A few thoughts on the afternoon after
June 18, 2008 | 3:44
pm
No question last night's carnage will sting for a while. It should. In terms of product quality, what the Lakers trotted out Tuesday night in Boston was the basketball equivalent of expired olives and curdled milk. Inedible. Indigestible. Unfit for human consumption. It was a tough way to end what was a remarkable season, but on the bright side, the foul taste it leaves in the mouths of players and coaches should help push them through the summer and into next season. The Finals was a reminder that the Lakers still have work to do and holes to fill.
Obviously, we'll have a lot of thoughts on the season past and the one upcoming as the Lakers work through exit interviews, the draft (though on the surface, they won't have much to do there), and the NBA's free agency period. But here are a few quick thoughts on the series, the season, and looking forward (as they float through my head, in no particular order):
- I understand the disappointment with losing in the Finals, and certainly once a team gets to that point in the season, there is a reasonable expectation of a title, but overall people should be exceedingly pleased with the 2007-2008 season. It was a huge success, especially given the grim state of the franchise only one year ago. To go from there to losing in Game 6 of the championship series is remarkable. That the team is poised to compete on that level for the next half-decade or so should only make people more excited.
- The Lakers didn't put their best foot forward in the Finals, but it's important to give credit where it's due- the Celtics. Boston's defensive schemes brutalized the Lakers offense, and more than that, the Celtics offense was patient and exploited holes in LA's defense. Before the series, I looked at the way Boston struggled to score on their playoff opponents, and thought they'd be at a disadvantage against what I felt was an underrated Lakers D. Fair to say I was wrong, not just about that, but about the strength of the Celtics generally.
- They were the better team, made better by the matchups. LA wasn't a good fit with Boston.
- Boston's bench outplayed LA's, but not simply because they have better players, but a better variety. It was a great mix of experience (Brown, Cassell, Posey), muscle (Powe, Brown), and shooting (House, Posey), defense (Posey, Tony Allen, if you want to include him) and so on that helped Doc find the combinations he used so effectively. The Lakers bench isn't necessarily bad, but it lacks variety. This offseason, the Lakers should look to fill roles. A bruiser, a defensive specialist, and so on, until they have true balance up and down the active roster. As good as LA's bench was at times this season, at others, they really struggled. This experience, though, should help guys like Farmar and Vujacic.
- Along those lines, playing with the lesser team and therefore a smaller margin for error, the Lakers
needed Phil Jackson to be superior during the series, and he wasn't.
- The Celtics proved that when it comes to defense, the sum is often greater than the parts. The Lakers took positive steps defensively this season, but received six chances to see up close and personal how it well it can be done. It was too easy for Boston to pull LA out of their defensive rhythm, and the Lakers were prone to too many big, series shifting mistakes.
- I thought Pau Gasol had done a better job in the series than he had been given credit for, particularly on defense... until last night. He was bad from the start, and the misfortune he saw early only compounded his problems and that of his team. LO's play improved as the series went on, once he calmed down and figured out how to stay on the court. While he had trouble finishing around the rim- something we've seen before- I think the knock that he was soft or unaggressive isn't fair. He generally attacked the rack and was active on the glass over the final three games. Asked to do a variety of things defensively, Odom did a pretty good job. Could he have played better? Did the Lakers need more? Yes, to both. But while it's always easier to cast people in roles, to say "If that guy did more, the Lakers would have won," it's not that simple, and to pin the loss on Odom doesn't sit right with me.
- Kobe: Clearly had trouble shooting the ball, thanks to some extremely aggressive Boston defense. It wasn't a good series for him, but at the same time, I don't think we saw much of the "old Kobe." After Game 5, when asked if he needed to go for 40+ for the Lakers to have a chance against the Celtics in Boston, Kobe told the media that he could probably force his way to 45, but that's not the way they were going to win. He's right, and he didn't. Not that he didn't (or shouldn't- he is Kobe Bryant after all) try to look for his space. But despite what I'm sure was an overwhelming temptation to start jacking shots left and right, for the most part Kobe tried to continue moving the ball, recognizing that he couldn't shoot the Lakers to a win. Boston wouldn't let him.
- The Lakers needed to elevate their play as a team, and weren't able to do it. As a team, from Kobe on down.
- Regarding Odom, people should be careful when they demand he be moved. First, he's among the team's only rebounders. When Drew returns, they'll have another, but LO is as strong a force on the glass as the team has. That would have to be replaced. Second, with Odom the Lakers have a guy who is completely willing to play the role of "third or fourth guy." He doesn't need, or particularly want, to shoot the ball 18 times a game. Given that they'll have Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol next season, it might not be a good idea to bring in someone who "needs his." Yes, he can be frustrating, but it's a question of the devil you know vs. the devil you don't. The devil they have isn't so bad.
- I'd love to see if they can make the Bynum/Gasol/Odom frontcourt work, or perhaps see if Odom could be a kind of Super Sixth Man, rather than deciding it won't and moving LO in the offseason.
- The Lakers, and this could be solved naturally next year with LO at the three, need to improve that spot on the roster. Even if Odom moves there to start, they need help. Ariza is a good place to start, but if there's a focus in free agency this summer, small forward should be it.
- This team needs tweaks, not a sledgehammer.
- Few teams, including the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, win the whole thing so
soon after returning to potential championship form. The Celtics are
an exception to that rule, but then again, that roster is an exception
to the general laws of roster construction as well. What they did and
how they did it is a rare, rare thing.
There are plenty more things to kick around. Like I said, this is just a stream-of-consciousness list. It's not all inclusive, by any stretch.
BK
THE FUTURE IS NOT BRIGHT LAKERS FANS
The Celtics will be even better next year. Perkins and Rondo will have another year under their belt. Does anyone recall how Perkins manhandled Bynum this year. Open your eyes, Rajon will dominate our PG's.
