Artest

Hey I know he's a mad man. But let's not let, say, San Antonio pick him up!?

Duncan
Parker
Ginobili
Artest
The Brazilian who never shoots

That would be a tough starting lineup.

John

I am not an addict, I can quit Laker Blog ANYTIME I WANT!

Hey...hey man, do you think I could, y'know, just borrow your laptop for a second...I need to, uh, check my email.

Thanks.

WHAT?! Coby Karl got a D????? Oh man, I just gotta type my feelings, so many feelings. I just have to say something to Let's Go C's...he's such a pill. What's Kobe doing right now? Is Mitch calling to inquire about Kurt Thomas? All of these feelings...

Lakers...Lakers...Lakers...(drooling all over shirt)

Maybe we are addicts. I also hope we sign Ronny.

Phunk36=Chucky23.........................Hay Phunk i mean chucky who is it. I know Phunk and chucky same identity. Give it up dude your hate for P.J., AK and BK and Luke Walton has something in common. And i believe its race based .You`r a racist and a bigot, give it up dude.

JLF,

>>>David herein referred to as agent- Drew already is
>>>one of the best centers and on par with Dwight and
>>>better than Amare so why not pay him now? And yes
>>>Drew can play at this level.

Mitch:
Well, let's see. Dwight played 82 games this season, averaged
20 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks, and made the All-Star
team. All of which are significantly
higher than
what Drew performed this year. And in their one head to
head meeting, Andrew scored 10 and had 6 rebounds, while
Dwight scored 17 and had 8 rebounds, and the Lakers lost.

Oh, and Dwight, who also came out of high school like Drew,
was in good enough shape his rookie season to play 32 minutes
a game for all 82 games and he has never missed a game due
to injury his entire career.

So what exact criteria makes you think that Andrew is
"on par" with Dwight?

And Amare played 79 games this season, and averaged
25 points, 9 rebounds, and 2 blocks. And he also made
the All-Star team and was the leading scorer for his team
in the playoffs.

Amare had 33 games last season where he had at least 20 points
and 10 rebounds. Drew has had 5 such games in his
whole career.
Dwight had 11 games where he had at least 30 points and 10
rebounds. Drew has never scored 30 points.

Nothing personal Andrew, but while your agent may say
that you are better than those two players, clearly the facts
don't bear it out and the rest of the league doesn't agree
with his assessment. If your agent were being honest with you
and with us, he would have compared your performance to players
like Andrew Bogut or Andris Biedrins. In your very best 4 or 5
games, you've played at a higher level than those two, but
averaged over each of your best months your numbers are
comparable to theirs.

Except for the fact that Bogut played 78 games last season
and Biedrins played 76.

I wonder if any of you will still be Ronny fans when he's playing ruff and doing dirty things to the lakers players becuase he will, don't kid yourself about that. I've always said that I like/love Ronny as a laker but on another team I would probably hate him.

I can't wait to read the blog after the first hard foul ronny puts on Gasol or Bynum and see how many ronny lovers will still be singing his praises.

JLF,

>>>[Then agent replies Mihm and Kwame are not the
>>>same talent level as Drew and their injuries are of no
>>>relevance to Drew’s injury status.]

And Mihm and Kwame were both paid considerably less
than we are offering Drew.

Though the injuries are unrelated, the consequences would
just as devastating to the Lakers if we blindly paid Andrew
the maximum that we think he would be worth if fully healthy
and then his injury persists and limits him to a much lower
level of play. In fact, since the size of Bynum's contract will
be much larger, the effects of a persistent injury would be even
more devastating.

>>>[I like to think of Drew as that unique player you
>>>described to be more like Kobe anmd play through
>>>various injuries.]

Yes, Kobe is remarkable, isn't he. Kobe was on the floor
for the playoffs playing through his pain. If Andrew was
a fast healer like Kobe, he would have been on the floor
for the playoffs. Since he wasn't, you can see why we're
concerned.

>>>[A fluke injury does not make Drew injury prone
>>>unless of course all Lakers are injury prone with
>>>LO’s feet]

Players step on other players feet all the time in this league.
Dwight Howard does it a hundred times a season, yet he's
never
had a "fluke" injury that's made him miss 1 game.

Andrew missed most of his senior year of High School with an
injury, then came into the league too out of shape to play more than
a few minutes per game. To his credit, he did get into shape
last summer and had a lot more stamina this season.

While you might say that this was just a freak accident and
that Drew will never have another bad injury in his career,
the evidence of the past four years tends to point in the opposite
direction.

