In fairness to Team USA, some players that would have been selected didn't want to play. I believe that was the case with Amare. Maybe it was with Battier too?

Miller didn't play that well in 07 and Carmelo played great in 06 and 07. Melo actually played great on both ends so I don't think we can kick him off the team.

I'll tell you one thing though. It's criminal that we don't have more good shooters on the team. We've got Redd. Kobe is an impressive shooter. Melo has shot well in international competition and does have a decent jumper too.

But, we should have Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Jason Richardson, Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups and maybe even Kapono on the team. Kapono's shooting is awesome, but overall I don't know that he has that much to offer.

The international game with its zone defenses is best won by good shooting. It's like basketball strategy 101.

rdlee ,

“As much as I like your optimism, what evidence do you have that Andrew w/o Pau would handle the Celtics? We lost both games rather handily with Bynum w/o Gasol. Andrew was definitely coming on but we don't KNOW if he would have made all the difference vs. the Celtics. This is a young up and coming player, not a proven All-Star.”

Come on, rd. How can I have any evidence? It’s just my opinion based on how Drew was playing the month before he got injured. Truthfully, the two games I missed this year were the Celtics games where Drew apparently did not play well but both games were before Drew really started coming into his own. Unless we get some form of time machine to take Drew from this year back to last year, we will never know. That’s why Mike T. still believes we would have won if hadn’t traded Kwame.

As an aside, while Drew is not a proven All-Star, he was selected ahead of all but 16 current NBA players on Chris Mattix’s mock draft that is the subject of this thread. In fact, Drew was selected before Tracy McGrady, David West, Carlos Boozer, Brandon Roy, Manu Ginobli, Steve Nash, and Rick Hamilton – all of whom have been all-stars.

Again, it is just my opinion but Andrew Bynum is probably the #3 center in the league today behind Yao Ming and Dwight Howard. If you don’t believe that, then try and make a list of the centers who you think are better right now. I guarantee you the Lakers will not trade for any of the guys on your list. We are entering the Era of the Beast.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | June 25, 2008 at 05:17 PM

Well, it doesn't take any imagination to see that having both Gasol and Bynum would have made the Lakers tougher to beat. Would it have made the difference? I think so.

The first three losses we took were all games that went down to the wire. Assuming that Bynum made no progress as a player from his last 20 games, it's not hard to project that he would have been getting at least 10 and 10.

Defensively, he would have represented an improvement with his shot blocking. Bynum's prescence also would have helped Gasol.

Bottom line: With an extra 10 and 10, some extra defensive prescence and a little more from Gasol, I say we win at least 2 out of those 3 games. That's all we needed.

"That’s why Mike T. still believes we would have won if hadn’t traded Kwame."

Acutally, what I believe is this: The Lakers wouldn't have won with Kwame Brown as the center because they didn't play defensive philosophy basketball. The defense Kwame applied when he was healthy was something he did on his own. But that still wasn't enough because PJ would always pull Kwame, which tells me that PJ wasn't concerned with playing defensive philosophy basketball.

It would have been difficult for the Lakers to win it all even if, under PJ, the Lakers played defensive philosophy basketball because the owners created too many holes for the center to cover. I mean signing Mihm, Walton and Karl was just too many roster spots that held weakness in their defensive game for the center to cover.

Had the owners let Mihm and Walton walk they could have signed a couple of defensive specialist to make Kwame's defensive abilities more effective. But by signing Mihm and Walton, the owners were commiting to a finesse philosophy/brand of basketball.

The only way the Lakers win with Kwame's defensive abilities is that the Lakers commit to a defense first attitude. The way the Lakers were going about it was as if they were trying to sprinkle defense in their approach to winning. In other words: We'll use Kwame when we play Houston or San Antonio and we need to slow down the big men. That approach is just silly.

The Lakers should have kept Kwame and had the first unit become a serious defensive team. With Kobe Bryant, Odom and Fisher the offense would have been there off of transition, which the defense would have provided. But, again, there were still problems because the 2nd unit was too weak defensively with Farmar, Sasha, Walton, Mihm and others.

The roster has too many defensive holes for a defensive center to cover them all.

mike t.

This has got to be NY. Mayo wants a big market and the Knicks want him badly.
------------------
* The Miami Heat have found a taker in their quest to trade the No. 2 draft pick, a source familiar with the situation told Pro Basketball News. The source did not indicate which team would be the Heat’s trading partner, or what other draft picks or players are involved.

* The supposed deal will reportedly be announced during or shortly after the draft. According to the source, the Heat will select USC guard O.J. Mayo and trade him. Kansas State forward Michael Beasley is expected to fall to No. 3 -- although not to Minnesota, which is expected to trade down.

