Bill Bill now pays himself 5%
Ron Artest has always acted like a split personality kinda guy, so I guess it's only fitting that he add "Agent/Athlete" to his Jekyll/Hyde resume. Artest has announced that he's seeking a trade out of Sacto, and that he'll be negotiating on his own behalf for the near future. Which, of course, takes us back to the Lakers, rumored to be in the mix, but according to ESPN's Marc Stein, reluctant to give up Lamar Odom (conflicting with previous reports that the Lakers were offering up LO. Gotta love the rumor mill). Like the Sacto Bee's Sam Amick, Stein also sees Ronny Turiaf's situation as a potential indicator of an Artest deal down the road.
By the way, check out the following paragraph. Am I crazy, or is
this Artest saying that had the Knicks not have fired Isiah Thomas,
he'd have either opted out and signed with New York or have tried to
arrange a sign and trade there? Or is it just Ron Ron/Bill Bill
babbling his usual stream of consciousness?
"In a way I wish this [coming 2008-09 season] would have been [Theus']
first year and [Adelman] would have left this summer, because it could
have showed how much [of] a winner I am. Guys like Rick Adelman and
Rick Carlisle [brought] that out of me. Isiah [Thomas] was going to
bring that out of me if he didn't get fired [by the Knicks]. A coach
like Phil Jackson can bring that out me."
Very odd. But he does mention PJ as the ideal coach, a hardly subtle indication of where he wouldn't mind going.
All Artest jokes aside, it does sometimes strike me as strange that so many athletes even have agents. If you know your market value and can negotiate without being difficult, I'm not even sure what point the agent serves, aside from taking your dough. You definitely need a lawyer, but an agent? Just something I've always found curious.
AK
JustLakerFan
that should have been 3 of 4 wins against playoff team.
Taking this a little further, Gasol did not play power forward in 6 of the 13 games Memphis won with Gasol. Only 1 of the 7 wins in which Gasol played power forward was against a playoff team. 3 of the 6 wins in which he did not play power forward were against playoff teams. Additionally, of the 7 wins with Gasol at PF, Milicic played 20 minutes or less indicating that Gasol played most of his minutes at center in those games since Memphis had no other post players at the time.
Gasol at PF is not a good idea.
Posted by: giantsquid | July 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM
BD,
>>>fyi-thought Mayo looked great..didn't you? I think Minn
>>>will regret that trade. Even thou I like Miller.
I thought he looked great and I thought he looked like a rookie.
He made a lot of turnovers.
When they let OJ play 1-on-5 in the 3rd quarter he really shined
for awhile. He could turn out to be a very special player.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM
The Lakers are saying Odom is off the table for Artest because they want the Kings to think they don't want to give him up..To show his value...The kings want to hurt the lakers and not help them so dont get too excited about this trade..It's a long shot this trade will happen.
Posted by: zen | July 14, 2008 at 12:09 PM
If you analyze the William Artest saga....
1. He was hanging around in '06 waiting to be picked up by the Lakers & Odom to Pacers, Jim Buss convinced his Pa' that he's not good for the Lakers;
2. Kobe's beserk last summer included the failure of the F/O to get Artest w/o referring to LO.
3. Artest continue to do crazy things in the Kings, his dog, his family that annoyed the classy Maloof's Brothers with "on again and off again" stance, he got suspended several times for violation of team's rules.
4. He hanged around the Lakers locker room during the Finals cheering for Kobe and LO, thus developed friendship with them.
5. He wants to be All American guy who would help Team USA and applied to GM Colangelo as the 11th player for the team. He is engaged also in many charitable causes.
6. Ready to opt out last month and joined the Lakers but was convinced by his agent to consider the idea of staying with the Kings to sustain his present scale that starts at 8M rather than a MLE contract.
7. Geoff Petrie gave him a doze of reality that he'snot wanted and put him on the corner for the next 12 days which ended up this weekend. He admitted his blunder for not opting out in June 30th.
8. Lakers made a silent offer of LO for Artest. Kings countered with Artest + Kenny Thomas. Now Lakers are not sure of offering LO and waiting for the Kings to change the ramifications of the trade.