Do you think that all of a sudden that Phil Jackson is going to become a defensive minded coach? Do you think PJ will ever dispose of the Triangle Offense? He doesn't know anything else.
Does anyone believe that Luke will morph into Bill?
Does anyone believe that tiny Jordan Farmar will not be dominated by the majority of point guards in this league? Does anyone believe that Fisher who will be 35 next year won't lose another step?
Does anyone believe that Lamar Odum will not disappear?
Does anyone believe that Sasha is Steve Kerr?
Does anyone believe in Vlade?
DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT PORTLAND WITH ODEN WILL NOT DOMINATE THE LAKERS? THEY DOMINATED US THIS YEAR WITHOUT HIM.
DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT SAN ANTONIO WILL NOT MAKE ANOTHER GREAT MOVE IN THE OFF SEASON AND HAVE A HEALTHY SQUAD NEXT YEAR.
DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT NEW ORLEANS WILL NOT BE GREAT NEXT YEAR?
DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT UTAH WON'T BE TOUGH AS NAILS?
If you believe, you are delusional.
IF YOU BELIEVE THE LAKERS WILL GET BACK TO THE FINALS NEXT YEAR, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL!!!
##################################
CHANGES NEEDED AND TRADE OPTIONS
1. FIRE PHIL JACKSON.
THEY WON'T OF COURSE BUT HE HAS ONLY 1 MORE YEAR, BECAUSE WHEN THE LAKERS DON'T MAKE IT TO THE FINALS NEXT YEAR, HE WILL BE FINALLY BE EXPOSED FOR THE FRAUD THAT HE IS. REMEMBER, HE DID NOT COME BACK TO HELP KOBE, HE CAME BACK FOR THE MONEY. HE CAME BACK FOR THE MONEY PEOPLE.
2. TRADE LO, VLADE, AND LUKE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. FOR ANYONE AND ANYTHING.
LO= 14.5 MIL ....VLADE= 6 MIL.... LUKE4.4 MIL
THERE ARE A LOT OF FREE AGENTS OUT THERE A SIGN AND TRADE SHOULD BE THOUROUGHLY PURSUED BY MITCH.
OTHER PLAYERS IN TRADE SCENARIOS
JERMAINE ONEAL 21.3 MIL THIS YEAR ..23 MIL FINAL YEAR
ELTON BRAND 16.4 MIL
THE FUTURE WILL NOT BE BRIGHT WITHOUT GETTING RID OF CLOUDS
Posted by: Do You See What I See | June 18, 2008 at 05:12 PM
I don’t know what to think right now. I’m in pain, but thankfully the shock is numbing most of it. What the “H” happened? (Rhetorical question…) I was surprised that we did so well against Utah & San Antonio (which were ‘Celtic Defensively Strong’ & ‘Celtic Wisely Older’, respectively,) then we got destroyed. Losing is one thing, but those weren’t even losses, they were annihilations.
I agree that it starts at the top and the slop runs down from there. Phil did a terrible job; utterly, pathetically, disgracefully terrible. This is the first time I’ve thought we should let him go.
Then, there are the two softies up front: Lamar & Pau. Lamar is so inconsistent I can’t stand it. The worst part is that the talent is there. It’s not like he has to fight to be good; he is good. It’s that he has to fight to be aggressive to let his skills come through. I wouldn’t care so much if he wasn’t costing us almost $14,000,000. I think Ariza could be almost as effective (and get better over time) and is a bargain. But, who’s going to pay LO that kind of money? Then, Pau starts playing ‘Euro ball’ against our Finals competition and seems to get more comfortable doing it as the series goes on. Obviously, he’ll never bring what Bynum will. Thank heaven we’re getting his 21-year old, already-getting-dominant potential back next year. However, two 7-footers & a 6-10 SF in our front court? Can that actually work? Where’s the space for each man to do his thing? But if history has taught us anything it’s that we need bigs, good ones, to cover for potential (and inevitable) injuries.
Then there’s Fish & Farmar; leadership – yes, production – no. I’m grateful Derek is a great mentor. Farmar, on the other hand, is young and has potential. He’s already decent at running the Triangle and he’s great on the fast break, but will he ever be Paul, Williams, Nash, or even Rondo, caliber? Perhaps with Sasha in the back court (and one other experienced acquisition to accompany him) we’ll get more production from our PGs. (Even if it’s just with our woefully low assist numbers.)
Our SGs are our saving grace. At least Sasha isn’t afraid to do his thing; that’s how he’ll continue to get better.
Inconsistency aside, which hopefully will become less of a problem over time, our mids-to-bigs on our bench are fine. Ronny brings the energy and solid defense. Trevor brings freaky athleticism in a big size; someone that can play the two or the three. Luke can run the offense, make passes, and play decent defense. But, how he went from having the league’s best 3-point percentage at the beginning of the 2006 season (before his injury) to what we’ve seen with his overall shooting percentage this season, I do not know.
We can jettison Mihm, Benga, Karl, Newble, and Radmonovic. Check that, we need to get rid of Radmonovic. He’s given us nothing for his $6,000,000 salary. Let’s get either toughness or consistency with our SFs, then my pain will turn into the promise of championship potential.
Posted by: Chris | June 18, 2008 at 05:13 PM
magic isn't walking though the door. kareem isn't walking through the door. jerry west isn't walking through the door.parade in city of champions ( BOSTON ) tommorrow
Posted by: rick p. | June 18, 2008 at 05:15 PM
BK - i don't know what to think with lamar. it would be nice to win with more homegrown players than hired guns (like the celtics). i would definitely love to have him get an opportunity to hold that trophy as a laker.
my biggest concern is, despite his rebounding and skill-set, the man can't shoot. i gave him a rule for the season that he was basically allowed 2-3 outside jumpers per game. anything more is a turnover. as great as they're passing skills are (lamar, Pau, Drew), can they really play hot potato in such a crowded area? only pau has decent percentage (at least i think) outside of 15 feet.
