Report Card - Lamar Odom
Business as usual: An off-season that features speculation over Lamar Odom's future with the Lakers, a ritual that gains even more intrigue this summer with his contract entering its final year. Business as anything but usual: Seeing Lamar Odom finally become the player everyone wished he could be, which ironically stemmed from finally being the player he wished he could be.
Until this season, Odom's time in purple and gold was spent operating outside his comfort zone, which is filling out the less glamorous sections of a stat line and not making points a primary concern. Middle ground was achieved in fleeting bits, which led to the consistent "inconsistent" tag. It's not that Lamar can't or won't score. He just doesn't have a scorer's mentality and happens to be the rare player actually honest when claiming not to judge a performance by points. When he gets the ball, his first instinct isn't to figure out how to make it stroke nylon. Never has been and never will be.
Can this be maddening? At times, sure. I too get frustrated by those "7 FGA" games (unless they're accompanied by as many or more free throws). But at the same time, players willing to let others "get theirs" ain't necessarily a bad thing. There's more to playing "aggressively" than points tallied. The trick finding a balance and for so long, LO was being used in a way that left him and the Lakers unbalanced. A square peg (an extremely versatile third/fourth option) forced into a round hole (20 ppg/second option expectations), and instead of finding a round peg, the Lakers seemed determined to make Lamar who he isn't. But then through one big roster change and the rapid development by one particular player, the need for Lamar to rack points in a specific way vanished. Then a funny thing happened.
Points - along with an more efficient and consistent game - finally began to flow.
People always describe Lamar's season as "taking off" upon Pau Gasol's arrival. And that's certainly the truth. But it's also an incomplete truth. We'd already seen LO flourish upon Andrew Bynum's sudden blossoming into a dependable low post presence. That was right around when Kobe Bryant declared his team a championship contender with Drew in the lineup... and of course, Lamar kicking arse as Alfred to their Batman and Robin. If you check out Lamar's game logs against Bynum's and Gasol's or on a month to month basis, the trends are pretty marked. LO's November (before Drew was a full-time starter) and January (much of which was spent pre-Gasol, post-Bynum) comprise the least productive 30 day sets. But everything else was pretty terrific. Career highs for rebounds (10.6, NBA-7th), FG % (52.5, with a scorching 59% after the All-Star break), career lows for turnovers (2.0) and treys launched (1.5, indicative of more time spent attacking the rack) and many other clips that simply represented his best work as a Laker.
On the other side of the ball, LO is often the team's most underrated defender and definitely among the more willing. Beyond that, his influence as an emotional leader shouldn't go overlooked. Many a Laker has pinpointed time in Hawaii eating killer team breakfasts, lunches and dinners as the kick off for the celebrated bond this season. Guess who decided to hire a private chef specifically because he thought a Helter Skelter summer needed a little smoothing? Finding better people in the NBA than Lamar is a tough quest and I do think that character is an asset. Was his season always perfect? No. Do the occasional brain cramps still surface? Indeed. Did he crap out at times during the playoffs? Yeah, especially against the Celtics, a series that featured one terrific Game 5, a great first half in Game 4 and scattered everything else. But at the same time, no Laker (Kobe included) played more than one game unquestionably good from top to bottom. All in all, 2008 treated Odom well and in turn, he paid it forward to the Lakers.
Which brings us full circle to where we are now: Wondering what becomes of LO. Roughly 90 seconds passed after Game 6 before many a reader began shouting from the mountain top, "Lamar needs to be moved ASAFP!" That a deal hasn't already been made whirls these folks in a tizzy. My advice for this contingent: Take a Xanax. Draw a bubble bath. Chill. There is absolutely no reason to panic, no reason not to see how Lamar plays with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol (or even off the bench as a sixth man) before deciding that he absolutely "can't" fit. If that's indeed the case, his contract won't be any less expiring in February than next week.
And if he can fit (which I personally think will be the case), you're looking at a chance to resign the league's best fourth option with Bird Rights at a discount (which he'll have to take no matter where he goes). Either way, learn what you have before speculating what you don't. This season was successful on many levels because of patience (with young players the front office believed in, with not acquiring the first "name" possible to appease Kobe, with getting the most out of Kwame's expiring deal), yet everyone gets all goony bird because the shorthanded Lakers lost in the Finals. If we learned (or should have learned) anything from the Caron Butler swap, it's that sending out a player before getting a full look at him with teammates over fears of "losing him for nothing," his "role," or money is a mistake. Thankfully, I'm confident the Lakers will maintain this mindset when it comes to LO. After the 2008 he enjoyed, they'd be silly not to.
Final Grade: A-
AK
Don't forget about the versatility of Lamars game. Many have commented on this value. If one of our bigs goes down, Gasol or AB, LO can step up to play the 4 and the Lakers will still win at a nice clip.
Besides, Mitch has already said no major trades. We are staying with our core, which is necessary to build a Championship quality team.
Mitch is quiet as a GM, but he his also very honest when he speaks. He also has said its not wise to make mid-season major trades, especially with the triangle.
Mitch will give us the best insight on what the Lakers plan to do. Listen to Mitch. If a trade happens with LO, which is unlikely, it will happen this summer, not during the season.***
*** If a trade does happen during the season, please disregard this statement.
Posted by: Fatty | July 05, 2008 at 01:47 PM
For the most part, I agree that LO provides value. He is as a good a rebounder that we have, and is a legitimate threat to score when he sets his mind to it. His defense is ok, not great. The intangibles that his attitude bring also provide value. So, I don't think we should trade him - at least not yet My biggest concern about LO is his shooting range and free throw shooting. I think Bynum and Gasol will make an outstanding backcourt next year. Gasol will be able to take his mid range jumper and flourish, while Bynum will handle the rough stuff in the paint. I don't think LO can play the SF effectively. That's why he will have to come off the bench. This means we have a gaping hole at the SF spot, let's face it, Vlad Rad won't get us over the hump. I would really like to see Ariza work on his jump shot - he showed flashes of it this year. That's where our MLE would be best spent.
AK/BK - any news on Vujacic or Turiaf? Have they had conversations with other teams? I think those are two highly underrated situations for us.