If you honestly believe that Andrew will have no major injuries,
then he should have no problem making the modest incentives
and he will be paid what you are asking. So which is it?
Do you believe that Andrew will stay healthy and will be
paid the maximum? Or do you not believe that Andrew will
stay healthy?

john_in_houston,

Absolutely! Send Ron Bill Ron Ron d'Artest to San Antonio!

I'm sure Ron Bill Ron Ron will THRIVE having Popovich constantly yelling and screaming at him! That's just what Ron Bill Ron Ron needs to focus himself!

Championship for the Spurs and Ron Bill Ron Ron! MVP for Ron Bill Ron Ron!

GO LAKERS!

Mamba,

You know what to do. Put me on the Fish for an A, or is it the an A for the Fish bandwagon?!

--Fearless

Fearless,

We wouldn't have gotten past Utah if it weren't for Derek Fisher, let alone made it to the Finals.

If that's not an "A", I don't know what is.

However, I suspect that BK has been drinking fermented bass juice fresh out of his "Bass-o-matic" and it may be impairing his judgement a bit.

BK! Lay off the hard stuff when you're doing grading, okay?

GO LAKERS!

AK-BK

Time for a new thread that doesn't contain the word Fisher and the letter/symbol B+ in the same paragraph.

Love for Kevin. Not the that Kevin
http://tinyurl.com/5swejg

Long Time,

>>>>> So you've sat in on NBA players negotiating their contracts
>>>>>frequently, huh? That must be interesting.

Yes, let me tell you about the time I negotiated George Mikan’s first pro contract way back…

OK, while I have never sat in on an NBA player negotiation, I have been on both sides of the table negotiating business contracts worth millions of dollars and employment contracts worth hundreds of thousands. Incentives in NBA contracts are handled similarly to how incidentals are in a business contract or benefits are in an employment contract. They are dealt with after the principle terms of the deal have been reached.

Long Time, I am not saying your idea for an incentive laden contract for Drew is without merit. I understand the reasons you want to do it. In a perfect world, I would even agree with you that it would be a better way to compensate players. But in the real business world, the last thing you are going to do is to risk NOT getting Andrew signed to an extension by trying to sell him on a radical new type of compensation and contract. That is the business reality of the situation.

>>>>>Unique situation. Unique player. Unique contract offer.

Critical situation, Franchise player, NOT the time to monkey around.

Tom

Most of us have had a personal interest in watching Kobe develop these last years and Andrew is the new kid on that block. It pumps up the fan experience.

But finance is a different department. There's sound historical reason to question the longevity of NBA big men.

At present Andrew's only a franchise player in that the kind of money that's on his table would kill the franchise if it turns out he has a knee, foot or hip "issue" that's revealed over a season. Why bet the max on a doctor's opinion when you don't have to. If he becomes Cap 2, you pay him accordingly... then.

Somewhere in Jon K's AB Bio Chrono reading I'm sure it says that Andrew won't tend to get so insulted by a cautious offer from the LA Lakers that he bolts for New York.

exhelodrvr,

To be honest with you, I think the players who we could say "We wouldn't have gotten to the Finals without him/them" are:

Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Pau Gasol
Derek Fisher

That's it. I love this team dearly, but these four got us (nearly) to the Promised Land.

Everybody else could have been replaced with similarly competent players and we still would have excelled.

GO LAKERS!

exhelodrvr,

Probably correct.

I just think that Kobe, Lamar, Pau, and Derek brought unique gifts they have to this season and that those players really made a difference.

GO LAKERS!

This is ridiculous. Odom gets an A and Fisher gets a B? Fisher deserves at least an A- and I would give Odom a C-. Night after night of hearing about how Odom creates match up nightmares, but never seeing him take advantage of ANY of them, definitely makes him tradeable to me.

Good column by Mark Stein:

http://tinyurl.com/5cwsne

Offering a max contract to a "potentially great" player who has not
yet exhibited full greatness and who was too out of shape to play
more than a few minutes a game one season and who was
injured for more than half of another season: THAT is gross negligence.

Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 17, 2008 at 10:32 PM

----------------------------------
LTLF
Wow, assesment based on a rookie 17 yr old out of HS first yr with no love or support from PJ. 2nd yr , sophmore jinx and again no PJ love even though he was starting to show signs of his dominance. PJ set up conditioning excuse which Bynum accepted as constructive criticism.

But look at playoffs wih funs that yr and you will see he was demanding double coverage by funs but PJ refused to exploit that mismatch. No way you could convince me with those short minutes that he was winded. BS.

Again every Laker is injury prone by your standards sinces LO's foot caused injury. He hurt other players with his feet so all Lakers are injury prone and should be paid less. Get real now.

