A few thoughts on the afternoon after
June 18, 2008 | 3:44
pm
No question last night's carnage will sting for a while. It should. In terms of product quality, what the Lakers trotted out Tuesday night in Boston was the basketball equivalent of expired olives and curdled milk. Inedible. Indigestible. Unfit for human consumption. It was a tough way to end what was a remarkable season, but on the bright side, the foul taste it leaves in the mouths of players and coaches should help push them through the summer and into next season. The Finals was a reminder that the Lakers still have work to do and holes to fill.
Obviously, we'll have a lot of thoughts on the season past and the one upcoming as the Lakers work through exit interviews, the draft (though on the surface, they won't have much to do there), and the NBA's free agency period. But here are a few quick thoughts on the series, the season, and looking forward (as they float through my head, in no particular order):
- I understand the disappointment with losing in the Finals, and certainly once a team gets to that point in the season, there is a reasonable expectation of a title, but overall people should be exceedingly pleased with the 2007-2008 season. It was a huge success, especially given the grim state of the franchise only one year ago. To go from there to losing in Game 6 of the championship series is remarkable. That the team is poised to compete on that level for the next half-decade or so should only make people more excited.
- The Lakers didn't put their best foot forward in the Finals, but it's important to give credit where it's due- the Celtics. Boston's defensive schemes brutalized the Lakers offense, and more than that, the Celtics offense was patient and exploited holes in LA's defense. Before the series, I looked at the way Boston struggled to score on their playoff opponents, and thought they'd be at a disadvantage against what I felt was an underrated Lakers D. Fair to say I was wrong, not just about that, but about the strength of the Celtics generally.
- They were the better team, made better by the matchups. LA wasn't a good fit with Boston.
- Boston's bench outplayed LA's, but not simply because they have better players, but a better variety. It was a great mix of experience (Brown, Cassell, Posey), muscle (Powe, Brown), and shooting (House, Posey), defense (Posey, Tony Allen, if you want to include him) and so on that helped Doc find the combinations he used so effectively. The Lakers bench isn't necessarily bad, but it lacks variety. This offseason, the Lakers should look to fill roles. A bruiser, a defensive specialist, and so on, until they have true balance up and down the active roster. As good as LA's bench was at times this season, at others, they really struggled. This experience, though, should help guys like Farmar and Vujacic.
- Along those lines, playing with the lesser team and therefore a smaller margin for error, the Lakers
needed Phil Jackson to be superior during the series, and he wasn't.
- The Celtics proved that when it comes to defense, the sum is often greater than the parts. The Lakers took positive steps defensively this season, but received six chances to see up close and personal how it well it can be done. It was too easy for Boston to pull LA out of their defensive rhythm, and the Lakers were prone to too many big, series shifting mistakes.
- I thought Pau Gasol had done a better job in the series than he had been given credit for, particularly on defense... until last night. He was bad from the start, and the misfortune he saw early only compounded his problems and that of his team. LO's play improved as the series went on, once he calmed down and figured out how to stay on the court. While he had trouble finishing around the rim- something we've seen before- I think the knock that he was soft or unaggressive isn't fair. He generally attacked the rack and was active on the glass over the final three games. Asked to do a variety of things defensively, Odom did a pretty good job. Could he have played better? Did the Lakers need more? Yes, to both. But while it's always easier to cast people in roles, to say "If that guy did more, the Lakers would have won," it's not that simple, and to pin the loss on Odom doesn't sit right with me.
- Kobe: Clearly had trouble shooting the ball, thanks to some extremely aggressive Boston defense. It wasn't a good series for him, but at the same time, I don't think we saw much of the "old Kobe." After Game 5, when asked if he needed to go for 40+ for the Lakers to have a chance against the Celtics in Boston, Kobe told the media that he could probably force his way to 45, but that's not the way they were going to win. He's right, and he didn't. Not that he didn't (or shouldn't- he is Kobe Bryant after all) try to look for his space. But despite what I'm sure was an overwhelming temptation to start jacking shots left and right, for the most part Kobe tried to continue moving the ball, recognizing that he couldn't shoot the Lakers to a win. Boston wouldn't let him.
- The Lakers needed to elevate their play as a team, and weren't able to do it. As a team, from Kobe on down.
- Regarding Odom, people should be careful when they demand he be moved. First, he's among the team's only rebounders. When Drew returns, they'll have another, but LO is as strong a force on the glass as the team has. That would have to be replaced. Second, with Odom the Lakers have a guy who is completely willing to play the role of "third or fourth guy." He doesn't need, or particularly want, to shoot the ball 18 times a game. Given that they'll have Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol next season, it might not be a good idea to bring in someone who "needs his." Yes, he can be frustrating, but it's a question of the devil you know vs. the devil you don't. The devil they have isn't so bad.
- I'd love to see if they can make the Bynum/Gasol/Odom frontcourt work, or perhaps see if Odom could be a kind of Super Sixth Man, rather than deciding it won't and moving LO in the offseason.