Posted by: Lincoln Laker | July 05, 2008 at 01:56 PM
LTLF
I think LO would take a very low contract, as long as he feels useful to the Lakers, and it has length of security. 7-8 mil with 4-5 years of security could be very enticing for a 30 year old not wanting to pick up and move, and enjoying NBA Titles.
Besides, what team would really give LO more and with length of time? Especially with FA money being so tight. Unless his agent is AB's Lee, who would want the max, LO would be advised to stay put and start his second career in LA.
Posted by: Fatty | July 05, 2008 at 02:02 PM
Hi All: I am way behind - but happy 4th wkend to everyone!
AK - agree with you on this one. To glimplse at LO7's season - I'd say it was an A-. He started out still recovering and got into the swing of things with a really good mindset.
He kicked it in, worked a lot on his mental game and the addition of Gasol made him flourish. I thought he played well during the playoffs but like the rest of the team only one good game during the Finals. If only the Lakers individually could have strung togehter four good games.
But could woulda shoulda doesn't get us anywhere. I am looking forward to LO7's start this next season. It's going to be the big experiment until February. He can make it or break it IMO.
My expectation is that he has a strong Summer - gets back to 100% both mentally and physically and we will have a determined LO come October. I can't wait.
Thanks AK and GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: PsychedLakerGirl | July 05, 2008 at 02:03 PM
HIGH CHEESE,
I loved your Celtics bar story and post comparing Lamar Odom and Shawn Marion and how their unique versatility and ability to play multiple positions makes them invaluable to their teams. There is no doubt that the Suns missed the Matrix’s solid defense.
I am going to be leading the parade of cheers for Lamar to continue playing breakout basketball when next season starts. And I can’t wait to see how Drew, Pau, and Lamar work together on the floor. It will be interesting to see just how dominant we will be. One thing for sure, the Lakers will own the boards with Drew and Lamar in there.
Mostly, I am looking forward to seeing Andrew in camp and pre-season games. Will he be all the way back? I predict the Beast will come back even better. If fully recovered, Andrew is going to dominate the paint like Dwight Howard wished he could.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 02:03 PM
Staples 24....I cant believe that in 2008 someone still has your mentality ....I also find it hard to believe that the times let the crap you just posted get through.....
You need help.....go get a life.
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 05, 2008 at 02:15 PM
We SUNS fans are wayyyy in favor of the lakers keeping O-dumb!
The dude is a mental liability, a kwame brown with a different name. Lamar has his nice moments but never when his team needs him most.
SHACK will make y'all wish you were wearing Purple and Orange jerseys soon enough!
Say, does kobee really need to play for the US team? Paul Pierce would be a better bet to bring home the gold!
Posted by: BUTLER | July 05, 2008 at 02:20 PM
Lamar is a good player with a lot of versatility as many here have already noted. I tend to agree that he is terribly inconsistent in clutch situations, doesn't seem to have worked on his game to improve his drives to the net or his mid range jumpers. He is a player that can thrill you or have you beating your head against the wall at his lack of decision making under pressure.
I think we will keep him and hopefully find a MLE at the SF position (like James Posey, especially if the Celtics sign Maggette) so Lamar can come off the bench as the do everything sixth man. That's an ideal position for him. I just don't believe he has the goods to start which needs to be realized if the Lakers are to win a championship. I am still skeptical that they have the toughness and desire to improve defensively. If this team played D with passion, they would already have a championship banner to show for it. You never know when or IF you will ever get back to a finals.
Posted by: Rob D | July 05, 2008 at 02:24 PM
Staples,
Are you seriously saying the Lakers need to get more black perimeter players because they shoot better and are more athletic than white players? That’s just as bad as saying the Lakers need to get more white players because they play smarter and under control. It may be Woody Harrelson and Wesley Snipes all over again but it’s still racism.
Frankly, I don’t care what color, creed, religion, or flavor my players come in and I don’t believe that the Boston Celtics won the NBA Finals because they had an all black roster. Are you really telling me we need to get rid of all of our white or half-white players? Also, you forgot Farmar, who is half-white, or is he good enough to be half-black? And what about Pau? Did he change his name to Bird, McHale, Price, or Nash?
Come on, Staples. The real reason that the non-performers left on the team are white is that we already got rid of the biggest non-performers and cancers who were black or at least looked to be mostly black – namely, Smush, Kwame, and Cookie. Even though they’re white, Luke and Vlade still played better than those three black players.
On second thought, maybe I just didn’t get the subtle humor or missed the “LOL.”
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 02:31 PM
Laker Tom
I will continue to beat the drum, to keep Lamar here for at least next season.
Think for a moment, if Howard had Kobe and Pau on his team, how good he would become. The guy would be well, .........more of a Beast than he already is. That's what we have with the Lakers and Drewski.
Now who's going to match up with Lamar. No one. Odom will become Beast 2. Just as Pau helped LO play better, adding Bynum to the equation will make Lamar even better. PJ has some excellent tools to work with. I'm excited, like PJ, Kobe, and Mitch to see this work out before our eyes.
Worse case Lakers scenario, we are an awesome team, best case scenario, dominating our way through the NBA for several years. ***
Enjoy the ride. This is going to be fun for all of us that enjoy violent endings to movies where the bad guys get it.
*** Legal Disclaimer: Lakers will not be held responsible for demoralizing NBA teams that attempt to stand in their way and are completely pulverized into mindless idiots.
Posted by: Fatty | July 05, 2008 at 02:33 PM
Long Time,
>>>>>“I think Corey Maggette might have done the Lakers a great service
>>>>>by opting out this year. He will act as a bellweather for good
>>>>>players who aren't quite all-stars hoping to get a huge payday.
>>>>>Basically, it's going to come down to a choice for Maggette:
>>>>>He can take a MLE contract and go to a team that's a contender,
>>>>>or he can get more than the MLE (and probably less than
>>>>>10 million a season) to go to a lousy team.”
The only problem is that Brand will likely take less to stay in LA, which will then leave the Warriors way under the cap and in the market for Maggette’s services. Maggette is not going to sign for the MLE with Boston or San Antonio if the Warriors pay more.
