SonnyB

How loud would the protests from Seattle fans be if the NBA left LA? Shouts of joy maybe?

Personally, I hate that the Supersonics are leaving Seattle but it's an old story.

There's a good documentary running on HBO or some pay channel about the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn. The capitalist pig owner does battle with the meglo-maniacal city official and the fans lose. It's interesting because from today's perspective, although everyone's motives were suspect, when the smoke cleared, it probably worked out for the best.

There is a bright side to a franchise in Okey City. Sacramento is no longer the cow-town of the NBA.
What are y'all gonna do with all those cow bells?

>>>Oft injured Baron Davis just accepted a $65M 5-year deal
>>>from the Clippers despite a horrendous injury and attitude
>>>history.

Not quite, but almost.

All-star Baron Davis who has led his team to a first round playoff
victory over a superior and heavily favored team just got a 65
million dollar deal. Baron Davis has proven his worth in the
league many times over. There is no question of potential, he
has shown what he is capable of, and shown that he is one
of the top 4 or 5 players in the league at his position. Bynum
has not yet done that.

Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:31 PM

[I disagree as many have said AB is among the top 3 centers in the league. And if he had been given more pt by PJ instead of Kwame he probably would have been an all star this year except for the injury.]

Long Time,

The battle goes on. Just curious. Who from your list of 19 players with max contracts would you trade Andrew Bynum for? I wouldn’t trade him for any of these players, even including Kobe. Most bloggers would trade Drew for Kobe, KG, or LeBron. Most of these 19 guys do not have the potential that Drew does. Just my opinion, of course.

Joe Johnson – No
Kevin Garnett – No, too old.
Paul Pierce – No
LeBron James – No
Jason Kidd – No
Dirk Nowitzki – No
Carmelo Anthony – No
Allen Iverson – No
Baron Davis – No
Tracy McGrady – No
Jermaine O'Neal – No
Elton Brand – No
Kobe Bryant – No, too old.
Shawn Marion – No
Dwyane Wade – No
Michael Redd – No
Stephon Marbury – No
Tim Duncan – No, too old.
Chris Bosh – No

Tom

Using the logic..."they got to feed their families"...

Why would Kobe take a paycut? He's got a family to feed too!

Go Lakers!

>>>if he is slighted he may wait another year and get offered more $$$ with signing
>>>team not having to lose players. That would make him be in the same boat as
>>>Baron Davis. Get the point now? Do you want to risk that? This scenario is not
>>>fallacy as it could happen.

Okay, so let me get this straight.

Let's say the Lakers offer Bynum a contract like I suggested this summer.

You're saying that he'll be offended that the Lakers are not offering to pay him enough
and thus he carry that resentment to next summer and regardless of what the
Lakers offer him then, he will not go out and get a max offer (which clearly every team
with cap space will offer), but instead will accept only the Lakers 1-year tender and
then will become an unrestricted free agent in 2010 so that he can play for any
other team than those cheapskate disrespectful Lakers.

Do I have that about right? Am I exaggerating your position?

So because Bynum wants to make more money (i.e. 55 with a chance to make 80
isn't enough for him), he will ignore whatever the Lakers offer him next summer,
even if it is a maximum contract, and only accept the 1-year tender so that he can
show the Lakers who's boss by leaving for any other team in 2010.

He would give up millions of dollars, and possibly a max offer next summer just
to show the Lakers that they shouldn't have lowballed him with a contract that
required him to actually perform to get paid. How DARE they!

I suppose it's possible, but I just can't see it happening.

Even if Bynum thinks 55 mil is a lowball offer (which it isn't given performace to
date), I'm guessing his response would be to go out and SHOW the Lakers what
he's worth, after which he would get that big payday.

Dwight Howard...max extension.

Chris Paul...max extension (still in the works)

Lebron James...max extension.

What's similar about these players? They've all made the all-star team and are undoubtedly the anchor of their current teams.

Drew?

Go Lakers!

Posted by: Faith | July 03, 2008 at 05:58 PM

You also forgot not coached or developed by PJ.

LakerTom,
OK.

justalakerfan

What if a players knee won't let him play at 100% and he hobbles around on the court for five years, not helping his team much, while getting the Max contract?

Insurance won't cover that.

But if he's able to play, even a little, you can't trade him, he just takes up space on the bench, while the team is stuck with no room below the cap and paying lux penalties.

Just using that as an example that risks are real and insurance doesn't cover everything.

JLF,

>>>I see you still like statistics to prove a point.
>>>Since you like to look them up try this one. What was the price of
>>>gasoline when each player on that list signed their contract? Just curious.

