Laker Tom,

Agreed. Ding How is just "that guy."

Wow this thread has taken some interesting turns.

A serious examination of Ding How. My take is that he's a very weird, very antiquated flavor of racist stand up poster until proven otherwise. Normally posters try to get a reaction and make people mad or look incredibly stupid. This guy is something else entirely. In this case, it's not very obvious comedy and it's not obvious trolling. Just a whole other species.

Coby Karl will become as useful as Sasha? Are we so strapped for cash that we want to take that chance for 2M? I think it also takes time which doesn't seem like the thing to screw around with given our big payroll and desire to win now.

I think we should offer Sasha something like 4.5M average contract, back-loaded with incentives fro 5 years. 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7 with unlikely defensive incentives and Finals appearance incentives. In doing so we can minimize what we pay him while still giving Sasha and Pelinka a small sense of victory.

Charles,

I think we should sign Elton Brown. There was hype about him when we drafted him and it sounds like he's been very productive in the mean time. Good catch!

Mike T,

Interesting article related to HIPAA. I think you're probably reaching a little tying it into Bynum's case, but it's pretty understandable given how mysterious and surprising that injury has gone down. Good catch with the qualifying offer counting against the cap too.

LTLF,

You know I respect you a lot, but I think you're nuts if you want Ben Gordon on this team. Gordon's defense is weak and he can't play the 1 or 3. What are we going to do with the guy? And Deng had a bad season. It's really hard to tell for me if the guy's all potential and hype or the real deal.

Now Hinrich, we could use. How about Odom and Farmar for Hinrich and Deng if that works or add filler if we need to do so. Looked it up and Deng doesn't currently have a contract. Maybe we could get Deng for 7-8M? That would increase our luxury tax woes, but a depth chart of

PG Hinrich Fisher Yue
SG Kobe Sasha? Karl
SF Deng Ariza Rad Walton
PF Gasol Rad Brown
C Bynum Mihm Mbenga

would be pretty nice.

There's a huge problem here with Walton and Rad though. We paid them. They're hard to move. The FO is going to want to use them even if it doesn't make sense. The only way it works out is if we waive them, pay them some of it (maybe 1/2 their contracts which count double since we're going to be over the luxury tax) so they can play elsewhere for cheaper. I don't think the FO is prepared to do that yet.

I think it's a move wer're going to have to do eventually because given our team now, our contracts then were mistakes. At the time as LTLF does a nice job pointing out it did make sense.

I think our goal needs to be a few things:

1. Point guard development for the next few years, especially thinking about post-Fisher.
2. Improvement on D generally, on toughness and experience.
3. Improved play at the 3, particularly on defense.
4. A replacement for Turiaf at the 4. We're fine at the 5 if Mihm does what we expect.
5. Resign Sasha.

Ideally, we want to perform the above goals while minimizing personnel changes and cost to us. We also want to do so with the youngest possible players that we can have in place for years.

I would like us to get rid of Vlad before the season is over. If you don't try on D in the Finals, you shouldn't get to stay on the team. Buy him out for half his contract. I realize that will cost us 2.5M X 3. It will also save us 2.5M X3 X2 because of the luxury tax.

I'd like a move made for a better SF. I want Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, Ron Artest, or Shane Battier. I think Shane Battier fits our needs the best due to his 3-point shooting, cheapness and his known stability (both mentally and physically). Smith can be a pain in the ass. Artest is nutty. Wallace is injury-prone. Battier can do less than any of these other guys, but that's totally fine. He does exactly what we need him to do and can probably be had the cheapest among these guys.

If we can find a way to get Tayshaun on the Rockets, that should pave the way for us to get Battier.

If we get a solid enough guy at the 4 (a banger), we should be cool. If we lose both Rad and Odom, I think we will need two such guys.

Jon K,

>>>I don't know if Coby Karl's defense is as good as Sasha's.

Okay, I have to get off my butt and capture a clip from the
summer league.

Basically, it shows Coby Karl blocking an OJ Mayo jump shot
then going down to the other end of the floor and lobbing an
alley-oop.

Sasha is better at this point, but I think Karl could be just as good.
Maybe even by next season's playoffs. Improving in the NBA
requires that you actually play in the NBA. Sasha had to
play some minutes to get to his current level of performance.
Coby has only been given scraps of minutes here and there.

One thing you have to remember is that before last season,
the Lakers weren't nearly as good as they were last year.
Sasha often shared the floor with guys like Brian Cook and
Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. And that's if he was
playing with the STARTERS. So if the team started
to slip, they'd put Kobe back on the floor and Kobe would
carry the team for awhile.

