A few thoughts on the afternoon after
June 18, 2008 | 3:44
pm
No question last night's carnage will sting for a while. It should. In terms of product quality, what the Lakers trotted out Tuesday night in Boston was the basketball equivalent of expired olives and curdled milk. Inedible. Indigestible. Unfit for human consumption. It was a tough way to end what was a remarkable season, but on the bright side, the foul taste it leaves in the mouths of players and coaches should help push them through the summer and into next season. The Finals was a reminder that the Lakers still have work to do and holes to fill.
Obviously, we'll have a lot of thoughts on the season past and the one upcoming as the Lakers work through exit interviews, the draft (though on the surface, they won't have much to do there), and the NBA's free agency period. But here are a few quick thoughts on the series, the season, and looking forward (as they float through my head, in no particular order):
- I understand the disappointment with losing in the Finals, and certainly once a team gets to that point in the season, there is a reasonable expectation of a title, but overall people should be exceedingly pleased with the 2007-2008 season. It was a huge success, especially given the grim state of the franchise only one year ago. To go from there to losing in Game 6 of the championship series is remarkable. That the team is poised to compete on that level for the next half-decade or so should only make people more excited.
- The Lakers didn't put their best foot forward in the Finals, but it's important to give credit where it's due- the Celtics. Boston's defensive schemes brutalized the Lakers offense, and more than that, the Celtics offense was patient and exploited holes in LA's defense. Before the series, I looked at the way Boston struggled to score on their playoff opponents, and thought they'd be at a disadvantage against what I felt was an underrated Lakers D. Fair to say I was wrong, not just about that, but about the strength of the Celtics generally.
- They were the better team, made better by the matchups. LA wasn't a good fit with Boston.
- Boston's bench outplayed LA's, but not simply because they have better players, but a better variety. It was a great mix of experience (Brown, Cassell, Posey), muscle (Powe, Brown), and shooting (House, Posey), defense (Posey, Tony Allen, if you want to include him) and so on that helped Doc find the combinations he used so effectively. The Lakers bench isn't necessarily bad, but it lacks variety. This offseason, the Lakers should look to fill roles. A bruiser, a defensive specialist, and so on, until they have true balance up and down the active roster. As good as LA's bench was at times this season, at others, they really struggled. This experience, though, should help guys like Farmar and Vujacic.
- Along those lines, playing with the lesser team and therefore a smaller margin for error, the Lakers
needed Phil Jackson to be superior during the series, and he wasn't.
- The Celtics proved that when it comes to defense, the sum is often greater than the parts. The Lakers took positive steps defensively this season, but received six chances to see up close and personal how it well it can be done. It was too easy for Boston to pull LA out of their defensive rhythm, and the Lakers were prone to too many big, series shifting mistakes.
- I thought Pau Gasol had done a better job in the series than he had been given credit for, particularly on defense... until last night. He was bad from the start, and the misfortune he saw early only compounded his problems and that of his team. LO's play improved as the series went on, once he calmed down and figured out how to stay on the court. While he had trouble finishing around the rim- something we've seen before- I think the knock that he was soft or unaggressive isn't fair. He generally attacked the rack and was active on the glass over the final three games. Asked to do a variety of things defensively, Odom did a pretty good job. Could he have played better? Did the Lakers need more? Yes, to both. But while it's always easier to cast people in roles, to say "If that guy did more, the Lakers would have won," it's not that simple, and to pin the loss on Odom doesn't sit right with me.
- Kobe: Clearly had trouble shooting the ball, thanks to some extremely aggressive Boston defense. It wasn't a good series for him, but at the same time, I don't think we saw much of the "old Kobe." After Game 5, when asked if he needed to go for 40+ for the Lakers to have a chance against the Celtics in Boston, Kobe told the media that he could probably force his way to 45, but that's not the way they were going to win. He's right, and he didn't. Not that he didn't (or shouldn't- he is Kobe Bryant after all) try to look for his space. But despite what I'm sure was an overwhelming temptation to start jacking shots left and right, for the most part Kobe tried to continue moving the ball, recognizing that he couldn't shoot the Lakers to a win. Boston wouldn't let him.
- The Lakers needed to elevate their play as a team, and weren't able to do it. As a team, from Kobe on down.
- Regarding Odom, people should be careful when they demand he be moved. First, he's among the team's only rebounders. When Drew returns, they'll have another, but LO is as strong a force on the glass as the team has. That would have to be replaced. Second, with Odom the Lakers have a guy who is completely willing to play the role of "third or fourth guy." He doesn't need, or particularly want, to shoot the ball 18 times a game. Given that they'll have Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol next season, it might not be a good idea to bring in someone who "needs his." Yes, he can be frustrating, but it's a question of the devil you know vs. the devil you don't. The devil they have isn't so bad.
- I'd love to see if they can make the Bynum/Gasol/Odom frontcourt work, or perhaps see if Odom could be a kind of Super Sixth Man, rather than deciding it won't and moving LO in the offseason.
- The Lakers, and this could be solved naturally next year with LO at the three, need to improve that spot on the roster. Even if Odom moves there to start, they need help. Ariza is a good place to start, but if there's a focus in free agency this summer, small forward should be it.
- This team needs tweaks, not a sledgehammer.
- Few teams, including the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, win the whole thing so
soon after returning to potential championship form. The Celtics are
an exception to that rule, but then again, that roster is an exception
to the general laws of roster construction as well. What they did and
how they did it is a rare, rare thing.
There are plenty more things to kick around. Like I said, this is just a stream-of-consciousness list. It's not all inclusive, by any stretch.
