Questions of the day: On the Olympics, gold and priorities
There were mini-waves kicked up yesterday when it was reported Kobe Bryant said that, on the Importance-O-Meter, an Olympic gold medal trumps an NBA title. Why?
"You're playing for your country. You're not playing for a region, a state … you're playing for the United States of America and that has more importance."
Seems fair enough, but on the other hand, as a Laker sfan, does this bother you? Listening to the sports talk on the radio last night, I heard AM 570's Joe McDonnell railing not on Kobe personally, but on this idea that a gold is a bigger deal. I was given the impression he believes players have a larger obligation to the fans of the city for which they play, to the organization that pays them, and so on, and that an NBA title is a bigger deal. I didn't listen long, nor particularly closely, but there were probably a few callers who agreed. Of course, in some ways, your thoughts on this issue are linked to the Olympic question generally. So with that, I ask today's Questions of the Day:
1) Do you care that Kobe said an Olympic gold was more important than an NBA title?
2) Generally speaking, do you like to see the stars of your favorite teams play in the Olympics? Especially a player like Kobe, who is risking injury, exhaustion (yes, even Kobe gets tired), and putting off surgery on his finger? Don't forget, Pau Gasol is playing too.
For me?
1) No, it doesn't bother me. As important as an NBA title is to him, the city, the organization, fans, and beyond, it doesn't have to be literally the top priority of his life. Family, friends, and yes, even other basketball competitions can come first. I do wonder what Kobe would say if he didn't already have three rings, and if his thoughts would be any different. But even if they weren't, it doesn't matter. He has, by force of his play, shown how much he wants an NBA title. Nobody is more competitive. That should be enough.
Had he said that an MVP was more important, we could talk. But chastising him for believing that winning for one's country is larger than winning for one's city and employer? I don't see it.
2) If I'm Phil Jackson, Jerry Buss, Mitch Kupchak, and the rest of the Lakers organization, I'd just as soon see Kobe and Pau rest. I'm sure most GMs and coaches feel the same about their players who are part of Team USA. The NBA is a brutal place, especially for players who go deep into the postseason. There is little time to rest and recoup before things crank right back up for training camp. Players need downtime, and can suffer if they don't get it. The Lakers are in a position now where they could play an extra 20+ games a year for the foreseeable future. That takes a toll.
That said, I also understand- and totally agree with- the idea that as a team, you can't stop a player from playing in something as special as the Olympics. I know some of the mystique of the games has gone as more pros in every sport get involved, more money is pumped into and sucked out of, and more politics play into the Games, but they're still the Olympics, and the opportunity to represent one's country in international competition is huge. It's a different kind of pride, one that Kobe alludes to and that clearly Gasol feels as well.
Is it a nerve wracking time for fans and teams alike? In a lot of ways, absolutely. But big picture, you can never fault a player for wanting to play for his country.
BK
Another reason these guys love the Euro- League?
The season is short, real short.
It starts in mid Oct and runs thru May.
But here's the breakdown.
14 reg. season games, that's all.
Then the top 16 teams play 6 games and the top ones advance to the playoffs.
The playoffs - 3 games
The Finals (single elimination)- 2 games
Total if you run the playoffs and finals = 25 games.
No back to backs. Games are played every 6-11 days.
My high school schedule was tougher.
Childress (25 games - Euro league) = 400,000 per game
Kobe (82 games + NBA playoffs) = 198,000 per game
Posted by: Fatty | July 23, 2008 at 08:16 PM
If Kobe and the Lakers win the NBA title, just people in the Greater LA Metropolitan Area would be happy.
If Kobe and Team USA wins Gold. Even Celtic fans would be happy.
'Nuff said.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | July 23, 2008 at 08:26 PM
AK, BK, Long Time,
Thanks for the information. Andy may be right about the annual qualifying offers being the key issue. It’s interesting, though, in that Childress no longer has a contract with the Hawks. Rather all of this is about his NBA rights under the CBA.