As for the precedent, it was really Shaq agreeing to sign with Miami for $20M and just yesterday with Arenas giving back $16M from the max contract offered by the Wizards. Look for Kobe to opt out and re-sign a similar less than max contract with the Lakers after next season. And $10M to $12M is a more realistic salary for Lamar to agree to.
Seriously, Long Time, your figure of $7M or $8M as a salary for Lamar just shows how out of touch you have become with what players are actually paid in the NBA today. Offering Lamar an extension at $7M - $8M would be taken as an insult for sure.
I love the logic you bring to the blog, Long Time, but your salary figures are consistently and unrealistically low. You may feel that this is all the players deserve but it’s the market that will set the players price – not your lowball financial sensibilities.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 02:56 PM
ex,
“The point is that the Lakers will still be able to sign him after next season. He is not going to play for one year at 4M and then go unrestricted.”
It’s amazing how much this year has changed the way you view everything Lakers. lol. Last year you would have been the first to point out the grave danger that Drew could become a free agent and we could lose him if we don’t sign him to an extension. Now you are foolishly willing to risk losing a franchise player to free agency. You may have ordered your eggs sunny-side up but they’re looking very over-easy.
The real point is that the Lakers will risk losing Drew to free agency with nothing in return if they do not sign him to an extension before October 31, 2008. I guarantee you that Jerry Buss and Mitch Kupchak are not going to allow that to happen. Drew is too important a part of the Lakers future to risk losing him for nothing – or have you forgot how dominantly he was playing during the two months before he got hurt?
First of all, the Lakers would not be able to sign Drew after next season if they fail to sign him to an extension this summer. The soonest we would be able to sign him to a contract would be after he plays out the 2009 season after accepting the Lakers’ qualifying offer. The summer between the third and fourth years of their contracts is the ONLY time these players can be signed to an extension until their contract expires per the CBA.
Second, even if Drew wanted to stay with the Lakers, his best and smartest course of action is NOT to solicit restricted free agent bids from other teams but just to accept the Lakers qualifying offer, play out the last year, and then become a unrestricted free agent. That would put the Lakers completely behind the 8-Ball and give Drew and his agent huge leverage to negotiate a max contract or else. Believe me, Drew’s agent knows this. And so does Mitch Kupchak.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 03:21 PM
Fatty,
Good stuff about Lamar. I think we will see just as big a domino effect when Drew comes back that we saw when we acquired Pau. Kobe may be the best player and the leader on the team but the player who really sets the table for the Lakers and the rest of the team is Andrew Bynum. Having the biggest, baddest, and meanest dude in the entire NBA covering their back will give the scrappy Lakers the jolt of toughness they need.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 03:31 PM
Staples 24 should be reprimanded for his racist post. Stereotypes? On the Lakers blog? Tsk, tsk. That ish doesn't belong here.
As for the topic at hand, I like AK's thinking on this one. Keep Lamar this season, let's see what the coaching staff can do with Andrew back and Lamar as a versatile 3rd/4th option, 6th man/starter, PF/SF/PG option. Having a shifting puzzle piece like that makes lineup shifts so much easier.
If it doesn't work out, we either let him walk (and take the 14.5 million dollar cap relief with it) or we re-sign him to a very discounted rate. He could have a significant place on this team, but at 14.5 million, it's tough to swallow because it keeps us from pursuing other players.
For those who keep clamoring for the Lakers to trade Luke and Vlad, please, just stop. I'd love to see them be packaged for a star (lol at the guy who made the AK47 trade idea!) but no one is going to do that when they both are underperforming, Vlad still has 3 more years left on his contract and Luke has 5!! Those contracts are absolutely killer. Nobody who has a half a brain would take those. Not even Chris Wallace. So get used to those two in a Laker uni for quite some time (barring another Mitch Kupchak MIRACLE).
I hope the Lakers do not sign Posey to the midlevel. He is a 31 year old ROLE player who over performed in contract years. His defense is above average, for sure, but he does little beyond hit the open 3. The Clippers made a big mistake in signing Tim Thomas after he KILLED them in the playoffs a few years back. We shouldn't do the same. We can find a similar player for much cheaper.
If the Lakers did not use their MLE this season, I would not be surprised. They've got some huge financial decisions to make over the next few years and adding another average guy for 5.5 million a season doesn't make the picture any less cloudy.
Anyone hoping for major changes is going to be disappointed. But this team is young enough and now, experienced enough to challenge for the title with minimal changes.
Posted by: puddle | July 05, 2008 at 04:31 PM
LakerTom,
I haven't changed the way I look at the Lakers. Still realistic. Bynum is NOT the biggest, baddest, meanest player in the league yet, and all he has shown is less than half a season of high-level play. I would trade him for Dwight Howard right now, and probably for Kevin Garnett, if given the opportunity.You think that he would sign a 1 year, $4M contract to become a free agent, rather than sign a long-term contract with the Lakers? The likelihood if that is less than minimal. THe likelihood of him not turning into a player worthy of a max contract is significantly greater than that. The smart move is to wait and see with him. Is his knee healthy? Does he have the same work ethic? is he still improving significantly? At worst it will be a little more expensive after a year than to give him a max/near-max contract now. At best it will save the Lakers from putting themselves in a hole for 5-7 years that will keep them from competing for a title. And he is not going to go elsewhere. You are letting your infatuation with his potential cloud your judgment.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 05, 2008 at 06:22 PM
So where is he supposed to play? He can't shoot the three for crap so what good is he at small forward? The Lakers don't need a 6'10" defender on the wings who's only offensive game doesn't extend 15 feet from the basket. His contract is a liability, period. Why wait until February to ditch him? Nobody has any interest in keeping him, and for good reason.
Posted by: Rick | July 04, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Rick,
LO can play all 5 positions and is very versitle. No team can be made up of 15 all stars. He brings a lot to the table.
Now if he starts he has shown he can defend well but can always improve. He is a very good rebounder and is like Rodman with better D and offense.
If he plays 6th man he will be playing against back ups so gives him better advantage. Also he does not really need a 3 point shot but can improve what he has. He is better suited to develop mid range jump shot as that will spread the floor just as well. For instance if opposing player lays back because not afraid of jumpshot he can drive and stop for midrange shot. If opposing player plays him tight he can drive to the basket. So 3 point shot is not as necessary to spread floor.
