Very cool indeed. I wish more athletes would go over and do stuff like this. Who knows, if the younger generation can get along now, then maybe one day in the future, when they're leading their countries, they'll look back and we'll see peace in that region. Best of luck JF.

-bozz-

Very, very cool.

Wow .. this is really cool and interesting, Thanks alot Farmer .. ;)

Hopefully Farmar won't get stabbed in the midst of trying to mediate a dispute.

There's a lot of hate in that region and it goes deeper than most of us can understand.

GO LAKERS!

Basketball is perhaps the greatest team sport for building bridges between different groups of people. I can't think of a sport that, while the ball is in play, is more inclusive or evokes more passion.

Ethnic or racial hatred seems to go something like this: all of us guys are the same, all of those guys are the same, and all of us guys don't want any of those guys around.

But to play winning basketball, you NEED one of these and one of those - different people with different skills, working together.

And basketball gives the younger people something to be passionate FOR, rather than against. I remember the pick up games at the park, where kids with different skin colors and different neighborhoods all met up and the court rules meant that teams were re-picked all the time. And when Dad called to chew my a$$ out, about being late for dinner again, and I had to jam home (on my bike), all I could think about was the game that was just being played. It never occurred to me which kid was black or brown or white or yellow - in my mind it was "the kid with the cross-over" or the kid "with the strong left" of the kid "with that stupid tear-drop."

So why can't this work for the Middle-East? Does an Isreali kid who just got beat off the dribble say to himself "those Gaza camp-kids can't go left!"? Or does a Palestinian kid who just made a great shot say "those kibbutznicks are soft, and the Sabras can't rebound!"?

Hell no. Basketball takes over. Politics and history don't matter, as long as the ball is bouncing.

Respectfull (especially for Jordan Farmar)
PROUD CHEESE

Fatty, thank you so much for your update on Jorge. Good, he's healthy this spaniard can play on NBA level. If you team him up Jorge's jump shooting with Kobe on the wing and Bynum or paisano on the inside that's perfect triangle. Laker fans don't know him that much except those who follow the Euro League, there is a tendency to associate him to Vlad or Sasha. Jorge is bulky guy who handled the rebounds together with Marc when Pau got injured in the FIBA. The other three spaniards who are also good but not creating much noise in the NBA are Sergio Rodriguez, Carlos Navarro and Jose Calderon.

Great links Charles on Coby Karl, another big leaf for the Lakers this season. He looks like a starting PG, tho' he will defer for Fisher and Farmar. If the two can't do, there is a 6'4" PG waiting on the bench who can shoot, rebound and assist in a simultaneous fashion. There is also a sharp shooter PG Chinese, Sun Yue who can dunk at a height of 6'9". F & F are great but not tall enough to grab rebounds and evade 7 footers in the post.

Aloha Michael H. I respect your opinion and sorry I was not able to reply on your post immediately. I wish Luke Walton the best of luck after the surgery, i'd just think Lakers should move beyond those China eggs: Walton, VladRad and Mihm, there are a lot of players who are applying to wear purple and gold that can help when push comes to shove in the playoffs.

AK, LTLF and others,

How come Marcus Camby with an 8M base can be exchanged with Clippers 2nd rd. picks in 2010? What's the arbitrary salary of that 2nd rd daft pick? That's a great idea because with his departure, Nugget's salary cap was also reduced that could help them get a replacement and avoid luxury taxes.

Many posts have addressed these concerns on Vlad and Luke, if there is a team willing to absorb their future salaries can we offer them for 1st or 2nd round picks? Advantages: Roster space and salary cap savings

Ping Pong diplomacy as we used to call it helps.

The middle east like many volatile places teaches hate thru propaganda at a very early age. It may never improve if it continues the way its going.

But, Sports can transcend many prejudices as people find out were all very similar when it comes down to it.

To simply say, nothing will work, and not even try shows such a defeatist attitude. How do we know that one of those kids, impressed by Farmars example, might be the next MLK? Yeah, that might be a stretch, but you have to try.

Find something you share in common, and build off of that.

Farmar is also to be commended for his courage to go.

Edwin,

"How come Marcus Camby with an 8M base can be exchanged with Clippers 2nd rd. picks in 2010? What's the arbitrary salary of that 2nd rd daft pick? That's a great idea because with his departure, Nugget's salary cap was also reduced that could help them get a replacement and avoid luxury taxes. Many posts have addressed these concerns on Vlad and Luke, if there is a team willing to absorb their future salaries can we offer them for 1st or 2nd round picks? Advantages: Roster space and salary cap savings"

This has nothing to do with a future salary of a second round pick. The CBA allows for trades that don't match salaries if one team is under the cap, as the Clippers were. But most teams are over the cap, which is why these deals rarely happen.

