Ronny the Warrior
And we mean that literally. ESPN.com is reporting that the Lakers will not match the four-year, $17-million offer sheet Ronny Turiaf signed with Golden State, meaning he will officially become a Warrior. No official confirmation from El Segundo, but since the report essentially confirms what most have said would happen over the course of the week, I have no reason to question the accuracy. It's a disappointment, for sure, as Turiaf was about as well loved (deservedly so) as a Laker can be, but it's hardly a surprise, either. Given where he's projected to fit in the current rotation, that's a lot of scratch for the Lakers to pony up, especially with the Sasha Vujacic situation yet to play out.
As for Turiaf, he'll almost assuredly get more playing time up in the great north than he would have in L.A., though obviously it's a step down in terms of postseason hopes. I certainly can't begrudge him for accepting the offer. Best of luck from Lakers Blog.
BK
M T,
"that would lead to the Lakers being crushed by the Celtics in the finals."
That's odd. I remember you saying that the Lakers wouldn't make it past the second round.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 19, 2008 at 09:58 PM
Yup, it's a full moon out.
Posted by: dave m | July 19, 2008 at 10:08 PM
giantsquid,
>>>And what's with mentioning Luke? Are you saying
>>>we have to start Luke to outscore opponents?
Not necessarily. But he was on the most effective 5-man lineup the
Lakers put on the floor last season. Perhaps if he did start,
the Lakers would do better than if Ariza or Rad started. Last
season, that was the statistical fact.
As to whether it would be better to start Walton vs Odom,
that's an unresolved issue, since Odom was in all the starting
lineups that involved having Luke in the lineup or not having
Luke in the lineup.
>>>That was a very strange post.
You claimed that PER is not a good measure of how good a player
is, and in fact you claimed that fans can tell who's a good player
and who isn't. Mike T thinks that Kwame Brown is better than
Bynum. Just a Laker Fan thinks that Bynum is better than Dwight
Howard. I happen to disagree with both of those assessments,
but that's just my personal opinion (btw, PER does support my
personal opinions in those two cases).
I was merely pointing out that your personal judgement of which of
two players is better is arbitrary and probably more inaccurate
than PER. But I agreed with you that PER isn't perfect.
You forced my hand. The one statistic that doesn't lie is how
well you outscore your opponents. That's how you win games.
Do you agree?
And I was merely pointing out the best lineup that the Lakers
put on the floor in terms of outscoring their opponents last season.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 19, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Sop who do we think the Lakers will add? I think it's risky messing with a roster that just went to the finals in spite of not having their starting center.
Look to sign Sasha , and maybe another big body and go into the season seeing how the triple towers work. Lamar desperately needs a jump shot and he has not proven to improve his game in the offseason, but rather rely on his talent and his left hand. I do not think Lamar gets any better.
That being said, I would like to see the lakers pick up someone who can regularly hit the 15/20 foot jump shot and play D, I'm not sure Artest is the answer either.
Mitch will make or break this team by what he does this year.
Posted by: BeverlyHills_Bernie | July 19, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Mike T. is a megalomaniac. He believes he much more important than he actually is. Please, ignore his posts. The following is from last year, for your consideration.
REPOST from June 2007:
********************************************
****************************************
* ATTENTION BLOGGERS : TODAY IS DEDICATED TO MIKE TENIENTE *
********************************************
****************************************
Todays News: ALL MIKE T. ALL THE TIME: AND NOW MIKE TS GREATEST HITS
(10) BILL PLASCHKE!, I can't speak for everyone but there hundreds of thousands reasons why people are loyal to Kobe Bryant. It's simple: We're not white. To be completely honest: I don't believe a thing white reporters have to say. Bill Plaschke insults my intelligence. Word around the league is that nobody want to come to Los Angeles and play for Phil Jackson. They're saying without
Kobe Bryant why would we want to go to Los Angeles? And when it's all said and done the White media is going to blame us
9. Say what you will BUT NOBODY AROUND THE LEAGUE WANT TO PLAY FOR PHIL JACKSON. Watch how many free agents that can make a difference we sign this year. NONE! They're not coming to Los Angeles. If Kobe Bryant isn't happy you think they're
coming around? HELL NO! Are you so lost as to think that players around the league haven't heard the whispers about what it's like playing for Phil Jackson these days? Come on man. Mike Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 10:20 AM
8 . If people are going to put Kobe Bryant to the fire then you better put Phil Jackson right next to his ass, too. If Kobe is to blame Phil Jackson even more. Mike Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 10:31 AM
7. The idea that they're aren't whisper out there. Hell they're yelling it at the mountain tops...STARTING WITH KOBE BRYANT DEMANDING A TRADE! Get real. Mike Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 10:35 AM
6. Hell, all I need is for Lamar Odom to call his N.Y. friends to spread the word. Come to Los Angeles and Phil Jackson is going to chew you up through the white media. Not Lamar? Well, then Kobe can make a few calls. Not Kobe? Well, then Kwame...Andrew.
