More "stuff people said" (Game 4)
Although not much "more," as both teams didn't practice and no players were made available. For the Lakers, the decision to simply watch film and call it a day was one Phil Jackson came up with last minute (and one I wouldn't have minded being privy of before trekking to El Segundo, but it's not like I like had anything else going on and gasoline has never been cheaper, so oh well). Anyhoo, transcripts were made available for him and Doc Rivers. Have at 'em.
AK
Phil Jackson
Q. Are you considering any lineup changes or rotation changes for the next game?
PHIL JACKSON: No, not at this point. But we're likely to do -- pull out everything as this series goes along.
Q. When did you decide to cancel practice today, and why?
PHIL JACKSON: You know, just in the checking out how the guys were and how they felt, I just felt it was a good idea. We have to two days to work on things we need to work on. We have guys that are well-conditioned at this time, and we need rest and recuperation in this situation, probably more psychologically than we do physically.
Q. I think Kobe said that you didn't say much to them last night after the game in terms of getting them up for the next game, and I assume you've had no communication with them today. What are you thinking in terms of getting them up? Are you getting them up or are they supposed to get themselves up?
PHIL JACKSON: Well, these young men are really resilient. That's one of the things I think I mentioned last night. I don't think there's any doubt that if we had to play this morning, we probably wouldn't feel that great about playing this morning, but fortunately we're not playing until Sunday, and we'll be back ready to go on Sunday.
I just told them as a team, they had their heart ripped out. It's tough to recover from that, but they will. This thing is not over, and we want to force the action, want to continue to force the play.
Q. Kareem had said out in the parking lot that the players did come in and you talked to them this morning; is that correct?
PHIL JACKSON: That's right.
Q. Can you maybe relay a little bit of the overall message and how they were feeling, that sort of stuff?
PHIL JACKSON: I told them that the series is not over and we want to force the action (laughter).
Q. In hindsight looking back at last night, anything you think you could have done differently? How much responsibility do you take for what happened last night?
PHIL JACKSON: Well, expanding on what I told the team, I said, I think everybody who has a part of this, from Rudy Garciduenas, who's our equipment manager, probably thought he put the wrong Tide in the uniforms. Everybody that feels like they did something they could have done to help the team and weren't able to help the team has to consider that. That's what you mull as a coach over in your mind at 1:00 or 5:00 in the morning after a situation like that, what could have we done differently.
But the other aspect is that you've got to give credit when credit is due.
Q. After the game Kobe obviously was probably joking with the self-medication, a few beers, some wine. Any concern about that with their hearts being ripped out?
PHIL JACKSON: No, I think that they looked clear-eyed today for the most part. They looked relatively clear-eyed. We watched some tape, we looked at the first half.
Obviously we were successful in the first half and did some things that got a lead for us, and I wanted to explain to them that they were the same ballclub, the same personnel that went out there in the second half, and if they can get that kind of a lead, they can maintain that kind of a game if they really put their minds to it.
Q. Knowing Kobe as a competitor, the report is that Pierce wanted to guard Kobe in the second half. When that information gets back to him, what do you expect out of Kobe coming into Sunday, if anything, different?
PHIL JACKSON: I think more or less that's not going to be as much of an interest point to him as probably what Garnett said, and that'll probably weigh strongly with Kobe, than that aspect, that Pierce wanted to guard him.
Q. It was sort of a chess match as far as Doc deciding to move Paul onto Kobe after Ray was there. Is there a way you can sort of look at video and decide there's a better way to get Kobe some better looks? Is there something you can do?
PHIL JACKSON: You know, I think they've had many match-ups over the course of the years. There's nothing unusual. All Paul did was try to deny him the basketball and use his length to deny the ball to him. It wasn't particularly that action.
Kobe didn't score the first half and we had an 18-point lead. He didn't score a basket the first half. We wanted to reiterate that, that we can still win this ballgame if we play the way we did the first half. That's something that's important for us as a team to understand.
Q. You mentioned what Kevin Garnett had said. For some of us who aren't aware exactly, what did he say?
PHIL JACKSON: They're in the transcripts if you want to read the transcripts.
Q. In looking at the game film, what jumps out at you in that second half, maybe two or three things?
PHIL JACKSON: Well, there's some little things that jump out. I mentioned last night that Pau had a situation where he had a dunk and it came out or it was blocked or there was a foul; there's action in that situation. He didn't go perhaps hard enough to the basket in one of those situations. But that turned out to be a critical play. That's right where we could have gone from 12 to 14 and instead we go from 12 to 10, or 14 to 16, and it went back to 14 to 12.
There's some little key plays right there at the end of the third quarter that changed the energy that they were able to bring, the hope that they were able to bring. Any team that's down that deep says, let's just get it back to 10 points, let's not try to make it up all in a row or in a hurry. Not only were they able to get it back to 10 points, they were able to get it back almost entirely by the end of the third quarter.
Those are the things that inspired their team, and we have to look at that as a critical element. It was still a 10-point lead with 2:02 left in the third quarter, I think. Those are the points of the game that are really important to us.
Doc Rivers
Q. I know you've talked a lot this year about how much Ray has had to sacrifice his game for the other guys, probably more than anyone else. But can you talk about how much he has been able to change what he does, maybe recognize things in his game that he didn't necessarily know existed as much?
DOC RIVERS: Yeah. I mean, he's been great all year. You know, like I said before, I thought -- Kevin you can put in any system. He's just such a versatile player. And Paul had basically been in a system. So Ray was a guy that really had to sacrifice the most. I think really he's learned a lot through this year.
He had been a player at times that, in Seattle especially, when the ball touched his hands, it basically stopped and he got to decide from that point on what happened. You know, it's just not how we've ever played or I've ever coached, and I just thought the ball movement is the key to winning.
You know, to his credit, he's done it. He's struggled with it at times, but he's done it. You know, now he's learning through the offense how to get the catch-and-shoot shots, how to move the ball and get it back and get into pick-and-rolls. So he's been fantastic in that.
Even at this stage of his career that he's been able to do that and sacrifice to be able to do that has been tremendous. And then on the other end I think he's been more impressive. He's never been known as a defender, and he's been fantastic in this series guarding Kobe, even though guarding Kobe is tough, and throughout the playoffs. So yeah, I'm very happy for him.
Q. He called off the pick last night, took it to the hole. I mean, is he much more inclined to do that sort of thing?
DOC RIVERS: Well, he actually likes picks more, and I liked his thought process. He liked the match-up because of the spacing. We had all shooters on the floor, and instead of bringing another defender in that they can trap, Kevin may have been the roll guy that was open, but may not have been. He liked his chances in the one-on-one situation, feeling that if he did beat him off the dribble, it was a great chance that there would be no help, and Ray was right in the decision.
Q. Ray Allen said last night after the game that it meant a lot to him when he heard Paul Pierce say that he wanted to guard Kobe, really said a lot about Paul, and will we see that match-up again tomorrow?
DOC RIVERS: Well, you'll see everybody on Kobe, just like it's been. I don't think one guy can guard Kobe throughout one entire game. I'm sure Ray was extremely happy when Paul said that because that meant that he didn't have to guard him for a while (laughter). You know, truth be told, it probably is the reason Ray was able to play 48 minutes.
You know, if he had stayed on Kobe throughout the game, I don't think he would have been able to get through the entire game.
The fact that Ray had strength at the end of the game, I thought, had a lot to do with Paul guarding Kobe, and that allowed Ray to get some rest.
Q. A lot of guys want to be the one to take the shot, but here's a guy, one of your best players, that wants to be the shut-down guy.
DOC RIVERS: Well, we've preached it all year, and we talk about it all the time, that for us to win games, it's going to be the guy that gets the stop and the team that gets the stop, not the guy that makes the shot. And the fact that Paul wanted to do that is great.
Q. Two questions: One, can you tell us the story behind the story of taking the big three out on the duck tour, the parade route before the season began? That, and do you realize that the coaching job you did last night was one of the greatest coaching jobs of all time?
DOC RIVERS: I can answer the second one. I don't realize that and I don't know if that's true. The way I look at coaching is the players make the shots at the end of the day.
But the duck tour was just -- you know, hell, I had been sitting in that apartment watching the freaking duck tours where the Red Sox go on them and Patriots have been on them, and I just thought it was important for the Celtics, those three guys, because through them you can sell it to the team. I just thought it was important that they saw the route. Paul knew about it. Paul has been in Boston for so long, but Kevin and Ray, I think they thought we were going on a historic trip of Boston. I don't think they really got it at first until we explained to them what we were doing.
It was a fun trip. I'm glad we did it.
Q. Obviously you and your dad shared a very special relationship throughout your life. Have you been able to take a moment or two in this run, especially on a Father's Day weekend, to think about? A, what it would have meant for him to see you here and on the cusp of this, and the lessons that you learned from him, what are a couple things that have always sustained you that you took from your dad? We can come back to that, if you want to.
DOC RIVERS: (Silent pause). Yeah, that's just a tough one for me to talk about.
Q. I know you don't want to look forward, but if you'd please indulge us here with kind of an eye on history, might you coach this next game with a cigar in your jacket pocket?
DOC RIVERS: No (laughing), I will not. I do -- I mean, Red is always on our mind, obviously. But no, I won't do that. As far as we are concerned, we have to win a game, and the next game is our focus.
You know, it's very important for us that when you look at this series, any of the games besides probably Game 2, even though they came back, could have gone either way. So this is a close series in our minds.
We have to just focus on that process. We can't look at anything more than that. I think it's very important for our team.
To go back to my dad, he's just very important in my life. It's still very difficult for me to talk about because I haven't had a lot of time, really, to reflect on it. You know, it happened during the season unexpectedly. It's very, very difficult. But I do think about it. I think about it a lot.
Q. Getting back to Ray, when he went through that slump there in the second round, especially against Cleveland and Game 1 against Detroit, people were wondering what happened to him, what happened to his shot. How did he handle that, how did he get through that, and talk about his attitude and the way he's now playing.