Coby Karl will have the advantage of playing with a much
stronger "bench mob: - Farmar, Luke, maybe even Lamar.
And when he's playing with the starters, it'll be guys like
Bynum and Gasol instead of Kwame and Cook.

It's a lot easier to play well when you're surrounded by
good players. And even if you don't play too well, they can
carry you if you're not completely incompetent.

Some of this talk is unreal. People here actually say that Sasha should not be paid $5 million a year lest he become another Luke or Vlad, then go on to say that Coby Karl can easily replace Sasha.

Sasha is no Luke or Vlad. Sasha has done what neither Vlad nor Luke did before signing their contracts: prove their worth to the Lakers. Sasha was the Lakers best player off the bench and the best shooter on the whole roster. Luke and Vlad were never (and will never be) either of those things.

Coby is no Sasha. Coby Karl was in street clothes most of this year. How in the world people can think that a kid can go from the inactive list to the Laker's first shooter off the bench is absurd.

So far, this offseason has been terrible. The obvious (in my view) need to trade Lamar for Artest has not happened, the Lakers have lost their only reserve power forward, and now may be on the verge of losing their best shooter and best bench player. If it plays out this way, you can expect to see 82 games against zone defenses next year, with Kobe jacking up double digit 3's on a nightly basis. Nice work, Mitch.

Benny Blanca,

>>>>> On another note, i hope both LO and Kobe see how hard it is to keep a team
>>>>>together with the cap where it is. Both guys have an opportunity to spread
>>>>>and share the wealth with their teammates next summer. I'd like to think those
>>>>>two could take a pay cut to facilitate team success.

I second that motion, Benny. I actually think Kobe will end up opting out after the end of next year so that he can sign a new longer cap-friendlier contract with the Lakers. I also think that Lamar would be willing to also sign for less to keep the team together.

It’s either than or we end up having to mimic the Celtics plan of stocking the rear half of the roster with other team’s retreads playing for the veteran’s minimum. LOL.

Tom

For years we've been talking about players needing to re-dedicate or dedicate themselves to defense.

Sasha did that. The man has a fan club for crying out loud. Lest we forget his clutchness. 60% 3 point shooting a couple of years ago IN the playoffs, tack on this year?

He deserves to be a laker.

Go Lakers!

OMG,

Shane Battier only costs 6.3M.

Any news on Shaun Livingston? He could be useful pick up.

I think anyone who is predicting that Coby Karl will have break out year and contribute as much as Sasha did last year is deluding themselves.

What are you basing this on? His wind sprints? He didn't wow anyone with his D-league play, or his summer league play and I remeber going to the Long Beach Pyramid and watching Devean George dominate Bonzi Wells in a Summer League game.

I wouldn't touch Devean George with a 10 foot pole now.

It takes years for most players to even start to impact the NBA landscape, this is due to an adjustment in the length of the season, the physical nature of the NBA game and the fact that ref's make calls on a slide ruler (stars get calls, nobodies don't).

Sasha just entered into his "Gets some calls" phase of his NBA career. He has just adjusted to the length and physicallity of the NBA season. This is why Farmar struggled near the end of the year again, it seemed like Phil played him less towards the end of the regular season because he looked pretty wiped out.

That being said, Coby Karl will not have a break out year. I think if he played 10-15 mpg, he'd be lucky to shoot 40%, total. His defence will be a liability. He's never won at any level. Why does this make him a significant contributor to our team, potentially?

Anyone?

Re-sign Sasha and we contend.
Rebuild and watch the drama REALLY unfold next summer.

Imagine this scenario: We lose our free agents this year, finish 3-5th in the WC lose in the first two rounds.

Kobe opts out.
Lamar heads east.
Fish retires.
Farmar signs elsewhere.
Who does that leave us with?
As of now, Pau Gasol, and we saw how well a team built around him did.

Re-sign Sasha so that we stay competitive until we lock Kobe up for his career.

Or next summer wil be disastrous.

Posted by: Jamie Sweet | July 25, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Best post so far (LTLF/Laker Tom: please take note).

Sasha=DFish.

Remember when DFish left? It felt like there was something missing in our team. A void.

I don't mean Sasha is that "leader" DFish is...he's not. But he is (much like Fish was back then) a valuable role player. Something that is vital to a championship team. And as we saw in 04, role players aren't necssarily replaceable/reversable.

DFish was also the third best scorer in our 3 peat team...much lke Sasha has shown at times this year.