So I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that because gas is twice as expensive now
as when LeBron signed his contract that Andrew should be offered more money than
LeBron. Did I get that right?

In fact, gas is twice as expensive. Should Bynum be paid twice as much as LeBron?

LakerTom stated that there were 50 people with max contracts. If I'm not mistaken,
his point was that teams frequently offer full max contracts to players, it's the standard
so we should offer Bynum the standard and if we offer him less than the standard
then we're insulting him.

My point is that it's not the standard. 19 players out of over 400 in the league have
max contracts. And every one of them at least made ONE All-Star game before
getting their max offers. Most of them had made it several times before they got
their max contract offers.

Bynum just isn't in that tier of player yet. Bynum is in the tier of players that are
definitely going to be quality starters in the league, that might make the All-Star
game, and have a remote chance of being a hall-of-famer. If Bynum were to average
20 and 10 next season, make the All-Star team, and perform well in a long playoff run
for the Lakers, THEN he would show that he is worth a max contract.

JLF,

>>>Quite easily. You take out Llyod's of London insurance out on AB's knees

That covers the potential for injury. But it doesn't cover the potential that AB is already
close to his ceiling and that you will pay him 80 million over the next 6 years to play
in 55 games a year and average 15 and 10. Lamar averages 15 and 10. Is he worth
a max contract?

Edwin,

I am an accountant by trade and let me tell you that the Lakers probably had to work hard to get their income down to $31M last year. Sports franchises make their real money in the appreciation of the franchise, not in their “operating profit.”

It would be interesting to learn how much more revenue and income the Lakers made this year with 20 playoff games including the NBA Finals. Or how much more revenue and income they will make next year in merchandising sales due to the team’s success.

The additional revenue from 10 playoff home games @ $100 X 20,000 tickets is $20M in extra revenue just from playoff ticket sales, not counting concession and other sales. I do not know whether they also get a share of road ticket sales but winning jacks up the value of the franchise and that is where Buss gets his big payday.

Bottom line, I really don’t think we need to worry about the Lakers financial situation. I am sure Jerry has his finger on every penny spent but he is smart enough to understand that you spend money to make money in today’s entertainment business.

Tom

One more max contract. Chris Paul just got a 4-year maximum contract from New Orleans.

Now there are 20 of them in the NBA.

We are talking in circles, as is usually the case.

Sonnybelfast is a troll.

What about the Sonics are we supposed to say Sonny? Are we supposed to cry for them? We can lament the wrongness of what moving that team is, but is there anything to debate now that it's done? It's always sucked. I was really pissed when the Raiders left LA, but whatever. Much like the team that's leaving for OKC, didn't the Sacramento Kings come from Kansas City? Do you lament that fact on a daily basis? Maybe you're still crying over the spilt milk of past losses.

So we talk about Lakers players, on a Lakers blog, and somehow that makes us shallow and terrible people?

You're a joke dude. Thanks for posting the links. Now back to your funny little world.

Fatty's comment of the day. And the winner is, Gilbert Arenas.

Instead of taking 20.8 million per year, Arenas agreed to take only 18.5 so Washington will have the extra money it needs to build a Title team

Arenas told Ivan Carter of the Washington Post that he took less money so that the Wizards would have some payroll available to add more talent in the future. "We have another room to add a piece," Arenas told Carter. "There is a window of opportunity open for us. Adding key pieces leads to championships and that's what we all want."

Let's see, Who can we get for 2.3 million that will put the Wizzards over the top?

Speaking of the Beast. Finally good news about AB!

Be sure and click the link. I get .50 for each view.

http://tinyurl.com/6b86ap

O.k first of all, I am really not so sure that Andrew will not sign for less then a max deal. Of course his agent is going to start at the max, its his job to try and get as much as possible. But Andrew is a differnt case then most 3rd year players because he was so yong when he was drafted. Cris Paul is 23 and Deron Williams is 24, both drafted in Andrews class. At 20 what do the Lakers do? He showed great promise and was already one of the top 4 or 5 centers in the league, especially since there are very few star centers. Andrew out played most of the centers he faced and even held his own against Howard. So do you offer him 9 or 10 mil? Then next year he plays for the qualifing offer and is a unristricted free agent at 22!!! Imagine if he continues to improve over that period. Can you imagine what a guy 7 feet and probably 300 pounds by then will bring, at 22? Oh yes if he plays even a little better then he was playing before the injury, he will definetly be an all star before he reaches 22. His potential payday would make his max this year a bargin. Its a big roll of the dice either way, but unless there is major injuries I feel he would be worth it.