Posted by: dan | June 18, 2008 at 05:15 PM
I HATE this time of the year for two main reasons:
1. The Lakers aren't playing.
2. Because the Lakers aren't playing Fakers and Haters don't have to be curtailed by statistics and the results from games, thereby resulting in crazy trade scenario after crazy trade scenario.
It gets SO tiring listening to people who to paraphrase BK think that the team needs a sledgehammer not a couple small tweaks.
They don't take into account salary caps.
They don't take into account notions of team unity, team psychology, and complimentary personalities.
All they take into account is the insane notion that if we can pack a team with all-stars and compose our bench of players who start on playoff quality teams that we'll TAKE IT ALL!
Morons.
With few exceptions, there's very little reason to these scenarios.
In addition, the Fakers who show nothing but disgust at our loss in the Finals and this season in general, after all we've gone through over the last four years, show how little they know about basketball and the Lakers. These are the ones who scream "THE SKY IS FALLING!"
True Fans know that the sky is not falling.
Andrew Bynum.
Anybody remember Andrew Bynum?
Well, he's coming back next year.
As are almost all of a team that went 4-2 in the NBA Finals and lost (through boneheadedness and terrible lopsided calls) two games they should have won.
Anyhow, I'm going to do my best to ignore them.
My suggestions for next year?
Bring on Quinton Ross, Sun Yue, and maybe (but probably not Kwame Brown). Let go of Ira Newble and (maybe) DJ Mbenga.
That's it.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | June 18, 2008 at 05:16 PM
AK/BK
1. A stream of consciousness report is weak after you've had one entire day to digest it in this 24/7 world.
2) If the lakers were good enough to get this far, I do not accept that boston is so superior to utah or san antonio that we could lose by 39 points in the last game, and play so inconsistently.
3) This is a young team. Historically, PJ does not do well with young teams.
4) The Zen Hen makes 10-11 million a year. He should have figured something out to at least not lose by such a ridiculous amount. Nothing else is acceptable. If the lakers could lead the celts by 30 points, come back from a 24 point deficit, it's unacceptable to lose like this. He needs to come out and take the blame. Be a man Phil.
5) Walton was ineffiective as was Turiaf.
6) Kobe needs to accept some responsibility for not playing as well as expected. Obviously, the celts were forcing the issue on him. He's got to find a way to figure it out and motivate his teammates to play better. That's what leaders do.
7) This is LA. Championships is all we care about around here. If you get that far, and we certainly appreciate the effort, you cannot go out like that.
8) There's no guarantee we'll be back next year. It will take more than tweaking. You can tweak players, but we are not physical. We get discouraged easily. We do not play hard on defense as well as we should have (hello Phil again).
9) Bye Vlade. Hello James Posey - I hope.
10) We have to wait and see on Bynum. But given his limited playing time and his knee, I'd be open to trades by February if a good one comes up, but I don't think it will.
11) Next year will be tougher. Portland will be better. It was very tough to get in the playoffs this year - it was only a couple games separating the top from the bottom. Everyone who watched this series just got a primer on how to beat the lakers. Whether they have the personnel or not is another question, and whether the lakers come back the same or not is one too.
Posted by: baller | June 18, 2008 at 05:18 PM
In case anyone didn't notice, Artest is crazy.
What we need a lunatic to screw up the team unity when next year with Bynum back and a group of stronger collective personalities with the overall confidence they've developed from this season and this playoffs?
NOT!
Quinton Ross is available. He's cheap. He's a GREAT defender. He's a hard worker. He's humble. And he can score if needbe.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | June 18, 2008 at 05:19 PM
REDHOT SPAZ- LAMAR STAYS-- I am not changing any of our core players after getting to the finals (without Bynum) for the 1st time. We are a YOUNG TEAM. The only thing I'll concede is come contract time, he does need to make less dough. I don't think he's going to have a problem with that.
Mitch Kupchak
Posted by: Big Al | June 18, 2008 at 05:21 PM
BK - My Final Q / Comment. . . Are you a NASCAR FAN? Maybe you should be. . . What happened last night and over the course of the finals was obvious to the seasoned Laker Fan. Your Laker POV must be targeted at another Laker team on another planet. From my end this engagment is DONE. . . Wasnt it you that said "Mark McQuire is telling the truth?
FIRE LAMAR!!
Posted by: RedHottLAFan | June 18, 2008 at 05:25 PM
Fisher ( Calming Presence, Role player)
Kobe (Enigma)
Artest (Too Crazy)
Gasol ( Too Soft)
Bynum (Cant call it yet)
Odom (Confused) Coming off the Bench
Championship
Posted by: AJ | June 18, 2008 at 05:26 PM
REPOST from Live Game Thread.
Ex,
Fineally something I can wrap my hands around.
I respectfully disagree that Doc had better players. I think the Lakers had the better team.
JustaLakerFan,
It's very simple - PJ did not have the options to work with that Rivers had. A wildly inconsistent Lamar Odom, a Kobe whose shot wasn't falling, point guards not quick enough, Vujacic three point shots not falling, Gasol playing decent defense and rebounding, but being over-powered while on offense, Turiaf not getting any rebounds, Radmonovich playing horrible defense, Luke Walton playing poorly. Ariza and Mihm not ready for playing yet, as they showed when given the chance. Overall a significantly less amount of experience.
[ OK yes LO was inconsistant but who had him out there? Pull him out and TALK to him and let him you what you expect out of him. In other words coach him.
Same as Kobe tell him to drive to rim and shoot lay up or dish or expose illegal D more. No more fade away jump shots if they are not falling.