Please don't let Sasha go. Don't compound a mistake by making another one. Find a way to lose the stiffs, retain Sasha. I have faith.

Andrew Z -

That's exactly my point (if you would have quoted more of my previous post) about learning and paying your dues. Sasha toiled away for 3 years at the end of the bench before he finally broke through.

Karl has had one year as a rookie, most of which was spent in the D-League. I'm not saying he can't pull a Sasha and become effective someday or that he can't be like any of the D-Leaguers I listed that became helpful contributers. I'm saying it's a really good chance he can't do it right away, this year, because it almost never happens that quickly.

Jordan Farmar did it when he went from D-League/NBA rookie to huge contributer, but he's the exception, not the rule. Plus, he was a 1st round draft pick and the Lakers knew he was talented. Karl is an undrafted kid who we just don't have time to experiment with next year. If he proves something in practice, give him some garbage time. If he proves something in garbage time, give him some real minutes. If he proves something there, increase his minutes. But you don't just go from never playing to filling in as the 6th man role overnight. There's no logical reason to put that kind of trust in Karl.

I still trust the Lakers will do the right thing here, even if I don't agree with it initially. I'm just getting a bad feeling about this whole Sasha thing.

I agree that it is important that we resign Sasha, more important than resigning Turiaf, but Laker fans in general overexaggerate all these things. I don't think Kobe will want out if we lose both Sasha and Ronny and if we struggle at times next year. I think he learned his lesson this past season to shut up and play and not be the GM. Where else would he go where they would not have to gut their roster to get him and sacrifice that team's own chances of winning. Kobe knows this. Yes they have some bad contracts Walton, Vlad, and Lamar but every team in the league has 3 or 4 bad contracts. It something every team in the league has to deal with due to restricted and unrestricted free agency and luxury taxes, etc. Now if Kobe wants to opt out when he has the chance that is something different but I don't see him forcing a trade again. Sometimes as fans we need to step back and try to understand the finances of the game, especially when discussing possible trades and free agent signings. Not every trade or signing is possible because of salary caps even if it seems great on paper and realistic it may not be realistic at all and has no chance of becoming reality. Thinking on those terms like a GM or Owner rather than a fan would you really pay 17Mil for Turiaf when at best he gets 10-15 minutes a game and you already have Bynum, Gasol, Odom, and Mihm with bigger contracts and set playing times. Is Sasha really worth 5 mil on the open market? Maybe, but do you want to pay that much when you are already over the luxury tax limit paying top dollars to Kobe and Gasol and pretty soon Bynum. Winning at any costs is important but do you jeopardize future chances at winning for immediate results. Look at Miami they sold their soul in 2004 for one ring in 2006 and where are they now? Would we want the Lakers in lotto land in 5 years for big, overpaid contracts to win now? These are things we as fans have to take into consideration and put on our GM hats to go along with our fan hearts. Don't get me wrong I want Sasha back too and would hate to see him bounce to Europe, but I'am just saying...

humanomaly,

>>>>>Oh, absolutely agreed, 100% Chinese here...and I guess he is a mystery
>>>>>until the season becomes a wash and then we'll have time to play detective.....
>>>>>have a great day, and all is good.

Ironically, I grew up in the back rooms of my father’s many Chinese restaurants all over Southern Wisconsin and Northern Illinois so I have a real feel for what it must be like for Ding How in Prattville, whether he is a real poster or not. LOL

When we win the championship next year, we’ll put Ding How to the test by requesting a free Chinese banquet for all Lakers Blogs posters, including round trip travel. And Ding How talks like my dad does when he ties to talk a cop out of giving him another speeding ticket, what he calls his Hop Sing mode: the old “No speakee English” card. LOL.

Tom

Benjamin,

If all it takes to get Smith is 3 mil, Denver will match it. Without question. Remember, he's a restricted FA.

AK

I hate doing this, but I'll engage.

Mike T.

"Working for the Lakers team doctors and was cleared for everything,"

His clearance to participate in all activity, coming via team doctors, is a clear statement of health. They are permitted to release that type of information. It's not specific, and hence is not in violation of HIPPA. You are extrapolating wild ideas about Bynum's health because of your deep seeded loathing that he somehow took the job from Kwame Brown unjustly. I understand that you think you're smarter than everyone else, but you don;t need to try and insult anyone who doesn't agree with you.

You've clearly ignored the facts in favor of your own wildly contrived conspiracy theories.

A troglodyte you are sir.

Benjamin,

>>>Now Hinrich, we could use. How about Odom and
>>>Farmar for Hinrich and Deng if that works or add filler if
>>>we need to do so.