DOC RIVERS: I thought he was great. I thought Ray was -- you know, it's difficult for a great player to struggle at all, and especially to struggle on a big stage and hear about that he doesn't have it and all that. You know, I just kept telling Ray, just do what the team needs and don't try to get yourself off. Try to just keep making plays for the team, and it's going to come; it's going to happen, it's going to break for you. And it did, and so I'm very happy for him.
A lot of players I don't think could have done that, and Ray saw the bigger picture than the picture of him, so it was great for him. He's a great shooter. You don't forget how to shoot, and you knew that. He needed a couple to go down for him, and they started going down. Once they started going down, you felt really good about it.
Q. What do you know about coaching a team in the playoffs and in The Finals that you didn't know at the beginning of all this?
DOC RIVERS: I don't know. It's still just a game at the end of the day. What you know is your team. You don't know the other team; you don't really know the other coach. You respect the other team, and obviously I have a tremendous amount of respect for the other coach.
Having said that, at the end of the day, I'm coaching my team, and it doesn't matter if we're in the parking lot or Game 1 in the first round or Game 7 or 6 or 5 or 4 in The Finals. You're just coaching your team.
There's more of this, and there's clearly more attention paid to decision-making and all that, but it still doesn't waver what you do. You're going to do your job and the best that you can, and if it's good enough, great. And if it's not, as long as you felt like you did your best, that's all you can do in these things.
That's what I've told my players throughout this series, just do your job and let's hope it's good enough.
Q. What part of this job of coaching do you do best in relation to your team?
DOC RIVERS: Oh, I don't know. I have a great relationship with the players, and I just ask them to sacrifice. I know it's difficult. I think everybody wants to play. When we moved guards around yesterday from Rajon to Sam to Eddie, a lot of teams you would have seen guys throwing tantrums and all that, and our team has been good that way all year.
We've decided each game as an individual game, and whoever fits our team that night to help us win is going to play. That's all you can do.
Q. You played against and coached against Michael. And you know that Kobe always gets compared. He takes three shots -- three points the first half, no baskets last night, you know that. He winds up getting criticized by some people for not taking over the game. From your perspective as an opponent and an observer, what do you expect out of a guy like that and how fair is it for him to have to carry that kind a burden?
DOC RIVERS: It's not fair. I said it before the series started. I've never seen a guy this talented get criticized as much as he does. It's just completely unfair. He's a great basketball player, the greatest player right now in our league and probably top three or five in the history of the game in a lot of ways.
He is, he's just a criticized player. When you look at the shots he made down the stretch of the game last night, he only does it every night. He's just a terrific player. He's driven like no other, and I think his drive -- Will Perdue is back there. I know at times Michael got on his teammates, too, and that's what all the great ones do. But when they do it and things don't work, they're usually the guy criticized for it.
I don't know. I love him as a player. I don't know Kobe very well as a person, but when I've been around him, I've loved him that way, too.
Q. It took Michael seven years to win a championship. In your observation of it, was there a point where you saw something in him that he had kind of calibrated it and figured it out to get him over the hump, and is Kobe in need of that or not?
DOC RIVERS: Well, he's won three already, so he knows how to win. He's been a winner, and that's why -- we're up 3-1 and we know that we have a lot of basketball to play because Kobe is on that team. He's the scariest player in the NBA, in a lot of ways, so you're fearful of him all the time. You should be, a respectful fear.
Having said that, I don't know, I think that Kobe has shown that he can trust his teammates and he's done that. He has shown he can be the best defensive player in the league. I don't know what else he can do.
Q. When people made their predictions for this series, were a lot of us too guilty in looking at what happened in the first two rounds of the playoffs and maybe forgetting about the whole body of work, what you guys looked like for the five months previously?
DOC RIVERS: Well, we caused it. We didn't play well in the first two series. I thought it was great for us in the long run, I really do. I said that at the time.
We really hadn't been through anything as a team. We kind of went through the season, we had a little blip right at the All-Star break on the West Coast trip. Other than that, we hadn't really had anything to fight through.
That Game 5 against Atlanta and Game 7 against Atlanta, the Game 5 against Cleveland and Game 7 against Cleveland was great for us, now that we won those games. But I did think it helped our team, and it helped me see how guys reacted in those situations, as well. So if they come up again, you're better equipped to get through it.
The Lakers are a fantastic team, so we didn't find that as a slap that people, most picked the other team. That didn't bother us.
Q. When you got by Detroit, was there any sense you just beat the best team you had to beat, or did you think the Lakers were better than Detroit?
DOC RIVERS: Well, we'll find that out. I'll give you that answer hopefully some other time.
Q. Can you talk a little bit about Eddie House, what you thought you were getting when you signed him, a guy who played for seven teams, seven years, a guy who was able to sit there and not play at all for two games and then come in and do exactly what you need him to do? What's the mentality?
DOC RIVERS: Shooters shoot. I had practice with Eddie this morning, and we were talking about that. He said, listen, you know me, when I come in, if the shot is open, I'll shoot it. That's what I do.
That's true, that's who he is. He can shoot the basketball. He knows he can shoot the basketball, and he knows when he comes in that's probably why we're bringing him in is to shoot the basketball, so he's very comfortable in that role. He has the greatest role of a team player that you can have when you think about it. When you're open, shoot the ball with no hesitation, and that's what he does.
What I'm very happy with him, though, is last night especially, we were able to keep him on the floor through pressure and he was able to get us in our sets. That's something -- that's the reason he hasn't played point a lot in his career, and he did that last night with Farmar's pressure. Farmar is a terrific defender, so that's where I was happy with Eddie.
Q. And yet he hasn't been able to stick with other teams and he sees Sam come in, and for a while Sam had been getting minutes.
DOC RIVERS: Yeah, and that is due to point guard play. He's proven here and there that he can. There's games in the playoffs where the pressure obviously against Lindsey Hunter, that bothered him, and we've had to take him off the floor. If we feel we can run our offense with Eddie, he's always on the floor. But it's when teams take us out of it due to Eddie that he can't.
The other thing Eddie has done that every coach in the past has told me is that he won't defend.
He's been a great defensive player. He was terrific last night with his energy. You know, at the end of the day, I think a lot of these guys, when they decide to just have one single-mind sacrifice for the team and stop thinking about individual stuff, they become pretty good basketball players.
Q. In the past or last year, your coaching ability was questioned. Now there's whispers and statements that you're out-coaching Phil Jackson. How do you feel about that?
DOC RIVERS: I don't think it's true. I mean, Phil to me is the best coach, at least of my generation, to coach, him and Pat Riley and Gregg Popovich are the three best. I'm not in that class and don't deserve to be in that class. I ignore it.
But last year was a tough year. It was a tough year for me as a coach. It was a tough year for our players as players, and hell, I'm thankful that Danny hung in there with me more than anything.
Q. On a different note, is there any concern, if this series does continue, about your team breaking down? We saw Perkins, Rondo obviously and even Pierce with his knee.
DOC RIVERS: Well, we're not in great physical shape, there's no doubt about that. You know, but that's what it is, and there's nothing you can do about that. I think our guys are mostly gamers. The fact that Rajon tried to go last night, again, was phenomenal. Perk, obviously the injury he had last night could be significant, and we don't know the results yet. But that's clearly not looking great right now.
Paul tweaked his ankle and his knee again, so it's amazing going through this. That's part of it. It's a lot of physical and mental things that you have to go through, and we're going through it.
Q. A question somewhat similar to what you were just asked, was there ever a point last year where you thought maybe this isn't going to work out for me in Boston?
DOC RIVERS: No, I didn't ever think about that part because that was out of my control. It really was. I didn't have control over that part. All I can do is my job. Again, when I go back on last year, the thing that I'm most proud of is that when a lot of teams have that type of turmoil and those type of losses, all you read about is usually the fights in the locker room, the whispers from -- we didn't have any of that. Our players stuck together through that horrendous year.
So when I look back on that, I thought, well, in that way we did well as a staff. And I thought our young players were getting better. I just tried to focus on that. I could see we weren't going to win a lot of games, clearly, and my goal was to make each young player better, and those guys are with me all the time. I talk to them still. None of them are here. They're all gone, but they've all been to our games. I think you've seen them at the playoff games, they've all been there, and that's pretty cool.
Q. You mentioned Pop, and you said how good a coach was Pop before he got Tim Duncan, and you said don't judge me until I get the tools. Is it fair to judge you now?
DOC RIVERS: I don't care to be judged, honestly. This is a players' game. It always will be, and it really should be. They did not invent this game for us to be talking about coaches, and I believe that. I truly believe that. But it is, it's a players' game, and our job is to get the players to play. That's our job.
Q. From someone who never got a chance to win a championship as a player, I wonder if you could put into perspective the unique opportunity Paul has here to win a championship in his hometown.
DOC RIVERS: Well, you know, as a player, I had one shot and I was injured. With the Knicks, I was sitting on the bench, and I watched us lose Games 6 and 7 in street clothes. That was very difficult. We lost to the Bulls -- thank you, Will Perdue, when we were up 2-0 against them and they came back and won the Eastern Conference Finals against us. So to be able to do it against a hometeam, where you grew up, would be sensational.
I had that opportunity in some ways because I thought we were going to knock off Chicago, but we didn't. So I'm sure Paul feels that way.
But really, I'm hoping that Paul is not even thinking about any of that. We've got to just focus on the process of basketball, and once we do that, then everything else will take care of itself.
Q. Just curious, could you go through your relationship with Paul since you've been in Boston, and especially over the last year and how his leadership role has kind of changed over that time?
DOC RIVERS: Well, obviously when we first started it wasn't great because I asked him to change his game. You ask an All-Star to change your game, it's probably not the smartest thing for a coach to do. But I thought it was the right thing for the team, and I thought it was the right thing for Paul. And he didn't at the time, but he did early -- even in that year he did, and the credit goes to Paul for doing it. I mean, that's a hell of a chance to take. You're an All-Star and I'm telling you you have to change your game in some ways, and he did that, as far as just the ball movement part of it and where he was getting his shots from.