- The Lakers, and this could be solved naturally next year with LO at the three, need to improve that spot on the roster. Even if Odom moves there to start, they need help. Ariza is a good place to start, but if there's a focus in free agency this summer, small forward should be it.
- This team needs tweaks, not a sledgehammer.
- Few teams, including the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, win the whole thing so
soon after returning to potential championship form. The Celtics are
an exception to that rule, but then again, that roster is an exception
to the general laws of roster construction as well. What they did and
how they did it is a rare, rare thing.
There are plenty more things to kick around. Like I said, this is just a stream-of-consciousness list. It's not all inclusive, by any stretch.
BK
Why is Mihm on the team? Is Mihm the locker room spy/snitch for the front office? Trade or release Walton: can't jump, can't defend, can't shoot. O'yea he can pass. How many turn overs in the series? TOO MANY! Release or trade Vladmir. He is a weak, whinny defender. He is an inconsistent shooter. He is soft around the rim offensively. He is 6'10" but doesn't dunk. His mind is rarely in the game after the first quarter. The Lakers need an philosophy change and become defense oriented (Like Koby). Learn to take charges. Become strong on their double teams.
Posted by: | June 19, 2008 at 06:42 AM
LOVE OF THE TEAM VS. BANDWAGON ON CERTAIN PLAYERS
Being a fan, we cannot be standstill and be self denial of perceived problems. Let us be respectful to one another as Laker fans. When one says, he prefers the return of Kwame, he is a fan. However, when someone replies to that proposition that we have to move on with Laker Express rather than dwell on the dark days of the past, he is also a fan. There is no such thing a bandwagon on one's desires alone that is perceived as representing the Laker brand. The Laker brand maintains its quality similar to Coke for soft drinks, Mercedes Benz for cars or Yankee for baseball. It carries the tradition of excellence not only for the team, its city, its fans. It is not merely a fascination of one person or the idea of a conscience blog but what is best for the team. The main decision maker of the concept of "best" is Jerry Buss and Mitch Kupchak. To take care of that brand, we have to move on to the next level of excellence. Someday, PJ or Kobe would also move on for the sake of the taking care of the brand, so be it. During the season I like Vlady Radmanovic and I bank the Laker hopes on his shoulder as the 3-pt. specialist. His performance was dismal in the end so I have to move on with fascination of Vlady. There are better players available that will fill his role and salary. Another player that Lakers have protected too long is Luke Walton. They are aware that he is a "sob player" (pardon the description no malice intended) but he is our sob. Wrong! when there are better choices out there, nobody is indispensable not even our glib talker sob.
Therefore, in this off season debate, my choices are based on three underlying principles:
A. Nobody is indispensable. Choices will be based on performance, size of contract and availability of other players overall performance.
B. Laker brand is superior and has a tradition of excellence. The owners and management, coaches, season ticket holders and fans around the world have to band together protecting its interest over and above the interest of one or few players. Lakers Express cannot afford to be on stand still position, it has to move on.
C. We are all Laker fans (aside from the trolls), no opinion is right or wrong until tested by time and performance in consonance to team's main objective.
There were times during the playoffs prior to the game, on the game thread itself and after the game, we always voiced our opinions in trading players, we prefer this or that because he did not suit to the position or perhaps was underperforming in one game, one series or after injury. Well, our concern were taken out context because they were voiced at the wrong time in making changes. Now that the competitions are over, the debate begins until the deadline of trading. We have to voice our opinions and be heard. In this debate, there is only one thing I ask, you can attack the message but don't attack the messenger (a joke or banter would be ok)by trading insults on his personality, his background and his philosophy of being fan. We are not public figures or your private domain. There have been a thousand posts just on this blog alone representing the millions of voices around the world, I hope you take care of that affiliation and love for the team.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 19, 2008 at 07:05 AM
If the NBA has any intelligence, they will make both Celtics-Lakers games the premier games of the season. These two teams should play that Christmas day game for the next decade, at least.
I can see Kobe making it a personal goal to beat the Celtics every single time they play. The way they started celebrating way before the game was over has got to chap his hide.
I can't wait.
One of the things that we as Lakers fans must remember is that with Bynum we become instantly tougher. Remember that he tended to enjoy physical contact and play on the court. Whenever the game got chippy, he would get energized. We must all remember he is (was) a teenager. And we know teenagers all think they are invincible anyway.
We won't have to worry about him backing down or getting pushed around -- at least not without pushing back on the other end.
If PJ can make that monster lineup work. We are the prohibitive favorites to win it all next year.
Mark my words!
--Fearless
F the F'ing Celtics!
Posted by: Fearless | June 19, 2008 at 07:23 AM
BK,
We are fans-bloggers, not coaches or management trading technicians. When I mentioned those names I never provided the answer as to "How". That is a coaching and players problems to adjust and make it work. I pose those questions basing solely on individual talents that will take the team to another level.
