Ron Ron for LO? Or both? Or stand pat?

AK,
"osing Ariza (increased minutes for Vlad and/or Walton, both of whom struggled last season), Farmar (who doesn't really have a replacement) and even Mihm (if theoretically healthy) could hurt the rotation more than Artest helps it. "

Your first point there is not valid, because if you have Artest there would not be increased minutes for Vlad and Luke - the opposite would be true. Agree with your second point, although they could sign a PG with the MLE, it would be hard to find one with the potential of Farmar .Losing Mihm is not an issue, because if the team has Artest, then Odom is playing some combinaiton of PF and SF, both off the bench, which leaves Gasol available for backing up C, with Turiaf as his backup.

If you keep Odom, though, the team does not get "full value" from Artest, Gasol, and Odom, because there aren't enough minutes. There is also the issue of having to work two new players into the triangle, (Artest and a presumed new PG) as well as getting Odom used to a new role and Gasol used to a new position in the offense. I don't make that trade.

I would opt to keep LO over Ron Ron but would take both if possible.

LO is versitile like few others and Ron Ron would be kept in check if tantrum city breaks out, LO will still be here to take minutes given to RA. Therefore chemistry issues are minimized.

I say stand pay with what we've got. Despite our ridiculous injury problems all season and into the playoffs, we ended up with the best record in the Western Conference and made it to the NBA Finals. There's no good reason to believe the Lakers won't even be better next season.

Let's see what this team can do over a full season bwfore doing anything drastic. Why gamble with Chemistry and trade for Artest now, when he probably could be had for nothing next season? Let's not make the same mistake the Mavs made.

Ex,

""osing Ariza (increased minutes for Vlad and/or Walton, both of whom struggled last season), Farmar (who doesn't really have a replacement) and even Mihm (if theoretically healthy) could hurt the rotation more than Artest helps it. " Your first point there is not valid, because if you have Artest there would not be increased minutes for Vlad and Luke - the opposite would be true."

Actually, you caught a typo (thanks). It was supposed to be "increased backup minutes" for Vlad or Walton, since I was picturing Ariza stealing a lot from both.

"Agree with your second point, although they could sign a PG with the MLE, it would be hard to find one with the potential of Farmar .Losing Mihm is not an issue, because if the team has Artest, then Odom is playing some combinaiton of PF and SF, both off the bench, which leaves Gasol available for backing up C, with Turiaf as his backup."

I see what you're saying about Mihm, but that's also with the presumption of everyone healthy and out of foul trouble. But either way, your point makes sense.

AK

Corey Maggette to the Lakers!

Hot rumor, Maggette has final three teams he wants to play for next year. Celtics, Lakers and Spurs; not necessary in that order. Corey's Agent and the Lakers have been talking and the Lakers are waiting to see if Sasha accepts the offer they propose. Word is; the Lakers are expecting other teams to offer Sasha more money than the Lakers and that would open for the Lakers to offer Corey. The Lakers would like to keep Sasha but they are not willing to give him the mid-level excempt. More news will be posted in the near future.

Oh great. With all the Ron-mania that's been flooding recent threads, you guys just had to invite more.

Meanwhile, my own vision quest - that being the signing of Chris Birdman Andersen - is gaining no blog traction whatsoever.

I wasn't expecting universal love on this one but I figured that at least you, the K-brothers, would see the true entertainment value of such a move.

Meanwhile, Andersen's meeting with the Celtics. They wanted to sign him after his reinstatement but the Hornets still held his rights and exercised them. Now that the Birdman's a FA, the Celtics are trying again to land him.

Mike T might argue that the dude's got ridiculously skinny legs but it makes no nevermind to me - he's probably still the best high-fly big man in the league. I say we sign him for veteran's minimum and let him shred for 10 minutes a game.

As far as Boston goes, the Birdman was born in Long Beach. Don't worry, he'd come back.

The idea of Ron Ron is intriguing. But I just don't know if there's any benefit to dipping our toes in the rough waters of Ron Artest. Or rather I'm not adventurous/crazy enough to do so lol.

Plus we would lose a talented and could possibly be a better player long range (for us) in Trevor Ariza.

Now LO? This is tougher. I think some would argue (I myself go back and forth on this topic), that LO just does not fit. Has not fit. And what he lacks in the mental aspect, or rather the "work ethic" aspect...is just not something that spells championship (esp considering he is one of our leaders). On the other hand, Ron Ron when focused on the game is arguably one of the league's best defenders, and he has shown a mental toughness.

But at the end of the day, I still wouldn't do it. Not for LO, not for Vlad, not for Mihm. We have ourselves great chemistry; chemistry that could turn into something fabulous. Bringing in Ron Ron will surely mess with that. And while we do desperately need an enforcer/main defender, I just don't think this is worth it. Unfortunately this is not Dennis Rodman. Early Dennis Rodman. And last I saw, PJ couldn't work his magic on late Dennis Rodman lol.