...Mo Evans. Word is going to spread because one way or the other Phil Jackson is out of here. Mike Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 11:15 AM
5. PhxLkrFan, I don't give a damn what you say. No free agents are going to sign with the Lakers. Not any that are any good. NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY FOR PHIL JACKSON. And if word isn't already out believe by the time thing is all over it will be. Mike Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 10:33 AM
4. Lamar, do yourself a favor. Call Artest and Marbury and get them to spread the word. Los Angeles is no place to be playing as long as Phil Jackson is the coach. Tell them what the white media will do to them if they come to Los Angeles. Kobe, Lamar, Kwame, Bynum, Get on the damn phone and start spreading the word of what it's like to be playing for Phil Jackson and in front
of the white media in Los Angeles. , Year after year the white media is always finding ways to trash you guys. This is your opportunity to strike back. Get on the phone and call all of your NBA friends and tell them what it's like to play for Phil Jackson and the white media in Los Angeles. Oh wait a minute. They already made those phone calls from the mid season point that's why the Lakers won't be able to sign any free agents this season. Kobe, Lamar, Kwame, Bynum, and Evans are saying: Damn mike t. you're on the late freight. That was
done a long time ago LAMAR, KWAME, BYNUM, EVANS, If you guys had any type of dignity for your race, you'll get the hell out of here as soon as you can. We'll teach this MFer to F with us. Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 11:18 AM
3. The Knicks have more integrity than the Lakers do right now. You know why? Because Larry Brown did what Phil Jackson did this year and the Knicks owner fired his ass. Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 11:42 AM
(2) . MFers, you want to play hardball? Lets play hardball. By the time I'm done there will be no Superstars coming to Los Angeles. . I told you I was going to punk your asses Mike Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 10:41 AM
*****************************(****** AND NOW THE NUMBER ONE MIKE T. SAYING OF ALL TIME *********************************************
*********
(1) IM MIKE T. MFer! WHO ARE YOU? DO PEOPLE COME ON THIS BLOG TO READ ANDREW WHO? MIKE T. HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE HEARD. AND THATS SOMETHING YOU CANT SAY ABOUT YOURSELF Posted by: Michael Teniente | June 20, 2007 at 02:34 PM
Please ignore Mike T.
The only thing Kwame Brown is good for is throwing cakes and crappy parties.
Posted by: Anthony "Pig Bill" Miller | July 19, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Mike "the marshmellow fellow" Teniente has a nice ring to it or How about Mike "Tidy Whitiee" Teniente?
Hard to see anyone who loves Kwame so much be anything other than a "briefs" guy. (jk)
Peace
BHB
Posted by: BeverlyHills_Bernie | July 19, 2008 at 10:33 PM
AK/BK,
You guys have to talk to your IT guys and hope they can find a way to add an ignore option for certain posters. I can't stand reading Mike's posts anymore.
Jon K,
I like reading your posts, but I hope you're happy that Mike came back. You said he has passion, but it's clear the only thing he has a true passion for is reveling in a Lakers loss that he feels somehow validates Kwame Brown.
Posted by: Xodus | July 19, 2008 at 10:56 PM
The insults are flying thick and fast....
Laker Tom...Common sense will prevail...Getting Kwame back would be like trading in a brand new Merc for a used cab with 500,000 miles on the clock.....
Mike T ...If the Lakers had taken the finals what would you have done...Oh wait ..You already knew didnt you?..