BK
I can't believe these writers are judging the Lakers and their future, based on that last game! "Bynum better keep developing, or else". First of all, you put a healthy Andrew Bynum in the mix for this series, as he was back in Jan., and the Lakers win this series as is. People don't realize how many shots he alters. So next season the Lakers will be even better, there is no doubt about it. Why are these writers saying "they better improve, or else" or "Bynum better keep developing, or else". Please! How about this:
Boston should be worried about their future!
They're the ones who have no missing starter coming back. No one expected to have huge development, just Rondo becoming a better point guard. The eventual retirement of Cassell and PJ Brown. They actually are in dire need to sign some bench players. And the big 3 isn't getting any younger.
I didn't hear enough of the Celtics saying they would be back next season, which gives the impression, especially for Cassell and Brown, that this one single championship is enough for them. That after all that losing, they finally won. They're "certified" now, as KG put it. Where's their hunger for more?
The Lakers on the other hand sound very hungry for a championship, very determined to make it work with Bynum, starting this October.
And man, how lame was KG during the ceremony!?!
Some of the dumb stuff he said: "anything's possible...ANYTHING"S POSSIBBBLLLLE!". Hilarious!! He should be a comedian!
Then he curses on live TV. And then. And then....he says to Michelle Tafoya,...
"Michelle, you look good tonight, girl! You look good!"
KG hitting on the interviewer. wow.
I there was any doubt earlier, it's gone now. I hate the Celtics. And KG, Allen, & Pierce. Interesting how the Celtics had the commercials with Pierce & KG holding the championship trophy, before they've won it mind you, while there was no such commercial for the Lakers.
I'm proud of my Lakers. This experience will greatly and positively transform the young Lakers for their future championships.
73-9 in 2009! Home court advantage in the Finals!
Posted by: ajax | June 18, 2008 at 03:49 PM
Listen Lakers Nation:
There ARE NO GUARANTEES when it comes to sports!!! THIS loss hurts like hell because we lost to those friggin Evil C's!!! Man, i hate those green weenies.
I do not want to hear about this team being young, we'll be back next year, blah blah blah.
Sure, no one expected this team to get to the finals, BUT when you get there -- you HAVE to win the damn thing!!!
I wrote before the series started. I was worried. Concerned. It scared me that most of the national sports media was picking the Lakers to win. I've suffered (along with many of you) over the years to an assortment of STRANGE happenings that added up to losing series after series to those damn Celtics: crazy bounces, stolen passes, getting clotheslined and beaten up, their towel waving, taunting, bullying, and the list goes on and on!!!
And, now having to endure these fricken Celtic's trolls coming to OUR blog is beyond unbearable!!!
Is it any wonder that some of the long-time posters (like LakerTom) are now where to be found? I TOTALLY understand and share the pain!
Before the series began, I was gonna write that the NEXT time the Lakers beat the Celtics would be the FIRST time this season. The Lakers just seemed to be out of synch and not themselves during their 2 regular season losses. And, both games weren't even close. It was like the evil C's had some kind of weird spell over us.
Then, it got worse when we lost both opening games in Boston. I exhaled just slightly when we FINALLY beat the C's in Game 3, but then Game 4 happened -- and the whole city got its heart ripped out.
In hindsight, I think the series was lost right there! Win that game, and its 2-2 with all the momentum on the Lakers side.
What the hell was Phil Jackson doing while his team was folding like a cheap tent? He was just casually sitting there as if he didn't have a care in the world - he should have used every T.O. he had in that pivotal 3rd quarter to try to turn around the momentum. But, he did nothing. He didn't try different combinations of players. Ariza just sat on the bench, even though he played inspired ball in the first half. And DFish sat for too long while Farmar got abused. Little actions (or lack thereof) tend to snowball into bigger consequences, and PJ's quirky coaching habits have built and built and been exposed on the biggest stage of all: the NBA Finals.
UTTERLY PATHETIC.
For these reasons (and more) the Los Angeles Lakers NEED a coaching change at the top. I understand that PJ has one year (and 12 million) left on his coaching contract, but when it expires -- HE NEEDS TO GO!!!
The game has passed him by. I'm sick and tired of his stubborn and headstrong ways. I'm tired of him 'saving' his TO's and sitting there like a wooden indian when his team is getting blown out!!!
I'm starting to believe that maybe red auerbach's evil spirit is hexing PJ's attempt to get that 10th ring. 0-2 in the past two NBA finals? Where's the heart? Where's the passion? Where is stupid 9rings???
Another thing that ticks me off about PJ is that it is never his fault. He never takes responsibility for anything: it's always the refs, or his own player's mistake, or some other outside circumstance.
Bottom line is, PJ is a hired gun. I want to see a Laker Lifer coaching this team next. I want to see BScott, or Rambis, or another Laker at the helm.
I want to the see the Lakers make a STRONG PUSH to get some tough-minded players like Artest!!!
The pain is too fresh... I don't want to hear any GHF crap about next season. Not yet. Maybe by the time Labor Day rolls around...
P & G R
Posted by: Purple & Gold Reign | June 18, 2008 at 03:50 PM
It amazes me how so many are willing to apologize and apologize for Odom.
He needs to go.
The Odom experiment is over; as was the Kwame Brown experiment.
PRAY ARTEST OPTS OUT AND COMES TO THE LAKERS....................PROBLEM SOLVED.
Posted by: Ben | June 18, 2008 at 03:51 PM
I couldn't have said it any better myself. I am extremely depressed about the ending to our season, and I don't know how soon I'll get over it. That doesn't take away from the fact that this was a FREAKIN' AMAZING! season considering where we started in November.
