Report Card - Lamar Odom
Business as usual: An off-season that features speculation over Lamar Odom's future with the Lakers, a ritual that gains even more intrigue this summer with his contract entering its final year. Business as anything but usual: Seeing Lamar Odom finally become the player everyone wished he could be, which ironically stemmed from finally being the player he wished he could be.
Until this season, Odom's time in purple and gold was spent operating outside his comfort zone, which is filling out the less glamorous sections of a stat line and not making points a primary concern. Middle ground was achieved in fleeting bits, which led to the consistent "inconsistent" tag. It's not that Lamar can't or won't score. He just doesn't have a scorer's mentality and happens to be the rare player actually honest when claiming not to judge a performance by points. When he gets the ball, his first instinct isn't to figure out how to make it stroke nylon. Never has been and never will be.
Can this be maddening? At times, sure. I too get frustrated by those "7 FGA" games (unless they're accompanied by as many or more free throws). But at the same time, players willing to let others "get theirs" ain't necessarily a bad thing. There's more to playing "aggressively" than points tallied. The trick finding a balance and for so long, LO was being used in a way that left him and the Lakers unbalanced. A square peg (an extremely versatile third/fourth option) forced into a round hole (20 ppg/second option expectations), and instead of finding a round peg, the Lakers seemed determined to make Lamar who he isn't. But then through one big roster change and the rapid development by one particular player, the need for Lamar to rack points in a specific way vanished. Then a funny thing happened.
Points - along with an more efficient and consistent game - finally began to flow.
People always describe Lamar's season as "taking off" upon Pau Gasol's arrival. And that's certainly the truth. But it's also an incomplete truth. We'd already seen LO flourish upon Andrew Bynum's sudden blossoming into a dependable low post presence. That was right around when Kobe Bryant declared his team a championship contender with Drew in the lineup... and of course, Lamar kicking arse as Alfred to their Batman and Robin. If you check out Lamar's game logs against Bynum's and Gasol's or on a month to month basis, the trends are pretty marked. LO's November (before Drew was a full-time starter) and January (much of which was spent pre-Gasol, post-Bynum) comprise the least productive 30 day sets. But everything else was pretty terrific. Career highs for rebounds (10.6, NBA-7th), FG % (52.5, with a scorching 59% after the All-Star break), career lows for turnovers (2.0) and treys launched (1.5, indicative of more time spent attacking the rack) and many other clips that simply represented his best work as a Laker.
On the other side of the ball, LO is often the team's most underrated defender and definitely among the more willing. Beyond that, his influence as an emotional leader shouldn't go overlooked. Many a Laker has pinpointed time in Hawaii eating killer team breakfasts, lunches and dinners as the kick off for the celebrated bond this season. Guess who decided to hire a private chef specifically because he thought a Helter Skelter summer needed a little smoothing? Finding better people in the NBA than Lamar is a tough quest and I do think that character is an asset. Was his season always perfect? No. Do the occasional brain cramps still surface? Indeed. Did he crap out at times during the playoffs? Yeah, especially against the Celtics, a series that featured one terrific Game 5, a great first half in Game 4 and scattered everything else. But at the same time, no Laker (Kobe included) played more than one game unquestionably good from top to bottom. All in all, 2008 treated Odom well and in turn, he paid it forward to the Lakers.
Which brings us full circle to where we are now: Wondering what becomes of LO. Roughly 90 seconds passed after Game 6 before many a reader began shouting from the mountain top, "Lamar needs to be moved ASAFP!" That a deal hasn't already been made whirls these folks in a tizzy. My advice for this contingent: Take a Xanax. Draw a bubble bath. Chill. There is absolutely no reason to panic, no reason not to see how Lamar plays with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol (or even off the bench as a sixth man) before deciding that he absolutely "can't" fit. If that's indeed the case, his contract won't be any less expiring in February than next week.
And if he can fit (which I personally think will be the case), you're looking at a chance to resign the league's best fourth option with Bird Rights at a discount (which he'll have to take no matter where he goes). Either way, learn what you have before speculating what you don't. This season was successful on many levels because of patience (with young players the front office believed in, with not acquiring the first "name" possible to appease Kobe, with getting the most out of Kwame's expiring deal), yet everyone gets all goony bird because the shorthanded Lakers lost in the Finals. If we learned (or should have learned) anything from the Caron Butler swap, it's that sending out a player before getting a full look at him with teammates over fears of "losing him for nothing," his "role," or money is a mistake. Thankfully, I'm confident the Lakers will maintain this mindset when it comes to LO. After the 2008 he enjoyed, they'd be silly not to.
Final Grade: A-
AK
passionate Lakers fan,
So I'm guessing at some point in June 2009 next year, we'll see your last post.
Posted by: laker hopeful | July 04, 2008 at 07:39 PM
AGENT ZERO GIVES BACK $16M
Gilbert Arenas agreed today to $111M contract with the Washington Bullets, giving back $16M of the max offer that the Bullets had made in order to help the team put together a better supporting cast. Bravo to Gilbert for continuing a trend that hopefully will spread.
I predicted last year that Kobe would opt out of his contract after the end of next year to sign a similar long term deal with the Lakers that would be less than the max – maybe around $20M per year for 7 years – in order to help the Lakers keep the team together.