In all I would love it if he took a paycut but at worst stay the same and no pay raise as in a few years Sun Yue wil be ready to take over.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 06:53 PM
DOCTORS CLEAR LAKERS BYNUM
by Janis Carr for OCRegister.com
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bynum-season-knee-2084686-foot-lakers
“The knee looks wonderful and we are anticipating that within a short period of time, he will start training," Bynum’s agent Lee said. "The doctors told him the knee was doing better than expected."
Andrew plans to go to Atlanta in two weeks to start his summer workouts with Sean Zarzana, the same trainer that he worked with last summer. Andrew says there is no pain or discomfort whatsoever in the knee now and he is eager to start training to get ready for training camp in early October. Expect him to show up as the new improved Beast.
This is great news for both Andrew and the Lakers, who must sign Drew to an extension before October 31 in order not to risk losing him to free agency. Drew is asking for an $80M 5-year deal which extend his contract and would begin the year after next.
While I think the Lakers will be able to get a discount from Drew because of committing to him long term and because he wants to be in purple and gold, it would be a bonus for the Lakers if Drew was willing to commit to a 5 year deal rather than to a 3-year deal plus player option like Chris Paul just did with the Hornets and LeBron, Wade, and Bosh did in their last contracts in order to be able to opt out and sign an even bigger deal as a free agent with the same or a different team.
It is a positive sign that Drew’s agent is looking for a 5-year deal. It shows that Drew really does want to stay with the Lakers and we want to lock him up for as many years as possible, which in this case is 5-years. The 5-year deal will end up saving the Lakers considerably compared to what they might have to pay if the deal was just for 3 years.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 06:13 PM
I agree especially if both sides consider the deal fair.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 06:55 PM
ya!! i love lamar!
Posted by: weeeee | July 05, 2008 at 07:22 PM
Like most players LO isn't perfect, but he is a very good all around player who can do many things to help a team win. There are very few people who really understand basketball, which is surprising, because it is such a simple game. I had the advantage of learning the game in NYC during the golden age of NYC basketball from 1943 to 1960. Like most players of my era we learned in the playgrounds from the "older and bigger guys) who wouldn't pick us to play unless we were fundamentally sound. They taught up using tough love. LO is a trow back player who plays without ego and I guess in LA playing without ego is a bad thing, but having a teammate like Lamar who isn't looking to toss it up every time he gets his hands on the ball and will fight under the boards and set picks is Gods blessing. All of this criticism doesn't help keep a player like LO focused on doing his job. All of you Lamar haters are making the same mistake boys make when they look for a perfect girl and don't understand you look instead for a girl that is perfect for you. LO is perfect for the Lakers for the reason you criticize him. He doesn't need to score a certain number of points and he just wants to win. Remember there is only one ball and 5 players. Cobe needs to score, Pau needs to score, Bynum needs the ball inside so who is going to pass? LO will pass and doesn't keep requiring the points. Leave the guy alone he is the perfect fit!
Posted by: seanvert | July 05, 2008 at 07:47 PM
LakerTom,
I haven't changed the way I look at the Lakers. Still realistic. Bynum is NOT the biggest, baddest, meanest player in the league yet, and all he has shown is less than half a season of high-level play. I would trade him for Dwight Howard right now, and probably for Kevin Garnett, if given the opportunity.You think that he would sign a 1 year, $4M contract to become a free agent, rather than sign a long-term contract with the Lakers? The likelihood if that is less than minimal. THe likelihood of him not turning into a player worthy of a max contract is significantly greater than that. The smart move is to wait and see with him. Is his knee healthy? Does he have the same work ethic? is he still improving significantly? At worst it will be a little more expensive after a year than to give him a max/near-max contract now. At best it will save the Lakers from putting themselves in a hole for 5-7 years that will keep them from competing for a title. And he is not going to go elsewhere. You are letting your infatuation with his potential cloud your judgment.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 05, 2008 at 06:22 PM
----------------------------
Ex who would you say is the biggest baddest center?
Considering AB beat all the top centers. Except I can't remember how he played against Yao. But he outplayed the others in head to head.
Read this interesting article.
http://ballhype.com/article/
andrew_bynum_most_promising_center_in_the_nba/
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 08:37 PM
Another example of PJ playing head games and holding AB back.
http://slamonline.com/online/2007/12/
is-kwame-brown-better-than-andrew-bynum/
Why play head games. Just tell him you got his back and go play and improve. Show me and I will play you. Nope PJ's approch is I'll play Kwame over you.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 08:59 PM
See these past posts which are not far off what I am saying now. Dang those guys saw what I saw back then before I joined this blog as a regular;
----------------------------------------------
Anyone watching the game will the game will know that Drew more than held his own against Howard and played him even. Howard got most of his points when Drew was on the bench. Howard had ONLY 2 pts in the 4th quarter with Drew on him. PJ needs to show more faith in Drew and leave him in there more. The only reason
Howard's numbers were slightly better, is because he played more minutes and the Magic go way more to him inside than the Lakers do with Drew. The vets made some bad decisions in the final minutes and our so called shooters missed open jumpers. In the 4th quarter, Drew's mates passed him the ball ONLY once in the post!!! C'mon, they've got to give him more opportunities to go at Howard who had more fouls than Drew. For the life of me I don't know why PJ doesn't scream at the others to get it into the post!!! Drew had no shot attempts in the second half after going 4 of 8 in the first half. Drew even had more blocked shots than Howard and 1 less rebound(many of the rebounds were long due to long jumpers or Odom got boards because Howard was occupied with Drew). I really don't like the way that PJ uses Drew and that his mates don't look for him more. Once again the perimeter players couldn't guard their man(Dooling and Hedo made jump shots). The way I see it, Howard is not that much further ahead in his development than Drew, it's just that the Magic are maximizing Howard while the Lakers seem afraid to unleash Drew more fully. Drew played Howard to a standstill even though everyone including PJ and Stu Lantz(man, he