Report Card - Lamar Odom

Oh boy. This thread should be a crazy filled exchange, but will the 4th of July celebration get in our blogs banter?

Either way, Happy 4th guys!

Best,

Adios Lamar. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

Charles,

Call me crazy, but I think folks will be willing to pick up an argument retroactively after a holiday weekend. haha

AK

That's pretty good AK. Spot on. I've always thought that Lamar was a great third option, and he'd rock if he could play that way.

I only wonder whether Bynum and Gasol can share space up front. I think, even more than the point, that's the biggest question we have going into the season.

I think A- is too high considering his performance in the finals.It is reasonable to expect someone with his talent and experience to perform better at that point in the season. B or B+ would be more appropriate.

4 years ago I posted,

Dear LO,

Please MAKE 1000, 20 foot jumpers a day this summer. See you at the all star game.

Same message applies.

Much to celebrate Laker fans,

Happy 4th.

Bynum cleared to play by doctors.

http://tinyurl.com/6b86ap

http://tinyurl.com/5wte7b

Ex,

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think LO's playoffs were terrible, all in all. Take away the C's (a trickle down effect where nobody played well, frankly) and you're left with a couple of bad games against the Spurs (along with some good ones) and pretty good series against Utah and Denver. I don't think that's enough to knock him down from a very good season.

AK

How do you give a guy who spent the NBA Finals throwing late-night parties and promoting his "Boston Sucks" T-Shirt line an A minus?

Lamar deserves a D for the first half of the season, a B for the 2nd half, and a big fat F for the finals. And then he deserves to be shipped out of town on a freight steamer.

Aloha AK,

Solid job as usual. I am very glad that you pointed out LO's defensive side. He is a good defender. If we had had Drew back and L.O had been able to play Pierce no way he would have hoisted the MVP. Would L.O have shut him down? No, he just would have made him work harder and he wouldnt have been as successful. Thats one of the reasons I am not really screaming for a densive specialist at the 3. My only concern with L.O at the 3 is his inconsistant outside shot, that could be a liability in the triangle.

MH

Abdolute Truth,

"How do you give a guy who spent the NBA Finals throwing late-night parties and promoting his "Boston Sucks" T-Shirt line an A minus?"

Because what you're describing didn't happen. Thus, it's pretty easy.

AK

AK,
THey weren't terrible, they were mediocre. THat's not A- material, and playoff performance needs to be a major part of the grade for a player like Lamar on a team like the Lakers.

AK,

Huh?

You apparently weren't reading the same news articles I was. Maybe I should be getting paid to do your job.

Sunday night, after the Lakers first win against boston - LO threw a late night party at a club in LA, despite there being a game on Tuesday.

And, since you're apparently not aware:

http://www.lakerscore.com/lakers-news/nba-finals/
the-answer-to-the-beat-la-t-shirt/

http://deadspin.com/5014569/lamar-odom-wants-you-to-know-boston-sucks

Oh, and BTW, the Lakers LOST that Tuesday night game, after Lamar partied all night long on Sunday.

Oh, and another late-night party after the Game 5 win:

http://www.tmz.com/2008/06/16/lamar-odom-shouldnt-you-be-in-bed/

From the previous thread:

Happy 4th of July from SoCal everybody.

I listened to some of those Rick Fox interviews live and they were absolutely brilliant. But I don't think that the Lakers are that far off in the mental toughness department. He's right that they need more toughness. They have Kobe, Fish, Farmar (the only one who was scrapping with PJ Brown in the finals) at their core. I think Bynum has shown flashes of mental toughness, and I think Pau is mentally tougher than he is physically. If the Lakers can bring in Posey and one good tough-minded banger, they would be fine. Maybe sign Posey to the mid-level, and trade Lamar Odom for a good tough enforcer-type power forward.

Sorry, may have gotten my days mixed up there.

LO partied after Game 3 on a Tuesday night, then again after Game 5 on a Sunday night when he should've been preparing for a flight to Boston. Both times, the Lakers lost the next game, and Lamar played horribly.

Absolute Truth,

No, I'm perfectly aware of LO's T-shirts. But there's a HUGE difference between having someone else sell a shirt design you helped come up with and LO spending his all downtime out promoting and pimping the shirts. You made it sound like the latter, which wasn't the case.

As for the party, do you really know LO was out "all night," much less couldn't recover TWO DAYS later for a game? I'm guessing you don't, which is why I said, you're presenting this in exaggerated fashion. The TMZ clip shows him arriving, not leaving. How do you know he didn't stay maybe an hour, then take off? If you have a 6 am flight, is it really that big a deal whether you go to bed at 12:30 or 2? Either way, you're gonna be tired and likely sleeping on the plane. And you have 48 hours to recover.

Look, I get you don't like LO's game and you want him traded. Fine. That's your opinion. Run with it. But make your case by what actually happened, not by twisting stuff into the worst context possible in unfounded fashion.

AK

Ex,

I guess we just don't agree on the quality of LO's playoffs. Fair enough.

AK

I'm sorry, but I just have no sympathy for a guy who spends the 2 most important weeks of his professional life trying to find a way to capitalize and make money off the situation instead trying to figure out how not to play like a total turd on a stick.

AK,

Are you kidding? A- ? On what curve? Here's a guy who was supposed to be the #2 scorer, but couldn't cut it in that role; then he seemed to flourish when demoted to #3, but disappeared in the finals.

An A- for a guy who has NEVER consistently lived up to his potential?

An A- would be just short of "Excellent." Definitions and synonyms for "Excellent" are (1) blue ribbon; (2) first-class; (3) splendid; (4) superb; (4) first-rate; (5) magnificent; (6) unparalleled; (7) stupendous.

LO didn't come close to any of those. Odom wishing he were any of those things is a far cry from achieving them. Don't get me wrong. Nearly all of us would like Odom to get there. But it hasn't happened. An A- would merit consideration for the Hall of Fame. That's not a distinction he's come close to achieving.

Absolute Truth,

Shut it man. As Ak said, he wasn't out on the streets with a lemonade stand-type of booth, selling the shirts himself 'till the wee hours of the morning, he helped with the design. Chill out. If that's the worst he's doing two days before a game then I'm cool with it.

I say we keep LO and see how things work when AB returns. LO isn't as bad a defender as people might think, and I think AB's return will have the same impact KG had on the Cs. Once your big man shows the desire to tough it out and play lock-down D, the rest of the team will take notice, just as they do when Kobe turns it up a notch on the defensive end. Keep him, if it doesn't work, then we'll explore our options at the trade deadline.

Happy 4th everyone!

-bozz-

Andrew Kamenetzky,

"Call me crazy, but I think folks will be willing to pick up an argument retroactively after a holiday weekend. haha"

Thanks for the reply. Ding ding. Looks like it's already begun.

Have a great weekend!

Man i that this. we loose and everybody wants to trade people. Pretty easy to see why the laker fans got critiziced for not being loud enough. We have a bunch of bandwagons fans. The true fans are the ones who watch every game from their tv cuz they can't afford to go to staples.

You all have to ease up on L.O. If it wasn't for him there is no way we would have gotten pass Utah. L.O. brings it night in and night out, results aren't always there, but nobody could question his heart. We need him on our team, without him we won't get far.

Why can't you guys just be happy for what they accomplished this year? and support them for next?

Go Lakers.

Hey fellow blogger thought youmight be interested in this: http://tinyurl.com/6a3jn5

So where is he supposed to play? He can't shoot the three for crap so what good is he at small forward? The Lakers don't need a 6'10" defender on the wings who's only offensive game doesn't extend 15 feet from the basket. His contract is a liability, period. Why wait until February to ditch him? Nobody has any interest in keeping him, and for good reason.

Rick,

"Are you kidding? A- ? On what curve? Here's a guy who was supposed to be the #2 scorer, but couldn't cut it in that role; then he seemed to flourish when demoted to #3, but disappeared in the finals."