Odom off the bench makes the most sense from what I see. The first unit needs a 3 point threat to spread the floor, so you would have Fisher or Farmar as one, then the SF would be the other, allowing Kobe to either play outside or drive the lane. So Radmanovic, if he could up his defensive skills at all, would be the most likely starter. Walton can shoot the 3 but he can also go into a tailspin and he's also injury prone so I just don't see Phil depending on him as a starter.
You get towards a few minutes left in the first quarter, Odom could come in at PF, Bynum and Fisher could rest, Gasol moves up to C, and you now have this year's lineup with Farmar at PG.
If Radmanovic gets in foul trouble, this is where Luke would come in for his 3 point shooting to keep the floor spread OR Ariza develops his 3 point shot over the summer.
Second quarter, Kobe, Gasol and Radmanovic sit if Radmanovic wasn't already in foul trouble, Sasha, Ariza and the backup Center comes in, say Mihm. Again, you've got pretty good spacing with Farmar and Sasha hovering outside, Ariza will have to find a midrange game, Odom would be the anchor of the unit and we'll see if Mihm can get some of his offensive game back.
Then the starters would rotate back in. Where does Walton fit in this scenario? What about Turiaf? I'd like to keep Turiaf as injury protection but some other team may just make him a good offer.
I like MBenga as a person but... come on... dude is a stiff, he may get a little better but... hopefully Mihm will be ok otherwise... this is why I'd be all for bringing back Kwame. The 2nd unit would be pretty solid, we wouldn't need Kwame to score at all. MBenga isn't an offensive threat either - he just hasn't been studied yet by players around the league so whatever cute little shot he comes up with will eventually be STUFFED. I'd rather have Kwame's giant calves back there putting some wear and tear on the other team's starting Center. Then Bynum could come back in and whale on him.
That's a 10 deep lineup right there, and if we still have Luke, he would be the 11th in case there are any injuries.
Posted by: Kwammas Brownus the III | June 25, 2008 at 02:49 PM

Wow a long post to say little.
Do you really believe Luke Walton can shoot 3's? Yeah right like every time he came in his defender played off him and ignored his shooting ability as he could not hit the ocean with a rock.

Mbenga is better than Mihm as he is bulkier, faster, less foul prone and cheaper. Definitely not a stiff.

Kwame Browns hands of stone who missed passes and when got them he botched up dunk.
Yes we are deep and we were last year but that did us no good as PJ refused to use the bench and played Luke like a sixed player instead of 10th or 11th. No matter what the tools they do us no good if not used.

With Kwame, 1st round

Without Kwame, Finals.

Enough already.

I read on ESPN.com that Marc Stein thinks that we will make an effort to get Artest, which in principle, I'm ok with, but not if we can't get him with the MLE, which is unlikely, and also definitely not if the Kings demand we take Kenny Thomas and his albatross of a contract and give them Odom. After having a week to convalesce, I really think the best spot for Odom is 6th man, and that could be a tremendous option if we can track down a starting small forward. I am coming to grips with the notion of giving Vlad Rad another year - he showed flashes of brilliance, particularly in the 1st quarter, which is what we really need if we bring LO off the bench. That will keep LO out of foul trouble and take even more pressure off of him- which makes him more effective. We also need to resign Sasha - even if someone offers him the MLE, we need to match it. He is a critical piece to the puzzle. We then need to use our MLE for a tough guy on the front line - I still like Kurt Thomas with that deal.

LakerTom,

Team USA has only one legitimate Center, Dwight Howard but two other guys who are really PF can play C like Boozer and Bosch. It could have been more balanced if Ray Allan, Amare and KG joined the team, unfortunately they prefer to have their rest period in Summer than represent USA in the Olympics. What the team needs is perimeter D because international teams love the 3 pt. shooting that could be the reason why there are more guards in that line up with Wade, Kobe, Deron, Chris and Kidd. Kidd will be the veteran among the veterans.

Finally, Larry Bird got rid of Jermaine O'Neal who have not helped the Pacers advanced in the Eastern Conference. They started to go down when Ron Artest, Jackson and Harrington were traded who excelled during the time of Coach Carlyle. Next season, the Pacers will become the Grizz' of the East on a rebuilding mode.

With regards to comment of Mike T. he may be right on Laker softness in the post while the refs. were not calling those rugged fouls being committed wantonly by PJ Brown, Perkins, Posey and KG, they were blatant fouls pulling the hands of Gasol, LO including Kobe a lot of pushing and shoving in the post. They called it sealing the paint. PJ never trusted his reserves to return the favor like Mbenga and Newble or even Ariza, he instead played Sasha, Farmar and Walton for too long minutes to do defensive tasks on players much taller than them. Indeed, defense really wins Championship that's why playoff basketball has different flavor than the 82 games. Next season, hopefully we have Bynum if the whole team does not play D., he will just be worthless b/c he will foul out in stopping every player driving or dunking in the paint. Someone compared this to Showtime Lakers of '84 and won with the same personnel in '85 that's a stretch in comparison to compare Kareem/Magic/Worthy/Scott/Cooper to the '08 Lakers... give me a break! It is best not to compare any eras because players have changed, situations are now different, even the attire on shorts belongs to different generation, let us just stick to this era.

exhelodrvr - dr. miguelito loveless (very hard man to defend against).