JustaLaker,
"make him injury prone. "

Combine that with the significantly extended recovery time, the fact that he missed most of his senior year high school basketball season, and the fact that he has a wider-than normal pelvis for someone his size and is slightly bow-legged (from one of the medical reports) which makes these type injuried more likely, and the answer to your question, at this point, is yes. Which is why Bynum needs to prove himself physically before getting a max contract.

Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 18, 2008 at 07:45 AM

-----------------------
Ex,
I respectfully disagree. His body was different in HS and not fully developed. You can't compare an adolecence body to a mans body. Yes Drew is bigger and stronger than he was then and he is a young man not a teenager. His body is more developed now.

Knees? Really how can you say his knews affects his propensity for injuries? On what medical data do you base that on? Also even if there is a bit of credence to your point of view, does not advanced medical technolegies be utilized even as simple as a knee brace?

The long timr recovery was due more to the hope he would be able to come back in 6-8 weeks without surgery so he would be able to come back in time for playoffs. He did not heal and kept getting extended but not for his slow healing process rather that hoping his injury would heal sans surgery. It became apparant after all the lost time it was not going to be the case and with 20/20 hindsight arthoscopic surgery would have been the better option from the start.

Also I have said use training camp and preseason to prove if physically ready. Again with the max contract again.
I have said I hope they sign him to a contract in which both sides are mutually agreeable to value. Whether it be like Boguts contract or whatever. No matter how much or little so long as both sides are happy. That means max or less what ever both sides agree on.

i was willing to let it go... but, no one seems to give AK and BK any credit.

Look, i like Fish as much as anyone. He's 3000% better than Smush and his terrible attitude. Fish played near his career highs in many categories and was a huge boost to team morale and growth.

But, i do have to say that he disappeared often. He was virtually a non factor in the finals and even Cassell made him look soft.
Fish is what he is. I don't even know if he's capable of being an "A" player. I like the grade he was issued.

On a side note, i don't think anyone on our team should have gotten an A. Hopefully they are all doing their part to come into next season prepared, committed to Defense and bringing their "A - GAME".

Posted by: Benny Blanca | July 18, 2008 at 10:49 AM
====================================
=======

Benny Blanca,

The grade was not meant to determine what type of player he is in the NBA... this whole grading thing is meant to evaluate a players performance during the 2007-2008 season... SPECIFICALLY!

For sure.. FISH is not an 'A' player as you would surmise... 'A' players are in the likes of KOBE, DUNCAN, GARNET, LEBRON... and few others... Fisher, would be classified as a B- player in my humble opinion. But it doesn't mean to say that a B- player cannot perform to the best of his abilities that would merit an "A" performance... hence the season grading system.

Performance is so so different form classification... they are of two distinct animal... your opinion and some of us here, confuses this two, that's why this blog get all sorts of bruhaha about a B+ grade...

AK and BK should remind everyone of this.. that the grading system is for the performance of the player in this particular season, not how a player stack up with all other players in the NBA.

Cheers!

Any news on Turiaf?

it seems silent in laker land these days...

Story is here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba
/news/story?id=3496084

JLF,
>>>David herein referred to as agent- Drew already is
>>>one of the best centers and on par with Dwight and
>>>better than Amare so why not pay him now? And yes
>>>Drew can play at this level.
Mitch:
Well, let's see. Dwight played 82 games this season, averaged
20 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks, and made the All-Star
team. All of which are significantly
higher than
what Drew performed this year. And in their one head to
head meeting, Andrew scored 10 and had 6 rebounds, while
Dwight scored 17 and had 8 rebounds, and the Lakers lost.

[Agent -Ah Mitch, I see you attended LTLF’s school of negotiating. Of course we know stats can be manipulated any which way to support your position. Yes as you clearly stated those were great accomplishments for a starting center! Lets see if you recall Drew got limited minutes playing behind Kwame Brown because his coach misused him, before he became a starter. And still posted great numbers in a limited time before his freak injury by LO’s foot. Sorry if PJ takes offence but the truth is the truth. And note you did clearly state that was ONE game. But as I pointed out stats can be manipulated as Kobe got 28 points that game. Kobe is the primary scorer on Lakers, where as Dwight is the primary scorer for Magic. Lets see also Dwight came into the league in 2004 and got consistent playing and starting time as Magic but Drew came in two years later and was youngest player in NBA history at 17 years old and did not get consistent playing time especially considering he was playing behind Kwame Brown and we all know how well he turned out.]
Oh, and Dwight, who also came out of high school like Drew,
was in good enough shape his rookie season to play 32 minutes
a game for all 82 games and he has never missed a game due
to injury his entire career.
So what exact criteria makes you think that Andrew is
"on par" with Dwight?
[Agent-Mitch please review your history and you will see Dwight is injury prone especially in playoffs. Let me refresh your memory.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080629/SPORTS03/80629040/1051/rss16
http://www.dwighthoward.com/dwighthoward122605.htm
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210597
http://www.protrade.com/content/DisplayArticle.html?sp=S655b45b6-1988-11dd-b19d-0b9859abb9ee
And yes Drew is on par with Dwight as in another game he played him basically head up and considering Dwight has 2 yrs experience on Drew is a big thing in Drews favor.]