What you are really saying is that because Childress entered into a contract with a non-NBA team, his NBA rights are like held in suspension. I imagine this would be similar to a situation where a restricted free agent retired rather than accepting the qualifying offer, I’m sure the NBA would not allow that, just as they wouldn’t allow a player to break free by going overseas. Makes sense.
There’s a potential lawsuit brewing on several points for the NBA with respect to its draft age rule requiring a year of college as well as the disparity in rules for foreign players, which may become more important if the NBA loses some of its allure due to big money for playing overseas. I don’t think the NBA wants to see that happen and imagine that the may adjust the size of contract that teams over the cap can sign each year to make that amount higher than the MLE or average salary.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 23, 2008 at 08:27 PM
BK & AK,
There is an interesting wrinkle to Childress situation, however, as his salary will still count against the Hawks in determining total salaries, even though they don’t have to pay Childress anything. Here is an explanation from Sean Deveney of Sporting News:
“This is not necessarily the end of Childress's NBA career. Tanner said Childress's contract with Olympiacos includes a clause that allows Childress to explore NBA options after each season. There is no buyout -- neither Childress nor an NBA team would have to pay Olympiacos if he leaves. The Hawks will hold Childress's rights, but as long as they do, he will count against the salary cap, giving the Hawks some incentive to either trade Childress to a team willing to pay him more, or to withdraw its qualifying offer and make Childress a restricted free agent. “
http://www.sportingnews.com/
yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=437475
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 23, 2008 at 08:38 PM
AK - BK
You see it going on, the bickering politics is growing.
I love to come here to talk and learn about Lakers basketball.
Biased political rants has no place on the blog as you've said. I've tried to warn, as others have done as well. It will ruin this blog if it is allowed to continue.
Drewpuakobe's anti-american, politically inspired rant, full of idealogical propaganda, has no place here. This is a sports blog. If you feel that's ok, then so be it. This place will quickly become a ghost town if you condone and allow those type of posts.
On this blog, I am not a Dem or a Pub, just a Lakers Fan. And for the record, I have never voted Republican in my life. But I detest politics on a Lakers blog. If people can't control their political emotions, then blog on the political blogs, they will be welcomed to do so.
Perhaps a name change is order. "24/7 Lakers and politics"
Posted by: Fatty | July 23, 2008 at 08:40 PM
Xodus,
I vehemently disagree with you. If you want to discuss individual items I am more than willing to do so. Let me know, and I will get you my email address.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 23, 2008 at 09:26 PM
Fatty,
The irony is thick. I love American so much I am willing to fight for her. There is not one word of my post that was anti-American...in fact it is all very pro-American. And if you listen to the news you know that both parties acknowledge that we are no longer leading the world in any of the issues I raised: education, health care, et all. And for the record, you don't know how I vote. Ask Ron Paul or Chuck Hagel what they think of the issues I mention for example, both Republicans. These are issues important to all Americans, regardless of political affiliation. And I talk about them in regards to one of the major themes of this thread, PRIDE IN COUNTRY, and how that relates to our participation in the Olympics. I do not bring them up in threads about Lamar Odom trades.
The point of my statement is not to offend but to emphasize why the OUTCOME of the Olympics is not important. It is the SPIRIT of the Olympics, competition and mutual respect, that is important. The NBA is for "hating" your opponent. The Olympics are for something much greater. That's why I agree with Kobe and it's my belief that's why athletes wish to participate.
Posted by: DrewPauKobe | July 23, 2008 at 09:29 PM
Sure, Kobe cares more about winning a gold medal. He can win the NBA championship.
Posted by: Boston Celtics Fan | July 23, 2008 at 09:44 PM
About Politics,
My wife always wisely warned me not to talk politics unless you are in safe company. As you could expect, advice like that usually led me to do exactly the opposite. LOL. Anyway, giantsquid said it perfectly earlier when he said that “People's political views are probably largely shaped by their personalities and experiences not their IQ.”
While I get as passionate as anybody about politics, I found it extremely sobering to remember how many times in the past I changed sides, beliefs, and convictions as I grew up and then became older. And each time I was just as sure I was right this time. Pretty hard to mock someone’s else’s political views when you consider that, isn’t it?