Arenas’ gesture will surely not go unnoticed by Kobe, for whom such a move would be a public relations blessing. It also bodes well for the Lakers being able to make a deal to give Drew a contract extension this summer for less than the max and to keep Lamar in purple and gold for less than what we are paying him now. Franchises are willing to pay luxury taxes and players are willing to forego max contracts in return for a better team and chance to win a championship. The NBA where miracles do happen. Good news.
Now, we just need to re-sign Sasha and Ronny and add Posey for improved defense. I think everybody is waiting for Elton Brand to make his decision. He is the top domino right now. If he stays with the Clippers for less – Clips had to love the Arenas news – then Golden State is going to go after Maggette with more than the full MLE, which will keep him out of Boston’s or San Antonio’s hands, which is great for the Lakers.
So Lakers fans need to root for Brand to stay with the Clippers, who would still be less of a threat to the Lakers than the Celtics or Spurs with Maggette. The only problem then is the Boston might concede and give Posey the full MLE and cut strings with House and Allen, who are in limbo right now and counting on part of Boston’s MLE. Hopefully, the Celtics will blink and the Lakers will get Posey.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 07:47 PM
testing
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | July 04, 2008 at 08:25 PM
i like lamar as a person and a teammate. if this was a place like memphis or miami last yr, his place in the lineup would be secured. however, THIS IS THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS. now think of this, would jerry buss, jackson, and kobe want someone makin $14mill on the bench? i think the lakers cant win with lamar. everyone says bynum is the answer, he is important, not the whole answer. when elton resigns with the clipps, he'll be traded to the lakers for walton and lamar. if anyone says this would be a bad move, 2 words 4 u, elgin baylor. he is the vp of player operations with the clips. it seems like the celtics have a good chance to get to the finals, elgin is a laker 4 life and would do anything to hurt the celtics especially help the lakers.
as for lamar: b+ for the season
Posted by: Thomas | July 04, 2008 at 08:33 PM
Trade LO & Luke for Artest, Kenny Thomas & Shareef.
We won't be able to get rid of Luke unless we take
those 2 from the Kings.
At least, they will be valuable expiring contracts
in 2009~2010
Posted by: coolhair | July 04, 2008 at 09:39 PM
How many third options are there in the NBA with LO's skills? For that matter, how many fourth options? LO detractors act like players with his skills drop out of the sky like rainbow jumpers.
Take the Spurs. Beyond their top three, who is their fourth option? Bruce Bowen? A guy who can only hit jumpers from two spots on the court?
Who was the Celtics fourth option? Rando? He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.
Who do the Mavericks turn to after Dirk, Howard and Terry? Erick Freaking Dampier?
LA should be thankful to have such a dilemma.
Posted by: Dalton | July 04, 2008 at 09:48 PM
A-minus for LO? Chasing skirts and poppin' bottles at the club during THE FINALS???
I just threw up BBQ sauce in my mouth!
A hearty and whole-hearted C for the third elemment in The Triangle of Mediocrity. Like I said in every single one of my prayers for LO: he is truly a great player - but he's standing in his own way. LO is afraid. 100% afraid. You can see it in his body language on the court. You can see it in his eyes. We are standing on the precipice of the next Laker Dynasty - but he is holding us back. I'm sorry, but we simply cannot afford to mortgage our future waitng for THE DAY where he finally decides once and for all to let his greatness shine through.
LO MUST GO!
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | July 04, 2008 at 09:52 PM
AK, you are certainly giving LO the benefit of the doubt. But in reality, he has had several chances to show what he is about and failed. I agree this year was probably his most productive, but that finals performance was just dreadful. Ship his ___ out!!
Posted by: Fernando | July 04, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Whatever side of the great Lamar debate you're on, and it was raging long before this blog, it's safe to say that he's the most polarizing figure amongst Laker fans (at least the ones who post here).
For those of you who haven't read Dan Wetzel & Don Yaeger's excellent book "Sole Influence", I'd sincerely recommend it. It's all about NCAA, the sneaker wars, Sonny Vaccaro, etc., etc... and spends a fair amount of time on young Lamar Odom, the expectations and influences surrounding him, the UNLV scandal, etc. (note: as for high expectations that REALLY bombed, there's lots about Jaron Rush, oldest of the Rush brothers).
Personally, I think L.O's finally found a nice groove here and hope he sticks around.
Posted by: dave m | July 04, 2008 at 10:33 PM
LakerTom,
No, the Lakers don't have to sign Bynum to a $70 million dollar extension. Bynum will be a restricted free agent at the end of next season (08-09) if the Lakers don't re-sign him before opening night. So the Lakers would be able to offer him more money than anyone else and would be able to match any offer sheet he signed if he did wish to leave.
I love Bynum, but there's no way he's earned $70 mill, much less the max at this point. The earliest he should be offered such a deal is towards the end of preseason if he's killing dudes--even then it's a bit of rush since he has yet to put together 82 games of dynamic play in the pivot.
Posted by: Xodus | July 04, 2008 at 10:36 PM
HIGH CHEESE (ph., jarg., euph.)
noun: A fastball, thrown high through the strike-zone.
Posted by: HIGH CHEESE | July 04, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Happy fourth, Lakers faithful!
I got one for you...kick me if you've already heard this one.
A Celtics fan (Let's Go?) walks into a bar, weaving on drunken legs after another afternoon of rioting in the streets.
"Pour me a shot, G-dammit!" he yells at the bartender.
Looking up, he sees a poster advertising a contest.
YOU CAN WIN $10,000! the poster reads.
