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Ron Ron for LO? Or both? Or stand pat?

Some of y'all have been discussing Kurt's recent Forum Blue And Gold post about the notion of swapping Lamar Odom for Ron Artest, a plan of attack he's not particularly down to follow.  Kurt breaks down the stats that, in his opinion, make the Lakers better off sticking with Lamar Odom, but there's another angle that dawned on me after perusing his nitty-gritty.  Given that Ron Ron is, to put it kindly, something of a flake, and at his unpredictable worst is capable of, to put it kindly, wrapping up his team in a considerable amount of drama, it would behoove the Lakers to surround the small forward with as many positive influences as possible. 

Ironically, their #1 available asset might be Lamar Odom, who grew up with Artest and probably knows him better than anyone else with the franchise.  That background might help LO reach his old pal, or at the very least, keep him from going goony bird and messing up a rather unified locker room (with all due respect to the combined presences of Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher, don't even pretend it can't happen).  Along those lines, it could make sense for the Lakers to go out of their way to keep Lamar in the mix, assuming such wishes are even possible.

Thus, I began wracking my brain (and ESPN's trade machine) to come up with a scenario to retain LO while dealing for Artest.  I immediately skipped the solution most fans would drum up, dealing/packaging either Vlad Radmanovic or Luke Walton, since there's no logical reason the Kings would take on either's salary.  I don't care how disgruntled Artest may grow in Cow Town; Sacto would be better off buying him out or even suspending him for the entire season and watching him walk "for nothing" than screwing up their looming cap flexibility with role players.   On the flip side, the Lakers ain't offering Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Fisher (or, in this scenario, Odom) and have no other matching salaries, so here was the one deal I could come up with that might (and I emphasize "might") entice the Lakers' divisional rival. 

Trevor Ariza, Chris Mihm and Jordan Farmar for Artest.

Every outgoing Laker contract is expiring (always a plus), and in Ariza and Farmar, the Kings get to take a look at two young players, the former a super athlete who showed some promise last season and the latter who could, at worst, make a nice backup to Beno Udrih and, at best, possibly take over if he ends up a one season wonder.  But here's the problem.  The Lakers would be left with just seven players under contract, meaning they can't do this unless Sasha Vujacic and Ronny Turiaf are resigned (as the replacements would either be guys like Joe Crawford and DJ Mbenga or dudes on a split up MLE, likely not a powerhouse lot).  Even with those two in the fold, losing Ariza (increased backup minutes for Vlad and/or Walton, both of whom struggled last season), Farmar (who doesn't really have a replacement) and even Mihm (if theoretically healthy) could hurt the rotation more than Artest helps it. 

Thus, after all the brainstorming, we're back to the original drawing board proposal: Artest (and probably Kenny Thomas) for LO, valuable in his own right, great for team chemistry and perhaps a stabilizer to prevent Artest from destroying it.  So between that notion and the points brought up by Kurt, would you  stillmake the swap?   As I already said in LO's report card, I'm of the opinion that Odom should be retained until we see what's doing with the NBA's longest front court.   I'd have been willing to add Ron Ron as a free agent (had he pulled the opt out), but under the current circumstances, I'd likely pass. 

But I'm wondering what you think.

AK

 
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AK,
"osing Ariza (increased minutes for Vlad and/or Walton, both of whom struggled last season), Farmar (who doesn't really have a replacement) and even Mihm (if theoretically healthy) could hurt the rotation more than Artest helps it. "

Your first point there is not valid, because if you have Artest there would not be increased minutes for Vlad and Luke - the opposite would be true. Agree with your second point, although they could sign a PG with the MLE, it would be hard to find one with the potential of Farmar .Losing Mihm is not an issue, because if the team has Artest, then Odom is playing some combinaiton of PF and SF, both off the bench, which leaves Gasol available for backing up C, with Turiaf as his backup.

If you keep Odom, though, the team does not get "full value" from Artest, Gasol, and Odom, because there aren't enough minutes. There is also the issue of having to work two new players into the triangle, (Artest and a presumed new PG) as well as getting Odom used to a new role and Gasol used to a new position in the offense. I don't make that trade.

I think we have to do it. With word that the Spurs or Celtics are close to signing Maggette, it is imperative that we not be content with what we have while all the top dogs are improving. As these Finals showed, we are a ways from being able to truly compete at a championship level. Many Laker fans believe that getting to the Finals was good enough, but it was the most lopsided six game series I have ever seen in any sport. Two things stood out: toughness and defense. These two weaknesses need to be addressed lest we suffer a repeat of history for the third time (2004, 2008, 2009?).

I would opt to keep LO over Ron Ron but would take both if possible.

LO is versitile like few others and Ron Ron would be kept in check if tantrum city breaks out, LO will still be here to take minutes given to RA. Therefore chemistry issues are minimized.

it's about time, you guys posted.
anyway, i'm sticking with LO on this. artest is a team destroyer wherever he goes. :)

I say stand pay with what we've got. Despite our ridiculous injury problems all season and into the playoffs, we ended up with the best record in the Western Conference and made it to the NBA Finals. There's no good reason to believe the Lakers won't even be better next season.

Let's see what this team can do over a full season bwfore doing anything drastic. Why gamble with Chemistry and trade for Artest now, when he probably could be had for nothing next season? Let's not make the same mistake the Mavs made.

Pass.

Would also have loved him as a free agent, but I don't think he's a "savior" for this team, especially at the expense of seeing what can be accomplished with guys who already know the system, and will operate within it.

Let the team have a chance to see if the triple towers lineup can work. Let Lamar come off the bench if that works best. There is plenty of time to trade if that becomes necessary, although I don't think it will.

But hey, if by some miracle someone comes a callin' for Waltmonovich, then I suddenly become ALL ABOUT the trade! haha

Let's pick up a good free agent and go back to the battle with renewed determination. I would like to hear from the FO that they are looking to be very defensive minded going forward. Minor tweaks and a commitment from every player on the roster to work hard and improve their game.

And HOW MANY days till tip-off? @%$*%$#!

Ex,

""osing Ariza (increased minutes for Vlad and/or Walton, both of whom struggled last season), Farmar (who doesn't really have a replacement) and even Mihm (if theoretically healthy) could hurt the rotation more than Artest helps it. " Your first point there is not valid, because if you have Artest there would not be increased minutes for Vlad and Luke - the opposite would be true."

Actually, you caught a typo (thanks). It was supposed to be "increased backup minutes" for Vlad or Walton, since I was picturing Ariza stealing a lot from both.


"Agree with your second point, although they could sign a PG with the MLE, it would be hard to find one with the potential of Farmar .Losing Mihm is not an issue, because if the team has Artest, then Odom is playing some combinaiton of PF and SF, both off the bench, which leaves Gasol available for backing up C, with Turiaf as his backup."

I see what you're saying about Mihm, but that's also with the presumption of everyone healthy and out of foul trouble. But either way, your point makes sense.

AK

It's already July and the NBA FInals is still fresh in my heart...

I watch the NBA FINALS in my DVR over and over again.

I have a one conclusion. "SOFTNESS" is what truly frustrates me the whole series.

Bynum and Ariza is not going to be enough to toughen our "SOFTNESS".

We need to eliminate soft at every position or atleast take out the soft players from the rotation and bring in replacements/back up that can faced the RUGGED play of the EAST. Western Conference is to finesse of a game, Lakers can dance their way in. It is different back EAST and this is the most important subject of the summer. LAKERS must respond to this.

It needs to happen, I would sacrifice one/two Laker offensive threat to bring toughness to Lakerdom.

If you asked me Lakers need toughness at every position except SG (KOBE AND VUJACIC).