Imagine having Arenas or Davis with the Lakers during the much-concluded Finals, there is the second star, the second threat that will match the Big 3 of the Celts. Who ever imagined that Pierce, Garnett and Allen will be together in one team? These guys have lots of egos as franchise players. However, they want to win the Championship so they sacrificed their personal and past attitudinal behavior. You mentioned EB pairing with starters. How about making Pau as 5 for the bench? That's a novelty idea that Lakers power keg will be sustaining throughout the game. When you have good talents in your roster, we have to think outside of the box not only within the box. I hate Posey as a player - he cheats, pushes, shoves just take advantage of the other player, I also hate when he plays with his mouthpiece which is very unsanitary but what a great addition he will be that could shore up our bench, add more firepower, gutsy and blue collar attitude of doing the dirty work to accomplish teams objectives. All of them are journeymen, mercenaries or hired guns to do certain jobs. We are not getting handsome people for public relations purposes for the benefit of Hollywood stars, but putting up a team that will bring us to the next level. We are getting men with inherent talents and have the desire to win.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 19, 2008 at 07:31 AM
Some people here asking for Phil's head are bunch of morons or idiots or BOTH!!! I also have a news for you – either you got to learn to live with him as Lakers coach for another 2 years or, go find yourself another team to root for next 2 years, because Phil just signed extension during this season and unless something happened to his health, like it or not, you just got live with him at the helm.
Again, look back at the entire season. Did all of you remember last fall? Did any of you, asking for Phil’s head now, ever dreamed this team will be in the Finals? Sometimes I wonder how short memory some people have.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | June 19, 2008 at 07:37 AM
hobbitmage-
In the Houston game you're asking about, he had 17/11. Against the Celtics, despite having three bad games to open the series he finished with three double doubles. He's obviously not perfect, and obviously is inconsistent. Most non-A plus stars are. Is he Dwight Howard on the boards? No, but outside of Dwight Howard, nobody is. Ask around the league and people will tell you that LO is a very strong rebounder. You don't get to be seventh in the league over an 82 game season without being good at it.
As for questioning his heart, you're way off. The guy played hard and played hurt long before Pau made it here. There are very few people on the team who internalize losses and take more personal responsibility for them than Odom. Don't confuse his numbers pre-Pau with lack of effort. He wasn't suited to the role he was being asked to play, and it showed. Once that role changed, so did his performance.
Again, LO isn't perfect. He can be frustrating, he can be inconsistent, his talent is such that it always seems like he should be doing more than he is. They still might need to move him if the need arises. I don't object to that. But if they do, he ought to be replaced with role guys to fill out the roster, not one "star," because I don't know who they can get that will fit into what they do, and still play with (unless you're moving them, too) Bynum and Gasol. Which big banger do you want them to get for Odom?
They didn't beat Boston for a lot of reasons. Rebounding was one, but that's not just Odom, and the return of Bynum helps there. Bench play is another. Team defense, a third. There are more, I'm sure.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | June 19, 2008 at 07:39 AM
The way most people on this blog talk about trades shows the lack of real NBA knowledge and realism they have. A bunch of little Mark Cubans running around on here, thinking they can just trade away most of the team that just brought them to the championship. Stop with the bitterness and be more realistic. Most of the proposed trades and moves are just real longshots. Sure, Artest for Odom...I can see the gain in that trade, but everyone stop thinking that this is just a video game. Where are the REAL fans? You should support your team and players, not shun them after a bad series.
Posted by: Lakafo0 | June 19, 2008 at 07:41 AM
Ex....
Thats true, but he's still a big part of a successful team and theres every chance the team will improve WITHOUT having to make a big move...and at the end of next season he would almost certainly sign with the lakers for much less money suddenly becoming a bargain - or at least no longer overpaid and while I agree he is overpaid; after years of paying for the contract why not take advantage of the fact that you can get him at a reduced rate?...He loved LA even when the team wasn't winning he will stay here...and if he goes you've got room to sign a free agent which shouldn't be too difficult given the promise of the team.
Of course it depends who you can trade him for and if it was the right player then why not? but once again theres no point making a trade for a trades sake....who could we realistically get for him? at this point it has to be exactly the right player - its not a case of trading for 'talent' - we're a contender now.We're looking for a piece.
The other thing that is lost in all of this is that Odom had a great season after the trade and was comfortable in his role...trading him seems premature even if he did annoy the hell out of me in the finals...
Posted by: Kiwi | June 19, 2008 at 08:06 AM
Terrific season, even if the ending fell a little flat.
But there may be a silver lining...
Maybe, just maybe, the media types can finally get over Michael Jordan. Sure, great player, best of his era, yadda-yadda-yadda. People seem to be so fond of the Jordan years that they just can't wait for the next one to come along and start it up all over again.
So they pinned all their Jordanesque hopes on KB. They hype the similarities ad nauseum. And when KB does something that "Jordan would never do!" or that "Jordan would never allow!" then they get all disappointed, and the pointless argument starts up again: Kobe is no Michael! or Kobe WILL surpass Michael, just you wait!!
Well, now, Kobe has led a team to the finals, and then lost. Not because he isn't a great player (he is.) Not because he is less than, equal to, or greater than, Michael Jordan. Kobe played his heart out (they all did.) He gave it his best shot - and the first five games were all very close. They came within an eyelash or two of SWEEPING the Celtics. But it just wasn't in the cards. Not because Kobe isn't Michael (he ISN'T, thank god for that), but because the Celtics made big shots and the Lakers didn't this time.