As for quick point guards I saw positive things especially from Farmar when he dribble penetrated attacking the rim. Even Fish did good when he did the same. PJ should have told them to continue to do the same.
Radman did decent job against PP and way much better than Luke. As soon as Rad went out and Luke in PP had green light and lit him up for 8 straight points. The only thing about the last game is Rad did decent defense but his shots were not falling.
Vujacic shots not falling in last game but if so why leave him in? That is coaches decision. As for Turiaff playing out of position as well as Pau (both are PFs) then why not go for size with Odom at sf to guard PP Turiall to hassle KG and Pau/Mbenga vs Baby, Perkins and Brown. PJ has the players just does not use them. Also Cassel was eating JF and DF but was shut down by Ariza. Ariza could have then posted Cassel up. Mihm should never have been on the court as PJ refused to give him PT to shake off rust before playoffs. Mbenga would have been the go to guy as big off bench.
Luke never should have been on court as he is too slow and can't shoot a lick. He is bad matchup for playing against Celtics. And Ariza was ready when used properly as he held Cassel to zero points when matched agaist him and made steals. But again PJ did not give him many minutes to play to shake off rust.]
The Celtics had three scorers in the starting lineup; the Lakers had one, and two "sort ofs". The Celtics had three scorers on the bench (counting Cassell), the Lakers had one "sort of". The Celtics had good rebounders on the bench, the Lakers didn't.
[ Sorry but the Lakers had size and rebounding strength and that was left unused. Defense wins games. Lakers had a team but you need to use the cards you have and not mis use them and then throw the players under the bus after the game.]
The Celtics roster was better; JAckson did a very good job getting the Lakers two wins, and coming very close in three other games.
[ again I respectfully disagree as Lakers had the better overall team but they were not used. Doc kept telling his players we are team of 12 but PJ used only 7-8 and in the wrong places. Jackson did nothing especially coaching as the players stepped up for those 2 games in spite of PJ not doing a thing coaching wise all series.]
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 18, 2008 at 08:11 AM
JLF
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:58 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 18, 2008 at 05:27 PM
FOR THOSE BLOGGERS WHO ARE ASHAMED OF US LALER FANS FOR NOT CONGRATULATING THE LAKERS FOR A TERRIFIC SEASON. SHAME ON YOU
SHAME ON YOU FOR CONGRATULATING A TEAM THAT
1. SHOWED NOT HEART
2. SHOWED NO COMPETITIVE SPIRIT
3 BECAME A TRIVIA QUIZ ANSWER FOR BIGGEST CHOKERS
4. SHOWED NO BASKETBALL SKILLS
5. SHOWED NO COACHING STRATEGY
6. LAID DOWN AND DIED
7. EMBARRASSED LAKER TRADITION
8. SHOWED NO CREATIVITY
9. PLAYED LIKE SISSIES
10 LOST TO THE CELTICS BIG 3 PERENNIAL LOSERS
CONGRATULATIONS
Posted by: Do You See What I See | June 18, 2008 at 05:28 PM
agree 90% on you BK
i think what we need is a good defensive coach... someone to focus on the only weakness that was exposed this series.
one player out... defensive banger in.
if theres a few people inthe roster which can be dropped, it can be Mihm, radmanovich or walton (newble maybe).
Posted by: i_heart_LA | June 18, 2008 at 05:29 PM
Benjamin,
You didn't discuss the bench at all.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 18, 2008 at 05:33 PM
utzWorld,
Did you not know??? "Death hath no sting"
Jon K,
I responded to MT and I'm guessing others did also because I found his posts so funny. There were times I'd literally be rolling on the floor laughing hysterically.
Now that it's off season, I'd like to encourage some of those funny posts. Better yet.... Stranger in the Night will probably return and we'll have an all out laugh riot.
Dooo Beee Dooo Beee Dooo
Come on, give us some love guys!
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | June 18, 2008 at 05:35 PM
I just read the Lonnie White article. I like the guy's style - he just kind of lays it out there, straight forward. It was refreshing after the piling-on from Simers, Plaschke and Heisler - those guys should get over themselves.
Posted by: dave m | June 18, 2008 at 05:35 PM
The Celtics wanted it more. Plain and simple.
Trevor Ariza should have played more minutes. That block he had on Ray Allen was amazing.
You will never hear me say a bad thing about Phil Jackson, as I have too much respect for him; but benching Ariza after that block... well... I just don't get it.
Posted by: joey numbers | June 18, 2008 at 05:36 PM
Purple,
Not sure what game you were watching, but it wasn't the Lakers v Celtics. "Ariza just sat on the bench" - Uh, no he didn't. He was in the last half of the third quarter, while the Lakers were a -11. Not gonna bother reading the rest of it.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 18, 2008 at 05:36 PM
I have a feeling that Phil Jackson will be on the hot seat this summer! The way the Lakers lost this series was embarassing not to mention to the Celtics of all teams.
PJ again went into this matchup with a one dimensional mindset, I thought we scouted this team? But to be honest we looked like a fish out of water, scared and unprepared! Others may want to give this guy a pass but I choose to deal with reality!
Someone once said you can't teach an old dog new tricks! Phil Jackson may not be a dog, but his unwillingness to change is pathetic! PJ is in the comfort zone of his life and should be put out in the pasture to graze on the past. Because that's all he sees!
So long Chief 9 Rings!
Posted by: chuck23 | June 18, 2008 at 05:45 PM
This particular team will be alright next year. Especially with Andrew back. I do believe he would have altered the series considerably. There's no denying the fact that he's 280lbs and over 7ft tall. The only players that should go should be: Vlad and Walton. You gotta remember people, Trevor Ariza returned from a season long injury, Mihm had an ankle operation and AB was out. I would like to see Lamar as a bench player, rather than a starter. Could you imagine him as a sixth man? Also, why is nobody mentioning the fact that we need a good defensive assistant coach? That could make a world of difference you know. Ron Artest wouldn't hurt either.
