Report Card: Pau Gasol

Pau was definitely a perfect fit for the triangle offense. I'm not sure if any other big man could've come in and the offense not skip a beat like that. I absolutely can't wait to see him lined up next to Bynum next season...should be the best front line in the league, regardless of whether it's Odom or Artest that's up front with them.

A-............

I think that's a bit low for a guy who,as you acknowledge, played out of position. I am quite anxious to see what Pau can do at PF with AB to anchor the middle! Move Pau out to the 4 and he's no longer outmatched, but rather his length will allow him to defend other PF's quite well, especially with AB behind him. As you said BK, his effort while playing out of position was excellent, even if he was outwieghed and could be muscled a bit by other centers. I do not suscribe to the opinion that Pau is soft, just that he's been out of position his entire NBA career.

Lift Weights and gain Upper and Lower Body Strength!

Tapas forever!

Sangria!

Elena Anaya!

Paz Vega!

Can some kind friend please help me find some quality NBA blogs for a project of mine? I would be greatly indebted for any help with this.

I know the LA Times has a pretty good one, but anyone else? Any weird/unique ones? What was that blog award the LA Times blog won this year, some kind of fan appreciation thing? Anyone remember?

Thanks,

Wes

I would have gave gasol a "A" and ditched the minus. I no he didn't show up in the finals most wish he would have but his addition (and bynums improvement) really made the lakers the team to beat. Even wih just bynum I don't think the lakers would have been the #1 seed in the west. Gasol was just what they needed to et over that hump

Reasonable grade. The confounding thing about Gasol is that his relative toughness on the defensive end does not transfer to the offensive end. Many accuse him of being soft, but I think that really only applies offensively (please, Pau, every layup attempt from this year should be a dunk attempt next year). Defensively, he showed a willingness to bang with the big guys, so his softness on the offensive end was hard to understand.

A summer spent in the gym working on the jumper from the high post will make this guy an absolutely phenomenal fit in the triangle with Kobe & Andrew.

And with Bynum manning the middle and Gasol moving back
to his more natural PF spot, he may earn an A+ this season.

A-men!
I like it and a really good summary AK!
And I have been waiting for anything else to discuss besides potential trade scenarios!

GO LAKERS!

A-, that's legit.

-bozz-

I think that's a fair grade. People might say he was "soft" or whatever at times, but you can't fault a guy for being who he is. If your grading based on how well he did against his maximum potential, I think A- is a solid bet.

I'm still very interested to see how Bynum and Pau fit together on the court at the same time. I think both are very good help defenders and since they'll probably split time being the primary defender on the other team's best post player, the interior defense should vastly improve.

I agree with that report card of Gasol. He played incredibly well all year (when he was here anyway). Add in the fact that he was playing out of position (that is tough for him given his lack of strength and girth lol) and u really start to comprehend how well he played for us.

I think that we haven't really seen the real Gasol yet for the most part yet tho. Putting him at the 4 really opens his game up even more. It's funny how important Bynum became to this team in the matter of months.

According to Hoopshype and a Spanish New Site (marca), the Lakers have made an offer to Jorge Garbagejosa.

Gasol

Well stated BK.

I'm hearing lately that now it takes 3 star to win it all, and I think that might be true. This year we had Pau and Kobe. Next year we add Bynum, and that's 3 stars playing together.

If we get Artest that's 4 and unbeatable if everybody's healthy.

San Antonio has Duncan, Parker and Ginobli.

Boston has Garnett, Allen and Pierce.

New Orleans has Peja, West, and Paul.

Yes I believe you now need 3 stars to win it.

John

For this grade, I generally agree. But, the scary part is that Gasol has room to grow. He can hit the weights this summer, get a little more used to banging around, plus he'll be PF next season.

You know, that is really scary. He's just too quick for most of the guys he'll face game-after-game.

Behind him will be AB.

Wow!

Then, you have to consider that LO will be our starting small forward. He will completely overwhelm all but maybe two other SF's in the league.

Wow!

I can't wait 'till next season!

--Fearless

A- is too high since he crumbled when it counted most. I'd give him a B or a B+

Gasol showed trouble with physicality in the late regular season, particularly against teams like the Blazers.

He never corrected the problem and always blamed the refs instead of adjusting. That's not fighting. That's whining.

He's a good regular season player, but he was totally exposed in playoff away games.

I believe he can fix these issues. It may just take some time. He'll step up better in the playoffs.

His need to get tougher will be only partly rememdied by him playing the 4. He needs to get T'd up once in a while with excessive physicality. He needs to stop falling down. Bend your damn knees, guy! Lean into the other guy. He needs to hold the other guy some, push, scuffle some.

He's a gentleman and a scholar. During games, he needs to forget about all that.

All in all, huge acquisition. He integrated amazingly well into our offense. He should be a good guy to have for years to come.

That's a good assessment; his performance was especially good considering the lack of pre-season/training camp with this system and roster, and considering that he had some issues with injuries, too.

It seemed like he lost confidence in his 15-18 foot shot somewhat towards the end; if he can make that consistently next season it will make Bynum, who is already totally unstoppable and the best of all time, even more unstoppable and bester of all time.

It seems to me this trade should be done.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8332134/Report:-Lakers-approach-Kings-about-Artest

If the Lakers don't match Ronny's contract, the Clippers should
make a play for either Biedrins or Ellis.

Maggette's and Turiaf's contracts would bring them up around
50 million in salaries and the cap is at 59 milion.

Offer Biedrins 10 million a year for 3 years. Golden State
reportedly offered much less than that. If Golden State flinches,
then you've got a young energetic (overpaid) PF for 3 years (but at least it's not 5 or 6 years). If they bite, and
pay Biedrins, then you turn around and offer Ellis 50
million over 5 years. So then the Warriors can either choose
to move into luxury tax to keep both players or they can let
one of them go.

Davis-Ellis-Thornton-Kaman could be a decent core of
players, with Eric Gordon, DeAndre Jordan, and Nick
Fazekas having the potential to become good role players.

Couldn’t agree more with your grade assessment for Gasol BK;

But as the saying goes, you’re usually remembered by the characteristically quick to forget fans to only be as good as your last game (or in this instance “series”). Therefore, as with the progress of Lamar Odom this season. All the monumental good Gasol made as you point out here which he bought from the time he joined the team. Along with the lavish praise Kupchak received for pulling off one of the steals of the century. Is now all but lost after the poor showing against Boston.

Never mind that Gasol a career forward had to carry the load and carried it outstandingly while playing out of position at center all last season. Never mind that Gasol was bought in only to hold down the fort until Bynum’s return. And who’s main purpose is play off Bynum at center as a PF. And not to replace him.

Now many think he’s just a weak Euro who needs to be traded pronto.

Ridicules…

Ho-Hum, well fans will always be fans I guess…

Great report guys - if people can take the Game 6 Goggles of Pain (TM) for a few moments, they'll hopefully remember what a stud Pau was for us this year. Until he got killed in the Finals by the Celtics physical attack (as you pointed out, he faced the serious challenge of playing out of position), Pau had an absolutely monstrous effect on the Lakers down the stretch. I can't imagine going from total insecurity that my passes into the post would end up in Lou Adler's hands to seeing them consistently converted into points, but Kobe's demeanor in the last months of the season gave me a pretty good idea. Like anyone else who suffered during the Finals, I recognize Pau's need to add a few pounds of muscle and a modicum of mental toughness when facing more physical teams, but that has no effect on my celebration of the best trade of last season.

Imagine what a full year in the Lakers system will do for Pau; don't underestimate the hunger for a ring after finally getting within reach of one, either. I'm not that worried about Pau and AB playing together, but I am glad that I'm not the one who'll be figuring out the ideal rotations if Farmar, KB, Lamar, Pau and AB are the primary starters. It'll take a while to find the perfect mix, but I go into next season confident that, all things being equal (especially a healthy team), the Lakers are the prohibitive favorites to bring home the title next year.

PS For those still convinced I'm a moron for my suggestion to bring back Kwame and Smush, please refer to the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_modest_proposal

PPS Just Say No To Ron Artest for LO

BK,

I probably would have went for a B+, but A- is OK by me.