We (Lakers and fans) have very little to be ashamed of and much to be proud of. Hold your heads high, wipe the tears and look forward to next season. We can only go up from here, right?
LAKERS FOREVER!!!
Posted by: SoCalGal | June 18, 2008 at 03:52 PM
BK - only thing you got right was calling out PJ. . . LO LAMAR must GO should Go and will GO. . . I / we [the real los angelenos] have tolerated 4 years too long of his weak / inconsistent play, lack of a vertical leap, no dunking ability, smiling gameface [only he is smiling b/c of his big fat pay days for part time work] . . . dont you have a B team in ST Louis you can critique?
Posted by: | June 18, 2008 at 03:57 PM
The key is to NOT PANIC !!! Yes the Western Conference is tough with Utah & New Orleans becoming even more of a factor next season. I can see RAD-MAN traded. But Sasha and Ronny will need to be re-signed. We've forgotten what Turiaf brought to the table throughout the season. I still say like I've said all along that Kwame, yes Kwame Brown will be brought back at a even for Kwame bargain rate. I think we could use a small-forward with perimeter shooting skills. I'd love to see a line-up like this:
Kobe
Sasha
Odom
Gasol
Bynum
Ariza also needs to be re-sgned if he opts out. Last I heard Mihm had a player option. Luke plays better as a starter !
Posted by: LALAKERLOVER | June 18, 2008 at 03:58 PM
Well said, even shaq and kobe couldn't win it all their first years
Posted by: TrueLakerFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:00 PM
i am proud of the lakers. They were picked by everyone at the beginning of the season to finish 8th or out of the playoffs. But I would was reading some articles and thought that we have to add someone like Ron Artest or Shawn Marion, or even Gilbert Arenas or Elton Brand. Get rid of Luke Walton and Radmonivic. Just imagine Fisher, Kobe, Odom, (Marion, Artest, Arenas) Gasol and Bynum the 2009 Champs
Posted by: emer | June 18, 2008 at 04:00 PM
Okay, I don't mind keeping Gasol as long as we can still get Posey and R. Artest. We must keep Lamar for rebounding only. I'll give Gasol one more year to see what he can do, especially at the 4 spot.
I still say we keep Sasha, because the guy is young and will only get better.
We have to keep Kobe, Fish, Lamar, Bynum, Gasol (reluctantly), Sasha, Roni. Everybody else can be traded.
On the positive side, I really think we have a team for the future. Miami and Boston are teams for right now, the Lakers are teams for a few years.
We basically traded 1 guaranteed championship for a dynasty. I don't mind that.
Great times ahead for us, bloggers.
Lakers Forever!
Posted by: troy | June 18, 2008 at 04:03 PM
I respect your views, I just don't see how Bynum, Gasol, Odom is going to work. If you were playing the Lakers, wouldn't you pack the middle against that lineup? Lamar, Kobe and Fisher would be free to shoot as many jumpshots as they want. Kobe or Fish could get hot for about a quarter, then Lamar would lose interest and disappear for the rest of the game, rinse, recycle and repeat.
We could trade Gasol... but... for who? I have no idea... Also, how would Odom fare on defense against the better/quicker SF's in the league? I just don't see the Odom at SF experiment working out though the Lakers could sit on him through training camp and into the season, waiting for somebody to become disgruntled... like, say a Carmelo Anthony? Wouldn't that be a doozy?
The first domino might actually be at PG. I'm sure there are ideas flying around Lakertown right now with the draft and free agency coming up so fast.
Posted by: TaosHum | June 18, 2008 at 04:07 PM
BK - The only comment you got right was calling out PJ!! LAMAR must GO and will GO. Maybe you're okay [your not a true Los Angeleno] w/ mediocrity and Lamar' inability to leave his feet, contest a drive, poor FT %, smiley game face, and inconsistent overall play, but we the Laker Los Angeleno' expect greatness, expect when you strap on the purple & gold to be leave it all out on floor. . . Maybe your eyes and weak basketball mind are better served critiquing a high school basketbal teams somewhere in St Louis. . . Bad write up at your end DUDE!!
Posted by: RedHottLAFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:08 PM
Yes, AK, small forward is the weak link of the Lakers lineup. I'm anticipating a healthy Ariza next year, which will be great, but we definitely need to address that glaring hole in our roster.
Good, solid analysis.
Go Lake Show!
Posted by: The Outlaw | June 18, 2008 at 04:08 PM
Lamar needs to be traded for someone who doesn't have a "Clippers" mentality. If Shawn Marion opts out, I would think the Lakers have to be interested in a swap. We need some bangers on this team!
Posted by: Oznonymous | June 18, 2008 at 04:08 PM
BK said: "No question last night's carnage will sting for a while. It should."
I'm already over it.
I cried for a bit during the 4th quarter. I tossed and turned and struggled to sleep last night. I woke up hesitant to even read a single word on The Blog today.
And then I saw Faith, Mamba, Edwin & the Patriarchs reminding us to keep our heads up. And then I prayed and thanked God for allowing us to overcome the trolls & haters to get here.
And I saw my fellow Blog Family expressing hope and faith in the midst of this loss.
And then...POOF! The sting was gone. THE STING IS GONE!
Posted by: utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER | June 18, 2008 at 04:09 PM
Knowing Kobe, I think he will take this personally.
I think it will be his lifetime goal to beat the Celtics in every imaginable way just to get the W from them.
Be ready for next year.
Posted by: KobeWatcher | June 18, 2008 at 04:09 PM
BK - your write up was as SOFT as the team you were writing up. . .