"Hey, bar-keep? Howz it that I can win that ten grand?" he asks.
"YOU, buddy, cannot possibly win that money. Thanks for askin' though."
"Seriously! Whatta-I-gotta-do?"
"Okay...seriously...to win the ten-gees, you have to complete three impossible tasks in ten minutes. You knock down all three, and I write you check on the spot."
"Ahhhm lisssening," Let's Go slurs, with cheap whiskey dribbling from his chin.
"First, you have to knock my bouncer off his stool." The bartender points to a massive no-neck dozing by the front door. "Grady goes about six-two, three-twenty on an empty stomach. He picked up his mean disposition during his second tour in Afghanistan. Anyway, it's like football - if anything other than a hand or a foot touches the floor, then you win..."
"Yeah, yeah, okay. What's the second imposssssible thask?"
"Okay, tough guy, the second round involves going out back to my storage shed. My Rottie is sleeping out there. Her name is Lucy, she weighs about one-sixty, and she has an impacted canine tooth that looks like it hurts like hell. If you want to win round two, you have to pull that infected tooth with your bare hands."
Let's Go throws down another shot of Cutty Sark, and is now so drunk that his eyes are crossed: "What's the third round? For aaaalllll da MAH-bles?"
"The third task is by far the most difficult."
"Yeah? What is it?"
"You have to run over to Saint Anthony's on the corner, and convince one of the Sisters to have consentual sex with you."
"An' if I do awlll dat, I winned da ten grannnd?"
"That's the game. So? You in?"
"Paw meh a drehnk! An' staaaaht da clahhhk!"
Let's Go downs another shot...then lifts the enormous pickle jar off the edge of the bar. He approaches the dozing bouncer as stealthily as his wobbly legs allow. The bigger man never hears him approach. Let's Go uncaps the pickle jar, and douses its contents all over the unsuspecting bouncer.
"What the..." the heavy set man stumbled to his feet...and slipped on the pickle juice. The fall was spectacular.
"Hah! One down!" Let's Go clapped his hands with glee. He downed yet another shot of El Cheapo, and then headed for the bar's back door. "Now Ahhhlll go take care of that doggie!"
A moment later, and everyone in the bar heard a tremendous battle taking place just outside the back door. Snarling-cursing-snapping jaws-shrieks of pain. The fight went on for a full two minutes. Finally, just when the bartender thought he needed to call an ambulance, he heard the large dog whimpering in defeat.
Let's Go bursts into the bar; his shirt is torn and bloody, his hands and arms are mangled beyond all recognition.
"Yeah, BOY! Ah did it! Two down, one to go! Now...where's that Nun with the infected tooth?"
LOL everyone
HIGH CHEESE
Posted by: HIGH CHEESE | July 04, 2008 at 11:44 PM
I agree with the grade. Kobe, Lamar, and Pau were our "Big Three" and seeing Lamar thrive with Pau and Andrew's presence was so thrilling to watch. I love that he's a team player and I love that he's one of the nicest guy there is. I hate that people enjoying throwing him under the bus and demand that he get traded after every little mistake he makes.
I can't wait to see how Lamar takes all the criticism, channel into aggression and dominate next season with Kobe, Andrew and Pau by his side - silencing all his critics.
Posted by: Peanut Butter Spread | July 05, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Happy 4th to all Laker fans.
Here's what Lakers need to do to get the ring for next season. Lakers need to trade Luke walton, Vlad & Possibly Ronny to Utah for AK47, then turn around and trade Lamar for Artest and then fill some nice complimentry players like Posey, Matt Barnes,
PG - D-Fish
SG - Kobe
SF - AK47 or Artest
PF - Gasol
C - Bynum
Bench: Posey, Sasha, Farmar, Barnes, Ariza, Mihm
Posted by: george | July 05, 2008 at 12:50 AM
Wow, some LO detractors only see negative things about him and are foaming at the mouth to get rid of him.
Now remember he is human and thus has emotions. You go back and say he did not improve but I say he has. To come back and even play when your baby dies os SIDS and try to improve and play high level is tough. To lose his grandmother and play is tough and to play with an injured shoulder is tough too. But seems that don't matter since he should be all star right? Try to be a little even handed in criticism of him and look at total picture.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 01:48 AM
Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 03:26 PM
Laker Tom
Who are you talking to? Because I don't remember anyone here taking the stands you mentioned in your comment about not wanting to sign AB. Your building an argument with out any foundation. Very odd, especially coming from you, the most logical and persuasive commenter here.
Ajax
I've never heard that version by Marvin. That was incredibly inspiring. Maybe the best I've ever heard.
Before I forget, everyone have a great 4th of July.
Posted by: Fatty | July 04, 2008 at 04:05 PM
Hey Fatty,
I think the point was about if we don't sign AB we stand the chance of losing him. Which would equate to not wanting him if you pass up the opportunity to lock him up.
It is in the Lakers ball court. They have the information in hand ands have til oct 31 to sign him or not.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 01:59 AM
passionate Lakers fan,
You’re too much but you are definitely passionate and I can respect that. No problem with that so long as you’re respectful and courteous. Oops.
Thanks for the repost. Some bloggers may have missed the original. Now that you have added Pau to your list of players who have to go, my only question is who’s next?
“Anything’s possible” in wild world of the Lakers Blog. No, I didn’t really say that.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 04:41 PM
The Lakers will never win a championship with:
Pau/Lamar/Luke/Vladimir.