It also takes the right player being exchanged, which Camby qualified as. Reasonable salary that only goes two more seasons, one of the NBA's best at his particular skill set and fills a particular need for the Clips (with Brand gone). Vlad or Walton both have longer deals and are role players coming off bad seasons. That would make them considerably less appealing for the few teams that could make this kinda deal.

Bottom line, unless you're willing to take on an unappealing contract of sorts, you're not moving Vlad or Walton or at least another season or so (or until they start playing better). There's no way around it.
AK

Tomorrow is the revelation day for Ronny Turiaf, will the Lakers match the Warrior's offer sheet?

Hoopworlds reports that Lakers are the league favorite destination for Bill Arterst and Kenny Thomas. The other offers are:

Denver - Bill says his client does not want to go to the Nuggets
Dallas - Josh Howard for Bill and Kenny
Heat - Marion for Bill and Kenny
and Lakers LO for Bill Artest only.

Hoopworld reports:
"The Kings are insisting any team who wants Ron Artest take back the bloated contract of Thomas as well. For his part, Thomas basically already has his bags packed in anticipation of the move. He's also working extremely hard to make himself relevant again in a new setting.
The most likely destination mentioned for Artest according to league sources continues to be the Los Angeles Lakers. And if Thomas is ready to go, he could slide into the vacancy left by Ronny Turiaf if the Lakers opt not to match Golden State's offer sheet.
A trade to the Lakers isn't anywhere close to being a done deal yet, but it does appear both Artest and Thomas will be playing together in a city other than Sacramento next season.
In a related note, it appears Shareef Abdur-Rahim may retire this offseason as a result of persistent knee problems."

~~~~
If we have Jorge Garbajosa, I will go with LO roll the dice until February and hopefully, he will revise his high salary scale with the Lakers.

HIGH CHEESE,

Well put. I only disagree with one point, I think soccer is the ultimate barrier crossing sport. It's the most global, multi-ethnic game out there, and it'll put players from countries thousands of miles apart on the same team to achieve a common cause, even if their countries are at war.

The only issue I have with soccer is while it's such a global and diverse game, there's still some racism in certain areas, namely northern Europe. As a child of Europe, I saw this several times in my life. Just look at the ads in the Euro Cup this year. "Say no to racism." It's sad that we still live in a world with hate and prejudice, but hopefully acts and efforts such as the ones by JF will make a difference, even if it's only in the eyes of a few children.

-bozz-

It's been at least a week since we've had a good discussion about
the concept that if the Lakers don't offer Bynum the max this summer
that he will only take the 1-year tender next summer and become
an unrestricted free agent in 2010 instead.

We did see one signing (Andrew Bogut) that probably gives some
indication of the salary neighborhood for Bynum (assuming
he can get back to full health).

We also saw precedents for what a highly talented player
can get in the free agent market if they're one of the first to
get signed -- Corey Maggette got a 50 million dollar deal with
Golden State. Elton Brand - a multiple times All-Star got a deal worth about 80 million. Note that Brand's contract doesn't
set a precedent for Bynum, unless he goes out and averages
20 and 10 next season and makes the All-Star team.

Now the real shakeout will start to happen. Philadelphia,
the Clippers, and Golden State have now used up their big
chunks of cap space. Memphis is now the only team with
the ability to make a big offer to any of the restricted free
agents, and word is that they're not likely to do so.

So now consider the situations of Deng, Gordon, Okafor,
Smith, and Igoudala. All of them got huge contract extension
offers last summer - 45 million for Smith, 50 million for Gordon,
57 million for Igoudala, 57.5 million for Deng, more than 60 million
for Okafor.

You could argue that 45 to 60 million isn't huge when Gil Arenas
got offered 126 million, but we can all agree that 45 million dollars
is a lot of money to turn down). If someone got to the 45 million
dollar level on the TV Show "Deal or no deal?", it would be a very
very rare individual who would turn down the 45 million for a
small chance that they could get more. You could never work
another day in your life and live very will on 45 million dollars.

And they all turned those offers down. Now there are no
other teams to drive the prices up, and none of those guys
were quite up to all-star level last season. So the teams are
in the situation to offer each player what the team thinks they
are worth, with no threat that they'll have to match a higher
offer.

So now it sets up 5 potential test cases for the "my feelings