Nobody talks about how different these two guys are as players. Jordan is much bigger than Kobe - at least 20lbs heavier, at least an inch taller, and with much bigger hands. Jordan received much more respect from the officials, and played in an era before zoning was legal, palming was NEVER called, and there were maybe four or five comparable athletes in the entire league (today there are at least a few dozen, if not more.) Jordan taught the league's assistant coaches how to gameplan against the devestating wing scorer, and those lessons are being applied to the best SG's and SF's of today's generation.
Kobe is much more of a true Shooting Guard. He has already attempted about 2x as many 3 point shots as MJ did, and in 300 fewer games, at that. He's also made 2X as many three's. Jordan was the unquestioned leader of his team from day one, but did not lead a team to the Finals until his 7th season. Kobe already had 3 rings by training camp of year #8 - but had yet to lead a team at any level higher than High School. As THE MAN for the Lakers, he has led them to the doorstep in only his 4th season. At age 29, he has been to the finals 5 times!
Seriously, the comparisons are silly, and need to stop. The only thing the two guys have in common is the unmatched will to win. The difference THIS YEAR is that Kobe didn't have Paxson open on the wing to nail the dagger 3, or Stever Kerr, or Pippen on the baseline, or Armstrong at the top of the circle. Kobe had Vlade and Sasha and Luke - and those guys did their best, but they missed the big shots that came their way.
Is he a great player? Of course.
Does he make his team-mates better?
He creates opportunities for the other guys, gets them open shots, and then takes the heat when things don't go well.
Is he the next Michael Jordan?
Of course not. NO ONE is, or ever will be. So what. Who gives a rat's a**? Does our team have an all time great player, just now entering his competitive prime, with the never-ending drive to fight for wins - both for himself and for us fans?
HELL YES!
And thank God for that...
2009 Finals M.V.P. = KB24
Posted by: karyanr | June 19, 2008 at 08:07 AM
AK or BK,
When will the lakers have exit interviews?
Posted by: gigi | June 19, 2008 at 08:11 AM
Another some random thoughts about upgrading our roster. We’re back into discussion “You can not trade two Chevrolets and one Ford for one Lamborghini or even one Porsche” Yes we have 2 bad contracts in Vlade and Luke. And if you think Mitch can pull miracle and trade them for something of much greater value to the Lakers, you better think again. Lakers will indeed require taking a bad contract in exchange and it remains to be seen if it’ll benefit Lakers at the end. Much more visible it’ll be try to find trading partner for Lamar, who will be odd men anyway assuming Andrew returns to play at 5. I’m not going to repeat all the points I made yesterday regarding Lamar, simple fact is, 4 years experiment is not working out and with Bynum and Gasol playing so close to the basket, him being in the last year of his contract, makes him a perfect candidate to get more traditional SF. Two names immediately comes to mind, Mike Miller (on of the purest shooters in NBA, alone the lines of Ray Allen and Michael Red), Shawn Marion – very good shooter and also one of the very good defenders, someone who can defend 3 positions. Ron Artest name should be also in the mix.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | June 19, 2008 at 08:17 AM
Hey Mamba24,
Add me to the "thanks AK/BK" bandwagon. You guys have all been great. I will miss you all this summer but we'll be back in full force next season. The Celtics are one and done.
I haven't watched the news or turned the radio on since the series ended because all of these dumb Celtics fans. All of the idiots showing up from out of nowhere.
No worries though my Lakers fans...next year you'll be parading in L.A. and not on some hideous dirty duck boats. I say drop top Bentley's for each player, coaches, and each of the faithful LA Times Lakers blog fans.
Luv you all...get ready for next season. We're coming for you leprechauns.
Posted by: EastCoastJessie | June 19, 2008 at 08:30 AM
Edwin Gueco,
Don't you think that pj brown and posey having the green jersey on had anything to do with their great play. I'll bet that if you would of switched Vlad and Walton for those 2 players for this series, that posey and brown would of been in foul trouble with in the first 4 minutes, and Walton and Vlad would of looked like defensive players of the year. The green jerseys had the rep of a defensive team so they were allowed to mug. I'm not saying thats the reason we lost, but thats the reason that these so called savvy veterans that jump from team to team look so good all of a sudden.
The Lakers are good where they are right now. The only team they weren't able to get past all season was the c's , but with bynum back next year it,s going to be a different story. How we all feel right now is only temporary.
Posted by: Fire32 | June 19, 2008 at 08:31 AM
What a parade we're having here in Boston....so much tradition when you're the best NBA fanchise/dynasty ever!!!!!!! Just thought I'd say Hi....Oh gotta go here come the NBA champs with banner 17....most in the NBA.....BYE BYE!!!!! wish you were here...just kidding
Posted by: pmac | June 19, 2008 at 08:54 AM
Kiwi,
Odom was a huge contributor this season, definitely. But the question is, can the team make "the next step" with him? How much of Odom's game would be "lost" playing with Gasol and Bynum, and how much would the Lakers offense be affected by not having any three-point shooters in that group?