C, PF And SF, a bruiser needs to come in. One that is looking for a fight not just score points.

If I was Turiaf I would have shoved Leon Powe to the floor instead of tapping his head.

If I was Gasol I would have put my nose on Perkins forehead, when Sasha came to his rescue.

If I was Luke or Vlad, I would have gotten a flagrant foul everytime Paul Pierce drives in the lane. A flagrant foul from Luke or Vlad would have been a huge contribution. You are in the NBA FINALS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! Do SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I were Odom, I would have gotten a techincal foul hanging on the rim everytime I slash in when Odom made those sizzy lay ins.

These Lakers has no backbone on toughness, these Lakers does not have a Leader, one that will back up every Lakers that gets in trouble..

If I am Phil Jackson I would have told my players you are a bunch of soft basketball players. Starting from game 1, Van Gundy and Mark Jackson were already talking about the Lakers softness in defense, while appreciating Boston's in your face/taking charges and pushing every Lakers that comes in the paint.

Freakin Lakers >>> all the way to "GAME 6" did not respond. SOFT!!!! SOFT!!!! SOFT!!!!

LAKERS ARE SOFT!

Until the Lakers does not learn how to respond to being SOFT, we do not deserve another NBA Championship.

These Lakers except for Kobe, Sasha and Farmar are a bunch of ladies wearing Laker Jerseys.

Corey Maggette to the Lakers!

Hot rumor, Maggette has final three teams he wants to play for next year. Celtics, Lakers and Spurs; not necessary in that order. Corey's Agent and the Lakers have been talking and the Lakers are waiting to see if Sasha accepts the offer they propose. Word is; the Lakers are expecting other teams to offer Sasha more money than the Lakers and that would open for the Lakers to offer Corey. The Lakers would like to keep Sasha but they are not willing to give him the mid-level excempt. More news will be posted in the near future.

Every freakin day this SUMMER I will call these LAKERS TEAM SOFT FREAKIN LAKERS... Until they do something and bring Toughness to the team...

I want a Paul MIllsap, Jasom Maxiel, Kwame Brown, Kurt Rambis, AC Green, Rick Fox, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley next year in Lakers uniform.

Somebody needs to put Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the floor.

Oh great. With all the Ron-mania that's been flooding recent threads, you guys just had to invite more.

Meanwhile, my own vision quest - that being the signing of Chris Birdman Andersen - is gaining no blog traction whatsoever.

I wasn't expecting universal love on this one but I figured that at least you, the K-brothers, would see the true entertainment value of such a move.

Meanwhile, Andersen's meeting with the Celtics. They wanted to sign him after his reinstatement but the Hornets still held his rights and exercised them. Now that the Birdman's a FA, the Celtics are trying again to land him.

Mike T might argue that the dude's got ridiculously skinny legs but it makes no nevermind to me - he's probably still the best high-fly big man in the league. I say we sign him for veteran's minimum and let him shred for 10 minutes a game.

As far as Boston goes, the Birdman was born in Long Beach. Don't worry, he'd come back.

No way I or the Lakers FO would do Odom for Artest and Kenny Thomas.

As for Ariza, Mimh, and Farmar for Artest, there is a chance that Sacramento may do it, both to get rid of Artest and at least get something back. But I don't think it's likely since they just signed Udrih and they have other holes to fill at this moment.

As far as Odom having a "stabilizing" influence on Artest, I'm afraid that Artest will be a negative influence on Odom. Think back to when the Dodgers got both Eric Davis and Darryl Strawberry. Not good.

The idea of Ron Ron is intriguing. But I just don't know if there's any benefit to dipping our toes in the rough waters of Ron Artest. Or rather I'm not adventurous/crazy enough to do so lol.

Plus we would lose a talented and could possibly be a better player long range (for us) in Trevor Ariza.

Now LO? This is tougher. I think some would argue (I myself go back and forth on this topic), that LO just does not fit. Has not fit. And what he lacks in the mental aspect, or rather the "work ethic" aspect...is just not something that spells championship (esp considering he is one of our leaders). On the other hand, Ron Ron when focused on the game is arguably one of the league's best defenders, and he has shown a mental toughness.

But at the end of the day, I still wouldn't do it. Not for LO, not for Vlad, not for Mihm. We have ourselves great chemistry; chemistry that could turn into something fabulous. Bringing in Ron Ron will surely mess with that. And while we do desperately need an enforcer/main defender, I just don't think this is worth it. Unfortunately this is not Dennis Rodman. Early Dennis Rodman. And last I saw, PJ couldn't work his magic on late Dennis Rodman lol.

Just say no to Ron-ron.

Also as it pertains to LO, you never know this might be the year when that lightbulb goes on and he becomes an all-star lol, jk.

Go Lakers!

HI all! I have missed out on a bunch because I am going thru some not so good work stuff....mortgage industry (UGH).

I love the discussion and applaud you AK for throwing this one out there as "filler" for this FA period of humdrum, no news.

I'd pass on this one absolutely. I would even say no way, not happening. I don't think any of the current cast who were part of 2004 want to go through the same problems with adding another wild card to the roster.

I know they are friends but gosh - does MVP REALLY want to babysit someone who is a bit of a free spirit? Heck no - he wants to win a championship. MVP knows what he has in LO and knows how he can be tweaked in the new season. And I think you will find LO on board with whatever he is asked to do. He wants to stay in LA.

Ron-Ron is a huge question mark. I don't think he is a "system"-type player nor would I even say a great teamate. And last I checked we still had PJ and the triangle is still the preferred offense to which the entire current roster has "bought in". Additionally, I don't think Ron-Ron has the high b-ball IQ which the Lakers really treasure.

Another year with this nucleus, in this system is going to be hugely beneficial for this team. Ball movement is key and with an obvious focus on the defensive end - I think this current roster (assuming Ronny and Sasha return) will be playing much differently than we saw in June.

I say let it ride until February. Stick with who we have and hold out for another magic trick. Come trade deadline, there will be some pretty desperate teams and Jerry Buss always seems to take advantage when we least expect it.

Hold em, don't fold them Jerry and Mitch!

GO LAKERS!

Just a thought!

Kings, Bucks & Lakers

Milwaukee wants to get rid of Charlie Villanueva.

1st: Kings Get Charlie Villanueva and Desmond Mason = (Exp)

Bucks get rid of Charlie Villanueva and get Walton close friend to Richard Jefferson. along with Mihm (Exp)

Lakers get Ron Artest while keeping L.O.

Trade Idea

2 team Trade Idea

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?
players=25~549~2027~518~2792&teams=13~15~15~
23~23&te=&cash=

Well Sac would want to include Shareef
then this trade but not likely.

3 Team Trade

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?
players=3~25~549~1016~2027~518~2792&teams=13
~13~15~23~15~23~23&te=&cash=

just ideas..... thanks

Grrrrr, stop the crazy talk! No Ron Ron, Ron ron bad, bad!

Also AK/BK you guys are such slackers, how dare you post a new blog? Don't you know you should be outside of Sashas house trying to figure out what he is going to do? if he gets a new hair cut, I want to know. waxes his eyebrows, I want to know, runs over kitten on the road, I want to know. Did you not get the memo? It's Sasha Watch 2008!

AK.

Interesting narrowing of the trade parameters. I’m on record as not willing to consider trading Lamar until we see how he fits in with everybody healthy and starting together. I think I’m also leaning toward not even signing Posey unless he will accept a 3-year deal. We don’t need future role players like Vlade and Luke tying up cap space and causing us to pay luxury tax dollars. Nor do I like the idea of accepting Thomas’ contract.