was kissing Howard's ass throughout the telecast with hardly any compliments for Drew's play)were saying that Howard will have a big night. If Howard is suppose to be the next great big man, than Drew will be right up there with him if the Lakers coaching staff and players get their heads out of their collective asses and use him the right way. The "young", "inexperience" tag is starting to wear thin when it comes to Drew because this is his third year and the team has to use him more. It's funny, but it was the vets on our team that made some bad decisions down the stretch that cost us the game. Drew proved tonight that he's legitimate and if Kobe wants to save his legs and heroics for the end of games, I suggest that he and the other Lakers go inside to Drew more. In some ways the Lakers themselves are responsible for holding Drew back from becoming a dominant force in the middle. Imagine what Drew's numbers would be if he played with Nash or Lebron? Can you imagine what Shaq would be saying if he didn't get enough touches? Of course Drew still needs to earn his stripes and is nowhere near Shaq's status, but the Lakers are completely underusing one of the BEST BIG MEN IN THIS LEAGUE!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | December 02, 2007 at 10:04 PM
------------------------------------------
PJ needs to come out and give a good compliment about Drew's play against Howard tonight!!! He needs to stand by his big man and start realizing what a gem he has in Bynum. Howard blew up Amare Stoudemire and everyone else he's played so far this year, but had his hands full with Drew who didn't back down(both had a block on each other and several dunks). It sickens me when PJ makes comments that Mihm is doing well for us when Mihm has done nothing at all!!! Farmar was aggressive but made several bad decisions in the 4th quarter and Rad can't hit the ocean from outside right now. Kobe finds several of his mates for open jumpers or threes only to watch them clang off the rim. I don't understand why PJ doesn't work the ball into the post more because I thought that's how the Triangle is suppose to operate. Why doesn't he put more offensive burden on Drew instead of trusting the inconsistent outside shooting of Rad, Walton, Sasha, Farmar and LO?!!! I have a problem with Drew who's nearly 60% from the field is getting less touches and shots than our guards and forwards that are shooting less than 50 or 40 percent from the field. Frustrating, because everyone outside of the Lakers know that we have ONE OF THE BEST YOUNG BIG MEN IN THE LEAGUE!!! Opposing coaches must be very thankful that the Lakers don't use Bynum more and probably wonder why they don't take more advantage of Drew in the post. PJ isn't coaching up to the contract extension he just signed for 12mil over the next two years. Anyone can look at the boxscore and you'll know where I'm coming from.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | December 02, 2007 at 10:28 PM
HOWARD creating damage to every NBA team he goes to, tonight he was SLOW DOWN by our big man ANDREW BYNUM.
We should rebuild with the most important piece we have, a dominant Center and a talented Point Guard in Crittenton.
We do not need Kobe, Lamar and Kwame anymore. That's the truth.
Posted by: CHRIS | December 02, 2007 at 10:29 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------
1. TRADE PHILLIP JACKSON FOR ANY D.LEAGUE COACH
2. TRADE PHILLIP JACKSON FOR ANY D.LEAGUE COACH
3. TRADE PHILLIP JACKSON FOR ANY D.LEAGUE COACH
Posted by: fonzuhrelli | December 02, 2007 at 10:41 PM
If the Lakers has a different coach BYNUM and CRIT will be playing so much better now. Jackson is obsolete. If Mihm and kwame never git injured last year and this year, Bynum may very well be still sitting in th ebench or already have been traded without seeing his potential. Jackson never knew how to build talent, he always had talent with him.
He knows CRIT has talent but won't use him. He knows Bynum is getting better but still locks him up.
BYNUM and CRIT are the key to the next Lakers. I am pretty sure Jerry Buss already Knows this. Phil should step down and continue his services in the office.
The only way Kobe can stay with BYNUM, CRIT and the Lakers if he puts the team above him. Kobe's legacy will be defined if he can play without him playing superstar status, it is the only way he can win a MVP. As long as he always trt to be a hero, he will always fail.
Lamar and kwame is no point in arguing. They are both done as far as the Lakers are concerned. Only fools would believe they are still in the Lakers plan.
Posted by: CHRIS | December 02, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 09:16 PM
LO can play all 5 positions and is very versitle. No team can be made up of 15 all stars. He brings a lot to the table.
Now if he starts he has shown he can defend well but can always improve. He is a very good rebounder and is like Rodman with better D and offense.
If he plays 6th man he will be playing against back ups so gives him better advantage. Also he does not really need a 3 point shot but can improve what he has. He is better suited to develop mid range jump shot as that will spread the floor just as well. For instance if opposing player lays back because not afraid of jumpshot he can drive and stop for midrange shot. If opposing player plays him tight he can drive to the basket. So 3 point shot is not as necessary to spread floor.
In all I would love it if he took a paycut but at worst stay the same and no pay raise as in a few years Sun Yue wil be ready to take over.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 06:53 PM
Wow. You are wrong about so many things here. Where to begin?
1. Lamar can't play the 5, period. He's not big enough and not strong enough. 1-3 he plays with some difficulty.
2. He's not even close to as good a defender as Rodman. Rodman was a great, very strong individual defender capable of defending 5s. Rodman rebounding much better than Odom as well. And Rodman's help D was good too. Odom doesn't like to score very much and supposedly doesn't need to score with this current team.
Rodman is one of the top 10 all-time defensive players of the league. Odom isn't even close.
Rodman consistently played with heart, intensity, and physicality.
He was even a very good scorer in college and completely subverted his scoring role on his teams for the good of the team.
3. If Lamar plays sixth man, he will play against a back up here or there dependent upon minutes he plays. Other coaches will adjust their match-ups based on minutes and match-ups. You make it sound as if a sixth man gets put in with an entire 2nd unit (which was unusual in the league--mainly done by the Lakers). It just doesn't work that way.
4. Lamar can work on what he has? What does he have besides easy put-backs that he gets when opposing teams are overwhelmed due to other players that he misses when he doesn't feel like? Lamar doesn't have a decent mid-range jumper and doesn't have a decent 3. He can drive and do layups and dunks, but sometimes isn't focused enough to make the easy ones of those. The only thing he has is a good first few steps to the rim to finish a lay-up (that he too frequently misses) and easy put-backs when the other team is asleep at the rim or out of position.