Well, like I said in the write up, I consider LO "supposed to be the #2 scorer" as an inappropriate role, so I'm not gonna ding him for not excelling at it. I also don't consider him being the third guy a "demotion," especially since it's how he's best used and he pretty much kicked ass doing it. The scale I used to grade comes in part from what I expect from a player when used in a manner where they can succeed. Along those lines, Lamar did very well.

As for the Finals, LO had one monster game, one good half, and a lot of ups and downs from there, as I acknowledged. But as I also acknowledged, no Laker played more than one high quality complete game. So unless you expect me not to give Kobe an "A" (spoiler alert!!!), I think a little perspective is necessary.

"An A- would merit consideration for the Hall of Fame. That's not a distinction he's come close to achieving."

That would only be true if the "A-" was for LO's career. I graded him on a season. You don't get to the HOF on one season.

What would you give him, just out of curiosity?

AK

Absolute Truth,

Say what you want about his game and how it fits in with the Lakers, but don't attack Lamar's character or work ethic.

Some guys have certain game habits while others don't. Did Mickey Mantle or even Michael Jordan go home early to sleep in before every important game (instead of, say, heading off to Atlantic City to gamble)? Obviously not. You can't presume Lamar was necessarily being irresponsible just because he was off doing something distasteful to you.

Did you ever stay out late the night before an important exam or deal at work? Lamar's a character guy and who are you to tell him what he can and can't do? Last time I checked, you weren't paying his contract.

All in all, the Lakers don't need negative fans booing them at Staples during the playoffs, or unabashedly trashing players who helped them make it to the FINALS when a lot of commentators predicted that they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Let's be grateful that the Lakers aren't the CLIPPERS and that we have an awesome chance to win the whole thing next year:)

I think I agree with LO's grade.

He has been frustrating at the least, but also good at the end.

I still don't really know where I stand in terms of his future. 14 mill for a 3rd/4th option? (same as Pau by the way, though I think Pau goes up)

Go Lakers!

What has LO done for us lately?

A- season. B+ playoffs. C Finals (no pun intended)

To beat a dead horse deader, when the man faces up and is no threat to shoot, he's got an exploitable weakness at this level of play.

He'd cut down the offensive foul yielding drives, and there'd be better spacing for the bigs.

The latter will be THE big issue next season.

LO is at the stage of his career where guys like Malone and MJ developed a go to mid range weapon. It's time.
see Walton, Luke.

Faith,

At this point, I think LO's money is an irrelevant point that people should stop focusing on. It is what it is and the contract is almost done. And wherever he signs his next deal, whether with the Lakers or another team, it'll be for a pay cut. Nobody's gonna give him another 14 mil/year deal, unless he plays at an MVP-level next season.

AK

How EXTREMELY misleading!

At the top of the page, the KTLA thingy, it says, right in the headline: "Kobe says he's better than Kevin Garnett", then you watch the useless thing and it's a hodgepodge of useless news and NOTHING ABOUT KOBE.

I'm boycotting these things from now on. I encourage everybody else to boycott it as well, that is EXTREMELY MISLEADING and the other USELESS news they put on there is right off the Drudge Report... HOW LAME!!!

Kwaminus,

I actually know what you're referring to. It shouldn't be there. I was having a training session for video yesterday and was asked to plug in a Lakers related headline for any random video clip as part of the walk through. I wrote it as a joke, because Kobe obviously didn't say it and it was just to show me where the headlines go. From there, it should have never gone live, nor was it supposed to. I'm not sure why it did, but I'm trying to get in touch with one of the video people to get it taken down.

Thanks for the heads up. And again, please don't take it as a slight against Kobe or the Lakers. It was an honest mistake.

AK

AK,

Are you sure? If he improves just a smidge on his numbers...Lakertom will give him the max haha, jk. Joking only.

You're right.

Here's my question as you're one in the "know" lol...does LO work out? I mean what's his work ethic like? The guy has obvious weaknesses. Weaknesses that has arguably been around his whole career...why doesn't he work on it? <-----Things that frustrates us fans.

Absolute Truth:

On the articles you posted, it said proceeds from the t-shirt sales were directed towards his charity foundation, "Cathy's Kids"

So where do you base your statement that he was prioritizing his attempts to capitalize financially through t-shirt sales during the finals, rather than focusing on his game?

oh... well, ok then... LOL! It reminded me of the shows like Entertainment Tonight that are unwatchable, we're gonna tell you about this but FIRST! we're gonna tell you about this but before we do that we're gonna tell you about this which is something we'll talk about later in the show but right now, let's play this music going into commercial... and after the break, we'll tell you about this! and on and on...

One other thing, what was it? Oh yeah, Lamar Odom SUCKS! Well... definitely not "A" material, he takes too many games off, I'd give him a solid "B" for this year. He had streaks of games where he was very good but then he would disappear for another stretch of games and there is never a pattern of when these bad stretches are going to happen. He'll have good games against good teams, then play bad against bad teams. Yet... then he'll go through another stretch where he disappears against bad teams and everybody says he'll kick it into high gear against the good teams and he does and then we forget that sure as the sun rises, he will disappear again, without warning...

He's almost like a more dependable Vlad Rad. If Vlad Rad could put up 20 points every third or fourth game and disappear for the others he would almost be as valuable as Odom. Yeah, Odom does little things but other guys could come in and do some of that stuff if Radmanovic was dropping say 4, 3 pointers in a quarter, things like that...

The Lakers would be making a big mistake if they let LO go. He brings too much to table that most people cant see between the lines. He is sometimes inconsistant but who isn't? The guy has character, you guys should be happy we have him on our squad. No other player has the abilities he has at his height and the opportunities he provides in plays. I agree that we can definetaly use a ron artest or marion but by simply replacing LO with one or the other is not going to cut the mustard in any sort of way i guarantee you that much.

AK,

What grade would I give LO? Fair question. Before Gasol arrived, a B-. Regular season with Gasol, a B+. Playoffs, B+.
Finals, C+. I guess that would average out to a B.

My curve is, "What is the best this guy can achieve under the circumstances?" LO had his share of games once Gasol arrived where he played up to his potential. But consistency is the key. When Lamar consistently plays up to his potential, both offensively and defensively, I'm ready to give him an A or A-.

But too often, Lamar is victimized by his demons. Shaving that silly star on his head, thinking that would propel him into the All-Star game was a full-blown demonstration of the insecurities that have blighted his career. Mentally and emotionally, LO has proven time and again that he simply doesn't believe he is championship material. Until HE believes it, it won't happen.

Think of all the post-game sessions you attended where Lamar admitted his head wasn't in the game, or spouted the generalized confession "We got our asses kicked," without owning up individually to his part. Well, those were games where the Lakers got their butts kicked when LO simply didn't show up. For a while, it got to the point where I didn't even want to hear him say anything after a game.

Garnett, Allen, and Pierce during the regular season and during the finals found a level of consistency as a unit that the Lakers Big 3 didn't. LO played too big a role in that shortcoming to merit more than a B.

I hate the fact that so many Laker fans don't like Odom. I enjoyed his play the whole season, even though he occasionally decided to take too many jump shots, or make some bad decisions. Apart from Kobe, tell me who had more of an impact on the Lakers success than Lamar? I know he was the third option when Gasol came, but he played like a second option. I love Gasol too, but Lamar made the offense flow. There were so many times this season, when Kobe and Gasol would sit to start the second quarter, and Lamar plus the bench players would be very effective, get a lead, or extend one. I know that next season Lamar will be the fourth option, but if he contributes like a second option, then what's everyone problem? I know the psychology of not having that much pressure on him is what pushes him to get better numbers, but if he gets them why is everyone complaining? Plus, you can't say that Lamar can't handle pressure anymore. I used to think before this season that Lamar was really unclutch, and even though throughout stretches of this year he wasn't the greatest clutch player, in the playoffs he showed an ability to handle situations down the stretch well. Stop the hate against Lamar. Just agree that he had a very good season, and he does deserve an A-.