Posted by: RedHottLAFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:10 PM
Watching the Lakers have their way through the semis and western finals I though they would surely match up better against Boston. The, "Intangibles", were not glaringly evident before the finals started, they are now and the eastern conference is once again the bully of the block and has a psychological edge in the NBA until someone plays smash mouth against them and wins.
What really jolts me is trying to imagine any other western conference team that could have looked any better the against the Celtics. What a scarey thought.
The Lakers will need a tweak or two at key positions, but overall, they need to click as a team; one mind one purpose and seamless execution.
I think the entire western division needs to step it up to avoid being dominated by an easter conference that has its mojo back and will be bringing it all next season.
Posted by: Bill Underwood | June 18, 2008 at 04:10 PM
One thing that might have cost a game or two during the finals, or a least a mental edge. Home court advantage throughout the playoffs. There is alot to be said for starting off on the right foot.
Posted by: #4 | June 18, 2008 at 04:12 PM
BK, do you know when the Olympics start for basketball? I can't find it online.
Posted by: ajax | June 18, 2008 at 04:14 PM
Sure Odom can get rebounds..but his problem is one night he scores 20-27 points and the next he is like Vlad Rad.....he isn't consistent......I think Vlad/Mihm/Luke should leave...
Posted by: Drew | June 18, 2008 at 04:15 PM
frequent reader, infrequent poster.. i agree with BK on most of this. I'm more concerned with Pau's softness inside (and that the team seemed to have no heart for three quarters of do or die basketball... If Pau was more of a bruiser I think we'd have had the advantage. If Bynum was playing it would have been a completely different series.
Do you think its possible to trade like Pau and Radmonovich to the Clippers for a sign and trade of Elton Brand? A front line of Brand/Bynum/Odom seems more intimidating to me...
is it even a possibility?
Posted by: moustacheswild | June 18, 2008 at 04:19 PM
I am really surprised why at this point we are still talking about Kwame. Kwame????? come on. Between Kwame and Gasol, who will you take? Even a grade schooler can give you a sensible answer. Let's not waste our time and space deliberating on the merits on Kwame, as there is none. Definitely no regrets with Gasol. But having said that, he has to improve his muscles so he can defend well.
Posted by: KobeWatcher | June 18, 2008 at 04:20 PM
Aloha B.K
There isnt a point you made that I disagree with. I also believe a banger is in order and maybe an upgrade at the 3, if Lamar cant hit the outside J consistantly. But dont you also believe that at least one of our current 3's might need to be traded? If we bring in another 3(Posey is a free agent) our roster would really be out of balance with just to many small forwards. What do you think?
MH
Posted by: michael h | June 18, 2008 at 04:21 PM
Thoughts for 2008 & 2009-
2008 NBA Finals: Let's be honest-- we did overachieve reaching this point. We were riding on a high ever since Gasol got here, and that carried us all the way into the finals. AWESOME- but no home court and a super Celtic D knocked the sweet taste out of our mouth. GOOD- we needed to eat some crow. I honestly think this is good for us long term. Players now have to look at themselves and see where they need to improve if they want to be champions.
Which leads us to 2009 Needs:
1.) LO- Use this summer to refine your game. Primarily a.) You are moving to the 3 spot now- work on that J so you can keep the defense stretched. You've got a J- you just need to shoot it 100 times/day this offseason so you don't think about it when you shoot next year. You have shown the past 2 postseasons that you have heart-- refine the game and put the time in in the offseason-- stay FOCUSED.
2.) Gasol-- Hit the weight room. You may be moving to the 4, but there are plenty of 4's that can use their stregth as an advantage against you-- especially on the glass. Bynum/Odom will obviously be eating up boards now, but you still need to be a force on the glass. Seriously that's it-- just get STRONGER.
3.) Bynum- Keep working, Keep working.. MAKE SURE YOU ARE CONFIDENT MOVING ON THAT KNEE. We need you to be a physical post presence-- you have shown that you don't back down to anyone (even Shaq) but you need to feel good on that knee. Rehab/Rehab/Rehab. Learn the triangle O. Spend some time picking Tex Winters/Kobe's Brains. Most of all, just keep doing what you've been doing. If you come back strong from the injury you are our future and key to the title.
4.) Kobe-- IF you are REALLY focused on winning titles NOW, the best thing you could do is sign your extension and show your commitment to the team. I guarantee that would have a Huge Impact on taking away this sting to the rest of the guys-- Reward Mitch for the work he's done this year. Show some humility and loyalty to this team to help reverse what you did last off-season. Other than that- get your gold, have your surgery, and then REST. You have been rolling strong since last Summer's Olympics and you started to look tired in the finals--- the first time I've ever seen that from you. Age is probably starting to CREEP up on you just a little. Rest when possible.
5.) Farmar- Push to take over that starting PG job. Tell Phil you want it. You have great athletic ability and work ethic, and you are a warrior. Fish would be a great veteran option off the bench. Keep working on that J, and keep learning the triangle. Watch the finals tape over and over til you puke.
6. Luke- Rest your aching body. You've never been a quick/athletic player, but you used to have just enough when combined with your brain/willpower that you were effective. This year you were too slow that it didn't matter how smart you were and then you started pressing. Get healthy- work on conditioning and shooting.
7. Vlad- I wish we could lose him, If not, go see a shrink-- for real. Go to Michael Cooper's basketball camp and work on D.
8. Ariza- Work on the 3 ball, and try to get stronger. You have a great future on this team.
9. Turiaf- Need to learn how to finish around the rim- especially with defenders around. You look scared when you catch the ball in the post and chuck it back out to the 3 point line ever time. You at least need to be a threat to score down there. Your D is solid.