I really don’t mind an occasional political comment or humorous aside, so long as we respect other bloggers’ and commenters’ political opinions same as their basketball opinions. Calling somebody an idiot because they’re a democrat or republican is no different than calling a supporter of Luke or Lamar a fool. We are better than that.
Anyway, that’s my take. Just be courteous and treat everybody with respect. Maybe then we won’t have to be censored by the forces of the blog. Peace.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 23, 2008 at 09:55 PM
sonny,
We're cool.
Reread my posts. I know they come off a little like I disagree with you, but really, I don't. I understand your position. I just came across a little strangely in my posts.
I'm trying to add not argue. :)
I threw the Berkeley bit in there to show not everyone from Berkeley is ashamed of their country though there certainly is that element of tooldom you've described.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 23, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Drewpaukobe
Your comments are strongly anti-american and political, and many would think they are, including me. Your bold claim, "I would fight for this country" comes in as hollow. Whether you think they are or not, is not the point. There is no place for them on a Lakers sports blog.
What does Gitmo detainees have to do with Kobe playing in the Olympics? Nothing. You threw that in to preach your biased doctrine and perverted view of what you think America should be like.
Those detained terrorists bring up a lot of questions about what to do with terrorists captured in the field of battle. But that discussion has nothing to do with the Lakers or this blog. Save your politically biased speeches for other blogs.
Again AK-BK , see where this is going?
Posted by: Fatty | July 23, 2008 at 10:13 PM
What's up with all of the esoteric political ideology BS. I thought this was a sports blog. Didn't we all agree to leave that off? Representing the USA is awesome. Let's not get into the progressives v. conservatives garbage.
Sonny's post answered neither of the questions posed above. Why respond? He just wants to make you do his bidding and stir the Laker pot. Kinda like Mike t. Only smarter and not psycho.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 23, 2008 at 04:55 PM
If you think sports can be disentangled completely from politics and that one does not influence the other, you're in for a real surprise Pig.
Given that we're talking about the Olympics here, it seems like a fairly natural progression for the conversation to take.
As for sonny, he graduated from being a troll a long time ago. I think many here appreciate his contribution. I know I do.
He did almost make the mistake of letting the few represent the group, however. It's a common enough mistake and he did manage to avoid doing so which means I can't hold it against him.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 23, 2008 at 10:15 PM
sonny,
One other thing. I mentioned specifically wheat beer from Germany. I've had wheat beer from quite a few US brewers: Boston Beer Co (Sam Adams), Coast Range, Pyramid, Anchor Steam, Sierra Nevada, Widmer, Blue Moon, New Belgium (that's just off the top of the head, there are more) and none even comes close to the quality of the wheat beer in Germany. Give me a Maisel's or a Markischer Landmann or a Spaten Muenchen anyday.
And if you want to talk "sampling" Sierra, I've probably sampled it over a 2000 times, the Pale Ale of course. There's no single beer I've had more often. Yes, I realize that's practically 1 a day for 6 years.
I'd say I'm pretty familiar with the product. :)
Posted by: Benjamin | July 23, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Fatty,
In that case, in your opinion The Supreme Court and the Government Accountability and Oversight Office are strongly anti-American as well. I say again (and for the final time), my (admittedly) political statements were made in regards to PRIDE IN COUNTRY, of which I am very secure. Specifically, my PRIDE IN MY COUNTRY is affected by the ACTIONS OF MY COUNTRY, not so much by whether we win a basketball game. But they are not aligned with one party or even one brand of ideology. I am not espousing one candidate over another, nor am I saying anything that hasn't been well established by multiple branches and departments of our own government. John McCain himself has said if we are perceived as torturers, our soldiers will suffer when they are captured. It is hardly propaganda.
I will not list the ways in which I have served and continue to serve my country because they are my own business. I am sorry my brand of patriotism, which involves loving my country as I do a family member, faults and all, is offensive to you. But I would point out that your vitriolic response does more to push a political ideology than anything I have stated. Not to mention the personal attack tonality you incorporate by using the terms "anti-American," "hollow" and "perverted." Where this discussion is going is driven by your misplaced anger, for which I take no responsibility.