5. Lamar doesn't have to get a 3 point shot, but he basically needs one. Gasol and Bynum are going to be taking up positions in the post and our offense is set up to spread the floor and it's best done by 3s. Why do you think Radmanovich got so much playing time this season? Why do you think we hired Vlad in the first place? Our SF basically needs to be able to make 3s.
All you folks acting like Lamar is being unfairly thrown under the bus for just a few games, or hasn't been given a chance, or is this infinite pool of talent that we're wasting don't need to defend him. His play can speak for itself and show all detractors the error of their ways, right?
Oh, yeah.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 05, 2008 at 09:39 PM
Can we all please stop with the arguing about Drew.
LakerTom believes what he believes without proof or reason, so let's all just let him do it. It's gerring pretty annoying reading his same post over and over to different people. It lacks good reason, which is why people who follow sports teams with fervor are called fanatics. If Tom ran the Lakers . . . I won't even get started.
Can we just move on?
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 05, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Lamar is a good option No 3, or 4, for a play off team., but is a no-option for a championship team. Unless they move him to the bench with the bench mob. Since he is not a good shooter, Zen will have to move him with the second unit and bring a shooter or defensive stopper at SF. This is how it is unless he change his mentality.
Posted by: sead94 | July 06, 2008 at 08:39 AM
We should NOT trade LO. Three reasons:
1) We made it to the finals. You do not need to make drastic changes when you make it so far into the playoffs.
2) We do not need another leading scorer. LO will get decent points, but he provides excellent rebounding skills. Who else will do that consistently? Pau?
3) Despite the corporate nature of reality, I still believe in loyalty and friendship. This team seems to personally gel. Sending LO away could disrupt our chemistry. We could go back to just being an assemblage of random guys.
THAT ALL SAID, LO does need to step up his consistency. He needs a psychologist. His shy temperament screws him. When he's doing well he is great. When he loses confidence he collapses. Zen master PJ should be on this.
Last thought, I do not know why we get so into talking about trading LO and give such a slide to Pau. I don't want to trade either. But it isn't as if Pau was a great consistent presence in the playoffs or finals. He became passive and disappeared too. Only when he disappeared, turnovers rather than rebounds silently accumulated. I don't want to trade either, but LO is not the type you boo like Kwame and expect greatness from. We should stop with this weird trade question already.
A -, I like it.
GOOOOoooOOOO LAAAAAaaAAAAAAAKKKKKKEERRS!!!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | July 06, 2008 at 09:27 AM
PS Remind me of why Drew is considered sooooo great. He averaged 13 pts per game. That is okay for a center. It is not dominant. What is his game high score? 18??? Am I forgetting a 30 pt game? What is the most Drew ever averaged over a month?? 15?
LO's PPG average couldn't have been too far behind Bynum's. LO averaged more rebounds per game. Centers should not be out rebounded by forwards if they wish to be called super stars.
I love both of them. But when he denigrate LO, give Pau a pass and treat Bynum like another Shaq, it puzzles me.
GOOOoooOOO LAAAAAaaAAAKKKEERRRSSS!!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | July 06, 2008 at 09:34 AM
Staples24,
>>>Mihm, Vlad, Walton, Vujacic, Karl should all must go. Lakers are too white and
>>>soft that's why we got bullied in the NBA Finals. Unless these white players are
>>>named Bird, Mchale, Tom Chambers, Mark Price or Steve Nash but they are not.
You are an ignorant man. Racism is ignorant.
Boston played an all black team and they won in the finals, so that means that you
can't win without matching them black for black. Is that it?
Tell that to Manu Ginobili, Brent Barry, Fabricio Oberto, Beno Udrih, and Matt Bonner --
all contributors to the champioinship winning Spurs in 2007. And none of them is
named Bird, McHale, Chambers, Price or Nash.
Tell that to Jason Williams, Jason Kapono, and Michael Doleac -- all contributors to the
championship winning Heat in 2006.
Tell that to Manu Ginobili, Brent Barry, Beno Udrih, and Rasho Nesterovic. Hey, look.
Three of those "white and soft" guys won titles in 2 of 3 years. And I might as well
throw Sean Marks in with that team, since he played as many minutes in the finals
as Coby Karl did.
Tell that to Mehmet Okur, Darko Milicic, and Bob Sura, members of the championship
winning Pistons in 2004. Note that that was the last NBA Championship team not
to have at least one "white and soft" starter.
Tell that to Manu Ginobili (hey look, a white guy who was a major contributor to 3
championships and wasn't one of your tiny little club of acceptible white men). That
year also included Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry.
Tell that to Slava Medvedenko, Mark Madsen, and Mike Penberthy in 2002 (not to mention
Joe Crispin) and 2001 (not to mention Greg Foster). Hey look! The Lakers won titles
two years in a row with 4 "white and soft" guys on their team each year. It must have
been a miracle. (Note that neither Crispin nor Foster played in the finals, but then, neither
did Coby Karl and Ignant Staples 24 is blaming him for the Lakers loss in the finals).
I could go on, but I think you get the point. This year's Boston team is the exception
rather than the rule. MOST NBA championship teams have at leat 3 or 4 white players,
and usually there are one or two who are major contributors (not just bench warmers).
While Staples 24 is correct that there are many more excellent black ballplayers than
white ballplayers in the NBA, he is ignorant and racist to propose that there is some
quota where if you have more than that number of white players you're doomed.
If that was the case, then how did the Lakers ever get past Denver. They only have
two "soft white" players holding them back vs the Lakers 6 1/2 white players (Jordan
Farmar is half white). Maybe Luke's "soft white" 14 points, 5 rebounds, and 4 assists
per game helped them. Maybe Gasol's 22.3 points and 9 rebounds per game helped
as well. And maybe Sasha's 8 points per and Rad's 8 points per helped a little as well.
Wow! Those soft white guys managed to average almost half the Lakers points against
those vastly superior black players that Denver has.
Staples 24, don't be ignorant. You're better than that. Come join us in the 21st century
where we know better.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 06, 2008 at 09:48 AM
I am not a racist I am just a concerned Laker fan, that's all. If I have sounded like a racist on my previous remarks, I did not mean it that way. I did not think I was, but obviously some of you thought I was.
But the fact still remains we have too many soft players.