A lot of other teams seem to also be emphasizing shorter contracts – more to stay or get under the cap for the 2009 free agent crop headed by LeBron, Wade, and Bosh than to save luxury tax – but with the same effect in that it should be easier to sign guys to shorter contracts as they become the norm throughout the league.

As for trading Ariza, Farmar, and Mihm for Artest, I think the price is too high and the deal too much in the Kings favor, especially if Mihm really does come back to be the player he was before he was injured. And I still love Ariza’s and Farmar’s potential enough to worry that this is the type of deal that we could end up regretting after a few years. The chemistry is so good on this team that I think it is too early to panic.

I may feel differently early next season if the Lakers can’t easily implement their planned Triple Towers offense, Lamar can’t adjust to the 3 or as 6th man, Ariza doesn’t look like he’ll turn into our defensive stopper, Farmar doesn’t make the Deron Williams 3rd year leap that I’m hoping for, or Sun Yue suddenly looks like a better prospect at point.

For now though, I like the lineup and depth chart that Happy first listed with the possibility of adding Posey for no more than the full MLE for 3 years or sticking with Coby Karl or Joe Crawford as the 15th player if we cannot get Posey. As you said before, there is no reason to make a move until we first find out what we really have.

C: Bynum Mihm Mbenga
PF: Gasol Odom Turiaf
SF: Ariza Radmanovic Walton
SG: Bryant Vujacic Karl
PG: Fisher Farmar Sun

Tom

Aloha AK

Considering the 1st 5 games came down to the wire without Andrew or Trevor I say pass on Artest. Adding a healthy Bynum for me would be enough. The NBA is all about match ups and Andrew would have changed everything.

Perkins would not have been able to push out a much Stronger, longer Bynum like he did Pau. But the biggest plus would have been Pau at the 4. The only game KG had to guard Pau was Pau's best. He had 19 points on 6-10 shooting 12 boards and 6 assists. And the bigger issues is KG would have to stay home on Pau. Pau is a natural face up player with a good mid range J so KG would not be able to cheat back into the paint like he did last time. Of course thats all good for Kobe. He would have much more room to drive to the hoop.

On the defensive end, we would have both andrew and pau to erase defensive mistakes with a block. And again more importantly Lamar would be guarding Pierce. Now you brought this up before but what is lost in Lamars inconsistant offense is the fact that he is a pretty good defender. Pierce had a cake walk with Vlade and Luke guarding him. He wouldnt have hoisted the MVP trophy with Lamar on him.

And of course we forget that Trevors is a very good defender. He had just got back and hadnt played any significant minutes since January. Its unfair that everyone suddenly came to the conclusion that we needed this huge upgrade under those circumstances.

Finally, I maintain that defense didnt lose this series. With the exception of our game 6 implosion we played enough D. It was our offensive execution that killed us. With a healthy Andrew that all changes.

MH

Agreed. This team is fine as it is, and LO fits perfectly in the lineup as far as tangibles and intangibles go. Our off season should be more about signing/resigning players, not pointless gambles.

However, an extra asset is always handy. It would definitely be worth a try to take both. Then, if drama starts stirring up there'll be plenty of teams willing to trade us a few of their solid role players for a guy of Artest's caliber.

LO for Artest? Absolutely positively do this deal! The criticisms of Artest are overblown. He didn't "destroy" Sacramento. To the contrary, he was a good teammate on a crappy team that showed him no love.

Do you realize what kind of lineup that gives the Lakers? You have 3 legitimate allstarst (Kobe, Pau & Artest) with a possible allstar center joining the fray. By themselves Kobe, Artest and Fish would be a fantastic permiter defenisve team, but to give those guys out front the protection of TWO seven footers down low? Awesome.

Look, Lamar is a good guy but he is not a champion. Tell me how this guy still can't use his right hand? The same inner forces that tell him it is ok to hit the clubs in LA during the Finals are what keeps him from taking that incredible potential and making the most of it. Any way you slice it, there is no way that a left handed 6'10" guy with great ballhandling skills should boast a career scoring high of barely over 30 points (playing on some crappy teams, no less). He's never been an allstar, and that is unforgivable for a guy with his talent.

Artest may have had his issues in the past (and remember, those issues are in the PAST, and on bad teams), but Lamar has his issues every year. Do you remember how often Lamar had a smile on his face in the Finals when the Lakers were losing? That's both predictable and unacceptable.

Artest helps LA spread the floor better, which will be critical to the success of the Pau/Bynum/Bryant trio. We've already seen how teams will defend next year's team (wiht L.O.), and it is called a zone defense. Without a consistent jumper, Lamar will be left with lots of room to hold the ball and stare at the defense. There's no need to guard him on the perimeter, because even if he makes a shot (or two or three) there is simply no threat that he will consistentely take (much less make) that shot throughout a game.

With Lamar, I'd say the Lakers are a great team, and even possibly a championship team. With Artest, they are an unbeatable team that is unguardable on offense and a defensive nightmare with their perimeter defenders and their unparalleled length. So, please, do this deal!

Ugh...NO!NO!NO!!!!

As in no Artest, no trade of LO, and no more bitching about how soft our team was in the Finals. This is a good team already, and I think tinkering for the sake of tinkering is meaningless. Also, who do we get at PG to replace Jordan if we trade him to CowBell Land? Let's see how the Sasha/Ronny situation plays out and then we can make a move. The last thing we need is a Me First player like Artest - the guy's a drama queen and that's the last thing we need.

Miguel S.,

Nice and creative thoughts...

I don't think the Bucks would want Puke. Lakers might have to throw in Ariza and Farmer instead of Puke.

Kwame "was that the point guard that blew by me?" Brown tough? When did he ever protect the paint? Or even go after an offensive rebound? Tough? Now thick, yes. Tough, afraid not.

MH

Why not just wait until February before making any decisions?

i agree with michael h. the defense was there for the most part, but our offense just stuttered.. especially our second unit that just couldn't get any offense up, luke and ronny couldnt do anything all series. farmar struggled for the first few and sasha for the last few.

considering the slower tempo the starters were roughly on par with the season. but the much vaunted bench mob got shut down as a rule. game 3 being the exception.

ps. please oh please stop hating on lo/pg. continue to do so vs people who don't actually produce real statlines a la luke/vlad

BLOG-SYNC-THINK SAYS STAND PAT…

Looks like we all agree with your original assessment, AK. There is no need or urgency to trade Lamar right now or to break up our great team chemistry by trading Trevor, Jordan, and Chris or anybody not named Walton or Radmanovic for Artest or anybody else until we see how things work out with everybody healthy and starting together.

So say me, ex, Psyched Laker Girl, Happy, sclakerfan, Faith, and michael h on this thread and many others on earlier threads. Case closed. Let’s move on.

Next year begins the Era of the Beast.

Tom

Repost of my rebuttal to the blue and gold take on Artest. It was re-re-lifted from Blue and Gold to hoopshype to the previous LA Times lakersblog:


(1) Why Artest is NOT a good fit for the Lakers…

“A lot of Laker fans are envisioning Ron Artest taking Lamar Odom's spot. Kurt from Forum Blue and Gold has several reasons why the Lakers should not do that. Here are three: "1) He is a worse shooter than Odom. Last season, using traditional FG%, Odom shot 52% and Artest 45%. Use eFG% (to account for three point shooting) and Odom is still 5% higher. The reason is Artest takes a lot of jumpers (66% of his shots last year) while Odom gets to the rim (44% of Odom's shots are jumpers). And, on all those jumpers, Artest shoots just 3% higher than Odom. Look again at Artest's hot zones shooting chart - he is not a good midrange guy at all. Bottom line, Artest is like Iverson in that he takes a lot of shots to make his points, he is not an efficient scorer. 2) Artest is not someone who has played well inside an offensive system. There are things he does well, but what are the Lakers going to do when Artest decides he should just take his man (on the post or on the wing) and steps outside the offense? The Lakers offense was impressive last year because everyone played within the system. Do you really think Artest is going to do that for a season and playoffs, when that has not been his MO in the past? 3) Lamar Odom is a much better rebounder than Artest. I don't think anyone would question this - last season Odom grabbed 15.6% of available rebounds when on the floor, Artest was at 8.6%. You can say that a healthy Bynum will soak up some of those, but for a team that wants to get out and run having control of the boards will be key. Odom led some of the best Laker breaks this year by grabbing the board and bringing the ball up himself, and we need more of that not less."


