments still to come. Of course, many Kobe fans will automatically take Pierce as
not naming Kobe the all-time best as a "diss" in and of itself, so who
knows? At any rate, I was looking to get a cross-section opinion of Pierce's follow up? Are you now satisfied? Still pissed off?
Or were you like me and couldn't care less if Pierce believes he's better than Kobe (and I'm not really sure he truly believes it as much as he needs to believe it), since the sentiment ultimately means nothing? Yes, I can see where a Laker?Kobe fan could initially be offended, but all emotions aside, does it really matter? Pierce still offers Kobe plenty of respect (and thank heavens, since I'd hate to see Kobe fall short on what's become the most overblown measuring stick in sports, the "respect-o-meter"). And even he's if overrating himself a touch, it doesn't change the fact that a) Pierce remains an inarguably terrific player and b) Kobe is better and more accomplished, which just about anyone not named "Paul Pierce" (or "LGC") or living outside the Boston area wouldn't argue.
Did Pierce have a better Finals series than Kobe? Yeah, I think that's fair to say. But one series doesn't change any rational person's outlook when it comes to a season or body of work. Pierce undoubtedly took an already great career to another level with his role in 2008's title. But it's still a level or two below where Kobe sat to begin with, so it's all relative. And in the end, all pretty small potatoes, when you really think about it.
AK
Never. If Kwame never produces, it will always be the fault of the coach/teammates, never
due to a lack of effort/focus on Kwame's part and/or the possibility that Kwame just isn't a
basketball player - a square peg people keep trying to fit into a round hole.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 19, 2008 at 09:55 AM
Thank you Exhelodrvr, I always knew you were on my side. You obviously know
a gifted basketball player when you see him. I will personally be sending you 2
autographed pictures of my Magnificent Calves.
Your Buddy KWAME
Posted by: KWAME BROWN | August 19, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Ok, is it just me or did Paul Pierce just diss Kobe again with his "top 25 players comment". Let's be realistic, if I'm a Boston fan, isn't Paul Pierce in the top 25 players list? After all he's one of the top scores all time for the Celtics, he pretty much single-handedly outscored the whole Laker team in the Finals on one leg, and he beat 81 point kobe mano a mano.
Now lets be realistic about something else, don't the comparisons between Michael Jordan and Kobe warrant a top 10 ranking by default? I mean the guy gets 3 rings, makes it to the finals 5 times, has an mvp, scores 81 in a game, continues to be on the all-defensive team, and is about to get a gold medal and all Pierce can say is he's in his top 25. Paul, next time you go to the bathroom, bring a stat sheet of your accomplishments and Kobe's and learn what everybody else already knows. Do the math. I think what you'll find is that your half the player Kobe is, and that he deserves a lot more respect than to be on your to 25! I mean who says that, really? When you were in Vegas doin your Melo impression, you must have been smoking crack.
Your a condescending tool, who is too arrogant to acknoledge that the whole world has acknoledged that Kobe is the best player in the world. Live with it. Your pitiful atttempt to elevate your status makes you look like a 3 year old desperate for attention. If your were in the West, the truth is you wouldn't even make the all-star team, and in a watered down east your not even a starter. So how you the best player? Tell you what, why don't you enter the race for MVP just once first and then we will begin to talk. Why don't you win 2 more rings, lead the league in scoring a couple times, and make the all-defense team 3 or 4 times and then we'll have a discussion. Until then don't even THINK for one minute that your even close to the current best all-around player in the world Kobe Bean Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers. Cuz in 20 years nobody will even remember who Paul Pierce was, you jerk.
Did I just say tool?
I'm sorry, go Lakers
Posted by: johnnyBoy | August 19, 2008 at 10:20 AM
mamba24,
"You know Ex. I'm going to start calling you the Mr. Spock of the Blog. Your "logic" is exceedingly sound but show a lil Heart EX. Don't deflate a Laker fans dreams during the dog days of summer"
Thanks for your thoughtful opinions but let's wait till the next thread and see what happens!!
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 19, 2008 at 10:20 AM
I just get the feeling Mike T is trying to turn people against Gasol for some reason, whatever that is... Gasol has been fantastic for us, when Bynum went down, we were cooked, it was OVER JOHNNY. Can you imagine this offseason if we hadn't gotten Gasol? What would Kobe be saying? Now, Mike T spends his days trying to tell us Kobe is going to leave because of Gasol? Hello?
Also, he has this wacky thing against Bynum. I ask you, who isn't rooting for this kid? He's learned at a young age how hard he has to work in the offseason and he has been doing it and the results certainly started showing last season. Who wouldn't want this guy to succeed? Oh... there's one guy... one guy in all of LA who wants to see Bynum fail...
It's just strange one guy would put so much effort into turning fans against these guys. What team wouldn't want a Gasol or a Bynum? We have both! Plus we have Kobe. Look around the league, Mike T says Kobe is going to leave us, where is he going to go? Detroit, to reunite with Kwame? Ahahahahahaa! Really, what better situation is there unless he wants to go to Europe for the money and become irrelevant. Kobe will certainly opt out for more money/years on his contract and I don't think there's any question the Lakers make the max offer to him so... why not enjoy this period a little...
Posted by: Kwaminus I can teach you, but I have to charge Brownicus | August 19, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Jesterguru,
"Can we have some threads that are teniente-free? Seriously, like I was really enjoying the last thread until it became, once again, all about mike t. instead of GREAT LAKERS MOMENTS. This blog is about the LAKERS, not mike t. I'd rather read any post from LGC than any post from mike t. KBros, how about a No Consecultive Posts rule if we can't just ban this egotistical lousy writer of a blowhard?"
BK and I can't instigate "no consecutive posts" rules for one reader and allow others, who are occasionally just as repetitive, to do so. Plus, we don't have the time for that.