MH

Faith,

I never knew you were a Drew hater!

lol j/k

Sonny B - you're right. It's a shame about Seattle and I feel for their fans. Generally speaking, I'm against franchises leaving... unless the Knicks were to move to Fargo or Anchorage. That would be kind of amusing to me. Or maybe Reno. The Reno Knicks. Has a certain ring to it.

What's going on with the Kings apart from Artest? Are you glad to have Beno signed? Any FA's on your wish list?

To the Lamar/Luke/Vladimir/Pau defenders:
go to klac.com
Click on demand
Click KLAC shows
Click Rick Fox
And listen to him explain why the Lakers did not beat the Celtics and why he feels the Lakers may never win a championship.
Rick Fox is brutally honest dude.
I wish every Laker (and Laker coach) listen to that podcast.
And every Laker blogger needs to put down their pom poms and listen to Rick Fox speak the truth.
The truth will set you free.

Kobe would be giving up almost $25M in salary for the 2010/11 season but could sign a new $140M 7-year contract for the Lakers for $20M per year, saving them $5M a year in salary for the next 7 years and guaranteeing that Kobe would be a Laker for Life. Since that is what Shaq did for Riley in Miami, I have no doubt that Kobe would be receptive to doing the same for the Lakers.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 06:47 PM

I wouldn't be too sure. Why would Kobe do this when all the leverage is on Kobe's side? This is a business for all parties involved.

Over 300 posts on this thread...I'm safe down here. Nobody in their right mind would follow this thing all the way to the bottom...

Okay, my turn. To weigh in:
There seems to be a spirited debate ongoing regarding the future greatness of AB and what his present value should be. My two cents - sometimes, very very early in careers, you catch a glimpse of something telling. A single play, lost in the myriad of plays and misplays that make up a regular season game, that whispers "greatness."

Kobe made one of these during his rookie year. Lakers at Denver, 8pt lead with 10 to play in the fourth, and Del had the rook on the floor. He was being guarded by Bryant Stith - who at the time was an established veteran with a defensive reputation (think of Posey). No way the 18 year old high-school rook posts Stith 19 feet out on the wing, iso's with his back to the rim, does a Jordanesque shake to the baseline, lifts and drains a 20ft fade, without using his dribble. It was ONE BASKET, 2pts, no-biggie, except that in that moment I knew that this kid was FREAKIN' EXCEPTIONAL! History then cruised along to prove me right...

When Mike Tyson knocked out Marvis Frazier (son of Smokin' Joe) in the first round - on ABC's Wide World of Sports, no less! I knew that that 18yr old kid was destined to rule the boxing world one day.

On Christmas a couple years ago, when Wade took the ball on the left wing, spun baseline, a threw in (yes, IN, not UP, because that implies wishing...) a running left handed bank shot from about 14ft - because that was the ONLY shot he could take from his position that had any chance of going in...one basket, 2pts, but one that spoke volumes about his game. I knew that it was just a matter of time before he won his ring...

See, the great ones drop these little clues, these portents, if you will, that, while the rings are being passed out and the banner is being raised to the rafters, you think back on that moment and say to yourself: "ah-ha! I KNEW it!"

Bynum made one of these plays during this past season: on the road, at New Orleans, posted mano-e-mano against Tyson Chandler (top 5 post defender), a guy big enough and savy enough to take away ANYBODY's primary move. Chandler held his ground, maintained his leverage, played the possession as well as any human being on earth possibly could. All Drew did was dribble once to feel the contact on his left shoulder, plant his right foot square to the baseline, and drop a Left Handed jump hook that swished clean from 12FEET!

Many a good player will throw up an off-handed shot, hoping to get lucky and to show their adversary a different look. Andrew didn't throw his shot 'up.' He threw it in, exactly as he expected himself to, and then ran down the floor to play defense, unfazed by the enormity of what he had done: that shot was indefensible. Once a player can establish the indefensible shot, then the opponent becomes irrelevent to the outcome.

That, my fellow bloggers, is the defintion of greatness.

I thought he would be pretty good, based on physical tools.

But once I saw him make that one mundane 2pt basket that nobody will remember years later, I knew...

It's just a matter of time until he wins it all.

Long Time,

Well, the blog knows now how to keep the post count up. Get the two of us into a debate. LOL. Good discussion that other bloggers might look at to learn how to fight for your position without denigrating your fellow blogger.

>>>>>“And what's more, you keep ignoring my suggestion that the
>>>>>contract include incentives that could boost it to a full max
>>>>>contract if Bynum's progress met the standards you are all
>>>>>expecting of him.