And Amare played 79 games this season, and averaged
25 points, 9 rebounds, and 2 blocks. And he also made
the All-Star team and was the leading scorer for his team
in the playoffs.
Amare had 33 games last season where he had at least 20 points
and 10 rebounds. Drew has had 5 such games in his
whole career.
Dwight had 11 games where he had at least 30 points and 10
rebounds. Drew has never scored 30 points.
[ Agent- Mitch, Mitch Amare was totally dominated by Drew . So Amare had good numbers versus lesser players , big deal. And Dwight again has 2 years head start on Drew with more playing time and experience but Drew did score 28 points in a game so 2 points difference and agin considering Kobe is the primary scorer. ]
Nothing personal Andrew, but while your agent may say
that you are better than those two players, clearly the facts
don't bear it out and the rest of the league doesn't agree
with his assessment. If your agent were being honest with you
and with us, he would have compared your performance to players
like Andrew Bogut or Andris Biedrins. In your very best 4 or 5
games, you've played at a higher level than those two, but
averaged over each of your best months your numbers are
comparable to theirs.
Except for the fact that Bogut played 78 games last season
and Biedrins played 76.
[ Agent-Mitch you really must stop talking directly to Drew as I represent him. It is really getting insulting that you twist statistics and call them facts. Then you compare Drew to Bogut and Biedrens. Totally insulting. Well we can go a few ways on this if you wish, as I am sure you can sign and trade Drew for Bogut or Biedrens or of course Drew can play his last year as unrestricted FA and see what he is really worth without having to endure these demeaning comparisons. What do you think Mitch want to seriously negotiate or play around. Just let me know so as not to waste my clients time or mine. Thanks Mitch, let me know what you say. Maybe before October 31st.]

Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 18, 2008 at 09:30 AM

JustaLakerFan,

>>>>> Agent -Ah Mitch, I see you attended LTLF’s school of negotiating.

>>>>> Agent-Mitch you really must stop talking directly to Drew as I represent him.

>>>>>What do you think Mitch want to seriously negotiate or play around.
>>>>>Just let me know so as not to waste my clients time or mine.
>>>>>Thanks Mitch, let me know what you say. Maybe before October 31st.

Like MasterCard claims, that was priceless. Long Time needs to go the JLF school of negotiating. LOL. After all, as Long Time himself says, it’s all about the “presentation.” Thanks for grabbing the baton and carrying on. You’re doing a better job that I did. Keep it up.

By the way, I really did not post this if anybody reads it. LOL.

Tom

Most of us have had a personal interest in watching Kobe develop these last years and Andrew is the new kid on that block. It pumps up the fan experience.
But finance is a different department. There's sound historical reason to question the longevity of NBA big men.
[Yes but which can be protected by insurance]
At present Andrew's only a franchise player in that the kind of money that's on his table would kill the franchise if it turns out he has a knee, foot or hip "issue" that's revealed over a season. Why bet the max on a doctor's opinion when you don't have to. If he becomes Cap 2, you pay him accordingly... then.
[Why do you say that? If he plays injury free next year and gets his contract, then what happens? Did his hypothetical injury prone problem you suggest go away? Can he be injured the following year? Insurance can cover that but there is no way to predict the future! It is all a gamble and you make the best educated guess trying to cover all your bases. As the saying goes put up or shut up. Sign or don’t sign is the question. As I have said sign him to a contract that both sides are happy with. Just my humble opinion.]

Somewhere in Jon K's AB Bio Chrono reading I'm sure it says that Andrew won't tend to get so insulted by a cautious offer from the LA Lakers that he bolts for New York.
[Cautious, maybe, but not demeaning offers and comparisons to inferior players. And with so many unpredictable variables bantered around is foolish. Negotiate from good faith stance and see where the happy median is. Ort we can let Drew go ala Ronny Turaff if he does go. Hard choices to be made no doubt.]

Posted by: Vman | July 18, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Posted by: LakerTom | July 18, 2008 at 01:50 PM JustaLakerFan,
Thanks for having my back with Long Time with your excellent comments about his presentation. It’s very much appreciated.
Tom
--------------
Not a problem. We see eye to eye on this one!
Thanks for your post as also much appreciated on both your props to me and your stance to LTLF and others who share their POV. Nothing like a healthy debate I say. LOL