Since then he's been very good. He's been frustrated at times over the last two years, not towards the coach, just towards the losses. You know, we've had a lot of private conversations over that, just hanging in there. But like I said before the series or one of these series -- they all blend together -- I don't think Paul got enough due for re-upping with us when he clearly could have waited and been a free agent. He whispered it at times, but for the most part he wanted to stay here and be a Celtic and not leave and see this through.
We're in a generation now that whenever your team is bad, the players want to leave. They want to jump ship. They want to go somewhere else. I think Paul never did that. He wanted to stay.
Will, you can ask the last question.
Q. Thanks, Doc. By the way, Michael did yell at me and so did you. Everyone is talking about the players, and I remember when we were in San Antonio you used to give me a hard time about that Knicks series and about how we stole a championship from you. Considering how close you were as a player, and you and I had this discussion, a two-part question: You say it's a players' league, so what's more difficult, coaching the Orlando Magic to .500 and getting to the playoffs, or coaching the Boston Celtics with the expectations of getting to where you are now and winning a championship?
DOC RIVERS: Well, it's a good question. I would say this is more difficult because there's better players that you have to get to buy in. That Orlando team was just a bunch of guys who wanted to make it in the league, and you could basically turn them up and let them go and they'd run through a wall for you.
The problem with that team was with two minutes left in the game, you didn't have a lot of options. The great part of this team is you have a lot of options. You've been in the league, and most of you guys have been in this league long enough to know that unless the players decide they want to win together, you can have all the talent in the world and you're not winning in this league, you're just not. And guys have to sacrifice.
Someone asked about Ray. To me he stands out as much as anybody. Obviously Kevin and Paul and everybody, but Ray had to do it, and he did it.
Q. Considering what you've been through, though, how does this validate you now as a coach?
DOC RIVERS: I don't know. I don't care, honestly. I love coaching. I honestly love coaching. I love what I do as a profession. It's very difficult family-wise because even if you're with them, you're not. Even when you're there, you're not. It consumes you 24 hours. That's actually what I like about it.
You know, I just enjoy what I'm doing, and I'll leave it at that.
There’s no joy in Showville
The Lakers have just wanked out
Posted by: Bill Hinchberger | June 13, 2008 at 04:14 PM
Man, im so dissapointed.
Its not that we lost, its how we lost. Any one who knows anything about basketball should have known the lakers were simply not gona beat Boston. Personally, when we played Utah i felt this team wasn't ready. Pau got exposed for his weaknesses, and when we beat SA I felt SA ran out of steam more than anything else. We got a very good team, but a very young team. We're still not ready so the fact taht we lost doesn't suprise me much.
However, how we lost really hurts. We simply never competed agaisn't boston. The whole series it just felt like boston was the better team, and I felt that we could have given a better effort all along.
I'm proud of my team for a remarkable season, and a great run. Im proud the way they ressurected this great franchise. I enjoyed every game, every quarter, every 24 second possesion. I cheered on every dribble and every shot, and most importantly every rebound and block. Despite it all seeing this team give up this huge lead last night hurt. It hurt to watch kobes legacy get tainted this way, and it hurt watching this great franchise get embarrassed like this.
But in the end i will be sitting in the same spot, wearing the same laker jersey, drinking the same drink come sunday afternoon. I will cheer once again. And i will wait till the clock gets to zero before turning off the TV, win or loose. And if this team does fall on sunday, i will be there, just like ive been there through worse times, because thats what a True Laker Fan does.
Go Lakers...
Posted by: TrueLakerFan | June 13, 2008 at 04:18 PM
What a depressing turn of events. I think we have to give credit to Pierce, KG, and the rest of the Celtics for playing some serious lock down defense.
I know it is probably wishful thinking but it takes 4 wins to actually take the series and the Lakers are capable of winning three in a row if they play with passion and precision.
One has to wonder if this team had its heart ripped out after a loss like this or whether they are capable of turning the anger and disappointment into motivation to protect our home court and then prove their mettle back in Boston.
One posession at a time. One dribble at a time. There are many reasons not to believe...but damn it...there are no reasons to give up! I would rather go down swinging than crying.
Boston is a great team. Let's show them that we are too!
Go Lakers!!!! Forever.
Posted by: thedropper | June 13, 2008 at 04:25 PM
Charles,
In the words of Jefferson Airplane, "Go ask Alice. Feed your head. Feed your head.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | June 13, 2008 at 04:27 PM
I guess Doc had a lot to say.. ......
I feel bad for this group of players. Mostly because everyone rips on them so bad. They have a good chemistry, and I like their overall attitude. Whatever happens Sunday, these guys will have grown a lot. As young as they are, they have done a phenomenal job this year, and it still isn't over.
Posted by: spokanlakerfan | June 13, 2008 at 04:29 PM
Rick Friedman,
I am the Walrus!
Nice one!
Posted by: Charles | June 13, 2008 at 04:37 PM
I BELIEVE!
Now is the chance to truly write history.
Go LAKERS!
PRIDE!
Posted by: Laker Fan 24 | June 13, 2008 at 04:40 PM
The Celtic's killed our season last night...
But the corpse is still wiggling!!
The Celtic's may be vampires, or werewolves, or Frankensteins, or, in Kg's case, Creatures From The Black (Mood) Lagoon...
But Zombies are scarier, my friends. Zombies are scarier by far.
Silver bullets don't work. A stake through the heart? Fahgehdahboutit! Holy water, crosses, villagers with pitchforks - these mean nothing to Zombies.
The only way the Celtic's can put us down, and OUT, is with chainsaws and axes and a crate of C-4. Hans Blix had better be TRIPPIN' over their WMD over there, because Zombies are damned hard to kill.
Damned hard.
Bleeding (and crying) Purple and Gold,
Karyanr
Posted by: karyanr | June 13, 2008 at 04:43 PM
REPOST
I needed a break from the blog today but came back to share my less angry thoughts; I wish i could have called in sick today, because I needed the day off. Alas, I came in anyway and my job performance has been sub-riduculous. I know I shouldn't let things that are out of my control get to me, but oh well, I guess I'm one of those people who just loves too much.
I've been a huge supporter of KB, LO and PG, and that's not going to change, regardless of this series. I'd like to see the latter two learn from this, and I don't think it's too late. KB24 is a hero and MVP, but he's not God. He's a man who is amazing at the game he plays, but he is capable of being beaten and outplayed on rare occasion. Paul Pierce and the rest of the defense saw to that; Kobe's teammates weren't able to shoulder the burden, plain and simple. While I'm disheartened by the loss last night (loss seems too mild for what happened at Staples), I'm encouraged by everything that lead up to last night. I'm far more disgusted by the pseudo-fans who've been diving off the bandwagon they just got on, and as far as I'm concerned, stay off for good. This team was considered a disaster in October, a 30-1 shot to win the title, and if we come up short, we had a damn good chance to win it. For God's sake, we won the ridiculously challenging Western Conference from teams that everybody considered our superiors for most of the season. KB24 won the MVP Award, something we fans have been dying to see happen. We shut the haters up until the Finals, and we unleashed the makings of another dynasty on the NBA world. Somehow, a lot of you have forgotten all that in your disappointment over the last several games. Stop looking at things through pessimistic-colored goggles, and realize the blessing that the '07/08 season has been for Lakers basketball. I'm pissed about last night, I'm sad, hurt and more emotional than I should ever be about a sport. However, all of that negativity can't come close to blotting out my true love of this team and what the last few months have meant to me as a Lakers fan. Try to remember that before you start typing the Fire PJ, Trade Everybody, LO Sux, or Kobe isn't MJ crap.
To the true Lakers Fans on this blog, like Mamba, Jon K, PsychoticLakerGirl and all the others near the top of the roll call, I thought of you often last night, and though my suffering was agonizing, I took solace in the knowledge that my fellow brethren were on the same painful journey and were there with me in spirit to share my suffering.
As for you trolls, and we all know who you are, you have no love for your franchise; you got an assist from the 80s team this season, but I give props to the players for a well-played season and playoffs. If you remember the days of Dave Cowens, KC Jones, Gerald Henderson and Dennis Johnson and have kept your green flags flying through the two-decades old famine in the Garden, I'll respect your dedication. However, most of you trashed your Larry Bird posters and your Johnny Most tapes years ago, if you're old enough to remember who they are, and you've shown up on our sacred blog with no desire but to bring down a group of loyal fans who for the most part have taken the high road when it came to our adversaries. You come to gloat, like the foolish Suns, Jazz and Spurs fans before you, and you were damned close to being banished to the same purgatory as them. Enjoy your moment of glory, because it's going to be as short-lived as the one the Heat had a couple of years ago and the fall will be even more painful for you sorry lot of losers. But that's okay, because losing is never as painful when you're a short-term resident of a bandwagon instead of a long-term citizen of a team's Fan Nation. You can move on to rooting for the Sox without knowing the true pain of the Bucky Dent homer or for the Patriots without knowing how tough it was to lose to the Bears back in January 1986. You are like a plague of locust, a pack of moronic parasites, or a band of wayward gypsies, content to inhabit a spot until the resources are gone and then move on to another spot. You are truly godforsaken people, and I feel blessed to know that you can hurt me with your rude gloating during my moment of pain but that I can't do the same to you - you have no true love, no heart and no understanding of what it truly feels like to watch your champions fail so tragically. Post to your hearts' content, because in your sad and pathetic little lives, nothing of value exists to replace the feeling you get from pouring acid on someone's raw skin.
Mamba, add me to any bandwagons you have going. I'm with the rest of you in feeling down but never hopeless. Go Lakers!
Posted by: Tully Moxness | June 13, 2008 at 04:44 PM
Condolence to the family of Tim Russert 58 whose son just graduated at Boston College. Also another long timed golf announcer, Charlie Jones also died yesterday.
******************************************************************
OK, we in the blog agree that we can still win it all 3 in a row with this team IF THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR ATTITUDE. Allow me to bring you back in march and summarize their shortcomings.