Just say no to Ron-ron.

Also as it pertains to LO, you never know this might be the year when that lightbulb goes on and he becomes an all-star lol, jk.

Go Lakers!

Just a thought!

Kings, Bucks & Lakers

Milwaukee wants to get rid of Charlie Villanueva.

1st: Kings Get Charlie Villanueva and Desmond Mason = (Exp)

Bucks get rid of Charlie Villanueva and get Walton close friend to Richard Jefferson. along with Mihm (Exp)

Lakers get Ron Artest while keeping L.O.

Trade Idea

2 team Trade Idea

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?
players=25~549~2027~518~2792&teams=13~15~15~
23~23&te=&cash=

Well Sac would want to include Shareef
then this trade but not likely.

3 Team Trade

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?
players=3~25~549~1016~2027~518~2792&teams=13
~13~15~23~15~23~23&te=&cash=

just ideas..... thanks

Also AK/BK you guys are such slackers, how dare you post a new blog? Don't you know you should be outside of Sashas house trying to figure out what he is going to do? if he gets a new hair cut, I want to know. waxes his eyebrows, I want to know, runs over kitten on the road, I want to know. Did you not get the memo? It's Sasha Watch 2008!

Aloha AK

Considering the 1st 5 games came down to the wire without Andrew or Trevor I say pass on Artest. Adding a healthy Bynum for me would be enough. The NBA is all about match ups and Andrew would have changed everything.

Perkins would not have been able to push out a much Stronger, longer Bynum like he did Pau. But the biggest plus would have been Pau at the 4. The only game KG had to guard Pau was Pau's best. He had 19 points on 6-10 shooting 12 boards and 6 assists. And the bigger issues is KG would have to stay home on Pau. Pau is a natural face up player with a good mid range J so KG would not be able to cheat back into the paint like he did last time. Of course thats all good for Kobe. He would have much more room to drive to the hoop.

On the defensive end, we would have both andrew and pau to erase defensive mistakes with a block. And again more importantly Lamar would be guarding Pierce. Now you brought this up before but what is lost in Lamars inconsistant offense is the fact that he is a pretty good defender. Pierce had a cake walk with Vlade and Luke guarding him. He wouldnt have hoisted the MVP trophy with Lamar on him.

And of course we forget that Trevors is a very good defender. He had just got back and hadnt played any significant minutes since January. Its unfair that everyone suddenly came to the conclusion that we needed this huge upgrade under those circumstances.

Finally, I maintain that defense didnt lose this series. With the exception of our game 6 implosion we played enough D. It was our offensive execution that killed us. With a healthy Andrew that all changes.

MH

LO for Artest? Absolutely positively do this deal! The criticisms of Artest are overblown. He didn't "destroy" Sacramento. To the contrary, he was a good teammate on a crappy team that showed him no love.

Do you realize what kind of lineup that gives the Lakers? You have 3 legitimate allstarst (Kobe, Pau & Artest) with a possible allstar center joining the fray. By themselves Kobe, Artest and Fish would be a fantastic permiter defenisve team, but to give those guys out front the protection of TWO seven footers down low? Awesome.

Look, Lamar is a good guy but he is not a champion. Tell me how this guy still can't use his right hand? The same inner forces that tell him it is ok to hit the clubs in LA during the Finals are what keeps him from taking that incredible potential and making the most of it. Any way you slice it, there is no way that a left handed 6'10" guy with great ballhandling skills should boast a career scoring high of barely over 30 points (playing on some crappy teams, no less). He's never been an allstar, and that is unforgivable for a guy with his talent.

Artest may have had his issues in the past (and remember, those issues are in the PAST, and on bad teams), but Lamar has his issues every year. Do you remember how often Lamar had a smile on his face in the Finals when the Lakers were losing? That's both predictable and unacceptable.

Artest helps LA spread the floor better, which will be critical to the success of the Pau/Bynum/Bryant trio. We've already seen how teams will defend next year's team (wiht L.O.), and it is called a zone defense. Without a consistent jumper, Lamar will be left with lots of room to hold the ball and stare at the defense. There's no need to guard him on the perimeter, because even if he makes a shot (or two or three) there is simply no threat that he will consistentely take (much less make) that shot throughout a game.

With Lamar, I'd say the Lakers are a great team, and even possibly a championship team. With Artest, they are an unbeatable team that is unguardable on offense and a defensive nightmare with their perimeter defenders and their unparalleled length. So, please, do this deal!

Miguel S.,

Nice and creative thoughts...

I don't think the Bucks would want Puke. Lakers might have to throw in Ariza and Farmer instead of Puke.

Why not just wait until February before making any decisions?