One of the things the Olympics does is throw a light on international politics and human rights around the world (think 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984 in particular), so a civil discourse among (mostly) adults that includes those issues is, in my opinion, highly appropriate when discussing the Olympics.
With that I sincerely bid you a friendly good evening.
Posted by: DrewPauKobe | July 23, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Fatty,
DUDE! According to your very astute breakdown, Childress is a genius. Plus, the fact that the Hawks still have his rights, and must consider trading him, or making him a restricted free agent...
Makes Kobe look kinda dumb? He's gonna make more relative money for doing much less work then even the highest paid super stars of the NBA.
The only guys doing better are those aging and injured superstars of the NBA who are currently getting paid millions to warm benches or rehab or both.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | July 24, 2008 at 08:17 AM
Benjamin,
"If you think sports can be disentangled completely from politics and that one does not influence the other, you're in for a real surprise Pig."
Can't you make this same statement about practically everything in life? Certainly the questions asked above had nothing (or at best very little) to do with people's political beliefs, yet Sonny showed up and took it in that direction, even after several posters had asked to have it left out in previous strings.
"Given that we're talking about the Olympics here, it seems like a fairly natural progression for the conversation to take."
That's a fair statement. I tend to agree somewhat, but I thought the Olympics were about setting aside our politics in favor of the purity of competition and good sportsmanship. Are they not?
"As for sonny, he graduated from being a troll a long time ago. I think many here appreciate his contribution. I know I do."
I certainly would in the event that he came to talk basketball. From the posts of his that I've read, I usually get a couple of links that pertain to the Kings, and bunch of vitriolic spew about Lakers fans and how utterly vapid and clueless we all are. He usually comes here to insult us at large. Either that or work us into a tizzy by throwing out some generalized statement like the one he posted above regarding political ideologies.
"He did almost make the mistake of letting the few represent the group, however. It's a common enough mistake and he did manage to avoid doing so which means I can't hold it against him."
Any way you slice it, that comment took the convo in a direction in almost no way associated with basketball, and most of us decided to leave politics off of the blog. I guess freedom of speech has its drawbacks. But thank goodness we've got it.
Thanks for the response homey. All the best.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | July 24, 2008 at 08:39 AM
All,
Some of us have to spend all day analyzing public policy, political parties, and legal issues professionally. Please don't waste a perfectly good opportunity to talk about sports by dragging that stuff in here as well.
Thanks,
Posted by: The D | July 24, 2008 at 08:53 AM
Benjamin,
Americans NOW make the best beer in the world, thanks to the microbrewery revolution founded by Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, and Anchor Steam.
American creativity beats out over European tradition any day of the week.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 24, 2008 at 09:15 AM
Jon K.
I wish I can say that. They just sold my favorite Budweiser to the Germans, therefore it's no longer American.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 24, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Benjamin,
Americans NOW make the best beer in the world, thanks to the microbrewery revolution founded by Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, and Anchor Steam.
American creativity beats out over European tradition any day of the week.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 24, 2008 at 09:15 AM
You're missing the best ones, Rogue, Coast Range, and Goose Island.
I like American creativity, but I continue to explain that American wheat beers were the only ones I was saying was inferior in a definitive sense.
My favorite beer style continues to be amber/brown ale, and I love the American style of this brew. Red Nectar really does it for me as have others that are not as consistently available.
I'll admit, however, that I believe Belgium makes the best beers in the world. If you like complex, well-crafted beers, you simply can't do better. Samuel Smith's in England isn't shabby either.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 24, 2008 at 05:13 PM
Benjamin,
Wow, you know your brews well for a Berkeley boy. Back here hidden in the old threads you can almost talk about anything you want (just kidding, Kambros), but I will restrain myself from bringing up the fantastic array of marijuana variations I saw and sampled during my trip last week to my licensed neighborhood medical marijuana dispensary. These old threads are fun.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 24, 2008 at 08:48 PM