What the Lakers seem to really need is some toughness and better defense, particularly on ball defense at the 3. Artest provides these better than almost any player in the game.

1) I don't care about Artest's shooting percentage THAT much. It's more important that he can shoot the 3 and midrange jumpers. According to the info here, he's better at that than Odom. He's a better shooter than Iverson as well, by a few percentage points. Last season was close, but Iverson shot way better last season than he has his career.

2) The questions about Artest playing outside the offense are a question worth asking. If Artest is signed it would need to be made clear that he plays within the offense. You need to guarantee him shots too. Compromise. You need to give him some flexibility to be creative with the match-up advantages he has against most players. I believe this issue can be fixed, particularly if Artest is on a winning team.

3) It's not fair to compare Odom and Artest's rebounding since Artest plays the 3 and Odom plays the 4, much closer to the basket. Additionally, Odom is asked to perform more rebounding because he's very good at it whereas Artest has more responsibilities in the scoring and defensive departments.

When Odom is moved to the 3, I think the team rebounding suffers a little, but not by a ton versus Artest.

Trading Odom for Artest does involve real compromises. I'd still do the trade because I think we get something the team really needs and don't lose nearly as much by doing it.

Posted by: Benjamin | July 07, 2008 at 06:05 PM

You guys are nuts.

Since we have Bynum and Gasol at the 5 and 4 why would you want to keep a very weak minded person who can't shoot or play good D at the 3? If he plays the 3 his rebounds will go down, so are you keeping him for his scoring? I didn't think so.

Give me a True SF in Artest to cover the Lebrons and Pierces of the league anyday over Odom.

You add him Artest to this team, you not only got a lot tougher but you almost make it not fair for the NBA. I don't think they lose 82-0.

GET ARTEST BUSS!

ARTEST FOR LO EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK..give me a tough question.


BD

Wow, losing Ariza, Farmar and Mihm to get Artest? That's a tough pill to swallow. I'd pass, but I don't feel great about it. Artest really is a unique talent.

I don't want to lose Farmar. We need a backup point guard that knows our offense.

If we lost Ariza, we could make up for it by getting Posey.

If we lost Farmar, maybe our new signee or Sun Yue could partly fill the void?

Mihm could even be something to lose if he returns to pre-injury form, something I consider possible, but it's hard to tell how probable.

I think if we were to make this deal, the best way to do it would be to check out our new guy (forget his name--didn't seem important) and Sun Yue in training camp and go from there.

If it looks like they'd be alright, then and only then would I pull the trigger.


What terrible irony. The one person with the best chance of pacifying the mercurial Artest is the one guy we'd most like to trade to get him. Bummer.

Also as it pertains to LO, you never know this might be the year when that lightbulb goes on and he becomes an all-star lol, jk.

Go Lakers!

Posted by: Faith | July 07, 2008 at 10:23 PM


Thanks for making a joke when you say that. After four years, it gets kind of painful to read that. You have no idea what a relief your j/k lol was.

PsychedLakerGirl,

Ron-Ron is a huge question mark. I don't think he is a "system"-type player nor would I even say a great teamate. And last I checked we still had PJ and the triangle is still the preferred offense to which the entire current roster has "bought in". Additionally, I don't think Ron-Ron has the high b-ball IQ which the Lakers really treasure.


Watch him play. His basketball IQ is up there with Stephen Jackson. Yes, Captain Jack is a very smart on-court player. Ron's crazy, but his basketball IQ is solid. Sometimes his crazy gets in the way a little.

Pass on RonRon with or without LO. But while I like LO and his game, I don't see any way he's a Laker next Spring.

Even if Bynum, Gasol, and Odom are able to play well together, the result would be so much congestion in the lane that it takes away Kobe's drives to the basket and making him a jump shooter. That is moving backwards.

But the tryout at SF won't last past the New Year, relegating LO to playing PF. And there are not enough minutes to go around for three prime-time big men. Even if you assume that Mihm doesn't play and Turiaf plays minimal minutes (10 min/game), then one of the three (Bynum, Gasol, and Odom) ends up playing less than 30 min/game - and more likely less than 20 min/game if they want a cohesive unit.

What the Lakers need is more and better outside shooting. The deal that makes the most sense is LO for Rashard Lewis. Lewis doesn't solve any of the defense or toughness issues, but those will always be problems until the offense works properly. And Lewis he helps get the offense back on track.

Leo

Artest is a 32% carear 3 point shooter. Lamar is 31%. How is that spreading the floor? And while We would all like Lamar to be more agressive on offense, at least he doesnt get benched for shooting his team out of games. And one last thing, while Lamar will accept a 4th option on offense, will Artest? Thats a huge point. Remember, the guy thinks he's Kobe on offense. He's not.

MH

Thanks AK for giving us something to talk about again while we are waiting for news.

Its fun to talk about Artest but we all tend to only remember the good Artest.

Bad Artest is very risky.
Bad Artest is walking on thin ice with the NBA.
Bad Artest beats his wife and is suspended 7 games. David Stern says if it happens again, he can expect much more time off, much more. How can Odom prevent that from happening?
Bad Artest takes games off because he just didn't feel like playing.

Mitch made it very clear, Lamar Odom for Artest before was not worth the risk. Why would it now be okay?

All indications are we are going forward with this line up. The Big Experiment will happen. If it doesn't work, Dr Buss needs to reduce the Lakers humongous payroll. Odoms expiring contract can open the door to bring the Lakers salary down to a manageable level.

The Lakers core unit was tough enough to win the Western Conference, inspite of what our resident racist commenter thinks. Next year, add to the squad Bynum and Ariza, give them the entire year like Boston had, and the Lakers will improve their toughness. A committed group to team defense, will perhaps be enough to prevail this time.

Our biggest weakness, according to Kobe was rebounding. When Bynum was playing nobody beat the Lakers on the boards. Bynum intimidates. Bynum playing with Pau, Odom, and Kobe will dominate.

Nobody here can argue against this point. That the Lakers team chemistry was the best its been in years. Artest will not improve it and will not fit in well. One rotten apple will ruin the whole barrel, its not the other way around.

There is the good Artest and the bad Artest. But when it comes to the Lakers, the No Artest is the way to go.

I can't see Artest in a Laker uniform, and don't want to. he is way more trouble than he is worth. I want to see what we have next year with Bynum, Pau and Lamar. Personally, I can see Lamar coming off the bench. We need someone to spread the floor to start at the 3. We need to sign Sasha, have him start at the 2, and Kobe at the 3, with Lamar off the bench. Anything but Artest....

Leo,

I disagree that Artest was on bad teams. His Pacers team (the year before his foray into the crowd at the Palace) was in the Eastern Conference Finals. They had Tinsley (healthy), Reggie Miller (older, but could still shoot), Jermaine O'Neal (healthy), and Stephen Jackson.