BLOG-SYNC-THINK SAYS STAND PAT…

Looks like we all agree with your original assessment, AK. There is no need or urgency to trade Lamar right now or to break up our great team chemistry by trading Trevor, Jordan, and Chris or anybody not named Walton or Radmanovic for Artest or anybody else until we see how things work out with everybody healthy and starting together.

So say me, ex, Psyched Laker Girl, Happy, sclakerfan, Faith, and michael h on this thread and many others on earlier threads. Case closed. Let’s move on.

Next year begins the Era of the Beast.

Tom

You guys are nuts.

Since we have Bynum and Gasol at the 5 and 4 why would you want to keep a very weak minded person who can't shoot or play good D at the 3? If he plays the 3 his rebounds will go down, so are you keeping him for his scoring? I didn't think so.

Give me a True SF in Artest to cover the Lebrons and Pierces of the league anyday over Odom.

You add him Artest to this team, you not only got a lot tougher but you almost make it not fair for the NBA. I don't think they lose 82-0.

GET ARTEST BUSS!

ARTEST FOR LO EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK..give me a tough question.

BD

Also as it pertains to LO, you never know this might be the year when that lightbulb goes on and he becomes an all-star lol, jk.

Go Lakers!

Posted by: Faith | July 07, 2008 at 10:23 PM

Thanks for making a joke when you say that. After four years, it gets kind of painful to read that. You have no idea what a relief your j/k lol was.

Pass on RonRon with or without LO. But while I like LO and his game, I don't see any way he's a Laker next Spring.

Even if Bynum, Gasol, and Odom are able to play well together, the result would be so much congestion in the lane that it takes away Kobe's drives to the basket and making him a jump shooter. That is moving backwards.

But the tryout at SF won't last past the New Year, relegating LO to playing PF. And there are not enough minutes to go around for three prime-time big men. Even if you assume that Mihm doesn't play and Turiaf plays minimal minutes (10 min/game), then one of the three (Bynum, Gasol, and Odom) ends up playing less than 30 min/game - and more likely less than 20 min/game if they want a cohesive unit.

What the Lakers need is more and better outside shooting. The deal that makes the most sense is LO for Rashard Lewis. Lewis doesn't solve any of the defense or toughness issues, but those will always be problems until the offense works properly. And Lewis he helps get the offense back on track.

Thanks AK for giving us something to talk about again while we are waiting for news.

Its fun to talk about Artest but we all tend to only remember the good Artest.

Bad Artest is very risky.
Bad Artest is walking on thin ice with the NBA.
Bad Artest beats his wife and is suspended 7 games. David Stern says if it happens again, he can expect much more time off, much more. How can Odom prevent that from happening?
Bad Artest takes games off because he just didn't feel like playing.

Mitch made it very clear, Lamar Odom for Artest before was not worth the risk. Why would it now be okay?

All indications are we are going forward with this line up. The Big Experiment will happen. If it doesn't work, Dr Buss needs to reduce the Lakers humongous payroll. Odoms expiring contract can open the door to bring the Lakers salary down to a manageable level.

The Lakers core unit was tough enough to win the Western Conference, inspite of what our resident racist commenter thinks. Next year, add to the squad Bynum and Ariza, give them the entire year like Boston had, and the Lakers will improve their toughness. A committed group to team defense, will perhaps be enough to prevail this time.

Our biggest weakness, according to Kobe was rebounding. When Bynum was playing nobody beat the Lakers on the boards. Bynum intimidates. Bynum playing with Pau, Odom, and Kobe will dominate.

Nobody here can argue against this point. That the Lakers team chemistry was the best its been in years. Artest will not improve it and will not fit in well. One rotten apple will ruin the whole barrel, its not the other way around.

There is the good Artest and the bad Artest. But when it comes to the Lakers, the No Artest is the way to go.

Leo,

I disagree that Artest was on bad teams. His Pacers team (the year before his foray into the crowd at the Palace) was in the Eastern Conference Finals. They had Tinsley (healthy), Reggie Miller (older, but could still shoot), Jermaine O'Neal (healthy), and Stephen Jackson.

I think Ron's issues with Rick Carlisle's anal coaching was partly to blame for Ron Ron leaving. Both Artest and Larry Bird wanted the stigma of Artest in the crowds behind them. Part of the reason why Artest left is that he heard a lot of legitimate rumors about being shopped (which he was--the deal for Maggette was well known) and he didn't like the uncertainty. He iddn't handle it the best way, but it's not exactly an easy situation to handle.

I do agree that Ron being a bad teammate is overblown. On the Kings, he did send an e-mail to the team announcing his retirement, but otherwise, it seems like he's actually been pretty good to that franchise. He worked on his shooting (to good effect), always played hard, and played very injured after his elbow surgery putting the team way ahead of his health.

He was very nice in the media to Francisco Garcia and John Salmons, even after Salmons freaked out after kicking ass in Bibby and Artest's absence only to get fewer minutes when Artest returned.