Posted by: hectorartm | June 18, 2008 at 05:45 PM
FROM PALM BEACH, FL
A BIG THANK YOU TO THE KAMBROTHERS CUZ YOUR BLOG MAKES ME SO POPULAR INTERNATIONALLY. WHEN YOU SEARCH MY NAME, SHEKOBE ON THE WEB, MY COMMENTS FROM THE BLOG APPEARED IMMEDIATELY. I AM GRATEFUL FOR THAT AND FLATTERED.
SPECIAL THANKS TO MAMBA 24, JON K, LAKERTOM WHO ALWAYS HAVE POSITIVE VIBE ON THEIR WRITINGS FOR OUR TEAM.
WE HAVE A CLASSY BLOG WITH CLASSY AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. I THINK THAT BLOG IS THE MOST POPULAR IN SPORT.
VIVA THE KAMBROTHERS AND THE LAKERS FOR LIFE.
NEXT YEAR, DEFINITELY WILL BE BETTER
LOVE TO ALL
SHEKOBE FOREVER
Posted by: SHEKOBE | June 18, 2008 at 05:47 PM
BK, I agree with most of what you said, but I think that he only reason the Lakers should keep Odom is to lure Artest from the Kings since they're friends. I do like Odom's rebounding and if they could keep him, they should but he's such a valuable trade commodity this year that it would be a mistake to keep him. He's made so many bone headed plays with the Lakers throughout the years and it was extremely frustrating to hear that he partied after game 5, if that is true. Otherwise, I agree with pretty much what you said. Also, I think the Celtics really mortgaged their future by signing three players making $20 mil. Although they'll still be awesome next year, even without resigning Posey and Tony Allen, their salary is $78 million and three years from now, their team will be Perkins, Baby Face, Rondo, Allen, and Posey. Another 20 years of failure.
Posted by: sclakerfan | June 18, 2008 at 04:38 PM
I think also that LO if he works on jumper in off season and Artest comes as FA then LO can come off bench at SF or spell Pau at PF. We would be very deep. When LO comes in at PF then Ariza can spell RA.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 18, 2008 at 05:48 PM
I agree with the no trade LO thing completely. Not only is he a very good player but also a very good teammate. At least it seems that way from the outside. I think someone players like is a big plus.
Is it possible that as a team the Lakers are too nice? I do not think so. First Kobe has an awesome will to win. Second I never confuse nice with weak. I really loved the fact that the Lakers seem to have a bunch of nice decent guys playing for them now. I suppose fans of other teams might go what...but they seem like a good bunch.
And the Wizard of Westwood was a very nice and decent guy and he did a fair amount of winning. Can be nice and still have a desire to win. BTW Garnett also seems like a geniuely nice guy who recognizes the people in his life who have helped him so I am happy for him that he won. I think LO is important for team chemistry and he could be great as a super 6th or maybe that imposing front line.
It is exactly correct the team needs tweaks nothing more. Or I would venture even so far as this. Another year of playing together, Bynum back, players getting better, and the team learning from this year I would gladly take the Lakers against any other team for next year in a bet and a heartbeat. However a Bowenesque addition would go a long way as well.
So major changes are NOT needed. As for Kwame coming back. Seems like a nice enough guy but he REALLY can not play basketball. I thought the Pau trade was great not only for getting Gasol but also subtracting Kwame.
Posted by: Larry of LA | June 18, 2008 at 05:49 PM
Good post Benjamin from Australia. You are one true Laker fan. Like i said before, i am willing to part with Vlad and Luke for a player that plays tough D and makes jump shots. Otherwise, let this team play one whole season without injuries and i gaurantee a Championship!
Posted by: hyns | June 18, 2008 at 05:51 PM
Big Al,
I like all of your suggestions and I'll add a few:
12. Bynum & Gasol: sky hook. Talk to Cap. Learn it. Live it.
13. Sasha: Work on two things: finishing when you drive
to the hoop (get Farmar to help you) and faking a defender
in the air to draw a three point foul. Sasha could have
had half a dozen of these against the Celtics, but he
always dribbled around the defender and shot.
14. Kobe: Work with your players, especially your young
players. Start building the timing so that it's instinctual,
so that there are no passes thrown wizzing past someone's
head.
15. Ronny: Work on your 12-15 foot jump shot. With Bynum
back and Gasol playing some minutes at the C, you'll be
playing more PF, and that mid-range jumper will come in
handy.
16. Mitch: You've got a decent core of players with only a
few weak spots. Re-sign Ronny & Sasha, but you can
probably do better than Newble and MBenga. Having just
made the finals, there will be some veterans who would
love to join a near-championship team (like Posey and
PJ Brown for the Celtics this year). Find them. Sign them.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 18, 2008 at 05:52 PM
Edwin ,
Some one posted the site again about RA as FA. Here is the article.
RUMOR HAS IT…
Today's section is geared exclusively towards the latest rumors floating around the NBA …
Opting Out? Multiple sources tell HOOPSWORLD that Ron Artest is seriously considering opting out of the final year of his contract. Artest can stick with the Sacramento Kings for one final year at $7.4 million or choose to become an unrestricted free agent this summer.
Should Artest choose to opt out, he would likely look for a full Mid Level Exception (MLE) deal with a championship contender such as the Los Angeles Lakers, San Antonio Spurs or even the New Orleans Hornets.
The current MLE starts at $5.356 million. While it may climb slightly, Artest is said to be open to the idea of a five-year, $31 million contract. One source says Artest believes he's worth far more than that, but is coming to grips with the NBA's tightening economic climate.
