Baron Davis back in L.A.
July 1, 2008 | 6:10
pm
This move may not make the Clippers instant contenders (although a core of Davis, a now presumed to be re-signed Elton Brand, Chris Kaman and Al Thornton is pretty talented), but should David Stern decide to award the Larry O'Brien to the team that produces the best film, the red, white and blue now have a serious leg up on the rest of the league.
AK
oh my God, UtaR contacted the agent for Kwame Brown:
"Obviously, he hasn't had great success yet but in the right situation it definitely could happen for him"
and... you know who else is available?
DEVEAN GEORGE!!! You mean... the Devean George who started for the Laker CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM? That Devean George? Ah... no.... no, no, no...
Posted by: Kwaminus Brownicas, Keeper of the Stone Hands, Protector of the Sublime Calves | July 02, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Ron Artest to the Lakers?
I knew that would get your attention. lol
But seriously, he would be a valuable addition this year, (he's not Kwame) and especially for his expiring contract.
If, and that's a big if, the Lakers could trade a contract or two to Sactown for Ron, it could really help Dr Buss in his lux penalties if we used Artest for the year and didn't sign him back.
But would the Maloofs help us? No
Would the Maloofs help our enemies like the Suns, Spurs, or Celtics? Yes
Would the Maloofs rather send Artest to a losing team for a better deal? Of course.
Sorry Ron Ron, you did make a mistake. You could've chosen a team of your liking by just taking a little less.
Does Fatty feel sorry for Artest? No.
Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 09:48 AM
bozz,
>>>“I think bynum doesnt deserve an 80m 5yr deal the most
>>>he deserve is 7 to 9m pr year. If his agent gets greedy
>>>trade him for marc gasol and two 1st round pick.”
>
>No offense, really, but have you lost your flippin’ mind?
>We’re talking about a possible top-3 center in the whole
>league,
Or possibly someone who can't stay healthy for more than half
a season.
>and you think he’s worth a hair above the money that
>we’re giving Luke per year? I’ll just pretend that you were
>kidding when you wrote that buddy.
Actually, the amount he stated was over double what they gave
Luke this year.
Make it Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay and two first round picks and
I'm on board. The Lakers made the finals this season without
Bynum. Gasol is tougher than his brother (though not quite
the offensive player), Rudy Gay will be an all-star, and those
could be two lottery picks.
But just to ease your mind, I'm hoping Bynum gets healthy,
stays healthy, averages 15 & 10 this season and EARNs that
max contract and gets it next summer. I really like the kid and
think he could be a great asset to the team. But I still see a chance
(maybe 20%) that his health problems are not just an anomaly.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 02, 2008 at 09:49 AM
Hey Jon K I don't think Paul Pierced gives a rats azz what you think. I suppose you respect the whiner Kobe. I just watched game 4 again and was reminded what a ref job that was. Needless to say, Kobe and the Lakers gott the call and he was still whining. Paul Pierce & company sucked it up and took care of business like CHAMPIONS. By the way it's always the most fun to beat the Lakers in the finals. The Celtics have done it 9 of 11 times. My favorite was 1969. With the baloons in the rafters at the forum, so cocky, so sweet to beat. You guys must get sick of loosing in the finals, what 15 times? I gues I'll take a ride to the Hall of Fame and check it out. By the way, in the name of my former neighbors, Dr. Naismith and Larry O'Brien, will you please get some Americans on your team? No wonder you can't win.
Posted by: Bear75233 | July 02, 2008 at 09:52 AM
Wasn't Marcelus the drug dealing pimp in Pulp Fiction?
Posted by: Bear75233 | July 02, 2008 at 09:54 AM
AK wrote:
“Fairweather Fatty,”
“Technically speaking, you're correct that the Clips could do a sign and trade with Maggette even after renouncing his rights, but not using an MLE (as you suggested) and not with their cap situation, assuming they resign Brand (which they are expected to). They'd be over the cap and can't make that deal. Basically, for their particular situation, as I understand it, what you're suggesting isn't doable.”
This is what I meant as well. I did not mean to imply that it was *impossible* to resign a formally renounced free agent. Had someone asked me that question specifically, I would have stated “I don’t know.” And would have to study the current CBA rules on that, if any.
But in context, I meant that when a team renounces a player as the Clippers intend to do in Magette’s case. It is normally to clear cap space in order sign other players such as Brand and Davis here. Therefore making that money unavailable for a possible sign-and-trade scenario with a renounced Magette which Fairweather Fatty suggests.
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 02, 2008 at 09:58 AM
I wonder if the Utah Jazz are pursuing Ronny Turiaf and Kwame Brown just to bring up the price of these players and in that way hurt the Lakers.
Hmmmm....
