bozz,

"Rocket Man!" I love it! Yes!

GO LAKERS!

Glad some of the conversation has turned to the 3.

To get WAAAAAAY ahead of ourselves, the question is, can the Lakers beat Boston with this lineup? Playing in the East, they'll have the best shot at home court again.

Can LO stop Pierce on the perimeter? Can Lamar space the floor on offense with Pau and Andrew on the block?

Odds are we're going to get the chance to find out.

Richtown,

"AK/BK, There have been "rumors" going around for a possible thomas/deng sign and trade for LO. Do you think that works for both teams? AS much as I like LO and would first like to see odom,bynum,and gasol on the floor at the same time next season- that trade option dosent sound to bad."

I've only heard of this in the vaguest of rumors floated without much sourcing, even unnamed, involved. Thus, I'm not giving it too much credence for the time being. For starters, it seems like an awful lot for Chicago to give up for LO, even taking into the account the value of a big expiring deal.

Also keep in mind that this trade won't happen unless the Lakers are willing to bring in Deng long term, which is a pretty big commitment. Not that it would never happen, but still, something to think about. And outside of potential defensive purposes, when it comes to the main concern about LO at the 3 (being unable to stretch the D with outside shooting), Deng isn't much better of an option. He rarely, if ever, takes 3's and his outside range, from what I've seen, isn't tons better than LO's.

For the time being, I'm not getting too wrapped up in this one.

AK

All this talk about who will play PF

People, we had a really good PF with a lot of upside, but we gave him away for nothing.

And I'm being asked to keep the faith in management here?

Listen, if "luck" didn't happen last season (Fisher, Gasol) then the result would be Kobe getting traded right now.

Who will play PF? Yep, Lamar. Some Gasol. Who knows how that will work, but I'll tell you this much

If you want Kwame back, you're asking for serious trouble.

You seem to think he'll get the vet minimum and just sit the bench. NO WAY.
That would be like Luke Walton sitting the bench.

Not going to happen while PJ is around. Kwame would be getting heavy minutes and bringing that negative lenovo to the bench crew... a crew that no longer has the defense of Turiaf.

did you guys actually spend the night discussing trade scenarios for Okafor???

Hello???

That is just so off the wall bizarre... might as well discuss getting Ray Allen to back up Kobe... makes as much sense...

Semper Fidelis

Fire 32 confessed that he was posting as Butler.

Jon K.,

This season was definitely a massive improvement with many exorcised demons. I think good management wouldn't have let things get so out of hand.

Kiwi,

I think you overlooked the majority of my points. I didn't bring up lame deals that the Lakers didn't make that they weren't supposed to make. You'll notice I specifically didn't mention Jermaine O'Neal or Jason Kidd. In both deals the other teams asked for a little too much. In each deal we would have given up all of our trading pieces.

I think the worst thing that Lakers did was mishandle Kobe. There were serious trade deals involving bringing in Ben Wallace and Ron Artest for Kobe. That's how bad it was. It seemed pretty obvious that Kobe was unsatisfied and was complaining quietly behind the scenes long before the management decided to act.

With Kwame you're ignoring two things.

1. The deal could have been made earlier.
2. The deal only occurred by Mitch Kupchak's explicit declaration to the media because Bynum got hurt and we needed a guy to help this season. That's sort of backward logic for a guy that's been doing glacier speed moves to improve the team. Take on a 15M a year contract (with 3 1/2 seasons left) for a single season? That doesn't make any sense at all. Either Kupchak misspoke (which seems like the last thing in the world Sir Corporate would do publicly) or he's not terribly bright.
3. If you're going to make a move, it's always better to do it sooner. Give your guys as much time to gel together as possible. The hardest thing to do in this NBA seems to get the pieces with a close second being getting a coach that can produce. After that, the team needs to evolve together and that part takes time only after everything else is in place.

I'm not going to go into further detail with the rest of my points because I don't get the sense you gave my argument a serious look the first time. I hope this time you can appreciate what at least I believe are serious mistakes made by our management. Some mistakes I accept. Neither of the mistakes above are acceptable to me. I don't see other teams that are interested in contending for championships with money to spend making them.