My 12 year old cousins act like that...To come back after game 6 would have been the most amazing feeling for you i bet..Its one thing to make sense but its another thing to beat your own drum...I said this and i said that...
Which NBA front office do you work for again?.Please remind us all so we can pat you on the back...
Every body is entitled to have an opinion on this site but the self love is a little creepy...
Gunner......No Comment....................................................
You guys should hang out
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 20, 2008 at 12:13 AM
I guess you people haven't been reading what most of the papers are saying about Gasol. SOFT!
I didn't have to watch to know that. That was common knowledge from his time in Memphis. The Memphis fans were bellyaching about how Gasol couldn't guard anyone.
The guy is straight marshmellow. So sooooft! Heck he even looks like one of tender gazelles.
is it Pau Gasol
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26810825@N04/2518574
007/ (You honestly think this skinny guy isn't going to be pushed around?)
Or Pau Gazelle?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/helenapugsley/1463417213/
mike t.
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | July 20, 2008 at 12:14 AM
LTLF
I'm think statistical analysis of team play, such as best 5 man rotations, is helpful. Statistical analysis of individual players is much more difficult. Setting a great screen, playing good help defense etc doesn't show up in those stats. Kobe gets doubled even tripled. That will lead to an open shot but most likely off the second pass so Kobe gets no credit for an assist. Etc. Ginobilli, who is ranked first among SGs is very good, but he's no where near as good as Kobe. I'm just saying it's difficult to clearly determine a player's impact on the game based solely on statistics. There are anomalies in JH's rankings that stick out like sore thumbs.
There was such a wide gap between the play of Kwame and Bynum I doubt any kind of analysis, statistical or otherwise, would indicate that Kwame is the better player. I also think Drew is not quite as good as Dwight, but he hasn't really had much opportunity to develop. He could be the better player very soon. Or not.
Posted by: giantsquid | July 20, 2008 at 12:53 AM
A beautiful summer Saturday afternoon and the blog squad spent it battlin' for community rule mid offseason.
Incredible stuff for a late night read.
After multiple threads of this, you'd think email, man to man, would be the preferable format for creative insult slinging.
Glad that impulse was resisted.
Posted by: Vman | July 20, 2008 at 01:07 AM
Ex
Let me start out by stating that I'm only responding to what others are posting. I've already posted more than once that I don't think it's a good idea to bring Kwame back to L.A.
Phil's comment on Kwame was from December 16, 2006
This next comment caught me by surprise since I'd never read anything in which Tex said anything remotely positive about Kwame.
Feb. 20th 2007
http://tinyurl.com/577vlb
The defensive woes, on the other hand, can be tied to two things: 1) Kwame Brown’s absence, also due to injury, in the post (“Peope don’t realize how important he is to us,” Winter says of Brown)
Posted by: giantsquid | July 20, 2008 at 01:27 AM
Mike T
For all the good and bad about Kwame and Gasol and the impressive detail you include in your posts.Lets keep it simple...
Are you saying the Lakers would have been better off having never made the Gasol trade.
If everything else stayed the same including Bynums injury and Kwame Brown was starting at centre for the lakers instead of Pau Gasol the team would have won two more playoff games.Is that correct?
Posted by: Kiwi | July 20, 2008 at 03:42 AM
No thanks on Ben Wallace. He really didn't deserve more than one All-Star appearance. Even one was pushing it. He's started getting injured along with being extra cranky. Not a fan. Older now too, what like 34/35?
Posted by: Benjamin | July 20, 2008 at 05:40 AM
Xodus,
Start at the bottom: that way you see who wrote something before read it. Saves a lot of wasted time.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 20, 2008 at 07:13 AM
Mike T, Laker Tom, and a few others-
Yesterday I asked for people to stop with the personal attacks back and forth, the name calling, use of inappropriate language or tone, etc. To some extent, it helped, but in some cases, apparently it didn't. I've held some of your comments from publishing, because I feel they're not constructive in the attempt to keep the debate focused on basketball.
This is not third grade, I'm not interested in "who started it." Everyone needs to act like an adult.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 20, 2008 at 09:37 AM
giantsquid,
Thanks for the Roland Lazenby article.
A big part of me is saying, "Well, if Phil Jackson really likes Kwame Brown, then by all means, bring him back!"