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 02, 2008 at 09:58 AM
FF,
Fair enough. You are correct that the Clippers could participate
in a sign and trade of a player they've waived.
It's also true that if Maggette definitely wants more than the MLE,
that Philadelphia, Memphis, or Golden State could sign and trade
Maggette to some other team.
But as to whether the Clippers will let Elton Brand go so they can
sign and trade Corey Magette, I don't think so at this point.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 02, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Fairweather Fatty,
Okay, I must have misunderstood the part about the MLE and Maggette. Sorry about that. But it's still a moot point, because the Clips, assuming they resign Brand, won't have the cap space needed to do a sign and trade with Maggette. I'm pretty sure you can't go over the cap to resign a guy whose rights were renounced, even if it's your own FA. Otherwise, there would be a lot more theoretical options for Maggette and everyone wouldn't be speculating him taking an MLE somewhere else.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 02, 2008 at 10:07 AM
LTLS
If that makes you feel good, whatever. lol
Peace
Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Ak
What's on the show today?
Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Kwaminus Brownicas, Keeper of the Stone Hands, Protector of the Sublime Calves,
Is Matt Barnes available? Dude plays good defense!
By the way, if we need a another long point guard, there's always Sun Yue and Shaun Livingston!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 02, 2008 at 10:14 AM
I don't think Kwame can hang under Sloan's Hard Nosed coaching.
Posted by: Charles | July 02, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Bear75233,
You are a Troll and I pity you and your pathetic life.
It must suck to have to wake up each day and live the life you have to live.
I pity you.
[End present and all future communications.]
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 02, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Edwin - I like your idea about Paul Millsap - I think he's just the kind of player we need to back up Pau at the 4. Unfortunately, I doubt that the Jazz will let him go.
All this talk about guys like Magette and Posey is fun and sometimes funny....but our most pressing need is an enforcer. Jackson himself said that it's the one thing he's been lacking in recent years.
Of course, it's not as entertaining to blog about utility bigs, undrafted players, second-rouders that won't make the cut, D-leaguers, etc., etc... but I've got to think that somewhere out there is another Paul Millsap... somebody that we can afford and that will do the hard work under the glass.
This is in no way a dispersion on Turief - I love the guy and hope he comes back. However, I remain convinced that we don't need another SF, SG or swingman. What we do need, is another big body.
Bring in a banger, please.
Posted by: dave m | July 02, 2008 at 10:17 AM
JonK "Mr. Starve the Trolls" is full of what's coming out of Shaq's azz.
Any negative comment about the Fakers or Wannabe Jordan (Kobeef) is perceived as hate mail or the blogger being a fool.
It's very obvious who's the fool in this circumstance.
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha!
"Top of the World" --Garnett after the thumping of the Fakers.
Posted by: Let's go C's! | July 02, 2008 at 10:26 AM
"Pig Miller"
>>>Sasha just doesn't seem to fit at 2/3. He's turnover prone
Okay, before this goes any further, I'll point out that Sasha is tied
with Derek Fisher for being the LEAST turnover prone player on
the Lakers. Javaris Crittenton was extremely turnover prone and
led the Lakers for the season in that category.
>>>and streaky,
Yep. Sasha is a streaky shooter. I won't deny that. But I should
point out that he shoots a lot higher percentage both overall
and on 3-pointers than Posey.
Sasha - 44% on 3's, 45% overall
Posey - 38% on 3's, 42% overall
Posey is a little streaky as well. It's not like he shoots exactly
42% in every game. He had 10 games last season where he
couldn't hit a shot. That only happened to Sasha 4 times.
>>>with some pestering, but not fundamentally sound
>>>defense.
I would say not consistently fundamentally sound defense.
Sometimes Sasha plays hard and sticks to his man like glue
and does a good job. But Sasha has that "European soccer
player" mentality, where every time someone shoves him or
sets a hard screen, he goes down in dramatic fashion. It
does draw some offensive foul calls, but sometimes it gets
ignored and he ends up leaving his player wide open.
If he could keep the flop count to a minimum, Sasha's defense
would be more consistently sound.
But not quite as good as Posey's defense.
>>I think Posey is a better fit and brings some of the
>>toughness the Lakers lack.
Posey reminds me of Rick Fox in more than one way. He can
hit the 3-pointer pretty well (not as well as Sasha, but pretty
well). He's a hardnosed defender who never gives up on a
play. And he always looks like he's trying to pick a fight. Any
time a foul gets called, you see Posey taking a cheap shot on
whoever he's guarding after the whistle blows. Since there's
already a foul, they're usually not going to call a little extra shove
or grab, and it gets into the opposing player's head.