10. Vujacic- Watch Finals Tapes til you puke. You are a young (dorky) warrior. We could see the fire but you weren't ready to combine it with intelligent play in the finals. Gotta stop turning it over and taking dumb shots. Also, the refs are tired of your flopping/acting. Concentrate on just playing solid D.
11. PJ-- Great Job this year. Everyone who says otherwise F off. I know it would have been nice to win this series, but you know that this pain the team has now is going to spark the championship fire needed in much of our team. I beleive in you-- you are not a rah rah coach- that is not your thing. You develop compentent, savvy, Champions who don't need someone screaming at them to know what they need to do. Great 1st step this year-- we are ahead of schedule.
Posted by: Big Al | June 18, 2008 at 04:24 PM
PLEASE LAKER FANS CUT THIS WE WANT POSEY CRAP.
HE IS A GREEN WEENIE..ARE YOU GUYS KIDDING ME.
I DONT WANT POSEY..HE CAN SHOVE HIS MOUTHPIECE WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE.
SORRY.
POSEY POSEY?
HMM NO THANKS..AGAIN HE IS A CELT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED..WE DONT NEED THEIR STINKING GARBAGE ON OUR TEAM.
BYNUM IS THE ANSWER.....
Posted by: Lakers4Realz | June 18, 2008 at 04:26 PM
BK,
Why are you interested in keeping Odom? Do you not
believe that another rebounder can be found?
re: the team needs tweaks not sledgehammer. Did you see
the game *I* saw? We got out coached, out hustled &
out played! Lamar has been a Laker for 3 years. The
only time he has played well was after we got Gasol.
If you put Lamar at the SF position, he will be beaten by
all of the athletic SF's. He's TOO SLOW!!! He's too
inconsistent. He's too soft.
I am not suggesting wholesale slaughter of the team.
Many of them are young and blooming quite nicely.
I
We *NEED* a defense presence on this team if we're
going to have any chance of beating the Celtics for
the next 3 years. MJ had Pippen & Rodman. Shaq had
Kobe. Who does Kobe have as a defensive presence?
For what it's worth, I expect Sasha and Farmar to
work on their defensive games because they're
competitive enough. I don't believe that about Lamar.
I'm not worried about Gasol, because putting Bynum
at Center will allow Pau to go back to his natural
position PF. He won't be so physically dominated
there.
Posted by: hobbitmage | June 18, 2008 at 04:26 PM
STOP STOP everyone STOP making excuses for LAMAR the LAMAR experiment has FAILed. . . LAMAR that chant last night was for you. . . NA NA NA NA - NA NA NA NA - hey hey hey GOOD BYE!!
Posted by: RedHottLAFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Lets get Ron Artest!!
Hes the perfect 3 we need and he is defensive minded.
We should sign him.
Then I believe we should trade for Chris Wilcox.
Hes the perfect bruiser/rebounder that will fix our problems.
Here is a trade I propose:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/
traderesult?players=1016~2027~3029~1731&teams=
25~25~13~13&te=&cash=
-Or sign and trade vujacic with that deal maybe???
In general though, here is a list of players I wouldnt mind trading:
Vujacic (lets be honest, hes never going to have more trade value than he does right now..you have to give up something good to get something good in return)
**We would have to do a sign and trade.
Radmanovic: enough said
Walton
Turiaf
Mihm
Players to keep outside of starters:
Farmar
Ariza
What do you guys think???
Posted by: ryan | June 18, 2008 at 04:27 PM
I’m very surprised by people saying that they are ashamed to be Laker fans, after all they did this year it is a sad and down right disappointing to have people dismiss them the way so many fans seem to be doing. Let me ask, how many of you were ashamed when they had the best record in the west? How many of you were ashamed of them when they won the Western Conference Finals against the Spurs?
This is our team. They gave us a darn good season, a season that no one ever thought we would get but now after a great season we have fans that are ashamed of them? That’s just wrong. People lets keep this in perspective, this is the team that once had Smush Parker and Kwame Brown on it and now a season later we made it to the Finals! How can anyone fail to see what a great accomplishment that is?
This is my team. Yeah I’m sad they lost, in fact I’m heartbroken, it hurt to see them go down the way they did last night but they are still my team and I’m proud that they made it as far as they did. In the immortal words of Flea, “I bleed purple and gold”.
Posted by: Elle | June 18, 2008 at 04:31 PM
This season has been spectacular for the Lakers. Save that ugly ugly bittersweet, crushing defeat last night, the Lakers' future looks promising. How many of us can honestly say they saw the Lakers making it into the Finals?
Trade Pau? No way, we all seemed to forget what a huge difference Pau made when Andrew was injured. The Lakers couldn't have have been #1 in the West or in the finals without Pau.
Trade Lamar? I don't think so. Lamar is the X factor, he'll get it together, he's talented, versatile enough.
So many people are ready to blast the Lakers after this series, but they've all forgotten the journey, the amazing journey and development of the players this year. I'm confident that the players, all the players, will take this experience and learn and grow from it.
Nobody in the West was going to beat the Celtics this year. Not the Spurs, not the Suns, and definitely not the Hornets. We would have had a better chance with a healthy Bynum in our lineup, but even then, our defensive skills need tuning up.
Maybe a few tweaks in the roster here and there will be beneficial to the Lakers, but I'm damn proud of them this year. I enjoyed the journey, the ride. I mean, how fun was it to watch the Lakers destroy the Suns? After those two first round exits, the Lakers avenged themselves this regular season against the Suns. It was beautiful to watch. How fun was it to watch the Lakers battle their way up to the top of the West after suffering injuries after injuries?
the Lakers didn't win the ultimate prize, but it's been a great year. Lakers fans, be proud of your team and be excited, because next year, it's going to be another helluva ride.