Games 4 and 6 took away their manhood.
And you just don't recover from that.
I look forward to Lakers management packaging Pau and Lamar for a true power forward.
I would simply release Luke and Vladimir (we don't need these 2 cancers-along with the other 2 cancers above-on a team with players who play with passion).
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | July 04, 2008 at 05:09 PM
---------------------------------
OK you say trade Pau and LO for PF. Name me who that PF is you would trade for?
Just cut Luke and Vlade? What is gained since we can't replace them as they have contracts we are responsible for. No cap relief, money thrown away and no replacements for roster spots as we have no money to add anyone. Or do you know of two better players willing to play for free?
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 02:07 AM
can't wait for the day after the Lakers win the championship next year. I would love to see what everyone says about Lamar then. They'll probably say something like, "if we had someone else instead of him we would have won by more," or "yea, we won this year, but with Lamar there's no way we repeat."
Posted by: laker hopeful | July 04, 2008 at 05:14 PM
If the Lakers win a championship with Lamar:
I will apologize to all the Lamar lovers.
I will never post on this blog again.
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | July 04, 2008 at 05:26 PM
PROMISE
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 02:12 AM
PLF -
You shouldn't have to ban yourself from the blog - I hope you don't think that people are trying to force you out.
The great thing about this forum is that people have the right to disagree; while I may disagree with you, I'm curious to know your thoughts on L.O.
To Recapitulate: I believe that you bring something to this blog even though I disagree with what you say about L.O.
I hope you decide to stick around. :-)
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | July 04, 2008 at 05:39 PM
Only if he keeps his insults to himself. Otherwise bye bye
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 05, 2008 at 02:14 AM
LOL
YOU GUYS ARE FUKKING IDIOTS
DO ANY OF YOU EVEN PLAY BASKETBALL?
IF ANYONE NEEDS TO BE TRADED, ITS VLADIMIR RADMANOVIC.
that guy played so FUKKING BADLY that i am seriously convinced he is the blame for the laker loss (among other things).
HE WAS GUARDING PAUL PIERCE
he cannot even get a rebound
the dude sucks
all he can do is hit a wide open 3 half the time
trade that scrub and put lamar at small forward.
the lineup will work
lamar is a multi-faceted player and he proved how explosive he can be (game 4)
the lakers needed more synergy (DONT TAKE OUT DEREK FISHER) and phil jackson's substitutions made no sense (CHRIS MIHM?!?!?!)
lamar isnt the problem. hes one of the best players in the nba
Posted by: Anthony | July 05, 2008 at 02:59 AM
Hello everyone,
I guess I’m going to repeat myself by reposting my LO observations I’ve done after finals.
The major problem with Lamar is his inconsistency, and this probably one thing that drive Phil and the rest of coaches mad. They don’t know what to expect from a guy each night, either 18-20 points 10 rebounds ALL-Star kind of performance or 4-6 points guy. I don’t know either this because who he is (pretty much the same as with Vlade), or some other reason.
Now, with Andrew returning, what position he is going to play? Obviously, the only one available is SF, and this where we’ll see majority of the problem. Lamar does not have a reliable midrange jump shoot, and his 3pt shot even worse. Yes, he can slash and drive to the basket, but he is also has very limited arsenal of moves, already very well known around the league. The common result is an offensive foul, and he can pick up those in bunches. My suspicion, he can make rather quick decision about avoiding the charge, or pass it to open shooter before contact occurred. As the consequence he’ll be shooting low percentage jumpers from the perimeter for the rest of the game, playing “safe”. I don’t know, is the system that does suit him, as the forward he indeed required lot touches, which is contrary to the triangle based on crisp passes and cuts. His defense is average at the best, weak to defend PF, often not fast enough to defend SF. Now back to math, with Andrew returning to starting lineup, Lamar will become our 4th scoring option, and with $14 million per year, luxury tax and looming Andrew’s extension I just don’t see this as a viable option for Lakers future. Hard truth is, he’s only tradable asset for Lakers offseason in order to get defensive minded traditional SF. Yes, I know, a lot of people here rather try to trade Luke or Vlade (or both), but we all know, those two just a bad contracts, and you cannot expect 1 Porsche in exchange for 2 Fords. If they decided to pull the trigger, they need to do it earlier in order to have full blown triangle pre-season camp for newly acquired player.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | July 05, 2008 at 07:26 AM
Great article AK, we do need to step back and take a look at the big picture. Wait and see how it works with Drew in the lineup. But the most frustrating part of LO's game is the fact that he consistently misses layups at the cup. I mean how many times does he brake down his man only to miss at point blank range. If we could get points for ball handling skills that would be great, but that isn't the case. I love LO but could someone have him shoot 1000 layups lefty and 10000 right handed. How many of these go in and out. It gets to the point where you are surprised that they actually go in. I'd love to see him win a ring with us. I really want him to be a part of it, because of his heart, and all the personal suffering he has been through.
Posted by: ramon | July 05, 2008 at 07:47 AM
So maybe I'm floggin' a dead horse here, but here's another way of looking at LO's value:
Both the Lakers and Suns made huge deals last year. Both teams traded for 7ft players, considered to be "primary option" type players - both were currently or had recently been alpha-dogs of their respective teams.
Both teams have huge centers, promising and productive (and young) PF's, either of whom can cover the center position as needed. Both teams are led by MVP winning perimeter players - both are competitors, both create opportunities for their teammates, both can "take over" as needed, although neither prefers to operate that way. Both teams are augmented by capable veterans, dead-eye shooters, and speedy guards off the bench.