I don't expect you to agree with me. I enjoy having a unique viewpoint and am more like to share my unique viewpoints because I think it's better for discussion and it's something I can add rather than create an echo chamber. But, I would appreciate you at least considering the merits of my viewpoint and not flippantly tossing it aside with pedestrian counter-arguments of only selected points.

I'm sure you're often happier with those rose-colored glasses, but I bet you're a lot more disappointed and surprised by what happens than I am.

There are obviously benefits to either approach. You probably like to feel good about things. I obviously don't like to set myself up for disappointment.

Championship Odds

btw, the Lakers are the odds on favorite to win the championship this coming season and that's without Drew's health being completely certain.

http://tinyurl.com/5u3jju

bozz - reclaiming slav, the ukranian shooting 'bot would be priceless... unfortunately his back never fully recovered... he supposedly turned down some euro offers after atlanta. he needs to do some mind-healing on that spine and come back west... a lakers nation turns its lonely eyes to the loquacious one.

Giantsquid,

"I didn't put Drew down. He was great last year and improved almost daily once he was a starter. I'm just not ready to compare him to the all-time greats yet. I may be by mid-season though"

I think those were very fair remarks for Drew and I hope the Drew people will understand why he is not yet as great as Mikan-Wilt-Kareem-Shaq. What we saw was a good first half with those dunks, blocks and good free %. We want to see consistency on the floor for 82 games and also 20 playoff games. That's the Laker standard. Unless and until we see exceptional talents unscatched, uninjured, unperturbed by all the intrigues and wranglings then, we cannot address greatness and fool proof optimism. Don't be carried with wild speculations and rosy projections unless they are backed up by facts. The fact of the matter, we need Andrew to give the Lakers a Championship, then we will include him as one of the Laker great centers that played the game.

Dave M,

" reclaiming slav, the ukranian shooting 'bot would be priceless... unfortunately his back never fully recovered... he supposedly turned down some euro offers after atlanta. he needs to do some mind-healing on that spine and come back west... a lakers nation turns its lonely eyes to the loquacious one. "

I'd be lying if I claimed that Slava being referred to as "the loquacious one" wasn't pure genius. Kudos.

AK

Not One Offseason Move Made Yet

Noone expected the Lakers to make a lot of moves this offseason, after reaching the NBA Finals and getting Andrew Bynum back from an injury for next season.

But no moves?

I am confident they'll sign Sasha.

But they've lost Turiaf and haven't replaced him. Nor have they made any moves to improve anywhere.

What's going on here?

Has the Buss shut off the funds due to luxury tax?

Or are we being coy and waiting till the last minute?

Or are we waiting for the trading deadline in February?

I was hoping for a team that comes out of the gate destroying everyone, like the Celtics did last year.

John

Speaking of defense and getting a good player in banging bodies, enjoy this video:

http://tinyurl.com/6rlgaq

Turnover Machines

I was curious about how Drew matched up statistically with other centers (particularly in FG%). The first surprise I came across was Shaq never having had a season over 60% until he went to Miami. The second surprise was learning that Dwight Howard is a turnover ready to happen ( on a per shot and per assist basis). Much, much worse number than Kwame for instance. I thought about it a little and it realized that it wasn't that surprising since Dwight is probably double or triple teamed almost every time he touches the ball in the post.

I then decided to look into how Kwame stacks up against post players not likely to get doubled often.

In terms of turnovers, the following players have much worse numbers than Kwame has:

Dalembert, Magliore, Curry, Mutumbo, Harrison, and Mourning.

These are only the post players who have much worse numbers than Kwame and aren't likely to be doubled often with the exception of Curry whose numbers are so incredibly awful I decided to include him. I only included Zo after comparing his Miami numbers to his career numbers. Very little difference.

There are quite a few other post players who have numbers worse than or similar to Kwame's.

I'm not suggesting that the Lakers should sign Kwame (I don't think they should). Or that Kwame is better than these players. It just struck me as odd.