If Odom stays on the team, and Ariza is healthy, putting Odom on the bench would address both the first issue, and would also strengthen the bench. But could the issues be more effectively addressed by using his contract to get a couple of pretty good players?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 19, 2008 at 08:56 AM
Good Morning All..
I was hoping to calm down a lil today and get back to being happy go lucky me.. but I cant tell you how annoyed I get at some of you wanting to gut the team, as opposed to some tweaks here and there. Wasnt only a few months ago everyone was in love with the F/O for putting together such a "great" team? lmao talk about fairweather fans. What happened in the Finals was embarrassing no doubt, but who do you really think is more hurt by it? The person that sits at a computer posting opnions on what shoulda,coulda, woulda? The person that runs out and plops down bucks for Laker jersey's? The person that sits at home watching games on tv yelling and cursing at the screen? Or the Person that works his butt off during the off season, bangs bodies for 82 games plus a year, achieves what 90% of his peers "could not" by playing for a title, only to fall short of the quest and instantly be labeled a failure, a scrub, weak, sorry ect ect ect..
If I had to place money on it, not one player for the Lakers is feeling good about themselves right about now, including Phil. Its no secret we got manhandled, but theres a good reason the Lakers struggle against physical teams, its because THEY ARENT !!! ding ding.. you cant have your cake and eat it to. Either you want an up and down, run and gun, score 100 plus a game team, or you want a team that bangs and grinds it out and adapts more to a half court style of ball.
Before you go all crazy and want a team full of bangers, dont forget whats in the west. Speed. Yes, I'd like to see someone like Ron Ron come aboard, but also you need to remember, you can throw all kinds of "all stars" on a team, if the chemistry isnt there ( look up the Lakers 03-04 line up) the result remains the same. As easy as it is to point fingers at players and insert players as a quick fix, it still boils down to chemistry, attitude and mindset. For those doubting Bynum, I dont know of any other teen in NBA history that had the nads to throw a bow at Shaquille or get posterized by Shaq and have the attitude like.. Ok, my turn... if you do, please refresh my memory?
Its really easy to play internet GM, but this isnt EA sports and you ARENT in the game!!! You CANT dump Luke or Vlad, they're still under contract DUH.. so get over it... do you really think some other team wants either of them for what we're paying? I doubt it. LO is more than likely gonna be the scapegoat here and as much as I'd love to see him stay, shortcomings and all, 13-14 mil is top tier bucks, he's been with the team long enough to have cemented his value. I understand past personal issues may have kept him from putting in the off season work he needed to ( his jumper and his one hand rebounding drives me nuts) but to see this as anything other than a total team collapse, from ronny all the way to Kobe, yes Kobe and Phil as well, is foolish. I think a tweak is in order here, but anything other than that, most of you will be here next year crying on your keyboard about this that and the other and why we didnt make it back to the finals.
For you lingering Boston trolls still bored with life and searching for attention here. Again, Congrats on a good season and enjoy your title and parade. Trust Us, they're FUN but lets not forget, the last time your team DEFENDED your title, Jimi Hendrix was still alive, so save all the rah rah rah BS until your team can actually do something it has failed to do in 30 years.. K? Thanks
Posted by: complex brotha | June 19, 2008 at 08:56 AM
Good Morning MAMBA24 -
Will you please do a favor for me good sir? Please place me on the "thank you KBROS bandwagon". I hope you are having a fantastic day and are in good spirits.
Good Morning Family!
I feel that people here forget how good Luke was a few years ago, when we had Smush and Kwame - we were rolling until he hurt his ankle (and ended up being out for a very long period of time.
During the 2006-07 season, Luke was third on the team in points per game, 5th in rebounding per game, 3rd in assists per game, and shot a respectable 47.4% from the field.
While he may not be as athletic as a number of other players, he has done more with his abilities than other people may have done with theirs (Think Darius Miles - a person whom Michael T. wanted to bring on board; Think Kwame Brown; Think Brian Cook; Think Smush Parker, and countless others).
Why the wholesale changes? I'm quite baffled by a number of suggestions (Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Arenas, Baron Davis). We made it to the finals with one of the youngest rosters in the league! Rome wasn't built in a day, and winning championships is NOT an easy thing. Ask SA about it; Ask MJ about it; Ask Larry Bird, Magic, KG - the list goes on and on. This is an important step in our development as a team. The lesson that should be learned from getting hammered so badly is that nothing is given; you have to earn and desire it in a way that eclipses your opponent.
Jon K. - I've been secretly pining for Battier to play for the lake show (as well as Mike Miller - that man can drain some triples), but I fear that both will not be suiting up for us in the near future. With that in mind, I'm perfectly content on giving this team (as currently constructed) another year of growth.
Hope everyone is having a good morning!
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | June 19, 2008 at 09:04 AM
Fire32,
Are you officially converted?
My wife grew up a Funs fan, but I'm proud to say that through my passion and persistence in her watching games with me (even though I get emotional and it makes her uncomfortable) she is officially a Laker fan. Her dad was a season ticket holder at one point, and she even attended the '92 Finals game six when Pax broke their hearts.