I think Ron's issues with Rick Carlisle's anal coaching was partly to blame for Ron Ron leaving. Both Artest and Larry Bird wanted the stigma of Artest in the crowds behind them. Part of the reason why Artest left is that he heard a lot of legitimate rumors about being shopped (which he was--the deal for Maggette was well known) and he didn't like the uncertainty. He iddn't handle it the best way, but it's not exactly an easy situation to handle.


I do agree that Ron being a bad teammate is overblown. On the Kings, he did send an e-mail to the team announcing his retirement, but otherwise, it seems like he's actually been pretty good to that franchise. He worked on his shooting (to good effect), always played hard, and played very injured after his elbow surgery putting the team way ahead of his health.

He was very nice in the media to Francisco Garcia and John Salmons, even after Salmons freaked out after kicking ass in Bibby and Artest's absence only to get fewer minutes when Artest returned.

Ron has shown a strong commitment to the Kings franchise which has not been reciprocated.


Artest is a gamble, but he gives us toughness, offensive firepower with decent shooting, and strong defense at the 2/3/4 which we really need.

Buss, despite his known poker playing habits, isn't much of a gambler. His reputation is that of an extremely tight player. What I've seen of his play on High Stakes Poker confirms the truth of that rumor.

Benjamin was that sarcasm? lol. Sarcasm as we know just doesn't translate well in Lakerville.

If it isn't, nevermind. lol.

One last thought on the LO vs Artest. As we all know, injuries happen, we have been hit hard 2 years in a row. If Andrew or Pau goes down, who would you rather have at Power Forward Lamar or Rony? I really dont think there is even any question there. and Lamar will still see plenty of minutes at the 4 next year, even if he starts at the 3. Lamar gives us much more versitility.

MH

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players
=996~510~25~849&teams=14~23~13~13&te=&cash=

Plausible, no? I wouldn't mind unloading Gasol's contract and keeping Lamar at the 4.

dan,

“What the Lakers need is more and better outside shooting. The deal that makes the most sense is LO for Rashard Lewis. Lewis doesn't solve any of the defense or toughness issues, but those will always be problems until the offense works properly. And Lewis he helps get the offense back on track.”

As sonny would point out, Rashard is definitely ”soft” when compared to Lamar but nowhere near as “soft” as Vlade, who is sort of a Rashard Lite. Both were Seattle 3-point shooting small forwards who disappointed the teams that eventually won their services. While Rashard is definitely a better overall offensive player than Vlade, they both are 40% career 3-point shooters with Rashard higher scoring average due to more minutes. Neither is an especially good defender, rebounder, passer, or ball handler.

Yes, we could use better outside shooting at the 3 but we also need that player to be able to play defense as well as contribute in other ways. No, Rashard Lewis is not the answer. I would have no problem trading Vlade (and let’s say Luke to match salaries) for Rashard but not Lamar. He is twice the player that Rashard is in every category except for 3-point shooting, including defense, ball handling, passing, rebounding, and attacking the rim.

Tom

I say go for it. If we are keeping LO, Ariza is not getting a lot of minutes anyway. Mihm won't be missed if we have Drew and Pau at the C. Farmar will be a tough one to replace - if we can use our MLE to get someone in the FA market (Shaun Livingston, Jannero Pargo, Ben Gordon?), we'd be okay. Afterall, Kobe, LO, Fish and Vujacic (shudder!) can all play a little PG.

Other thoughts:

Artest + fodder for LO does not make any sense for us.

Any chance we could get the Knicks to bite on a Walton+Radman+Mihm+Ariza offer for Marbury?

Just kidding..though the 20M expiring contract may come in handy around the trade deadline :)

No to Posey - dude ain't worth 5.8M per year - if it's more than 2 years.

I like Josh Childress - if we can get him for half the MLE, that would be sweet!

I've been on the stand pat platform this summer, but if an Ariza+Mihm+Farmar for Artest deal were available I'd do it if I were Mitch. The biggest issue with such a deal is getting rid of Farmar, who has shown potential. However the Lakers have three picks in the '09 draft, which makes the blow softer especially if they get an inexpensive, competent PG to backup Fisher in the interim.

Ariza would be compelling for the Kings as he's cheap and has upside, plus the Kings don't have other true SF on their current roster. Mihm is just filler at this point, anything he could give to any team would be a bonus.

Both teams have similar goals in trading Odom or Artest. Both want to tie a bad contract to one of the players to help reduce their future burden. Knowing this, for either team to accept a bad contract would not be fiscally responsible. So that's not likely. That would boil the deal down to expiring contracts and potential. The Kings don't have much use for Odom other than his expiring contract. Both the Kings and Artest have collectively burned their bridge. This trade would even benefit the Kings further by shaving $1 million off their 2008 payroll.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/
features/traderesult?players=
549~1016~2027~25~2755~
2382&teams=17~23~23~13~17~13&te=&cash=

i would love to have this trade..we can get artest and devin harris and unload fluke vlad and mihm

check this trade

I made the post on Saturday......LO for Ron Ron. If it's there for Mitch and the boys, they should pull the trigger on this one. As I said on Sat, Ron gives us more versatility than LO when you really think about it. Defensive stopper, natural 3, who can score inside and out and he gives us a competitive physicality that we really lack. He's the running partner Kobe really wants and needs. His attitude problem shouldn't be a problem on a winning team with a coach like Phil. Phil can handle guys like Artest in his sleep. Most importantly, when it comes down to winning championships, which position do we need to have strength, toughness and physicality at? Well, think about the best players in the league...Lebron, Paul Pierce, etc... Would be nice to have Artest making their lives miserable if/when we face them in the championships to come. Bring on Ron Ron. LO, hate to see you go, but Artest is the right fit for this team going forward.

Even if I were crazy enough to trade Odom for Artest (which I'm not nearly crazy enough to do) I wouldn't do it now.

It would be sheer, pure, 100% unadulterated madness to not give the Bynum/Gasol/Odom trifecta some run. At least half a season.

Try to add a tough guy with the mid level then let this team play together some. Remember, Pau has never even had a training camp with these guys.

Wes

I wanna keep Ariza, but I guess Farmar could go since there is Karl, Yue, and Crawford in the mix. But how about Luke Walton, Bill Walton for Artest? what? why are you looking at me like that?

exhelodrvr

Obviously you like the job Phil has done and that's fine. I like PJ's coaching overall but he's got some defensive problems in his philosophies. He only talks about defensive energy and that's it.
What about the principles and discipline to be taught and practiced???? Popovich does this religiously. Van Gundy and his disciples do this religiously. Doc Rivers gets it and buys into it.

You can't say that Boston's personel is just sooo much more. We weren't out there with sometimey "HEARTED" Kwame. We had Gasol, Fisher, and even Ariza along with our old core roster to help KOBE.

There just was not a commitment to a defensive gameplan because we did not practice in a repetitive way all season that DEFENSE wins like BOSTON and the BIG EAST does.

Phil Jackson thinks the TRIANGLE offense is like RUNNING THE FOOTBALL in the NFL. You control the ball and clock to keep your defense off the field and wear a team down. Well, you're not running a TRIANGLE against the BEST overload whereever KOBE goes ZONE DEFENSE in the NBA.
Houston won 22 straight with the same principles and a sorry roster.
So don't tell me about talent only.

I like Phil just like you but we need to hold his royal PJ-ness ACCOUNTABLE!!!!

Long TIme Laker Fan
Good points on subbing Bynum/Ariza for Garnett/Posey.
Obviously that would have been an impact in the Finals.