Why then, are we Lakerites talking O'Brien Trophy, while BUTLER is crying in his chocolate milk over the Suns' closing window?
Because the Suns traded away THEIR Lamar Odom. Foolish Suns...
We kept ours, and we see many rings awaiting, just around the bend.
The Suns traded away one of the leagues' all time best COMPLIMENTARY players when they dealt Marion: stat sheet stuffer - boards, points, steals, blocks, guards bigger players, guards quicker players, doesn't need any plays run for him, cleans up the garbage, unselfish, good team player, good teammate, not a great shooter - but good enough to make you play him...
Sound like someone we all know (and should LOVE)?
See how the pieces fit?
Raja Bell = specialist = Vlade
Grant Hill = wily vet = Fisher
Nash = MOTOR = Kobe
Amare = go to guy, inside edition = Pau
Let's face it: as PREVIOUSLY constructed, the Suns were dangerous. We were certainly improving faster, and would have overtaken them based on youth and athleticism. But now, now that they've dealt away Marion and brought in the Big Giggle, they have dealt themselves right out of any reasonable contention.
Uber-versatile COMPLIMENTARY players are THAT valuable!
So...enough of the "down on Lamar" b.s.
Do you want to win a title (or 3) or not?
Respectfully
HIGH CHEESE
Posted by: HIGH CHEESE | July 05, 2008 at 07:51 AM
Lakers Tom
“Anything’s possible” in wild world of the Lakers Blog
When you typed that, were you also screaming that as loud as you could, "ANYTHINGS POSSIBLE!!!!!" lol
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. It is in everyones best interest if AB is signed, sealed, and delivered before October 31. (including the blog) lol
Fatty
Posted by: Fatty | July 05, 2008 at 07:56 AM
Last post until the end of the 08-09 season.
I feel so sorry for Kobe.
All the, "he's not good as Mike" Kobe haters are laughing at him and our team.
What they fail to realize is this:
Mike played with big men who played defense:
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Bill Cartwright
Luc Longley
Bill Wittington
Mike played with guards who made the big shots:
Ron Harper
B.J. Armstrong
Steve Kerr
And, above all, the above players made a committment to play defense.
Jordan would have never won a championship with:
Pau/Lamar/Luke/Vladimir
Man, I'm depressed.
Kobe's best years will be waisted on a bunch of soft millionaires.
Kobes only hope for a ring:
Andrew would have to play 82 games at a MVP level.
And I do not think he can do that at age 20 (and it is not fair to ask that he produce at such a high level at such a young age).
By the time Andrew begins to dominate the league (and it will happen), Kobe will be in his mid 30s with bad knees.
In closing:
Lakers management:
Please-by some miracle-find me a starting point guard who is quick, who can defend, and who can shoot (D-Fish needs to go to the bench) and find me a real small forward (Trevor is not ready).
If the above regarding Andrew and a point guard and small forward does not happen, get ready to be depressed next spring, Lakers fan.
In closing:
We will not win with:
Pau/Lamar/Luke/Vladimir
The 2008 NBA Finals mentally scarred them for live.
And you just don't recover from that.
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | July 05, 2008 at 08:01 AM
I gotta laugh, Lamar Odom is complete pansy, a no-show. If he were a baseball player he'd have the cleanest uniform on the team. Of course here in Boston we love you loving Odom, because he can be defended by a Celtic's cheerleader if need be. LA is delusional, you won't have the best record next season, good luck with a rookie center coming off of an injury. Go Clippers!
Posted by: Chris Smith | July 05, 2008 at 09:06 AM
VMan,
"A- season. B+ playoffs. C Finals (no pun intended)"
That pretty much says it.
I'm not a Lamar hater. Far from it. I think Lamar is a tremendous benefit to the team and I expect him to have his best year next year.
He's paid too much, but I really don't care about that. Jerry Buss is doing just fine.
I don't understand the antipathy many have towards Lamar. He just needs to play with a bit more anger.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 05, 2008 at 09:36 AM
I would have given LO a B! AK might've gotten a little carried away if Lamar was hitting his jumper 15-20 feet more consistantly I would agree not to mention finishing with right hand more. Did I mention getting rid of Luke Walton!
Posted by: chuck23 | July 05, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Hey, hope everyone had a great 4th.
OK...so I'm the guy that was saying Lamar = Finals MVP and now say Lamar = Laker for Life. Heres why I think those things....
1. He's extremely versatile. I love watching his game. The way he goes coast to coast then finishes with a left hand dunk is awesome. In my opinion Lamar is the most entertaining Laker to watch.
2. Lamar Odom has heart. I don't know how some people don't see this. Sometimes his heart takes him in the wrong direction. His charge problem was due to his heart. All Lamar wanted to do was succeed and he knows his best option is driving hard to the basket, so he tried. The only other Lakers with more heart are Kobe and Farmar.
3. Lamar stepped his game up BIG time in the second half of the year. There were a few games pre Gasol where I wanted Lamar off the Lakers for good. Then he started playing to his "potential" and I started enjoying watching him. Lamar isn't going to be a superstar or even the second option but he is the best "role player". Maybe Lamar wont work out with Pau and Bynum but we should at least try it. There is NO way that we trade Odom before the season. Ultimately Odom will retire a Laker, no questions asked.
