Report Card - Vlad Radmanovic
The good news about Vladimir Radmanovic's 2008? It was better than 2007. Granted, without landing in the slammer, getting injured in a freak bull-riding mishap, or just retiring at 27, last year was almost impossible not to improve upon. But still, Vlad was better, and not just compared against a season lost to a snowboarding accident and playoff inactivity. He established a career-high FG% (45%) and was within a personal top-three for 3-PT%, FT% and assists. But those marks hardly establish this year as a great one for Vlad. Not really even a good one. Much remained missing during Vlad's season, continuing a perpetual cycle of wondering what it'll take for Radmanovic to discover that extra gear and finally bust out at a level that many still feel he's capable of.
Among the coaching staff, Vlad Radmanovic is considered an enigma of sorts. By his own admission, he's never been as consistent as preferred. Phil Jackson has tried (and failed) to arrange chats with a sports psychologist, the middle ground apparently being tweaks through the media. But it's all done with the goal of discovering a pathway towards yet to be unlocked potential. Maybe a formula can be discovered. I'm neither a motivational speaker nor a fortune teller. But unlike Lamar Odom, whom I always knew could bust out when used in a different role, I think the issue with Vlad is much simpler: Dude is who he is. BK and I have a running observation that Radmanovic is the NBA's biggest "all or nothing" player. And while that take is often prompted by this shooting specialist launching one bairballed three per game almost like clockwork, in some ways, I think it sums up the essence of Vlad. When his hand is hot, he can bury an opponent and will sometimes add contributions beyond the expected. When the mitt goes cold, he typically brings little to the table. Thus, if you count on either "big" or "invisible/shaky" with no middle ground, the "Mystery of Radmanovic" is solved.
That may sound harsh, but the numbers pretty much support it. Vlad's per-48 stats place him among the least productive Lakers when it comes to rebounding, assists, shot blocking, or defending without fouling and mostly middle of the road everywhere else unless it involved shooting. Throw in his occasionally solid (most memorably against 'Melo in the first round) but mostly turnstile defense (most memorably against just about everyone else he guarded) and a penchant for odd decisions and it's no mystery why he rode the fourth quarter pine more than any starter. But having said all that, he'll occasionally come through with a huge game. As a player, Radmanovic mirrors himself off the court. He's got a quirky personality (I mean that in a good way) and things quirky are often tough to pin down. Or very easy, depending on how you view his particular situation.
In any event, I'm counting on more of the same from Vlad next season, although that could lead to one possible difference. As I predicted with Luke Walton, unless Vlad steps up his game, I picture him losing a fair amount of PT to Trevor Ariza. Throw in the amount of time Kobe (and perhaps now Odom) spends at the 3, those minutes drop even further. Obviously, bigger chunks of play will come when the Lakers need him at PF or some outside shooting. But all in all, without a sea change, I think Vlad may end up somewhere between 10-12th in the rotation. Ball's in his court, so to speak.
Final Grade: C-
AK
Laker Kev,
"The Celtics did make an offer to Posey that was far less than the full boat median exception he has been offered from other teams, leaving Posey feeling unwanted. Add the Maggette commentary and Posey wants to talk with other teams. Sources close to the situation contend James Posey would love to be a Laker and that the Lakers are willing to go the full exception to land him."
This is exactly why you have to be very careful how you negotiate with Andrew Bynum regarding his extension. The huge ego it requires to be an NBA player and the lavish lifestyle they enjoy leaves these guys overly sensitive to being disrespected in any way. Here you have a bench player essentially turning his back on the current NBA champ because he felt they dissed him with their offer. We saw the same thing with Kobe.
We need to negotiate very carefully with Drew, always understanding that we are dealing with a franchise player. We need to pay him what he is worth on the open market less a small discount because we are doing the extension early and because Drew wants to be here. That will probably mean a $70M rather than an $80M 5-year deal. But the key is that Drew will then be locked up for next year plus 5 more years in purple and gold.
The absolute worst strategy is to force him to become a restricted free agent and then match the deal. That could very easily lead to Drew turning down any contract and instead accepting the qualifying offer and becoming a unrestricted free agent, which would be a disastrous outcome for the Lakers.
Fortunately, I am confident that the Lakers understand the situation perfectly and will make a fair offer to Drew for an extension. Once Drew reports to camp and shows that his knee is OK, expect the extension to be put to bed before the start of the season.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 03:11 PM
LakerTom,
Thanks for your reply. We have a difference of opinion. It's only slight. And it'd be okay even if it were a bigger difference of opinion.
I agree with you that today's NBA players do require sensitive handling. Contracts are very competitive. Players have high expectations and are sensitive. I wouldn't say they have huge egos if they're easily offended. I'd say they have egos that are vulnerable. That's splitting hairs a bit though. The main point is that you do have to be careful with guys in the NBA today.
Thus far we don't even have a hint of a warning sign there are any issues. Bynum showed no signs of being insulted by Kobe saying ship him out (for likely Hall-of-Famer Jason Kidd). By all accounts our team has good chemistry. We're good! We have diplomatic capital to spend. We have big time winners in PJ and KB24 to deal with any unforseen issues.
You have your prediction and that's cool. My prediction is that we keep Bynum and even if we don't sign him to an extension before this season he will not be offended and will be happy to be a Laker (and hopefully stay healthy, play well, and bring us many championships, taking over for Kobe in 7 years or so as the more important Laker player).
I predict we offer Bynum something like 7-10 M (for 3-5 years) if he wants a deal now. Otherwise, both parties wait until the regular season starts
If I'm wrong, first pitcher is on me.