AK -

This is one grade that I heartily agree with - LO's the only guy on the Lakers who can guard players like Dirk, Tracy, Brand, Boozer, and a few others (in the west). Extremely versatile; selfless; great teammate.

LO as the team's 4th option is BETTER than any other team's 4th option (as an individual player). I challenge anyone to come up with a better 4th option than LO.

I'm greatly looking forward to the start of a healthy campaign this fall for the Lake Show!

Well…

I personally can live with LO’s game, but not for any more double digit a year salaries should the Lakers choose to resign him after his contract expires next season.

No not for a number 3 or 4 option anyhow. As I heard one sports-radio commentator remark once, “many players in the NBA have fade-away jumpers. But Lamar has ‘fade-away games’” Particularly in big game situations, which can literally frustrate the heck out of you.

That being said, and since I’m not convinced in LO playing a SF position at 6’10” and no reliable outside shot next year. I feel if the Lakers could add a player like James Posey to actually start at the SF slot. Then bring Lamar off the bench to back-up Gasol at the PF. Or to play alongside Gasol in last season’s role should Bynum get in early foul trouble or something.

This would be quite a formidable roster if combined with Kobe, and Farmer starting in the back court. You have a bench mob of LO, Fisher (due to age) Trevor, Sasha, Vlad-Rad, Turiaf, ect…

Therefore, I would like to see the Lakers go more aggressively after Posey. Perhaps offering him as an incentive to sign, a role in the starting line-up.

I thought grades were given based on whata player did during the 07/08 season, correct? If that's right then i have to agree with AK. Yes, Lamar has had a few bad seasons, heck I even called him dead weight, but he has gotten better this year. Give him the credit he deserves for the good work he did this year and hope that next year he continues to grow.

Rick, I rahter like the fact that he says things like "We got our butts kicked", they win as a team and they lose as a team.

Good breakdown on Odom AK. I agree with most of what you said. But I do agree with some of the posters regarding his commitment to the game, such as not partying during the finals. Although to be fair, even Jordan took time off to gamble during his playoff runs and finals.

As far as his "brain cramps" I've never seen a player of his caliber make so many really bad decisions during crucial times. That goes back to past seasons as well.

Although I'd feel more confident if we had Artest or Posey, and the neither the Spurs nor the Celtics are able to sign Posey or obtain someone like Magette. I think even without Artest, Magette, Posey or anyone else, the Lakers will still be favored to win it all assuming that Bynum comes back to his 2007-2008 form. As for Walton, as I've said before many times, I know everyone is down on him, but with less playing time, I think he'll come back to be a better player next year. Vlade is a lost cause and is only good to play in situations where he doesn't have to guard anyone.

Thank you AK,

I've been saying all along that the LO is a really nice player. This season he averaged more rebounds and assists than Gasol. And if I'm not mistaking they weren't to far off in blocks either.

The lakers would be nuts not to see what a liineup of bynum,gasol and odom could do. At the very least there should be a massive improvement in rebounds for the lakers next year(which i feel was a main factor that they lost in the finals).

People jump on LO becuase its become the "popular" thing to do. Pau and fish had just as many bad games a LO (if not more) but they won't get nearly as much heat as LO on this blog. LO is not a perfect pf/sf but he's better than most.

I also think this is one of those times were the lakers would be better off keeping LO than trading his contract away. Even if he dosen't fit with pau and bynum as a starter (even though I think he will) he could be a great 6th man and you stated. Andif all of those options fail and he just dosen't work out on this team the lakers get 14 mill in cap space next year to extend bynum and then maybe sign artest or marion next year.

The kings will not make any trade with the lakers -people need to just forget about that. The kings will send him to the heat, knicks or even the spurs before they would send him to LA.

For THIS season an A- is just about on point. People are just pissing on him now becuase he didn't have a great finals. Nobody on the team had a great finals not even kobe. Odom stayed attacking the rim the whole series its just that many of his attempts rattled out but it wasn't from a lack of effort thats for damn sure.

To give a grade you have to set a curve.

First, Lamar has the Salary of an All Star and hence the level of play if expected. Second he is more athletically gifted than 99% of the league. And last he has more skill than 99% of the league, yet somehow he has become a third option with the prospect of becoming a fourth option or bench player.

Lamar Odom should be one of the best players in the league but somehow something isn't right. Whether it is dissapearing in games, tackling Ray Allen on the sideline of a game or getting benched in the 4th quarter of big games Lamar Odom can never get over that hurdle of being a guy you can count on.

Also after four years Lamar still is unable to run a two man offense with Kobe which should be a deadly combo and what makes it even more frustrating is Pau was able to do it in his very first game.

To me Lamar deserves a C for coasting through yet another season with no progress.

Some of you seem to be confusing "character" with "being fun to hang out with". My definition of character, in professional sports, is someone who busts their butt and gives their "maximum." That means during the game and during practice, and it means working on their weaknesses. It also means minimizing distractions as much as possible. It is not specifically related to the level of talent or the level of performance. I don't see a lot of that in Lamar. I see someone who cares, during the games, but not enough to put in the extra work to address his weaknesses.

In game 4 against the Celtics, Lamar came out like an all-star only to disappear in the second half. That game epitomized who and what Lamar is. That is why you hear so many "Odumb" and "Trade Lamar" comments. Recent posts have him drinking before game 6 and frequenting a strip club (with Bynum). I highly doubt Lamar will ever reach his full potential, so if he remains a Laker we will all have to live with his inconsistencies. But on the bright side Lamar will give the blog great material for the rest of his career.

LAMAR STARRING AS THE SCARECROW IN THE WIZARD OF OZ

I COULD BE A BETTER BALLER
IF MY HEAD WAS ONLY SMALLER
IT JUST GETS IN THE WAY
dodo dodo dodo

I WOULD FLY THROUGH THE AIR WITH EASE
AND DUNK IT WITH AUTHORITY
IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN

I COULD BE A BETTER SHOOTER
BUT I'D RATHER BE AT HOOTERS
DRINKING BEFORE A GAME
dodo dodo dodo

I WOULD MAKE ALL MY 3 POINT SHOTS
BUT HANGOVERS BLUR MY VISION LOTS
IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN

THEY SAY I COULD BE MAGIC
BUT THAT WOULD BE JUST TRAGIC
TO DRIBBLE MY LIFE AWAY
dodo dodo dodo

SO I'LL TOKE AND TOKE THE CHRONIC
WHO CARES IF IT MAKES ME MORONIC
IT'S ONLY JUST A GAME

Lamar Odom had a very good season coming off shoulder and knee injuries. Both of the injuries prevented Lamar from practicing on shooting, lateral movement, etc...as he was working on rehab.

He started the season slow and started to pick up his game before the Pau Gasol trade. Both complemented each other well and he became very good toward the end of the season. With LO, Gasol, and Kobe in the line up, the Lakers were winning at an .850 clip.

Early in the playoffs he excelled. Many here were saying he became the Beast we always wanted as we beat Denver.

He played excellent ball against Utah, matching the Jazz physical nature. The Lakers would not have beaten the Jazz without Lamar.

San Antonio, the Lakers won with team defense with Lamar a big part of it. The Lakers corrected the rebounding problems that hurt us against Utah, Lamar leading the way.

After the first round, Odom said each game was a new experience for him, but he did very well until the Finals.

He was up and down, but mainly down and very disappointing to me. Most of the games he was on the bench due to foul problems and never really established his game.

My first thoughts on AK's grade was it was too high, but after breaking down the whole season, its hard to argue with anything lower. LO was a valuable piece to the Lakers. The Lakers would've never made it through the tough Western Conference without him.

Don't tell Denver, Utah, and San Antonio, the Lakers are not a mentally tough team. Losing to Boston had a lot to do with lack of team experience, not to LO being some lousy player as some have said.

Just by lamar dropping to a third option Ill give him a B. Since when is it good for a guy like lamar with all his supposed potential to be a third option. That is underachieving in my book.