Very few teams have cap room this summer. Unless the Kings are willing to give Artest a long-term extension, he'd be in a similar situation next year. There may be a few more teams with space, but there's a high probability they're unwilling to spend it on a player with such a "difficult" reputation.
Artest has somewhat avoided trouble in Sacramento but he did have numerous run-ins with Coach Reggie Theus this past season.
If Artest embraces the notion that he may never get a deal larger than the MLE, he may forgo the additional ~$2.1 million to stay with the Kings and lock in as much long term money as he can this summer.
The Spurs are said to have tremendous interest. The talent alongside the big three of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili is waning. Artest would give San Antonio a worthy successor to the 37-year old Bruce Bowen.
It's a little trickier with the Lakers considering the contracts they have committed to Vladimir Radmanovic and Luke Walton. Since neither has made a particularly high impact this season, LA may be open to the idea despite the financial repercussions.
Coach Phil Jackson has always been interested in Artest. Imagine the team currently playing in the NBA Finals with the addition of Artest along with the return of Andrew Bynum. Artest also has a strong relationship with both Kobe Bryant and Lamar Odom.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 18, 2008 at 05:57 PM
>>>We can jettison Mihm, Benga, Karl, Newble, and
>>>Radmonovic.
It ain't quite that simple. Mihm, Benga, Newble and Karl are
all fairly cheap to let go. If you cut Rad, his salary still counts
against the books for 3 more years. And it's not like there's
some better player who's a free agent who will play for free.
If he could be traded for someone better, they should do it.
If not, they should put him as far down the depth charts as
possible. He's there as an insurance policy in case a
player or two gets injured. Or he's a designated shooter
off the bench.
And what's more, since they're going to have to pay Mihm
for next season whether they play him or not, I'd also keep
him around unless they can trade him for someone. If you
cut him, you can't just spend that 1.5 million on somebody
else, and Mihm's already familiar with the triangle.
With a summer to get back in shape, Mihm could
conceivably look promising enough early next season
that the Lakers could trade him for someone decent (lots
of teams would pay 1.5 million for a year of Mihm if he
was playing at the level he played before his injury.
Maybe they could get back a young player with some
promise who hasn't blossomed yet. Memphis needs more
size... how about Critter? How would that be for irony?
So basically, if Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, and Baron
Davis all opt out of their contracts and agree to play for
the Lakers for 1 million each, yeah, cut all those guys.
But if you don't already have a better guy signed up,
then you might as well hang onto Rad, Mihm, and even
Karl
until something better comes along. I'd give Newble and
Congolian Beef their walking papers now, though.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 18, 2008 at 06:07 PM
Lakerz4Realz,
>>>HMM NO THANKS..AGAIN HE IS A CELT AS FAR AS I
>>>AM CONCERNED..WE DONT NEED THEIR STINKING
>>>GARBAGE ON OUR TEAM.
Let's see... hard nosed SF who can hit 3's and roughs up
players on the other team. And he's a Celtic right now, so
you don't want him...
Ever heard of Rick Fox?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 18, 2008 at 06:09 PM
I don't understand!
Whats with all these propositions here? The celtics were just a better team period.
I don't think we should be satisfied with what this Laker have accomplished this single season. Howerer, its necessary to understand that the Lakers were not at full potential (not an excuse when you beat the champions).
We as human being are so hard to please! and the most disgusting thing is that some people continually keep changing their mind about certain players that this team has. One minute they're saying the Laker should keep Gasol and Odom, the next minute they're saying the Laker should trade them.
This was just one season together that it! Stop judging the team base on their single performance in the finals! They got too far for what everyone were saying at the biginning of the season.
I've seen some people saying that we should get this X and Y player to help this team! This is not about an All Star Team (Kobe, Artest, Melo, etc etc) this is about players who know their role and are willing to help the team the hard way in those positions they occupy on the court.
Its ok for Kobe to burn his defender in our point of view but its never ok for those other all stars such as Ginobilli and Pierce etc to burn our defenders??? We are embarassing ourselves with all these comments here.
Its ok to be mad! its ok to be upset! Its ok to be sad! whatever we are right now! But the reality is, the lakers need to focus on improving the areas where they are weak and that don't necessarily mean we have to trade role players for all stars!
Role players helped the Celtics win it all! They had only three all stars on their starting lineup and a couple of old players on the bench who were hungrier than a couple of our young role players on the bench.
Yes! Vladimir was the weakest link in this finals in terms of scoring and defending his position but so was the rest of the team! So, do a good job acquiring player to substitute Gasol, Odom, Kobe, Fisher and Bynum... I am personally ok with Sasha, Farmar, Ariza and uhmmm Turiaf! ... Vladmir, Walton, Mihm, Mbenga sorry they definitely have to work hard and understand that this is not about just scoring and help foul the oposition! Its about doing a Posey and Powe type of job.
Oh someone said that the lakers should acquire Posey? Did you hear what he just said about Garnett?? hmm interesting...
I don't remember the right words but it was an indirect shot to Kobe Bryant when he said that "Garnett is not the type of all star players like many who cry about leaving a team thats is struggling"
Now... whatever! I am definitely happy for KG and sad because it was in the expense of my beloved Lakers
Posted by: Maxximo | June 18, 2008 at 06:13 PM
IS KOBE BRYANT MINUS SHAQ
ALLEN IVERSON
I DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT
NO, AI COULD NEVER WILL HIS TEAM TO THE FINALS
IS PHIL JACKSON MINUS A STUD TEAM FLIP SAUNDERS?
YES
Posted by: Do You See What I See | June 18, 2008 at 06:16 PM
Jon K,
>>>Bring on Quinton Ross, Sun Yue, and maybe (but
>>>probably not Kwame Brown). Let go of Ira Newble and
>>>(maybe) DJ Mbenga.