JORDAN FARMAR ON JIM ROME…

Just heard a great interview by Jim Rome with Jordan Farmar. Jordan talked about a whole range of different topics, including the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq, the trade of his buddy Ronny Turiaf, his recent trip to Korea and planned basketball camp in Israel for Israeli and Palestinian kids, and his opportunity to meet and introduce Barack Obama during a recent visit to the Southland.

Rome was so impressed by Jordan that he made a quip about Jordan running for office when his basketball and said he was going to call him senator from now on. The general impression by the clones was “Jordan Freaking Farmar.” What was interesting was that Jordan’s trip to Israel is not part of an NBA-sponsored charitable activity. It is something that Jordan actually created with a charitable group in Maine that had sponsored a camp in the USA for Israeli and Palestinian kids, which Jordan participated in last summer.

Farmar also talked about his multi-racial background, with a black father, white mother, and Jewish step-father, which has exposed him to three very different cultural histories and helped him understand that in the end, people are just people. As multi-racial man, I am extremely proud of Jordan Farmar for his admirable sense of responsibility and the motivation and drive to do something himself to help the world be a better place.

It’s kind of ironic that Jordan, as a multi-racial American who is half African-American, had a chance at a recent Southland political event to meet and introduce Barrack Obama, another multi-racial American who is half African-American – and a former point guard. Leaving politics aside, we should all be proud to see the progress we have made in giving Americans of every color, religion, cultural background, or sexual orientation a chance to participate in and impact society. That is something we all should be proud of.

There was a recent outstanding article in the New York Times about the impact that multi-racial individuals are having in this country and how the changes in the last census that finally gave Americans the ability to check more than one box when identifying their racial background have empowered an entire new generation of young Americans with multi-racial backgrounds, who are changed the way our country views race.

As for Ronny Turiaf, Jordan echoed the blog-sync-think that Ronny did what he had to do for more security for his family and the chance play more and has our best wishes. He didn’t want to get into the Kobe-Shaq thing, said that the Lakers had a great year but will have a bitter taste in their mouths about losing to the Celtics that won’t go away until the Lakers get back to the Finals and redeem themselves.

From a basketball standpoint, I hear a lot of grumbling on the blog that Farmar is not good enough to be our starting point guard in the future. Personally, I still love Jordan’s game and think he does have a shot to become an impact player similar to Tony Parker, who also gets abused by big aggressive guards like Deron Williams. Despite complaints about his defense, Parker’s ability to penetrate on offense has been a big part of the Spurs success and championships, with Parker even winning Finals MVP.

This will be a critical year for Jordan, just as the third year is for most players on rookie scale contracts, just as it was for Deron Williams and our own Andrew Bynum. I am hoping that Jordan really comes back a stronger and more confident player that takes his game to the next level. He needs to add a few pounds of muscle, improve his defensive aggressiveness by anticipating and using his quickness to beat players to the spot and draw a charge rather than getting meekly picked off on screens ala Smush Parker.

Offensively, I would like to see Jordan attack the rim more, especially learning how to use a jump stop to finish in the lane and take advantage of his quickness and 42” vertical leap, as well as bringing back his teardrop shot and raising his 3-point percentage to 40%. If Jordan can do these things, I think he can clear away the cobwebs of doubt that many fans have and show that he can be the team’s point guard of the future.

Tom

Making the Lakers the favorite this upcoming year is a miscalculation. This team doesn't have enough of a veteran roster so it lacks leadership from a variety of places.

Where’s the leadership at SF, especially the defense in a league where talented SF's are a dime a dozen? Where's the leadership at PF? Lamar has never been know as a leader in any form, though he may be a great teammate that does posses enough plays to make a positive impact on the game, he's not someone you want with the ball at the top of the key with 5 seconds left of on the other guy at the top of the key with 10 seconds left. Where's the playoff valor from the center position? Heck where’s the IMPROVED stats in the post season, not diminished ones? Quality, battle tested vets get better during the playoffs, not recede from the pressure and the opposition’s play.