The future may yet prove your prediction (which some find bold) correct.
That's what makes the offseason so interesting!
Posted by: Benjamin | July 03, 2008 at 03:24 PM
LakerTom,
You must get ahold of yourself man. You're entirely too optimistic. You aren't a businessman, are you? How do the Lakers hedge their risks?
It needs more proof, plain and simple.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 03, 2008 at 03:40 PM
We have to pay the players based on their values in the market.
By July, 2009, Dr. Jerry Buss at age 86 in a wheel chair will be with Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak and ask to have a meeting with Laker players on the state of the franchise.
He started it:
Good Morning for your team's achievement this year. We lost the Finals in Game 7 but we won the hearts of our fans. The Celtics did not win their conference.
I arranged this meeting to expalin our contractual obligation to each player based on your market value and specifications of the contract:
1. Kobe $ 23.0 - under Player Option, the heart of the franchise
2. Bynum 16.0 - Agent's demands, the roof of the team
3. Pau 16.4 - Contractual Obligation, our next big man
4. Lamar - 14.5 - Lakers won game b/c of you
5. Luke - 4.8 - You don't deserve it but contractual obligation
6. Vlad - 6.4 - You increased your shooting and rebound percentage by 1%, no cure on your defensive flaws
7. Fisher - 5.0 - this could be your last year
8. Ariza -4.0 - just right for given talent
9. Farmar 1.9 - You will making decision soon on long term
10 Sasha 5.8 - I matched the MLE offers last year
11 Ronny 4.0 - You sacrificed your true worth just to be with purple and gold
12. Mbenga - 1.0 - thanks for your service and represent voice of Africa
13. Posey -5.8 - the 2nd year of our MLE
14 Sun Yue - 0.8 - Lakers is known in China b/c of you
15 Joe Crawford -0.8 thanks for playing well as 2nd in the rookie of the year
16. Chris MIhm 2.5 - due for long term contract
Total Payroll - $ 112.7
I made money in 07 at $ 31 and Lakers played in Finals
I made a little money in 08 $ 25 and Lakers are back-to-back to the Finals Now let us talk business, tell how can I all afford you. Make your own decision how to reduce your pay to accommodate the others.
Without your help I can close shop and sell the franchise at $ 700M. Guys, I want to confess that I cannot meet the payroll of $ 112M and pay luxury taxes amounting 35M. The only way I can meet the obligation is die today, collect from my life insurance just to cover one quarter of Lakers payroll. Let's continue our journey but please help me.
Now, meet Mitch individually and discuss your particulars.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 03, 2008 at 03:43 PM
Fatty,
Thanks for the heads up!! I'll be sure to watch it.
I don't doubt the honor and pride these athletes feel in representing their country. They are born, raised and contribute to the country they are representing. Still, there is lots to be said about foreign born athletes representing countries that they don't live in or weren't born in.
I doubt that it has anything to do with national pride. I know for sure that Kaman is not the only athlete doing that, as I happen to personally know others who have done the same. Corporate sponsorships rule the Olympics!! Why wasn't the 100th Anniversary of the Olympics held in Greece where it originated? Our friends at Coca Cola wanted it in Atlanta!! There is definitely an incentive for both the athlete and the country and like I said, this is the world we live in.
Posted by: JSNV | July 03, 2008 at 03:50 PM
Aloha, Michael,
Thanks for chiming on the Bynum contract issue. Fortunately, I think Mitch and the Lakers will handle the situation tactfully. I suspect that, rather than countering Drew’s agent with a lowball bid that could be construed as disrespectful, the Lakers will start out at a max contract as Drew’s acknowledged market value and then work to get a fair discount for giving Drew the security of the contract a year early as well as a loyalty discount to help the team be able to keep the current roster essentially intact. This way there is no misunderstanding as to how valuable Drew is or what his market value is. Instead, we acknowledge that and work to make the deal a good decision for the team.
I proposed months ago that we will end up doing the same with Kobe, having him opt out early to sign a long term contract for less money per year to help keep the team intact. And if Lamar plays as well early next year as he did late this year, that would be the route to take with working out an extension for him also. While it is probably unrealistic to think that an NBA player like Maggette would sign for the MLE, I think that the key players on the Lakers would buy into the concept of everybody sacrificing a little to help the team keep the roster intact. That’s the benefit of competing for the championship.
The big benefit in both situations is to not go into a season where the future of your franchise players – and the Lakers are blessed to have two of them – is a risk because they could become a free agent at the end of the year. That is why we need to sign Drew and possibly even Kobe to extensions this summer. Then we can really enjoy 2009 knowing that we have locked up our two key stars for the next half decade.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 03:52 PM
Could Sasha be a casualty to the Lakers with BD opting out from GS?
If Brand stays with the Clippers, the Warriors will be in the hunt for players and lots of money to spend.
They want to re-sign Ellis, but may have money for Maggette and others including Sasha. Perhaps enough to pay him more than the Lakers would match.
Wouldn't Sasha be a nice fit for Nelson's system?
When Brand agrees to sign, he seems to be holding up FA stuff. Things may start to happen fast.
Posted by: Fatty | July 03, 2008 at 03:57 PM
Hey “Let’s Go C’s!” -- I’ve noticed you stuck around this blog until now and relentlessly antagonizing us Lakers fans here with your hatred filled messages. So, I took upon my self to read all your post here and maybe compile a profile of you. Yes it is a waste of time, but I thought to my self, maybe this guy is just trying to reach out. Maybe behind all of his non-sense garbage post here there’s a hidden message, a cryptic message, a message about his past and a desperate call for help.