9. Ron-ron changed his name to William or Bill for short w/c is his second name according to him or preparing to go to Hollywood with a good image. (He could have reflected the spirit of William the Conqueror, the legend of William Tell always the target, William Holden or go with probably Slick Willie. lol)
10. He declared himself as an NBA agent. He can now bug the Kings F/O everyday from Petrie to Maloof Bros. to trade him, being an agent to himself. How can you resist a persistent agent calling you every hour, texting every opportunity, asking for a trade of his client which is himself. He could be a pest.
IMO, he should a Laker to have that kind of character. We need gutsy players in our team to confront with the modern NBA bullies. Lets protect our precious talents Kobe, Pau and Drew by having an enforcer to put the game in order.
Just like in this blog, we need a character Mike T. to keep the blog rolling with delight. haha!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 14, 2008 at 12:12 PM
JustaLakerFan
I was reading your post response from the other blog thread.
I think you put wayyyy too much into the Lakers using Odom's 14 million expiring contract potentially.
That would be a disaster of a move.
Odom's 14 million rolling off would leave us over the cap or only 1-2 million under the cap at best.
Now who exactly do you think we can get for 1-2 million a yr to replace Lamar Odom's impact or do even better.
Trust me on this one.
We need to get Odom to extend now (we don't want to), or move him this summer (perhaps) , or at the very least move him before the All Star break (Might not get the right piece at that time by waiting around but there will be options))
Posted by: Lakerbake | July 14, 2008 at 11:42 AM
--------------------------
Sorry to disagree but 1-2 million is money under the cap. So if we lose that salary we can get another player w/o getting as deep into cap say bring in Sun Yue. IMHO I think we should keep him but options are kept open.
No offense but I don't trust anyone especially someone I don't know ;-))
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 14, 2008 at 12:13 PM
How come we are not hearing anything recently about the Lakers and James Posey? Is Mitch just flying under the radar or are the Lakers not interested in Posey any more?
Posted by: MOLaker | July 14, 2008 at 12:16 PM
AN 1,
>>>You implied that Karl has a guaranteed spot on the
>>>Lakers team and he doesn't.
True. But there are several things in his favor:
1. he's already signed
2. he already has a year learning the triangle.
3. he did get a few minutes of PT last season, and not all of it in garbage time.
4. The Lakers currently only have 11 players under contract, and the league minimum roster size is 13. If they
waive Coby, then they have to hire someone else.
My understanding is that in the post-season interviews, Phil
told Coby that he'd have a better chance of making the roster
(and even getting some PT) if he worked on his defense.
In the summer league he does seem to be working hard on
defense and playing fairly well...
Aaron Afflalo vs Coby = 6-14 for 15 points
Aaron Afflalo vs Clippers = 8-10 for 25 points
OJ Mayo vs Coby = 6-13 for 15 points, 6 turnovers
OJ Mayo vs Bucks = 9-19 for 26 points, 4 turnovers
So Coby's not locking his opponent down, but he isn't getting
dominated by anyone, even some of the best summer league
players.
I'll have to post a clip of Coby blocking a jump shot by Mayo,
then going down to the offensive end and throwing an
alley-oop.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Wes wrote:
I hope Mitch has something up his sleeve. If we're not going to get Artest, are we making an offer to Posey? I hope we are. It looks like the best he got was a 2 year, full exception deal. Why aren't we offering the full mid level for 3 years? I think he's worth it.
That's what I was hoping for myself;
Basically, I would just like to keep the same group of guys together with the addition of maybe one savvy veteran like Posey to start at the 3. Then assuming Andrew makes a full recovery, you effectively make the addition of two new impact players to last years roster for next season.
Unfortunately, according to the latest news report on the Posey front from the Celtic blog. He may sign sometime today. However the Lakers appear to be nowhere mentioned in the running for him. :(
POSEY DECISION NEAR?
Posted by Marc J. Spears, Globe Staff July 13, 2008 11:30 PM
-------------------------------------------------------
Celtics forward James Posey's agent, Mark Bartelstien, said Sunday that there could be "something" contract-wise for his client on Monday. Bartelstien would not divulge the interested teams, but an NBA source said that the Hornets seem to be Boston's main competition. The Celtics seem willing to give Posey the full $5.5 mid-level exception, but it seems doubtful that it will be offered more than two years. The 31-year-old seems interested in getting a four-year deal. Other teams potentially interested in Posey include Detroit, Washington and Cleveland.