I think when he moves to the 4 next season with Bynum back, he will flourish.

Bynum and Pau COULD be the best frontcourt in the NBA over the next 5 years.

I wouldn't want to risk a summer Lakers blog going without
discussion of a possible Odom trade, so I'll add this into this
thread.

Next season, presumably Bynum will start at center, moving
Gasol to PF and Odom out to SF. Sounds really nifty having
a 7 7 6-10 front court, but it's not as rosy as it seems.

Odom's greatest asset is his rebounding. Will he still be getting
10 rebounds a game (almost 3 of them offensive rebounds) if
he's playing more on the wing than in the post? I don't think
so. My guess is that if he keeps up his aggressive rebounding
tendencies, but starts from the wing, it's more like 6 to 7 a
game.

And Odom's greatest weakness is his 3-point shooting. 27% is
pretty pitiful. And hitting the 3-pointer is an important part of
the SF position in the triangle.

So if he is moved to starting SF, Lamar's greatest asset becomes
reduced and his greatest weakness becomes magnified.

Artest, on the other hand, shot 38% on 3-pointers last season.
And he got about 6 rebounds playing on the wing, which
is decent -- 11th best rebounding in the league by a SF.

If you're worried about the rebounds, consider this. Using
their per-48 rebound numbers from last season:

Bynum - 16.9
Odom - 13.5
Radmanovic - 7.0
Total for this frontcourt - 37.4

Gasol - 11.1
Odom - 13.5
Radmanovic - 7.0
Total for this frontcourt - 31.6

Bynum - 16.9
Gasol -11.1
Artest - 7.3
Total for this frontcourt - 35.3

So, they'd be a hair off from Bynum/Odom, but still pretty
darn good.

This from HoopsWorld:

The Los Angeles Lakers are officially on the clock as restricted free agent Ronny Turiaf signs an offer sheet with the Golden State Warriors. The exact numbers have yet to be made public but the offer is thought to be $17 million over the next four seasons. LA can match the offer by July 17th to keep Turiaf.

If they do so, he will have veto power on any trade for a full year. During that time, he can't be traded to the Warriors under any circumstances.

Turiaf has been a great influence in the locker room. He's great for team chemistry and fills a useful role of the bench. His performance in this year's playoff was underwhelming but he's still a young, developing player.

Separately, a Spanish publication of unknown veracity noted recently that the Lakers have made overtures to free agent Spanish forward Jorge Garbajosa, formerly of the Toronto Raptors. The article suggested he'd be a replacement for Lamar Odom or Vladimir Radmanovic should either be traded.

There could be some truth that LA looks at Garbajosa down the road but it shouldn't be taken too seriously as of yet especially coming off recent injuries (ankle, etc). He could be part of a contingency plan to round out the roster but don't expect an afternoon press conference.

The likelihood remains that the Lakers hold tight to the team that got all the way to Game 6 of the NBA Finals. Sources close to the team insist the roster will go under minimal changes this summer.

While the conclusion of the series showed the Lakers still have a ways to go, there is some serious thought that the addition of a healthy Andrew Bynum (as well as Trevor Ariza) may be all the franchise needs to make the next step.

The Turiaf decision forces their hand somewhat in that they could lose a regular contributor. So too would the loss of Sasha Vujacic who has yet to sign an offer sheet.

The juicy piece LA has to send out in a blockbuster trade is Lamar Odom - who is in the final year of his contract at $14.1 million. At times Odom was a major factor (Utah Jazz series) but in the Finals he struggled against the Boston Celtics.

The same sources say the Lakers want to see the big front court of Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Odom in action before making a change.

Still, rumors persist that the team may look to make a change now, before they lose Turiaf and Vujacic.

The Odom buzz surrounds three players: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion and Kirk Hinrich.

The more popular rumor comes from Sam Amick of the Sacramento Bee. Amick notes that the Sacramento Kings would likely try to pawn off Kenny Thomas' contract in any Odom/Artest swap. His sources indicated the Lakers were indeed willing to trade Odom for Artest.

Artest wouldn't be the issue in that deal. With extensions needed for both Artest and Bynum - in addition to the salaries Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol - the Lakers salary would be staggering next year (2009-10). It just doesn't seem remotely feasible that LA would in addition pay Thomas $8.6 million - that would in effect be doubled with luxury taxes to $17.2 million.

Obviously there are ways to dump salary but Thomas with Artest seems a stretch. On the other hand, if LA could part with one of their forwards (Luke Walton or Vladimir Radmanovic) in a bigger deal - that might justify taking on Thomas, especially if the Lakers could trim $2-3 million in salary off of the current year.

The other factor to consider is the rivalry factor. Do the Kings really look to help the Lakers? Is an Odom/Walton for Artest/Thomas swap equitable to Sacramento (let alone the Lakers)?

There hasn't been much movement on the Marion front. Those rumors surfaced before the NBA Draft. Pat Riley insists the HEAT aren't shopping Marion.

Considering the Lakers have Ariza, Walton and Radmanovic at the three - in addition to Kobe Bryant who is often most effective in the front court - perhaps it would make more sense for the Lakers to look for a long term solution at the point.

Derek Fisher was a tremendous presence last year in his return to the club but he will turn 34 before the upcoming season begins. Jordan Farmar had a very strong regular season but at just 6'2", 180 lbs - he may not be big enough to be a full-time starter for Coach Phil Jackson. Farmar is a solid spark off the bench but he has his limitations - most visibly against the Utah Jazz where he was completely dominated by Deron Williams.

Hinrich isn't that much bigger but at 6'3", 190 lbs he might be a strong long-term fit alongside Bryant, Gasol and Bynum. The Lakers would have to take a player like Cedric Simmons to balance out the salaries in this theoretical swap.

To be clear, the prevailing rumor is that the Lakers do not make any wholesale change this summer. The minor buzz may be interesting to debate but fans shouldn't expect much.

Still, if the Lakers were so bold to cut the cord on the Lamar Odom experiment and cash him in early for someone who might be a better fit - now would be the time before they lose Turiaf (or Vujacic).

Turiaf can be a valuable big man off the bench and the price tag of $4 million a season isn't outlandish, even if it's more than LA anticipated.

Of course, the Lakers are over the luxury tax threshold so every dollar spent is doubled - Turiaf for $8 million a season suddenly doesn't sound so reasonable.

Considering Bynum's agent David Lee has been clear that he expects his client to get a maximum contract which is currently $13.8 million (it will go up slightly next year), the Lakers are going to be paying the luxury tax for the foreseeable future.

Bryant may opt out and (in theory) re-sign a new, long-term deal but taking his number at $23 million and Bynum's at $14 million - the Lakers would have $66.9 million committed to just six players.

Whether trading for Artest or Marion or looking to extend Odom, the price tag to retain any of the three is probably eight figures. Should they trade for Hinrich, that's seven players at $76.7 million.

For reference, this year's luxury tax threshold is set at $71.15 million.

It's up to Lakers' owner Dr. Jerry Buss to shoulder the financial burden. The Lakers, a lucrative organization to begin with, just raised ticket prices. Perhaps Buss will be willing to pay for a winner. The average fan doesn't care if he's paying $60 million or $100 million for a player- as long as the team is winning.

For now the Lakers have to make a smaller, albeit important decision on Turiaf. The Warriors will have their answer by Thursday.

A- is generous considering he wilted (that's wilted, not "Wilt-ed") in the playoffs.

The trade for Gasol really put us into a championship contender caliber team.

I don't care what anyone says about Gasol's supposed "softness" or lack of aggression, but his arrival made an immediate impact on our team. When he was injured, the team faltered, when he came back, the team was re-energized.

It's a pity we never got to see Pau and Andrew together on the hardwood working side by side, but I can't wait to see the lineup of Gasol/Bynum/Kobe/Lamar/Fish next year.

It's going to be exciting. I just hope the rumors about the Lakers trading for Artest for Odom isn't true.

JORGE GARBAJOSA PLAYER PROFILE

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jorge-Garbajosa-5182/

Here is excerpt on Garbo’s strengths and weaknesses. If his knee and ankle are healed, he could be an excellent vet to have backing of power forward and give us a 4 who can shoot the 3. I like what they say about his defense and toughness. Better than Ronny? Maybe. Cheaper? For sure.