Ron has shown a strong commitment to the Kings franchise which has not been reciprocated.

Artest is a gamble, but he gives us toughness, offensive firepower with decent shooting, and strong defense at the 2/3/4 which we really need.

Buss, despite his known poker playing habits, isn't much of a gambler. His reputation is that of an extremely tight player. What I've seen of his play on High Stakes Poker confirms the truth of that rumor.

One last thought on the LO vs Artest. As we all know, injuries happen, we have been hit hard 2 years in a row. If Andrew or Pau goes down, who would you rather have at Power Forward Lamar or Rony? I really dont think there is even any question there. and Lamar will still see plenty of minutes at the 4 next year, even if he starts at the 3. Lamar gives us much more versitility.

MH

dan,

“What the Lakers need is more and better outside shooting. The deal that makes the most sense is LO for Rashard Lewis. Lewis doesn't solve any of the defense or toughness issues, but those will always be problems until the offense works properly. And Lewis he helps get the offense back on track.”

As sonny would point out, Rashard is definitely ”soft” when compared to Lamar but nowhere near as “soft” as Vlade, who is sort of a Rashard Lite. Both were Seattle 3-point shooting small forwards who disappointed the teams that eventually won their services. While Rashard is definitely a better overall offensive player than Vlade, they both are 40% career 3-point shooters with Rashard higher scoring average due to more minutes. Neither is an especially good defender, rebounder, passer, or ball handler.

Yes, we could use better outside shooting at the 3 but we also need that player to be able to play defense as well as contribute in other ways. No, Rashard Lewis is not the answer. I would have no problem trading Vlade (and let’s say Luke to match salaries) for Rashard but not Lamar. He is twice the player that Rashard is in every category except for 3-point shooting, including defense, ball handling, passing, rebounding, and attacking the rim.

Tom

I've been on the stand pat platform this summer, but if an Ariza+Mihm+Farmar for Artest deal were available I'd do it if I were Mitch. The biggest issue with such a deal is getting rid of Farmar, who has shown potential. However the Lakers have three picks in the '09 draft, which makes the blow softer especially if they get an inexpensive, competent PG to backup Fisher in the interim.

Ariza would be compelling for the Kings as he's cheap and has upside, plus the Kings don't have other true SF on their current roster. Mihm is just filler at this point, anything he could give to any team would be a bonus.

Both teams have similar goals in trading Odom or Artest. Both want to tie a bad contract to one of the players to help reduce their future burden. Knowing this, for either team to accept a bad contract would not be fiscally responsible. So that's not likely. That would boil the deal down to expiring contracts and potential. The Kings don't have much use for Odom other than his expiring contract. Both the Kings and Artest have collectively burned their bridge. This trade would even benefit the Kings further by shaving $1 million off their 2008 payroll.

I made the post on Saturday......LO for Ron Ron. If it's there for Mitch and the boys, they should pull the trigger on this one. As I said on Sat, Ron gives us more versatility than LO when you really think about it. Defensive stopper, natural 3, who can score inside and out and he gives us a competitive physicality that we really lack. He's the running partner Kobe really wants and needs. His attitude problem shouldn't be a problem on a winning team with a coach like Phil. Phil can handle guys like Artest in his sleep. Most importantly, when it comes down to winning championships, which position do we need to have strength, toughness and physicality at? Well, think about the best players in the league...Lebron, Paul Pierce, etc... Would be nice to have Artest making their lives miserable if/when we face them in the championships to come. Bring on Ron Ron. LO, hate to see you go, but Artest is the right fit for this team going forward.

I wanna keep Ariza, but I guess Farmar could go since there is Karl, Yue, and Crawford in the mix. But how about Luke Walton, Bill Walton for Artest? what? why are you looking at me like that?

Long TIme Laker Fan
Good points on subbing Bynum/Ariza for Garnett/Posey.
Obviously that would have been an impact in the Finals.

However, Ariza played in the Finals and don't tell me just his timing was off. Phil Jackson's rotations baffle the heck out of me as Ariza was not put on Paul enough and when he was he got abused because of our team defensive principles which were SOFT.
What happened to a "no layup rule" or just plain "packing it in"
Phil packed it in back in 2004 against Tony Parker and the Spurs to sweep last 4 games because he had the biggest human on earth standing by the basket.

He had great defense with Scottie and Mike.
Well they are not here and we pay Phil to come up with defensive strategy and coach/teach/repetitively enforce DEFENSE.
It is not happening.

I also can't believe you mentioned Ariza and Gerald Wallace in the same breath or Luke Walton.
Gerald Wallace would be an incredible TURBO boost to the Lakers lineup.

As I said keep Micheal Jordan in your FAV FIVE, Mitch Kupchak starting in December!!

The ODOM for WALLACE cloud should sit over the season starting in the early winter!