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 14, 2008 at 12:18 PM
I could see odom and radmonovic for artest, if the salaries work out. Representing himself to me means that he would only sign with the Lakers, *if* he were a free agent, which he's not. Might have to wait a year on this one.
Posted by: DanS | July 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM
-----------------------------
Ouch that trade would really hurt. We would be very thin at the 4 spot. RT, LO and Rad gone can all play 4. RA only 3 consistantly. No way. Stand pat I say.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 14, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Dear Ginatsquid, I don't get where you are coming up with your reasoning for Pau being a bad PF. Did he dominate the post with Darko Mililicic at the 5? No, but he also didn't have a perimeter threat like Kobe Bryant, a nightmare match-up at the 3 like Lamar and if you think that Darko is better than Andrew Bynum...well I just don't know what to say to that one. In half a season AB 17 has distinguished himself more than Darko in 3. He plays better defence, plays in the post, and has more drive. Despite the fact that there is a blog titled FreeDarko.com, I think that Andrew bynum will free up Gasol as much as Gasol freed up Odom. How much better will Gasol be with Bynum in the line up and Odom on the wing?
That's exactly what we are waiting until November to see.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | July 14, 2008 at 12:22 PM
JustLakerFan
"Actually Okur prefers perimeter shots and for his size does not like to bang. Advantage Gasol. Even if you disagree with this, substitute Odom on Okur. Same with the other matchups. See the part I said about starting 10 with initial 5 getting early minutes depending on matchup"
In the Grizzlies most humiliating defeats last year (with Gasol), Detroit (27}, Orlando (27) and surprisingly Utah (24), Gasol played power forward. Even more surprising, Gasol did not play power forward in 3 or 4 wins against playoff teams.
Coincidence? I think not.
Posted by: giantsquid | July 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM
-------------------
Now that's a fruit salad. Apples and oranges. We are not talking Memphis but LA. Did PG play out of position in Memphis when he got all star numbers? This year with healthy AB back, with LO and Kobe will be nothing like he had in Memphis. So with current Lakers and matchups forget about past coincidence because it will be new ball game here. No need to worry about Detroit , Utah, or Orlando match up wise.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 14, 2008 at 12:27 PM
I love all the Artest poison talk...pathetic...you know everyone across the nation says the same thing about our MVP, he is a cancer, a ball hog, shoots to much and on and on....what a joke..
You put Artest in a winning situation with the Lakers, Phil, and Kobe and I am sure the Lakers will get the good Artest. ( I am sure the Lakers think the same thing)
Odom over Artest? Artest is the missing piece. I guess a lot of you didn't see the last game Sac vs NO played. It was Artest that won that game and gave the Lakers the Home Court advantage the rest of the way... by the way the next night Artest didn't play against the Lakers.
How could the Lakers not want Artest to lock down the 3 position for the next 5 years? I know you think Odom will improve his shooting, his mental toughness..it just isn't going to happen and I am sorry but Luke and Vlade just don't cut it for a Championship team either. Lets get a real 3 that has some tougness to him. Then if they can't win after that maybe it's time to get rid of Kobe because there is no way the should lose with that lineup. I would expect 82-0 in the regular season.
BD
Posted by: BD | July 14, 2008 at 11:13 AM
-------------------------------------------
BD
You may expect 82-0 but realistically it won't happen. Lucky to win if RA goes balistic again and we lose good players and core to get him.
Just say no to Drugs and RA is a drug. notice not a lot of teams banging on Sacs door to get him.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 14, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Laker Tom
So you are a left wing lunatic sorry to hear the news mate...Liberalism = multiple mental disorders.....And stay away from my rifle and guns :lame: I need my protection from the gangsters and criminals.
Posted by: Dr. John Smith | July 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM
JLF,
>>>Sorry to disagree but 1-2 million is money under the cap.
Actually, it's much better to be 1-2 million OVER the salary cap
than 1-2 million under.
If you're 2 million under the salary cap, then the maximum
contract you can offer a free agent is 2 million.
If you're 2 million over the salary cap, then you can offer a
full MLE contract (almost 6 million this season).
You don't get the MLE if you're under the cap.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 01:00 PM
Posey wants too much money and too many years. He just strikes me as one of those guys just suddenly loses it, like Aaron McKee, one minute he's a solid player, the next minute he can't even get backup minutes. The only question is when - probably not next year but possibly the year after or the one after that, and Posey wants more than a 3 year contract. I don't think he's worth it, especially if we could groom Ariza or bring in Artest.