4. I like Lamar Odom's business ventures. Better believe I have one of those "Boston Sucks" shirts. Its a great shirt and I like Undefeated too. I also have a pair of Lamar's player edition NIke Huarache 08 shoes. Why can't Lamar have a social life but its ok for Baron Davis to come to LA because he wants to be closer to Hollywood. No one cared about Kobe's two hyperdunk movies during the playoffs. He should have been practicing 24/7.
I just think Lamar gets a undeserving bad rap. For those of you like Jon K that like Odom, keep supporting. For those of you that would give your pinkie to have Lamar traded, watch a Lamar highlight on you tube and enjoy his one of kind game. Also, give him a chance and realize that he flourished when Gasol came. He isn't the only Laker to have an inconsistent Finals. Did Kobe show up for a full game? All I'm saying is give him a chance, he deserves it.
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | July 05, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Grizzlies are looking young and athletic and have a young nice perimeter core.. Their perimeter players are looking much more promising than the Lakers..
Grizzlies
Kyle Lowry (balck) PG
Mike Conley (dark black) PG
Javaris Crittenton (black) G
OJ Mayo (dark Black) G
Rudy Gay (black) SF
Darrell Arthur (dark black) F
Lakers
Fisher (half white)
Karl (white)
Vujacic (white)
Walton (white)
Radmanovic (white)
Except for Kobe, Ariza and Farmar, Lakers perimeter are unathletic and slow footed. No wonder our defense in the perimeter is suffering.
One more lottery draft pick, lots of cap space for FA signing for a big man and Grizzlies are looking to be a powerhouse just like the way Portland and Seattle have rebuilt.
Also a head coach that will let these athletes run will be helpful.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 05, 2008 at 11:06 AM
I've been a big LO supporter for the last 3 years. Hard to replace a 6-10 guy who can dribble, pass, rebound and defend 3,4 and sometimes 5's. His versatility is his biggest asset and we've all waited to see if he can raise his game and perhaps become a more prolific scorer to go with his other gifts. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion we're seeing LO at his best and though it's very good and was vital in getting us to the finals, it's not going to rise to the level we need to win the championships we all crave. His mental lapses, lack of purpose in key situations and competitive shrinkage in the biggest games, is in my opinion, LO just being LO. So, what to do? Yes, we will be very good staying pat, letting LO and Drew and Gasol run around together. However, what if we could get a physical, talented 3, who can defend as well as score inside and out? There's one up in Sacramento who is definitely ready to be moved, Ron Artest anyone? Yes, Ron Artest to me would be a great fit for this team. Yes he's a whacked out mental case, but so was Rodman and look what he did for the Bulls. Phil is good with these kind of idiot/savant superstars and Kobe would love having the dude. Can you imagine Kobe and Artest locking down the other team's 2 and 3's? Artest would blossom on the Lakers. We always thought LO could be Kobe's Pippen, but Artest is the guy that could really fit that role. A tough, aggressive defensive stopper who can score inside and out. Talk about versatility. he actually gives us more versatility than LO. With Pau and Drew holding down the 4-5 we have everybody playing their natural positions. Anybody out there think we might have competed a little better in the finals if we had a jacked up Artest to throw at Pierce? I say roll the dice now. Not sure if Sacramento would want to do a trade with us, but if so, I make that move. Artest and some scraps for LO. Need to make salaries match, but i think this is doable. Hard move to make, but I think Artest is a better fit for us right now.
Posted by: mikefloss | July 05, 2008 at 11:10 AM
the Kwaminus is indeed loved:
http://tinyurl.com/6h93s3
But while they’re at it, I’d also take a shot at bringing in former No. 1-overall pick Kwame Brown to help Duncan in the post.
At just under 7 feet tall and 270 pounds, Brown is a born rebounder, something the Spurs need desperately.
Despite washing out first with the Washington Wizards, then the Lakers and most recently with the Memphis Grizzlies, the 26-year-old Brown is still young and has probably the biggest upside of almost any of the free-agent big men.
Growing up in southern Georgia, I witnessed first-hand the dominance the former Glynn Academy standout can display when his confidence is running high.
Brown still has all the talent and ability that intrigued the Wizards to make him the first ever high school player to be taken No. 1 overall in 2001.
And given his recent failures with other teams that expected him to be their own version of Duncan in the post, Brown should be available for next to nothing.
Put him in a position where he’s a backup center with limited to no expectations and I believe Brown will flourish.
And in an understudy-type capacity to Duncan, who would be a great influence and mentor to the still young veteran, the Spurs will look like geniuses if Brown provides even half of what he’s capable of.
Posted by: Kwaminus Brownicas, Dutchess of the Stone Hands, Sister of the Sublime Calves | July 05, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Faith
I agree about the LO decision. There's a few questions about next season's long tall lineup but answers can wait.
LO off the bench, LO at guard, are interesting ideas. Norm Nixon questioned the spacing and speed of an AB, PG, LO front court.
LO could get exposed on the perimeter, where, sooner or later, against the best teams, he'll have to prove his outside shot in the clutch.
Great that Mitch and Laker fans have the luxury of time to figure it all out.
Posted by: Vman | July 05, 2008 at 11:16 AM
The Laker coaches and the LA writers and the LA fans continue to be duped by Lamar Odom...sure, he put up some good numbers and double-doubles were plentiful BUT nobody focuses on all the things he does wrong night in and night out on the court...his untimely charges on offense and his stupid fouls and way off 3-pointers are just the beginning...he stepped up this year but vanishes quickly in critical moments...I say trade him...he'll never be a Scotty Pippen.