>>>>>

Basketball IQ is the trademark of Garbajosa. He’s one of the best players in Europe in taking decisions on both ends of the court. He fully understands the game and tries to take advantage of it constantly for him and for his teammates. He’s first a team player, even when he presides as the leader.

Garbajosa gains most of his offensive advantages on the perimeter, forcing his matchup to step out thanks to his reliable perimeter stroke, and enjoying range that likely extends out to the NBA three-point line. Meanwhile, he will punish his man for guarding him too closely by taking him off the dribble and looking for the layup. He’s a nice ball-handler and will rarely turn it over.

Still, as important as his own advantages is the fact that he does a tremendous job clearing space in the paint for his team’s center, allowing him to operate more comfortably with the room he creates. Garbajosa himself will feed him or move the ball so it can reach that spot. If he’s guarded by a smaller defender, he can take him to the low post, where he usually tries to attract defensive help and feed an open teammate. He’s a very good passer, not spectacular, but tremendously effective, particularly within the flow of the offense. And he’s constantly working to make the offense run smoothly, setting picks and moving without the ball.

Besides being a perimeter-shooting big man, he fulfils another international stereotype: he’s a great player forcing personal fouls, mainly in slashing situations.

What makes Garbajosa so special is that he’s as good defensively as he is offensively. He delivers every bit of intensity and intelligence to get the job done. His lateral movement is quite nice, and he’s also a tough guy. Considering his limited physical and athletic gifts, he’s a remarkable shot-blocker who shows excellent timing, although it’s hard to picture him getting any significant production in this department in the NBA.

Not a bad rebounder in the international game, it remains to be seen how he fares against much bigger opponents in the NBA. His aggressiveness and smartness should help him, though.

Weaknesses

It’s obvious, glaring and quite concerning the poor combination of size and athleticism that Garbajosa possesses. He’s a 6-9 power forward with limited leaping ability and nothing more than decent quickness. That makes the transition of his skills to the NBA level very questionable.

His decision making has one flaw: his shot selection is not always the best. Sometimes he’ll settle for the three-pointer excessively, even if he’s not making them. However, that has been the case when he has enjoyed a leading role on his team; in a more marginal role, it’s hard to picture him going overboard with his perimeter stroke. Still, it’s quite probable that he will suffer with the transition to the NBA three-point line, even if you can see him knocking down long treys in Europe.

Originally a low post player, Garbajosa has lost some of his skills there. He suffers trying to finish around the basket unless he manages to release a turnaround jumper. Rarely utilizing his hook shot, he instead prefers to pass the ball to an open teammate.

>>>>

Tom

Pau Gasol is nice!!!!! I don't know why anyone would even question that. He's naturally a forward, has the interior and perimeter game as a forward. When he's able to play the forward position along with Bynum it's going to be a nightmare for everyone in the league. Did you see the way Gasol's complete package blended so well in the triangle. There was no adjustment time needed whatsover. By the championship series, he was the one telling guys where to go in the offense. To me, that shows that the addition of Bynum will blend terrificly!!! Ihate we might lose Ronny!

AK

Splendid job. I predicted an “A-” for Pau and for Kobe, just like Lamar and Drew, and it kind of makes sense because all four guys were critical to the team’s success this year but needed to play better in the Finals to ultimately get a straight “A.” When you are done, could you please list all of the grades together in a table. I think it would give your critics some food for thought when then see the grades in perspective of the team. After all, that is the curve that it seems that you are following, at least that’s what it looks like to me.

You would have been an excellent teacher and fair grader. Ever considered that when you were younger? All though high school, my plans were to be come an English teacher and basketball coach. As often happens, those dreams were replaced by other ventures and adventures but you can still see those roots as I blithely blog along with you guys. Looking forward to seeing Pau and his brother and Garbo and Rubio play for Spain this summer. Thank God we have something at least BB related to keep us going. LOL.

Tom

john_in_houston,

>>San Antonio has Duncan, Parker and Ginobli.
>>Boston has Garnett, Allen and Pierce.
>>New Orleans has Peja, West, and Paul.
>>Yes I believe you now need 3 stars to win it.

You left one out...

Miami had Wade, Shaq...

and the referees.

I think all you out there in Lakerland will enjoy this video.

http://break.com/index/shaq-jumps-over-escalade2.html

I Pau's an A- which I think is legit, LO is a B-.

I think any NBA fan can attest that Lamar Odom is a B player in this league and Pau is an A-.

Just cuz LO invites you nerds to his BBQs, doesn't mean you had to grade him as high as you did.

BD,

If we give up LO for Hinrich I'll guarantee, GUARANTEE, a riot, bank on it. That's the worst possible scenario of the three. Terrible, unless we get Deng with him, even then it's somewhat weak.

Damn.

-bozz-

Honestly, trading for Artest is a no brainer to me. The position that we are lacking the most is the position the man plays. We need a lock down defender, as much as I love Ariza he hasn't prove to be a lock down defender. On the other hand, Artest has proved to be one of the better defenders in the whole league. All this silly talk about not trading for Artest is just what it is, silly. If Mitch is that interested to offer Lamar, I will think he knows more than us.

As for the trade for Gasol, I think I was the one most vocal on this blog about going after Gasol, more than Garnett and Oneal. I basically got my wish when we got him, and I could not have been more happier. He sure made our lives more rosier when Bynum went down. The man still has alot of upsides, and I believe he will prove himself to be a champion in this league. He's intelligent and stays motivated. I expect to see a more determined Gasol next year. He Had several games with Kobe that both players put up 30 points game at the same time, and no one noticed the numbers. He surely deserves a A-.

Aloha

I am really looking forward to Pau at the PF next year. Just look what he did against Boston, the one game he had KG another PF guarding him. 19 points, 13 boards and 6 assists, with 2 blks. As far as defense is concerned KG only had a game and a half of good offensive production and Pau made Duncan work for everything he got as well. With Andrew back we will dominate the paint this year.

MH

BOSTON CELTICS: HEY! WE'VE BEEN INVITED TO LOS ANGELES CAMPING TRIP. THEY SAY WE'LL ROAST MARSHMELLOWS AND HAVE A GOOD OLD TIME.

LOL!

mike t.

Thirty2,

Here what I think and have always thought.

The Lakers vs. Jazz.

The Lakers win because the Jazz banger is Boozer. Boozer is only 6'9. It's true he a banger but he's too short to completely stop the marshmellow Gasol. Then their center is Mehmet Okur. Okur is strictly an outside player. He has very little inside game and defense is not his game. The marshmellow Gasol will do well against the Jazz.

Lakres vs Spurs

Against the Spurs: I said it throughout the season that the Spurs were a very good defensive team but I also said that they were too old.

If the Spurs restock properly around Duncan, Ginobli and Parker...they will beat the Lakers.

Lakers vs Pistons

The Pistons...I'm not too sure they could beat the Lakers because they're getting too old, too.

Lakers vs Trailblazers

If I'm correct (If I'm right again, as usual) then the Portland Trailblazers are going to kill the Lakers.

Lakers vs Suns

If the Lakers play the Suns the Lakers will have a lot of trouble. The Suns are going away from that small ball. I did watch the Suns a lot after the Shaq trade. At first they started slow. Then when Shaq got into the flow the Suns started doing well. Then as I watch the Suns games I noticed something. Everytime they took Shaq out of the game the Suns relied on that small ball and would give up a lead. I think that's why the Suns got rid of D'Antoni. If Shaq only plays defense and Amare handles the bulk of the offensive scoring down low....they will beat the Lakers. The marshmellow Gasol can't handle a defensive Suns team with both Amare and Shaq.

Lakers vs. Dallas

I have no idea how this is going to play out.

Here's the conclusion of the matter:

Lakers vs. Jazz = Softie vs. Softie: Advantage Lakers

Softie (marshmellow Gasol) vs. any other softie, the Lakers win because Gasol can score and then you have Kobe Bryant.

Softie vs banger but banger is too short. Advantage Lakers because the marshmellow Gasol has long arms. (look at Gasol vs. Glen Davis of the Celtics. Davis made Gasol work for position but was to shot to contest the shot.)