One of my favorite moments of the whole finals, was when
Jordan Farmarr got a defensive rebound and PJ Brown just
started hacking at him trying to steal the ball. He hit Jordan
about 3 or 4 times even after the whistle blew, but Jordan
wouldn't give up the ball. Eventually, Jordan stepped to him
like he was ready to take down PJ (watching the replay, I
think he was screaming "motherf****er" as he was walking
towards him.
ALL the Lakers need to have that sort of "don't back down"
mentality. Game 6 is where it really showed. The Celtics played
strong aggressive intimidating defense and one by one the Lakers
started getting passive. Posey would add someone who would
never back down.
But I'd prefer to keep BOTH Sasha and Posey.
Sasha has improved his shooting EVERY YEAR that he's been
in the league. He's already the 8th best 3-point shooter in the
league, and if he works hard again this off season, he could
be in the top 10 in the league in 3-point shooting for years to
come. And maybe Posey could teach him some of that toughness,
and tell him that real men don't flop.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 02, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Fairweather Fatty,
Technically speaking, you're correct that the Clips could do a sign and trade with Maggette even after renouncing his rights, but not using an MLE (as you suggested) and not with their cap situation, assuming they resign Brand (which they are expected to). They'd be over the cap and can't make that deal. Basically, for their particular situation, as I understand it, what you're suggesting isn't doable.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 02, 2008 at 08:53 AM
---------------------------------
AK
Please explain that one. Since Brand is a Clipper FA and has Bird rights the clippers can sign him to as much as they want with out hitting cap space. Luxury tax would take hit. So what is not doable?
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 02, 2008 at 10:34 AM
>>>Lakers cant sign any free agents without a sign and trade
>>>due to salary reasons.. is this being discussed?
Yes they can. They have all their exceptions - the MLE, the
Bi-annual exception, and they could offer the veterans minimum
to as many players as they want.
Note that any salary the Lakers add at this point is doubled. If
they offer someone 6 million, it will cost them 12.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 02, 2008 at 10:35 AM
How do you like this idea (it's wacky, so I'll probably take flak for
it, but it's just an amusing idea I had).
How about if the Lakers sign and trade Corey Maggette for the
full MLE to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao. Lakers get a tough
front court defender who doesn't want to be in Cleveland. Cavs
get a scorer to play with LeBronze.
What do you think.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 02, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Ak
I don't pretend for a moment to understand the CBA rules.
I do have a thought to consider on sign and trades.
When Dr. Buss was lamenting last year that we could lose Kobe if he opts. he stated, "Its not all lost if he goes, we could still get someone back in a sign and trade."
So Dr Buss's understanding of the sign and trade rules is a team over the salary cap can still do sign and trades.
Maggette sign and trade. One article (of the many) mentioned a Mag sign and trade possiblity.
Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 10:40 AM
LTLF
"But I'd prefer to keep BOTH Sasha and Posey."
So would I. But how would minutes be distributed?
AK even suggested earlier that might be one of the players Lakers could go out on a 'lux tax MLE hit' to get.
But I think you said earlier if we did sign both, someone would have to be traded out to clear salary? Which is true of course.
Are we (bloggers, posters, commenters) making Mitch's job more complicated than it has to be, to appease our wishes?lol
Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Long Time Laker Fan,
Sorry, I took Luke's $30 million and divided it by the years. I'm kind of an averages geek like that, I guess I didn't look at the year-by-year numbers. My bad. Still, you have to agree that AB is worth a hell of a lot more than Luke, and that his impact in the short time that he was on the court was greater than any that Luke made this year. Not to rag on Luke, but AB is clearly a bigger part in our future.
Thanks for the correction.
-bozz-
Posted by: bozz | July 02, 2008 at 11:18 AM
No pity needed, Jon K. I've witnessed more Celtic Championships in my lifetime than you are likely ever to see from the Lakers.
Look, up to the peak of the mountain, the pinnacle, who is it? It's the 17 time Champion Boston Celtics and their fans.
Posted by: Bear75233 | July 02, 2008 at 11:32 AM
You Fakers are soooooo lame.
Please tell me what big time free agent has joined the Kobe Fakers? Vlade Divac? Vlade Radmanovic?
hahahahahaah
Sucks!
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Posted by: Let's go C's! | July 02, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Fairweather Fatty;
It’s not about what makes me feel “good” or “bad” either way. As though this is an attempt at spin control or trying to save face for an error on my part as you seem to imply here.
When I made my initial statement earlier about the Clippers not being able to do a sign-and-trade with Magette after renouncing his rights in post 7/1/08 @8:37 PM . I truly made it under the assumption that the Clippers, or practically any other team for that matter, would do so for the purpose of using the cleared cap space to sign other players such Davis and Brand in this instance.