Posted by: Steve LaRochelle | July 05, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Room for improvement.
Lakers as currently constructed are a championship team due to Bynum, Gasol, Turiaf, Odom, Kobe, Ariza and Farmar.
The rest can be traded or not signed.
I would look for more black perimeter players that can shoot and are athletic enough to play defense.
James Posey
James Jones
Ron Artest
Mihm, Vlad, Walton, Vujacic, Karl should all must go. Lakers are too white and soft that's why we got bullied in the NBA Finals. Unless these white players are named Bird, Mchale, Tom Chambers, Mark Price or Steve Nash but they are not.
If we are to keep a white player, it should only be VUJACIC.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 05, 2008 at 11:37 AM
For all Lamar bashers....the Lakers will be pretty boring and alot less versatile with the man who can and will do it all. This year was perferct, except for a few games at the end. If the Lakers move Lamar for a banger then they will lose 15 boards a game from the guy who can grab em and go...Give this team time to develop. Just one "tinker" move...nothing major, I can't believe some idiots are bashing Gasol. Because we did not win it, some people consider the season a failure. It's just the some of the first steps toward dominance. Don't worry about what how the team will matchup against other teams, they will be lost trying to figure out how to match up against us, and we can change because our players are versatile. So Kobe and Lamar are not scottie and mj, let them be Kobe and Lamar and when they win 3+ championships together, under PJ, then another set under the next coach, they will be held in high regard, Kobe may even overtake MJ in the eyes of some. After all, winning championships in such different eras of the same team. Face it, Stern does not prop Kobe, so Kobe has more opponents. Where's "let's go c's"???? I guess he had to go to to work at Subway today, or I missed his daily offerings....not too much mayo, ."......aaaahhhhhhhheeeehhhhhhhho ooooohhhhhhhhhkkkkkeeejjjjj" or maybe he's hanging out in "Malabo" with KG...
Posted by: humanomaly | July 05, 2008 at 11:55 AM
THE TAX PAYERS
by Preetom Bhattacharya for HoopsWorld.com
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9366
Good synopsis of the teams that are currently over the luxury tax threshold:
Celtics
Cavaliers
Mavericks
Nuggets
Rockets
Pacers
Lakers
Knicks
Suns
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 11:58 AM
I don't think we should trade Lamar Odom unless we can get a major talent. I'd never trade him for 2 role players and absolutely not take on any bad long term contract, like Kenny Thomas, to "make the trade work". The Lakers already have many role players like Farmar, Fisher, Walton, Vlade, and have 2 huge long term lousy fat contracts in Luke and Vlade. Why add another 2 or more role players and add a 3rd or 4th bad contracts. Those moves would cripple the Lakers for years to come. Just because LO will never be Scotty Pippin, it doesn't mean they should let him go for nothing or worse, put yourself in a worse situation.
Posted by: sclakerfan | July 05, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Did anyone else notice that the one Laker still playing with emotion, still arguing about the over-aggressive physicality of Kevin Garnett long after the outcome was obvious, still fighting for a little bit of pride to the end, was Lamar Odom? Does anyone remember how hard he played (stats not being everything) in last season's playoffs with a bad shoulder?
Posted by: Lucky#13 | July 05, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Kwaminus,
"Brown is a born rebounder"
THere are "born" rebounders, and there are players who made themselves into rebounders through hard work. But in both those cases, the player being discussed is actually a rebounder.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 05, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Staples 24,
Dude, your post was oddly racist.
I mean, so a team of "blacker" players is obviously going to be better?
I think your thinking is pretty screwed up.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 05, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Staples 24,
Dude, you have major problems as a human being.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 05, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Urgh.
Does anyone remember that we made it to the NBA Finals this year WITHOUT our starting center and that, if we had not blown a couple of key games, we would have won the Finals?
Does anyone remember that?
All you morons who are screaming that we need to throw 50% of this team under the bus and are just crazy.
Seriously. How long have you guys been basketball fans?
We made it to the Finals this year. Lifelong basketball sportswriters like Roland Lazenby (the guy who wrote the official history of the Chicago Bulls and Lakers Dynasties) is talking about the potential of a FOUR-PEAT with this lineup.
And you guys want to trade half the players on this team.
And idiots like Staples 24 is basing his criteria for trading players based on their skin color.
[Stunned amazement]
A new level of parasite has entered Laker Nation...
Not Trolls.
Not Haters.
Fools.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 05, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Staples 24,
Your posts get more ridiculous by the day. First of all, since when is Fish half-white? And judging players by the color of their skin is the most ridiculous, racist thing I've ever seen on this blog.
Kwame Brown, is as you put it, dark black and he's one of the worst players in the league. Your post is moronic and offensive to black and white people everywhere.
Posted by: Xodus | July 05, 2008 at 12:27 PM
High cheese,
"noun: A fastball, thrown high through the strike-zone."
"High cheese" does not go through the strike zone.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 05, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Xodus,
“No, the Lakers don't have to sign Bynum to a $70 million dollar extension. Bynum will be a restricted free agent at the end of next season (08-09) if the Lakers don't re-sign him before opening night. So the Lakers would be able to offer him more money than anyone else and would be able to match any offer sheet he signed if he did wish to leave.”