I see some people are drinking the Coby Karl cool-aide... and people complain about Walton's defense? good luck on that one... Coby is nowhere near a replacement for Sasha.
Posted by: Kwaminus "Bill" Brownicus cracking his knuckles getting ready for a contract | July 14, 2008 at 01:02 PM
-Ron Artest-
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;
_ylt=AuQEkPkiHE3ep2Fwlp_25Xq8vLYF?slug=jy-
artestsummer071308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Laker Tom,
I've always like Shareef. Year before last, the man played hard with his jaw wired shut for weeks. He's obviously a great player with well rounded skills. But, he's old. Two surgeries last year. Occupied the pine. As with many players, a move (to a playoff contender) might give him new vitality. Don't have a clue really. I wish him good luck. Kenny Thomas is strange. He's big, athletic, very tough down low, and can't make a layup. Kenny has provided moments of excitement with his play, but has never been a good fit here; kind of a loner. Again, a change of scenery may be just the ticket for him, but I doubt it. For some time now, neither of them have fit into the plans of our very young team.
Don't be fooled by loudmouth broadcasters and fans on the radio. Most Kings fans I know like Brad Miller, particularly since he redeemed himself with last years performance. We appreciate too that Brad isn't part of any long range plans, but wouldn't mind him sticking around to mentor Spencer and the other young bigs. He is a smart player who is still one of the best passing and perimeter shooting big men in the league.
No one knows what Mr. Bill will do next, and frankly, so long as it doesn't involve getting into some kind of trouble, most Sac fans I know don't really care. Recently, and on the local scene here in a big way, William has involved himself in radio, tv and the community generally. I honestly believe that Ron, er, Bill, thought he'd be offered a long term contract here and now is just lashing out. We can afford to wait in order to optimize what we get in exchange for him. In the meantime, he could catch fire with our young ones and end up with the Kings for the long haul after all. In any case, the man is a hell of a nice guy and a monster to watch on the court.
At any event, why would your team consider giving up Lamar (who is functionally the Laker MVP) for anyone? As good as Bill is, that's just nuts!
Your appraisal of pot laws and attitudes is right on.
Sonnybelfast
Posted by: Sonnybelfast | July 14, 2008 at 01:04 PM
MOLaker,
>>>Is Mitch just flying under the radar or are the Lakers
>>>not interested in Posey any more?
My understanding of the situation (and the rumor mill is a little
hazy) is that Boston has offered him 2 years of full MLE level
money, but that he's fishing for 3 or 4 years of MLE money, which
nobody has offered him yet. I think the rumor is that
Cleveland is the team talking to him most right now.
I think the Lakers would like to have Posey, but not for
that much money or that many years.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 01:11 PM
I just feel this team needs:
1. Players that you know are going to bring contribute consistently positive to the table. Whether it is defense, rebounding or shooting.
2. A player that’s going to get us over the hump. Which is that perimeter defense and shooting.
Regarding Luke and Vladimir: We are stuck with those contracts. Being culpable for those contracts is tough due to the amount of money the can be used for team improvement. I would love some dream scenario like Tayshaun Prince for Luke Vlad but time to get of the Alice in Wonderland ride. (Though Vlad will have the tradability due to 3 years versus the 4-5 left with Luke.) Might as well Treat Walton as a 12th man situation player. Use him against the Wally Scerbiaks (spelling) and 2nd-3rd string slow, un-athletic SF-PF’s. Vlad, is either a 1st quarter guy and if he cools down pull him out.
I understand we were 2 games from a Championship. But if you recall the Miami Heat from the 2004-2005 Roster had:
Damon Jones
Eddie Jones
Christian Laetner
Steve Smith
Wang Zhi-Zhi
Rasual Butler
Keyon Dooling
And then they had the following for the Championship Year:
Toine Walker
James Posey
Jason Kapono
Derek Anderson.
We have made great strides by trading and not resigning:
Kwame Brown
Cook
Parker
And acquiring the following was instrumental for last season:
Fisher
Gasol
Ariza
While there is no news on Posey, I say resign Vujacic and sign Posey.