Marshmellow Gasol is not a championship big man. And Bynum is nothing but a question mark at this point. But there's one question about Bynum that has already been answered: He got pushed around by Boston in the regular season when the Celtic beat the Lakers twice.

Jerry West said that Bynum/Gasol won't work because both are too slow footed and the Lakers would get burned by transition basketball.

mike t.

Walt Frazier,

Haha! Fake, but f-ing awesome.

Well done.

"MVP b****!"

-bozz-

ABOUT PAU, EUROS, AND SOFT…

Now that the sports media hyperbole of the Celtics beating the Lakers in the Finals and the accompanying indictments of the Lakers toughness have passed and the pendulum of common sense is now hovering above normal after violently swinging into overreaction, I want to return to a sensitive subject that Staples 24 started with his politically incorrect post that insinuated that black players were tougher than white or half-white players, even grading the “darkness” of players as if white blood diluted their natural “toughness.”

When Sonny Belfast humorously posted that we should interpret “soft” to mean “white” whenever we read or hear comments about NBA players, he may not have been kidding. What do NBA reporters and analysts mean when they say a player is “soft?” When they question whether there are “too many Euros” on a team, isn’t that just a more politically correct way of saying a team just has “too many soft guys” or “too many white guys?” Compton posted back and criticized Staples for posting his comments but acknowledged that he and his relatives had been saying the exact same thing watching the Finals.

We may not be able to eliminate the bias that was the subplot of White Men Can’t Jump but we can at least not hide behind innuendos and double speak when we talk about the NBA and teams having too many Euros when what we mean is too many white players. At the same time, we need to be careful not to allow stereotypes and generalities that we all recognize in large size populations to influence our judgments of individual persons. Despite glaring exceptions, most of us know that – in general – white men can’t jump and black players are more athletic, Euros are better shooters and Americans better drivers. Hell, I’ll even admit that most Asians are terrible drivers. LOL.

One of my favorite ESPN writes, Jason Whitlock, was the guest host on Jim Rome this morning and had a terrific take at the end of the show on Jesse Jackson’s comments about cutting off Barack Obama’s balls and what the reaction would have been if the comments had been made by a white person. To make a long story short, the point of Jason’s take was that we all need to back off from being so sensitive about comments that people say that might be offensive to some other person, race, religion, or culture because most of us have at one time or another been just as guilty of the same – whether we’re white, black, yellow, or some other shade. We’re all human and biased in millions of ways.

I remember Barack Obama commenting how insensitive and crude racist comments from his white grandmother, who loved him with all her heart, literally had made him “cringe.” I have had the exact same experience with my 90-year old Chinese father and understand. The history making reality that we may soon elect the country’s first biracial president is a testament to the greatness of our country and a benchmark to remind us that we really are one nation and one people after all. Even on the LA Times Lakers Blog.

Tom

htj-

Don't forget, it was also a pool party.

BK

Long Time,

Excellent points on Lakers rebounding. That is probably my biggest concern about losing Lamar, that and the impact on chemistry. I wouldn’t trade Lamar yet but will support whatever decision the Lakers come to as I trust them to do the right thing.

Tom

LakerTom,

Jason Whitlock is a bit$$. I do think his strategy of been one of a kind journalist is pretty smart, but it does not take away from his bit$$ness.

Lamar Odom for Kirk Hinrich and Cedric Simmons
Sign James Posey
Backcourt and Frontcourt is set.

dcerros

It seems to me this trade should be done.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8332134/Report:-Lakers-approach-Kings-about-Artest

Posted by: dcerros | July 11, 2008 at 12:04 PM

I see some alumni in that blog too!

Charles,

Paz Vega!!! YES!!!

ok im back. we los angeles times blog as a unity give pau gasol the grade of a. we also beleive that he will fit perfecly in his normal position next year of pf. freinds garbajosa is an excellent shooter but is his leg a bum. i took the time to study him on video and he remins me of peja stokavocich. very natural release the ball into basket. how do you think sascha is right now. has he received an offer outside of the los angeles lakers california. ok for now.

Mike T,

I've never seen a fan of a team take more delight in the failures of their supposed "favorite team."

You made excuse after excuse for why Kwame Brown was the key to the Lakers success, despite the limited success we experienced with him. And now after months later after leaving the blog, because Kwame gets traded you're trying to downgrade the team in some strange attempt to prove yourself right.

Get over it, you were wrong. Kwame sucks because he has limited basketball skill, and he couldn't even get off the bench for a team that had Darko Milicic in the starting lineup. Darko Milicic! The only reason Darko isn't the biggest bust in recent NBA history is because Kwame exists. Kwame is an athletic big man who is having trouble finding work in this league and even defensive-minded coaches like Jeff Van Gundy think the guy is a joke and thought the Lakers stole Gasol in that trade.

Are you listening on the Loose Cannons?

I have good news and bad news to relay.

Bad News:

1. Lakers doctors have NOT CLEARED Andrew Bynum to run at all. So all these speculations of how much is he worth, are worthless at this time. He has been out since January and until he can show the beef, why should we take the combo with the drinks. I am also wondering why are the Lakers doctors not included in Bynum's medical condition. Are the Lakers not qualified to handle ACL spurs? Does he have to go to NY to determine if he can play?

2. With all the indications of Summer League roster, other preliminary moves, Lakers on the verge of not matching Ronny Turiaf. The blogs, mainstream media are projecting that he becomes a Warrior. (To all young guys in the blog - if you happen to see a Laker dancing, cheering and celebrating with gusto, it doesn't mean he will be a Laker for life. That's what I heard and read on his interview. Money is a big motivating force that overrides passion.

What are the good news?

A. I read in LA Times paper that the Maloof Bros are here in the Orange County Fairgrounds putting up the Skateboarding events. In fact, they produced the rich contest called Maloof Money Cup. After all the speculation of hate LA, you can't really remove LA from the map of Sports America. There are so many olympians and talented players in our school system who call LA and its environs as their home. Therefore, if Maloof Bros. give Artest to the Lakers in exchange of Odom, it's just a fair deal. Lakers are equally helping them to improve their team with our beloved, Lamar, If they continue to antagonize the Lakers and their fans, it can have a negative effect on Maloof Companies like the Palm Resort Casino in Vegas as well as their fascination of the X games,

B, I said earlier that Ronny Turiaf move will not be matched by the Lakers Here is why?

At 5pm today, do not miss the Lakers Pro League game on NBA TV. Here are the Lakers roster

http://tinyurl.com/668qgk

I thought we will be watching only Joe Crawford and Coby Karl. I did not know that the other participants are composed of local team players like Davon Jefferson of Trojans 12ppg, 6.3rpg 6'8' PF (Step aside Luke haha!) and Lorenzo Mata-Real 3.1 PPG 3.5 RPG 6'9" PF (Step aside Vlad haha!) Isn't that exciting Mata-Real becomes the Laker Dozer a poor man PJ Brown and Cedric Bozeman of Bruins and also match advertised Marcelus Kemp of Nevada-Reno.

This offseason will show Kwame's true worth. On a team that doesn't have an established center; they can re-sign him to a significant deal if they want. Or he could be offered an MLE by just about any team. Apparently Philadelphia, the Clippers, and Golden State weren't interested in him.

LakerTom,

Very good post.

If our black guys are so hard, why are we not the Olympic champions right now? Maybe we need a few white guys on our Olympic team.

If Gasol has to play center, he's going to get pushed around and outmuscled. If he's playing PF, he matches up with anyone in the NBA. Gasol is not soft because he got pushed around by a guy who outweighs him by 75 pounds. Anyone with that disadvantage would get pushed around.

Gasol is not soft. From what I see, he's a big time competitor. He does need to build a little more strength. He did play well against Duncan though, and that's the measure I look at when evaluating Gasol. Kendrick Perkins was not a natural matchup for Gasol, so to base Gasol's performance on that matchup just isn't fair to Gasol as a PF.

Give Gasol a full training camp, and Andrew Bynum backing him up, and we'll see this guy reach his full potential.

Go Lakers!