Plus lamar still had alot of games in the playoffs where he was so inconsistent. Everybody did not play well in the finals but lamar played even worst. Phil benched him in the fourth quarter half of those final games if I remember correctly. Man that is terrible. A- is way too generous. Home boy deserves a B. Like I've said Lamar will not be on this team after next year for sure, unless he accepts like 8 million for six years.

Should we trade Odom or enjoy the 'Great Experiment'?

If you listen to Mitch, the answer is no. He and PJ want a full year to go with the experiment.

His value is high on the trade market, with the expiring contract and I'm sure is why many writers were speculating about a trade.

But I feel his expiring contract has more value to the Lakers.

If the experiment works and the Lakers become dominant, you could re-sign LO for less. If it doesn't work, Dr Buss could use some lux penalty relief, while not bringing LO back.

Sure you lose a quality player, but Dr Buss might value the relief more. He could better then afford to sign a MLE replacement. Business of the game may make the decision for Buss.

My take: If LO is not traded before camp, the Lakers will not make a major trade by Feb. too unsettling to the team chemistry.

LO stays, he works out great, and Odom re-signs for less. Personally, I can't wait to see how the 'Great Experiment' works out. LO at the one? Interesting.

Kobe don't deserve a A with the way this team played in the finals. A- is good enough. Getting an A means you were close to perfect, and that last series Kobe and the rest of the guys were not close to perfect. If you were to break down kobe's season he gets an A for regular season, another A for the playoffs, and a B to B- for the finals. Not only that, the finals still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If the lakers had even shown more tenacity Ill say yea those kids deserve their props. But we lose a game we were up 24, then we get kicked by 40 point in the last game of the year. No way that anybody on this team deserve an A. Thats utterly ridiculous to me. I live in Cleveland and people constantly throw that crap in my face. Its an embarrassment, and I have absolutely nothing to counter that with.

Pau/Lamar/Luke/Vladimir lost their manhood against Boston.
When the above 4 players woke up the next morning after losing to the Celtics, they-like most men-needed to urinate.
When they look down, their, "twig and berries" were no longer there and they now have the ability to give birth.
Losing by 39-and thus losing your manhood.
You don't recover from that.
Kobe/Andrew/D-Fish/Sasha: I feel your pain, knowing that you will not win a championship with the above 4 WNBA
players.

AK,

Admit it. You gave Odom an A- on purpose to keep what was already going to be a very lively discussion incredibly lively.

Lamar is an incredibly frustrating player because we can see his potential.

We see him outhustle and get really tough rebounds. We see him make some open jumpers. We see him clean up the glass and get lots of easy putbacks. We see him play great individual defense on good offensive players. We see him dominate Marion in the 05-06 first round of the playoffs. We see this guy when he's aggressive and when his head is in the game that is one hell of a player.

Those of us that have watched more than 10 games this season since we got Gasol have seen other things. We've seen Odom miss easy finishes after a great first few steps. We've seen Odom draw charges with his trademark leftward slide that people expect. We remember Odom saying not developing his right hand has worked so far so why change. We've seen Odom completely disappear in all aspects of a game for no discernable reason. We've seen sporadic defense, particularly bad help defense for most of his career. We've seen the brain farts at critical moments at the end of games. We've seen a guy that makes 14 M a year and is a critical part of our team play to 80 percent of his potential 25 percent of the time.

I feel like a moron, an overly open-minded leftie, a guy just looking forward waiting for a knife to be thrust into his back to be willing to give Odom one last chance. The line-up shouldn't matter that much, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

The Lakers management tried to trade Odom much of last year. There's a reason for it.

Odom's rabid defenders see potential that has as yet (in an 8 year career?) been unrealized. I see the potential too, I'm just mature and experienced enough to realize that some people just don't come through. I realize that patterns of behavior by individuals get repeated and expect that be the case. People don't usually change.

Lamar doesn't seem capable of long-term motivation. He steps up his game near the end of seasons and in the playoffs (until this year's Finals). He's missing something essential inside that motivates him to play hard and with his head.

In fantasy basketball, the best players to have are consistent. You can predict the impact that they have and they don't ruin you by totally disappearing for 1-7 games at a time. In real basketball, there are some parrallels.

I'd give Odom a B. He had maybe 20 games in which he earned his salary before Pau arrived. He earned it in most home playoff games (except the Finals) too. I'm scaling his grade based on expectations and making it higher than I otherwise would have because he did help so much in the playoffs and at the end of the season when we made our unlikely run to first in the West.

Someone (Odom himself most importanty) needs to take a look in Odom's head and clean out the junk. Does he want to be a player that wins multiple championships or is he happy just dogging it most of the time and playing hard when he feels like it?

Odom probably would fit best as our sixth man or on another team. You get ONE more chance buddy.

Happy 4th everyone!

It's a good to hear Bynum is cleared.

I eagerly await inspired words from LakerTom!

AK and all,

I know this is off topic but how many of the Celtics Free Agents can they sign. I know they have Posey, Tony Allen, Sam Cassel PJ Brown. They don;t have any of the Bird rights to these guys. I think the Celtics are a one hit wonder. They are way over the cap and they can't afford to resign all of these guys in particular Posey who was invaluable off the bench. I know the Lakers choked at the finals but i can say definitively they will be there next year.

MJT

HAPPY 4th everyone!

...and to celebrate, the greatest version of the Star Spangled Banner ever, by the great Marvin Gaye....enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRvVzaQ6i8A

Lamar is talented but flawed. He will have trouble adjusting to the 3, if that is the plan. Instead, they should take the 96 min/game for the 4 and 5 positions and divide the time between Bynum, Gasol and Odom based primarily on performance and matchups. If Lamar can give 6 minutes per half at the 3, then there should be enough minutes to go around. This would also allow all 3 to play aggressively on defense, knowing that the team will be OK if they get in foul trouble (a particular issue for Odom and Bynum historically).

If Lamar is to play at all at the 3, he MUST improve his outside shot, AND he must develop a low post game to take advantage of height mismatches. He had his worst problems in the Finals against Boston's small lineup when matched against Posey. He became passive, fearing to drive and pickup a charge. Even when he got a low post entry pass, he had no moves and looked to pass only, even with a major height advantage.

The Lakers should make an offer to Maggette for the full MLE. He wants to stay in LA after all. But, more important than getting him, it probably guarantees that he stays away from the Spurs and Celtics, both of which can only offer he same. If he can get full MLE from the Lakers, then he will try to get more elsewhere, but if he can't, he'll stay in LA rather than going to our competitors. If he comes here, then Walton should be traded (packaged with Mihm?) and Rad goes into deep freeze (he's untradeable, unless we take back a bad contract).

Absolute Truth,

No, I'm perfectly aware of LO's T-shirts. But there's a HUGE difference between having someone else sell a shirt design you helped come up with and LO spending his all downtime out promoting and pimping the shirts. You made it sound like the latter, which wasn't the case.

As for the party, do you really know LO was out "all night," much less couldn't recover TWO DAYS later for a game? I'm guessing you don't, which is why I said, you're presenting this in exaggerated fashion. The TMZ clip shows him arriving, not leaving. How do you know he didn't stay maybe an hour, then take off? If you have a 6 am flight, is it really that big a deal whether you go to bed at 12:30 or 2? Either way, you're gonna be tired and likely sleeping on the plane. And you have 48 hours to recover.

Look, I get you don't like LO's game and you want him traded. Fine. That's your opinion. Run with it. But make your case by what actually happened, not by twisting stuff into the worst context possible in unfounded fashion.

AK

Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 04, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Bottom line:
Lamar should not have been partying, period.
Party after the finals.
And your grading of Lamar is reallly sad.
I've said it before and i will say it again.
Pau/Lamar/Luke/Vladimir lost their manhood against the Cs.
And they will never recover.
I don't know who is worst in their Lakers blind love:
you, your brother, or Vic The Brick.

Passionate Laker Fan,

"I don't know who is worst in their Lakers blind love:
you, your brother, or Vic The Brick."