For the Ronny Fanatics: If there is a way for Golden State to do a Ronny for Vladimir barter via Sir Stamford Raffles and the East India Company trading port on the Straits of Malacca. That would make the Turiaf maniacs happy. Radmanovich would look like Toni Kukoc on Nellie’s system. With the Triangle offense, Vlad look’s like Jelani McCoy shooting 3’s.
Since Artest is his own agent, either:
1. Bill-Ron earns himself a buyout and sign for the midlevel with us.
2. Convince the Kings for this deal. Cash, draft pick, and expiring contracts next year. http://tinyurl.com/68n58x
Fantasy I know.
Sign Artest if we keep Odom. The Kings have someone who wants out.
Posted by: Charles | July 14, 2008 at 01:11 PM
LoveTheLakeShow,
>>>Unfortunately, according to the latest news report on the
>>>Posey front from the Celtic blog. He may sign sometime
>>>today. However the Lakers appear to be nowhere
>>>mentioned in the running for him. :(
Hey, as long as Posey doesn't re-sign with the Celtics, I'd
be happy to see him go almost anywhere, preferably in the
East.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 01:13 PM
Edwin wrote:
IMO, he should be a Laker to have that kind of character. We need gutsy players in our team to confront with the modern NBA bullies. Lets protect our precious talents Kobe, Pau and Drew by having an enforcer to put the game in order.
Edwin you hit it on the nail about needing a tough guy. When Turiaf smiled and patted Powe on the Butt I knew we were in trouble in that series. Yes Bynum would have helped in the toughness catagory but we need somebody at least a little nasty, don't you think? I still see
PJ Brown's smile at Farmar during the series also. Didn't like it one bit. Like the 1 article stated...you could be sure Artest wouldn't be in a fetal position just because KG let out a yell that scares some players. Also I don't think the Lakers should have to count on a 20 year old kid to be the tough guy, do you??
BD
Posted by: BD | July 14, 2008 at 01:14 PM
And if you'll also recall, Rick Fox once chased Doug Christie
down the halls and gave him a beatdown after both got ejected
from a pre-season game. Sometimes a little crazy toughness
can be a good thing - it plants the idea in the heads of the opponent
that you won't be walked over.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 12:00 PM
---------------------------
Please revisit the youtube posting I made earlier on another thread or go to youtube and you will see Fox got the worst end of the fight. More like christie put beatdown on Fox. but we will never know with all middle people trying to break up fight how it would have turned out one on one.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 14, 2008 at 01:25 PM
JLF,
>>>Sorry to disagree but 1-2 million is money under the cap.
Actually, it's much better to be 1-2 million OVER the salary cap
than 1-2 million under.
If you're 2 million under the salary cap, then the maximum
contract you can offer a free agent is 2 million.
If you're 2 million over the salary cap, then you can offer a
full MLE contract (almost 6 million this season).
You don't get the MLE if you're under the cap.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 01:00 PM
-----------------
Not if you sign a player to cotract to take you slightly over cap and then use MLE. Think creatively like Mitch did to get Pau by using Aaron Mckie in trade.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 14, 2008 at 01:31 PM
I been around for a long time, I 've played and watch tons of basketball. Personnaly if one man cause problem on a team, our team would take care of that. Now the facts are this guy the call odom is okay, but to play basketball and not have fire in you belly leave a lot to be desire. I can't understand for me it was always a challenge to play good and fight til the end and if you don't have that you will lose game that you should easly win. Lamar is a nice ball player, but people seem to get cough up with that fact you have a guy that is closer to 7 ft than 6" 7' and he get rebounds and have assist and you say that's what we need but, he doesn't work sometime you have to fight for all you get. What I mean by not working he might score 20 the next game the defense gets tough and he goes away that just weak. Boston just played a glorified Zone you take the ball to the middle and you beat the Zone but you have to take the shot, hit or miss take the shot Odom, pau did not take the shot. Michael did not win one chip without excellent ball player surrounding him and I don't care what anyone say. I followed Mike from the time when he was with NC and all his years in the league. I just think people on this blog have their personal reason or idea, but as for a Basketball it take a person going out fighting. Odom never does.
Posted by: Larry J. | July 14, 2008 at 01:34 PM
What happened to Sasha, no news yet?
If you were to ask AK, he would probably say Posey is holding up all the MLE money. Until he signs with a team, Sasha will just have to wait for his commitments.