Can Gasol do better this year at PF? This Finals, how could Gasol and Phil not come up with a way to get Gasol either moving toward the paint for the give and go drive and sky dunk finish that he and Kobe had perfected during the year? (defenders sagging? Where’s the kick to Shash, which BTW, is HE remaining?). Or even worse, how could Gasol let the younger, less experienced, smaller (and far less pretty) Perkins keep him out of the paint, out of his shooting zone, out of his rebounding zone which basically left Pau out doing his bird dance and clogging the very lanes our guards were unsuccessfully trying to drive thru? How come Phil didn't have an answer to this?
Where was the leadership from the point guard position? Why was fisher so badly out played by Rondo? (I though Farmar was far superior and had his way with the defense.) Why didn’t we have an answer for the zone defense Rivers was bound to throw at us?

There’s no way we should be favorites this year, not after we were out played, out strategized, out harmonized out effortized by the Celtics.

Not until we see how Bynum responds to stronger, bulkier, smaller centers who so far have been successful at keeping him out of position, and not until we see how Pau can actually perform as a power forward who’s no longer playing with his back to the basket and will be counted on to bring a consistent outside jumper, and not until we see how Lamar Odom who makes his name snagging rebounds and scoring around the hoop performs an perimeter defender while bringing a dependable outside shots, and not until we add another shooter and reserve PF.

Wes

Benjamin,

I apologise for my previous post in that on a reread it appears more blunt (and certainly nothing like as well written) than I would have liked.The truth was I rushed it and you deserved better.I certainly appreciate your unique viewpoint and your sharing it ...which is why I bothered to reply in the first place as it is certainly worthwhile discussion.

I'll reply soon...i'm more than happy to bash this one out!

Benjamin & Kiwi,

>>>> Do you really know we nearly didn’t make the trade for Gasol?...or were the
>>>>>asking for Lamar or Bynum or Farmar until the deadline?
>>>>>You simply don’t know. You are making a lot of assumptions –
>>>>>a lot of them media driven.
>>>>>Remember sometimes the best deal are the ones you don’t make. – Kiwi.

I am sort in the middle between you two guys as far as confidence in the Lakers Front Office. I do see Benjamin’s point about the Gasol trade. I found it amazing to hear Mitch state, which he definitely did, that we would NOT have traded for Gasol if Drew had not gotten injured. That said to me that the team was planning on keeping Kwame as the primary backup to Drew, which would have been a terrible mistake in my mind. Our general manager should have been trying to move Kwame all along, knowing he was a detriment to winning and team chemistry. We all knew who Kobe meant, after the Gasol trade, when he said it was great to have somebody who could catch the ball and finish. And I won’t even get into the Smush thing since I long lobbied for his ass to be gone.

On the other hand, I definitely agree with Kiwi’s point that the best deals are often the ones you don’t make. Similarly, the patience to let our young players develop has really paid off. There is nothing more frustrating to a franchise than to let a young promising player go because he was not developing fast enough, only to have that player come back and haunt the franchise by becoming a great player. When Mitch says that we know the value of our players better than other teams, I tend to believe him. And while I have some questions still about the Front Office, the bottom line is that I have confidence that they will get the job done. I may not believe in them 100%, but I do believe in them.

No general manager is perfect, this is, except bloggers Monday morning quarterbacking games via their Tivo. LOL.

Tom

Semper Infedelis User,
"dood give it a rest!!" "Fire32 confessed to posting as Butler?? I had no clue"

Thats the same words that Pig and Outsidergua uses also! Dood!

"In any case, tim-4-show apparently read somewhere that Ariza has been working with Hodges to improve his 3 point shot, I had been hoping for that but had no clue it was happening."

Why else would Craig Hodges be on the coaching staff? That's been posted so many times by different people on the blog. For his weight on the bench? (Did you know Kareem is coaching Bynum?) You have no clue twice posted. At least you admitted it.