Firstly, There was a thread last March where Jon K , me and others were severely criticized for blaming the medical staff on Bynum's rehab. Some people maintained it has nothing to do with the MD's and Bynum is not really needed in the playoffs. WRONG, his services are needed big time because the Lakers do not have a legitimate C in the line up. They have four 7 footer but only Bynum plays as a true Center, the others are lame, slow, weak and small.(Turiaf) . Being an avid follower of the Lakers all the way back the Philippines since 1969 when I graduated my bachelors, I selldom fail with my analysis even if I did not play professional basketball here and abroad. Let's be objective and let the criticisms lay down where they belonged. You cover your mistakes when you win, and magnify them when you lose, that's no fairweather, that's reality.
Secondly, I am one of the regulars who always made stirring criticisms on every Lakers losses, we're called as fairweather bandwagoners, who cares. what kind of F-fans we are? as long we are after the truth and for the good of the team, that's good enough. Earlier I said, Lakers weakness lack of hustle were manifested not only last night but in the six losses in March to Kings, Blazers, Warriors, Bobcats, Grizzlies, Hornets. Five of these teams did not make the playoffs. All of those losses have one common denominator, Lakers were a good team but they lacked hustle, too dependent on Kobe, too stubborn on part of PJ to change his predictable rotation or triangle and too much reliance on underachieving players. OK, it was season games, he was teaching them to play better in the next round. In the playoffs, it showed again in the Utah series, comouflaged in WCF but so glaring Game 2 & 4 in the Finals.
What is the best remedy for this team now? If they're playing under a repressive government, like the Saddam regime, their livelihood would be affected. However they lived in a free world, the most condemnation will be severe embarrassment and loss of bragging rights in their career. To an irresponsible individual or player, that's, no biggie.
Looking at the game yesterday, here is how I will attack it: Who gave us the 24 lead in the first two quarters? It was Kobe, Fisher, LO, Pau and Vlad. Have you noticed those three bigs are confident when they play together? When one is lacking, the other two cannot compete effectively with the bigs of Celtics. OK, there had to be changes due to fouls or stamina. Well, don't do it wholesale, even if Doc Rivers would put his bench play 7 or 8 reliable players only. If you noticed Farmar, Sasha, Luke, Turiaf do not work well together, then just maintain one player and go back to the initial rotation that works, perhaps insert Ariza to rest Kobe. PJ was playing match game as if his bench mob matches with the veterans of Celtics. Analyze what the team needs not just the match up, we lack rebound put in Mbenga with four starters or Turiaf with four starters. We need hustlers, put in Newball and four starters etc. Don't leave two bench players weak in offense together for long minutes.
Lastly, Kobe has to follow the coaching instructions or game plan or else bench him.
If those recommendations don't change the mindset of Lakers attitude, then it's F/O problem to tweak the undesirables.
Even if you insert Bynum and Yue next year if the attitudes remains with the team then, it will poison the good players that are coming aboard. As a poster play when a medium speed player as big as Ray Allen cannot be stopped from the top of the post & he continues his attacks down to the hoop with a 7 footer waiting for him and he has no fear..... then that sums up the Lakers problem.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 13, 2008 at 04:47 PM
So, what did Garnett say about Kobe? After reading what Phil said, I must say, I'm very curious.
I don't see him quoted anywhere in either of the two "Stuff people said (Game 4)" threads.
Can someone please fill me in?
Posted by: BynumBeliever | June 13, 2008 at 04:50 PM
After watching the C's play this series, I'm SOOOO glad we didn't trade for Garnet. As good as he is, he's not the reason the C's are beating us. I'd much rather have a healthy and much younger Bynum and Odom and whoever else (Kwame?) we were thinking of trading for him.
Bynum should have 3 or 4 (at least) more rings than Garnet will get.
Posted by: rdlee | June 13, 2008 at 04:56 PM
Next year...
http://tinyurl.com/5mornf
Posted by: ShowtimeTake2 | June 13, 2008 at 05:03 PM
Okay, just one more thought from me, and then, seriously, I'm done for awhile...
Four close games. Four games decided in the last two minutes. Two evenly matched teams. A rebound here, a missed three there, a no-call here, a 'and-one' there, a missed goal tend, a clutch three.
They've played 16 quarters, and the Lakers have been within about ten possesions of SWEEPING them for the title. Wah-wah, I know, because they've been within about four possessions of sweeping us. That's just how it is with close games.
But how crappy for Boston, to be coronated as World Champions already (0-28), but to still have to win another one of these nail-biting contests? No pressure, fellas! If they win, well, it's because they already won the whole shebang Thursday night.
But if they lose three straight? Now THAT's and albatross I woundn't want hanging around my neck for the rest of my Billy Buckner career.
(Bill-Buckner-Bill-Buckner-Bill-Buckner! That just makes me feel better right now. Bill-Buckner-Bill-Buckner!)
These teams are pretty evenly matched, and everybody knows it. The Leper-cons' luck hasn't always been...or stayed...this good (Len Bias, Reggie Lewis, Eric Montross).
True, they have the Ghost of Red Auerbach.
But the Ghost of George Mikan could whip his silly ass!
LAKERS' FANS! SAY IT TOGETHER! SAY IT LIKE YOU MEAN IT! AND THE 'GOD OF THE BOUNCING BALL' WILL HEAR YOU!
BILL-BUCKNER-BILL-BUCKNER-BILL-BUCKNER-BILL-BUCKNER-BILL-BUCKNER-BILL-BUCKNER-BILL-BUCKNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: karyanr | June 13, 2008 at 05:07 PM
That Bill Buckner bit above is hysterical
thanks!
Lane
http://LosAngelesSource.com
Posted by: Lane | June 13, 2008 at 05:26 PM
I wonder if Phil will play Mihm and/or Mbenga, and give Ariza extended minutes. If he will, than, to me, it will be a signal that he's being outcoached by Doc Rivers. You can't really make these kind of changes for the first time in the elimination game
Posted by: tim | June 13, 2008 at 05:41 PM
I STILL BELIEVE!!!
WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY!!!
PUT ME ON THE "WE STILL BELIEVE BANDWAGON!"
GOOOO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: GameFaceON | June 13, 2008 at 05:44 PM
Bynum Believer,
"So, what did Garnett say about Kobe? After reading what Phil said, I must say, I'm very curious."
I'm actually not sure what the writer was referring to when he asked Phil that question. I asked a few other people and they didn't know, either. Other than saying that Kobe tends to take over games down the stretch and that Pierce did a pretty good job defending him (neither of which strikes me as "bulletin board" material), KG didn't mention Kobe at all.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | June 13, 2008 at 06:06 PM
Tulley Moxness
I can just thank you for being a true laker fan. I always read this blog but rarely write, you said it right no one and I mean NO ONE at the beging of the seasen would have thought our beloved LAKERS will come this far but mark my words next year if healthy NOBODY will stand in our way. To finish off I have to say when we were up 3-1 against the Suns I new we would lose but I don't know what it is that still I haven't given up hope as bad as it seems we could easly been up 3-1 so everybody lets enjoy Sundays game. You never know what can happen all records always break, if thats the case maybe just maybe this year is the year that teams down 1-3 will be 1-28 in the finals.
Love to all LAKERS fans
Peace
Posted by: kayhan | June 13, 2008 at 06:07 PM
I don't think that it's fair to punish Kobe for the loss or for the series. The Celtics have 3 "go-to" guys where as the Lakers have just one. The Celtics always have one of the big 3 on the floor at all times and can rely on that person to carry the load for stretches. Each of those guys have been the "go-to" guy for a decade for each of their previous teams. It's also unfair to blame Sasha for giving up that basket to Allen at the end of the game. Allen's been that guy for Seattle for 10 years and you can't expect someone like Sasha to guard him man on man without help and not foul him. If it was Kobe going against Pierce at the end, the Celtics would have double or triple teamed him and forced someone else to beat them but the Lakers don't have anyone else to break the defense down and score at the end of games.
Posted by: sclakerfan | June 13, 2008 at 06:11 PM
Look at all these fans giving up on their Lakers, c'mon! Who said this was gonna be easy? I'd rather we have some real competition. It was the Lakers who lost that game. Boston just kept playing basketball, while the Lakers stopped. On Sunday, the Lakers will do what they did in the first half in Game 4, except for the whole game! And then they'll do it again for the 2 games in Boston! Never again will they give up a lead like that! The Celtics are so beatable! The Lakers lost that game themselves. They got to move the ball and attack the hoop for 4 straight quarters! And then they will be the first team ever to come back from 3-1.
They made history. Now it's our turn.
Posted by: ajax | June 13, 2008 at 06:23 PM
Hey Tully,
You are in denial. The Lakers never had a chance of winning this series. they are overmatched. They are at best the 4 best team in the league. Get real!
Posted by: Bear75233 | June 13, 2008 at 06:28 PM
As bad as I felt last night & all day today, I have still not given up hope. I am riding the "I Still Believe" bandwagon.
I also have to tell you that this blog is probably the only place where hope still lives. I can't stand the idiots at work who are all fairweather fans - haven't talked Lakers all year except for recently, and then just to bag on them.
Thank you AK/BK for keeping us up on what's going on.
Thanks to the posters who are still realistic but are not screaming for trades & firings, etc. etc. We know we're in trouble, but we also know that if the guys come out with HEART they can force the series back to Beantown & then we'll see what happens from there.
If they have to go down - and I'm not saying they will for sure - but if they have to go down then I want it to be swinging, fighting, kicking and screaming all the way. I just can't stand the thought of it ending with a whimper.
All that being said, this year is miraculous. NO ONE ever thought we'd be in the FINALS this year! So this is a gift - let's enjoy it while it lasts.
Next year, however, is a whole new ball game!!!!!!!!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | June 13, 2008 at 06:31 PM
Repost
KB
JAY JAY
Didn't say the phony fake foul cost us the game,
just wanted to point out what a true cheat does. I guess if you can't play on the up and up, you cheat. The phony fake foul was acted out in a critical part of the game.