I agree with that AK, but why not EVEN a rumor? Kwame has lots of rumors, but is there nothing for the Machine? It has to be a ego shrinker that nothing is floating around, not even on Hoopshype.
Posted by: Fatty | July 14, 2008 at 01:40 PM
Edwin & BD,
I agree with you about the Artest toughness thing.
When Garnett shoved Gasol to the ground and then drove
to the rim and dunked, Artest would go take a [cheap] shot on
Garnett next play.
When Posey took cheap shots after the whistle had blown on
every foul, Artest would have gone and punked him and stopped
that nonsense or at least called the refs attention to it more.
Basically, if a team is playing rough with you and getting
away with it and you let them, then they can keep doing
it the whole game. If someone goes up and gets in their
grill and shoves back, then maybe that person gets a T
called on them, but the refs generally start calling the game
closer after that to avoid fights.
So, let's say in the finals there's a play where a foul is called,
and after the whistle James Posey takes a cheap shot at Lamar
or Kobe. It happened plenty of times.
But if the first time it happened in the game, Kobe or Lamar
had gone over and started jawing at Posey and shoved him
back, then they get a T called, but after that Posey doesn't
get away with any more cheap shots after the whistle because
the refs are watching for it.
Same thing with Kevin Garnett holding on screens, or
throwing halfback blocks on screens. If the player he just
threw his shoulder into and knocked to the ground on a
screen gets up and shoves him back, then it calls attention
to Garnett as much as the other player.
Though the act of retaliation usually gets called for a foul
or a technical foul, it can cause the ref to focus more on
the players involved in the fracas, and thus the little incidental
cheap shots that were getting overlooked now get called.
Consider this idea: What if Phil had instructed Luke that
any time Garnett held him or body-checked him to the ground
on a screen that Luke should get up off the ground and go
foul Garnett hard, or if the play is stopped go get in his grill
and shove him hard or even throw a punch. Yes, Luke would
get a technical called on him, and might even get suspended
(which I'm sure most of you wouldn't have minded). But I don't
think Garnett is going to back down from Luke Walton, so there's
a chance Garnett swings back and gets himself suspended
as well. Or at least, people will be asking Luke why he took a
swing and Luke could say that KG grabbed his nuts, or something
like that.
Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but the next game, the refs are
going to be watching KG a little closer because they don't
want him grabbing anybody's nuts on a screen and starting
any fights. So suddenly, half of those "good screens" by KG
are called holding and KG is in constant foul trouble. Or he
stops holding on screens and Paul Pierce and Ray Allen
aren't quite so wide open all the time.
I know the refs are supposedly impartial, but if you call attention
to something, then they tend to watch it more closely and call
it more (remember Mark Cuban complaining about Shaq
stepping over the line on free throws?) Nothing calls attention
like starting a little tussle. And even if nothing comes of it,
the worst you got is you lost Luke for a game.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 01:43 PM
Fatty,
I've asked around a bit and nobody has heard a peep about Sasha's situation, whether with the Lakers or somebody else preparing to offer a sheet. Weird, but that's all I've (not) heard.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 14, 2008 at 01:54 PM
He's a great player, but anybody who thinks that Artest won't disrupt the purple and gold eventually is as crazy as he is.
Posted by: Michael A | July 14, 2008 at 02:00 PM
Edwin and Fatty...Thanks for the help and reply....
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 14, 2008 at 02:00 PM
No to Artest. The whole thing is one big ? mark. He should have opted out of his contract. Let him labor and suffer for 1 more season in Sacto and THEN he can come to us in 09/10.
As much as LO's mediocrity irks me, Ron-Bill's INSTABILITY scares me more!
Posted by: utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER | July 14, 2008 at 02:06 PM
Wow, one person makes a joke (partly?) in jest to LakerTom, Tom replies in a funny manner how he sees it and a bunch of reactionary folks jump all over Tom.
LakerTom is an institution here.
Your reactionary political views are not. Please go back to the freeconservatives.com echo chamber.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 14, 2008 at 02:09 PM
LTLF,
I totally agree with you about retaliating to physicality. You deal with a bully one of two ways, fight back or take it.