are hurt so I'm going to take the 1-year offer to leave and take my
chances on the open market." theory. Each team has a chance
to not overpay their players - they can offer them a fair amount,
which in most of their cases is less than was offered last summer,
and say to them, "Take this amount, or take the 1-year tender
and gamble that you might get even less next summer."

Atlanta offered 45 million to Josh Smith, which was the
lowest offer any of the 5 got. I think with them making
the playoffs and taking Boston to 7, they'll actually increase
that offer, but to something like 50 or 55, not to the max.
Will Josh be so insulted that he'll gamble on a bigger payday
next summer?

Deng and Igoudala will probably get similar offers to what
they got last summer. Both of them played well, but neither
of them made some great leap over past performance showing
that they are worthy of more money. And in Deng's case,
Chicago will be brushing up against the luxury tax number
with his added salary, so they're not going to jack it up and
double the pain.

Gordon performed worse last season than in the previous
season. I'll bet whatever offer he gets is LESS than what
he got offered last summer. This is relevant to the Bynum
situation for several reasons.

It will stand as an example that if you turn down 50 million
one summer and then underachieve, then you might get
offered 40 million the next summer. It adds one more threat
of what might go wrong if you turn down a huge deal. If
more than one of those teams lowers their offer (Okafor
would be the next most likely), then it would really stand out.

Also, it will give Gordon a chance to play chicken. Will he
take the 1-year tender instead and try for more (and gamble
on less) for 2009? If he does, this may encourage Bynum
(or others who might be getting extension offers this summer)
that they could do the same thing.

And if the Bulls do offer less than 50 and IF Gordon takes the
1-year tender instead, and IF Gordon gets offered less than
50 million next summer, then that will be the ultimate warning
to players to take the money when they can get it. And it
would happen just in time for Bynum. If Gordon gets offered
40 million now, takes the 1-year tender, and gets offered 35 million
by some other team next summer, then unless Bynum has
had a 20-10 season, he'll be much more inclined to take the
Lakers offer and not opt out.

None of these 5 players will get a max offer, because none
of them is worth it. From what he's shown so far, neither has
Bynum. The league was spending freely for a few years,
but now most teams are over the salary cap every year,
and a lot of teams are near the luxury tax, so spending is
on a bit of a downtrend. I don't think you'll see any max
contract offers to anyone who hasn't made it at LEAST to
all-star level any time soon.

I'll reiterate what I think will happen - the Lakers will evaluate
Bynum this summer and will make him an extension offer in
the neighborhood of 50 to 60 million dollars, probably with
performance incentives that could bring it up in the range of
70 to 80 million if he achieves them all. And depending on
how things go with Smith, Igoudala, Okafor, Deng, and Gordon,
I think he will probably take the deal.

Best and SAFE wishes to Farmar.
Farmar's visit might coincide with the "official" start of the war in Iran. Hopefully, he will return before the bombing begins.

Long Time,
"You could never work another day in your life and live very will on 45 million dollars."

You're kidding, right? I've got my posse to take care of, plus I need to build a bigger house because the 8 bedrooms and 12 bathrooms and 20 seat theatre aren't enough.

exhelodrvr,

>>>You're kidding, right? I've got my posse to take care of,
>>>plus I need to build a bigger house because the 8
>>>bedrooms and 12 bathrooms and 20 seat theatre aren't
>>>enough.

Yes, yes. And you can't buy a decent jet for less than 55 or
60 million dollars, and the prices of Chateus in the French
Alps just keeps going up.

And that's the kind of thinking that caused Latrell Sprewell to
turn down 3 years at 7 million per and then later have his
yacht repossessed because he wasn't keeping up with the payments
on it.

Players with common sense recognize that the era of overpaying
players in the NBA is gone. And they carefully consider the huge
contract they've been offered and don't get insulted because it's
not for the max. Remember last summer, Ben Gordon turned
down his max offer right away, but Luol Deng thought long and
hard about it. And all the media were hyping him to be a
potential superstar.

Okay, the Camby trade was nice. It was good to see SOMETHING
happening, but it wasn't enough. I'm jonesing for some good
free-agent-signing-or-player-trading news.

Since we're not getting that, I'm going to ruffle some feathers here and propose another trade that I haven't heard mentioned
here or anywhere else, but that might make sense.

Lamar Odom for Rasheed Wallace.

You want hard-nosed interior defense? You got it.