So, here it is, and maybe some of the guys here can help fill in the blanks for missing characters to get a better view of your past.
So, anyway, below are the key words and passages I picked up unscrambling your stupid posts:
1. B_ST_RD since birth
2. AB_SED since young age
3. ABUSED by his biological father (I was able to figure this one out)
4. A_USE_ by his surrogate father
5. A_ _ _ _ D by his mother’s favorite customer
6. BULLI_D by Erkel in grade school
7. ABUSED by his stepsister’s retarded boyfriend (this one is easy!)
Also, I am planning a fundraising event so we can get you a proper help. A good psychiatrist maybe to get you back on track?
We will also have a “Please give this guy a hug day” as a tribute for you, and feel free to add your 2 cents if any of the above words hit a nerve, so at least we know we are getting close.
***SCROLL PAST THE TROLL***
Posted by: GameFaceON | July 03, 2008 at 04:01 PM
LakerTom,
>>>the Lakers are going to sign Drew to near-max deal before
>>>next season begins ...And they will overpay rather than
>>>risk creating ill will or bad feelings that could come back to
>>>haunt them.
hmm.
Vlade - full MLE
Luke - 30 million for 6 years
You may be right.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:06 PM
LakerTom,
>>>Long Time’s problem is that he does not think that
>>>Andrew deserves a max contract because the market
>>>is inflated. In his mind, only Kareem and Kobe would be
>>>paid max salaries. Wake up, Long Time, There are
>>>probably 50 players in the NBA right now who received
>>>max contracts.
There are currently 19. Here are their names:
Joe Johnson
Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
LeBron James
Jason Kidd
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Allen Iverson
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Jermaine O'Neal
Elton Brand
Kobe Bryant
Shawn Marion
Dwyane Wade
Michael Redd
Stephon Marbury
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Almost every player on that list had made the All-Star team
(some several times) before they ever got a max contract
offer.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:16 PM
>>>You need to be more realistic about current salaries in the NBA,
You think there are 50 and some of them are marginal players.
There are 19, and only 1 (Stephon Marbury) is a marginal player.
Who needs to be realistic?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:19 PM
passionate Lakers fan,
"The Lakers will never win a championship with:
Lamar/Luke/Vladimir.
Never."
They were awfully close, weren't they? And the team was missing their starting center, and third best player. You need to relax, I guess you're too passionate.
Posted by: laker hopeful | July 03, 2008 at 04:22 PM
JALF
>>>Kobe has consoistantly been injured in his career and
>>>played through it. So by your logic we should not have
>>>given Kobe big $$$ because he was injury prone?
1. Kobe played through it. I didn't see Bynum on the floor for the
finals when the team needed him
[Apples and oranges . You missed the point again. The point was and is that Kobe is injury prone and has been and continues to be by his aggressive way of playing. You did not see AB on the court when we needed him because he was injured and he did not have clearance from his doctors, team doctors and Laker management. Kobe did have all the clearances needed to play. So this is then AB's fault for being injured and excuse to not pay what he is worth?]
2. Kobe was already an All-Star and a 3rd team All-NBA by the
time the Lakers offered him his second contract. Bynum has
never been seriously considered for the All-Star game. If he'd
have stayed healthy this season, there probably would have
been some buzz for him as the backup center over Amare, and
he might even have gotten picked.
[Diffent times and methods. If you want to relive memory lane and how Kobe earned his second contract is irrelevant. Heck gas used to he a buck and change a gallon. different times now. Now factor in that there are very few real back to the basket centers left in the league and we have one of the few. Less real centers mean they are more valuable. So again see the point and leave the irrelevant history and statistics out of seeing the POINT. Have a good one .]
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 04:24 PM
Laker Tom,
James Posey career 3-point shooting: .351
Robert Horry career 3-point shooting: .341
Rick Fox career 3-point shooting: .349
Not much difference there.
And I agree that all three are/were hard-nosed defenders who
weren't afraid to take a cheap shot once in awhile.
My thinking was that Horry's more of a PF while Posey and
Fox are more SF/SG.
But on the other hand, you could use the reasoning that Posey
is the new "good luck charm of champions", like Horry has been.
6 of one and half dozen of another.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:27 PM
>>>Oft injured Baron Davis just accepted a $65M 5-year deal
>>>from the Clippers despite a horrendous injury and attitude
>>>history.
Not quite, but almost.
All-star Baron Davis who has led his team to a first round playoff
victory over a superior and heavily favored team just got a 65
million dollar deal. Baron Davis has proven his worth in the
league many times over. There is no question of potential, he
has shown what he is capable of, and shown that he is one
of the top 4 or 5 players in the league at his position. Bynum
has not yet done that.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:31 PM
LakerTom,
>>>Agent Zero has two offers for more than $100M.
Actually, the Warriors offer is reportedly more like $90M.
Gilbert Arenas has averaged 20 points, 5 assists, and a couple
of steals for his career. He has made the All-Star game 3 times. In the last two full seasons he played, he was among
the top 5 scorers in the league, top 10 in steals, and top 20
in assists. He has EARNED a max contract.
Bynum has made 0 All-Star games, never been top 5 in
any category. The closest he has come was last season when
he had the 7th highest field goal percentage in the league
and the 8th most blocks per game.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:49 PM
JALF,
>>>People can feel slighted. Think Baron Davis and the Warriors.
Baron Davis had an option to opt out. Bynum does not. If someone
offers more than the Lakers, then they can match it and still
keep Bynum. I don't think it will come to that, but if it does,
I'm almost certain the Lakers will match.