Look, I understand why people would find the posts tedious (I think it's fair to say Mike has taken an already dead horse and beaten it to a bloody pulp), but at the same time, if people keep responding to him, he has a right to respond in turn. To a large degree, the blog becomes as much "about Mike" as you make it. My advice would be exactly the same as I've given to people with LGC. If you don't like what he's saying or find it worthwhile, ignore and scroll past.
With respect accorded to Mike, he's long since made up his mind about Kwame's crucial impact on a team and isn't going to change his mind, adjust it slightly, or even acknowledge the boatload of solid evidence (in my opinion) to the contrary. If you already know this, then why argue? It's pointless. I don't agree with Mike's opinion, but if he wants to run with it, more power to him, I guess. But I'm just not wasting my time (or Mike's, really) on this kind of debate. If it bugs you (or anyone else) this much, I would follow suit.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 19, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Taliq,
>>>>>I'm out like the soft cake an ex laker softly chucked accross the room :)
Welcome back, Taliq. A great exposition on the Art of Being Soft. LOL.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 19, 2008 at 10:28 AM
There's only one thing I need to know about Paul Pierce.
He's a laker fan.
That's it.
Posted by: Faith | August 19, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Long Time,
Thanks for the great post on Sun Yue. I agree with you that the kid has a chance to be a real player. I missed the game where he blocked Dwight Howard but just caught the YouTube. That was a great block because Sun kept his body away and gauged the shot just like Kareem taught Drew to do. Sun Yue could be the “perfect” point guard for the Triangle.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 19, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Until then don't even THINK for one minute that your even close to the current best all-around
player in the world Kobe Bean Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers. Cuz in 20 years nobody
will even remember who Paul Pierce was, you jerk. Lakers Posted by: johnnyBoy | August 19, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Always send a JohnnyBoy to do a Man's job! OUT FREAKIN STANDING!! KUDOS!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | August 19, 2008 at 10:33 AM
If Kobe,LeBron and some of the NBA good players move to Europe, then they can establish EBA. The world Champion will be the best of NBA and the best of EBA. And, here we have to modify this East West challenge to be the best of all the teams.
Posted by: Manny | August 19, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Jesterguru,
I agree with you. I loved the "Greatest. Laker. Game. Ever." thread. Something to really talk about.
Threads like whether or not Kobe's assessment of "The Redeem Team" moniker is accurate or not seems to bring out the hate and obsession. I'm not sure why.
A lot of the humor of this blog (no fault to the Kamenetsky Brothers) has evaporated recently. I'm also not sure why, but that was my favorite aspect of this blog. The humor and the passion. Recently its been hate and obsession. Not good.
I'd like to ask the Kamenetsky Brothers to return our attention to why we collectively love the Lakers so much, instead of provoking infighting. I think it may be a lot of me to ask, but it would be nice if that could be done.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 10:44 AM
There's only one thing I need to know about Paul Pierce.
He's a laker fan. That's it. Posted by: Faith | August 19, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Well it's about time you checked in lil sister LOL!
Posted by: mamba24 | August 19, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Jon-
We keep changing the subject, but don't control what people say in response. If you guys want to get back to fun and humor, then short of us really picking and choosing (beyond our rules) what gets posted and what doesn't, in many ways its up to the community to control the tone of the debate. If people want to keep things civil and fun, they can. It just calls for showing a little restraint and confidence enough in your (I'm talking the royal "you," here) opinion that you don't feel compelled to "defend" yourself against every snipe.
Many talk about "not feeding the trolls." The way to do that is to proceed as if they weren't there, as opposed to talking about them so much.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | August 19, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Jon K, I think one of the reasons I love the Lakers so much is, besides the obvious, they are a first class organization, etc. etc. one of the basic reasons is... they are HERE! So I can go to a few home games and see the rest on tv and follow them. If somebody like Kobe or Lebron were to go to Europe, the initial excitement would wear off quickly and I wouldn't really care what they are up to after that.
The difference between say, the LA Kings and the Lakers is, you get to know the Lakers better, the characters, and they usually bring in or have someone who is at or near being the "best" in the league. The Lakers appear to go for greatness while the Kings appear to be satisfied with maybe trying to be one of the better teams and if that doesn't work out, oh well.
While I'm at it, hockey has some SEVERE fan issues, one big issue is that games on tv are pretty much unwatchable. I can appreciate the people who want to maintain the "purity" of the sport but... come on... you play for 3 hours and... you TIE??? and 3 hours of hockey where it's 1-0 or 2-1... zzzzzzzzzz... I'm sorry, that is simply unwatchable...
Posted by: Kwaminus I can teach you, but I have to charge Brownicus | August 19, 2008 at 10:58 AM
NEW THREAD! YEAHHHHHHHHH!!!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | August 19, 2008 at 10:59 AM
AK,
Thanks for responding. I was actually suggesting a No Consecutive Posts rule for everyone. Most people aren't so abusive of the communal space as mike, so it wouldn't be so bad for the rest of us.
But I totally understand that you don't have time to do that type of monitoring. I was just grasping hard for a solution to this mike t. infestation.
As I posted previously, I do currently scroll past his rants. But, I mean, it's like I scroll past 3/4 of the blog now, as he's so freaking ubiquitous. Then I often miss the good stuff from people Like Larry, Benjamin, etc.
And I've long since given up responding to Mike directly. That's why I addressed my last post to you guys.
Anyway, I will use this space to reiterate that I appreciate the job you guys do. I hear Jon when he says the blog has become a lot less fun and less humorous but I don't blame you two at all. I blame mike t., who manages to wring all the joy out of any discussion with his single-focused CKA (Cover Kwame's Ass) blather.