Sheed doesn't score or rebound as much as Lamar, but
nobody would ever question his toughness. He makes a
little bit less than Lamar, so it would reduce the luxury
tax hit as well.

And `Sheed's contract expires next summer, so if it didn't
work out, you could either trade him as an expiring
contract at the trade deadline or let him walk and free up
the cap space to pay all the other young Lakers.

And what's more, Sheed is only about half as nutty as
Ron Artest.

What do you think (he says, dodging the thrown eggs and
rotten fruit)

Correcting myself -

I said "...Ben Gordon turned down his max offer..."

I meant "huge offer". Neither Gordon nor Deng got a max offer.

Very cool indeed. I wish more athletes would go over and do stuff like this. Who knows, if the younger generation can get along now, then maybe one day in the future, when they're leading their countries, they'll look back and we'll see peace in that region. Best of luck JF.

-bozz-

Posted by: bozz | July 16, 2008 at 09:13 AM

You've never been to the Middle East, have you bozz?

Well…

Whatever help Farmar can contribute to that historically impossible situation over there is welcome I guess. However, as with many other individuals and organizations who have tried over the years to foster peace, understanding and goodwill, amongst Palestinians and Israelis through these kinds of sports camps.

It all pretty much ends up to be just another shooting, a suicide bomb, a rocket attack from Gaza, or some other debacle usually from Palestinian militants. Followed by the Israeli military reprisals, which are sure to follow.

Away from unraveling all the good these and other various peace missions have painstakingly managed to build, sorry to say.

Posted by: LoveTheLakeShow | July 16, 2008 at 09:49 AM

Yep, exactly. Good idea. Don't give up and all that.

But, seriously, abandon all hope ye who enter here...

There are many people and groups in the region that don't want peace. It doesn't take a significant amount of action to stop the process. I'd say about 2 suicide bombings in one month (and Israeli reprisals) should do the trick every time.

I have to say, that there has been so much excellent reading over the course of this and especially, the last thread. It has truly run the gamut, from practical basketball info, to absurdist humor, to stuff that I have no knowlege of but am oddly fascinated by. Molecular whah?? Glad to see bloggers in such fine form.

>>>How come Marcus Camby with an 8M base can be
>>>exchanged with Clippers 2nd rd. picks in 2010?

The second round pick swap is just a throw in. What Camby was traded for was a 10 million dollar trade exception.

The Clippers had cap space, so they could trade for Camby without sending any players back.

In fact there was a good line about this on hoopshype:

"The New Jersey Nets also were interested in trading for Marcus Camby, who was dealt to the
Clippers on Tuesday. But the Nets, without room under the salary cap, were not able to bid low
enough to get him in a salary-cap dump. "Kiki really wanted Marcus,'' said Camby's agent,
Rick Kaplan, referring to New Jersey general manager Kiki Vandeweghe, the general manager
in Denver when the Nuggets traded for Camby in June 2002.

"But he didn't have enough of nothing to give.''

Benjamin - This is from ESPN regarding Camby's salary

Using the salary-cap space earmarked for re-signing Brand before his free-agent departure to the Philadelphia 76ers, L.A. was able to absorb Camby's contract ($10 million for each of the next two seasons) without surrendering anything of consequence, although Denver did create a trade exception worth $10.1 million that expires one year from Tuesday.

LTLF,

good analysis. i always enjoy watching the cat and mouse games of front offices and players/agents. Going back to Ron Bill Ron Ron and his decision earlier this summer to not opt out, you sometimes wonder what the agents are whispering in players ears.

Looking at guys like Ben Gordon last year or Deshawn Stevenson of two summers ago: when the money is offered, you might want to take it.

Another player who comes to mind is Keyon Dooling. Earlier this week he was "insulted" by the Magic's offer. Well, the Magic moved quickly, signed another guard (for a fraction of the price) and Keyon's window may have been SLAMMED in his face. I can't think of too many other teams in the league who will be offering Keyon 4 mill a year.

Bynum seems to be a pretty clear headed young cat. My hope is he accepts an offer (and the guaranteed money) with incentives that raise his pay based on his play. But, to go back to my first point, you wonder what his agent is whispering...

we're playin baaaaasketball
without a baaaaaasketball.

Sorry guys, just felt like sayin that.

Jon K,

>>>Long Time Laker Fan,
>>>
>>>{Throwing rotten eggs and cursing.}
>>>
>>>JUST SAY NO TO 'SHEED!
>>>
>>>JUST SAY NO TO RON BILL RON RON d'ARTEST!!!!

LOL. I love to stir up controversy.

So I guess proposing that the Lakers trade for BOTH Sheed
and Ron-Ron is right out. :-)