[Again you missed the point. The point is AB can wait until he is an unrestricted FA and play the market, sign for the most where ever and it may not be the Lakers as they have no matching offer to fall back on. You are stuck on $80 million which I think he would sign in a heart beat now maybe even $75 million. But next year the price may be even higher than that and the Lakers would have to match more money for what they would have if he was already signed. if he is slighted he may wait another year and get offered more $$$ with signing team not having to lose players. That would make him be in the same boat as Baron Davis. Get the point now? Do you want to risk that? This scenario is not fallacy as it could happen.]
The warriors lowballed Baron Davis. They wouldn't offer him
a contract for more than 2 years. The Lakers will not lowball
Andrew Bynum.
[What do you think the problem is then. Surely he would take $75-80 million to sign now. By not he would be lowballed as being reminded it is only business and then he can approch it that way too.]
And BTW, if Bynum's feelings get hurt, Mitch can remind him
that the team stood by him when Kobe wanted them to trade him
for Jason Kidd.
[ Yes and his agent can remind him that the Lakers did not do this because J Kidd was not worth it. But the Lakers offered him and LO for Garnett so the team really did not stand by him.]
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 04:53 PM
I would love to get Artest because of his defense and playmaking abilities. Also he gets along well with Kobe. I just don't see the Kings sending him our way. Now, if they can get Odom and his expiring contract in return, and at the same time lose Kenny Thomas's junk contract, then they may reconsider. But in case they arent willing to move artest to the Lakers, I think we should look into the following trade:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3251~617~1016~2027~70~510&teams=14~14~14~14~13~13&te=&cash=
Trade: VladRad, Luke, Lamar, Coby (Karl) to Miami for
Shawn Marion and Mark Blount.
This trade would net us our defensive, playmaking and rebounding oriented small forward while at the same time getting rid of Luke and VladRad. I actually like Luke and VladRad, but I just feel that they are too inconsistent. We could also get a serviceable big in return with Mark Blount in case Mihm doesn't resign.
What do you think?
dpk
Posted by: dpk | July 03, 2008 at 04:57 PM
JALF,
Bynum is definitely better than Olowokandi.
[ Agree completely]
But will he be as good as Shaq? Kareem? Wilt?
[IMHO he definitely will be better than Shaq.]
To this point he hasn't given me any reason to believe so. Those
players had all shown a much more dominating game (in college)
by his age. But then again, there are also players like Jermaine
O'Neal who have several "growing years" and then bloom into
a perennial All-star. And Bynum certainly has the potential to
do that.
[ In the case of Shaq he was and is lazy and I believe as he has shown me his work ethic and desire to improve. Barring injury and long carreer he can be up with KAJ and Wilt but that is a long way off, like a carrers length away. He will be better than J O'Neil imo.]
So far, Bynum's performance has put him in the category of "good
starting center" - with guys like Vlade Divac and Sam Perkins.
Not in the category of superstars like Kareem and Wilt and Shaq, or even in the category of "likely hall-of-famers" like
Jermaine O'Neal.
[See above]
I think that max contracts are reserved for those latter categories
of players. That's just my opinions. And you know what they
say about opinions...
[ agree on opinions ......like XXXXXXXXX every body has one.]
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 09:13 AM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 05:02 PM
One thing about Kupchack:
Let's not forget one important thing about Mitch. He has always seemed to make moves that flew way under the radar. His deals (for the most part) have come out of the blue. Obviously the Shaq trade was widely publicized. But when we traded Payton and whoever else to get Chris Mihm and whoever else, that came out of the blue. When Mitch traded Mo Evans and Brian Cook for Ariza, that was out of the blue. Also, we all know when we got Pau in exchange for butterfingers and Pau's stud bro, that was way out of the blue. So we dont know what level of activity there will be out of laker land this summer but based on history, we do know that the most unexpected trade can happen at anytime.
dpk
Posted by: dpk | July 03, 2008 at 05:02 PM
EXTEND DREW THIS SUMMER – OR LOSE HIM…
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
In reading the rules for teams giving extensions to players with rookie scale contracts such as Andrew Bynum, it appears that it is critical that the Lakers actually sign Andrew Bynum to an extension sometime between July 9, 2008 and October 31, 2008 if they want to keep him as a Laker. Here is the applicable rule per the NBA Salary Cap FAQs:
>>>>>Rookie scale contracts can be extended
>>>>>from the day following the July moratorium
>>>>>to the October 31 preceding the player's last option season
>>>>>provided the team had previously picked up the option for that season.
This seems to confirm that the Lakers only window to sign Drew to an extension is from July 9th to October 31st of this year. Otherwise, they cannot sign him to an extension.
So what happens if the Lakers do not sign Drew to an extension this summer?
(1) If the Lakers do NOT make a qualifying offer, which they would surely do, Drew would become a free agent at the end of next year, in which case the Lakers would be able to bid on him and offer one more year of money since we own his Bird rights.
(2) If the Lakers DO make a qualifying offer, Drew can agree to accept the qualifying offer and play out the final year of his contract and then become an unrestricted free agent, in which case the Lakers would be able to bid on him and offer one more year of money since we own his Bird rights.
(3) If the Lakers DO make a qualifying offer, Drew can also offer his services to other teams as a restricted free agent and solicit bids from other teams, which the Lakers would have the right to match, forcing Drew to stay as a Laker. I am not a salary cap expert by any means but if I read this correctly, the Lakers MUST agree to an extension this summer or they will TRULY risk losing Drew to free agency.