Sorry but I have to do some work during the day and I am having a hard time keeping up with you. I feel like the 1-man law firm that just got sued by Microsoft’s legion of lawyers. My response is I have no problems with incentives but you won’t be able to sell Bynum’s agent on that approach other than for spiff amounts. You also have a problem in that any reasonable incentives will be included in the salary figure for Drew per the salary cap. Here is the link that explains when incentives are included or excluded

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#61

Listen, we both agree that the Lakers need to sign Drew to an extension this summer. If you check the CBA stuff I posted earlier about how extensions work for first round picks on a rookie scale contract, you will see that if we do not sign him to an extension by October 31, 2008, Drew can just play out the last year of his contract and the year required by our tendering him a qualifying offer and he would be a free agent. That is something that I hope no Lakers fan wishes to happen.

Once we can agree that it would be foolish for the Lakers NOT to sign Drew to an extension, then the only issue we really have is how much he should be paid. If you honestly look at the salaries being paid in the NBA today, I think you would realize that $55M is really not a big contract. If Mitch could get Drew and his agent to agree to that, it would be as big a miracle as the deal he pulled off for Pau. In the end, Drew will agree to an extension this summer and will lead us to the championship next year. Then we will finally be in agreement. LOL. Thanks for engaging discussion, Long Time. You are a most worthy, articulate, and intelligent blogger.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 07:04 PM
----------------------------------------------
Laker Tom

I completely agree and especially not one insult from anyone. Excellant!

JLF,

>>>I see you still like statistics to prove a point.
>>>Since you like to look them up try this one. What was the price of
>>>gasoline when each player on that list signed their contract? Just curious.

So I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that because gas is twice as expensive now
as when LeBron signed his contract that Andrew should be offered more money than
LeBron. Did I get that right?

In fact, gas is twice as expensive. Should Bynum be paid twice as much as LeBron?

[Yes and no. The point is that prices have escallated and not sure just 2X. Not that you pay AB twice as much as LeBron. Different players and positions. The point is the value of a commodity has risen and costs more than before.]

LakerTom stated that there were 50 people with max contracts. If I'm not mistaken,
his point was that teams frequently offer full max contracts to players, it's the standard
so we should offer Bynum the standard and if we offer him less than the standard
then we're insulting him.

My point is that it's not the standard. 19 players out of over 400 in the league have
max contracts. And every one of them at least made ONE All-Star game before
getting their max offers. Most of them had made it several times before they got
their max contract offers.

[ Not the point. So what is my reply. There were no black professional baseball players in MLB until Jackie Robinson. So should the Dodgers have said we should not sign him until someone else signs a Black player? Point is who cares what those guys did before getting max contract or long term contract. Do you pay what he is worth. Remember now that Drew was held up by PJ and behind Kwame and criticised after each improvement and still posted the numbers he did in limited play time. I would say he is worth it.]

Bynum just isn't in that tier of player yet. Bynum is in the tier of players that are
definitely going to be quality starters in the league, that might make the All-Star
game, and have a remote chance of being a hall-of-famer. If Bynum were to average
20 and 10 next season, make the All-Star team, and perform well in a long playoff run
for the Lakers, THEN he would show that he is worth a max contract.

[heck why stop there? He should also lead the league in rebounds, blocks, steals and three point percentage, free throw percentage, time played and then he MIGHT qualify for max contract. Get real my friend.]

Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 07:43 PM

Kobe would be giving up almost $25M in salary for the 2010/11 season but could sign a new $140M 7-year contract for the Lakers for $20M per year, saving them $5M a year in salary for the next 7 years and guaranteeing that Kobe would be a Laker for Life. Since that is what Shaq did for Riley in Miami, I have no doubt that Kobe would be receptive to doing the same for the Lakers.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 06:47 PM

I wouldn't be too sure. Why would Kobe do this when all the leverage is on Kobe's side? This is a business for all parties involved.

Posted by: Benjamin | July 03, 2008 at 11:06 PM
------------------------------------------
For the same reason G. Arenas signed for less. Kobe knows the team is handicaped by cap issues so to get even better players to play with then they need to be paid. Yes it is business.

Using the logic..."they got to feed their families"...

Why would Kobe take a paycut? He's got a family to feed too!

Go Lakers!

Posted by: Faith | July 03, 2008 at 07:21 PM

Diffent spots in there lives. Kobe has all the financial security he needs for his family and not just feeding. He can afford roof over their heads and education for his daughters etc.

AB in this point in his life has no family security. Different motivation than Kobe.