And then the sane part of me is screaming, "NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"
Life is weird.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 09:50 AM
Xodus/Pig/giantsquid,
Michael Teniente is an intelligent man, unfortunately he is also a meglomaniac who is a bigot against white people.
He's an emotional child who cannot admit when he is wrong.
That much said, his madness occasionally brings in interesting perspectives on things.
The key with Michael Teniente is keeping in mind that he's a bit crazy and a bigot. If you read his posts in that context, there's nothing to get truly upset about. He's an intelligent, emotional child with a tremendous ego who is also a bigot.
That's just the way it is.
I mean, the reason why we are STILL passionately discussing whether or not Kwame Brown should return to the Lakers is because Michael Teniente has personally posted appoximately 2000 posts extolling the virtues of Kwame Brown and the idiocy of any one who would rather have Chris Mihm, Ronny Turiaf, or Andrew Bynum play center.
So much posting on a singular subject leaves a mark in this blogmunity.
There's only one Michael Teniente, in part because two of him is too much.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Brian Kamenetzky,
Stop being a fascist. If we want to talk about something, we should be able to talk about it.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 10:05 AM
Giantsquid,
That's what I figured. Those quotes were from well before the start of this past seson,when the coaching staff still thought Kwame might turn into a mediocre player.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 20, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Xodus,
I responded to your comment, but BK erased it in his newest round of passive aggressive politically correct control freakness.
In any case, to summarize, I think Michael Teniente has some seriously detrimental psychological issues, but he is intelligent and occasionally brings up interesting perspectives on things.
For the most part, I think it's simply a matter of not taking him too seriously.
Personally, I've become rather selective in who I read and who I do not read. I see no point in wasting my time reading a Let's Go C's! post and with Michael Teniente, if he is ranting against white players or Phil Jackson or subconsciously wishing for the death of Andrew Bynum, it usually becomes quickly apparent, and I just skip the post.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM
BK (aka "The Bat Boy of Bass Fishing"),
I'm sorry if I'm being a bit aggressive. I just hate it when posts are deleted. And I find it to be unnecessary.
Regarding the monitoring of personal attacks, listen, in a forum like this there has always been and always will be personal attacks. It comes with the nature of people discussing something their passionate about.
Would it be better if stuck to the subject--the Lakers and basketball? Absolutely.
Is that going to happen, especially in the offseason? No.
So, I think we should all just be big boys (and girls) and deal with it.
I've had to endure many a personal attack over the years, and it's generally not a big deal (unless, of course, I'm in a bad mood and the Lakers are losing).
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 12:53 PM
BK,
Coming from the perspective of a user of the site...
I think you're being less permissive than you guys have been in the past which is confusing.
It would be useful if you could draw a line in the sand for us to help us know what is and isn't acceptable especially since it seems that the rules have become a little more stringent or maybe you could see it as the current rules being more stringently enforced.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 20, 2008 at 03:59 PM
In any case, to summarize, I think Michael Teniente has some seriously detrimental psychological issues, but he is intelligent and occasionally brings up interesting perspectives on things.
For the most part, I think it's simply a matter of not taking him too seriously.
Personally, I've become rather selective in who I read and who I do not read. I see no point in wasting my time reading a Let's Go C's! post and with Michael Teniente, if he is ranting against white players or Phil Jackson or subconsciously wishing for the death of Andrew Bynum, it usually becomes quickly apparent, and I just skip the post.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I've had to endure many a personal attack over the years, and it's generally not a big deal (unless, of course, I'm in a bad mood and the Lakers are losing).
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 20, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Here, here Jon K. Good analysis and work around to maintain sanity and not waste time.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 20, 2008 at 04:05 PM
http://tinyurl.com/577vlb
The defensive woes, on the other hand, can be tied to two things: 1) Kwame Brown’s absence, also due to injury, in the post (“Peope don’t realize how important he is to us,” Winter says of Brown)
Posted by: giantsquid | July 20, 2008 at 01:27 AM
Cool article (not surprising since it's from Roland Lazenby). I do think it would be cool if we could get Pippen as an assistant coach even now.