So I say again Fire, have you come to the good side of the force?
I know it can be done. Yopu only have to believe.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | June 19, 2008 at 09:07 AM
karyanr -
You speak the truth in your last post. I wish more people took the time to take a step back and reflect on that.
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | June 19, 2008 at 09:08 AM
Given the choice of Elton Brand or Pau Gasol, who would you take? Elton Brand. If Brand decides to opt out of his contract, I am sure the Clippers do not want to lose him for nothing. Sign and trade him to the Lakers for Gasol. Salaries are similar. A possibility or dream?
The Lakers desperately need strong, intelligent players. Ron Artest. If Artest decides to opt out of his contract, I don't think the Kings want to lose him for nothing. If the Lakers are willing to take on one of their bad contracts, Odom to the Kings for Artest is a good trade. A dream or a possibility.
People forget Kobe has a torn ligament in his finger and they write these articles on how he disappeared. Yes, he shot the ball well prior to the Finals but come on guys It is a torn ligament in his shooting hand!!!
Resign Vujacic and Turiaf. Do whatever is possible to get rid of Waltona nd Vlad.
Fisher Bryant Artest Brand Bynum . Dream or possibility?
Posted by: Tom | June 19, 2008 at 09:25 AM
Lakafo0,
"Stop with the bitterness and be more realistic."
We are the real fans here. We support the team so we ask for improvement to another level. You said stop the bitterness and be more realistic. We crossed that bridge, you're the one who is bitter on our suggestions for team's improvement.
With regards to possible or impossible, I remember one time Jerry West trading the rights of Peeler, Lynch and Vlade to open cap space for Shaq and acquired the 13th draft pick, Kobe. If I were a fan, can I ever imagine that thing is possible. Not going too far, who would imagine that Orlando will absorb our garbage in Cookie and sacrifice a small SG draft pick to gain Trevor Ariza. I applaud Mitch for that superb trade. He followed it again with another brilliancy in resurrecting the rights of McKie package with Kwame's 9m plus our rookie and draft picks to gain Pau Gasol. Who are we to judge what is possible and impossible? I look at it as a business point of view, I want to be in that arena or place, let my men and managers think of ways how to get there.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 19, 2008 at 09:32 AM
karyanr, AMEN TO ALL THAT!!!!
KOBE is KOBE. Let him be him.
LAKERS FOREVER!!
Posted by: SoCalGal | June 19, 2008 at 09:38 AM
Fire 32,
Your theory is possible. I only mentioned Posey because he was mentioned on Hoopsworld that he is being pursued by the Lakers even before the Finals. In fact, he was pursued after he was shipped out by Miami but Ainge got him first. Now the Celtics have luxury taxes problem, why not push the button further to raise the competition by emptying the treasury of Ainge in form of luxury taxes or yield rights on what particular player. Posey is not the beginning nor the end, he is just an example of what we need to be a brash n' brawl team not being accused as soft and sissy. At this time of the year, we are all suggesting changes not the hard fast rule but more ideas aired elevates the decision making to a better athmosphere for creative thinking.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | June 19, 2008 at 09:39 AM
Ex
I think the lakers can take the next step with him.There is always the chance he will let you down (as is the case with alot of players if not most) but I think he's had more big games in the playoffs than people remember...and hes not quite as unclutch as a lot of people want to think.
The lakers got beaten early in this series and in the end the celtics played far better....whether or not they are actually a significantly better team is still up for debate...it still went six games and I think the lakers could have done better but got mentally beaten early on.lamar has helped us get through tough series and he simply didnt have a good series but theres nothing that tells me the team cant win a title if he's around.
Odom is the kind of guy you might not miss until he's gone I'm not sure its worth the risk....unless I got super deal I probably wouldnt do it.My guess is the lakers wouldnt be offered enough for him to make it worth their while.Its a great opportunity to not do anything rash ..see how next season pans out then have him as a cheaper sixth man on a team that will contend for a while.
Given the Kobe situation too I wouldnt be taking too many risks with the teams chemistry and Odom is a huge part of that.But sure if the right trade came along...
Posted by: Kiwi | June 19, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Listen guys, I feel your pain. We just went through a very disappointing loss as favorites with the Patriots. Your guys did pretty well getting to the Finals, so give them some credit.
Personally I think the problem with the team in the Finals was Kobe. He needs a little humility to learn how to play like a teammate. The players around him stopped trying in the final game because they got tired of seeing him go off-script and throw up bad shots, when he demands nothing but the most impeccable judgement and effort from them. He's an unbelievable talent, but so is Alex Rodriguez and we know how well his teams have done in baseball. The two players are very similar. Very tempting to build a team around him, but until his character changes, he'll always hold everyone else back.
As far as the Green Weenies go, I think the Celts played a fair but physical game, and they are likeable to everyone because they play so well together and have no excuses or complaints when they fail.