However, Ariza played in the Finals and don't tell me just his timing was off. Phil Jackson's rotations baffle the heck out of me as Ariza was not put on Paul enough and when he was he got abused because of our team defensive principles which were SOFT.
What happened to a "no layup rule" or just plain "packing it in"
Phil packed it in back in 2004 against Tony Parker and the Spurs to sweep last 4 games because he had the biggest human on earth standing by the basket.

He had great defense with Scottie and Mike.
Well they are not here and we pay Phil to come up with defensive strategy and coach/teach/repetitively enforce DEFENSE.
It is not happening.

I also can't believe you mentioned Ariza and Gerald Wallace in the same breath or Luke Walton.
Gerald Wallace would be an incredible TURBO boost to the Lakers lineup.

As I said keep Micheal Jordan in your FAV FIVE, Mitch Kupchak starting in December!!

The ODOM for WALLACE cloud should sit over the season starting in the early winter!

Dan,

I think if for some crazy reason the Magic are giving away their good players, I'd rather have Turkoglu. Turkoglu is a better passer. He also has championship experience playing for the Spurs. He's also less injury prone. Borderline 20 5 5 guy. He should have been an All-Star this year instead of Joe Johnson.

His contract is probably less, but he probably gives a little more so he'd be difficult to pry free.

I think you have a strong point about our offense being the engine to guide our defense, at least to some extent. I hope that's a personality change the team works on by the time next year's playoffs roll around.

Either Turkoglu or Lewis would be a huge offensive upgrade at the 3. Both shoot well from outside and that would help us out tremendously.

BC,
Just wondering where you heard about the Maggette to the Lakers rumor? AK / BK, have either of you heard any Maggette to the Lakers rumors?

No Trades and No Free Agent Acquisitions

I've seen a lot of trade scenarios and free agent possibilities being discussed here. I get the feeling the Lakers are not looking to get anyone new for next year. I get the feeling they will try to sign Sasha and Turiaf, and if they do, we won't see any new players. It's nice to think about getting an Artest or a Posey or a Maggette, but I don't think the front office is trying to get anyone. I think they believe that with Bynum and Ariza healthy they don't need any new players. And I think the salary cap is a prime consideration in this.

I agree that we need another defensive oriented player like Artest or Posey, but I don't think we're going to see it happen. I don't think they are really considering making a move like that.

I just hope a healthy Bynum and Ariza can give us the added defense we need.

John

It's not going to happen so it's not worth talking about.

No.
No Ron Ron.
Not now.
Not mid-season.
Not ever.
Stop it.
Grr.

-bozz-

I do *NOT* give up Farmar & Ariza.

I trade LO for Artest in a heartbeat. The reasoning, as I've said before, is this:

LO can't play SF against the better SF's in the league. He's too slow. Pau
is a better PF than LO. Bynum is a true C, whereas Pau is not. Defense
wins championships. Artest is a better defensive SF than Odom will be.

A question, which has not been answered is, how much will Ariza improve over
the summer in terms of offense and defense? If Ariza can reach 2nd team
all NBA defense this coming season, then stand pat. I'm ok with Lamar being
6th man of the year. This is a problem for Turiaf because now we have 3 PF's
and he won't get enough time. *sigh*

If Mihm and MBenga are on the team, then he can't get time at the C spot either.
I really hope that everybody is working hard over the summer on their defense.

Staples 24 -

Kwame Brown isn't soft?

You're kidding, right?

I'm with Laker Tom and others on this issue - we should stand pat. NO NEED to break up a team that just went to the NBA Finals. Remember, the C's were the superior team last season. Let's give our squad a full healthy season together to that we can see what they can do.

Ever since Artest went into the stands to start beating up fans, I cannot envision him being a positive influence on any team.

Look at the Kings, they suck.

I'd keep Ariza and Farmar.

Kwame Brown did SUCK at offensive rebounds. That's certainly true.

As for the legendary Ron Ron, Sacramento is the best place for him (or Oklahoma City). Put him in a big city like Los Angeles, and expect him to go bananas again.

Lamar Odom is just getting over his long, painful distracting history. Let's not confuse it with the return of Ron Ron.

Leave him in Sacramento.

Remember. Phil Jackson is overly confident when it comes to reforming players.

Remember Isiah Rider? Phil was ALL for that and look how that turned out.

Just say no to Ron Ron.

GO LAKERS!

NO, NO, and HELL NO.

Artest can save the drama for his mama. We don't need it!

I get AK's thought on LO possibly being able to keep Artest under control. AK, you make some valid points. Problem is, LO can't keep his own head in the game(s) at times. How can we expect him to help manage a time bomb like Artest? We can't.

Also, I've seen some "well Phil handled Dennis Rodman" thoughts from some people. Phil had MJ and Scotty Pippen to help keep Looney Tunes Rodman in line. Kobe is on his way to garnering that type of respect. He is just not there, yet. Derrick gets tons of respect from the youngsters. But I don't see Ron Ron listening listening to D Fish Fish.

I'm dying to see how this team performs with all of its pieces healty. Dear Lord, please give us that gift. Then if it's not working, make a move in February.

bozz & cali

I'm with you and all the others who say "No Testes - not now, not ever". The last thing we need is a head case like RonRon.

Stand pat, Mitch, and let's see where these guys can get when healthy.

Trade Odom for Shane Battier and some fillers.

I'd take Sla-va Med-ve-den-ko! (as Stephen A. Jackson would say) over Ron Ron's crazy ass at this point. Hell, what's Mark Madsen doing, someone call that funky white boy up. Pair him with Ronny and we got the best cheerleaders this side of Dallas.

Keep the team as it is. Re-sign Sasha and Ronny. Pick up a veteran 4 if possible. Get healthy.

No Ronny.
Not now.
Not ever.

-bozz-

Bring RonRon Back? Humph! Why not bring me back. My calves are still magnificent.

Morning Guys! Long Post.

Resign Turiaf and Vujacic.

If we stand pat: Coaching staff needs a revamp with match up tactics, use of bench players, timeouts, and DEFENSIVE philosophy.

Move LO7 to the bench if he can't contribute at both ends as a 3 mismatch.

Find a way to trade or package either Walton/Vlad. Or Luke is the 13th-14th man, and Vlad is just a 3 point specialist if he is hot.

I share the opinion that we need a banger in the inside.

I like Posey not because he is this defensive stalwart, but when he plays d he plays hard and won't quit on the play. His shooting and experience is a major plus. And I like Artest or Posey for maybe 2-3 years tops.

Positive Spin:
I hope Ariza works with Craig Hodges for his shooting.
I hope Vlad will float less on defense if we keep him, but the hard part there is when the best player in the league who is your team captain gambles himself quite a bit.
I hope Turiaf calms down and works on post up moves with the Cap.
Actually, I hope Cap works with Bynum, Gasol, Mihm and assuming we resign Turiaf and Mbenga.
Jordan stays hungry and drive to the hole. Defense.
Karl learns to play both guard positions.
Luke while I have given up on you, the Denver series gave me some hope. Jump shot and lateral defense boi!
If we trade LO, I hope it is for a great confident and decisive player.

Here is an except from the San Antonio Express regarding the Lakers interest in Kurt Thomas if we don't resign Turiaf.

"Miami and the Los Angeles Lakers have expressed interest in Thomas, though the Spurs could offer more money than either of those teams. In all likelihood, the Lakers would partake in the hunt for Thomas only if their bid to retain Ronny Turiaf falls short.

Wherever Thomas lands, he almost certainly will have to take less than the $8 million he earned last season.

Thomas declined to discuss specifics of his negotiations with the Spurs, other than to say he didn't know if the two sides would reach an agreement before the league's moratorium on free-agent signings is lifted Wednesday.

“That's been between the Spurs and my agent,” Thomas said.