And, worse, I get to a post by someone else and realize they are directly responding to said blather, inspiring even yet more of it.
I thought mike started his own blog after Kwame left. Why has he come back? To gloat about the misfortunes of our team? Great. He could have done that in his own space but I guess nobody was reading it...I wonder why.
Anyway, guys, keep up the good work.
Posted by: Jesterguru | August 19, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Pau Gasol + K Bryant = 2008 final
Kwame "need hands steriod" Brown + K Bryant = 1st round exist
A Bynum + P Gasol + K Bryant = 2008-09 Champ!!!
Still need to Trade:
1. Lamar (over paid backup PF)
2. Puke (maybe high basketball "IQ" but don't know what to do with the ball)
3. Space Cadet
Who wants them anyway?
Posted by: Zen Master | August 19, 2008 at 11:24 AM
JesterGuru keep the faith this to will pass. And I second
JesterGuru, KamBrothers thanks fo all the good work you do.
Larry(Mamba24)
Posted by: Mamba24 | August 19, 2008 at 11:25 AM
8/8/08
Kobe Completes Image Transformation.
At this point in the Chinese proceedings, he stands taller than his pre Colorado Kobe stature.
It's Lebron and Kobe and the next rung is waaaay down the ladder...
and Pierce wouldn't be on it.
Posted by: Vman | August 19, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Whaddya know?
I stay away from the blog for a week in hopes that Mike T. may have talked himself to death and that there may be some new discussion about things other than Kwame, the Lakers being soft, Starlet Bryant being inferior to Paul "The God of the Universe" Pierce and even Mike T himself. But of course, it's the same old garbage. I guess that was too much to hope for.
This iis my 2 cents...
I think it's time that we collectively come to the conclusion that arguing with Mike T. (and LGCs) is like arguing with that annoying kid that responded to logical arguments with "I know you are, but what am I? So's your face! Your mom! I'm rubber and you're glue! LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING!!" The amount of evidence produced is completely inconsequential. One cannot argue with someone who is incapabale of admitting that he's wrong, so it's better to save all debates and discussions for people of the rational nature.
Let him talk to himself.
Now that that's out of my system...
Sun Yue... I don't get the excitement. One guy even said "I'd be ok with him averaging a double double." What!? We should stop the press, invade Canada and name a new state after him if he averages a double double!!! I mean, he's looked decent in the Olympics, but nothing to suggest he's ready to step in and contribute. I personally don't think he plays more than 100 minutes the whole season.
Posted by: puddle | August 19, 2008 at 11:34 AM
BK,
I'm not blaming you or AK for the recent change in tone of the blog. I think we all can assist in improving the tone of things.
I also understand that it's your responsibility to regularly put up new threads despite the fact that it's the offseason and there's not a lot going on.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 11:47 AM
"Michael T. basically left the blog when Kwame was traded and then only came back after Game 6 of the Finals to gloat."-Jon K
This is a fact. This is soft, by the way.
That said, does what Mike T says really hurt you guys?
If it does, (fill in how lame you are right here).
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | August 19, 2008 at 11:49 AM
to the kobebryantblitz....
you said Sun Yue should get an English name, how about a British name, or an American name, A name is what a person is given at birth, and they usually keep it. Why can you handle Vlad Radmanovic and Sasha Vujacic, but have to make a statement about a simple name like "Sun You". My racism radar is on alert, are you pulling your eyes back like the Spanish team, however they may have done it being naive, stupid, or internationally PC confused about racism...what's your story? Bad Chinese take out today. Well Ding Ho hasn't been around recently, so what is it??? It's like crimes reported on the news, They will say Asian gangs, but will they say White gangs, when it's a buncha caucasian kids who hang out together doing something stupid? NO....I know that, I hear it day after day, and I'm damn tired of it. Take the label off the person. If you meant no disrespect then I apologize for my rant, that is how I try to show respect. Others will read this and maybe a lightbulb will go on, out there....
Posted by: humanomaly | August 19, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Rocky :"If it does, (fill in how lame you are right here): How Lame
I am. Nobody knows How Lame I am. Larry(Mamba24)
Thanks Rocky. LOL!
Posted by: Mamba24 | August 19, 2008 at 12:05 PM
kobebryantblitz,
I just went back and glossed over some of your postings, and you obviously are intelligent. Keep up the good work, and let's look forward like I say, let's keep talk about shaq, and kwame to a minimum....I say we have a great chance if the coaches can get us there. I don't believe the Celtics will cakewalk (no Kwame joke there) to the finals, everyone guns for the champs....and injuries can play a role. The Lakers were riddled with injuries last year, while, the Celtics injuries were more of the minor tweaks and such. Their big 3 (I hate to say that, because i don't believe there are probably at least 7 or 8 other shooting guards I would favor over him) havn't had an serious injury in their careers as far as I can remember, other than Pierce in nightclubs.......
to kobebryantblitz, peace, brother....
Posted by: humanomaly | August 19, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Haha! You're a cool fella Mamba.
Seriously though, AK/BK are doing a tremendous job not allowing any particular view to dominate.
Gasol is Euro-soft. But he's a damn good basketball player and he's a 10 times improvement over Kwame. Nothing anyone says will change my mind on that. Even though I believe Kwame does have his strong points, and weak ones.
The Lakers are so close right now. Really, if Bynum is healthy and going full speed, who can beat us? This team has a chance to be dominant, like the Celtics were last year. Our only weakness is the SF spot, and we have LAMAR ODOM at that spot! That's not all that weak. Sure, I'd like to see someone who fits the position better than Lamar, but we could do much worse, and there aren't many options available right now.
Anyway..
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | August 19, 2008 at 12:28 PM
You call me out in a recent post saying I don't know what I'm talking about.
Posted by Jon K.