I'm pretty sure Vic The Brick wins.

AK

Peter Maguire,

Great post. Cool to see everybody stopping by even though the season is over. Your comments directed to Phil and Kobe were right on. The greatest coach and the greatest player came up short in the greatest stage. This time. I still say we would have won if we had Andrew and we will prove it this season. And when we do, Boston Celtics fans will finally realize how lucky they were to win the championship this year.

While I admit there is probably nobody more optimistic about the Lakers, I am surprised so many fans are still not convinced that Drew is going to be the next great Lakers center. It’s like they’re afraid of getting too high on Drew and risking being disappointed so they ignore the obvious signs of potential greatness and claim that he ain’t done nothing yet, hasn’t won a ring, been an all-star, or even played great for an entire season.

Before long, these fans actually have convinced themselves that it wasn’t really Andrew who stood up to Shaq’s bullying, threw down those thunder dunks on Amare, or blocked Tim Duncan’s or Chris Kaman’s shots. They forget that Jerry West says Drew made the Lakers the best team in the league before we traded for Pau Gasol or that Kobe Bryant says Drew makes the Lakers a “championship caliber” team. They forget that most NBA experts and analysts already consider Drew to be the #3 center in the league at 20.

The funniest result of all of this is that these Lakers fans are actually willing to risk losing Drew by not signing him to an extension this summer because of their fears. They claim there is no way that we become a free agent. Well, they’re wrong. First round draft picks on NBA rookie scale contracts like Drew have a special set of rules where all extensions must be signed after the 3rd year and before the start of the 4th year of the contract.

This means that the Lakers will have one and only one opportunity to sign Drew to a contract extension, which will start as soon as the free agent moratorium is over in a few days and run until October 31. If Drew does not sign an extension by then, the Lakers lose their negotiating leverage and risk losing Drew since he would have an open path to become a free agent in 2 years with the Lakers helpless to prevent it.

Fortunately, Jerry Buss and Mitch Kupchak are not going to risk losing a franchise player as unique as Drew. If forced to, which I don’t foresee happening, the Lakers would even agree to a max contract to insure that Andrew Bynum did not become a free agent. They know that Drew is the Lakers next great Lakers center and franchise player and they will lock him up for as many years as they possibly can before October 31st .

Nobody knows how good or great Andrew Bynum is going to be but I think that Jerry Buss and Mitch Kupchak and the Lakers front office are as high on Drew as I am, which would mean that either they’re crazy too or that I am actually right. The bottom line is that the Lakers are already sold on Andrew Bynum and are going to give him a $70M to $80M 5-year contract and pronounce him to be the next great Lakers center.

Sorry for turning my response to you into my daily soapbox about Drew’s extension but I thought it was important for everyone on the blog to understand why the Lakers have to sign Drew to an extension this summer so that we can save money and guarantee that he will be wearing purple and gold for the coming 5 years. Thanks again for a great post.

Tom

The ball movement of the whole team is just much better when LO is on the floor compared to when he is on the bench. The moments in the Finals and other series, when the Lakers were left standing around and going one-on-one was when LO was in foul trouble and sitting on the bench. Watch your replays-you can bet on it.
Its also the same reason why LO is often the starter that PJ likes to leave on the floor when the other 4 players are bench players. Even more than Kobe.
Sure, one can argue that LO is overpaid for being the "glue", "the facilitator", etc. but that is not our problem. If the FO wants to pay him the money-good for us.
You can have too many stars in a team wanting the ball and not have enough balls to play with. That has been proven time and time again in the NBA. In Kobe, we already have one of the players in the NBA that most dominate the ball. Add Bynum and Gasol and we truly need a Lamar type who thrives as the 4th option and willing to do the dirty work of rebounds and defense.
Of course, LO has his weaknesses.
He has a problem with bigger, heavier PFs and that's fine bec. he can counter with better quickness and ball handling. He has a problem with smaller SFs that have quick lateral movement but he can counter with his height and length. In a way, he is a tweener, that is a bit of a compromise between a stereotype PF and a stereotype SF.
But that's something for the coaching staff to exploit.

I hope he works on his 3 pt shooting during the summer as a big improvement in this area will immensely help spread the floor when Bynum and Gasol are playing twin towers.

I hope the coaching staff consider using LO as a sixth man next year and use the sixth man award as an incentive. And I hope that LO has a strong enough ego to accept the possibility of not starting every game. LO's ideal position is really backing up Gasol in PF, and backing up Ariza or Posey in SF, coming in according to matchups. As a super sub for 2 or even 3 positions, he can still average more minutes than a normal starter in the NBA.
The possibility of using LO as a tall PG a la Magic has also been hinted by the FO. This may also work depending on the matchups.

Benjamin,
You left out that we have seen Lamar forget to box out on very key rebounds. Lamar is not an especially good rebounder from a technique perspective, he's a good rebounder because of his athleticism. Another area where he hasn't worked to improve his game.

AK,

“There is absolutely no reason to panic, no reason not to see how Lamar plays with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol (or even off the bench as a sixth man) before deciding that he absolutely "can't" fit. If that's indeed the case, his contract won't be any less expiring in February than next week.”

Thank you for a brilliant job on Lamar’s report card. The “A-“ almost brought tears to my eyes because I feel so strongly that Lamar deserves more appreciation from Lakers fans, especially us on the blog who should have seen enough this year to be Lamar fans. The Lamar critics need to “chillax” as you suggested.

I was happy to see that you also think Lamar can fit and be a valuable component to the upcoming Lakers championship teams. His unique character, versatility, and skills are a perfect fit for needs of this team. I’m with you in that Lamar may end up coming off the bench as the Lakers 6th man instead of starting, but I’m fine either way because I know the guy is going to do whatever the team needs, be it points, boards, assists, defense.

The Lakers actually are confronted with major contract issues on every front and Lakers fans have to be grateful that Jerry Buss has not shied from ponying up whatever cash it takes for the Lakers to build a championship team. We are lucky that the Lakers are in a market where they have the resources to pay heavy luxury taxes and still rake in profits. If the Knicks are the Yankees of the NBA, the Lakers are not far behind.

Tom

I think L.O. deserves the A- grade too. We forget that he defended quite well throughout the season, and consistently. Plus, despite his occasional inconsistencies, he is a very difficult matchup for any 4 (or 3) on the offensive end. And, he is an excellent teammate.

His greatest shortcoming is how he perceives himself. Kobe has even said it ... he doesn't realize how great he can be. I believe he is getting closer to the right mindset. And, after all, this season was his first deep playoff run of his career (as for Gasol). So, he should be cut some slack there.

As far as next season is concerned, I don't think we should peg Lamar as the 3 and ask how could that work out. There are plenty of minutes to go around for Lamar (at the 3 and 4; and maybe some point), Gasol (at the 4 and 5), Bynum (at the 5), and the remainder of the SF minutes (for whomever). Who the "other" lead 3 is for next season should be the greater concern ... not Lamar's status.

Of course, we all know that the Lakers actually did make it to the finals ... and adding Bynum and Ariza for next season, is in effect the same as adding a top 3 draft pick and another first round pick for next year (except they are already proven).

lamars dilemna has always been inconsistency,he's great only around the basket but cant score or defend against bigger opponents he cant be an sf coz he's slower than most and cant score with consistency on the perimetr. If they're going to play him as a small forward his numbers wil go down and worse he cant defend against the likes of paul pierce. There is a surplus of sf in lakers lineup its only fair to say they have to move somebody and he is the only tradable sf they have. I believe its time for an upgrade no matter how bad we feel and they should trade him for marion no other.

Kwaminus,

LOL. I fell for that same ploy and played their damn video with no mention at all of Kobe. Pretty low class stuff for the LA Times to pull. Fooled me once but not again.