If you can't beat your man on the square PP can always rely on his signature move and a friendly whistle.
About the San Antonio non-call, that was just it. The ref failed to call a foul. There was no deception involved.
BOSTON CELTICS
HIGH-TECH CHEATS AND CHEAP SHOT ARTISTS
GOING OUT WITH CLASS MY ARSE
NOT WITH BONEHEADS LIKE YOU
Posted by: Do You See What I See | June 13, 2008 at 06:35 PM
Okay, it really is time to give this a rest - at least Jeopardy! is on tonight, so that I may further my edge-eh-mah-cay-shun...
But, since the media types have so willingly opened the history books regarding this ancient rivalry...
We have stolen from Boston before. Stolen. Robbed 'em blind:
During the 96-97 season, the Celtics weren't very good. In fact, they were 15-67, which qualifies as downright stinky (when was the last time the Lakers laid that many eggs in one year? NOT IN MY LIFETIME, is the correct answer...) But, even though they sucked harder than a leaky airlock, they did have one pretty good two-way player who averaged 15.4 pts, 5.2 rebs, 3.8 asst, and 2.2 STEALS (2nd in NBA).
Jerry West signed this man as a free agent (and theC's were pretty pissed at the time, if memory serves), and he helped us win 3 rings...and he scored Vanessa Williams in the bargain! Yep, I'm talking 'bout Rick Fox.
We miss you buddy! I still remember Turkoglu's 0-10 with zero points when you locked him down in a crucial playoff game. I remember you getting tossed out of a playoff game in Phoenix, and Harlan commented that "Rick Fox appears to have lost his mind out there!" When the oppenent saw that crazy look in your eye - they knew it - they knew it was time to make some whirpool reservations for after the game, because Rick Fox was about to kick the crap out of them for 4 quarters.
YOU, sir, are what these current Lakers are missing. They are young and long and quick, with shooters and slashers and a proven leader. What they lack is an enforcer - a stocky-strong ass-kicker who doesn't need to score to be a winner!
Ah, the good old days!
ps. (Artest is going to opt out. He's got 11 years in the league with nothin' to show. If Kobe and LO restructure their contracts to free up some $$$ You just know he wants to play in June before his time is up...)
Posted by: karyanr | June 13, 2008 at 06:36 PM
First n foremost people.. I know that loss hurt like hell last night believe me I'm still feeling it..
But we mustn't forget where we are now n where we were last year.. This time last year we weren't even on this blog let alne thinking we'll be playing in The Finals this year.. We were out first round..
Like Kobe said when they won the WCF.. "It jus feels great to be able to compete for a championship"
I know its not an easy task to get where we are now but look and realize where we are.. Jus be happy our team made it this far n look forward to next year.. IF n that's a big IF.. We loose this series.. But we gotta have faith.. N be thankful at the same time..
Take care and everyone n stay postivie.. Mamba.. Add me to the "ITS NOT OVER" bandwagon
Posted by: Cdub0512 | June 13, 2008 at 06:39 PM
karyanr,
"If Kobe and LO restructure their contracts to free up some $$$ "
Can't do that in the NBA.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 13, 2008 at 06:43 PM
THE MAKING OF A BEAST…
I thought nothing in my sports universe could be worse than watching the Yankees blow that 3-0 lead over the Red Sox in the playoffs and then see them go win the world series. I mean, we’re talking about the end to the curse of the Bambino that had locked the Red Sox into decades of futility and frustration on their knees as the Yankee’s bitch.
But the Lakers blowing a 24-point lead in a must-win game in the NBA Finals to go down 3-1 to the Celtics is right up there, another devastating blow to the home team that resuscitated another moribund Beantown sports franchise from decades of impotency. Had the Patriots won the Super Bowl, the world may well have come to an end.
Of course, this all fits perfectly for the conspiracy buffs who are convinced that the NBA is scripted action rather than open competition. Despite the integrity of the game being under fire in refgate, Stern has to be smiling. With the Celtics poised to win the 2008 NBA Championship, the stage is set for another decade of Lakers-Celtics magic. That is the beast that Stern and the NBA have been praying for the last 20 years.
The Lakers, on the other hand, are on their own way to becoming a beast. Whether they can be the first team in the NBA Finals to come back from a 3-1 hole remains to be seen. That they have the most talent in the league is obvious, especially considering that they are missing their second best overall and most dominant inside player on the team.
Which brings us to the Real Beast, Andrew Bynum. It pisses me to no end to keep hearing the damn network announcers and analysts constantly bemoaning the Celtics injury problems while totally ignoring the simple truth that this series would have been a sweep in four games if Andrew Bynum had been able to play for the Lakers.
I have to tell you I love Pau and Lamar but I am so tired of seeing us beaten up inside and taken advantage of that I cannot wait for next year when Andrew takes these Boston fools and every other NBA team to school. I am sick and tired of finesse. I am frustrated to death with weenie shots and unanswered prayers that remind me of Kwame Brown.
There is no player in the NBA today who plays more above the rim than Andrew Bynum. He will become the dominant center in the NBA next year – better than Yao Ming, Dwight Howard, or Greg Oden. Drew will be the top big man offensively, defensively, and on the boards, leading the league in dunks, field goal percentage, blocked shots, and rebounds, and winning his first All-Star selection and MIP and DPOY awards.
The Lakers may still find a way somehow to win a championship this miraculous season.
They do, after all, have the greatest player and greatest coach in the world. But no matter what happens, this will remain one of the greatest seasons in the history of the Lakers. At worst, it will provide this team with great experience and motivation for next year.
I love this team and the incredibly bright future that is in store for Laker fans worldwide. I have not yet read a single newspaper or blog post. I just don’t want to hear any more of the constant negativity or trade talk or doom and gloom groaning. Not when we are the lusted after envy of every other NBA team and fan out there. So let’s act like it!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | June 13, 2008 at 06:49 PM
I am still in shock. I turned off the TV after the first half with the Lakers up 18. Came back and we were up by just 2. I almost died!!!
But these are the no-quit Lakers. We can still come back. Winning 3 straight will erase this memory. Winning 3 straight will be the comeback story for the ages.
GO LAKERS!!!
Sign me up for the ITS NOT OVER bandwagon.
Posted by: The Waterboy | June 13, 2008 at 06:49 PM
Gotta wonder if this AP story is part of a Doc Rivers mind-game with the Zen Master:
"EL SEGUNDO, Calif. - The Boston Celtics bench has been a reliable contributor during the NBA finals, so far. And it’s about to get even more important.
With starters Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo both unable to finish Game 4, and Paul Pierce also injured, the Celtics will be relying on their reserves when they try to close out the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 5 on Sunday night."
Is Doc Rivers saying his scrubs can beat the Laker starters? (Well, they sort of have already, I suppose.) It's time not just to say 'enough is enough,' but to play that way. Take no prisoners. Games 5, 6, and 7 are ours. Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | June 13, 2008 at 06:59 PM
So watching last night's game got me bothered by a few things.
1. Lakers Fans
We all know that the tickets are expensive. So expensive that as the tickets get essentially "auctioned" to the highest bidders only those with huge pocketbooks get to go. This is generally very wealthy old white men and their ladies. While I am not discriminating against them, they are not going to be that loud as fans. They are not Jack Nicholsen. It bothered me that the stadium got the wind "sucked out" like Phil said. A stadium in the NBA Finals should never get as quiet as it did, even when the Lakers were still battling to stay ahead. They were many times were a quick crowd energy boost would have calmed the nerves of a guy like Sasha who would have nailed a three.
2. Pau Gasol
So everybody wants to rip Pau. But here is where I'd like to take a shot at Phil Jackson. I am not a guy to criticize the coach, but this is his mistake. Gasol was brought in to "replace" Bynum who got hurt, but to say they are interchangeable is ridiculous. Bynum is a post player who can also throw it down with some power. Pau is a guy who starts at the midrange or at the key and then either drives in for a floater or hook shot, or hits open jumpers.
When Pau was first on the Lakers, Pau was the Luc Longley of the trianle offense, just way more skilled. Pau could catch and shoot, drive and hook shot, pass the ball, do some quick things with his hands and so forth. But at some point this changed into running these high screen and rolls with Kobe ala Kobe and Bynum were doing in December. Pau is not going to alley oop, but he will step out, drive in and do things that most bigs cant.
Let's put it this way, if Pau was the focus of the Lakers offense, instead of Kobe, he would average about 24 points a game. Pau can get his own shots. He can create by passing, driving doing various of those sorts. I know he can score on KG whenever he wants. But instead, Pau has become so Kobe-centric that his game has suffered. And its hurt him on defense and the glass because hes not getting that offensive mojo.
Remember back to the Phoenix game with Gasol and Shaq. Dont forget that Gasol was doing all sorts of moves to get his own buckets. He did not rely on Kobe. Why this is happening is beyond belief. Pau is not Lamar Odom.
3. Kobe Bryant
For some reason, Kobe has reverted to his 2004 form. Hes trying to do his own thing. Now Kobe is no Magic. Hes not a point guard, which is fine. But unfortuantely, everybody is caught up in the Kobe-facilitator role, that its starting to get predicatable. When I say that Kobe needs to pass the ball, it has nothing to do with literally passing the ball. It means letting guys like Pau or Lamar become the focus of the offense to score. Not having Kobe feed them balls.
Last night it started with Lamar and Pau who are great passers playing off each other being the focal point of the game. But once they relied on Kobe, it fell apart. With a defense like Boston's, going straight to Kobe is too predicatable and easy to defend. Pau and Lamar need some shot clock, but once the ball gets to Kobe, and he burns 10 seconds off the clock after drawing defenders, it puts the rest of the team in a tough position. Thats what stagnates the offense.
When the Lakers play their game, they are tought to beat.But that means Kobe plays his game, Lamar plays his game, and Pau Gasol plays his game. During this Finals, however, they have not been playing their games.