ARTEST TO LAKERS? CRAZY ENOUGH TO WORK
By Charley Rosen for FoxSports.com

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8333122/Artest-to-Lakers?-Crazy-enough-to-work

Interesting comments that it was Jim Buss who convinced his dad not to trade for Artest, when he was available from Indiana before going to Sacramento. Here is a key excerpt:

>>>>> So, then, factoring in all the knowns and all the guesses, the Lakers
>>>>>bringing in Artest certainly involves their taking considerable risks.
>>>>>But if dethroning the Celtics is the organization's uppermost motivation,
>>>>>then it's a gamble well worth taking.

>>>>>In truth, it's a gamble they absolutely must take.

Tom

Troll...I mean Troy will beg to differ with your A- grade, BK.

Bynum isn't soft. Was Cap soft? Nope. He was thin, but not soft. Oh, and he's the 3rd all time shot blocker.

Oscar,
Yes in deed. Paz Vega.

ding how in prattville,
Who does Sacha receives moneys from. Peoples republic of Beverly Hills. His Audi automobile car is nice with remote control. How is sushi in chinese fast food buffet? Is sweet in Sour Fiche is of Fish Sticks with Catsup and Lemon? You imitates peoples from country that limit liquid explosion result babies, or liqour store owners that eat kimchi? Or better yet from Borat town? High five.

Mike t is a moron.

1) Whoever thinks the Suns will give the Lakers trouble next year should be arrested because they are obviously ingested some seriously dangerous hallucinogens.

2) Speaking of Gasol's, David Thorpe has Marc Gasol as the 4th best incoming rookie behind Oden, Beasley, and Rudy Fernandez.

3) It's summertime and the board has turned to rumors of Odom trades. Stunning really.

miket,

You amaze me. You have stated several times that you are not a Laker Fan that you just like to post and get a response. We all know you like the attention it gives you. You started with the Kwame is the Savior and is the Best Center in the league and now that that piece of garbage has been traded all you can come up with is Gasol is soft and Bynum sucks. That is the best you can do to get the attention you need?

You are one sorry human being Mike. Are you going to wish another injury on Bynum this year like last year?
Mike is there a lower life form than you on this planet earth? I doubt it.

I thought you weren't coming back to the blog you had better things to do? It's clear that whatever you were going to do it just didn't give you enough attention did it?

BD

"If I'm correct (If I'm right again, as usual)"

Sorry, you think Kwame Brown is a good player, you've lost the "I am right" card for the next 10 years or Kwame gets on an all star team, whic ever comes first.

BUTLER has 2006 Big 10 Playa of The Year (won it despite Oden in the same conf) ALANDO TUCKA as the best rookie coming in this season.

Add DJ STRAWBERRY, (who can shut down both Jellybean Jr. and LeBrawn, like Paul Pierce did), ROBIN LOPEZ, TYRON LUE and you have an incredibly powerful SUNS team shaping up.

Ga-Shawl was a gift but he is a trojan horse - too soft to bang, too fluffy to control the paint. Atlanta and Cleveland both have tougher men in the paint than the lakers, hence their greater success vs. the Celtics.

No matter though - when SHACK gets through with both ga-shawl and byenumb, those dudes will think Kendrick Perkins and KG were little girls!

Pig,

That Lew Alcindor kid is pretty skinny, and has weak calves so I don't know if he'll make it.

And no way will his team ever win a title with him in the middle because his defensive philosophy is all wrong.

The only teams I see Lakers "gutting" it out with in the West are:

Trail Blazers - scary athletic team that beat us twice last year without Oden while we had Gasol .... with Bynum and Oden returning, the Blazers still have an edge.

Hornets - I don't like CP3, but he's a talented young point guard that makes their offense run, when they run those pick n'rolls, and Peja knocks down those 3s, they have beaten us.

Mavericks - judging from the last three games we played against Dallas, we should have beaten them by 10 points or more, but it was always so close. Lakers gotta find a way from prevent Dirk to unleash last minute 3 pointers, plus with Diop back, Dallas has a pretty good match up against the Lakers.

Houston - with Yao back, the Rockets will make a lot of noise, not as much as the Blazers, but the Lakeshow might struggle against the Rockets' defense. We didn't play really well against them last year.

Jazz - I like this young team, especially Deron Williams but I don't see them beating the Lakers too much, they match up well for the Lakers, and we should be able to beat them even more easily with Bynum's return.

Suns - while I don't think the Suns are ever going to win a championship, during the regular season, Amare, Shaq, and Nash are still going to win games and cause some kinda nose in the WC, but they are a done and "old" team. I see them maybe taking 1 game from the Lakers, but with Bynum returning, we should be able to defeat them easy peasy.

Spurs - agh, their alternating championship years might end, but then again, who knows, maybe they'll get lucky again and somehow end up in the finals ... I don't see it happening though ... like the Suns, they'll win maybe one or two from the Lakers, but they're pretty much "done." They'll still of course be "up" there in the regular season, most likely make the playoffs.

Denver - poses no threat to us.

Kings - we'll probably drop 1 game to them, cuz Artest loves playing against us and Kevin Martin is a good player and Brad Miller eats babies for fun.

Everybody else in the WC (GSW, Clips, Grizz, etc.) doesn't pose a threat to the Laker's chances for making it on top of the WC or to the finals. Of course that's only going to happen if nobody gets injured on the Lakers!

Predictions on how the WC will shake out hypothetically if nobody on the Lakers get injured:

1. Lakers * this is a toss up between the Lakers/Blazers
2. Blazers *
3. Hornets
4. Rockets
5. Jazz
6. Suns
7. Dallas
8. Spurs - the last three spots are a toss up, it could easily be any of those three duking it out.

Pau Gasol demonstrated why he's never been successful in the playoffs. He's weak of heart, mind, and body. He missed countless point blank shots, showed no interest in being rebounder, and did little to nothing to serve as the number 2 guy. Pau doesn't have the intangibles this Laker team needs. He doesn't have the certain something that makes Kobe look over and say, damn, I don't need to carry this team. I finally got a wingman.

Pau Gasol is the perfect example of fools gold; the idea that he should be better than he actually is. What makes it worse is that Pau is a good, yet uneffective player. That makes for the worse kind of frustration, because you look at his numbers and say, gee, his game reads well. But then you Tivo the game and you see countless times that he failed to be productive for the Lakers.

It looks like we're tied into this loser, contract-wise, so I guess there's no use in talking trade. But I stand vindicated when I contemplate the numerous times Pau was criticized by the media and even the Laker coaching staff, including Phil, who rightfully called Pau soft. No doubt about it; everyone knows Pau failed as the number 2 guy, but no one wants to mention it because we just got Pau and we're kind of tied to him. It's the epitome of the white elphant in the room that everyone seems to be trying to ignore. Pau sucks, and I didn't want him to. I wanted him to carry this team over the top. But...

I'm hoping after he fails side by side with Bynum, the Laker management can comfortably say good riddance to this project.

I know Pau is a supreme replacement for Kwame, and people remember this, and this is why those people still favor Pau. But that is no reason to disregard the horrible play he exhibited in the playoffs post Denver. You guys are naive if you think otherwise.

Pau is fools gold and this will play out in due time. Meanwhile, I suppose he'll keep fooling those of you out there who think his game has merits.

With much due respect, BK.

YOU.....ARE..... WRONG.

Final grade, D+.

Now, I shall go back into off-season hibernation...(I think)

ALTERNATE ODOM FOR ARTEST TRADE…

Here is an interesting Odom for Artest trade option that still gets the Kings a chance to get rid of even more of their bad contract debt to the Lakers but also allows the Lakers to get rid of their long term contract with Luke.

Lakers trade:
-----Lamar Odom - $14.5M salary this year, contract expires this year.
-----Luke Walton - $4.4M salary this year, $22M more over 4 more years.
-----Chris Mihm - $2.5M salary this year, contract expires this year.

Kings trade:
-----Ron Artest - $8.5M salary this year, contract expires this year.
-----Brad Miller - $11.4M salary this year, $12.3M expiring contract next year.