Tom

To everyone talking about Lamar deserving a lower grade because being a third option means playing below his "potential," as I said before, I just don't see it that way. I think people for years have incorrectly evaluated/wished for what to expect from LO. Scoring isn't his M.O., and to try to force him into that role works against how he plays best. To me (and maybe just to me, I guess), that's not failing to meet potential as much as the potential being viewed in the wrong way.

In the meantime, Lamar is one of the best rebounders in the league, handles the ball in a way that creates mismatches, runs the break, works as a defender against a variety of positions, and does a lot of other stuff that many legit superstars don't. Why is it that none of those skill sets count towards meeting his "potential," but failing to score 20 ppg as opposed to 14-16 (which isn't exactly horrible) somehow damns him to "underachiever" status, no questions asked?

AK

Laker Tom (and others who may see it):

This is a repost I wrote to Kwamicus earlier about that video in question.

"I actually know what you're referring to. It shouldn't be there. I was having a training session for video yesterday and was asked to plug in a Lakers related headline for any random video clip as part of the walk through. I wrote it as a joke, because Kobe obviously didn't say it and it was just to show me where the headlines go. From there, it should have never gone live, nor was it supposed to. I'm not sure why it did, but I'm trying to get in touch with one of the video people to get it taken down.

Thanks for the heads up. And again, please don't take it as a slight by the Times against Kobe or the Lakers. It was an honest mistake.

AK"

An open letter to the "glass is half empty crowd,"

The Lakers are blessed to have Lamar Odom. An unselfish player, a reluctant star, we must remember how much trouble he causes the opposition:

He dominates shorter PF's with his quickness and length - does anyone remember Boozer's struggles? He is tough enough to cross-match opposing centers - did Perkins or Okur or Faberto "blow up" against us? He is quick and savy enough to control "freakish athlete" PF's - did Kenyon Martin excel against him? He has one exploitable weakness on DEFENSE, and that is being matched up against 7-ft players who's game is based on jumping over their man and releasing the ball at the top. Currently there are THREE such opponents worth mentioning - Garnett, Rasheed, and Lamarcus Aldridge:against those 3 players a double team may be necessary.

But against the other 26 teams? Lamar has one of the best defensive +/- numbers of any forward in the league. He is a decent FT shooter (could improve), an instinctive passer, and, pound-for-pound the most skilled rebounder in ALL of BASKETBALL. Then put the icing on the cake: how many 6'10" forwards that actually PLAY 6'10" can clean the glass and then lead the break? How many players in the league can literally play any of five positions on the court?

And although not an all-star, please consider the list of all-stars that have struggled against the rare speed/strength/length combination that is LO:

Marion
Garnett
Brand
Boozer
Bosh
Z. Randolph
D. West
Artest
Antawn J.
C. Webber
Dirk No-wits-key.

I can remember all of the above throwing up terrible numbers against LO during the last couple seasons on a least one occasion each.

Lamar's versatility make him perhaps the best 6th man prospect in the entire league. Think of Toni Kukoc, only substitue the former's 3pt game for Lamar's rebounding ability.

To those that think that assembling an "all-star" team will guarantee wins, well, that has been tried many times over, and the verdict is in: Knicks, Nuggets, to name a couple. Winning teams succeed because of a careful blending of talents and egos. Keeping this in mind, who in the entire world would be an improvement over Lamar Odom? He has played hurt, he has worked hard to improve, he is a team-first mentality, he has taken tough assignments.

I couldn't ask for anything more. Lamar will work to improve even more during the offseason because he wants to be here and he wants to win. And keep in mind that the young man has only JUST NOW entered into his competitive prime. The rest of the league is nervous - because the Lakers are very much on the verge of doing something really special...

respectfully
HIGH CHEESE

Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 03:26 PM

Laker Tom

Who are you talking to? Because I don't remember anyone here taking the stands you mentioned in your comment about not wanting to sign AB. Your building an argument with out any foundation. Very odd, especially coming from you, the most logical and persuasive commenter here.

Ajax

I've never heard that version by Marvin. That was incredibly inspiring. Maybe the best I've ever heard.

Before I forget, everyone have a great 4th of July.

AK,

“There is absolutely no reason to panic, no reason not to see how Lamar plays with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol (or even off the bench as a sixth man) before deciding that he absolutely "can't" fit. If that's indeed the case, his contract won't be any less expiring in February than next week.”

Thank you for a brilliant job on Lamar’s report card. The “A-“ almost brought tears to my eyes because I feel so strongly that Lamar deserves more appreciation from Lakers fans, especially us on the blog who should have seen enough this year to be Lamar fans. The Lamar critics need to “chillax” as you suggested.

I was happy to see that you also think Lamar can fit and be a valuable component to the upcoming Lakers championship teams. His unique character, versatility, and skills are a perfect fit for needs of this team. I’m with you in that Lamar may end up coming off the bench as the Lakers 6th man instead of starting, but I’m fine either way because I know the guy is going to do whatever the team needs, be it points, boards, assists, defense.

The Lakers actually are confronted with major contract issues on every front and Lakers fans have to be grateful that Jerry Buss has not shied from ponying up whatever cash it takes for the Lakers to build a championship team. We are lucky that the Lakers are in a market where they have the resources to pay heavy luxury taxes and still rake in profits. If the Knicks are the Yankees of the NBA, the Lakers are not far behind.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 03:42 PM

"...almost brought tears to my eyes...."
Like Hannibal Lecter, you, my friend, are insane.
Repeat after me (to recover your sanity):
PAU/LAMAR/LUKE/VLADIMIR= NO RINGS!!!

AK,
We're not saying that he should be given a D or an F, just that we don't think an A- is warranted.

lets watch the superbowl.....where the pats lose---

hahahaahha

still laughing at my loss at the superbowl...
next yr..will be the pats yr..if they can cheat again..

Ex,

"AK, We're not saying that he should be given a D or an F, just that we don't think an A- is warranted."

That's fine. I honestly don't mind if people disagree with my "grade." It's just that listening to some people talk about him, you'd think Lamar had a dismal season. It just strikes me as a little strong.

AK

he led the team in rebounding, was second in assists, was third in scoring and fg%. what more do you freaking want from the guy. he just wants to be a team player and he's damn good at doing it.

i know the exasperation when you see him use his patanted carryover dribble and take 2 freaky long steps to go from the three point line to a layup like the defense isn't there. and then he does it a couple more times so you know it's no fluke.. and then he shuts back down, deaf to your screams.

but whatever, we don't have to rely on him for scoring load anymore and his salary goes down after next season, at this point you're just haters.

passionate Lakers fan,

You’re too much but you are definitely passionate and I can respect that. No problem with that so long as you’re respectful and courteous. Oops.

Thanks for the repost. Some bloggers may have missed the original. Now that you have added Pau to your list of players who have to go, my only question is who’s next?

“Anything’s possible” in wild world of the Lakers Blog. No, I didn’t really say that.

Tom

hey passionate. who do you want on pf instead of pau/lamar. who's going to take lukomir, and what god awful contract will we get in return.

i would also like to apologize to you on behalf of the lakers for going to the finals and only being within one possesion of a lead in the final minutes of 3 of their loses.

our team sucks, we need to get a gm like memphis who's willing to cull the weak, or tough aggresive players like denver that get fired up at the end of games when they're down. oh wait...

passionate Lakers fan,

You’re too much but you are definitely passionate and I can respect that. No problem with that so long as you’re respectful and courteous. Oops.

Thanks for the repost. Some bloggers may have missed the original. Now that you have added Pau to your list of players who have to go, my only question is who’s next?

“Anything’s possible” in wild world of the Lakers Blog. No, I didn’t really say that.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 04:41 PM

The Lakers will never win a championship with:
Pau/Lamar/Luke/Vladimir.
Games 4 and 6 took away their manhood.
And you just don't recover from that.
I look forward to Lakers management packaging Pau and Lamar for a true power forward.
I would simply release Luke and Vladimir (we don't need these 2 cancers-along with the other 2 cancers above-on a team with players who play with passion).

Faith,

“Are you sure? If he improves just a smidge on his numbers...Lakertom will give him the max haha, jk. Joking only.”