Sorry Jon K. It was response to both yours and Mike T's "LAKERS WILL/WILL NOT WINT IT ALL NEXT YEAR!". Frankly we don't know what will happen. I want the Lakers to win without a doubt. Heck we could have pull off another trade that could win us the title or one th at makes us lose in the finals again. We don't know. It's part of the fun of discussing the next season. Go Lakers
Hobbit,
Another apology, I don't question your quest for getting the Lakers for defense, I accidently mixed your question up with someone who just doesn't want the Lakers to succeed.
And back to our little debate hehe.
"Have you forgotten that we upgraded from
Smush to D-Fish??? Of course we played better defense
this past season. We upgraded our PG and our C pos.
However, we still gave up over 100 pts. per game and
that seems like a lot."
At a lower field goal percentage. Which is still better than last year. Plus its less than we gave up back in 2005-2006. We had a very good offense last season so it's only natural that the scoring of our opponents went up as well. And we had them shoot only 44% compared to 46% in 06-07. Why did Boston have a higher differential? Because of KG and Posey to really help the defense. And unlike Marcus Camby, KG was a well known defender than Camby. With Pau now to help defend power forwards (you don't limit Tim or KG to less than 44% shooting) And him protecting mid-range and help defense with Bynum, defense in post is great, forcing opponents to be more in perimeter shots. Of course I know D-Fish and how he's an upgrade over Smush. And no doubt both Pau and Drew are a upgrade over Kwa-may. And having Pau at the 4 is the main reason I don't want Odom to be there. Because Lamar tends to give up more points against power forwards (Stoudemire toasted him for 30+ points when Amare went to Power Forward), though his offense and rebounding is improved there. In fact in late 2005-2006 that is why Lamar was put back into power forward role, because Cook wasn't a good starter to score consistently and Lamar was, and we needed more offense other than Kobe.
"Let's agree to disagree. A quick search of
box scores against the Celtics shows an avg. 9. If Lamar
avg'd 15 & 10 phil would never have clowned him. Also,
Lamar never got 20 rebounds back to back until Pau
showed up."
1) It was against Golden State, aka a Don Nelson team. Lamar played both power forward and even center on both games because Ronny wasn't the physical force Bynum is. And logged in tons of minutes.
and 2) Pau was injured at the time. Had Pau been there Lamar wouldn't have gotten 20+ rebounds for 2 games.
and 3) Average of 9 points avg against the Celtics? Bynum had 6 ppg!
"I disagree. Shaq is actually more skilled at playing the low
post. Amare is *plenty* strong enough against the
Duncan post up. He's not skilled enough. Consider that
KG doesn't have much of a problem with Duncan and
he's more slender than Amare."
Shaq was brought in for defense in the low post and for Amare to get more offense in the Power Forward slot. Jeff Van Gundy even said in the playoffs and if you wish I have the link posted later. that by not having Shaq on the floor, "you weaken yourself to a Duncan post up, whereas you got stronger on offense, you got weaker on defense". You even said so yourself, Amare is no center even though he can score in the inside. His lack of effective post defense is what Steve Kerr was concerned and he got Shaq to defend centers like Bynum, Yao, and Dwight Howard. Why does KG is better at guarding Duncan? Unlike Amare, Garnett is a way better defender than Stoudewhiner. There is a reason why he got defensive player of the year.
"Let's agree to disagree. Perhaps you
should do a search for quotes from Brian Shaw and Phil
Jackson. Phil told him to carry the team. Chris Mihm was
the starting C and was good to mediocre. He got hurt
and Kwame stepped in. The team's offensive philosophy
changed once they hit the playoffs. Instead of Kobe
shooting so much, they passed. That's how they went up
3-1 over phx before crumbling."
Of course, that's the quotes I used to defend Kobe from people who said he was a ball hog! And passing is what Kobe had to win in the playoffs and this surprised the Suns who always had experienced him shooting. And they still overachieved and failed at the same time. The Suns had no Amare or any big man for that matter (their center was Boris Diaw!) and even Kwa-may had some good numbers. Next year, Amare back in the lineup and the Lakers got pounded. That's why in 06 Playoffs they overachieved and by not winning they failed lol.
"he averaged those numbers against a team
that didn't know how to SPELL "defense" let alone play
defense. They had no true Center and Amare was
coming off of microfracture knee surgery wasn't he?
7 seconds or less, remember? It is not that he
is not tough. It is that he does not have a killer instinct. He
is actually a *NICE* guy."
If anything, Lamar was going against Shawn Marion, a really good defender and underrated one as well. Amare had well recovered since his microfracture surgery and torched the Lakers for 24.2 ppg in that series and held Kwa-may Brown to less than 8 points a game when the previous year Kwa-may achieved 12.6 ppg. And they held us to 98 ppg for that series. I have read 07 seconds or less myself. Having those kind of numbers against Shawn Marion is really good. Dunno what can prove otherwise, maybe 30 points oh yea, Lamar did that as well in Game 5, the only other Laker to score well besides Kobe.
"As I posted before, the overwhelming
reasons for Lamar at the SF, as posted on this blog,
are offensive in nature. Defense wins championships.
My desire for Ariza at the 3 are purely defensive.
My disdain for Lamar at the 2 or 3 are due to his lack
of killer instinct, wishy-washyness, and a lack of
commitment to defense. i.e. he isn't *known* for it
whereas Ariza was brought in for his defense."
Ariza's defense is solid no doubt plus he was brought here as an upgrade over Mo Evans. But Ariza's overall defense hasn't impressed me (though I love his hustle). He got torched by Paul Pierce for 33 points. Would Lamar do any better? I cannot say really.
"I would like to see Ariza get a run at SF before switching to a slower individual who is playing out of his natural position."