Posted by: PeanutButterSpread | June 18, 2008 at 04:34 PM
It's not that Odom should be blamed for the Finals loss, it's that Odom (and his $14 million salary) ain't worth the inconsistencey!
Look, the guy has been in the NBA for NINE years and he's just learning to go to his off hand, or make a mid-range jump shot. So when it's Finals time (time for strength) he tries using his weak hand. Gimme a break!
Lamar is a wonderfully gifted athlete with the experience of a schoolboy. It's time to use that $14 mil more wisely.
Cheers.
Posted by: gman | June 18, 2008 at 04:34 PM
BK, I agree with most of what you said, but I think that he only reason the Lakers should keep Odom is to lure Artest from the Kings since they're friends. I do like Odom's rebounding and if they could keep him, they should but he's such a valuable trade commodity this year that it would be a mistake to keep him. He's made so many bone headed plays with the Lakers throughout the years and it was extremely frustrating to hear that he partied after game 5, if that is true. Otherwise, I agree with pretty much what you said. Also, I think the Celtics really mortgaged their future by signing three players making $20 mil. Although they'll still be awesome next year, even without resigning Posey and Tony Allen, their salary is $78 million and three years from now, their team will be Perkins, Baby Face, Rondo, Allen, and Posey. Another 20 years of failure.
Posted by: sclakerfan | June 18, 2008 at 04:38 PM
Odom = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | June 18, 2008 at 04:39 PM
Bynum does make aggressive defense easier. Think about it. He patrols the paint, the perimeter players can go wreak havoc. The defense can be much better with him because he frees up the need to protect the basket.
We can still use some tough minded vets, but we haven't seen the final form this team will take or can take.
Posted by: #4 | June 18, 2008 at 04:39 PM
Lakers need Shaq or someone who can control the paint in defense. Trade Gasol for Shaq. He has 2-4 years more left on his tank. Get Shaq and win Championship for 2009.
Posted by: Zebubibo | June 18, 2008 at 04:41 PM
The arms race has already begun based on the recent article on teams bidding for the services of one, Ron Artest.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9112
Lakers need a shut-down defender of Artest caliber if they're to shed its defensively soft image.
Posted by: Rollo Tomassi | June 18, 2008 at 04:42 PM
BK - your ridiculous write up of excuses and probabilities just FIRED ME UP more [your glass half full attitude sickens me on this topic]. . . 6 games of NO D, NO heart, and NO shows. The lakers didnt win 2/6 - the Cs lost 2/6. . . Worst BB play I have ever witnessed. . . I'm embarressed for the City of Angels. . . I'll get over this, but for now my line is LAMAR must GO!!
Posted by: RedHottLAFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:43 PM
http://upsettersound.blogspot.com/2008/06/dear-
lakers-fans.html
Posted by: jq | June 18, 2008 at 04:43 PM
All I have to sayand what I've been saying all along... Just bring on Artest and we will be fine... Odom for Artest swap is a no brainer, I would even throw in Vrad for one of their bad contarcts like Kenny THomas ( he sure is a willing banger than any one of the current front court Laker players.... I can go on and on about how much of an advatage Artest would be over Odom with AB getting back to the starting line-up, and please don't ever anyone on hear say anthing about trading Pau, yes he is soft but the guy is a great fit for this Lakers team..... There is a lot of of positives there for just one negative......
Posted by: Gino | June 18, 2008 at 04:44 PM
Was this season a success?
YES IT WAS
BE PROUD.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime
-LALPreview0708
Posted by: The Waterboy | June 18, 2008 at 04:48 PM
It's not that Odom should be blamed for the Finals loss, it's that Odom (and his $14 million salary) ain't worth the inconsistencey!
Look, the guy has been in the NBA for NINE years and he's just learning to go to his off hand, or make a mid-range jump shot. So when it's Finals time (time for strength) he tries using his weak hand. Gimme a break!
Lamar is a wonderfully gifted athlete with the experience of a schoolboy. It's time to use that $14 mil more wisely.
Cheers.
Posted by: gman | June 18, 2008 at 04:49 PM
People-- Piss off on the Lamar Hate... Did you forget how he warriored up in the Phoenix series last year after he was hurt all year? Throwing off his elbow brace and going in there and getting boards, throwing down and showing emotion?? Finally this year he was healthy-- his role on this team has always been confusing. When Pau came in he had a clear role and played GREAT. Did you all forget about our most impressive series-- the Utah Series?? LO was a beast- doubles doubles every night and hit a clutch 3. He is finally healthy, in tune with everything going on and I beleive he is going to touch up that jumper this offseason to become a solid 3. You talk about him not being able to guard other 3's-- well how about other 3's not being able to guard him. Playing with KB past few years is not easy-- KB didn't play in the flow of the offense until this year-- LO flourishes when he plays in a consistent system-- which is what Pau brought. PEOPLE-- CHILL THE F OUT! We just went to the finals! We won the West! We only had Pau for 20 games! Everyone got too high with how great things were, but the Celtics just dosed us with a little reality- We are young and WEREN'T READY TO BE CHAMPIONS-- NEXT YEAR WE WILL BE! With Lamar and with most our team as is.... The only guys I'm shaky on are Vlad R (actually just ship him out) and Turiaf (needs to finish around the rim).. The rest of the core is solid- CHILL OUT!