Unless I am wrong, which is entirely possible when it comes to the CBA, rookie scale players who are NOT signed to an extension in the summer before their 4th year can become unrestricted free agents just by accepting the qualifying offer and playing out their rookie contract.
In other words, if the Lakers do not sign Drew to an extension this summer, he then will have an option to play out next year and the following and become an unrestricted free agent regardless of what the Lakers want. If that is right, there is no way we don’t sign Drew to an extension before October 31st.
AK, can you check this out let us know if I am crazy or not? Thanks.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 05:02 PM
PLF
I take exception to your tirade. As I have said before it is ok to disagree but be civil. Well you crossed that threshold by calling everyone who does not agree with you an idiot.
Well I disagree with you and I am not an idiot.
I say only Luke Walton should go. He has only one role on team and that is to play bulky physical slow players like Harpring. He is outplayed by atheltic fast SFs.
Vlade spreads the floor , passes, shoots 3's and dives and drives to the basket. As for being soft was that not Vlade who was knocked down by Tyson Chandler got up and sprinted down floor and put TC on his arse? Did he not go face to face with Chandler? He is not soft.
He has talent which needs to be gromed and brought out like learning post moves from KAJ to improve his post up game.
LO has so much versatile talent it ain't funny. You need talented role players as you can't have a whole team of allstars. He brings a lot to the table.
Now only an idiot with only a legend in his own mind would not see that and call anyone who disagrees with him an idiot. You are entitled to your opinions no matter how idiotic they are. I thought you were a much better poster than that.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 08:23 AM
You are an idiot if you still believe in Vladimir and Lamar.
No sir you are the idiot and moron. You think you have some pious opinion so much valuable than anyone else. Well you don't so the sooner you get back on your meds the better. Take your passin to the crib and go night night.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 05:17 PM
"Pls remind me of who the MLB raining champs are?
Pls tell me who the reining NBA champs are?"
Why? do you have amnesia as well. That does explain you posting the same thing over and over. And the laughing thing, I’d get a medical opinion on that. You may have a tape worm.
Posted by: HmrHed | July 03, 2008 at 05:27 PM
>>>Long Time Lakers suggestion of 7 to 8 mil is what a decent
>>> bench big guy makes in the league.
There are 30 teams in the league. Name me 30 bench centers
who make contracts that average 7 to 8 million (even though I
was suggesting more than that).
No?
Name me 15?
No?
What I suggested was a contract STARTING at 55 million
for 6 years - a little over 9 million a year. Quick. How many
centers who have never made the all-star team make at
least 9 million a year?
Six:
Erick Dampier
Chris Kaman
Al Jefferson (PF?)
Eddy Curry
Samuel Dalembert
Raef LaFrentz
Here are all the centers in the league that earn 9 million or
more and have made the All-Star game:
Kevin Garnett (PF?)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Ben Wallace
Rasheed Wallace (PF?)
Yao Ming
Jermaine O'Neal (PF?)
Pau Gasol (PF?)
Tyson Chandler
Dwight Howard
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Of ALL those centers, there's only one, Raef LaFrentz who
is a backup. And there isn't a single backup center in the
league other than LaFrentz who makes as much as 7 million.
A deal of 55 million for 6 years (EVEN IGNORING all the incentive
bonuses I mentioned) would be paying Bynum in the same
range as most quality starting centers in the league. He
wouldn't be making as much as Tim Duncan and Dwight
Howard who had already shown their full potential when
they were offered contracts, but he would be well paid.
Thus I will reiterate, 55 million IS a large contract.
And what's more, you keep ignoring my suggestion that the
contract include incentives that could boost it to a full max
contract if Bynum's progress met the standards you are all
expecting of him.
If Bynum feels that he is someone who will perform like a
franchise player, then he should have no qualms about
accepting reasonable performance incentives in his
contract. I'm not proposing that he has to average 20 and 20
to get an extra million, I'm suggesting reasonable things like
these (which he can earn each season):
Plays in 75 or more of an 82 game season: +1 million
Averages more than 15 points for a season: + 1 million
Averages more than 10 rebounds for a season: + 1 million
Plays in at least 10 playoff games: +1 million
So in the first year, if he played the whole season plus 10
playoff games and averaged 15 and 10 (which I think he is
definitely capable of), he would make 11 million for the first
year of the contract. If he does it every season (which he
should), then that adds 24 million to the total, making it a 79 million dollar contract. Throw in one million bonus for
whatever and there you go - the 80 million you want to give
him.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 05:28 PM
I just want to say, this is an impressive debate you guys are having here on Bynum.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | July 03, 2008 at 05:40 PM
biggest laker fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm typing this cuz i love the lakers with all my heart!!
we need to trade vlad and luke's contracts for a solid backup center,..........i.e. for jason maxiel and ronnie will play the backup 4 ... so legit, so:
1fish backup1jordan
2 kobe 2sasha
3 odom 3trevor
4gasol 4ronnie
5drew 5maxiell
keep DJ just cuz of his size
coby cuz he knows tri 0ff
don't need ira
drop mihm!!!!!!!!!!
train JOE, and pick up davon jefferson
Posted by: AlexBleeds4LAKERS | July 03, 2008 at 05:48 PM
As of this posting, and apart from Edwins excellent commentary, comments on this board suggest that Laker fans cannot be concerned about Seattle fans and their fate, which was officially announced today.
What's up with that? It is not as though Seattle didn't have decades of great fan support.
I remember when it was suggested that LA (the monstrosity of urban heap that it is) would never be without an NFL football team and we all know how that worked out.