“I love Bynum, but there's no way he's earned $70 mill, much less the max at this point. The earliest he should be offered such a deal is towards the end of preseason if he's killing dudes--even then it's a bit of rush since he has yet to put together 82 games of dynamic play in the pivot.”
Karl, the CBA has special rules for giving extensions to first round draft picks that are playing under a rookie scale contract like Andrew. These players can sign an extension only during the summer between their third and fourth years of their contract. In Drew’s case, he will be allowed to sign an extension beginning July 9, 2008, the end of the free agent moratorium, through October 31, 2008, the start of next season. This period is the only time that the Lakers will have an opportunity to sign Drew to an extension.
If Drew does not sign an extension by October 31, 2008, he just plays out his contract, with the Lakers making him a qualifying offer of 125% of his last salary by June 3, 2009, making him a restricted free agent. Once the Lakers have tendered their qualifying offer, Drew then has three options:
(1) He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
(2) He can sign an offer sheet with another team, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
(3) He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
If the Lakers do not sign Drew to an extension, then he will have an open path to become an unrestricted free agent in 2 years. Best case scenario then is that the Lakers will have to pay more to keep Drew because he will all of a sudden have all of the leverage. Worst case scenario is that Drew just accepts the qualifying offer and plays out the year and becomes a free agent, which would be a disastrous result for the Lakers.
I guarantee you that you will see Drew sign an extension before October 31, 2008 since there is no way in the world that the team is going to allow a franchise player like Drew even sniff free agency much less have an unhindered path to free agency with the Lakers helpless to prevent it. That would be a disaster that would haunt the franchise.
With Drew finally getting complete clearance from the doctors to start full-on training and with Arenas setting an example by accepting less than the max salary to help his team have a better roster, I think there is a good chance that we will not have to pay Drew max money on this contract. Even better, his agent is seeking a 5-year deal rather than the 3-year + option deal that Arenas, LeBron, Wade, and Bosh have elected so that they can opt out and negotiate a new bigger contract in 3 years. That gives the Lakers a chance to lock up Drew for next 5 years. Mitch is not going to miss the chance.
Only a fool would give a franchise player like Drew an open path to become a free agent. As for the bloggers who don’t think we should give Drew an extension this summer, what you think won’t matter because Mitch is going to extend Drew and you can count on it.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 05, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I'm kinda on the fence about Lamar. For a 3rd option on a team
(who will be a 4th option when Bynum returns), I can't really
argue with AK's A- assessment - I probably would have gone
B+, but the difference isnt' that big.
And to those of you complaining that Lamar didn't do anything
in the finals, he made 51% of his shots and averaged 9 rebounds.
At times he looked out of it and at times he played very well
(he outscored Garnett in 2 of the 6 games). Lamar is inconsistent,
but even at his worst he's a pretty good NBA starter.
I think Corey Maggette might have done the Lakers a great service
by opting out this year. He will act as a bellweather for good
players who aren't quite all-stars hoping to get a huge payday.
Basically, it's going to come down to a choice for Maggette:
He can take a MLE contract and go to a team that's a contender,
or he can get more than the MLE (and probably less than
10 million a season) to go to a lousy team.
That will set a precedent for re-signing Lamar. If Maggette
goes to Philadelphia (for example) for a contract starting
at 7 million per year because that's the most he is offered,
then it's a sign to Lamar that he'd be in the same ballpark
as a free agent next summer. If the Lakers could offer him
comparable to what Maggette gets offered to stay, then he
could get the benefit of both more than the MLE and playing
with a championship contender and I think he'd be content
with that.
That is, unless Lamar has a breakout season (how many
times have we wished for that) and finally makes it up to
All-Star level next season, in which case his payday will
be bigger, whether it's worth the Lakers or not.
Summing up, I'd love for the Lakers to keep Lamar, but not
at the level he's being paid and more. If he'd sign for something
starting in the neighboorhood of 7 to 8 million a year, then
he'd be appropriately paid for what he contributes. If he
wants to get a contract starting at 15 and going up, then
trade his expiring inconsistent carcass before the trade
deadline.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 05, 2008 at 12:49 PM
LakerTom,
I'm not saying whether or not Mitch WILL give Drew an extension. I'm saying he has yet to earn it. Giving someone a kid a big money extension because of what you believe (I think Drew is going to be very good, so I believe as well). Drew, in my mind, hasn't earned anything beyond 5 years and 50-55 million. Drew was an absolute beast from Dec. 1 to his injury, but that's only a month and a half of stellar play. And in my book, it's not a smart business decision to throw 70 mill to the max at a guy who is coming off an injury and hasn't proven--I believe he will prove it by the way--that he can sustain that level of play throughout a season and into the playoffs.
Posted by: Xodus | July 05, 2008 at 01:09 PM
Jon K,
Staples 24 has had a knack for making foolish posts throughout the season. He was trying to trade LO for most of the season, and at one (very brief) point was saying that Kobe should be traded.
It's annoying when a fellow Laker fan is essentially a troll. I automatically scroll past Let's Go C's!, but I'm always inclined to give people like Mike T. and Staples 24 the benefit of the doubt as Lakers fan. With often poor results, of course.
Posted by: Xodus | July 05, 2008 at 01:13 PM
LakerTom,
"(2) He can sign an offer sheet with another team, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match
(3) He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.."
The point is that the Lakers will still be able to sign him after next season. He is not going to play for one year at 4M and then go unrestricted.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 05, 2008 at 01:40 PM