Posted by: Big Al | June 18, 2008 at 04:49 PM
Wow. Lot of angst out in the Laker community tonight.
Let me give you guys a brief rundown on my position here. I live in Australia. I've been a huge fan of the NBA (and basketball in general, obviously), since playing "Lakers vs. Celtics" on my PC at the tender age of six. My Laker love began way back then, playing off Magic, Kareem & James Worthy against the Green and White... and hasn't stopped since.
Given that I live in Australia, I've been downloading the games all season. That's right - I have every game this season downloaded. Win or lose. And I never, ever look at the results until I've watched the game.
I'm as heartbroken as the rest of us over this series - I really thought we had a good chance to win. And on paper, I still think we did - we were simply outplayed, outhustled, outdefended, through the entire series. Boston completely disrupted the Lakers offensive rhythm, and never allowed us to maintain any form of momentum (right, Phil?), even in the wins.
I agree entirely with BK's comments up the top. I think next year, we stand a much better chance of winning it all, and here's why.
CENTER - A HEALTHY BYNUM
Obviously, the guy was going off earlier this year. Even if you just look at the number of dead simple plays (let's lob the ball over the D and watch Drew hammer it down) that he created through his sheer size and athletic ability, you're looking at a player whose upside is massive. All the complaints about softness on the inside can be obliterated right there. Drew has the size and strength to match up with anybody in this league. ANYBODY. His shot-blocking ability is underrated, his rebounding is excellent, and he has certainly grown into the kind of defender and offensive presence that is absolutely perfect for the triangle offense - not to mention a luxury that Phil's teams have almost always lacked (Shaq excepted).
POWER FORWARD -
The addition of Bynum into the lineup will allow Pau Gasol to play the position he prefers (and as someone people continually refer to as "soft", he'll fit better at PF than C, I'd imagine), while shifting LO down to the 3 spot.
SMALL FORWARD -
I agree with the comments on issues at the 3. Paul Pierce carved us up all series, with the exception of that one (VERY) quiet game, which can be put down to some excellent D and an off-night for the man himself. Radmanovic was never going to get that defensive assignment sorted, he's simply not up to the task (though his defense is, I think, underrated, he's not fast enough laterally or smart enough in terms of using his body to defend a player like Pierce). The addition of Bynum at Center moves LO down to the 3. There have been some questions raised over the viability of this move, but I think it's going to be a real plus for this team.
Does LO have the quickness to guard the league's elite small forwards? I'd have to say yes. Look at the way the guy runs the floor on the break - it was mentioned several times during the series, he's one of the few players in the league who can grab a rebound, run the floor, and finish. He has lateral quickness to match, BUT, as we've seen during the finals series, needs to work somewhat on his defensive decision-making.
As a team-wide criticism, we need to take a serious rethink over our defensive commitment. Far too often we looked for blocks where a simple 'stand-your-ground' drawn charge would have been more effective. This led on many occasions to foul trouble for LO (and others), and allowed Boston to operate in the lane far too easily. Many of the fouls led to bail-outs, three-point plays, and foul trouble for the Lakers.
Regardless, LO at the 3 is an improvement over anyone else the team has to offer. With Ariza back to full strength, the team has an excellent defensive backup for LO (and let's face it, LO sometimes disappears completely on offense, so Ariza's lack of offensive ability at times (though he is an excellent slasher) will be a non-issue), the team looks far stronger at this position either way.
SHOOTING GUARD -
Kobe clearly had a down series. He was played almost to perfection by the Boston defense, whose single greatest achievement was that they never allowed Bryant anything easy. Bryant is the kind of player who fits perfectly into the description of "give them an inch, and they'll take a mile". Being utterly ruthless is one of Kobe's greatest assets, but Boston never allowed him the space to really dig in, with the exception of game 3, where I thought Kobe was particularly focused, and the Boston D was a little tentative.
Unless you plan on bringing certain players out of retirement, there's no way you can improve on this position. Kobe had an MVP season (as he has many times in the past, I might add), and had the team played better as a whole, I think Kobe's performance would also have been better during the series. I think that the team's inability to perform on a number of levels gave Kobe less room to operate and do his thing. Look for this to change next year also. Bynum's return is really going to be the crux here too. This is a guy you simply can't leave alone in the paint - and will draw plenty of double-teams, freeing up Kobe for open looks... which leads us to...
POINT GUARD -
D-Fish had an amazing playoffs. From Denver to Utah to San Antonio, the guy played some amazing basketball... until Boston showed up. He then disappeared almost entirely on offense, played patchy defense, and failed to hold his own against a PG who is extremely limited in a number of areas (sorry, Rondo, you won't ever be an elite PG until you can shoot a jumper with more accuracy than Jason Kidd). A disappointing series from Fisher, but at the same time, I think we must credit many of his struggles to the Boston defense. They simply outplayed the Lakers at every position.
Yes.
Every position. Sorry, Kobe.
So... while yes, this was a rough defeat, as BK has said repeatedly, there's a lot to look forward to. Really, in the finals series, nothing clicked the way you'd hope for. Next year will be an entirely different proposition.
Oh, and Lakers? Do me a favour.
Learn some pick and roll D.
Thanks.
- Ben
Posted by: Benjamin | June 18, 2008 at 04:52 PM
BK - WHAT GAME / FINALs HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING. . . WHAT PLANET DO YOU WRITE FROM. . . THIS TEAM NEEDs TO MOVE PLAYERS AND ODOM IS NUMERO UNO. . . DONT YOU GET IT? 4 FRIGGIN YEARS. LETS ALL STOP w/ THE EXCUSES, HAVE SOME STONES AND HELP DR BUSS w/ THIS EASY CALL. . . NA NA NA NA - NA NA NA NA - HEY HEY HEY ODOM BYE!!