Somehow, I get the sense that you believe you are above the fray. Say it ain't so.
Sonnybelfast
Posted by: sonnybelfast | July 03, 2008 at 05:52 PM
Dwight Howard...max extension.
Chris Paul...max extension (still in the works)
Lebron James...max extension.
What's similar about these players? They've all made the all-star team and are undoubtedly the anchor of their current teams.
Drew?
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Faith | July 03, 2008 at 05:58 PM
LakerTom,
"Kobe, having him opt out early to sign a long term contract for less money per year to help keep the team intact"
THey can't do that; against the CBA.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 03, 2008 at 06:03 PM
JALF,
>>>Yes when he is restricted FA his contract can be
>>>matched. But if he waits one more year he is
>>>unrestricted FA and can walk for free.
There's a subtle logical fallacy in that.
If Bynum refuses to accept a huge offer (say 55 million over 6
years, with incentives that can take it up to 80) and is insulted
by that offer, then he's all about the benjamins. He doesn't really
care about what team he plays for. He cares about money.
[Not really. He cares about his family first as he should. Consider the advice Kobe gave Sasha. Do whats best for you. I want you to stay for selfish reasons (because he is good player) but he has to do what is best for him. And Sasha really wants to stay but has said he wants to play where he is wanted. That respect thing again]
But if he really only cares about "the most money", then taking
a one year qualifying offer to opt out actually makes him LESS
money overall. Yes, his contract the year after that MIGHT
be bigger (and it might not, depending on how much money
teams have to spend.
[ Based on his potential, size and true back to basket center, teams will clear cap space to sign him if he is unrestricted FA.]
I don't think we're that far apart in our thinking actually.
We both think the Lakers should make Bynum an offer. All
we disagree on is what is a fair amount to offer him right now.
[I would agree with this assessment]
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:16 PM
Laker Tom
I figured AK is munching down some dinner, so I thought I would post the rules on a qualifying offer. A player has till March 1st to accept a qualifying offer.(so Sasha couldn't accept his offer and play it out for 1 year and be a FA)
RealGM: Coon's CBA
To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has four options:
* He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
* He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
* He can sign an offer sheet with another team, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
* He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
So then, when AB's agent is giving the old ' give him the max or else' he's probably talking about accepting the qualifying offer for AB and becoming a FA. That's why I agree with Faith's assessment that the Agent is a jerk. Its way to soon to be belligerent. Negotiations should be, both parties respectfully coming to an agreement. The Agent is making the dollars THE thing, and its much more than just money. Shaq like threats now from AB's side won't help.
Posted by: Fatty | July 03, 2008 at 06:20 PM
YOU GUYS ARE TALKING FROM YOUR REAR:
TRADE BYNUM AS HE IS DURABLE
I will give Andrew Bynum an extension before I give any Laker player and Coaching staff another extension. BYNUM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASSET/PLAYER THE LAKERS HAS RIGHT NOW. Period!
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 02, 2008 at 09:22 PM
Completely agree and with the subsequent posts regarding the value of AB.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 08:39 AM
Posted by: TRADER JOE | July 03, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Speaking about talking through rear. Did you say something or was that a fart coming out of your mouth?
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:20 PM
Before it was trade him he is a project with a high potential but we want to win it all now. He may turn out to be another Olowacadi (SP). And other things were said like being lazy etc (I am glad FO did not go for that BS).
Now it is a variation of AB has not shown enough and is injury prone. Don't give him huge contract, let him earn it. (Hope FO sees through that BS too).
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 08:33 AM
Obviously Bynum is nothing like Olowakandi. He's not a bust. His injury, while not career-ending, could change his on court performance. That's important and we need to see what happens. His recovery has been less than wonderful. We need to see how it affects his physical ability on court as well as his confidence.
[ agreed]
Phil Jackson himself suggested Bynum was lazy and the reason for his elevated play this season was the potential for a big payday.
[PJ is an idiot who slowed AB’s improvement by playing Kwame over him. Also AB showed he ws not lazy so PJ was wrong again. Oops PJ does not make mistakes he has 9 rings.]
What's wrong with the idea of a player earning a huge payday? You think we should just give him 25 percent of the salary cap based on what we've seen? If Bynum only ended up being as good as Zadrunus Ilgauskus is now we'd end up looking (and being) pretty stupid for doing that, right?
[Nothing, I think he shows he deserves it for his work ethic and if we get over the injury thing meaning all sign off he is ok then yes sign him]
Posted by: | July 03, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:24 PM
JustaLakerFan,
Props on your excellent rebuttal to Long Time. The Lakers definitely do not want to do anything that Drew or his camp might take as an insult or affront. You did a great job of drawing attention to that. Going into any negotiation loaded for bear as Long Time would do is a sure fire way of creating ill will. Long Time’s problem is that he does not think that Andrew deserves a max contract because the market is inflated. In his mind, only Kareem and Kobe would be paid max salaries. Wake up, Long Time, There are probably 50 players in the NBA right now who received max contracts. Satisfaction that you were right about inflated salaries will not make up for losing a franchise player.
The reason for offering an extension this summer is threefold: save money, remove distraction of contract from next season, and guarantee that Drew will be in purple and gold. For Drew, motivation is that he gets his big contract out of the way and focuses on just playing basketball and not wondering where he was going to be the next year.