Dear Let's Go C's!

I agree with Laker Tom.

I think you should start calling me some names, also.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other "ladies" here, too.

Calling us names hurts our feelings. So does burning our tongues with our hot non-fat soy lattes.

Just wondering, where do Boston types go for their vacations? Cape Cod? Martha's Vineyard? Maine? I have no idea.

I live in Laguna Niguel. Google it. Look at some pictures. It's pretty nice. We root for the Lakers here. It's the best of both worlds - Mediterranean climate, and all those championships, with more on the way.

Enjoy your summer...
And Go Pats!

laker hopeful

just playing armchair GM like a lot of us like to do. It's a lot of fun and it would be great to see a blogger have a trade right.

you must have missed the post when I said standing pat was an option, but there is no fun in that this time of year.

by the way, I see SA, Portland, Utah, NO, and Houston making moves to get better and be quite formidable

Am I the only one that thinks Larry Bird must be kicking himself right about now?

He had a choice: Bynum or Lamar.

Instead, he has TJ Ford

As Michael Cooper would say in the Sizzler commercial "I gotcha Larry. I gotcha"

Now what about Frankenstein McHale? That guy could have had BOTH Bynum & Lamar.. but does he care?

Nope.

All he really wanted was a Celtics championship, and getting it at our expense only made him feel vindicated further...

I hope those in Minnesota hang him out to dry.

As Generic_One (favorite Seattlite on Lakersblog) would tell you....

Never trust a Zombie.

This blog is AWESOME.

Fool, Fakers and Freaks.

Boston is where the real fans are. You don't see Bostonians hate on its legends and stars. Half of this blog hates your Starlet Bryant.

Your Starlet Bryant hates on his teammates, GM and owner. Your Starlet Bryant cares about being the Boss rather than win.

Your former 3-times Finals MVP hates your Starlet Bryant and calls him out years after his UGLY departure.

Your Starlet Bryant pretends to be Jordan, but disappears in the Finals, all the while making a history by getting blown out by 40-points AND droping the worst collaps in NBA Finals history.

BIGGEST COLLAPS IN FINALS HISTORY!!!!!

AHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

And you Fools, Fakers and Freaks sit hear pretending that all you need is Yound Bynum, who's played 15 good games averaging 14 points and 10 rebounds, as the savior.

Hey, Shaq O'neal averaged 14 and 10 in Phx and the Fat Guy is 100 years old.

hahahaaahahah

Pathetic.

Raise your hand if you are a KNOW NOTHING LAKERS FAN- who has never played basketball and goes to Lakers games to "look for celebrities"!!!!

What a bunch of horrible sports fans in LA.

I know- "there is so much to do in LA we don't follow sports."

NO- you are just terrible sports fans- and metrosexuals to boot.

I don't know why so many are crowning Andrew Bynum as our savior. The kid is very talented, that is for sure. But, and this is a big but, he hasn't played more than 30 games in a season throughout his whole life! That's a huge question to answer, when we expect to play 100 games each year. I think Lakerfans are doing themselves a disservice relying on Bynum alone to bring home the championship. I remember during the regular season Kendrick Perkins had no problems shoving around Bynum.

We need to be able to matchup with the Celtics. Even with Bynum, we cannot match up with the Celtics best player and main force; Paul Pierce. We need someone who can take Pierce out of his game. To me, that someone is Shane Battier, a 6'9, strong defender who can spread the floor by shooting the 3 very well. Plus he's a class individual, team player, championship pedigree. He'd be a great Laker, better than Rick Fox. Most importantly, he has what it takes to control Paul Pierce 1 on 1.

Battier makes about 7-8 million a year which is a bargain. I think he'd be the perfect guy to take that SF position, even better than Lamar.

Mitch Kupchak, get on the phone and try to get Battier w/o trading Lamar if possible.

Garnett/Gasol---check
Allen/Kobe-------check
Pierce/Battier----check

Defense wins championships! We have plenty of offense.

Go Lakers!

Artest, 28, visited the Lakers' locker room during the NBA Finals and has spoken glowingly of Kobe Bryant in the past, but he told the Mason and Ireland Show on KSPN-AM (710) that it "looks like I'm going to be a King next year" before saying he would "never" take less money to play for a championship contender.

"Not in a million years," he said. "Actually, not in 10 million years."

Haha. Do you guys still want this guy in a Lakers uniform? Wow, I'm glad he has put that rumor to rest and he is staying in cow town. I knew this guys was trouble. We don't need players apathetic towards a championship.