I guess I deserved that even though I do not think we will have to give Drew a max deal. We’ll get a discount for the early commitment and for being the Lakers and Drew’s team and end up paying him somewhere around $70M for 5 years and all will be fine.

The Lakers really have no other reasonable option than to sign Drew to an extension of his rookie scale contract before October 31. Otherwise, Drew would have a clear path to become a free agent in two years if he wanted with the Lakers not able to stop him.

As for Lamar, I agree with AK that we will find a place for him either as the starting small forward or coming off the bench as a 6th man. Once his role has been established and Lamar continues to play like he did this year, he will get his extension.

Since he is not a 1st round draft pick on a rookie scale contract like Drew, where contract extensions can only be signed the summer before the final contract year, Lamar can sign an extension (really a new contract) anytime he and the Lakers reach agreement, which I expect Lamar to do sometime during the season next year.

I think Lamar would be willing to sign for something around $36M for 3-years, which would be a significant discount over his $14.5M salary for next year. I also think the Kobe will opt out after next season to sign a long term deal for around $20M per year much like Shaq did for the Heat after he was traded. Of course, Kobe will still earn his pay but the Lakers will save around $5M per year, maybe $10M including Lamar.

Jerry Buss is not stupid. The Lakers are able to pay more in salaries and luxury taxes than any team in the league other than the New York Knicks and still make a profit. The big win, however, is the appreciation in the value of the franchise, now worth $560M. Winning championships will only fuel bigger increases in the value of the franchise and give the Lakers even more resources with which to pay players.

Lamar really made some great leaps as a player this year. I remember him taking extra practice shooting free throws and following through with clutch free throws in games. He also made great strides this year in learning how to play without the ball, especially cutting to the basket. He also learned to play much smarter by cutting down on the outside shots and aggressively going to the rim every play to shoot a high percentage. And I think we all saw Lamar use his right hand more this year than ever before.

Tom

hey passionate. who do you want on pf instead of pau/lamar. who's going to take lukomir, and what god awful contract will we get in return.

i would also like to apologize to you on behalf of the lakers for going to the finals and only being within one possesion of a lead in the final minutes of 3 of their loses.

our team sucks, we need to get a gm like memphis who's willing to cull the weak, or tough aggresive players like denver that get fired up at the end of games when they're down. oh wait...

Posted by: db | July 04, 2008 at 04:59 PM

package Pau and Lamar for a power forward and start the new power forward with Andrew and Trevor.
I would buy-out Luke and Vladimir's contracts.

I can't wait for the day after the Lakers win the championship next year. I would love to see what everyone says about Lamar then. They'll probably say something like, "if we had someone else instead of him we would have won by more," or "yea, we won this year, but with Lamar there's no way we repeat."

Benjamin,

“Admit it. You gave Odom an A- on purpose to keep what was already going to be a very lively discussion incredibly lively.” – to AK.

LMAO. Brian and Andy are too upright and ethical to do that, right? Wrong! In a way, it’s their job to do that. I have always thought that was the real motivation behind many of little points that AK especially like to emphasize and argue over. (Just kidding and making sure you’re reading this stuff, Andy. LOL)

Tom

think Lamar would be willing to sign for something around $36M for 3-years, which would be a significant discount over his $14.5M salary for next year.

Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 04, 2008 at 05:09 PM
You, sir, are insane.

can't wait for the day after the Lakers win the championship next year. I would love to see what everyone says about Lamar then. They'll probably say something like, "if we had someone else instead of him we would have won by more," or "yea, we won this year, but with Lamar there's no way we repeat."

Posted by: laker hopeful | July 04, 2008 at 05:14 PM

If the Lakers win a championship with Lamar:
I will apologize to all the Lamar lovers.
I will never post on this blog again.

Oh, and AK:
I love the choice in picture of LO letting out a primal scream.
The irony:
He does not play with the passion displayed in that photo.

maybe i missed something, but if lamar gets an a what does pau get? or better yet Kobe?????? A b was more than enough for Odom, no one has been more consistant than Kb24. the only thing Lamar is consistant with is his inconsistancies!!!!!

you're an idiot
you're a moron
you're insane

I DISAGREE WITH THE MORON WHO IS INSANE AND AN IDIOT.
OR DO I AGREE WITH THE MORON WHO IS INSANE AND AN IDIOT

PLF -

You shouldn't have to ban yourself from the blog - I hope you don't think that people are trying to force you out.

The great thing about this forum is that people have the right to disagree; while I may disagree with you, I'm curious to know your thoughts on L.O.

To Recapitulate: I believe that you bring something to this blog even though I disagree with what you say about L.O.

I hope you decide to stick around. :-)

Fatty,

If you read the previous threads, there were two groups of misguided posters to whom I was really addressing my Drew comments to in my response to Peter Maguire:

The first group were bloggers who didn’t feel that Drew deserved to be offered a max or near max salary. He needs to show us more or show us he is healthy, which he now is. Suggestions were made that $9M per year would be fair, regardless of the fact that Drew might feel insulted by the offer. One blogger even suggested that we let him walk if he’s only about the “Benjamin’s.”

The second group felt that there was no way we should give Drew an extension at all because he has not earned it yet and we should just wait and match what he gets as a restricted free agent. These bloggers don’t realize Drew can just accept our qualifying offer, play out the year, and become an unrestricted free agent we lose for nothing.

The true issue that everybody needs to know is that if we do not sign Drew to an extension before October 31, he will have a clear path to becoming a free agent and we will either end up paying much more to keep him or lose him as a free agent. So in a sense you are correct that this is a moot issue because the Lakers will extend him.

I just want everyone to be aware of what the realities are and why we MUST sign him before the start of next year. That is worth blogging about in my mind.

Tom

Lamar getting the rebound and bringing it upcourt is a glimpse of Magic. Does he finish like Magic? Uh...no, but it is a rarity for a 6-10 guy do this as well as Lamar.

I believe Lamar (and other Lakers) improve. A rising tide.

HIGH CHEESE.

Welcome. Excellent post, especially the list of players who Lamar has defended well. Good to have another fan who can back up his take. Lamar deserves to be appreciated. Thanks for chiming in. Look for more from you in the future.

Tom

hey plf

i agree that a lot of those guys are a bit soft and kinda mentally weak, i've always said kwame luke and lamar (at least 2 had 2 go) anyways 2 are still left and pau is still better than kwame. Doubt trading both pau and lamar are in the fo plans. Maybe trading nieither, but if it was who do you get?????? It has to be someone like D howard and I don't see that hapenning. Garnett, and Timmy are getting old!!! Bosh? Amare?Shaq?(lol) definately just kidding.

I think alot of people are putting to much stock in thinking with Bynum a championshiop is guarenteed. Yes Kobe said with him there a contender which is/was true. However if you klistened to Kobe in his interview after the boston massacre(oops game 6) he also said that its no guarentees teams make it there one year and never make it back. That's the problem with this team while there are no guarentees and anything is possible you still have to know by now what your going to get out of vlad, luke, and lamar. Nobody wants to keep reaching the finals only to keep losing . Oh well what do I know there fixed anyhow and who woins is who stern wants to win.(lol)

AK,

"Kobe says he is better than KG."

Thanks for the explanation. I apologize to the Times.

Can't you stay out of trouble. LOL. I love your work on the blog but maybe you should consider switching to become a writer for one of the tabloids. You could write their all of their headlines and generate mucho clicks. LOL.

Tom

That's fine. I honestly don't mind if people disagree with my "grade." It's just that listening to some people talk about him, you'd think Lamar had a dismal season. It just strikes me as a little strong.

AK

Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 04, 2008 at 04:22 PM

I have to agree with you, Lamar had a good year and it looks like he found his comfort zone playing with Pau. It's not like he's a chronic underachiver like Vlad Rad.

I think one of the reasons fans are so hard on him is because we got him in the Shaq trade. Everyone including myself expected too much from him, hell we GAVE AWAY SHAQ and got him! I think everyone expected greatness and that's just not LO, he's a solid player but I really don't expect him to be an All Star.