Waiting until after next year is the first step that teams take on the way to losing key players. You don’t want to take any chances of losing as valuable a player as Drew. Franchise players come along once every couple of decades. You treat them with kid gloves because they ARE the franchise. Give the Beast his extension.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 12:23 PM
------------------------------------
Laker Tom
Thanks for the props, much appreciated.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:26 PM
Am I the only one that sees the irony in asking the best player in the game...perhaps the one player in this laker team that absolutely earns his dough (and is really underpaid by some standards)...to take a paycut so another player can get a max contract?
Things that make you go hum...
By the way LTLF, you forgot to add Kwame Brown to that list of players that get paid 9 mil and have yet to make an all-star game lol.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Faith | July 03, 2008 at 06:28 PM
Long Time,
>>>>>“If Bynum refuses to accept a huge offer (say 55 million over 6
>>>>>years, with incentives that can take it up to 80) and is insulted
>>>>>by that offer, then he's all about the benjamins. He doesn't really
>>>>>care about what team he plays for. He cares about money.
The problem with your statement and logic is that $55M over 6 years ($9M/year) is not a huge NBA contract and Drew is worth somewhere between $70M - $80M over 5 years. Oft injured Baron Davis just accepted a $65M 5-year deal from the Clippers despite a horrendous injury and attitude history. Agent Zero has two offers for more than $100M. We will probably give Sasha Vujacic half of that just to shoot 3-pointers off the bench.
You remind me of a friend’s aging mother who cannot figure out how much things cost due to her senility. Last week, she gave her gardener a check for $4.50 for the month and couldn’t understand why he was so pissed. After all, that’s what she used to give him when he first started working for her 40 years ago. He’s all about the benjamins.
Come on, Long Time. You have to pay players what they expect in today’s market –
not what you think they deserve. It’s all just entertainment. Pay Drew his due or be sorry. The Lakers know that and will pay. You will see. Get ready to deal with it.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 01:02 PM
--------------------------
Laker Tom
I agree.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:28 PM
Fatty,
Thanks for the article.
I'd love to see Corey Maggette or Quinton Ross in Purple and Gold!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 03, 2008 at 06:34 PM
LakerTom,
>> Come on, Long Time. You have to pay players what they expect in today’s market –
not what you think they deserve.
You are a sharp guy, but that statement is not one of your most insightful. Using your logic we would pay EVERY player the max.
What business doesn't judge on a daily basis what it is willing to pay it's employees?
You got to get over the touchy-feely "Don't hurt his feelings arguement. If he is that shallow.....we don't want him.
Posted by: Eric M. | July 03, 2008 at 01:47 PM
Eric M
AB is not shallow as most NBA players want to be paid for what the market value is going for. Yes a few accept less to get bigger payday and help the team. But reality is the first and foremost consideration is family.
AB wants to take care of his family first rightfully so and in the event of carreer ending injury he would want that security. The Lakers can take out insurance to cover their risk. Note the keywords when negotiating are respect, playing where I am wanted etc. for players so ignore that is an insult to them and I don't think teams want to lose them over that. Sure let a franchise player walk...do you really think the Lakers really want that and would say walk cuz you are shallow? I think not.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:36 PM
Jason,
>>>LET'S FACE IT WE WONT MAKE IT TO THE FINALS WITH THIS ROSTER !!!!!
>>>GET RID OF LUKE AND RADMANOVIC
You're right. It couldn't possibly happen.
Oh. Wait. It just did.
Okay, you're wrong.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 06:40 PM
LakerTom,
>>>Long Time’s problem is that he does not think that
>>>Andrew deserves a max contract because the market
>>>is inflated. In his mind, only Kareem and Kobe would be
>>>paid max salaries. Wake up, Long Time, There are
>>>probably 50 players in the NBA right now who received
>>>max contracts.
There are currently 19. Here are their names:
Joe Johnson
Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
LeBron James
Jason Kidd
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Allen Iverson
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Jermaine O'Neal
Elton Brand
Kobe Bryant
Shawn Marion
Dwyane Wade
Michael Redd
Stephon Marbury
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Almost every player on that list had made the All-Star team
(some several times) before they ever got a max contract
offer.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:16 PM
LTLF
I see you still like statistics to prove a point.
Since you like to look them up try this one. What was the price of gasoline when each player on that list signed their contract? Just curious.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:41 PM
JTLF,
You wrote some really interesting things about Bynum's contract and the extension.
Here's the thing: If AB leaves he will be leaving a championship team. He knows it
and everyone in the NBA is thinking it too. I'm not sure that there is a team out there
with enough talent and money to pay him the FAT contract and have enough for
the talent necessary to win a championship.
Is it worth it to:
A. Walk away from KAJ as a personal coach.
B. Walk away from PJ as a team coach.
C. Leave 3 or 4 championships ( my estimate of what he'll win in
the next 5 years) , before the age of 30, on the table.
For 10 million today? Keep in mind, that if he performs the way he wants/expects to
he will become the best C in the league and command TOP dollar on his next
contract. [ 10 million is an arbitrary number, but could be seen as an extra 2 mil per year
in a 5 year contract. ]
My personal opinion, if he goes for the 10 million today, we're better off without him.
I would prefer to have players who play for the love of the game and a desire to win.
Shaq is the type of player who plays for the $$ and I think/hope you'll agree that the
Lakers fans deserve someone who comes into camp in shape & plays with full
intensity for the full season.
Posted by: hobbitmage | July 03, 2008 at 06:45 PM
LakerTom,
You must get ahold of yourself man. You're entirely too optimistic. You aren't a businessman, are you? How do the Lakers hedge their risks?