Tex is a pretty straightfoward guy so it makes sense that he would vocalize what Kwame could give us on defense.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 20, 2008 at 04:10 PM
BK,
I disagree with your decision to NOT post messages that YOU believe contain personal attacks on another blogger, provided there is not any obscene or inappropriate language. Why now? We’re all big boys and girls and realize ultimately that words cannot really hurt us, especially considering the source of the words. And I can’t count how many times in the past somebody has accused me or another blogger of being stupid or dumb. Not being able to respond makes it seem as if someone else had the last word.
Frankly, most of us don’t mind negative comments that come from another Lakers fan. We know “their” hearts are in the right place and that would make this blog a pretty dreary and consistent place. Chastise us for our poor behavior and remind us of that that we’re all Lakers fans and adults, but please don’t start acting like we need a referee or umpire to censor our posts, especially not after having had to endure the vile crap posted by other team’s fans and trolls for all of these years. That seems to me to be a gross overreaction that is ultimately and patently unfair. Why change the rules now?
The truth about this entire situation is that some of us refuse to sit quietly while some retrograde who is not a fan posts his sick hopes and wishes for a key Laker player to be injured. That’s what should have been deleted, rather than posted, not our rightfully angry responses. That’s how I think this situation should have been handled, rather than having you belatedly jump into the fracas and announce an end to it. Mike T. must be smiling full force right now. It’s like his protector has come to his rescue.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 20, 2008 at 05:00 PM
Hey guys,
C'mon, quit it. The point is that you are all grown ups and stop debating on speculations and getting personal. As the saying goes: "an empty mind is the work shop of the devil." Since there are no hard news about the Laker moves, we have tendency to speculate on our likes and if someone makes a silly comment, we reply with silly remarks that leads to insults and unfriendly posts. The most you can do is be civil, respect one another and absorb the blame once a while by just posting funny remarks like Fatty.... for the sake of fun, fun, fun in the Lakers Blog. Insulting will yield no results, it's childish and it only inflames the message being posted that no reader appreciates. If you guys want the Lakers to improve, then bloggers and fans should also improve their ways or posts from year to year. PEACE.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 20, 2008 at 09:18 PM
I think you guys are doing a great job walking the tightrope between the requirements of the Times and the desires of the posters.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 20, 2008 at 09:18 PM
The K bros think they control people thoughts and words and I can't wait to catch them in line at Burger King!
Posted by: chuck23 | July 20, 2008 at 09:18 PM
bad that ronny has to go i mean he wasent a good player but he always had his head up and cheers the team up good luck in golden state
Posted by: albert jr | July 20, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Benjamin-
You're correct, the standards do sometimes change, depending on where the "energy" of the conversation is. There have been times in the past where we've had to crank down on certain posts/posters because quite frankly, they were destroying what was otherwise an enjoyable back and forth exchange of ideas between bloggers. The sort of thing we're trying to maintain. I'd love to say the rules are exactly the same all the time, that there's no subjectivity to it, and the like... but I can't. There is. But for the most part, the rules are pretty straightforward. Some (language, for example) are more or less ironclad in how they've been spelled out.
Others are slightly more fluid- but still pretty obvious if some common sense is exercised. Calling another blogger /bloggers an idiot, an a-hole, bitches, etc., those are not basketball arguments. Those are personal. I, for one, don't see a place for that sort of thing (especially when it gets out of hand and dominates the dialogue) on this site.
Benjamin, Laker Tom, Jon K., Mike T, and others-
We have a responsibility to readers of the site and to those who ask us to run it to maintain as civil a level of discourse as possible. I'm sorry if you guys don't like that some of your comments don't get posted, but honestly, the health of the site itself is more important than occasional hurt feelings on the part of some readers. That doesn't mean I don't value the contributions people make- this site flat out doesn't work without people like you who contribute on a regular basis- and in reality we let virtually everything through, and frankly go out of our way to be accommodating to the readers (as, I believe, we should, since as I said, the readers are what really make the site work). We're pretty liberal about what people can write.
Do we catch everything? No, in part because we try to make sure comments get posted as fast as we can. Is it a perfect system? Far from it. My point is that over the last few days I've seen things start to slide. It's not personal, and I'm not saying that everyone is equally responsible. Those people who become too abusive, who try to only bait and pull down the level of discourse, will be dealt with accordingly.
Every once in a while, this is something we have to do, despite the fact it's probably my least favorite part of the gig.
