i live in prattville alabama and have my restaurant ding how. best buffet in here. i name my restaurant . i dont have a basement.

Weave,

you're saying exactly what i'm thinking.

If artest was a free agent, then HELL yes!!! But, if the cost is LO then the answer is NO.

I too think LO could be amazing off the bench with the "mob". He would bring the benches transition game and frenetic energy to another level. Our bench would be able to put up dozens of points in limited time.
LO off the bench would also allow our bigs to play aggressively. If either Pau or Bynum gets into foul trouble, LO can come off the bench and play the 4.

My biggest question then is whether or not Ariza is ready to start. Will his shot fall? Will he play the level of perimeter D some of us think he's capable of?

Kwaminus,

I like the other handle. it's like Earl of the VI order of something. What is it?

First of all...

People here are confused. We weren't missing our best perimeter defender in the Finals. Our best perimeter defender is Kobe Bryant.

Secondly,

I see a lot of people not seeking out additional information and just taking what the sensationalist media dumps in their lap in regards to Ron Artest.

Did you guys know he volunteered his time to announce at the Monarchs games?

Did you guys know that Artest volunteered extra hours at the animal shelter beyond that which was required of him by law?

Did you know the staff at the animal shelter love Ron Artest?

Did you know that Ron Artest is consistently one of the most generous in the NBA in terms of volunteering his time and donating money for people in need?

Did you know that Artest gave up his dogs and said he wouldn't keep dogs at home any longer because he realized he couldn't take proper care of them?

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/778921.html

LTLF,

You wrote that Bynum is the 3rd best Laker. You're
wrong on this. Kobe, Pau, Fisher are the 3 best Lakers.

I'm not sure that Bynum was better than LO last year
before he got hurt compared with LO after Pau shows
up.

PscyhedLakerGirl,

"Yes, he's smart but how smart do you need to be when all you do is run up and down and try to put up 110 points a game? And together (Ron & Capt) - weren't smart enough to make a talented Pacers team advance anywhere but they did get a lot of suspensions and flagrants."

Captain Jack's basketball intelligence helped that team do as well as it did. The guy can bring up the ball and run the offense easily, making very good decisions. I mention Captain Jack's basketball IQ along with Artest's because everyone is focused on the need for a decent basketball IQ to play for our Lakers. I also believe the importance of basketball IQ to play for Phil Jackson.

I'm totally okay with flagrants. Tough defense with physicality is an area in which the Lakers are very deficient. Artest has significantly lowered his flagrant count since 02-03.

The team with Artest and Jackson did pretty well, making it to the Eastern Conference Finals in '04. They took the Pistons to 6 games. The Pistons eventually won the championship.

"Trading LO after 4 years in PJ's system would force us to lose a LOT of the intangibles LO brings each night. Think about the rebounds alone - LO kills Ron on the defensive boards. Ron's inside game isn't that good and he would shoot when given the chance. We don't need LO to score we need the rebounds, inside game and passing skill to get out in transition."

3 years in PJ's system. The 05-06 season to 07-08. LO plays PF and Artest SF. That accounts for much of the rebounding discrepancy. I've watched Artest's inside game. I've seen him outmuscle some pretty big power forwards to get layups. His post up game is good. I like it better than Odom's because he is stronger and more determined than Odom.

If Odom plays the 3, we need him to be a legitimate scoring threat. Right now, it's hard to tell if that's the case. Bynum at 5 and Gasol and 4 changes LO's role dramatically.

"Ron's passing is good - but I will take LO's over Ron and Ron certainly can't play all 5 positions like LO can. And given his natural position, it would take him at least a year to be really effective in the triangle. MVP doesn't want to wait another year and LO can certainly adjust - he has already done so."

Ron can play 2-4. Odom adds 1, but I don't really think Odom can play the 5, except maybe against the Warriors with Harrington at 5. That's a bizarro matchup of little importance to me. I want to win championships.

I'm not sure how long it would take Artest. He's certainly not ever shown signs of confusion within an offense. You watch his game and you can tell he understands the game. Gasol learned the triangle pretty quickly. I think Artest could as well.

I'm not so sure Odom can adjust. I felt he struggled at the 1 (point forward). It seems to me that every season he's been with the Lakers he's struggled over the season as a whole. It was so bad prior to Mihm's injury in 06 that many on the blog considered him completely expendable.

I do agree that indoctrinating someone into the triangle often takes time. I'm convinced from what I've seen Artest would take less than average.

"And we would give up height as well. I think we all agree LO's length & height are far more beneficial to us and pose more matchup problems than Ron."