Thomas' agent, Jerry Hicks, could not be reached Monday.

Meanwhile, all remained quiet on the Maggette front.

The biggest piece of the Spurs' free-agent puzzle this offseason, Maggette has been pondering interest from a horde of salivating suitors since opting out of his contract with the Los Angeles Clippers last week.

The Spurs, owning a $5.8 million mid-level exception with Maggette's name on it, are considered the favorites to land him.

However, Maggette has received similar overtures from Boston, Utah, Orlando, Detroit, Cleveland and New Orleans. Maggette also could draw interest from Philadelphia and Golden State, two teams with salary cap space to outbid the Spurs.

The rest of the Spurs' free-agent picture should begin to clarify once Maggette makes his decision."

Have a great one guys!

LO for Battier?

Absolutely Not! Battier can't guard 4's or 5's; L.O. does that AND still is able to guard some 3's reasonably well.

Now...if Shane is available as a FA....

Hopefully Lamar is in a gym somewhere working on his jumper. If Lamar can add a consistent jumper then Lamar is all this team needs, Lamar's jumper would be such an asset to this team.

This team already has enough stars. Lamar is the perfect fit to be the 3/4 option while occasionally being the leading scorer. With Ron Artest on this team you would see him start jacking up a crazy amount of shots and ruining this great Laker chemistry.

Lamar had a great second half to the season and I look for him to keep that momentum going in to next year. Sure he has a bad game here and there but so does everyone else.

I'm looking for Lamar to have a huge coming out season next year. Maybe not all start status, but pretty close, maybe he will be considered and all star snub. And that would be perfect because we don't need 4 all stars on one team.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

NO Trade.
Keep LO. We are lucky to have him, truthfully.
He'll be the best 4th option and could be the best 6th man of the year if they choose to use him off the bench.
Artest, only as a FA.
This is the Team. See San Antonio's lineup for the last 5 years and how many championships.
I know it's sexy to trade, but what we have can win a championship.

at one point, everybody wanted Jason Kidd, everybody knew he was old, later he went to Dallas and suddenly everybody discovered that he was OLD!

everybody wants Artest. Everybody knows the dude is crazy. Do we want to discover how crazy this dude is with him on our roster or would it be much better to watch him implode from afar? You want to put him in LOS ANGELES with his idiot rap label and you don't expect him to have a "personal crisis" at least twice during the season? This dude is so misguided, I believe he would actually try to take time off in the playoffs if he believed it was an important moment for his rap career.

also, the new player everybody wants is Corey Maggette. The Kwammus must ask, HAVE YOU GUYS EVEN SEEN MAGGETTE PLAY???

no, not just look at his stats, HAVE YOU SEEN THE DUDE PLAY???

We've already got one former Clipper we gave the MLE to who can barely play defense in Radmanovic, now... you want to get someone who has NO MOTIVATION to play any defense at all???

Yowsers...

also, we are NOT trading Ariza, so dump any and all fantasies involving trades of Ariza, if there is a pecking order below Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and Fisher, certainly Ariza is on that next level and heavily involved in their plans for the next 3-5 years.

what else? The Kwammus rests his case for now...

Despite all my posts critical of Lamar Odom, there's no way I would move him for Ron Artest. Nor would I give up any of the Lakers promising youngsters like Farmar and Ariza.

Artest is not a game changer like Garnett or Ray Allen. He's a negative force that would be detrimental to the Lakers.

The Lakers "as is" will be greater than the sum of its parts next season. Teams like the Spurs and Pistons have shown over the years that stability pays off. The Lakers had one of their best seasons in years in part due to great chemistry. Artest would disrupt that flow.

In principle, I agree with Staples24 that the Lakers are soft, but Artest is not a solution. I agree with some posters that the Lakers under Phil Jackson have never been a great defensive team. I like the suggestion that Michael Cooper be brought in as the assistant coach in charge of Defense. When it comes to the roster, I'm against change for change's sake. I think "as is" the team will improve simply with maturation.

Let's stand pat. Go Lakers!

Personally, I don't see why GS would go for that trade. The only player of any value at all is Trevor Ariza. Mihm, has not shown any signs of returning to his old form which was not super to begin with. I don't see Farmar as being anything but a situational backup point guard, at least in the immediate future. It seems like he has pushed his game to the limit and can't really get much better. I'd love to see Coby Karl getting more playing time, as I think his potential far exceeds Farmar's, so I would go for the trade in a heartbeat. As for LO, I think you will see him become an even better player, next year. Injuries have held him back, but he seems healthy enough to spend some time practicing his jump shot during the off season.

Roger

Ugh.

Everyone, can you please stop with the pipe dreams of packaging Luke and Vlad for a stud defensive stopper. Luke’s contract is terrible and we’re not the only ones who know that Vlad disappears 90 percent of the time, other teams see this too, so to think that we can ship them off for, let’s say, Battier, or Artest, or Gerald Wallace, or Marion, or whoever, we’re just kidding ourselves. And besides, do you really think Sacramento will be willing to trade arguably their best player to a hated team such as the Lakers? Why not try and get Amare from the Suns while we’re at it.

Posey? Since when is he a defensive stopper? I don’t remember anyone even mentioning him on D prior to this past year, it’s all part of the KG effect, Posey was marginal on D prior to his stint with the Cs. Plus, the dude’s getting somewhat old and really isn’t really that much on offense, not that we need a ton more.

It’s great to dream about some of these trades, but let’s face it, they’re most likely not going to happen. Why not wait and give the Three Towers a chance and see what we got. We made it to the Finals without two of our three best defenders and with a couple of plays/calls going our way, would’ve won the whole shebang-a-bang. Re-sign those that need to be re-signed and we’ll be okay, really.

Just sit tight and enjoy the summer y’all.

-bozz-

Since we are talking CRAZY trade scenarios:

Chris Mihm for the Space Continuum. We must go 88 mph.

Trevor Ariza for Michael Cooper.

Vlad and Luke for Rick Fox and James Worthy.

Coby Karl for Elgin Baylor.

And if you still want to get rid of the developing Farmar that has 2 years of triangle experience: Farmar for Jerry West.

If You sign me I promise to take off only 1 week a year to promote my Rap Album. If you don't
sign me I will do my Free-Style Wrap about Phil Jackson. Hey Phil tell me how KG's ring taste!

Charles,

“Vlad and Luke for Rick Fox and James Worthy.”

If you want to talk crazy, try Vlad and Luke for Rick James and Jeff Foxworthy, eh?

Cold blooded yo.

-bozz-

Sorry folks but Luke Walton has some serious insidious and nasty information over my head.Walton has threaten me with the national inquire and smear my proud name if i try to cut or trade the bum.

Charles, I am the SPACE CONTINUUM!

As BD said, Lamar will not get the rebounds at the 3, he can't handle quick SF's, and he can't shoot
He also can't handle the rock.
Lamar is a tweener at every position.
We need a true SF, Ariza is not the answer and Vlade is a poor man's Peja.