Sorry about the celebration before the game was over, but let's face it, you guys sat your starters, which was basically conceding it. And unless you're a Celtics fan, you have NO IDEA how hard Paul Pierce has worked over the past ten years to get to that special moment. I'm sure it's the same for KG, but he was in Minnesota. We played through the worst kind of humiliations last year, where teams would play us like we were the Generals against the Globetrotters. Pierce struggled through constant injury, no scoring help, no defense, no veterans. He was really due for some good luck.
I can understand the hatred for the 80's Celts, they were probably loveable only to Boston fans, but that was a LONG LONG time ago, and this year's Celtics play a totally different way. You can't hate a team just because they beat you...that's just poor sportsmanship. I don't hate the NY Giants, I just tip my hat and pay my respects.
In the end it's just a game and there will always be another chance. So "Go Lakers!" and we'll see you next year.
Posted by: GreenWeenie | June 19, 2008 at 01:01 PM
You guys need to get over this TWEAKING stuff. If anyone here has ever played ANY competitive sport, you do not make a finesse team a defensive monster overnight. It takes good coaching - which we did not have in the finals. Can some guys get better? Yes. If you are all expecting Bynum to be your answer - wake up. He's very young. His longest season was in high school!!!! Get real people. Bynum will have his ups and downs, and hopefully that knee is fine. If you expect Pau to put on 20 lbs and become a beast in 4-5 months - wake up. You obviously don't gut the team. But they are lacking in the confidence and pride department. Up until the finals, the defense was good - how else did they beat the Jazz and San Antonio? But you need to make changes. Maybe that involves LO, maybe not. But you need a good player who can shoot and play defensive consistently. A better shooter opens up the triangle and prevents sagging. I don't think Sasha will be that player next year, but I feel he is the most improved player on the roster, with Farmar a close second. But it's not tweaking...be honest people! You need to make a change. So you'll need to give something up you like to get something better.
Posted by: baller | June 19, 2008 at 01:41 PM
GreenWeenie -
Well Said. Again, as a Laker fan, I want to congratulate your team on winning the championship. And I AM looking forward to seeing your team next year. It's time to start a new rivalry!
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | June 19, 2008 at 01:56 PM
hobbitmage,
Regarding Lamar Odom, you wrote:
>>>We're paying him $$ for a #2 guy ... What we
>>>most need out of a F is: Rebounds & Defense. Do you
>>>think either of those are his strong suits?
Okay hobbitmage, so which one of these players do you think
the Lakers can get:
Dwight Howard
Marcus Camby
Tyson Chandler
Tim Duncan
Al Jefferson
Emeka Okafor
Who do you think the Lakers will have to trade to get one
of those six guys. Because those are the ONLY SIX PLAYERS
IN THE LEAGUE that averaged more rebounds per game
than Lamar Odom.
Your logic doesn't make sense. One of the reasons you
give for wanting to give up Odom is the thing that he is
one of the best in the league at.
Okay, granted, he's not the 7th best defender in the league,
but he is a pretty good defender. So do you trade him for
a player who's a better defender but doesn't score or rebound
as much as Lamar?
Who is this imaginary player that you think the Lakers
could trade Lamar Odom for who is going to be an All-Star
level player every night?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 19, 2008 at 02:46 PM
hobbitmage,
>>>Did you see the game *I* saw?
I get it now. You only watched one game. Now it makes sense.
So you missed the part where Lamar got 19 and 10 in one
game and 20 and 11 in the next game while mostly being
defended by Kevin Garnett. Oh, and by the way, he
outscored KG in both of those games.
You can't judge a player by a single game.
But then again, after the 1987 NBA Championships, you
probably would have been calling for the team that lost
the last game to trade their small forward because he only
shot 6 for 16 in the last game and turned the ball over
4 times. Don't remember who that was? Look it up.
Lamar contributed more good than bad this season, and
he will be even better next season. Mark my words.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 19, 2008 at 02:52 PM
James Deen,
>>>in his last three games against against the celtics,
>>>Lebron James averaged over 37 points.
By taking a lot more shots than Kobe. While LeBron the
"team player" was jacking up over 30 shots a game, Kobe
the "ballhog" was taking more like 23 shots a game.
If Kobe had stopped passing to his teammates and played
Kobe-ball, I'm sure he could have scored 40 on any given
night.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 19, 2008 at 03:00 PM
>>>so much tradition when you're the best NBA
>>>fanchise/dynasty ever!!!!!!!
You're living in the past. Before this season, what have the
Celtics done this century?
not much.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 19, 2008 at 03:14 PM
The lakers lost because the celtics play as a team. Kobe try to learn that team does not have the letter I in it.
You laker dudes should do it the celtics way
Celtics Pride is bonifide!
LOL we had a good parade today. BWAHAHAHAH
Posted by: bill fraser | June 19, 2008 at 03:16 PM
Green Weenie,
>>>The players around him stopped trying in the final
>>>game because they got tired of seeing him go off-script
>>>and throw up bad shots,
Malarkey.
Kobe took 22 shots, which is average for him. And many of
them were difficult shots because other players passed up
open shots to pass the ball to him late in the clock.