Lakers Advantages:
-----We get Artest who adds toughness and defense and is cheaper than Odom.
-----We get Miller would be a better backup center than Mihm.
-----We don’t get Thomas or Abdur-Rahim, whom we would not want.
-----We get rid of Luke and his contract and reduce the glut at small forward.
-----We open up a roster spot for another player or future trade.
-----We get Bird rights to re-sign Artest to new contract.
-----Payroll for this year decreases by $1.5M – saving $3M in taxes.
-----Payroll overall decreases by $11.2M – saving $22.4M in taxes.
Laker Disadvantages:
-----Payroll for next year would increase by $7.5M – costing $15M in taxes.
-----They get Artest who might be a bad distraction this year.
-----Payroll for this year increases by $1.5M.
-----Payroll overall increases by $11.2M but spread over 5 years.

Kings Advantages:
-----They get Odom who is perfect for their run and gun game.
-----They get Artest who might be a bad distraction this year.
-----They can start Hawes and use Mihm to back him up. Miller was on way out anyway.
-----They get Luke Walton, who would be a valuable role player and glue guy.
-----Payroll for next year would decrease by $7.5M, helping their cap situation.
-----They get Bird rights to re-sign Odom to a new contract.
Kings Disadvantages:
-----Payroll for this year increases by $1.5M.
-----Payroll overall increases by $11.2M but spread over 5 years

Our Roster would be better balanced and look like this:

C: Bynum Miller Mbenga
PF: Gasol Garbo Turiaf
SF: Artest Ariza Radmanovic
SG: Bryant Vujacic Karl
PG: Fisher Farmar Sun

I still think that this is a good deal that benefits both teams. Anybody agree or disagree.

Tom

I have a friend who calls me in the morning and is perfectly rational, but once the mid-afternoon arrives, his phone calls and behavior become more and more unhinged. I'm not sure if the President of the Kwame Brown ManCrush Club is my friend or not, but he sure does remind me a lot of him.

Advice for Killing Trolls #764: The more sophisticated trolls will often lure you into their trap by making seemingly intelligent and well-though arguments, only to revert to their primary Modus Operandi once you've been lulled into complacency. Never forget the prime driving force behind any troll is to forment chaos and destruction within a cohesive unit - ignore them even more intensely when they're in their phony 'rational phase', and the troll will quickly revert to their more easily recognized 'crazy phase'.

Rocky,

Thanks for the props. Couldn't agree more with your comments. Drew will make Pau better much as Pau made Lamar better. Good dominoes.

Tom

Peanut Butter Spread,

Blazers are indeed scary but not yet proven on the road. They are young team composed of NCAA stars who are not approaching their sophomore years in NBA. I still say Spurs, Mavericks, Hornets, Suns and Jazz. If Yao Ming can play, include also the 21 consecutive games winner, Rockets. In order to jell in NBA, you have to prove two things during the season, all your players are intact w/o any injury, can dominate at home and dominate on the road. Once you pass that test, you are seeded in the playoffs, this time you can beat the best teams in the West on 7 games and finally the Finals. Coach Nate McMillan, has he ever competed in the Finals all his NBA life? Lastly, Oden....first, he was injured for one year; second, he hasn't played a single NBA game; third, there are so many 7 footers in NBA more physical than what he faced in NCAA tournament. So by January, we will know if Blazers are real or Blazers are young team for another lottery year.

"Ga-Shawl was a gift but he is a trojan horse - too soft to bang, too fluffy to control the paint....

...but embarrased SHACK on his first game with us by going 13-19 for 29 points. I'm scrrred!"

Laker Tom -

I am truly impressed with how you articulate your thoughts. Thank you so much for sharing!

:-)

Edwin,

Drew doesn’t need to check with the Lakers doctors. The Loose Cannons are just what they say they are. Drew got a complete go from his doctor who last operated on him and is probably on his way to Atlanta to work with his personal trainer right now. Like Mitch said, the injury will not prevent a contract from being signed. The Lakers will get a great look at Drew in camp and exhibition games to make sure he is fine before inking the big extension.

Tom

Don't be swayed with Mike T. intriguing comments. That is his style like to describe a spanish marshmallow and Bynum as the thief who shipped the sacred calves. As time goes by, we learned to read between the lines, dilineate things that are garbage and pick up some good points. He usually connect after some time of deep analysis. Good thing, there is no more J. Journal to read with one conclusion: Kwame is great and Jackson is a bastard. Haha!

Mike t is a moron.

Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 11, 2008 at 02:39 PM
_________________________________________

LOL!
I don't think Mike T. is a moron. I just think he has ADD problem, he just can't pay close attention to reality, instead he focus on his stupidity.

LakerTom,

I'm not sure how the Kings feel about Miller, so it's a little hard for me to say.

Because Luke had such a bad season and may have overperformed the season before, I think the Kings have to give up on Miller before they can make the trade.

That line-up is wonderful for us. I'd only think about the trade to make sure my excitement at what I thought I was seeing was legitimate.

Only a guy that hates White players like Mike T could conclude that the Jazz are soft.

Are you kidding me?

"With much due respect, BK.

YOU.....ARE..... WRONG.

Final grade, D+."

Yep...I knew it!

troy,

>>>Pau Gasol demonstrated why he's never been
>>>successful in the playoffs. He's weak of heart, mind,
>>>and body. He missed countless point blank shots,
>>>showed no interest in being rebounder, and did little
>>>to nothing to serve as the number 2 guy.

Maybe you should have actually watched this years' finals
instead of replays of old Memphis first round losses.

Pau shot 53% from the floor against Boston (as compared to
Kevin Garnett's 49%, for instance) and got 10.2 rebounds
per game (second only to Garnett in that category.

Yes, he did get pushed around a bit both on offense and
defense. And in the games where Kendrick Perkins, the
Celtics big banger was out, Odom and Gasol were doing more
pushing around than getting pushed. With Bynum back,
it'll even the scales (both figuratively and literally).

Laker fans say Pau Gasol is weak

During the Finals, sportwriters dumped Pau, he was overpowered and soft.

It is not Pau Gasol, all Lakers are soft including the torn pinky of Kobe.

I say THANK YOU Pau Gasol, if you did not join the Lakers, Lakers will not be a playoff contender and would not beat the Jazz and the Spurs and possibly, we would be with the Suns for the 7th game of the first round playoff berth.

Pau Gasol was the anchor man of Kobe and Pau's presence improved LO's driving to the hoop and won a lot of road games which surely lost them if Kwame was still in the line up. Viva Pau, Viva Catalan but Horray for USA in the Olympics!

Finally, without you Pau Gasol Kobe will opt out his Laker contract at the end of '09 season.

When Pau Gasol learns the tricks of hook shots, pivot moves from the great one, Kareem....move over, Showtime is back with Kobe, Drew & Pau... I will reserve the last one, will it be Artest or Odom?

Kwame recently tried out with the Bucks for the 3rd string backup to Gadzuric. Enough said.

MH

Oh yeah,

I totally forgot about Miller's drug suspension.

If they trade for Odom, they have to get rid of Miller too. They don't want those guys getting high before games together, not that there's any proof either one is currently getting high while games are played.

Laker Tom,

I love that trade. I am unable to comment on the numbers, whether or not it works or not is doable or whatever. Hell I don't even care! Cuzt anybody who takes the time that you did to figure that all out, must know WTF he's talking about, so I give you your props!!

troy,

giving Pau a D+ is just completely unreasonable and probably the most incompetent assessment a person can make about a player's impact on a team.

Pau's play made the Lakers a championship contending team. You can't give players who help a team to the top of a conference a D+. Especially a player like Pau whose arrival made the Lakers #1 in their division and #1 in WC for the first time since 2004. I don't care if you say he's soft or if he disappeared in the playoffs (which he didn't), but the grades are given on overall impact of a player on a team and Pau's impact on the Lakers WAS BIG.

Edwin,

True, but even the Jazz, who were great at home and lost some key road games, did pretty well in the playoffs and had a pretty good record. To me, the Blazers played well against the Lakers last year. So the Lakers have to be very wary of them and not treat them or any team lightly.

I agree about the Spurs, Rockets, Mavericks, Hornets, Suns and Jazz being playoff contenders. But I really do see the Blazers in that mix as well. Maybe OKC, Denver, and Kings might make some noise but yeah, those are my "to look for" next season teams.