It would take a lot of filler.

>>>Looked it up and Deng doesn't currently have a contract.
>>>Maybe we could get Deng for 7-8M?

LOL. The reason Deng isn't currently signed is that Chicago
is offering him something like 10 and he wants something
like 13. Last summer he turned down a 60 million over 5 years
extension.

JJ,

Welcome back. Excellent points about Kwame. Couldn’t agree more. Looking to see you around more often. Thanks for the post.

Tom

>>>Remember when DFish left? It felt like there was
>>>something missing in our team. A void.

That void was Shaq. When someone with their own gravitational
field leaves a team, you feel a void.

Jon K,

Coby played well in Summer League. And yes, I know it doesn't
mean that much, as it's only summer league.

But he usually guarded the opposing team's best or second best
player and contained them fairly well.

For example, Coby guarded Aaron Afflalo when they
played Detroit and held him to 15 points on 42% shooting.
In his next two games, Afflalo averaged 21.5 points on
59% shooting.

When they played Memphis, Coby guarded OJ Mayo most
of the time. Mayo kinda went off in the 3rd quarter, but for
the whole game Coby held him to 15 points. Mayo averaged
almost 19 points per game.

Against the Sixers, Coby mostly guarded Thaddeus Young.
Young scored 16 points against Coby, but averaged 19 for
the whole Summer League.

So, like I said, he wasn't locking anyone down or anything,
but he defended most of the "name" players in the summer
league pretty well. Nobody turned in a 30 point game on him.

On the offensive side, Coby usually ran the team, bringing
the ball up and initiating the offense. He led the team
in scoring but shot a pretty low percentage overall. In
a way, he reminded me of Farmar in last year's SPL. He
was out there playing the triangle and the short timers
they had filling out the roster were mostly playing the square
or the octagon or the dodecahedron, so it made him look
less effective than he would playing with good players who
know the triangle.

Coby was clearly the best player on the floor for the Lakers,
but that's not saying much. He played well enough to get
some press from NBA.com, but probably not well enough
that there are teams calling Mitch asking to trade for him.

I think Coby needs a bunch of minutes to get to where Sasha
was last season, but I definitely think he could get there.

LTLF, I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with both concepts.

With respect to Coby Karl, there is simply no reason for anyone to place their confidence in Coby at this point. What is the basis for thinking that a kid who was lucky to make the team last year and who got no playing time is capable of providing 80% of Sasha's performance? Next to Kobe Bryant, is there another Laker player you would be more confident in if the game came down to a last second shot?

It seems to me that many here do not appreciate what Sasha did last year, especially for such an incredibly young player. I'm hard pressed to think of a better shooter on any Laker team in the last two decades. A starting lineup that includes Lamar Odom as a small forward is going to pose almost no threat at all from the outside if the Lakers don't have a serious shooter on the floor--and Karl is completely and totally unproven in that role, and anyone who thinks that he will fill that role is making a huge gamble.

As for the payroll issue, you don't put yourself on the doorstep of a championship, then let your team weaken by losing your best shooter and reserve player because of stupid contract decisions in the past. Nexty year Odom comes off the books, Mihm comes off the books, and the salary cap will increase again. It just makes no sense at all to sacrifice a tremendous young player like Sasha (this is not an old James Posey we're talking about, this is a 24 year old with a great stroke and fantastic confidence).

Were I Sasha and the Lakers were making the argument that I'm hearing on this board, next year I'd be playing for the Clippers (as a starter) or cashing my checks in Euros. A 24 year old is not going to (nor should he) vaule a chance to play for a championship over the chance to sign a big contract. At 24, Sasha will be convinced that he will have many more opportunities to play for a championship down the road (7 years from now he'll be Posey's age and he can hook up with a contender at that time if he needs to scratch that itch).

Long Time,

"should point out that the last Democratic administration was the first administration since Carter to balance a budget.

It's the Republicans who gave us a 9 trillion dollar national
debt, not the Democrats."

Of course, the balanced budget was with a Republican controlled Congress, and the debt with a Democratic controlled Congress.

What "pork belly project for an oil company" would that be?

No, Laker Tom, I don't. The items your price range could fit within that I can think of would be Social Security, Medicare, welfare, the military, but none of them could be described as a pork belly project for an oil company.

Tom,

Chinese restaurants in my family as well, I did notice when I told him to mind his grammar, that it improved almost incredibly, so that's a giveaway, like the buffet we'll "fast" at...ever since owning one, I can't eat in one!!!!!