I disagree. Artest is quicker and stronger than Odom. I think he's as much of a matchup problem. I think with Bynum, Gasol, and Kobe, our height isn't such a problem.

"I understand the need to pick up a defensive specialistbut the Lakers don't need this simmering pot of water - one never knows when it's going to boil over..."

He only really boiled over once in a game with the Kings that I know of. He did a muscular pose versus the crowd and got double-T'd after feeding off the crowd a bit. Artest isn't really a defensive specialist. He averaged 20 points, around 4 assists and 6 rebounds. He's a legitimate scoring threat with consistency.

I thought these were interesting when trying to look objectively at AK's proposal:

www.shotsports.com (a computer game?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Artest
http://www.dailybreeze.com/sportscolumnists/ci_9410610

Typical Odom is underappreciated sort of article. One of its major points is that it's hard to get along with Kobe Bryant and Odom has that going for him. He doesn't score, but he can do other stuff... (we knew that!). He's a mellow guy that is soft-spoken. Yep, we knew that. We need him to be more aggressive, particularly on defense (consistently, not just in 10 games or so).

"Not many good "basketball" accomplishments in Ron-ron's wiki resume."

It's wiki, not a complete account of his basketball career. It doesn't tell the whole story. There's a lot of attention-getting negativity with the guy and the media has made that his calling card.

I think defensive player of th eyear is pretty damn good. This last season, he shot .453 and .380 from 3. It wasn't an aberration. He worked with a shooting coach all summer.

"I still pass on this trade and hold out until February!"

Fair enough.

GO LAKERS!

Hell yeah!

To answer the original post by AK, if the Kings would actually do a deal with the Lakers (snowball's chance in hell) AND they'd take some kind of package such as Vlad & Luke, then YES.

Lamar?

Um, the salaries don't work out, so it would be Lamar + someone (Luke?)... not necessarily a bad trade, but not the best one either. I'm for having my cake and eating it too. Artest in LA only if he can be had without going without one of our major pieces.

Sorry, I love Artest and I think he'd help A LOT, but he should have opted out. Now he's stuck in crummy cow town.

Posted by: Clayton Bixby | July 08, 2008 at 02:31 PM

Clayton Bixby,

Soft Power!

If Odom doesnt work out next year, look for him to be traded for Ron Artest prior to the trading deadline. On the other hand if he works out, Odom will stay. Thats my prediction and sticking to it. Artest will not move this summer.

However you could view Fisher as possibly being the calming influence that you're looking for.

Eric M,
Sorry - it's an "Animal House" reference. So was the "Wormer".

Jon K.'s Word on Potential Signings:

Ronny Turiaf - Yes
Sasha Vuljacic - Yes
Ron Artest - No
Corey Maggette - Yes
James Posey - No
Quinton Ross - Yes
Kwame Brown - No
Coby Karl - Yes
DJ Mbenga - Maybe
Marcelus Kemp - Let's see how Summer League goes
Joey Crawford - Let's see how Summer League goes

GO LAKERS!

RON RON TRU WARRIOR,

Wow. That really is something of an interview. Ron Ron is really kissing Kobe's butt.

The crazy weird thing is watching Ron Ron talk and his body language. He's like a kid. I mean that in both a positive and a curious ways. He's literally like a little kid.

Maybe that's his issue. He has all the childlike enthusiasm for the game that give him his energy, but at the same time he lacks the mental/emotional maturity to deal with moments of extreme stress.

Wow. That was a very interesting interview.

GO LAKERS!

justanothermambafan-

Very well said. I dont think Artest has ever been called the windex man or a swiss army knife. Just a pure nut case. Anyone that calls them self Tru Warrior has a few problems. LO is the man on and off the court and is a huge asset to this team. 09 will for sure be Odom's break out year as a Laker (if you don't think the 2nd half of last year was).

Lamar snags the board, dribbles down the floor and finishes with a beautiful left handed DUNK.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

Jon K.

My eyes!!!! My eyes!!!!

5 ways you can tell your promotions company has hit the skids:

5. You're hosting a "Back to training camp party" for a relative
4. That relative is a universally renowned NBA first round bust.
3. That relative's name is Kwame Brown.
2. Brian Cook is a headliner at that party.
1. Luke Walton is a headliner at the party.