As for the trades you mentioned. They're interesting, complicated, and I don't see the one you like best happening, mainly because it puts Artest in Detroit where I sort of doubt he'd be welcome.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 14, 2008 at 02:15 PM
So I was thinking.... What if we don't trade for Ron Artest and we keep Odom.
How about James Posey? Any word on him yet. That would be a great backup behind Odom or Gasol.
But also, one other thing...Kwame Brown!
Sure, he wasn't the brightest offensive player in the game, but how about utilizing his big body on the defensive end. Specifically, backing up Bynum or Gasol.
I declare! Get POSEY and KWAME!
Go Lakers
Posted by: Ron | July 14, 2008 at 02:17 PM
Fatty,
I'm actually surprised that we haven't seen any news about
offers to Sasha as well. I feel sorry for Sasha's ego, but it
may actually make him cheap enough that the Lakers can
afford to re-sign him which would be a good thing.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 02:18 PM
From Hoopsworld:
Mid-Day Report: Artest in L.A. Bad Idea;
By: Jason Fleming; Last Updated: 7/14/08 3:11 PM ET
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Artest Wants Out: Ron Artest deciding he wants to be traded from the Sacramento Kings is not a surprise. It's all well and good that maybe he was surprised by the Kings lack of desire to talk contract extension and it may even be true he was misled by the Kings, told he was a piece of the future when really the Kings wanted him to not opt out so they could trade him for a piece that really will be.
We could also debate for hours whether Artest and his camp should have seen that coming, since it was clear to most neutral observers the Sacramento Kings were a better team without Artest on the floor.
But, that exact point about the Kings being better without Artest is the number one reason why the Los Angeles Lakers should not trade Lamar Odom for the league's most notorious villain. We can probably debate over way too many drinks at the local watering hole and for way too many hours which player – Odom or Artest – is the better player in a vacuum, but what cannot be debated is Artest is a horrible fit for the Los Angeles Lakers.
One of the key points of the Triangle Offense is ball movement. It depends on all players being able to move the ball, be that big men or point guards and everyone in between. Odom may never have lived up to the potential expected of him coming out of the 1999 NBA Draft, but he is still a very good player, a smart player, and an excellent passer from both forward positions. Obviously he isn't as good as a defender as Artest and that caused the Lakers some issues, but taking his passing skills out of that offense and replacing it with the black hole of Artest – who would repeatedly bog down the Kings offense while star shooter Kevin Martin was shut out – would be the worst decision any general manager could make this summer."
"Artest is a fantastic player and there are plenty of teams in the NBA he can help, but the Los Angeles Lakers are not one of them."
Well's that's certainly a no vote on Artest to the Lakers that should possibly be considered.
So what do you think folks?
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 14, 2008 at 02:20 PM
It would be TOTALLY ironic if the Clippers made a big front-loaded
offer to Igoudala. That would stick it to Philly, as they'd either
have to match it and use up all of their cap space and more
and pay more than they wanted to for Igoudala, or they lose
him to the team that they poached Brand from.
And the maximum karmic payback would be on Elton Brand,
who would lose the player who would have been his best
teammate on his new team. So he would go to a team that
would probably go back to sucking like the Clippers used
to. Of course David Falk would still get paid either way,
so the full karmic payback would be incomplete.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 02:23 PM
JLF,
>>>Not if you sign a player to cotract to take you slightly
>>>over cap and then use MLE.
It doesn't work that way. If you're under the cap you don't
get the MLE at all. You have to be over the cap in the first
place to get the MLE.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 02:25 PM
JLF,
>>>Think creatively like Mitch did to get Pau by
>>>using Aaron Mckie in trade.
McKie was a player that the Lakers still owned the rights to
(and in fact the early bird rights), so they could have signed
(and traded) him for any amount up to the MLE. I'm not sure
there's any player the Lakers currently hold the rights to that
they could viably do that with.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 14, 2008 at 02:27 PM
The Lake Show,
I missed your use of rotation versus roster.
I still guarantee you there's absolutely no way we're stuck with Vlad in thee rotation as our backup 4. Maybe against the Suns or Warriors, but they sort of don't count.
We get Ronny, Garbarosa, or Thomas/Abdur-Rahim. Maybe even someone else. Vlad might be 2nd in at 4 if we have an injury, however.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 14, 2008 at 02:32 PM
LoveThatLakeShow,
The writer assumes Artest is a ballhog and can't pass. Both assumptions are incorrect.