Ariza will get minutes no doubt, he will have his chance on the court to prove it, just like Bynum did this year. He will have to improve his offense nevertheless to earn a starting rotation. Even Bruce Bowen can at least hit a jump shot! (Though it puzzles me that Bowen is such a good 3 point shooter yet sucks at the free throw line.)
"We disagree. Sasha has shown more heart and more
improvement over 3 years than Lamar has in terms of
defense. Sasha is also quicker. Sasha is also hungrier
to win. His quote about wanting to be the best shooter
in the NBA perfectly details the attitude I'm talking about.
He is "DRIVEN"."
Sasha hasn't done anything until last year. (Props to Faith for that!). In fact he wouldn't have even gotten in the rotation until Evans got traded. And Sasha was no defender until last year as well, Mo Evans was eating his minutes back in 06-07 because Evans was better at defending as well as better offensively. And even then he was a great shooter off the bench, something we will lack if he is promoted to starting rotation. And who else will be the target of Jordan's penetration? And if he is driven shouldn't he have averaged more points off the bench? I guess 39.9% shooting is superior to Lamar's 49.1% in the playoffs. If it is, then my mistake then.
"Lamar is a PF and playing him out of position is asking for trouble. Versatility for the sake of versatility is not a good thing."
Lamar is a small forward, he has said it and Phil Jackson reinforces that by having him play small forward. PJ had him doing that back in 2005-2006, and tried it again earlier in 2007-2008. Why did Lamar go back to playing power forward? Because no one else could play it effectively as he could offensively and rebounding wise and even defensively wise though he's weaker defensively there than he is at small forward. The Lakers didn't get Pau to play center.
"Kobe can not play the 2 & the 3 at the same
time. I'm looking for someone to take the other spot. You
have not demonstrated that Lamar is the one to take the
other spot from a defense point of view. You also
haven't seen his defense for the coming year. You also
haven't addressed that Sasha's game is improving year
over year and Lamar's is not."
Lamar's game has improved, will it be 20-20? Of course not! Can he defend? He did decent against Dirk and while he's no shut down defender, his defense is good plus he has a really long wingspan which is a big advantage to defending. Sasha improved his jumper, his 3 point shooting and some of his defense. He has not shown that he can be more than streaky when it comes to shooting plus shooting guards who penetrate still get by him. I really like Sasha and I don't want to diss him but he still has a long way to go and if he averages like 12 ppg off the bench and shoot around 47% FG and at least 42% from 3 point territory, and his defense keeps on improving, then I will admit Sasha is a better fit at the 2 even though having him on the bench provides more 3 point shooting off the bench.
"One could argue that NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER is an offensive philosophy not a defensive philosophy. Particularly sinceit happens when we're on offense."
The Triangle offense is made of careful cuts and passing. Should it be disrupted and a turnover is made then there is very little chance to recover compared to other defenses in transition, particularly fast break ones like Phoenix and Golden State where there are more 3 point shooters and can recover much faster in transition, to defend against. "Defense wins championships". Here's another one "A good offense is a good defense as well". By not turning the ball over at least if a shot is being made the defense still has to stay and try to rebound the ball while there is at least 2 Laker defenders already on the other side to prevent a fast break and help other Laker defenders come back in time.
Do we need to improve our overall defense? Err any defense could always be improved so yes. But let me say another thing Hobbit. The Bench has no defenders beyond Sasha and Trevor. We already have Kobe as a defender in the starting lineup and Pau and Drew will be a deterance similar to Robinson and Duncan though they will not be as good as Robinson and Duncan defensively. Having Sasha and Trevor will help the defense of the bench since they are in my opinion, a mini version of the Phoenix Suns offense and that's where our defense was bad. Our starting lineup is ok already, both defensively and offensively. Our bench is mostly offense. Having Trevor and Sasha will improve the bench mobs defense and give them easier times to score since they won't be facing against starters usually.
Lamar isn't a lock down defender. I admit to that. Is he better than Sasha and Trevor offensively? Yes. But Lamar is still a decent defender and is good offensively while Sasha and Trevor will help with the bench mob's defense, which I think was the biggest problem defensively wise.
That's my two cents, again Jon K., my apologies.
Posted by: thekobebyrantblitz | August 19, 2008 at 12:40 PM
AK,
"Also, I understand the point you're trying to make in regards to articles written about LBJ being the best, but from a pure logistics standpoint, it's basically impossible to write an article about a player being the best without making some kind of comparison to other players. Or at the very least, the guy who'd be naturally considered the next best player. That's just writing 101. In either case, Kobe is bound to pop up. I realize why that might annoy some Laker/Kobe fans, but there's really no way around it for this kind of analysis. "
Trust the hater in you to find a perfectly logical reason for dissing Kobe. And umm yea I noticed a post on here today lamenting the fact that the dude said top 25 instead of top 10 so I guess some folks do take stuff like that personally. Then again I guess the kobite in me just sees top 25 and reads it as that means he could be in the top 2 right, like I mean pierce wasn't explicit right ... like if he'd said kobe's top 25 but not top 20 then I'd start getting pissed ... but for now it's just the same as Jordan being in top 50 greatest nba players ... that don't mean he wasn't the best (up until kobe showed up in town though)
Sigh trolls everywhere, haters everywhere, I'm bored out of my mind at work, and frankly speaking just typing to kill boredom.
I'm ok with Paul Pierce thinking he's the best player in the league (btw am I the only one that wondered what KG thought about that comment? I already know Ray's upset) since they won the championship, as far as I'm concerned it's a temporary state of mind that will be corrected next june.