Posted by: RedHottLAFan | June 18, 2008 at 04:54 PM
It amazes me how so many are willing to apologize and apologize for Odom.
He needs to go.
The Odom experiment is over; as was the Kwame Brown experiment.
PRAY ARTEST OPTS OUT AND COMES TO THE LAKERS....................PROBLEM SOLVED.
Posted by: Ben | June 18, 2008 at 03:51 PM
Nice point Ben!
DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE!
Kobe said it during game 6's post game. We need a legitiment three man to put pressure on someone like Paul Pierce. Granted that Lamar Odom is a versatile player, we need to get ugly on defense. Sort of like how Boston got ugly on us.
As far as the season goes in a whole, I was very impressed with how the Lakers did this year. I under-estimated Boston's capabilities on the Defensive side, but I blame more the bench of the L.A. Lakers.
Boston's plan was to contain Kobe as a whole. If you noticed how the team tightened up the middle whenever Kobe looked to drive the ball. This is where our bench failed because they couldn't hit the shots. Also, our defense was horrible to say it nicely.
But the Lakers are young and I see this team winning some championships as early as next year and putting a string of them together. This experience was actually a positive experience for the younger players on the Lakers.
Who would I like to see go!
Chris Mihm, DJ Mbenga, and Newble.
Who the Lakers could use for trade bait!
Lamar Odom and Luke Walton
Who the Lakers need to keep now and in the future!
Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Fisher, Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf, Ariza.
Who I like to see the Lakers get in the off-season!
Ron Artest (Defense and Perimeter shooting)
Benoit Benjamin (Just Kidding)
Shawn Marion (Would Miami take Odom back???)
Lottery Draft Pick (Trade Lamar/Walton of course)
Go Lakers 2009
Posted by: Ron | June 18, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Here's what I saw....
Ala Sponge Bob Square Pants Style, we got booted from the Toughest Bar in Bikini Bottom and told to go to the "Super Weenie Hut Jr." across the street.
oh well.....more time to spend with my kids now....
janaya
Posted by: janaya | June 18, 2008 at 04:56 PM
Just a thought on the Artest for Lamar trade chatter. Dont you think that the Kings, a team re-building for the future is looking more for drafts picks and prospects?
MH
Posted by: michael h | June 18, 2008 at 04:59 PM
hobbitmage, sclakerfan-
It's not that Lamar is irreplaceable, but it's harder than you think. Remember, at this point, we're talking about someone who would be a third or fourth option in the offense. No team's 3/4 guy is an every night star (or he'd be a 1/2) He wouldn't be expected to pour in 20 a night, nor would they need him to. Meanwhile, he's the consummate company guy. He'll crash the glass, distribute the ball, try to play D, etc. Is he perfect? No, but getting someone with his skill who will also be content with that role isn't so easy. Shawn Marion, for example, chafed in Phoenix because he thought he was overshadowed. You think he'll like it better here? My point is it's a trickier proposition to replace him than people might think. Instead of focusing on everything you don't like about him, think about the things he brings.
If Odom goes, in a lot of ways I think the Lakers would be better off replacing him with a set of role players, rather than one "star." As for his salary, down the road I agree if he costs 13 mil a season, it's not worth it. But I don't think it will. 7-8 a season for 4 or so years could probably get it done. He likes it hear, he wants to stay. He wants to play in the system.
There could indeed be trouble integrating him with Pau and Bynum, but the flip side is if it does work, if the Lakers can come up with the right combinations and plays (adn if Odom can solidify that jumper) the Lakers would have something almost unheard of in the history of the NBA in terms of three players with the sorts of ball skills with that length on one frontline. Like I wrote earlier (and will continue to write this summer), I'd like to see if it works before assuming it won't.
Lamar shouldn't be immune to criticism, but he shouldn't become the point man for the team's collective failure in the Finals. Who stepped up and played well throughout? Again, consider the things he did well, and the role he played in getting them there in the first place.
The Lakers should look to improve (on paper, at least Ron Artest would be a good fit-- except he's a little crazy, if you didn't get the memo), but not overreact to being the 2nd best team in the NBA this year instead of the 1st. It's a lot easier to screw it up than it is to get over the hump.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | June 18, 2008 at 05:00 PM
I think the most important questions on next season are on Larmar. I have three:
Can Lamar guard strong small farwards like Lebron James, Paul Pierce and Rashard Lewis? Since no Lakers player, even Kobe, could guard Pierce in the finals.
Can Lamar post up on either Pierce or James since he has quite bit height advantage?
Can Larmar improve his out-side shooting to draw his defenders away from the basket?
If yes, Lakers will need very little change. If no, then they really need someone like Ron Artest or Shawn Marion.
Posted by: nicksi | June 18, 2008 at 05:01 PM
How do we maintain our Western Conference supremacy? There are threats next year. The hornets and Utah will still be viable. The Spurs may regroup, although without an influx of talent, they might go through a down year.
But what does scare me is the prospect of teams with big men to challenge our height/skill advantage. Portland is an unknown commodity, but they certainly give us lots of trouble. Houston has proven players, though their perimeter leave much to be desired. Still they have Yao, McGrady, and Scola. If they win the Artest sweepstakes, they are just as much contenders on paper as we are.
Though I am a fan of letting our current roster "bake" for another year, its imperative to make a deal if we can get one that'll benefit our team, especially defensively.
Posted by: #4 | June 18, 2008 at 05:09 PM