Hope that explanation helps.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 20, 2008 at 10:42 PM
Laker Tom-
Yes, I did stop a post of yours (this morning, I believe) among a few others, for reasons I explained earlier. You may not find the personal attacks to be a big deal- I do. As far as "getting the last word" in, there is no last word when that sort of stuff goes on. It's endless, and ultimately pointless. You make your contributions to this site with well thought, enthusiastic points regarding your team. Reasonable people, even if they disagree with you, will respect your opinion and respond accordingly. Those who don't aren't worth the trouble.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 20, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Farmar and Radmonovich for Artest. It works in the trade machine!
Posted by: Jesterguru | July 21, 2008 at 12:06 AM
I can't believe we're back to talking about Kwame Brown. Why would we want that loser stench back in LA? Seriously.
Dude can't play. He would kill this team. Probably with cake.
Posted by: Michael A | July 21, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Hey guys,
If you're wondering why some stuff gets censored, especially due to language, think of it this way: this is a forum for a public newspaper, would obscene posts be printed on a paper such as the LA Times and distributed to millions of readers?
Dirty mouth? For a good clean feeling, no matter what - try Orbit Gum.
lol
-bozz-
Posted by: bozz | July 21, 2008 at 07:25 AM
chuck23,
"The K bros think they control people thoughts and words and I can't wait to catch them in line at Burger King!"
Yeah, that'll be great, when you take their order. Lay off them, don't be a bum.
-bozz-
Posted by: bozz | July 21, 2008 at 07:46 AM
My fear is that other teams will employ the Celtics "pack the lane", slough off of Lamar, defense on the Lakers. Of course, during the regular season the referees will not allow the type of defense the Celtics deployed in the finals (i.e. holding, cringe inducing illegal screens, fouls on every posession - this is not whining, the Lakers should have done this too).
Posted by: C.S. | July 19, 2008 at 07:11 AM
-------------------------
The Lakers tried but were called for the fouls. Tbe bets favored the Celts in calls and lack of consistency in calling them. so no matter what the bets favored the greenies.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 21, 2008 at 08:03 AM
BK,
I understand. We (almost) all want this blogmunity to be it's best and we're not our best when we're throwing personal attacks at each other repetitively.
However, in your explanation you state "people will be deal accordingly." Does that mean that you are going to start censoring Trolls who are here only to cause trouble and dischord?
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 21, 2008 at 08:27 AM
I for one am totally FOR censoring personal attacks on the blog. I also feel for the K Bros is they have to do it, since it's childish and sucks, but there are no place for the attacks on a blog about basketball.
For those getting upset about it, a lot of blogs do it. Some of the really, really good ones will just ban you if you do it too often. Keeping it about basketball is great in my opinion.
As for trolls, they basically go away if no one pays attention to them, so no need to censor. It's also a blog about the Lakers, and that doesn't necessarily mean a blog about "Liking the Lakers".
Anyway, thanks (again) for the great work K Bros. I don't get to post and discuss as much as I would like, but I read often.
Posted by: Andrew Z | July 21, 2008 at 08:48 AM
In addition to what AZ had advocated, did you notice the thread was about Ronny Turiaf, why did it go to Bynum and Kwame? Too much fandom in the off season is just sickening, why don't we just chill out and converse amicably without pushing our own pawns. If we don't get our way, let it fly, it's just an opinion.
Well going back to Ronny Turiaf, here is the news at Contra Costa Times
http://tinyurl.com/5n8qwc
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 21, 2008 at 09:36 AM
I think the bandwagons should be censored too.
I thought there was an interesting and entertaining debate going on here. Too bad we couldn't see it play out. I just don't understand, if it has bad language fine, censor it. But these were just guys trying to hurt each others feelings, it was pretty funny actually.
I'd rather see guys passionately arguing their views and ideas than seeing a 'Let's trade for Artest' bandwagon and such on every other thread. Followed by a lovefest for Mamba. 'I love you Mamba, and I love this blog'. 'Please come back Mamba, I love you'. 'Mamba, can you make an "I love Kobe" bandwagon? I love you'.