It needs more proof, plain and simple.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 03, 2008 at 03:40 PM
Pig
Quite easily. You take out Llyod's of London insurance out on AB's knees. If they insure J-Los arse they will surely cover Anders knees.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:45 PM
Fatty...We played Croatia last night and won 78-74....We did make it to Beijing....We are playing team USA before the games start as a warm up....The biggest problem is Andrew Bogut is having trouble with the Bucks on an extension and wont train with the national team until he signs the new deal...Thats just wrong....As for the talent to watch get beaten by team USA..
1..David Barlow.
2..David Anderson.
3..Patty Mills.
4.Nathan Jawai.
5.Brad Newly..The Rockets still own his rights .
If we finish in the top 5 i would be rapt with that..
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 03, 2008 at 06:46 PM
ex,
Kobe has an opt out clause in his contract at the end of 2009/10 season, which if he elects would cancel the last year of his contract and make him an unrestricted free agent, similar to what Elton Brand originally intended to do before the Warriors decided to outbid the Clippers and steal him to make up for losing Baron. You cannot renegotiate contracts but you can sign new contracts if you are an unrestricted free agent.
Kobe would be giving up almost $25M in salary for the 2010/11 season but could sign a new $140M 7-year contract for the Lakers for $20M per year, saving them $5M a year in salary for the next 7 years and guaranteeing that Kobe would be a Laker for Life. Since that is what Shaq did for Riley in Miami, I have no doubt that Kobe would be receptive to doing the same for the Lakers.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 06:47 PM
passionate Lakers fan,
Lay off JustaLakerFan.
Dude, you're just another moron who thinks that the key to a successful team is having 10 all-starts on it. It doesn't work that way.
You're also the type of tiresome person who is only "passionate" about complaining.
If we had a healthy Andrew Bynum on this year's team, we would have been NBA Champions.
We have the opportunity to tweak this team, get a healthy Bynum back and with an additional year together, this team will be a monster next year.
You are too much of a moron to see that and would instead rather throw a third of the team under the bus in a childish, playground tantrum.
You are a tool.
Next year we are winning the Championship WITH Luke, Lamar, and Rad Vlad on the roster.
And you will still complain.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 03, 2008 at 03:08 PM
Jon K
Thanks for having my back. I really don't need the protection as I can defend myself but I appreciate the support. Thanks again!
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 06:54 PM
I've never been a fan of Gilbert Arenas but signing a contract for 16 million less than what he could have signed for...well, you've got to give the guy credit for that.
mike t.
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | July 03, 2008 at 06:57 PM
Guys, how are the clippers able to afford Barron and Brand. I thought the only reason they were going after Davis was because Brand Opted out. Can the Warriors end up with Brand and Davis?
On the other shoe. If the Lakers can get Posey or Magetti we'll be fine. AB is better then Kaman, Kobe better than Davis, Lamar better than Thornton, Gasol as good as brand.
Posted by: | July 03, 2008 at 06:59 PM
Fatty,
>>>Wouldn't Sasha be a nice fit for Nelson's system?
Unquestionably. Nelly would love Sasha's complete lack of conscience for jacking up
threes as well as his high accuracy on hitting them.
But Golden State has a very similar player in Marco Belinelli. He was a rookie last
season so he didn't get much play, but I think eventually he'll be as good a deadeye
shooter as the machine, and for now he's a lot cheaper than Sasha would be.
I'd be more inclined to expect the Warriors to try and poach Ronny Turiaf.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 06:59 PM
Long Time,
Well, the blog knows now how to keep the post count up. Get the two of us into a debate. LOL. Good discussion that other bloggers might look at to learn how to fight for your position without denigrating your fellow blogger.
>>>>>“And what's more, you keep ignoring my suggestion that the
>>>>>contract include incentives that could boost it to a full max
>>>>>contract if Bynum's progress met the standards you are all
>>>>>expecting of him.
Sorry but I have to do some work during the day and I am having a hard time keeping up with you. I feel like the 1-man law firm that just got sued by Microsoft’s legion of lawyers. My response is I have no problems with incentives but you won’t be able to sell Bynum’s agent on that approach other than for spiff amounts. You also have a problem in that any reasonable incentives will be included in the salary figure for Drew per the salary cap. Here is the link that explains when incentives are included or excluded
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#61
Listen, we both agree that the Lakers need to sign Drew to an extension this summer. If you check the CBA stuff I posted earlier about how extensions work for first round picks on a rookie scale contract, you will see that if we do not sign him to an extension by October 31, 2008, Drew can just play out the last year of his contract and the year required by our tendering him a qualifying offer and he would be a free agent. That is something that I hope no Lakers fan wishes to happen.
Once we can agree that it would be foolish for the Lakers NOT to sign Drew to an extension, then the only issue we really have is how much he should be paid. If you honestly look at the salaries being paid in the NBA today, I think you would realize that $55M is really not a big contract. If Mitch could get Drew and his agent to agree to that, it would be as big a miracle as the deal he pulled off for Pau. In the end, Drew will agree to an extension this summer and will lead us to the championship next year. Then we will finally be in agreement. LOL. Thanks for engaging discussion, Long Time. You are a most worthy, articulate, and intelligent blogger.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 03, 2008 at 07:04 PM
LakerTom,
>>>the Lakers are going to sign Drew to near-max deal before
>>>next season begins ...And they will overpay rather than
>>>risk creating ill will or bad feelings that could come back to
>>>haunt them.
hmm.
Vlade - full MLE
Luke - 30 million for 6 years
You may be right.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 03, 2008 at 04:06 PM
LTLF
Now thats just wrong to compare the beast to Luke and Rad. in the words of Mamba 24. Stop it man. Stop it now.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 03, 2008 at 07:05 PM