Mamba24,
You d*mn right a new sheriff is in town, I got my purple and gold biceps flexed. I laugh in the face of hateration these days. I say we got gasol and I told the haters kobe's got a team now, just watch what he does to you with it. They watched in disbelief as we made it to the finals then like mikey t they came out the woodwork to tell me I told you so. I'm like how ridiculous is this, you're celebrating the fact that you're watching the birth of a laker dynasty and you don't even know it. I mean unless I here Bynum's knee ain't recovered (and that in itself has an 80 million dollar silver lining, hey wade is a free agent next year i think) please tell me "who want stop us" ... who want bully us on the boards ... dem don forget what bynum was doing on the glass before he got hurt ... dem don forget what our boy kobe said not of gasol but of Bynum "he's the player I've been praying for" ... so to all the haters and trolls out there ... can y'all hear purple and gold screaming "BRING IT!!!"
Lastly is it g*y of me to say I miss smush parker's smile? Oh how I love all things lakers.
Posted by: Taliq | August 19, 2008 at 12:49 PM
humanomaly,
No racism in no way to Sun Yue lol. I've got many Chinese/Taiwanese friends. They all have an American/English name like Tom or Sarah or Julie. Even when I visit China most of my contacts there have English names though I prefer to call them by their names in Hanzi out of respect. Maybe Sun Yue does have a name in English, we dunno. If he doesn't so be it, more power to him. To me, I just don't like it when people mis pronounce a name entirely (like they did to Brett Favre's name in the draft, the guy said his name "Favor"). And for Sun Yue it really bugs me when people say "Sun" instead of the more correct "Soon". Instead of forcing people to say it right, he could be given an English name like James or Jason or even Kobe LOL joking and still be true to Sun Yue. I don't mean any disrespect to Sun Yue, I really like the guy and his potential and I haven't been excited over an Asian prospect in the NBA (I'm already having him better than Yi Jianlian, rookie wise). Just hoping maybe he could get an name people won't tend to mis pronounce.
Have a nice day!
Posted by: thekobebyrantblitz | August 19, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Jon k.
"The only problem is that the spirit in which it is said. Michael T. basically left the blog when Kwame was traded and then only came back after Game 6 of the Finals to gloat. "
And why then should we get madd at premature gloating. I mean when we were rolling with kwame and smush in the starting line up that's when the haters comments hurt cuz we all knew we needed a miracle from #24 pretty much every single night in order to prove the haters wrong.
But with Gasol, Bynum, Odom (y'all must be crazy for hating on odom, yes he makes knuckle head plays at times but before sasha was drilling game 3s as opposed to practice 3s, before gasol showed up in town, before bynum learnt what offseason workout meant, before fish came back home, who had #24's back, who else bled purple and gold? ... go on say it ... I dare you to say luke)
Posted by: Taliq | August 19, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Jon K.
First, thanks for the response, I appreciate it.
Second, I think the Laker youth definitely contributed to the losses, particularly the inability to execute the offense. To be honest, I thought the trap was set in the days before the Finals started -- I wanted the Lakers to be the underdogs, with that mentality. Celtics had been pre-season favorites, Lakers a big surprise, etc, etc. Then, come out with that chip on their shoulder. Instead, it went the other way and, at least to me, there were times when the Lakers could not respond mentally.
So, I think I agree with you, but I'm not sure any one thing can ever be pinpointed. Not a very exciting point of view for an internet forum, though!
Posted by: teamn | August 19, 2008 at 01:31 PM
have we confirmed that Team USA will be on the USA channel at 5:00 AM tomorrow?
8/20: 8:00 am (ET) Basketball Men's Basketball Quarterfinal - Game 4: United States vs Australia
or are they going to pull a stunt and show it later on channel 4?
Posted by: Kwaminus I can teach you, but I have to charge Brownicus | August 19, 2008 at 01:41 PM
Kwaminus I can teach you, but I have to charge Brownicus,
Why do I love the Lakers?
1. I'm from Los Angeles and one of the few things that unites Los Angelenans is the Lakers.
2. Grew up listening to Chick Hearn on the radio.
3. Purple and Gold looks great together.
4. Magic Johnson
5. Showtime
6. Kareem's Skyhook
7. All the Championships. All the good memories.
8. Derek Fisher 0.4
9. Because I hate the Celtics.
10. Robert Horry's game winning shots, particularly Game 4 2002 over the Kings.
11. All the fourth quarter comebacks.
12. Kobe Bryant.
13. Mike Penberthy
14. Mark Madsen
15. Ronny Turiaf
16. Kurt Rambis
17. Michael Cooper
18. James Worthy
19. Vlade Divac
20. AC Green
21. Shaquille O'Neal
22. Dr. Jerry Buss
23. Jeannie Buss
24. Jim Cleammons
25. Brian Shaw
26. Sasha Vujacic
27. Byron Scott
28. I love rooting for the good guys.
29. Classy organization
30. Hot cheerleaders
31. Love watching Jack Nicholson on the sidelines
32. Phil Jackson
33. NBA Championship 2009
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 01:44 PM
Taliq,
I don't get mad at Michael Teniente anymore. I generally ignore him since he has so little credibility; however, I respect that he occasionally makes intelligent observations.
Regarding, Lamar Odom, I don't hate on him. Not at all. You said it right "he occasionally makes knucklehead plays." Yes, he sure does. But he shined as a third option and I think he'll shine even more as a fourth option. We have yet to see the best of Lamar Odom and I'm confident that we will.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 01:47 PM
Heh heh I didn't finish my last post ... basically all Im trying to say is I'm happy with the team we've got and at the very least their reward for making the finals should be the opportunity to play together and win it all this coming season
Ooo it feels good to be a laker fan ... and allow me to say I'm really looking forward to both our games against the celtics next season ... I know it's just the regular season but I want us to inflict as much pain as we possibly can on them ... Doc Rivers, you got lucky yo ... I'm calling you out, I think you suck as a coach, and I dont think you'll be that lucky next year, matter of fact I want us to flog your team during the regular season just because I dont think you can get your team back to the finals so the regular season is the only shot we'll have at payback and trust me we will gladly take it ... I aint scared of no team, we flogged the west last season and we'll do it again ... in bynum's knee we trust :)
Posted by: Taliq | August 19, 2008 at 01:50 PM
teamn,
"To be honest, I thought the trap was set in the days before the Finals started -- I wanted the Lakers to be the underdogs, with that mentality. Celtics had been pre-season favorites, Lakers a big surprise, etc, etc. Then, come out with that chip on their shoulder. Instead, it went the other way and, at least to me, there were times when the Lakers could not respond mentally."