He also gives Odom too much credit.
With Phil running the show, the offensive flow will not get constipated. Anyone remember how fast Jimmy Jackson was tossed for stopping the offensive flow in the 05-06 playoffs? It was less than 30 seconds.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 14, 2008 at 02:34 PM
If Artest had opted out and gotten a MLE deal, he'd get paid considerably less over the next few years than if he was able to get himself traded.
Everyone wants him to declare his allegiance to us, but when that may cost him 4-6 million a year, that's kind of a lot to ask.
I mean, just think about his legal expenses!
Posted by: Benjamin | July 14, 2008 at 02:37 PM
sonnybelfast,
I just want to say that I appreciate your take on Thomas and Abdur-Rahim. You sound pretty reasonable about them.
Posted by: Benjamin | July 14, 2008 at 02:39 PM
I would absolutley LOVE IT if the Clippers went after Iguodala! Go Clippers, go! This isn't about getting somebody they want, this is PAYBACK! Come on, Clippers! Steal that Iguodala! Offer him a max contract! If Philly matches they'll be strapped for years.
###
"Although no formal offers have been made to Iguodala, he is considered one of the best available restricted free agents.
"That's a guy we have to have," said Brand, who repeated: "Management has let me know they'll match any offer."
Posted by: Kwaminus "Bill" Brownicus cracking his knuckles getting ready for a contract | July 14, 2008 at 02:53 PM
Benjamin,
My pleasure and thank you.
Sonnybelfast
Posted by: Sonnybelfast | July 14, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Just because some guy doesn't think Artest is good for the Triangle doesn't change my mind. I would countered with this paragraph from SI:
Artest might have his drawbacks, but there is no doubt about his ability to defend. The former Defensive Player of the Year also brings a bit of a mean streak that would make opponents think twice about taking any shots at Bryant. Throw in the fact that Artest is also a 20-point scorer, and it's easy to see why the Lakers might be interested.
Kobe needs a Body Guard. Artest will do.
Anyway I am sick of the Triangle...I want to see some Defense for a change. We have been harping about Defense on this blog for the last couple of years. PJ only cares about his Triangle...what a shame.
BD
Posted by: BD | July 14, 2008 at 02:59 PM
However BD,
I’m still waiting to hear your view as to what the Lakers should do about solidifying the PF position behind Gasol if they should trade away LO for Artest. Combined with Ronny leaving for the GSWs?.
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 14, 2008 at 03:17 PM
LovetheLakeShow,
I would get somebody on the cheap like Garbo or Thomas. Whoever it is they are not going to get a lot of minutes with AB and Pau at the 4 and 5. I just don't think we can pay someone like Turiaf at 17m for 4 years to play 10 minutes a game. Geez, Artest is strong enough he could play the 4 if needed..jk..I know you don't like the Artest trade but that is ok, your still a Laker Fan.
Tk Care.
BD
Posted by: BD | July 14, 2008 at 04:22 PM
Thanks BD;
But don’t misunderstand me. I’m all for trying Artest. Admittedly with some apprehension that he will keep his head on straight. I’ve placed the traditional complaints against Ron/Bill due to his infamous participation in the 2004/05 brawl long behind me.
And all these recent things such as becoming his own agent. Or wanting to change his name. Along with these strange and contradictory ramblings to the media, really don't concern me as long it does not translate into any odd or disruptive on behavior on the court, practice, or in the locker room.
I totally disagree with the previous writer from Hoopsworld referring to Artest as "evil." As the Lakers really don't need their players who are exemplary "do- gooders," going around helping little old ladies across the street or rescuing cats out of trees like overgrown eagle scouts.
I am personally tired of Lamar’s fade away games, and do not think he can play SF position. Since I do not think LO has the defensive quickness to stay with the league’s better SFs. Much less their premiere ones such as Paul Pierce. But even more importantly the 3 has to have the ability to shoot the ball from distance in order to properly spread the floor and prevent the opponent from simply sagging off and packing the lane. Thus crowding Gasol and Bynum down low.
However, I was still concerned about the loss of two “bigs” severely weakening the PF slot outside of Pau with the departure of both LO and Turiaf.
I just don’t want the proposed Artest trade to create any other problems with the roster elsewhere.
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 14, 2008 at 05:47 PM