LakerTom,

Lakers trade:
-----Lamar Odom
-----Luke Walton
-----Chris Mihm

Kings trade:
-----Ron Artest
-----Brad Miller

----------------

While I like this trade in theory, I doubt the Kings would buy
into it. If you're trying to dump salary, you don't take a big
contract (like Luke's) back. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, there's
more money remaining on Luke's contract than on
Miller's.

And what's more, Miller is the Kings starting center, their
4th leading scorer, and plays the 3rd most minutes on the
team. So he's actually EARNING the 11 million he's being
paid, as opposed to Thomas and Abdur-Rahim who have
been too injured (Abdur-Rahim) or ineffective (Thomas)
to get into the rotation. Thus, trading Thomas or Abdur-Rahim
would be considered a salary dump. Trading Miller would
be considered trading a quality player. If you really want
that deal to work, you'd have to make it something like
Odom + Mihm + Ariza + Farmar for Artest + Miller, but
that would be much more damaging as you'd be trading
off two of the core players (Odom & Farmar) that took the Lakers
to the finals last season, as well as a player the Lakers have
future hopes for (Ariza).

Much as I know a lot of people here hate Luke and would
love to dump him off at any opportunity, you've got to consider
that if you think he's not worth his money, then the GMs for
opposing teams probably think the same thing.

Here's my advice if you want to make a trade involving Luke.

First match up the salaries. Then check the PER's of the
player or players coming back vs Luke's PER.

For example:

Lamar's 2008 PER - 16.94
Luke's 2008 PER - 12.37
Chris Mihm's 2008 PER - 7.73

Brad Miller's 2008 PER - 16.82
Ron Artest's 2008 PER - 18.89
Kenny Thomas' 2008 PER - 2.59
Shareef Abdur-Rahim's 2008 PER - 5.48

So for a player like Mihm, who's just an expiring contract
in the deal, you can ignore his low PER. But if the team
is expected to take on Luke Walton for 5 more years, why
would they give up a much more productive player?

Thomas for Walton? maybe
Abdur-Rahim for Walton? maybe
Miller for Walton? no

I still say, give Lamar a chance before trading for Artest. I want to see the lineup of Lamar, Drew, Pau and Kobe on the floor. Until then, NO MORE TRADE RUMORS PLEASE.

Benjamin ,

What's wrong with you? Don't you know Jerry Sloan is a total Teddy Bear!

Re: Jerry West

It's odd that there isn't a blog reaction (not a peep) to Jerry's comments about Bynum and Gasol playing together.

LakerTom,

You do not have the benefit of listening to Steve Hartman, Vic daBrick and Mychal Thmpson out there in Bay Area. However, try to download here the top 10 winners and losers of Steve Hartman when he said that the LAKER DOCTORS HAVE NOT CLEARED BYNUM TO PLAY. HE IS NOT EVEN CLEARED TO RUN. It means his clearing of spurs on his knee is not yet completely healed, that's the participation of Lakers doctors there, they provide the clearance. All the while, I thought these doctors are linked to his diagnosis, analysis and rehab period of Drew, now it appear that there are two sets of doctors, Drew's doctors and Lakers doctors. I never imagined that this injury would turn into so many twists and complications. When Big Game James had a injury, they put a pin on his foot, it was not celebrated, as complicated and as sensationalized as this. Please listen to the podcast of the Loose Cannons today, here is the website:

http://allaccess.am570radio.com/loosecannons

Jerry Buss will not love any increase in the payroll. lol The reason they are moving Odom is to avoid the 14M. If there will be an increase of payroll as a result of Artest acquisition, Jerry Buss will nix it from the bud. You are again targetting the 90M mark.

Better offers:

Odom = Artest + 2 second rd draft picks '09 & '10 + cash

or

Odom = Artest + 1st rd draft pick '09 + cash

Aloha long Time

Great points on Pau, I might add that Duncan a 50% shooter for the season shot only 42% against Pau.

I would just like to know who these Pau critics think they could get? Duncan and KG are both 1st ballot hall of famers that arent going anywhere. How many Power Forwards out there could have even played center? I mean Carlos Boozer? Pau destroyed him in the playoffs. David West? To small. Who do they want? Amazing.

MH

giantsquid,

I was quietly concerned about that statement that was shown on Fox Sports net with Jerry West on the mic.

But then again some of his thoughts on Drew Gooden as a versatile guy that can play the SF, PF and Center position may have been a bit of a stretch.

In my opinion, AB and PG offensively will be ok. It depends on the defensively philosophy of the Coaching Stuff in utility of the Trees.

Wow....ONLY 4 losses with him playing his share of minutes???

I'll take that SOFT anyday!!!

I can't wait until next year. We are going to make these other elite teams QUESTION their abilities.

I can already see DUNCAN with arms out and his head sideways looking for pity from the refs.

You need to ask the LAKERS for pity Timmy.

Lakers = TEAM OF THE 2000's!!!

janaya

Getting ready to watch the summer league game. Even though I'm pretty sure no one (maybe one) from the team will actually make the Lakers. It will just feel good to watch some "Laker" basketball. I'm telling you. James White is a beast.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

I hate this period of the season.

"The Blogmunity Season of 12,000 Crazy Trade Scenarios."

Urgh.

GO LAKERS!

giantsquid,

>>>It's odd that there isn't a blog reaction (not a peep) to
>>>Jerry's comments about Bynum and Gasol playing
>>>together.

excellent point.

I consider Jerry West a much better judge of talent than some
other people (say Rick Fox for example), so it concerns me a little
that he thinks that Bynum & Gasol won't work well together.

We know that Odom & Bynum work well together. Maybe
we should be talking about trading Gasol for Artest instead
of Odom.

(...he said, lighting the fuse on the powder keg)

Lakers vs Detroit Summer League

is on NBA TV

Directv 601

Lakers vs. Piston
Summer Pro league being played at this time on NBA Channel

Long Time Laker Fan

I agree with you trading Gasol for Artest (and other parts of course) would make more sense if we're really interested in defense and toughness.

Look at the picture of Gasol at the top of this post. Nobody questions that he just dunked the ball. Now replace Gasol with Kwame Brown, and leave everything else the same. Everybody who sees it is thinking "I can't believe he dropped another pass right underneath the basket!!" Now ask yourself, who is soft?

Long time Laker Fan,

You proved my point about Pau being Fools Gold. As I said, he's a good player who's uneffective, and this confuses everyone but the most intuitive, analytical fans.

As I mentioned during the playoffs, I'm not a cheerleader fan. I'm an analytical fan. Some confuse this for being a troll. However, a troll's main purpose is to annoy. My main purpose is to study.

The reason why Boston and Miami won was that they had older, EFFECTIVE players. Not necessary good players, but effective. To win championships, you need EFFECTIVE players.

Look at the Blazer and Kings teams of the late 90's. Look at the Suns as of recent, or the Mavs 2 years ago. These are all example of good teams that didn't have EFFECTIVE players.

Here's another example of what I'm saying. Consider Smush Parker.

Smush was actually a pretty good player when you think about it. He had a decent perimeter game, he could drive well, usually finish well, and he ran the offense. However, he wasn't an EFFECTIVE player. Now, you can blame Phil for not using him correctly (same for Pau), or you can blame the player for not making the necessary adjustments (again, same for Pau). Bottom line, neither Smush nor Pau helped the Lakers win when they needed contribution.

In order for the Lakers to win another championship, we need EFFECTIVE players, like Ron Harper and Rick Fox use to be for us. Like James Posey was for Celts. Right now, we have a lot of GOOD players (like Pau), but no effective players.

1stQ Piston 20 vs. Lakers 15
Leading scorers: Rodney Stuckey for Detroit and Coby Karl for the Lakers. Joe Crawford has not shown any flair, he's another short-shortie with T/O's so far. IMO Coby Karl is better than Luke Walton, at par with Farmar.

Peanut Butter,

I would give Pau a B- for the regular season, and an F for the playoffs (the REAL season).

That averages out to a D+.

Look , I don't care what you do in the regular season. If you can't perform in the championships, you are deemed ineffective and useless.

If only the Palms' Brothers will make the deal...