Posted by: The Lake Show | June 13, 2008 at 07:01 PM
Why not just post the video?
http://www.cbs2.com/video/?id=69359@kcbs.dayport.com
Posted by: two0one7 | June 13, 2008 at 07:04 PM
Justanothermambafan,
"If they have to go down - and I'm not saying they will for sure - but if they have to go down then I want it to be swinging, fighting, kicking and screaming all the way."
That's how we should be competing in all games. win or lose we are happy the way you portrayed it. I absolute agree with your remark there.
Like what I said in my other posts if you have a juvenile who is good and a great child, you love him very much but played lousy, lazy and unmotivated speech contest, will you still keep on being a cheerleader on the sidelines or be a disciplinarian by pushing his button to the brink, or just tell it just like what it is. Hey, why not tell what you feel? That's life you win some, you lose some. The most important did you learn something from those victories and defeats.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 13, 2008 at 07:05 PM
ex,
They can sign extensions for more years at less money, much like Shaq did in Miami. I thnk Kobe might opt out and sign a new 7-year deal to retire as a Laker. And Lamar might accept a long-term contract for less per year.
Guys go their entire careers without playing for a ring. These guys are going to want to keep their team together. And for Kobe, it is the ultimate way to buy back a lot of fans who always view him as selfish. It could pay off big for him in endorsements and pr.
Tom
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | June 13, 2008 at 07:16 PM
Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is.
Posted by: Showtime | June 13, 2008 at 07:37 PM
LakerTom,
I have question with regards to CBA rules on trades, can you clear cap space in trading medium cost players with their 1st, 2nd draft picks and in combination of future picks?
If you can't get much out from it then how do you clear cap space like what Jerry West did in 1995, when he dumped Peeler, Lynch etc. without necessarily the team absorbing the cost?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 13, 2008 at 07:40 PM
It might be just me...but I don't particularly care what the opponent is saying. At this point it's about us.
Since Fatty isn't here...I'd like to impart some of his words:
"Never give up,
never surrender"
-Captain Taggart (Galaxy Quest)
Posted by: Faith | June 13, 2008 at 07:42 PM
1-28
Posted by: laker hopeful | June 13, 2008 at 07:49 PM
I wonder if Phil will play Mihm and/or Mbenga, and give Ariza extended minutes. If he will, than, to me, it will be a signal that he's being outcoached by Doc Rivers. You can't really make these kind of changes for the first time in the elimination game
Posted by: tim | June 13, 2008 at 05:41 PM
He is already being outcoached by Doc Rivers. These are things he should have been doing already.
Also I have not read the previous threads yet because I was drained.
I know the Celreftics played very well and the Lakers gave away to many concension dunks for fear of fouls (like Pavlov SP? dogs). The only one saw challenge a shot was derrick Fisher.
But there is no way the Celreftics are a great offensive team to come back from 24 pts down and the Lakers defense so terrible to let it happen.
Two things as I see it is PJ being outcoached and Bets helping Boston all the way to the championship.
I really hope that a Congressional investigation takes place to truly expose and stop this blatantly manipulated product being sold to fans as a true clean product.
This is just plain fraud and a momopoly run by rich executives whose only interest is the bottom line and all the rest be damned.
If they don't investigate then people will get mad and leave for a whille but the NBA will not care because they know you will be back. They are the only (BB) game in town and in time the angry will mellow and return, and they will continue to get richer. Like nothing ever happened.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 13, 2008 at 07:53 PM
Pau Gasol for Ron Artest and a draft pick.
Players the Lakers must pursue, contracts be damned
G. Arenas
C. Butler
Cory Magetti
L. Deng
Posted by: troy | June 13, 2008 at 07:54 PM
LakerTom,
"They can sign extensions for more years at less money,"
Yes, but not for years they are already contracted for.
And they are going to be so far above the luxury tax, they would have to be paying the Lakers before there would be enough room to bring Artest in.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 13, 2008 at 07:57 PM
the day championship basketball died in LA:
http://www.nba.com/heat/news/heat_signs_oneal_040714.html
Posted by: Showtime | June 13, 2008 at 08:03 PM
Lastly, Kobe has to follow the coaching instructions or game plan or else bench him.
If those recommendations don't change the mindset of Lakers attitude, then it's F/O problem to tweak the undesirables.
Even if you insert Bynum and Yue next year if the attitudes remains with the team then, it will poison the good players that are coming aboard. As a poster play when a medium speed player as big as Ray Allen cannot be stopped from the top of the post & he continues his attacks down to the hoop with a 7 footer waiting for him and he has no fear..... then that sums up the Lakers problem.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 13, 2008 at 04:47 PM
I agree with the substitutions you cited (not copied above here) but the part about I feel with the rest I will put my two cents in.
PJ wanted Kobe traded but did not get his way. PJ was brought back with the blessing of Kobe. If JB had to choose between Kobe or PJ, my bet would see PJ in unemployment line.
Kbe has to coach because PJ can't. Yes he goes on binges away from the triangle at times but because mostly it works when the triangle does not. Someone posted a site or blog discussing Jacksons book (I will look for the site) and PJ critcised Kobe for not getting teammates invlved. Kobe shot back and said teach them to play offense.
I don't think PJ has but Kobe sure has. He challenges players sometimes to hard but does not humiliate them. Or call them made up insulting nick names. Space Cadet for one.
I saw Kobe telling Farmar to go to a spot on floor and then kOBE SAID "NOW DON'T POUT" Farmar replied I'm not pouting and Kobe just said go to the spot and walked away. Kobe was hard but not humiliating. PJ would have given him a insulting nick name.
We need a coach who motivates positively like Byron Scott and yes Doc Rivers who said nothing but positive things to his players.
I think Kobe will help the young players and yes Mbenga should have been used to stop penetration. 3-1 tells the tale of the coaching.You hit it on the head when PJ adjusted to their line up to match. He should have substituted to gain advantage.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 13, 2008 at 08:26 PM
karyanr,
"If Kobe and LO restructure their contracts to free up some $$$ "
Can't do that in the NBA.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 13, 2008 at 06:43 PM
I think not. Yes there is a rule not allowing to restructure a contract but in this case it would not be a restructure, it would be a new contract.
Kobe opts out and becomes FA and then is able to sign new contract up or down. Next year LO can do the same. Both can be done to lower pay and then extend years to make sure they don't lose money and allows team to add better FA with lower pay per year.
Player gets longevity and player players to play with for chance to make more money with playoffs and endorsements.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 13, 2008 at 08:43 PM
It's not over.
Not at all.
We are the better team.
Phil Jackson is the better coach.
It's been a weird series.
It's not over.
I will always be a Lakers fan. Always.
Always.
Dynasty begins now.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | June 13, 2008 at 08:55 PM
history is about to be made...
Lakers win the next three!!!
Why not???
GO LAKE SHOW!!
LIGHTS OUT!!!
Posted by: Keifo | June 13, 2008 at 08:56 PM
Well,honestly I expectedtocome on here and read a bunch of disrespectful trash talkin crap that was gonna make me reallybuy into the typical pre-madaonna L.A. attitude stereotype. But after reading your blogs, I kind of realized alot fo you are just like us out here in the east, only living in a different time zone, which makes you have love for a different team.Believe me for years we have all suffered(thoise of us who are true fans,not bandwaggon jumpers) and finally the glorydays have retunred,for how long none of know or want to ask. But I think alot of you were misled by an overzealous and uninformed national basketball media.Which we(the Celtics) are somewhat responsible for due to our poor showing in the opening rounds.But honestly your Laker team is led by one tremendous athlete, and a handful of pretty good offensive players.But Pau gasol I think gave everyone a false sense of low-post hope and empty bigman presence threats. Hes too soft to be the second go-to and main defensive security to guard the paint.No offense, but really, hes no Shaq, Abdul-Jabar or even Kurt Rambis. Anyways i just think it boils down to, the Celts have a much better supporting cast to step in when the big names are hitting. Beleive mew, I amnot a Kobe fan, but he is an unbelievable athlete, and undeniably incredible solo threat.Hes just all alone,and as its showing, hes very frustrated by it. Seriously Sasha Vujacic can't be Kobes Scottie Pippen, hes not even a Toni Kukoc. Anyways COngrats in getting there, the Celts are just all around a little bit better.But believe me, I understand your pain, we only won 24 games last year, and didnt even get a lottery pick!!
Sincerely,
BleedGreenGirl33
Posted by: BleedGreenGirl33 | June 13, 2008 at 08:59 PM
To lighten up everyone's mood a little....
http://www.tmz.com/tmz_main_video?titleid=1604920258
favorite line? As Pau Pierce is stepping on to the bus, somebody yells out: "And the Academy Award goes to??? PAUL PIERCE!!!"
Posted by: bobie | June 13, 2008 at 09:02 PM
KG SAID HE COULD TASTE IT.
Posted by: Chick4ever | June 13, 2008 at 09:13 PM
WAIt a minute...did i just read Andrew Bynum better than Dwight Howard?The best center in the league....Ok the Yao Ming part, I can swallow....dry....but Dwight Howard??I better get one of those real expensive designer, bottled from the natural springs of L.A. bottles of water to get that down.....
Posted by: BleedGreenGirl33 | June 13, 2008 at 09:15 PM
SIGN ME UP TO THE " ITS WAY OVER" BAND WAGON
Posted by: KARL MAOLONE | June 13, 2008 at 09:17 PM
The KG quote in question is undoubtedly this one where the Defensive Player of the Year insinuates that the MVP might have messed up L.A.'s flow in the second half:
“Well, this team is -- if you watch them, if you've paid attention to them all year, usually the first half is team ball, second half is usually Kobe takes over the games … It just looks like they wanted to get the ball to Kobe and him sort of finish it off. That's what it looked like to me. It didn't really look cohesive like they did in the first half.”