Kwaminus,

Kwaminus Maria Conchita Alonso Brownicus and the Coochie Coochie Missed Layup Drill

Please use this moniker more often. It's outstanding.

bring ron to the team. instead of moving me to the bench move me to PG! imagine the lineup with me at the point, kobe at 2, ron at 3, and the two big men at 4 and 5. imagine that mismatch nightmare on offense. i can pass just as good as any starting pg in the league and on defense just make the switch so that kobe and ron guard the 1's and 2's on the other teams. im no magic but id be a great 6'10 PG. besides, the triangle doesnt even call for a true PG. when do you see fish REALLY handling the ball and being the playmaker. kobe runs that show.

Mike T.

It’s good to have you back and posting. You have a unique voice and point of view that approaches brilliance or borders on insanity at times depending upon the subject matter. I only hope we can keep our exchanges respectful and courteous and only wish the best as far as the health of every player on the team. With that in mind, welcome back.

You made some excellent points in your post regarding what you perceive as a huge advantage of having a big-bodied center who can play tough 1-on-1 position defense against opposing big men like Kwame Brown versus having a taller, longer, and more athletic shot-blocking center like Andrew Bynum. In your world, the Celtics would have won the Finals even if the Lakers had a healthy Bynum available because Kendrick Perkins would have punished and brutalized him like he did Pau Gasol.

To begin, I want to thank you for raising this issue as it really goes to the very heart of the defensive philosophy and strategy the Lakers need next year to win the championship. It should generate some excellent discussion of what the Lakers should do next year as far as a defensive game plan. I do not, however, agree with your conclusions that the Lakers need a player like Kwame Brown or that sealing the paint is a better prescription for winning an NBA championship than protecting the rim.

Let’s take a closer look at some of your conclusions:

>>>>>When you have a low post defender who can hold his position without the need
>>>>>for a double team then that allows the other 4 players to stay with their man.
>>>>>That means that the likelihood of attacking the rim by the opponent lessens

First, I have always agreed with you that Kwame Brown was one of the best 1-on-1 position defenders in the league, able to keep even Shaquille O’Neal from pushing him around. Beyond that, however, Kwame was NEVER a capable help defender or shot blocker or rebounder, or anything but a huge liability on the offensive end. Had he been otherwise, he would undoubtedly still be wearing purple and gold today.

Second, the advantage you get from a 1-on-1 defender like Kwame is not having to double team, NOT being able to play your man tight. Playing your man tight is suicide unless you have help in the form of a collapsing defense, like the Celtics did, or a great shot blocker at center, like Andrew Bynum. Playing tight is not how you make your opponent a jump shooter. It leads to more not less penetration. Think about it!

There are very few perimeter defenders who can prevent their man from getting into the lane, especially if they are guarding players like Chris Paul or Tony Parker, who can penetrate a defense almost at will. The only way to keep opponents out of the paint is NOT to play your man tight as you suggested but to slack off and clog up the middle. That’s what the Celtics did against the Lakers and why Kobe couldn’t get to the rim.
>>>>>Common sense will tell you that being able to seal the lane is better than protecting
>>>>>the rim because one is away from the rim and the other is at the rim. One is allowing
>>>>>penetration and the other is keeping the opponent taking outside shots.
First, there is no better interior defense than protecting the rim with an intimidating and physical shot-blocking center with size, height, and length – which the Lakers will have next year in Andrew Bynum. Protecting the rim with a great shot blocker is what will allow a team’s perimeter defenders to play tighter and pressure their men for steals and turnovers. It’s what also will enable better 3-point defense because players do not have to collapse to try and seal the paint and help prevent penetration; instead they can stay tight on their man or actually channel him into the shot blocker, which is what the Lakers will probably do next year with Andrew Bynum patrolling the lane.

Second, you ignore the intimidation factor that a great shot blocker like Andrew can have on the opposing team’s offense. It is even more effective than packing it in to seal the lane since the perimeter defenders can play their men tighter knowing that Drew will back them up if they get beaten. Remember back to the impact that Alonzo Mourning had when the Heat beat the Mavericks. It wasn’t Shaq’s body but Zo’s height, length and athleticism and shot blocks that totally intimidated the Dallas players. Protecting the rim with Andrew Bynum will be the core strategy for an aggressive, pressing Lakers defense next year. There will be no need to seal the lane when Drew is patrolling it.
>>>>> Max contract for Bynum? No way in hell!
I actually agree with you but not because I don’t think Andrew Bynum is worth the max. By signing him to a near-max extension this summer, the Lakers will get a discount from Drew in return for giving him financial security now rather than later and because I think he and all of the Lakers players from now on will be willing to take a little less to keep the team together, much as we saw Gilbert Arenas wisely do for the Wizards. and like we will probably see Elton Brand to for the Clippers. Not signing him risks losing him.