Therefore, making those funds now unavailable for any sign-and-trade with a formally renounced FA.
And not because I thought it was *impossible* to resign a renounced FA under any circumstance. On that issue, I simply didn’t know until you pointed out the specific CBA rule.
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 02, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Fatty,
The Clippers can't do a sign-and-trade with Maggette anymore because they're going to have to renounce his rights so they would have the available cap space to sign Baron Davis. Once you renounce his rights, you lose the Bird Rights that come with it.
Posted by: Xodus | July 02, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Long Time Laker Fan wrote:
“How do you like this idea (it's wacky, so I'll probably take flak for
it, but it's just an amusing idea I had).”
“How about if the Lakers sign and trade Corey Maggette for the
full MLE to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao. Lakers get a tough
front court defender who doesn't want to be in Cleveland. Cavs
get a scorer to play with LeBronze.”
“What do you think.”
I don’t think you are allowed to do sign-and-trades with the player signed to the MLE. But don’t quote me for certainty on it. As the CBA rules are quite complicated to say the least.
Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 02, 2008 at 12:32 PM
LTLF,
I will have to say NO to Verajao. If we are in search of a "banger" to toughen up our defense, especially interior defense, then he is not the answer. Any big man who flops on Tony Parker is not tough. If you want rebounds, maybe consider him, but I don't see him being any tougher in the lane than Gasol.
Posted by: JSNV | July 02, 2008 at 01:15 PM
Bear75233,
Glad to see some "classier" gloating from a Celtics fan. I'm sure you will be reliving Game 4 and Game 6 every day this summer, as you should. So how why don't you, "in the name of your former neighbors, Dr. Naismith and Larry O'Brien," watch the Finals from the previous 20 years since you happen to love this American Game??!! Would it be because your team isn't a participant? I think I'll rewatch Game 4 of the 2001 Finals, Game 7 of the 1988 Finals, or even Game 1 of the 1991 Finals. The Lakers may have lost more Finals, but it sure beats not seeing your team in the Finals, or even the playoffs for that matter!! The 08 Celtics were good, not great; at least not yet. As far as I'm concerned, they still have to prove themselves better than the 06 Heat. Look at where that team is now; where the Celtics were this time last year!!
And which Americans were you thinking of that would make our team win? The Americans from Celtics that are representing our country in the 08 Olympics? The Americans from the last Olympics? Or did you mean the Americans from the 06 FIBA World Championships? Your sense of history is way too selective as you revel in the past (1969? I wasn't even born yet) and 2008. This is an International Sport buddy, but we'll show the world that we can still dominate it, espicially now that your favorite and mine, Kobe Bryant, is on the team. Try not to let your fellow AMERICAN neighbors hear you boo Kobe in the USA uniform, it's not very patriotic.
Posted by: JSNV | July 02, 2008 at 01:41 PM
Just keep starving...
Just keep starving...
I know the temptation to wound is great. Yeah it hurts to hear Celtic fans tell us we suck. Yeah it's ridiculous to hear fans of teams who couldn't get out of the first round on account of 3 pointers from Tim Duncan tell us we suck, but just keep starving.
Adversity buids character.
What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.
JUST KEEP STARVING!
Posted by: utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER | July 02, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Exodus
There is some expected confusion on the sign and trade rule.
From Larry Coon's CBA Rule handbook.
76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
.......A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players who have been renounced, but cannot be made when the player is signed using the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual or Disabled Player exceptions. Sign-and-trade contracts must be for three years or longer, but only the first season of the contract must be guaranteed.
Posted by: Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 02:20 PM
LTLF
"But I'd prefer to keep BOTH Sasha and Posey."
So would I. But how would minutes be distributed?
AK even suggested earlier that might be one of the players Lakers could go out on a 'lux tax MLE hit' to get.
But I think you said earlier if we did sign both, someone would have to be traded out to clear salary? Which is true of course.
Are we (bloggers, posters, commenters) making Mitch's job more complicated than it has to be, to appease our wishes?lol
Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | July 02, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Keeping both technically woul not be a problem pt wise. Posey is a foward and Sasha is a guard.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | July 02, 2008 at 05:23 PM
Thank you for this POST LakerTom
Ain't no way we can move these 2 deadweights.
We can't even package them with Lamar.
It would have to be Pau.
Perhaps we could have shipped one with Pau to Golden State for Baron but that couldn't happen cause Baron is free as a bird and if it was sign and trade, Baron would have wanted about 80 million.
Tempting but ummmm, don't know
Baron clearly has more of that tough hunger warrior thing we need than Pau and I don't care about the size difference.
Bynum and Odom can play 5 and 4.
Posted by: Lakerbake | July 04, 2008 at 07:48 PM