That's a good point. I think you're on to something. I think we thought it was going to be too easy.
If I'm correct, I remember Kobe shouting to his teammates before Game One, "We are the better team! We can beat this team today, tomorrow, any day!" Probably not the best pep-talk in hindsight.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 01:59 PM
Jon K.
"We have yet to see the best of Lamar Odom and I'm confident that we will."
I'll raise you on that one and say: we've yet to see the best of the los angeles lakers and I'm confident that we will.
Big baby Bynum, how's ya knee doing? We've got 80 million reasons for you to make sure it feels great!! I repeat to all haters and trolls, pick ya team and bring it, we ain't scared of none of y'all.
Posted by: Taliq | August 19, 2008 at 02:01 PM
Jon. K,
"That's a good point. I think you're on to something. I think we thought it was going to be too easy.
If I'm correct, I remember Kobe shouting to his teammates before Game One, "We are the better team! We can beat this team today, tomorrow, any day!" Probably not the best pep-talk in hindsight."
What you aint hear mamba24 say there's a new sherif in town. Any negative remark about Kobe earns you jail time yo. I dont think the laker squad underestimated the celtics in anyway whatsoever, however I think the media was highly guilty of this. I kept telling my friends defense wins championship so why's everyone so keen on betting against the best defensive team in the regular season and post season, never mind the fact they've got 3 all stars and won the regular season easily. Having said that I wouldn't even count it as "oh that motivated the celtics" because they'd been motivated from day 1, the big 3 said it was win it all or failure right from the get go and it showed in their play through out the season. To me the celtics beat us for 3 reasons
i. We missed bynum's presence on the glass (yes we made it to the finals without him but y'all dont think boston watched em tapes and figured out how to counter our bynum compensation tactics on the boards?)
ii. is it just me or did the 2 game 7 series somehow seem to give them more playoff confidence/experience than us?
iii. Their crowd ... nothing against you la folk but real talk the boston garden made me wish the lakers were a new york or chicago team ... we'd definately have brought the building down with noise after all that raucous the boson fans made ... to me that was hands down the loudest arena we played against in the playoffs ... just like you see tip ya hat to a great play by an opponent, i gotta tip my hat off to that celtic crowd, that's how ya tell ya team we love ya ... darn it that crowd gives me goosebumps just thinking about it ... so the next time anyone of y'all attend a laker playoff game, scream ya lungs out and then scream some more and if anyone asks you to keep quiet tell them you wont stop until jack nicholson starts screamin his lungs out too ... then again maybe the water in boston was just spiked, i mean really my ears are ringing just from remembering how loud they were
Posted by: Taliq | August 19, 2008 at 02:16 PM
Taliq,
One thing that sucks about the Lakers being in the NBA Finals is that there aren't any Lakers fans at the game (practically speaking). The only people who can afford tickets are celebrities asking each other "Which one is Vladimir Radmonovich?"
Earlier in the playoffs? Loud Lakers fans.
NBA Finals? Quite L.A. celebrities and illuminati who have no idea what to do if we fall behind in the game.
I hate that.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 03:41 PM
That something PJ said in the press conference after game 6. He said that "we" need to get some guys in here who can't get pushed around and that they needed to play a "different" brand of basketball.
The Lakers are going to try to convert to a defensive philosophy next year. There's no way they're going to try to score 108 pts per game next season.
mike t.
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | August 18, 2008 at 04:51 PM
==========================================
The problem with your view here is that you forget who PJ is.
He is an egotistical stubborn fool who refuses to adjust.
He throws his team under the bus when his coaching and philosophies cost us the Championship.
I don't believe a thing PJ says until I actually see what he does rather than what he says.
He has had teams worthy and capable to win it all but failed them by his worn out zen philosophy.
Bring on Byron Scott or Coach K and you will see us win.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | August 19, 2008 at 05:37 PM
thekobebyrantblitz,
Here's what I don't get...
You call me out in a recent post saying I don't know what I'm talking about.
While you're screaming about how we need to improve our defense, especially on our bench.
But a couple threads ago you criticized me for suggesting that if we pick up additional players for the bench that they should be defensive-orientated players.
You're seeming more like a person who likes to argue than someone who is actually a Lakers fan.
In other words... a blowhard and a jerk.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 19, 2008 at 08:23 AM
===========================
Jon K
I pretty much agree with you since last year we brought in defensive bench players and PJ refused to use them. Ira Newble and DJ. The main excuse was they would slow the offense but I think that is bs.
It is in the coaching philosophy for offense over defense as to why we lost ? Also don't forget the bets too.
Also I disagree on the insults even if you disagree. Hurl back if hurled at you is what I believe but have to say have not kept up with your arguments against each other so don't know who threw the first insult.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | August 19, 2008 at 06:19 PM
If we were bostonian's we would probably still be trying to choke each other's fat necks. All's cool in coolsville, except that it's like 90-100 every day here in socal...