All good ideas.
How `bout this one... The hoopsworld article says that Houston
is pushing to get Ron Artest, and insinuating that Artest may
opt out and take less money to play for a contender. If
Houston gets Artest, what would you think of LA making
a play for Shane Battier. Good defensive SF who's a
decent, but not great 3-point shooter.
And in fact, Houston is lacking in 3-point shooters. Only
Steve Novak shot over 40% on 3's for them last season,
and he only plays 7 minutes a game. So what if the Lakers
offered them Rad for Battier? Houston gets a better shooter
to back up Artest, Lakers get a lock-down wing defender.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 18, 2008 at 06:24 PM
Jon K.,
I agree completely.
To everyone calling for major changes. Look at what Dallas and Phoenix did this year. They were pretty legit contenders and they blew heir teams up only to find themselves eliminated in the first round.
Everyone wants to find someone to blame, but the truth is that we got beat by a team that wanted it more and played with more passion and heart than we did. I don't think our young team can quite grasp what it means to be in the finals, and as a result they didn't play with the heart and passion that they needed to in order to win the series. Having gone through I think they have a better understanding of what it takes to win a championship, and I think that every guy on our team is willing to do what it takes.
Experience really is underrated. You never really see these young teams win, and it's because somewhere along the way they get beat by a team that has more experience and understands what they need to do to get the job done.
We got the experience, now let's get the championship.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: gokobego | June 18, 2008 at 06:39 PM
Well, that last game was terribly painful. Still, it was a good year, much better than I would have thought at the beginning. I think there are some questions we need to answer before preparing for any parades next year though.
I'm not sure how the frontline is gonna work with Bynum next year. Specifically, I've wondered since the trade whether Gasol could handle being a third option, and what we do with Lamar with a frontline so big and without a lot of range.
We're really going to need Farmer to step up at point next year. I thought Fish was breaking down during the playoffs, and that's only going to get worse, not better.
I've never been sold on Vlad, and we need to get more from our bench, or get different people for it. It's the inconsistency that bothers me. They're all capable of really helping, or really sucking, and there's no way of knowing what you're going to get.
We got out-coached in the Finals. By Doc Rivers. I think that might be more shocking than losing.
We have to get better than we are right now. There are at least three young teams in the West I can think of that are only going to get better, and I like their young guys better than ours.
Still, it was a really good year. I hope we can build on it.
Oh, gotta say it. Kwame Brown? MIke T, you are completely out of your mind, but then, that was always true.
Posted by: Michael A | June 18, 2008 at 06:47 PM
I'm definitely not saying give LO away for nothing. There are good reasons to keep him since he'd match up well against other PF like David West and Boozer. If he can make 35% of his 3 pointers, and most players usually improve on that over time, I'd definitely keep him. And I agree that he'd be a decent back up power forward even if he doesn't improve on his outside shooting, but any offers such as Baron Davis, and even Marion if they don't get Artest, or Brandt in a sign and trade, or something of that nature would be worth it. I'd definitely would not do it for just a couple of veteran role players. That would be a huge mistake.
As for Gasol, trading him would be a huge mistake. I think if you think about teams like Portland coming up, they'll have Aldredge and Oden, and the Lakers will need both Gasol and Bynum to match up to these guys.
Posted by: sclakerfan | June 18, 2008 at 06:50 PM
ron artest..........
HELL NO.........
I rather have JOSH SMITH are MIKE MILLER.........at SF both are young players to go with are young team......an let them develope together.
FISHER
KOBE
JOSH SMITH........MILLER
PAU
DREW.
would compete with any team.
Bench
farmar
sasha
ariza
vlad
ronny........the real bench mob.........no luke.
Posted by: COMPTON FINEST | June 18, 2008 at 06:57 PM
I never understood why the Lakers didn't play LO at the one. That really would have help open the lane more for Kobe against boston. Oh well hindsight is 20 20.
I'm torn when it comes to LO, I really want to see him succeed in a laker uni but he was a little hard to watch in the finals. I agree with BK that Lo was agressive about gooing to the lane ot just that he was going for to many layups and not enough dunks ala Pau. But t be fair the celtics made the whole laker squad look bad including kobe, I haven't seem him look that bad since the detroit series...ugh!!!
I think the lakers should see how LO works out with bynum, pau and kobe before they make any drastic moves. i understand they got their asses handed to them in the finals but remeber the last time the lakers made a drastic change after a finals loss we got 3 yrs of mediocrity, kwame brown and a pissed off kobe that wanted to be traded. The lakers and we fans need to just sit back take a breath, enjoy the olympics, aquire artest or marion (i prefer artest), try to get a backup big with balls ( I like obryant if he can keep his head on straight but he might not have the body type we may need), and I think its now apparent that trading Vlad (especially if sasha is resigned) and possibly Luke need to made top priorities. I totally agree that this team needs to be tweeked not blown up.
The lakers had the same issue when the first played boston in 82 -lakers were the favorites - lost -tweeked the team- beat boston the following year and became a dynasty. History can and will repeat itself
Posted by: richtown | June 18, 2008 at 07:00 PM
what about LO and luke walton for baron davis if he doesnt opt out and then we sign ron artest for the mid level exception
Posted by: jt | June 18, 2008 at 07:01 PM
I wouldn't trash LO just yet. We have yet to see him play with Bynum, Gasol and Kobe together. We have yet to see what PJ can do with the same combination.
Turiaf has so much heart and talent and is so young. He could start for many teams.
We need toughness and consistency in the rest of the line-up. This means Walton and Rad-man must go!! No team can afford such inconsistency and weakness. Package them (even with a draft pick) to bring in a pounding veteran forward with strong stat history. Look what the Celtics did to get KG and Ray Allen.