Artest is a rare talent - that being a player with abilities that most closely match the cross-roads of the competitor's compass.

Okay, I'm not crazy (yet...) Let me explain.

North-South-East-West, right? Two continuums, set at right angles to one another. For basketball, think of strength vs speed, and skill-set vs mind-set. Height or length are not included - these are independant variables that don't change and that everyone can agree on in every circumstance (excepting VERY young players that continue to grow during the season, like H.S. level).

Still sounds crazy...examples are in order.

Shaq occupies one extreme - strength. His teammate - Barbosa - is at the other extreme, speed. Neither of them have great balance on the other axis - Shaq has a weak skill-set, Barbosa a lesser mind-set, so while both are "good," neither by himself is a game-breaker, and each must now be considered "complimentary."

Now, considering the two principal talents that may or may not be exchanged for one another:

Lamar Odom is very well balanced between strength and speed - almost ideally so for a basketball player. But on the other side of the continuum, Lamar is heavily weighted toward skill-set. He has tremendous basketball skills, but lacks the mental approach that enables him to impose his will against determined opposition. Now, for arguments' sake, imagine a player on the opposite extreme - a determined mind-set, but lesser skills, and names like Ruben Patterson and Clarence Weatherspoon come to mind - dudes that will take it to the hole repeatedly, and get their shots blocked again and again, but who refuse to learn from it and keep trying the same things. Imagine if Lamar attacked the rim with Ruben Patterson's mind-set - he would average 40pts a game and be MVP every year. But that's not him, and that's not his fault.

Artest is also extremely well balanced between strength and speed. What seperates him from Lamar is that, crazy as it sounds when talking about a crazy man, Artest has much better balance between his skill-set and his mind-set. Lamar represents a "problem" for his opponents to "figure out." Once they do this - assuming they have the physical ability - they can take him out of his game.

Artest is different: if you're faster than me, I'm stronger than you; if you're stronger than me, I'm faster than you, and (this is the key point!) THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Now, I'm not saying that Artest is a transcendant player - one that can simultaneously occupy the extreme on all four measures at the same time - there has only been a few of those in recorded history.

But Artest is, at present, the closest thing to a perfect balance of the four opposing spectra since Charles Barkley.

While I'm blathering about this...Just like you can combine north and west, and call it northwest...

If you overweight speed with skill-set, you get FINESSE.
If you overweight strength with mind-set, you get POWER.
And if you have decent speed and strength, but no skill-set or mind-set whatsoever, you get KWAME BROWN.

Respectfully,
HIGH CHEESE

Vlad and Gasol for Miller, Artest and a 2nd round draft choice

(note: I personally don't think any trade, including this one, that isn't an outright gift should be made. geez, the Lakers went to game 6 of the NBA championship without Bynum, probably their 2nd best player, or Ariza, a key reserve. All this trade talk is crazy. The team has great chemistry now and will probably be the favorite to win the championship this coming season. Why take a chance on making a trade that could blow up in our faces (and don't tell me that is improbable if Artest is part of the deal).

Uh, excuse me. Pau's coach, the legendary Phillip Jackson, called Pau's game soft. And so did many of the the assistant coaches and those in the sports media. I'd say these are authoritative sources.

Lets not be in denial, guys. If you want to try to sell the idea that Pau is a great player, so be it. But it's documented that Pau is a soft player.

That is undeniable.

Caliphilosopher,

You’re welcome. I have thought the same after reading many of your posts.

Tom

Great article by Charlie Rosen on the potential LO-RA trade:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8333122/Artest-to-
Lakers?-Crazy-enough-to-work

Here is his bottom line:
"So, then, factoring in all the knowns and all the guesses, the Lakers bringing in Artest certainly involves their taking considerable risks. But if dethroning the Celtics is the organization's uppermost motivation, then it's a gamble well worth taking. In truth, it's a gamble they absolutely must take"

A gamble they must take...I agree. Pull the trigger, Mitch!

Just read this,

MILWAUKEE (AP)—Milwaukee Bucks center Andrew Bogut will sign a five-year, $72.5 million extension later this week, his agent said Wednesday.

If Bogut is worth 72.5, then AB is worth 80.

HIGH CHEESE,

Brilliant analysis. Your post is similar to what I mean by my analysis of a GOOD PLAYER VERSUS AN EFFECTIVE PLAYER.

I love Lamar. He's a good player who is not effective. I think Ron Artest is an effective player. He's good, too, but he's more of an effective player than Lamar is.

Lamar won me over this season, and I would hate to see him go. But if it means trading a good player for an effective player, I say go for it.

lakersrydeordie,

Thanks. I almost never make trade proposals because they are too fantasy league for me but I thought this made good sense for both teams. The problems with concocting trades is that you have to make too many assumptions about what teams want and will accept. And assumptions can be twisted to support whatever trade you might dream up.

For example, I assumed the Kings would be willing to trade Miller instead of Thomas or Abdur-Rahim because his contract is bigger and ends the same time and Steve Hawes is set as their future at center and the likely starter. Thus a Mihm for Miller trade would give them Chris’ expiring contract and their backup center for Hawes.

The tougher assumption, of course, is that the Kings would take Walton and his 5 year contract. I assumed they would because I think Luke fits their style of play and the Kings actually get help in lowering their salaries because of Lamar’s $14.5M expiring contract replacing Artest’s $8.5M expiring contract.

Of course, the Kings end up paying more salary long term due to Luke’s 5-year $26M contract but their main concern is the year after next when LeBron et al go free agent. Bottom line, however, the Kings get Lamar, who would be perfect for what Petrie wants to do, which is run. They get a guy they probably would look to re-sign long term, whereas they had already decided Artest was not coming back.

Anyway, I doubt anything is going to happen but this would be a great deal for the Lakers because it would get them Artest and save them over $20M in luxury tax down the road. Jeez, no more trade proposals for me. They are just too crazy and unpredictable.

Tom

Half Time Score Pistons 42 Lakers 32 Leading scorers are Stuckey and Affalo while the Lakers Coby Karl. I don't see any promising players here from Crawford and Kemp and I have not heard anything from Davon Jefferson. Mata-Real was a good in defense but accumulated fouls so he's a poor man Turiaf.

Commentary about broadcasters.....

The announcers on this game are borrrrring! The game is already being played by college kids with lot of athleticism but translated into too many turnovers due to travelling calls, poor ball handling and still broadcasters don't make any play-by-play broadcasting but more on analysis-paralysis of their own takes, their own experiences, their own spins just like listening to Joel Myers. While the game is being played in the 2nd Q., they interviewed Leon Powe, the Celtic Champ. By gosh, why don't you interview him during timeout or between quarters? I think I will never come across another Chick Hearn who would provide enthusiam even at his late seventies and make the game interesting to watch and listen. He described plays with creativity and the audience are his first priority. He would let the celebrities wait and stay on the sideline while he made his own priorities. The sportscasters of today have no conviction but just kept on yacking about them, why don't they just join us in blogging if that's what they will do on the air?

Long Time.

I’m sure you’re probably right. I was just trying to avoid taking Thomas or Abdur-Rahim as fodder that would take up salary cap and roster space. I had heard that Hawes was going to start and Miller come off the bench since he would be gone year after next. Oh, yeah, and get rid of Luke and save money at the same time. Impossible for sure. LOL.

The Kings are shooting to play in the free agent market the end of the season after next so Miller would be traded next year or just let go to free up cap space, just like Thomas or Abdur-Rahim. In fact, all three guys comprise a $38M expiring contract right before LeBron et al can go free agent. Petrie has them in a pretty sweet spot and it will to be to get somebody big to go to Sactown. LOL.

What I thought was the cool thing that might make a deal like this go is that it really helps the Kings free agency situation since most of Luke’s contract doesn’t hit until after that. For the Lakers, cutting $7.5M in salaries saves $15M down the road.

Don’t respond because it is not worth it. Just a old timer’s try at fantasy basketball. LOL.

Tom

HoopsWorld says Spurs also trying to sign Garbo.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9441

Tom

Long Time.

The other thing that I forgot to mention about Miller was what gave me the idea in the first place, which was his 5-day suspension by the NBA for recreational drugs. That could be t