For some reason, both Farmar and Vujacic got a little
timid shooting in that last game. Sasha only jacked the
ball up 4 times, as opposed to 10 shots a game in the
previous 3 games. There were several plays where
Kobe drew two defenders and passed off to Jordan or Sasha,
but instead of taking the open jumper, they held the ball,
allowed the defense to recover, and waited until they
could pass it back to Kobe.
The players who stopped playing in the final game were
mostly guys who had never been to the finals before and
got thoroughly beguiled when they got down by 30 points
by the middle of the third. They just stopped trying - Kobe
kept trying, but if you're a tiger playing on a team with
4 lambs against a team of 5 hungry jackals, your odds
aren't good.
But they'll learn from the series. If you think back, you'll
recall that Kobe didn't look too great in his first two years of
playoffs. The frustration of that final beatdown will make
Sasha and Jordan (and hopefully Lamar and Vlad and
Trevor) work that much harder this summer to improve
their game enough that they won't ever have to take that
kind of a beating again.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 19, 2008 at 03:34 PM
>>>I think Lakers should trade Lamar Odom, Radmanovic,
>>>Turiaf, and get Joe Johnson and Mike Miller and a
>>>veteran power forward who rebounds, mid range game,
>>> and great defense, and strong.
Well I think the Lakers should trade Mihm, MBenga and
Coby Karl for LeBron James, Dwight Howard, and Chris
Paul.
As long as you're being unrealistic, you might as well dream
big.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 19, 2008 at 03:36 PM
Long Time Laker Fan:
As I mentioned--Phil said himself in game 6 that he wanted Kobe to take over. It doesnt look like phil did anything other than just tell kobe to do his thing.
Unless he was lying... which I dont thing he was because Kobe was trying to get shots, but he had no space to get a decent look. It's a coache's job to get him that space. Dont even get me started on the defensive failures. Also, in the last two games PJ was playing some weird combinations on the floor. To me this is the sign of a coach who cant really figure out what is going on and is desperate to make something happen. There's no doubt that he's a great coach but I think more than anyone else, Phil Jackson is to blame for this loss.
Posted by: James Deen | June 19, 2008 at 05:07 PM
hey bill fraser....
your celtics play as a team....a rugby team, I don't think I've seen a stranger looking bunch of players. Sometimes a team may have one guy, but the Leper-cons definitely look like they have team meals at the Hometown Buffet. And I suppose you think that McHale's "foul" on Rambis was just a foul. If the thugs didn't get the ref's calls their fat asses would not have been an ASSett. Maybe in the future, instead of us laughing about short-shorts, we'll laugh about how it was before Stern stiffened up on "appearance in game attire rules"...could happen.
The Lakers are fine, they will progress according to schedule, a few changes will be made, but please, keep Sam Cassell, we don't need him unless they find a Tolkien book, undiscovered, that has Gollum, finally greedily grasping the the ring.
Garnett, Chest thumping....barbaric, dusting powder on announcers, I'd have the league put an end to that stupid act, nobodies lungs needs that stuff in there, isn't that MJ's old habit. have him kick it, Kobe doesn't stick his tongue out anymore like he did 12 years ago, so I'd say he "does his own thing"...enjoy your trophy, because it was a gift, from Stern, McHale and others....Please, have Garnett move to Martha's Vineyard, or whatever your wonderful places are...I mean I think Boston people would get down on him for living in the "forbidden zone".....
First lesson of Laker spring training should be "how to get away with "stuff" that starts with the letter c.
Another thing I don't get get is the nickname thing...the
Truth, the Big Ticket....then poor Ray (future predicting) Allen...why don't you just call him "Jesus"??? Has some similarities...hangs out with 12 other guys (?...14, but that's close enough), walks on water (you got a hockey rink under that ugly floor???), turns water into wine (gatorade, that's close enough for NBA people, unless you're Popovich,.....
Whatever, don't polish the trophy too much, or people may get the wrong idea. I hope you draft well with those lottery picks that will be coming your way in 2011, 2012 and 2013. By the way thanks for Rick Fox, we needed him to beat up Doug Christie. What's next, are you guys gonna feed the Pacers some freebies.
If you want to think about struggling against lingering injuries, think back to the days of Kupchak after his injury. and the effort he gave with only one good leg. No wheel chair needed there. That brace could have been used for the Chunnel, or what do you guys have there, something called the big Dig??? I sense a Hoffa theory.......
It's all venting, don't take it seriously. Seriously. Now do double positve statements make a negative statement?
Posted by: humanomaly | June 20, 2008 at 03:51 AM
James Deen....theee James Byron Dean????? The actor who left us way too soon, I believe on 9/30/1955.
I love his quote:
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"
The Celtics played that way. Dead tomorrow. Just kidding.
Posted by: humanomaly | June 20, 2008 at 03:55 AM
"Max Factor could make a monkey look good."
Tiny Tim and the Lakers had the same press agent.
"how far do you want me to move back?
how about Cleveland?"
Jack Nicholson has added one more thing to his
kick the "Bucket List."
Posted by: yours truly, Johnny Dollar | June 20, 2008 at 11:49 AM