Look what the Lakers did to get Pau!! Good Grief!! Do that one again Mitch.
Keep the kids. Jordan and Sasha will continue to develop and are stronger for having been through this NBA FInals experience (disaster). The Lakers are one of the youngest teams in the NBA. Be Smart!!
Posted by: aquamar | June 18, 2008 at 07:07 PM
AK/BK -
Thanks for keeping the blog in fantastic shape for the past season. I really appreciated it (being out here in the alcohol-filled bubble that is Lubbock, Texas).
Family - Good Evening Everyone! I hope your day is ending well, preferably with friends or family (or both).
Jon K. - Quentin Ross? That's rather intriguing. I'm curious if he shoots well enough from 3-point range to play small forward for the Lake Show. Also, he seems to be a bit too skinny without being tall enough to counteract that (see Tayshawn Prince). All of those other superlatives you mention are spot on.
Family - There is NO way I'm trading L.O. That man (as a SF playing out of position) had to guard the other team's C (who outweighed him by a considerable amount). What I suggest is that we have a year in which we have health for the entire season; then we can gel as a unit, and really go from there.
There's a bunch of stuff that needs to be sorted; I'm not advocating that we shift anyone around except for possibly the last two spots. Jordan will work hard this summer (especially on that 3-pt jumper), and we'll get this thing back down pat.
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | June 18, 2008 at 07:10 PM
Thank god people on this blog aren't the Laker GM. If that were the case we wouldn't have Bynum or Odom and instead an old Jkidd or an overrated Jermaine Oneal. Keep all the big pieces in tact i.e. DON'T TRADE LAMAR ODOM.
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | June 18, 2008 at 07:17 PM
No need for JO on this team. He always injured, Artest is crazy but he's the type of baller the the Lakers need to take them over the edge. Overall he hasn't been much of a trouble maker in Sac. And in LA artest would be perfect replacement for vlad. The hard part is trying to find a team willing to take his God awful contract. It's times like this you wish Isiah was still in charge in NY
Posted by: richtown | June 18, 2008 at 07:17 PM
I guess the off season has begun when the Kwam is the subject of the blog.
Resume- 6'11 center, great calves, comes with A fan, will do anything to win except : shoot, dribble, rebound, catch, block, play team defense. Led league in assists in scoring for the other team. Great trade bait, twice traded for allstars. Starting center on teams with Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.
Posted by: p ang | June 18, 2008 at 07:17 PM
I have a suggestion to Lakers in case they feel it was a mistake to give the current contract to Luke Walton.
Since Lakers will be way over the cap space next few years, Luke's contract could cost Lakers about $10 million years with Luxury Tax included. Why not simply waive him with full pay under a clause that if he plays for another Pro team, the pay from Lakers will be offset by the income from another team. Since Luke is likely to get a veteran minimum contract from other team worth $1.2 million a year, Lakers will be saving over $6 million dollars a year from their mistake.
Posted by: nicksi | June 18, 2008 at 07:20 PM
I remember PJ saying before the finals that the Celtics playing 2 7-game rounds may have played to their advantage because a team learns from that. I think that is exactly what happened. Boston got tougher as the playoffs went along and was a much different team by the time they faced Detroit.
We, on the other hand, had a much easier road to the Finals. We never really had our backs against the wall throughout the Western playoffs. What if we won the San Antonio series in 7 games instead of 5? Would it have given our guys the mental toughness that they seemingly lacked during the Finals? Maybe not. Or maybe.
I still love this team. I love this group of guys, but I do agree that the SF position needs an upgrade if possible. I will support whatever happens to the makeup of this team this summer. I am so looking forward to the next season.
I believe our journey to the championship has started. Thank you, Lakers for a good year. We got to the Finals this year. We lost to a good team, but man, what a great ride that was to get there.
I will always be a Laker fan.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: hoping | June 18, 2008 at 07:24 PM
Benjamin..Great to have another Aussie Laker fan around.
Good post as well...The Lakers need to address the future of a few players...Luke Walton..Despite what some bloggers say about look and how well he complements the triangle,he has become a liability ..Vlad..I think Phill may have hurt his head a little with the way he was used in the rotation eg,starting alot of games and not finishing them.Some players lack self confidence and Vlad is one of them..Ronny..The most worrying thing about Ronny is the lack of rebounds someone of his size didnt have...Very few..The big problem that the front office faces is the amount of money owed to Luke and Vlad...
Posted by: Thirty2 | June 18, 2008 at 07:31 PM
Lamar and Pau together for an entire season will be awesome! For all but the Finals, they've showed great chemistry. And with Drew back, that is simply an amazing frontline.
Don't overreact after one bad series.
The future is bright. The Celtics are old, and the Lakers are young.
Posted by: maui dude | June 18, 2008 at 07:31 PM
does anyone if the lakers are going to do exit interviews ?
and if so when?
Posted by: gigi | June 18, 2008 at 07:33 PM
losing the finals feels like losing your girlfriend to another guy.
Posted by: joey | June 18, 2008 at 07:33 PM
Laker fans. Please stop whining. I promise when your young
pretty team beats our old, ugly team next year that I won't
whine. I'll shrug my shoulders and say the best team won.
Then I'll go on with my life - because I have one!
Posted by: CUNextYear | June 18, 2008 at 07:39 PM
Hello Family,
San Diego in the blog! Trade rumors should rest till July. Let's love this team that over achieved.
I just want to say how awesome this blog is.
Charles, thank you for exterminating that troll. I mean damn! That dude is out for the count. I respect you amongst a majority of the bloggers.
AK-BK for Co-Presidents.
Jon K I like Ross but he might be too small for the starting SF's like Pierce, Anthony, Artest, James. Maybe as a back up 3?
Posted by: Loyal to the Lakers | June 18, 2008 at 07:40 PM