Posted by: SALIM YILMAZ | June 13, 2008 at 09:20 PM
HA HA HA Johnny Most is laughing
Posted by: ANIMALSBROTHER | June 13, 2008 at 09:27 PM
Man, what a painful day. I have to change the channel any time there is any Finals coverage. It just hurts too much to watch. I am very curious to see what team comes out on Sunday. One thats beat or one with fire? If we win on Sunday anythings possible, especially if we some how get it to a game seven.
LAKERS YESTERDAY, LAKERS TODAY, LAKERS TOMORROW....LAKERS ALWAYS
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | June 13, 2008 at 09:28 PM
About midway through the game I posted in the game thread I thought the winner of game 4 would also be the winner of game 5.
If I stay with that prediction, I'd better enjoy the last game of the year for the Lakers on Sunday.
The only prediction I will make about game 5 is this:
I'll get flamed for this, but I expect to see Kobe get T-d and ejected in this game no later than early in the fourth quarter. Whether it is by a flagrant-2 or a couple T's from swearing at the refs, he'll get himself an early shower.
Whether the Lakers can go on to win game 5 or not will depend on the rest of the team. In this situation, I think Kobe will "excuse himself". Not very complimentary to the MVP of the league, but this is the senario I honestly see.
Posted by: MiloRambaldi | June 13, 2008 at 09:33 PM
I guess next year we'll find out that the refs were behind the celtics victory thursday night...sure seemed that way to me in the second half. Could Pierce or Allen have committed more fouls on Kobe if they tried...me thinks not. What a farce. I guess they'll do anything to see to it that KG finally gets his undeserved ring...talk about overrated.
Posted by: gdub | June 13, 2008 at 09:45 PM
Win or lose this series, the Lakers will definitely keep the team, for the most part, intact. But I think unless Odom is going to come off the bench, he doesn't really have a spot when Bynum is back. I think if most teams play the Lakers like the Celtics, Jazz, and Spurs did, I don't think that a front line of Bynum, Gasol, and Odom will not be able to stretch out the defense at all and teams will just pack the paint against us. Kobe won't be able to penetrate. In some ways, a tall line-up is good, especially for defense and rebounds, but they really need a small forward who can shoot and play defense in there rather than Odom. If they can't get Artest(I'm not too optimistic), then maybe they should try a line-up of Kobe, Farmar, Sasha, Bynum, and Gasol with Odom coming off the bench.
Posted by: sclakerfan | June 13, 2008 at 09:45 PM
Aloha Everyone,
I am not quite ready to concede defeat yet because all 4 games have been close. I felt before the series that we may have to win 2 in Boston, I just didnt think it would be the last 2. But I have this feeling that if we can get to a game 7(big if) that we will win it. Some of the things I would like to see.
1. D-Fish can not be held out as long as he was. He has always been a clutch player and his calm in crunch time was needed.
2. If Perkins cant play, run the offense through the Lamar in the post. He can post up anyone else that they can put on him. This also takes Pau out of the paint and with his good mid range J, KG has to follow. And please DO NOT take Lamar out when he is on a roll. The guy is an Athelete and can run the entire game. When he is feeling it stay with him, because sometimes like last night he dissapears again when he comes back in.
3. If Trevor plays well in the 1st half again, why not play him in the 2nd, just a thought.
4. I dont know where Cris Mihms ankle is at this time but why not give him a little run to see. At this point it cant hurt. Rony hasnt been great in this series and in Cris you have a guy with game around the basket and another very good passer. Plus if Perkins cant play, Cris can hold his own against Brown in the post.
One last thought on all the Pau is soft I have been hearing. Pau is a forward not a center. Yes he has not had a great offensive series but he has played D well against KG for most of the series and has done pretty well most of the time on the glass. He out played Boozer in the Utah series and held his own against Duncan and the Spurs. And now against KG he has struggled some but come on Duncan, KG and Boozer are only the top 3 power forwards in the league, who could we get who is better? Next year he and Andrew will be an awsome combination. And at only 27 Pau will learn from this and be better.
MH
Posted by: michael h | June 13, 2008 at 10:09 PM
I just got home from my half-country trek to the Staples Center where I attended game 4. Wow - what a bizarre night that was! The night started off great - I literally "bumped" into Magic as I headed to the restroom in the concourse at the luxory suite level, couldn't believe my eyes. Shook hands and took a picture, awesome. Then, off to a great start - 24 point lead - drinking beer, laughing it up as the world appeared to be in perfect order. Then, in the second half, point by agonizing point, the Celtics just kept creeping up closer and closer in the rear view mirror, then the daggers by Eddie House, James Posey and Ray Allen. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I believe we WILL win the next three games. I sensed something about Boston after the game, Pierce was the picture of pure exhaustion, Perkins may be done - I think these playoffs have finally taken a toll on Boston. We lost the battle, but I believe we are on the verge of winning the war. The first two and half quarters exposed some things about Boston - they are getting tired. We made it look easy - then lost our focus. We are desperate now - there will be no loss of focus. Odom will have a huge game on Sunday - count on it. Kobe with his back to wall - it's coming, this will be another "first" in finals history. BELIEVE IT!!!
Posted by: Lincoln Laker | June 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM
The Lakers played loose, in-the-flow basketball during the first half. Transition baskets came one after the other. On Sunday, in a win-or-go-home situation, I expect to see more of that. Four quarters of it. Then four more quarters of it. And, if the stars align, four more quarters of it for the most fantastic, improbable, heart-wrenching, spectacular comeback in NBA history.
1-28. Believe it.
Go Lake Show!
Posted by: The Outlaw | June 13, 2008 at 10:47 PM
One game at a time, three games in a row. Not so hard, is it?
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...
Posted by: Amazing_Happens | June 13, 2008 at 10:50 PM
I don't blame the lost to Gasol or Vlad, they are first year starter. I blame on Phil, Odom ,Luke. Odom and Luke,played with Kobe for 4 years. I stoped believing on Phil when Lakers lost to Detroit in NBA 2004, Larry Brown once said that he did not think Phil would make any adjustments. After Lakers leading 3-1 again Phoenix Sun 2 years ago, the Suns came back and beat Lakers in game 7. Game 3 in Utah, you saw Turiaf, Luke couldn't play . In regular season, one thing i saw very clear, Houston, Portland guards kept driving to the basket, they're not afraid of Turiaf, they are scared to see 7 footer D-Menga in the lane.
_ Before the series started, Lakers had scouting reports of Boston, Phil had 5 days to look at and set up a game plan. Game 1 in Boston, Lakers players were not ready, why???
_ Ariza was available in serie against San Antonio, he did not allow to play, in game 2 against Boston, after Vlad had 2 fouls, Phil threw Ariza out there, Ariza is not NBA veterand 30, 33 years old, no way he can play in the tough situation, why Phil did that ???
_ Don't blame the players soft, they are soft because Phil is too soft, how can Phil allow 37 years old PJ Brown who keeps pushing Gasol from behind, who is big, strong guy of the Lakers bench ? D-Menga, i will let D-Menga give PJ Brown, Garnett hard times on the floor. What about Mimms and Newble, give them a chance to play .Phil allowed Boston to play dirty tricks on Lakers, and Phil had no solutions.
_Game 1 agaisnt San Antonio in LA was the sign of trouble for Lakers, they were down 17 points in the third quater, if Lakers fan in Staple center did not boo Lakers to wake them up, San Antonio might win game 1 already.
_Kobe will make the biggest mistake of his life, if he still believe Phil can help him to win championship, the game plane to let Kobe to take over in the 4 quarter won't work against team who has the same or better talent players like Lakers.
_ Atlanta won 3 games against Boston in the first round, Atlanta played tough agaisnt Boston at home, and they did not have hall of fame coach.
_Ray Allen hates Kobe because Kobe had Shaq, you can see one guy in Boston doesn't want to loose to Lakers is Ray Allen.
_ Lakers should hire new defensive assistant of Boston, he did a good job to design defensive schemes, give him 5 mil a year to replace master of diasaster Phil, or give Pat Riley 12 mil to coach Lakers, don't bother granpa Phil any more. Pat Rilley is the great coach, Miami came back from 0-2 agaisnt Dallas.
_ Next year, Boston , Detroit will get better, the West will be tougher, the chance of Lakers to win NBA Final is very slim.
Posted by: bluesky | June 13, 2008 at 10:56 PM
I've been reading this blog for the last two years (It's been fun, except last summer with the constant hostility/negativity generated from a since banned poster), but have never written anything. I didn't read the blog all day, expecting constant negativity, trolls, etc. But, it was nice to read some positive posts from stalwarts like LakerTom, Tully Moxness, and Rick Friedman. I'm still holding out hope for a 1995 Houston Rockets-Phoenix Suns type comeback, but even if we don't come back, starting from last summer it's been a great and unexpected run. I haven't been as down as our loss 2 years ago in the Phoenix series, and I think it's because there is alot of hope for future runs--I know the future is never guaranteed, exhelodrvr.
I usually check the webvideo's on www.cbs2.com, and Gary Miller said something interesting--that MJ would never have let this happen, wouldn't have had a couple of bad games in the NBA finals, and therefore Kobe is no MJ. I was thinking the same thing at the time, and I still think it's a valid point. Kobe bears some responsibility for this loss with some of his play both on offense and defense. But, in some fairness to Kobe, MJ had some smart/clutch, physically tough, and tough-minded teammates to go to war with in his championship runs (guys like Paxson, Grant, Kerr, Harper, Cartwright, Rodman), including Scottie Pippen, a sure hall-of-famer. Sure, the Lakers have talent. But, outside of Derek Fisher, who other than Kobe could qualify under all those adjectives? Yeah Lamar and Pau are talented--but tough? Sasha's got some cojones, but last night some of his decision-making on offense/defense were pretty questionable (It reminded me of 2 years ago against Phoenix where we'd be in the penalty, and he would play his "hard-nosed defense" and foul near half-court).
Will they grow before our eyes into those kind of teammates? I'm confident and hopeful they will. I'm just not sure if it's going to happen this series.
Posted by: JHB | June 13, 2008 at 11:10 PM
OH, NO!
WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS TO THE POOR, POOR LAKERS?