Thanks for the followup, Sun will probably be pronounced "sun" instead of "soon", but if he doesn't have any issues with it maybe we all shouldn't...I think we have a great team, so versatile, international, intelligent,....that happened as soon as the GIANT (The Greatest Interviewee of all time) otherswise known as the Shiq departed, that dude was so disrespectful and unprofessional in his interviews, Then he would go cry when over less endorsements than guards/forward....no it was no endorsements for mumbling idiots....
I'm gonna review my Tex Winter Triangle Offense book, and see if 1, 2 and 3 are really interchangeable....I mean there's been so much talk about Odom can't shoot, Hey, if he can sneak in and still get over 10 boards from a 1 or 2 position, I think that would be something special....We all know Kobe wants to play the 3 and defend the best at the end of games, or need be....I relish the thought that we have small tough gurards in Fisher and Farmar, and we have tall, versatile guards in Odom, Sasha, and Kobe...and then there is Sun...who I feel has been held back in the Chinese National program, they don't want Pete Maravich, they want a guy to feed to Yao and Yi, and I think Yi is a pretty damn good player, he's got the package and I think he's got the tough attitude, maybe we can get him to kick Paul Pierce's ass when he sobers up....
If he did say that Kobe is one of the top 25 players of all time that is obviously an insult, because people everywhere else have been waiting for him to become as good as MJ and that would be the top 1, in some people's opinion...that's just another example of Pierce being an ass, and before it's all done, I want someone to knock Ray Allen into the 5th row....I say this year, Sasha stops acting when he's smashed, and I hope he grows up and becomes our Bruce Bowen...maybe he needs to slow down a tad, because he moves so much, and with his hair, he attracts alot of attention...maybe it's time to mature.
This will be the first year of many. Despite what LGC (Let's go to casinos!!!!) may ooze (he doesn't think, that's obvious, so I guess what ends up in these blogs, leak out of him....not a pretty sight....I bet.
Posted by: humanomaly | August 20, 2008 at 01:22 AM
I agree with Faith...I've never found the term 'redeem team' cheesy and Ive normally got a pretty good nose for cheese.No doubt some guy will come out with an article saying Kobe is just upset they didnt call it the kobebean team
What other names could their be ?
'The good scene team'?
'The keen team'?
'The not only gold on the beam team'?
and my personal favourite -'the Team' team,
I guess that team with Larry johnson and Kemp called be called 'The mean team' and the 2004 Athens Olympic team 'The lean team'?
AK sir...
I think the 2004 team would have been struggling to win anyway.Not saying they couldnt have - but a lot of this teams work starts with strong D in the backcourt.
Marbury and Iverson would never have given you that and the personel in general just wasnt as strong by any stretch...Dont forget that USA basketball was happy with the guys attitude at the word champs in '05 but they still lost to Greece and that was with lebron and co actually playing...sure they hadnt had three years together but it does indicate that it was never going to be easy and the Athens loss wasn't an aberation regardless of attitude and coaching.
...Already people are underestimating how good this team actually is in terms of sheer talent level and are talking about the three year plan as being the reason for their success...while I'm sure it is important I think with a decent coach, an attitude and culture tweak and the quality of personel in the olympic team and they would've probably cleaned everyone up without a three year plan.
I'd hate for the USA to start thinking they can just have a three year plan and it will happen (like they formerly thought they could send any old NBA player) becasue it wont....they need to do what every other country does and have the best players want to compete and then select them.T
he genius of Colangelo and co is in actually changing the culture in the NBA guys to make them want to play period....understanding patriotism and respecting the opposition while you are preparing is one thing.. so is behaving with class but USA basketball won the battle when they got all the top notch players to sign on.
Posted by: Kiwi | August 21, 2008 at 09:51 AM
Re Paul pierce...I never took offence as a Kobe fan.I took offence as a someone who detests unfounded arrogance and would have to solidly disagree with anyone who said Pierce was the best player...but when it comes from Paul himself it makes it worse.If Kobe at any point said he was the best player (even if he is) I would find that a bit rank too...but unfounded arrogance in any form is the worst!
Anyway as someone mentioned above it bound to rankle with the other lads and hopefully its the beginning of the end as far as the celtics chemistry is concerned...
Posted by: Kiwi | August 21, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Back to Pierce and the Celtics....
Regarding Celtic chemistry....I'm going to attribute some of it to (no major injuries.....see Lakers for example, down a starting center, no not Bynum, Mihm...go laugh, but I say that to stress the fact that our team at various times was plugging holes....obviously Bynum is our future, but Mihm is a good player as well, maybe not all-star caliber, but a contributor....I liked his game watching him play in person, I always thought he was mobile for a 7 footer, had a go to shot, a block here and there, and I saw toughness in his demeanor. I saw him pointing out to the younglings (even though he was still new to the system, with just a year under his belt) their mistakes on the court, in a strong tone, but instructive. The Celtics, well everyone handed them the trophy as soon as 1+1+1 equaled 3. I've seen what I call the "first pass effect", not the one where your liver or other organs remove, or change a drug before it enters your blood stream), I'm talking about how, when a player (in this case an entire team), can sometimes experiences a fair amount of success the first time around, it may be one time, it may be one season, before the opponent players and teams figure them out and then they come back to Earth. Hopefully, if PJ lets Sun play, he can experience some early success. Every team out there, is going to analyze the Celtics to be like them, or to have success against them. They've had their moment in the spotlight, and may they fall back to earth like a a space rock hitting the Earth. May their descent be an uglier fall from grace than the Heat, after they won. They won because of the right team, at the right time, under the right system. Dammit, the Lakers had a great system and showed class in losing. Get in the elevator and hit the up button. It won't matter, we're going up, pick a floor any floor. The Celtics, well, they'll be taking the stairwell down. We'll see them again, but I'll be dead by then.
Posted by: Humanamoly | August 24, 2008 at 02:06 AM