What you will also see from Drew this year is an even more physically buffed player who is going to dominate every center he plays against. Most basketball analysts already rank Drew as the 3rd best center in the league behind Yao Ming and Dwight Howard. He has the size, length, and athleticism to become a better 1-on-1 position defensive player than Kwame as well as an intimidating help defender due to his shot blocking ability. And we are not even talking about his potential to dominate on offense and the boards.

If you look back at Drew’s defensive prowess last year you will see that he is equally adept blocking the shot of the player he is defending or any player who beats a teammate to drive into the paint. He gave almost every center or power forward he played against – including Amare Stoudemire, Chris Kaman, Tyson Chandler, Tim Duncan, Jermaine O’Neal, Marcus Camby, Mehmet Okur, Ben Wallace, Brad Miller, et al – a difficult time on offense and blocked shots against every one of them on that list.

Bottom line, every team in the league wishes they had a player like Andrew Bynum so that they could deploy a protect-the-rim strategy like the Lakers will deploy next year, freeing perimeter players to play tight, pressure defense, shutting down the 3’s and looking for easy steals and turnovers. The teams who want to play good defense but don’t have a shot blocker like Drew will be the teams that deploy a seal-the-lane strategy and pack it in like the Celtics hoping that the other team can’t hit their jump shots.

Tom

JonK - weird - I thought the same thing when I saw RonRon interviewing Kobe. He definitely has a severe case of man-love for KB24....

Clayton

Estoy contento. Tengo respeto pero tengo una pregunta? Estaba escribiendo como "Ya Vamos C's?"

Casi siempre, Que tengan un buen dia!

Porque estamos hablando en espanol?Ay, como me confunden!

I think everybody is complicating so much this issue, the Lakers needs a real and deep change because the team is absolutly mediocre. I am from Europe (Norway) and I think this year they reached an amazing goal (Conference championship) and NBA finals, it is absolutly incredible with this horrible team. My opinion:

The only 3 good players are for this order, Kobe, Gasol and Odom, and sometimes with the parcitipation of Fisher, Sasha and Walton, but, I will only keep Sasha because Fisher is getting old and finally this game is so physical and Walton is a bench player that can have 10-15 minutes game but finally is very mediocre player that even here in Europe it would be a normal one. So, the base of this team in my opinion has to be: Kobe, Bynum, Sasha, Gasol, Odom (in the bench as role player), Turiaf and Ariza. We need and authentic revolution, 2 new point gurads and 2 new small forwards, Radmanovic, Walton, Lamar, Benga, Minh are not good option to try again to win the finals, they are good players but not for a champion team.

I love this direction. It's true that the Lakers would need to give up VALUE for Artest. Farmar and Ariza represent VALUE.
HOWEVER, that said, this trade would be just like the Celtics in that it would leave them just one piece short. A great Point guard. Fischer is a good point guard. He can handle the load for us for at least another year but we would need a piece to be our point guard of the future. Maybe Vulacic?

PsychedLakerGirl,

Why even address me if I'm just a blind, dumb Artest lover? You made a post, I responded effortfully and honestly and then you just blow me off, call me names, and equate me with the BS artists that are sports agents?

Sheesh.

I've made every effort to be honest about Artest, both his good and bad points.

It would seem that some here buy into the negative media portrayal of people and not the positive that they can't be reasoned with. Let's just listen to CNN shallow sound bites with no context and no follow-up.

I'm surprised how happy people are to just make stuff up like that Artest and Jackson's Pacers team was terrible (they were considered a legitimate title threat in 04-05) and that Artest has no post game.

No retractions, no responsibility, no honest attempt at discussion.

Just ad hominem labeling of me.

I don't deserve this treatment.

Many people here have a strong opinion about Artest. That's fine.

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone made an honest effort to have true information and base reasoning about that information? We're all probably going to keep the same opinions and agree to disagree anyway, but doing so creates a much nicer and friendlier environment.

We're all Laker fans here, after all. We all want the same thing.

I can't wait! If the Lakers stand pat, I like their chances. If they sign Artest, I like their chances!
IF we end up with Artest, the pieces we would need are a good back up Center and a back up point guard (guard of the future). . Vujacic could help out with the back up point guard and that's IF the young Coby Karl isn't ready for prime time.
Heck, Bynum is young enough to play big minutes in playoff games without a quality back up. Shaq did it with us. Who ever backed up Shaq when he was with us? And that should be motivation enough for Bynum eh? LOL.

Pietrus just reportedly signed with Orlando.

I can't believe Brand is going to go to fricken Philadelphia.

I think I'm going to be sick.

GO LAKERS!