Yes, Mamba is a good guy and all, but that is absolutely ridiculous. I'd much rather see LakerTom, JonK, MikeT, and all them get their debate on. As long as the language is cool there shouldn't be any problems besides some hurt feelings.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | July 21, 2008 at 09:38 AM
Jon K.
"The key with Michael Teniente is keeping in mind that he's a bit crazy and a bigot. If you read his posts in that context, there's nothing to get truly upset about. He's an intelligent, emotional child with a tremendous ego who is also a bigot."
You've referred to Mike t. as crazy, a bigot, an emotional child, and intelligent all in the same sentence. He's not intelligent, because he fails to see the other side of any argument. He's not intelligent simply because he's a bigot, which in my mind negates almost eny intelligence a person might have. He's not intelligent because the only arguments that he ever brings to this space revolve around a singular subject and involve nothing original. He controls this blog when he's around because people continue to fall for his BS antics. He knows it too.
I challenge anyone here to go back and read anything he writes and actually consider the thoughts as sane. Try it. They aren't. If you were sitting in a room with Mike t. and trying to have a conversation, how long would you stick around? Would you wait until after the first time he called you stupid? Maybe after he completely ignored what you'd just said and went back to saying what he wanted to say? He's not responding to any arguments here. He's thinking about what he wants to say next. That's it.
Mamba 24,
If you're out there, please start the "Ignore Mike T. for the better of the blog" bandwagon. I will drive.
Posted by: Anthony "Pig Bill" Miller | July 21, 2008 at 09:39 AM
hey Rocky,
You are entitled to your opinion.
We still love Mamba24 and the bandwagons are just respite to have fun than be serious all the time. We are all psuedo experts in this blog that sometimes it goes into our head that we know everything, we are aware of the ailment and we know the cure. Whatever we said or recommended, have you noticed that nobody in this blog predicted what Mitch Kupchak would trade? Up to this time, no one anticipated the move on Ariza or Gasol last season. Don't be too serious of what is being said here, it's just an entertainment, a coffee talk in donut shop in an online setting. That's how this blog is all about.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 21, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Jon-
I really appreciate your understanding of the issue. As for what I meant, it depends on what you mean by "troll." If it's someone who doesn't like the Lakers, or whatever, no I don't think we'll be dealing with those people. I'm talking about people who come on, are abusive to other readers, don't follow our posting rules. There have been people who seek to drown out debate by taking things down a few pegs on the civility meter. That's what we're looking to avoid. Fun bball trash talk is fine- the other stuff isn't.
Thanks.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 21, 2008 at 10:09 AM
"Don't be too serious of what is being said here, it's just an entertainment, a coffee talk in donut shop in an online setting."-EdwinG
That's my whole point. It was entertainment. Although, I sort of pictured sports talk to be in a bar as opposed to a coffee shop or donut shop.
But you know me, I'll get my point across and I'll leave it alone.
BTW, I have nothing against Mamba, so don't misconstrue what I'm saying. My point is that if this debate was jeopardizing the integrity of the Lakerblog. All of those bandwagons and stuff were doing the same thing.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | July 21, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Kobe just lost his best friend. Seriously, Turiaf was to Kobe what that other horse was to Seabiscuit. A calming influence to Kobe, and an energy boost to the rest of the team. Kobe's intensity offset by Turiaf's goofiness. It made Kobe a team player (finally). So, what happens to the Lakers now? I think this will have a really big effect in the locker room that we will probably never be privvy to. May Ronny's influence stay with us even if he is up north. Thanks Ronny!
Posted by: KobesPal | July 21, 2008 at 01:15 PM
BK,
>>>>>Yes, I did stop a post of yours (this morning, I believe) among a few others,
>>>>>for reasons I explained earlier.
I think you know how much I respect you and Andy but your response disappointed me. You are wrong when you say that you deleted a post of mine since very single post I submitted in the last three days has appeared in the blog without exception. I resent the implication that I have been abusive of another blogger or used foul or bad language.
It’s your blog and your rules which I will respect in the future just as I have in the past. But for some reason, I can’t get that sour taste out of my mouth or lose that feeling that I’ve somehow someway been screwed. Anyway, that’s all I have to say any more.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 21, 2008 at 01:47 PM
Rocky,
I am for minimal censoring of posts. I have many a time freaked out because I felt BK unfairly deleted posts of mine simply because they were somewhat scandalous in tone. I understand and respect BK and AK's desire to return to a more civil tone of discussion; however, I would rather have these things work their way out naturally as opposed to through subjective censorship defining the dialogue of Laker Nation.