LAMAR STARRING AS THE SCARECROW IN THE WIZARD OF OZ (sing it baby)

I COULD BE A BETTER BALLER
IF MY HEAD WAS ONLY SMALLER
IT JUST GETS IN THE WAY
dodo dodo dodo

I WOULD FLY THROUGH THE AIR WITH EASE
AND DUNK IT WITH AUTHORITY
IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN

I COULD BE A BETTER SHOOTER
BUT I'D RATHER BE AT HOOTERS
DRINKING BEFORE A GAME
dodo dodo dodo

I WOULD MAKE ALL MY 3 POINT SHOTS
BUT HANGOVERS BLUR MY VISION LOTS
IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN

THEY SAY I COULD BE MAGIC
BUT THAT WOULD BE JUST TRAGIC
TO DRIBBLE MY LIFE AWAY
dodo dodo dodo

SO I'LL TOKE AND TOKE THE CHRONIC
WHO CARES IF IT MAKES ME MORONIC
IT'S ONLY JUST A GAME

My vote is a no AK;

I would possibly consider it if in addition the Lakers could land Posey as a replacement for the loss of Ariza at a back-up SF. But even then, the loss of Farmar would be very painful given the fact that I feel he is not only on his way to becoming an outstanding PG in this league. But his loss right after giving up a promising PG in Crittenton last year would be very tough to swallow indeed.

However, I feel the real opportunity to acquire Artest is past us now when he chose not to opt-out. Thereby missing a golden opportunity to play for a championship contender along with his childhood running buddy Lamar. By permitting the Lakers to get him for their MLE without having to deal with a trade scenario like this where they end up having to depart with some of their significant players like Trevor and Farmar.

No, I’m for resigning Sasha and Turiaf (if reasonable) and bringing in a savvy veteran like Posey to play the 3 if possible. But for at most, 3 years at the full MLE, with maybe a fourth year option. And keep the present squad together.

Perhaps Posey can be swayed to take less by the promise of a starting job at the SF.

Just a thought… :)

Ling time reader, first time blogger (virgin)

the guys' name is Ron. not Ron Ron what are we inn grade elementary? some of you are so lame at least in my home town they know and follow the lakers more better. why is everybody an expert gm? let mitch do his job and he got us to the finals. back off him.,

we will only get sascha or ronny but only one. don't expect many upgrades but back off mitch. next year we will won boston. stop hating and suport the team, dang!

ding how in prattville

Do not trade LO for Artest.
Let's see how Ariza develops before we make any decisions.
Our team is fine.

-bozz-

I'll match you with Prince, the Revolution and Charlie Murphy.

Apolonia and Vanity as the backup PG's.

What?

"F yo' couch."

Posey is already old, who knows how many tree lines he has going inside his body? Put that dude in a starters role and he may physically destruct like Luke Walton does. Posey should probably play MAX 20 some odd minutes/game to remain effective.

I'm surprised somebody would say Ariza is not the answer. Did you see how well he fit in when he played? The guy moves like a cat on defense, all he needs to do is develop a serviceable jump shot and bang! he's our Raja Bell. Again, we don't need scoring from the SF, just the threat of hitting an outside shot if left open.

I'm betting Radmanovic starts the season as the starter at SF and Ariza eventually takes that spot.

Benjamin - funny you bring up Stephen Jackson - I have seen Capt. Jack play a few times this year here in SF.

Yes, he's smart but how smart do you need to be when all you do is run up and down and try to put up 110 points a game? And together (Ron & Capt) - weren't smart enough to make a talented Pacers team advance anywhere but they did get a lot of suspensions and flagrants.

Trading LO after 4 years in PJ's system would force us to lose a LOT of the intangibles LO brings each night. Think about the rebounds alone - LO kills Ron on the defensive boards. Ron's inside game isn't that good and he would shoot when given the chance. We don't need LO to score we need the rebounds, inside game and passing skill to get out in transition.

Ron's passing is good - but I will take LO's over Ron and Ron certainly can't play all 5 positions like LO can. And given his natural position, it would take him at least a year to be really effective in the triangle. MVP doesn't want to wait another year and LO can certainly adjust - he has already done so.

And we would give up height as well. I think we all agree LO's length & height are far more beneficial to us and pose more matchup problems than Ron.

I understand the need to pick up a defensive specialistbut the Lakers don't need this simmering pot of water - one never knows when it's going to boil over...

I thought these were interesting when trying to look objectively at AK's proposal:

www.shotsports.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Artest
http://www.dailybreeze.com/sportscolumnists/ci_9410610

Not many good "basketball" accomplishments in Ron-ron's wiki resume.

I still pass on this trade and hold out until February!

GO LAKERS!

Kwame Brown was booed by his hometown fans. He shall not wear the Purple and Gold again.

Just say no to the biggest bust in in NBA history.

bozz - agree with pretty much everything you've said. as for slava, i doubt we will ever see him in uniform again... his back's just never been right after his surgery. madsen's also been battling injury problems the past couple of years. there's always the birdman though! 10-12 minutes of dunks and blocks per game at the 4... and entertainment galore, haha!

forget all the talk about bringing in another 3 - all we need is another backup banger at the 4 and we're solid.

Posted by: Charles | July 08, 2008 at 09:24 AM

Wuuuuuuuut, more than a one liner.


"F yo' couch."

Posted by: Charles | July 08, 2008 at 10:13 AM

Oh wait never mind.
I had to say it.
I'm Charles, I was having too much fun.

Vlad

Remember this footage? The summer before we signed you?

http://tinyurl.com/3ynsun

Ding How in Prattville,

While we're on the topic of names, Mr. Vujacic's first name is Sasha, not Sacha.

dave m,

Most def, I feel like a solid big man is much more important than yet another SF taking up minutes.

Charles,

What can I say? Nothing beats that starting line-up.

"I been kicked outta better homes than this!"

Ah, good times...

-bozz-

david m
since wehn did you become gm? i already said that mitch should be left alone. he got us to the finals already man. we will know more by tomorow or thursday. dang;

ding how in prattville

Stand pat and see how the bynum, gasol, LO thing works out. We can always make a trade next year if needed.

Unless of course we can get someone with big calves.

Ron Ron is a head case. I like his game but the downside is to big and LIKELY.

yah thats what i said man

ding how in prattville

the Kwammus was indeed hurt by the booing but believes that now everybody understands that the hands, the brutal hands will never change so what you see is what you get, no more expectations...

the Kwammus would be pleased to come back and serve as the backup Center to the MAN, Andrew Bynum. And all this chatter about how Kwame doesn't work on his game and this will somehow rub off on Bynum, Please! If anything, we've seen how the Kwammus' disaster of a career motivated Bynum at a young age to become much, much more. Bring back Kwame Brown to remind Andrew Bynum EVERY DAY why he should work out so hard and try to improve his game because if not... he will get booed like the Kwammus was for not fully exploring his potential... The Kwammus is a good soul, he just has those brutal hands... those godawful hands...

it's probably all been said...the only thing I will point out is the lakers as they are have as good of a chance as any to take a title next year...fully healthy and they would probably have to be the on paper favourites.

Bear in mind that they are young and can contend for years to come as they are and will presumably only improve...

Then take into account that Artest is going to have a 2 -3 season expiry date (and will be wanting big money) almost no matter how well it goes in the meantime...

Then take into account that we aren't even sure if either of AK's proposed trades would improve the team

Suddenly you must conclude - NO WAY.Theres way more to lose than to gain.Time to sit pat and see how next year plays out before considering any major moves.

Ding How in Prattville,

Jagshemash or Salamatsyz Ba. I doubt you are blogging virgin. Posting is superb inglish. Blog is fog for your brilliance. Remember, God-Man-Horse-Dog-Woman-Rat and small Kratsui...

AK - what happened to my post?

Eric M. are my Calves big enough for you?

Justanother,

Language. You can't just sub in a "$" and use the rest of the offending word. Times rules. Not ours. Sorry about that.

AK

Clayton Bixby

Don't pose as me. Please.

Posted by: Charles | July 08, 2008 at 09:24 AM

btw Charles, I agree with everything you wrote on that post (soft power). I also found it rather pleasant to read (soft power). I enjoyed it waaaaay more than your BLAH BLAH have a good one posts(soft power).

 
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