Lakers are a championship team, YES! But it does not mean you can not improve from your glaring weaknesses.
Every year NBA team improves, even Celtics will improve from this year to next. Lakers should not be contented on its current status and must find a way to improve the "SOFT" label tag.
So, I leave it to you guys, the discussion of why we are soft? and why the Celtics took advantage of it.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 06, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Bye Lamar, nice knowing you. Hello Ron Ron, welcome to LA!
Posted by: Showtime | July 06, 2008 at 02:08 PM
bynum is huge offensively because he gets such high percentage shots, dunks
he was second behind howard in dunks while he was playing
high percentage points in the paint require interior defensive help and provides space to other players to operate
and
bynum got a lot of points off missed shots so instead of the other team throwing an outlet pass for a fast break opportunity we get an easy score, bynum was a huge factor that we were blowing teams out night after night
Posted by: HAHA | July 06, 2008 at 03:08 PM
Staples 24
"I am not a racist I am just a concerned Laker fan, that's all. If I have sounded like a racist on my previous remarks, I did not mean it that way. I did not think I was, but obviously some of you thought I was."
You may not be a racist, but those were racist remarks. You were defining the degree of ones blackness as to their abilities. The Nazi's erroneously used the same logic in reverse.
You say you meant nothing by it, but if you were a sportscaster, writer, politician, public figure of any kind, you would have lost your job over such a bigoted remark, and rightly so.
There is no room for that sentiment anywhere. The fact you don't think you have a problem, shows how deep your problem is. A simple, the Lakers need more athletic, aggressive defenders were needed. But in your heart, you saw the need to say it was a persons blackness, is what we need.
Please, open up yourself to people and cultures of all types. Read books. Open up your mind and heart to meet and get to know people of all types. Staples24 and those around you will be better for it.
Posted by: AN 1 | July 06, 2008 at 03:38 PM
Justa,
Howard is clearly a better center than Bynum at this point. You have to look at the body of work, not just a handful of games. Bynum has a lot of potential, and could end up better than Howard. But that line of thinking seems to assume that Howard is not going to improve. Howard has a huge amount of potential, too. This was only his fourth season, and he has made significant improvements each year. I don't think that he is close to his peak yet.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 06, 2008 at 03:51 PM
LO can play all 5 positions and is very versitle. No team can be made up of 15 all stars. He brings a lot to the table.
Now if he starts he has shown he can defend well but can always improve. He is a very good rebounder and is like Rodman with better D and offense.
If he plays 6th man he will be playing against back ups so gives him better advantage. Also he does not really need a 3 point shot but can improve what he has. He is better suited to develop mid range jump shot as that will spread the floor just as well. For instance if opposing player lays back because not afraid of jumpshot he can drive and stop for midrange shot. If opposing player plays him tight he can drive to the basket. So 3 point shot is not as necessary to spread floor.
In all I would love it if he took a paycut but at worst stay the same and no pay raise as in a few years Sun Yue wil be ready to take over.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 06:53 PM
--------------------------------------------
Wow. You are wrong about so many things here. Where to begin?
1. Lamar can't play the 5, period. He's not big enough and not strong enough. 1-3 he plays with some difficulty.
[Yes he can in a small lineup. Magic Johnson played the 5 when KAJ got hurt and he is 6"9". No LO is not as good as MJ but he could play the 5 in spots. Looks like you are looking for all star at every position of which I said all 15 players cannot be allstars. Same as 1-3. He did not play 3 as much due to injuries at the 4 so he was used thre more]
2. He's not even close to as good a defender as Rodman. Rodman was a great, very strong individual defender capable of defending 5s. Rodman rebounding much better than Odom as well. And Rodman's help D was good too. Odom doesn't like to score very much and supposedly doesn't need to score with this current team.
[He is better than Rodman as Rodman was a hacker and could not play perimeter defense. Rodman had better rebounding as that is the only thing he focused on and practiced. LO rebounds well as well as having better offense and defense(inluding perimeter) defense. LO does score if required but prefers to be facilitator of which Rodman never was.]
Rodman is one of the top 10 all-time defensive players of the league. Odom isn't even close.
[when you get a reputation as a good defender you get away with more fouls and hacks. See Bowen Raja etc]
Rodman consistently played with heart, intensity, and physicality.
[rebounding only]
He was even a very good scorer in college and completely subverted his scoring role on his teams for the good of the team.
[Or the only way he could get pt as on all levels would have been mediocure player. He needed a hook (not basketball shot) to make it]
3. If Lamar plays sixth man, he will play against a back up here or there dependent upon minutes he plays. Other coaches will adjust their match-ups based on minutes and match-ups. You make it sound as if a sixth man gets put in with an entire 2nd unit (which was unusual in the league--mainly done by the Lakers). It just doesn't work that way.
[ Ok you can take uit that way but bb is like chess and you look beyond your current move. I guess I thought that would be self evident. Yes coaches will make adjustments on who they play. LO has been playing well against starters no matter how you slice it. If he plays against 2nd unit players he has advantage. Few teams have the depth of the Lakers and other teams send in starters or play starters longer they will tire out faster. we have the depth to match up do they?]
4. Lamar can work on what he has? What does he have besides easy put-backs that he gets when opposing teams are overwhelmed due to other players that he misses when he doesn't feel like? Lamar doesn't have a decent mid-range jumper and doesn't have a decent 3. He can drive and do layups and dunks, but sometimes isn't focused enough to make the easy ones of those. The only thing he has is a good first few steps to the rim to finish a lay-up (that he too frequently misses) and easy put-backs when the other team is asleep at the rim or out of position.
[ Don't assume because a player does not have a good skill set it cannot be developed. Look at D Fish who had a mediocure 3 point shot at best. When he injured his foot he practiced outside shots ands really improved at his shot. LO can do the same. His game is not just put backs because he can rebound and go coast to coast to score. Could Rodman do that?. He can make 3 point shots but needs to improve there. Before he goes to strong 3 point shot he really can and is capable of making midrange jumpshots. As I stated before if he does that he can spread the floor. If he sits out at 3 point land, if defender plays off him to clog the middle a few dribbles in and midrange jump shot is released before defender can repond. If defender plays him tighter he can drive and shoot or dish off pass. So yes floor is spread. He has all motivation to do so playing for next contract and wanting to stay with contending team.]