IS THERE NO GOD?
SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!
Posted by: Luigi999 | June 13, 2008 at 11:41 PM
hey mamba24
maybe we should add steve hartman to the "We Believe" Bandwagon
on 570 podcast page, good friday interviews with hamblen, rambis and jordan farmar
http://www.am570radio.com/pages/podcasting/
and farmar's interview on loose cannons is like an audio tour of the twilight zone... hartman an optimist?!??!
Posted by: CBuck | June 13, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Faith,
"Never give up, never surrender"
I know you're referring these to others not with me or Justlakerfan or Justanothermambafan. You are familiar with our sentiments to our daily postings , anyway I want to impart something.
Don't worry Faith, nobody has given up the Lakers, we are just analyzing why the ship sailed in the opposite direction in the 2nd half? Now if there were fans who cheered with us and decided to call it quits, hey this is a free country, we can choose which affiliations where we want to be? Like for example Jay Jay who has been following the Lakers for 30 years, when he says it's over, he knows what he's talking about? Seniors or elders (or even some youths with different views) get peeved when their intelligence and experience are being challenged by someone who was born too late. LOL! Frankly, It really entails a lot of miracles on so-called Kobe legacy or Jackson mystic that a 3-1 can be turned around in Boston to Lakers advantage but it is always possible. I believe in miracles. Records are made in order to be broken.
Just a point of observation on our contemporary controversies in the blog, we are united on one thing but we have all different ideas of our Laker following.. It is similar to our politics, being Dems. Reps and the Independents (Here we call it GHF, Realists and GHE) all staying under one roof providing shelter to one another, yet staying in different quarters. There should be no force or arguments why those divisions exists?This is our socio-psychological make-up as a group. The blog tribal grouping is a reflectiuon of what you expect in the real world. We are in a free society that adhere to Jeffersonian principles that respects equal rights of everyone. We should be free to choose what we believe, when to believe and when to stop believing? It can be motivated but not dictated, our belief may be factual and or just fancical, it is to each his own but must be respecting and ethical to one's space and inputs. In retrospect, you don't have to believe with me b/c it is just my 2 cents. Besides, dogs who can't stand wearing a collar were born too soon, are now grouchy to learn new tricks, they just fade away from ignominy. j/k.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 14, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Charles,
In the words of Jefferson Airplane, "Go ask Alice. Feed your head. Feed your head.
Posted by: Rick Friedman
===
Rick Friedman,
I am the Walrus!
Nice one!
Posted by: Charles
--------------------------------------------
For both of you...
Very apt considering the nightmare that was Game 4:
The Electric Prunes
"I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
Posted by: MiloRambaldi | June 14, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Gdub: Shut up about the refs already and stop living in Game 2. The only somewhat questionable call was the blocking foul on Kobe in the 4th.
The play of Lakers (turn overs and botched defensive assignments) is what decided the outcome of this game.
Posted by: cheapassgamer | June 14, 2008 at 04:19 AM
Celtics come back from 24 points down to take game 4 at the Staples Center!!
"That was easy"
Posted by: banner17 | June 14, 2008 at 05:45 AM
justalakerfan,
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#52
website on the collective bargaining agreement
Item 51, re restructuring of contracts - especially the last sentence:
A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or renegotiation that increased any season's salary by more than 8%. Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year. Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap. Raises in subsequent years are limited to 10.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season. The renegotiation may not contain a signing bonus. Contracts cannot be renegotiated downward (players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create salary cap room for the team) or to contain fewer seasons.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 14, 2008 at 07:39 AM
"So, what did Garnett say about Kobe? After reading what Phil said, I must say, I'm very curious."
My guess is that the comment Phil was referring to is "I can almost taste it" comment Garnett made... it was kind of put in his mouth by a reporter, and I think Garnett answered truthfully based on his emotions at that moment. IMO this is Phil is just trying to find something to motivate his players... nothing more.
Posted by: VN | June 14, 2008 at 07:53 AM
There is plenty of blame to go around in this situation. But there is a certain amount of sorrow that makes blame kind of pointless, and that last game was full of sorrow. Really in the big scheme of things it doesn't matter if the Lakers don't win the championship, so that is not the real source of the sorrow.
The real sadness for me is the blow being absorbed by the hall of fame careers of both Kobe and Phil. That last game places a nasty ugly permanent mark on their records that does not suit them or the goals they aspire to, and really the only chance for redemption is the almost impossible task of coming back to win this series.
Posted by: Guity | June 14, 2008 at 08:27 AM
Noone ever wins all 3 of the middle games. It's on happened twice since the 2-3-2 format was started. Even PJ I believe said it was tough to carry the momentum through all 3 of those home games. So if the Lakers had won the first 2 and lost the 3 one noone would have been surprised. Being the road team they had to win at least one in Boston. And if you concede the likelihood of not being able to win 3 in a row in LA and losing that 3rd one, then you have to win 2 in Boston.
Okay, so they have won one game in LA. Now we have to win 2 in Boston instead of the one we knew we had to win. Not that big a difference is it?
It just looks imposing being down 3-1. We win tomorrow, it's 3-2 and doesn't look nearly so bad. Noone has ever come back from 3-1 in the finals. That just means we're coming closer every year to someone doing that. Maybe this is the year. When I heard PJ after game 4 say "This series is not over" he had a resolve about himself. He repeated it a few times.
If we had tied it up 2-2 and then gone on to lose game 5 at home, we would have been down 3-2, heading back to Boston. And that's exactly what we'll have if we win on Sunday. We just lost the games in the wrong order.
It feels worse this way, being put in the 3-1 conundrum. But it will be the same exact thing if we win tomorrow. And you have to believe we'll win Sunday. If they lose Sunday then I will consider it a monumental collapse, similar to the collapse in 2004. I don't see that happening.
It took them longer to figure out the Celtics. They figured out the Spurs that 4th game in San Antonio. I think they will figure out the C's in the 5th game. I think they figured them out in the first half of game 4, but they had a mental lapse and gave the game back to them. I think Garnett was right when he said "you look at the lakers all year and in the first half they play team ball and in the second half they go to Kobe". It's not that simple but you could see that in the second half they were definitely looking to Kobine to go off, score 20 or 25 points and carry them to victory.
If they had kept doing the same things in the second half you have to believe they would have won the game. But that would have meant not trying to get Kobe off. And that might have meant Kobe only scoring 10 or 12 points in the whole game. I don't think they were prepared for that. I don't think they could see themselves winning a game that way. And that's why I think they all looked to Kobe that second half to be the offense.
Boston, on the other hand, predicted this, and expected this. Just like Garnett said. So they went out and played Game 1 ball in the second half, and threw the kitchen sink at Kobe. And they pretty much stopped him. And like everyone says, if our offense isn't clicking our defense plays bad too. So they let the Boston bench come in and hit 3's and drive for layups.
Kobe has been good lately of taking what the defense gave him. In the first half he played perfect. He made passes, got assists, got steals, and we had a commanding lead. I think everyone on the Lakers believed that after a perfect first half like that of all the role players and bench players doing all the scoring, the Celtics would come out in the second half and try to shut everyone but Kobe down. And if they had done that, we would have had the right plan in getting Kobe off. But they out chess moved us, they guessed right what we would do, and we didn't counter. Once it was clear they were going to try to stop Kobe no matter what, the Lakers and Kobe had to go back to the first half strategy of Kobe being the decoy and facilitator and letting everyone else score. Why couldn't they or didn't they do that? Phil said they keyed on Kobe and noone else stepped up. I don't think that's true. I believe that we had a plan to get Kobe off more in the 2nd, and even though it wasn't working, we just couldnt go away from it.
So I think going into game 5 the lesson to be learned is if they want to stop Kobe no matter what (kind of like they stopped Lebron in early games) we have to know we can still win by playing like we did in the first half of game 4. But we have to understand we have to play the whole game like that, and it might mean Kobe only scoring 5 or 10 points. And if gets us a win everyone will be happy. Phil would have to point it out, and Kobe would have to sign off on it. I think Phil is the coach on the bench, but Kobe is much like a coach out on the floor. And he directs the players out there. So Kobe will have to be okay with just scoring 5 or 10 points in a case like that.
So if we win game 5 we go into Boston down 3-2. We have to win 2 games in Boston. They already won one game in LA. So wouldn't it be only fair, that if the Lakers are going to win the title this year they should win 2 games in Boston? I believe it is. Of course we should have won one of the first 2 there and things would have been much easier.
But hey, 4 the hard way? I've heard that a few times lately.
There is no doubt whatsoever that this is possible. But you gotta believe! I think we have the talent to do it. And Boston keeps getting more and more banged up as the series goes on. So the longer it goes the more the edge goes to us.
The big question that remains is do the Lakers believe?
John
Posted by: john_in_houston | June 14, 2008 at 09:25 AM
How Kobe deals with the rest of this series, and (if the Lakers lose) how he deals with the off-season, will be a good test of his leadership.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 14, 2008 at 10:20 AM
iam soo glad i resisted the urge to rake my boys the other day,throu the lens of a new day i see nothing but greatness,past ,present,and future
Posted by: victor knopp | June 14, 2008 at 03:47 PM
To incinuate the refs were behind game 4...... IS about the same odds the Lakers haveto win it and Luke Waltohn would win MVP.......Dont be so bitter.......Paul Pierce played Kobe straightup, even blocking one of his famous one-foot fall away leaners....by the way for all of you who have ESPN classic the game is on right now....so watch it with a clear eye...our D was the difference and the lack of cast support on the lakers allowed us to go ahead and stay ahead.
Posted by: BleedGreenGirl33 | June 14, 2008 at 06:15 PM
Wow! You guys (and gals) are delusional!
I'd heard that a lot of LA was that way, but if you guys really believe most of what you wrote, my advice would be to go out and get a big iced coffee from Dunkin Donuts.
There is no way the Celtics lose this series.
Posted by: Celtics Fan | June 14, 2008 at 07:54 PM
justalakerfan,
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#52
website on the collective barga