No censoring of the bandwagons! Mamba24 is the anti-Michael T. because he brings unity to this blog like no one else. If you don't want to read a bandwagon, then don't, but there's no reason to spoil them for everyone else who enjoys them.
That's the beauty of a blog. You don't HAVE to read anything. You make a choice to read it. So, if it bothers you, you bare some personal responsibility for being offended.
Pig,
Brother, I understand your antipathy towards Michael Teniente. Listen, one time Michael and I literally had an email flame war (off blog) where we were threatening to kill each other we were so pissed off at each other.
Yes, I think that Michael T. is generally crazy, but I think a person can be intelligent and crazy. A lot of his arguments are structurally fairly sound, it's just that he makes logical leaps at times based upon ego and emotion that terribly undermine his conclusions.
I think it is best to read Michael T. with curiousity and an open mind, but to not take him too seriously. He occasionally makes good points that no one else would ever make (the creative benefit of madness), and I say take it at that. When he's offensive, just ignore him.
BK,
As much as I hate to say it, despiser of Trolls that I am, I think these things are best dealt with through the natural dialogue of the blog, not through censorship. I mean, I understand your desire to get the best out of this blog through keeping us focused and civil. However, what really makes this blogmunity special isn't its civility and intelligence (though these are extremely important). It's the whimsical diversity of personalities present on the blog. The good part of that passionate whimsical diversity is that you get a lot of humor, creativity, and unique insight into the subject matter. The bad part is you get a lot of loose cannons who can get aggressive, personal, and negative at times.
I say you take the good with the bad because if you start limiting the passionate whimsical diversity of opinion and expression on this blog through censorship, you really undermine the collective quality that makes this blogmunity truly unique for the sake of "civility" and "order".
Maybe there's a better way than censorship to keep us on track. I mean, AK is on fire as a writer when he gets pissed off. As markedly superior writers to the vast majority of bloggers here, you and AK can easily put people in their place through critiques of our posts. Maybe that would be a better, more spirited way of keeping bloggers focused instead of censorship.
Just a thought.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 21, 2008 at 02:03 PM
Laker Tom-
Sorry you feel that way. I did in fact hold a post (didn't delete, but didn't clear) of yours yesterday morning, as it was part of the back and forth I was trying to eliminate. Like I said, not everyone is equally "to blame."
Jon K.-
I wish we could always just let things play out naturally, but unfortunately the human instinct to "get in the last word" often makes these personal arguments never ending, and just as one guy constantly dropping f bombs can change the tenor of the entire site, even if most don't, three or four people sniping back and forth can foul the waters for everyone else.
I don't think, by the way, that "censorship" is exactly the right term here, either. To me, that would mean us as hosts not letting you express an opinion- perhaps something uncomplimentary towards Kobe, the Lakers, us, or something about the NBA others we or others would disagree with. What we're doing is asking people to cut out inappropriate language, and not use the board to lob personal (i.e. not basketball) related insults at each other.
That's hardly censorship, or at worst, a very minor (and completely appropriate) form. People are free to express basically any opinion they'd like.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 21, 2008 at 02:33 PM
BK,
Yeah, I understand the urge to get the last word in in an argument.
And I can understand your desire to get bloggers here to act like mature adults and not children.
Still, no one is perfect and when emotions get ruffled, people sometimes snap. As far as I'm concerned, it's not the end of the world.
And, in my mind, deleting posts because you feel the language is inappropriate (as opposed to profane), sounds like censorship to me.
As I mentioned in my response to Rocky, the thing is as bloggers we don't HAVE to read a post if we don't want to or if we're worried about being offended. My sympathies to you and AK because you two are the only ones on this blog who HAVE to read every post. Since we don't, I think we have a personal responsibility to not blame others if their post offends us. We made the choice to read it.
That's just my stance on things. You and AK are going to do what you're going to do. I'd just like to ask you to make an effort to not be too restrictive on our posts, even if sometimes that openness might make you feel a bit uncomfortable at times.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 21, 2008 at 02:58 PM