DOCTORS CLEAR LAKERS BYNUM
by Janis Carr for OCRegister.com

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bynum-season-knee-2084686-foot-lakers

“The knee looks wonderful and we are anticipating that within a short period of time, he will start training," Bynum’s agent Lee said. "The doctors told him the knee was doing better than expected."

Andrew plans to go to Atlanta in two weeks to start his summer workouts with Sean Zarzana, the same trainer that he worked with last summer. Andrew says there is no pain or discomfort whatsoever in the knee now and he is eager to start training to get ready for training camp in early October. Expect him to show up as the new improved Beast.

This is great news for both Andrew and the Lakers, who must sign Drew to an extension before October 31 in order not to risk losing him to free agency. Drew is asking for an $80M 5-year deal which extend his contract and would begin the year after next.

While I think the Lakers will be able to get a discount from Drew because of committing to him long term and because he wants to be in purple and gold, it would be a bonus for the Lakers if Drew was willing to commit to a 5 year deal rather than to a 3-year deal plus player option like Chris Paul just did with the Hornets and LeBron, Wade, and Bosh did in their last contracts in order to be able to opt out and sign an even bigger deal as a free agent with the same or a different team.

It is a positive sign that Drew’s agent is looking for a 5-year deal. It shows that Drew really does want to stay with the Lakers and we want to lock him up for as many years as possible, which in this case is 5-years. The 5-year deal will end up saving the Lakers considerably compared to what they might have to pay if the deal was just for 3 years.

Tom

MORNING REPORT: POSEY AND MAGGETTE?
by Steve Kyler for HoopsWorld.com

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9361

Good updates on Free Agency. Looks like if Boston gets Maggette, then the Lakers may end up getting Posey. If so, who is the winner in that situation. Probably better for us than to see Maggette sign with San Antonio for a few years full MLE. That would not be good for the Lakers and other teams in the West.

Also, very interesting situation that Chris Mullen has put the Clippers in with his inspired raid on Elton Brand. Will Elton sacrifice $20M to stay a Clipper? Remember that the deal that Baron agreed to is only verbal and could end up being modified or cancelled so that the Clippers can keep Brand. Good stuff. Here are some excerps:

-----------------------

MAGGETTE AND POSEY: As the holiday weekend opens, there are some decisions to be made. Corey Maggette has told people that he has narrowed his list down to two main suitors – The San Antonio Spurs and the Boston Celtics. Maggette has not made a final decision and will not likely announce a decision until after July 9th, when teams can officially start spending cap money. Maggette may be a fall back option for the Warriors and the 76ers, although both seem unlikely, but Corey's camp is not going to commit to a Mid Level Exception deal until all the cap space dries up. There is also a remote chance that the Clippers could broker a sign-and-trade deal with Corey so he is holding the line. If push comes to shove and Mid Level is all Corey can get, the Spurs are indeed the front runners. The Boston Celtics may have tipped their hand too early with James Posey, when news of contact with Corey Maggette surfaced, Posey's camp got on the offensive opening talks with a number of interested teams including the Lakers. Sources close to the situation say if Boston does not come with a full boat (5-year) deal at the Mid Level, James has that from other teams. Posey wants to win, and loves his Boston teammates, but at this point in his career he's won two championships and it's more about money. Posey is not going to a lottery team, but with Cleveland, Houston and Lakers all standing with open arms, Boston has a tough decision to make; is there really room on the roster and on the salary cap for both Maggette and Posey?

BRAND'S DECISION: Baron Davis spoke with the media for the first time since announcing his decision to leave Golden State. One of the topics discussed was Elton Brand's $90 million five-year offer from Golden State. Davis said he understands and respects that Elton has to consider the offer seriously, but that he still expects to be playing with Elton next year in LA. The Clippers have a five-year $70 million deal on the table according to sources close to the situation, so there is a sizable gap in dollars. The Clippers are obviously nervous, because they went out and got Baron Davis at Elton's request. Brand is not expected to announce a decision anytime soon, so the drama of this will continue at least for the next few days.

--------------

Tom

Hey, blogmunity!

I just wanted to wish everyone a happy Fourth of July!

Lamar Odom = Laker for Life.

GO LAKERS!

AK

I agree that lamar shouldn't be traded and I agree he had a good season.I was happy you put the bit in about getting him at a bargain,If its a good team and he loves LA then we almost certainly get him cheap

BUT in an effort to counteract the anti lamar wave you've become a bit like the Kobe apologists and I saw more bias and truth stretching and glaring omissions here than in anything Ive ever seen you write

Peopel getting upset because the lakers were shorthanded - it wasnt that they lost it was the way they lost and Lamar was dreadful in the finals simply dreadful - if hes a leader he needed to do better.I mean it was the finals!!! not that he should be blamed for the loss but he was a big part of the problem.

And all this talk about character - Luke adds this and Turiaf adds that and Lamar adds this...its always been a big part of winning teams but are we taking it too far? are these guys going to get it done.They were pretty mentally weak in the finals...however lets kkep it in perspective and made the finals

But Lamar Im sorry B plus

The decision to keep LO or lose LO will be decided early in the season.

I think if our record isn't up par to what we think it should be (as an org), or a "piece" is perceived to be missing...then LO (as the only viable trade piece, one we're somewhat willing to lose)...will be traded.

It also depends on how he as a player does...if he plays well...you're talking extension.

Very generous grade of Lamar AK.
I think he was as good as he's been as a Laker for sure.
An A- doesn't feel right with that ending.
However, I think he was tougher than Pau was at times in that Finals.
He just wasn't relentless and that's why I would dock him down to a B.
You have to be excellent for an A.

passionate Lakers fan,

So I'm guessing at some point in June 2009 next year, we'll see your last post.

AGENT ZERO GIVES BACK $16M

Gilbert Arenas agreed today to $111M contract with the Washington Bullets, giving back $16M of the max offer that the Bullets had made in order to help the team put together a better supporting cast. Bravo to Gilbert for continuing a trend that hopefully will spread.

I predicted last year that Kobe would opt out of his contract after the end of next year to sign a similar long term deal with the Lakers that would be less than the max – maybe around $20M per year for 7 years – in order to help the Lakers keep the team together.

Arenas’ gesture will surely not go unnoticed by Kobe, for whom such a move would be a public relations blessing. It also bodes well for the Lakers being able to make a deal to give Drew a contract extension this summer for less than the max and to keep Lamar in purple and gold for less than what we are paying him now. Franchises are willing to pay luxury taxes and players are willing to forego max contracts in return for a better team and chance to win a championship. The NBA where miracles do happen. Good news.

Now, we just need to re-sign Sasha and Ronny and add Posey for improved defense. I think everybody is waiting for Elton Brand to make his decision. He is the top domino right now. If he stays with the Clippers for less – Clips had to love the Arenas news – then Golden State is going to go after Maggette with more than the full MLE, which will keep him out of Boston’s or San Antonio’s hands, which is great for the Lakers.

So Lakers fans need to root for Brand to stay with the Clippers, who would still be less of a threat to the Lakers than the Celtics or Spurs with Maggette. The only problem then is the Boston might concede and give Posey the full MLE and cut strings with House and Allen, who are in limbo right now and counting on part of Boston’s MLE. Hopefully, the Celtics will blink and the Lakers will get Posey.

Tom

testing

i like lamar as a person and a teammate. if this was a place like memphis or miami last yr, his place in the lineup would be secured. however, THIS IS THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS. now think of this, would jerry buss, jackson, and kobe want someone makin $14mill on the bench? i think the lakers cant win with lamar. everyone says bynum is the answer, he is important, not the whole answer. when elton resigns with the clipps, he'll be traded to the lakers for walton and lamar. if anyone says this would be a bad move, 2 words 4 u, elgin baylor. he is the vp of player operations with the clips. it seems like the celtics have a good chance to