5. Lamar doesn't have to get a 3 point shot, but he basically needs one. Gasol and Bynum are going to be taking up positions in the post and our offense is set up to spread the floor and it's best done by 3s. Why do you think Radmanovich got so much playing time this season? Why do you think we hired Vlad in the first place? Our SF basically needs to be able to make 3s.
[If LO develops better 3 and a good mid range game Vlade is expendable. Again 3 point shot is not mandatory at 3 but good to have. Think outside of the box.]
All you folks acting like Lamar is being unfairly thrown under the bus for just a few games, or hasn't been given a chance, or is this infinite pool of talent that we're wasting don't need to defend him. His play can speak for itself and show all detractors the error of their ways, right?
[ Easy to blame just looking at problems but how would you fare if you lost your child to Sids and grandma who raised you? Could you do as well with shoulder injury. Judge him on all criteria not just the bad.]
Oh, yeah.
[yup]
Posted by: Benjamin | July 05, 2008 at 09:39 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 06, 2008 at 04:17 PM
Can we all please stop with the arguing about Drew.
LakerTom believes what he believes without proof or reason, so let's all just let him do it. It's gerring pretty annoying reading his same post over and over to different people. It lacks good reason, which is why people who follow sports teams with fervor are called fanatics. If Tom ran the Lakers . . . I won't even get started.
Can we just move on?
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 05, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Pig,
Its ok if you don't want to discuss AB anymore. Just scroll past posts , no problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------
PS Remind me of why Drew is considered sooooo great. He averaged 13 pts per game. That is okay for a center. It is not dominant. What is his game high score? 18??? Am I forgetting a 30 pt game? What is the most Drew ever averaged over a month?? 15?
LO's PPG average couldn't have been too far behind Bynum's. LO averaged more rebounds per game. Centers should not be out rebounded by forwards if they wish to be called super stars.
I love both of them. But when he denigrate LO, give Pau a pass and treat Bynum like another Shaq, it puzzles me.
GOOOoooOOO LAAAAAaaAAAKKKEERRRSSS!!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | July 06, 2008 at 09:34 AM
Because he did this on limited pt. PJ refused to play him and had him play behind Kwame Brown. so in limited time he posted those numbers. If he had played all year or had more pt in past think of what he could really do and those numbers would have been greatly higher.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Justa,
Howard is clearly a better center than Bynum at this point. You have to look at the body of work, not just a handful of games. Bynum has a lot of potential, and could end up better than Howard. But that line of thinking seems to assume that Howard is not going to improve. Howard has a huge amount of potential, too. This was only his fourth season, and he has made significant improvements each year. I don't think that he is close to his peak yet.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 06, 2008 at 03:51 PM
Ex
No doubt that DH will improve also. As will Ogden too. but it is just an opinion how how good any of these guys will become eventually. I have the belief AB will be ranked up there with the greats barring injury over long carreer as will Howard. We have AB now not Howard and I in my own opinion think AB will be better but that is just an opinion as Howard will with out a doubt be ranked among the greats when his long injury free carreer is over.
--------------------------------------------------
bynum is huge offensively because he gets such high percentage shots, dunks
he was second behind howard in dunks while he was playing
high percentage points in the paint require interior defensive help and provides space to other players to operate
and
bynum got a lot of points off missed shots so instead of the other team throwing an outlet pass for a fast break opportunity we get an easy score, bynum was a huge factor that we were blowing teams out night after night
Posted by: HAHA | July 06, 2008 at 03:08 PM
I agree with you.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 06, 2008 at 04:30 PM
posey would go well with kobe. two championships. that said, sasha has considerable upside - could turn into another peja someday.
Posted by: jo | July 06, 2008 at 05:25 PM
lamar you have been helpful but really can you keep up with lebron, artest, maggette, and carmelo. those small forwards are better at that position so trade lamar walton and v. rodmonovic for a PF and a descent SF and the lakerssss will be fast and biggggggggg
Posted by: tommyy | July 06, 2008 at 07:27 PM
Lamar with bynum and gasol and turiaf and dj mgebenga who needs u...... You are 6-10 and are going to play small forwardddd!!!! but i say we trade you for corey maggette and save 4 million in cap space if we sign corey...... so ha u must go
Lakerssssss 4 evaaa
Posted by: bennnnny12090992 | July 06, 2008 at 07:32 PM
has everyone forgot about josh smith (the bloking machine) and andre igudala(athletic) aparently not) realease odom and recieve 14 million in cap room then aquire josh smith for 7million and either corey maggette or andre igudala for 7million and then the lakerss would kick asssss
we dont need a old guy like poseyyyy
Posted by: president meee | July 06, 2008 at 07:38 PM
president meee...
You can't just "release" Odom. He's under contract. If we released him, we'd be without his services, sure, but we'd also be paying him 14.5 million dollars for doing nothing. If the system worked like that, teams would be releasing players right and left and signing new guys all the time. Heck, let's just release Vlade and Luke too and sign a big star.
You sign a guy to a contract, you're stuck with that contract until it's about ready to expire. That's just how it works.
Posted by: puddle | July 07, 2008 at 09:51 AM
LAAAAAAMMAAAR YOU'VE BE GREATT
BUT NOW THE LAKRS DONT NEED YOU!!!!!
IF YOU ARE A LKAER FAN TRUST ME
REALEASE ODOM AND GET
COREY MAGGETTER OR ANDRE IGUDLA
AND JOSH SMITH
Posted by: ridddy | July 07, 2008 at 12:04 PM
dont trade lamar.. he's one of the best for me. his attitude suites him playing with kobe hahaha lamar's crazy and funny
Posted by: cjboi204 | July 07, 2008 at 03:23 PM
This was a very solid assessment. Thanks AK.
Posted by: Brandon Hoffman | July 07, 2008 at 07:41 PM
with the projected starting lineup including lamar!
you are looking at the favorites to win it all!.
3 7 footers... the mvp... and some role players... ouch thats a scary thought for all opposing teams!
Posted by: danny marino | July 15, 2008 at 01:32 PM