Forget about Artest. He's a lunatic and he's already said he won't sign with a contender for less money. He's out of the running.

Think Quinton Ross.

Defensive specialist. Hardworker. Selfless player. Affordable.

GO LAKERS!

lets go C's

i'm telling you again, your cavs lost...get over it.,.its pathetic...trying to pretend to be a celtics fan...we know u are a cavs fans ......,,you disillusional fool....

better get king james some help....

Good morning Mamba24, Charles & the morning CRUE! Good morning Laker Nation!

Probably no time to post today, but my heart is here. I've noticed there are a lot of trolls ID'd and wounded, but not too much starving going on. PLEASE - STARVE THE TROLLS! Maybe they will go back home to mama to get fed & leave us alone for awhile.

Then again, stupid is as stupid does.

OR - it could be that the purpose of their lives is merely to serve as a warning example to others.

Have a great day Laker Family!

Draft Day!

I'll have an Anchor Steam followed by a Pilsner Urquell.

GO LAKERS!

laker32,

Cavs fans are crazy delusional.

I was at a Cleveland bar recently and I overheard the following statement. And I quote...

"Man, I don't know why everyone thinks Jordan is such a big deal. LeBron has accomplished everything Jordan has AND MORE... except for the championships and all."

Delusional.

GO LAKERS!

Charles,
What about Herman Munster? He has a great attitude.

But if he were a Celtic, he would probably be the 12th man on their all-time ugly team.

Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 25, 2008 at 05:11 PM

Sir Ex,

They already have Scala-weeine for 3 years at $15 million. Thanks for the reply.

Hi All - good morning!

Where's pig? We need him to help eat these lame trolls. It's kind of annoying but I am now scrolling thru to the regulars.

Even on draft day there is not a lot of news. I am more interested to see what the Clips and Warriors will do since the Lakers are going to have a VERY quiet Summer.

GO LAKERS!

Edwin Gueco,

>>>Someone compared this to Showtime Lakers of '84 and won with the same personnel
>>>in '85 that's a stretch in comparison to compare Kareem/Magic/Worthy/Scott/Cooper to
>>>the '08 Lakers...

You have the benefit of looking back at those players after they have already won several
championships and produced long and productive careers. Can you see the future? Do
you know what the eventual legacy of Jordan Farmar, Andrew Bynum, Sasha Vujacic,
Trevor Ariza, Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Derek Fisher, and Lamar Odom will be?

In 2020, people may look back and see them as the group that lost their composure in `08
against the Celtics and never regained it. Or they may look back at them as the next Laker
Dynasty after the Shaq and Kobe dynasty.

But if you didn't have the benefit of knowing how anything of the Showtime stars' careers
turned out and you compared their outlook after the 1984 finals to the outlook of the current
Lakers, you would see the obvious parallels. Best offensive team in the league. Just beaten
by a hard-nosed (sometimes cheap shot taking) Boston team. Media calling them soft. The
only question is whether this year's Lakers will rebound, make it back to the finals, and
overcome that label like those `84 Lakers.

By the end of the `84 season, Magic, Kareem, and Cooper were the only Lakers on that team
who had really proved themselves at the championship level.

Worthy averaged 14.5 points and 6.3 rebounds that season. He hadn't made an all-star
team yet or achieved anywhere near the level of success we now know him capable of.
I'd say peoples estimation of Gasol's skills are roughly equivalent of the way Worthy was
viewed at the time (of course 20 people are going to call me an idiot comparing Gasol to
Big Game James, but I'm talking Worthy in `84 here, not Worthy with 10 more years of playing,
4 championship rings, 7 all-star appearances, and 1 finals MVP. All of that happened years
later.

It was Byron Scott's rookie season. And he performed well for a rookie, averaging 10.6 points. He was a confident player, some would even say cocky.

Michael Cooper was a great 6th man, and known as a defensive stopper, but much of his
reputation was to come in subsequent years guarding Bird or DJ in the finals.

But anyone who was a Laker fan at that time will tell you that the story running in the media
at that time was that the Lakers were soft, and they'd never be able to beat the stronger
Celtic defense. It was when they played the Celtics (and Philadelphia and Detroit) in several
NBA Finals and won several championships that those players you mentioned EARNED their
reputation of one of the greatest teams ever assembled.

But after the `84 finals, people were saying they were a "finesse" team who would never
be able to match the Celtics strength and intensity.

They were wrong.

Let's go C's,

You should move here to SHACK'S AZ!! That's where the sorry CELTIKS will be all next season anyway!! GNASH will embarass paula and kaygee the traitor!!!

Move to SHACK'S AZ!!! There's some GOOD VIBRATIONS for you there!!! FEEL IT, FEEL IT!!!

hahahahahahaha!!!

CELTIKS STINK!!!!!