LTLF

Other "average" rebounders per 48 min:

LeBron James 9.4, Ryan Gomes, 9.4, Josh Howard 9.3, Mike Miller 9.1, Kellena Azubuike 9.0. and Carlos Delfino 8.9

There are some surprises in this range (including others not listed here, but I've provided the link for you)

Other Lakers

LO 13.5, Gasol 11.2, Kobe 7.7 and Drew 17.0

http://tinyurl.com/6c8aqc

Jon,

>>>>> Why is LakerTom so sweet on Andrew Bynum?

>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efsJwJxYEk

>>>>>Watch. Learn. Remember. Get Ready.

>>>>>{Everytime I watch I literally start giggling like a village idiot.
>>>>>Bring on the Celtics!}

>>>>>GO LAKERS!

Thanks for the link to the Making of a Beast. What is really great about this video is that it reminds you of how Drew was playing entire games, not just of a few great plays per game but of a player who can totally dominate the paint on offense and defense.

Watch the video and you won’t worry at all about the Lakers toughness next year. Drew is truly going to be the biggest beast in the league. JMHO.

You CANNOT deny the potential greatness of Andrew Bynum is you watched this video or if you watched him play last year before getting injured.

Tom

Tim,

>>>>> He was working on his jump shot with Hodges the moment he arrived.
>>>>>then when the injury happened, all he did was work on his outside jumper.

>>>>>I think he shot close to 50% from the outside in the playoffs...
>>>>>not very many attempts mind you, but he may have improved
>>>>>with all that extra work he put in.

I agree with your assessment of Trevor’s ability to shoot from 3-point range. Unlike guys like Smush and Kwame who never worked on their craft, Ariza appears to be dedicated to becoming a better player, which is a Kobe clone trait that I think is a critical requirement to be a Laker and teammate of Kobe’s.

Trevor’s focus on his shooting and work with Hodges reminds me of how Derek Fisher used his injury time his sophomore year to really work on his 3-point shooting. When he returned from injury, he immediately started draining 3’s and has been a high percentage 3-point shooter ever since.

There are countless stories of NBA players who learned to shoot better and became good 3-point shooters, including the Lakers own Magic Johnson and Derek Fisher. I am hoping we will see the same type of progress from Trevor this year, showing not only that he can play D like Bowen but also hit the crucial corner 3.

Tom

Long Time,

>>>>>When Kwame went down in the 2006-07 season, it was
>>>>>probably the best thing that ever happened to Andrew. It
>>>>>threw him into the deep end and forced him to swim. And
>>>>>he realized that he didn't have enough stamina to play a lot
>>>>>of minutes at that level, so he went out in the summer and
>>>>>worked hard to improve on his weak areas.

I agree 100%. In fact, I thought Phil played Kwame way too much, which was why Kwame’s injury was really a blessing in disguise. In fact, anything that got Kwame off the floor and onto the bench was great, as was the trade that sent his ass to Memphis.

>>>>>That's exactly what those of us cheering for Trevor are
>>>>>hoping. He sees that his 3-point shooting is mediocre. But
>>>>>he's young. If he went out this summer and worked on his
>>>>>outside shooting, maybe he could improve that 33% to 38%.

I think it is worth the Lakers considering to start Trevor and let Lamar come off the bench. Your point about guys needing playing time to show what they can do and to force them to grow is very valid. The payoff for the Lakers is great if Trevor can be become their version of Bowen or Battier, playing tough defense and burying 3-point shots from the corner.

Tom

LakerTom,

I feel every confidence that in 10 years people will be talking about that Mikan-Chamberlein-Jabaar-O'Neal-Bynum lineage of Great Laker centers.

GO LAKERS!

Wes,

>>>>>There’s no way we should be favorites this year, not after we were out played,
>>>>>out strategized, out harmonized out effortized by the Celtics.

The difference is that the Lakers played the Celtics without their starting center and best interior defender, scorer, and rebounder. The odds simply reflect the fact that the Lakers are the better team on paper with Bynum in the lineup. Of course, we will still have to prove that in next year’s Finals, but the odds makers seem to be confident we will.

Tom