The foul retroactively heard 'round the world
Update: More on this issue from David Neiman of SportsHubLA.com.
In lieu of a formal breakdown of things to watch for tonight, since nothing particularly new has emerged worthy of analysis, I decided to share a few thoughts on the NBA's admission that they bricked the Fisher/Barry no-call. Their announcement has sparked debate everywhere from the radio talk shows to this here blog. How much weight should the mistake carry, since the sequence itself was set up in very large part because a shot by Fisher that grazed the rim was incorrectly ruled an air ball. Does the incorrect decision by the refs somehow "asterisk" or "taint" the series, much less a title if the Lakers manage to go the distance? To toss out the ol' cliche, what does it all mean?
In a nutshell, a whole bunch of nothing.
Like I said at the time of the play, I think the league's review arrived at the proper conclusion. If you remove the amount of seconds remaining, any rooting interests you might have, what fouls had or hadn't been called during the other 47 minutes and simply judged the actions in a vacuum, Fisher clearly fouled Barry. Not even debatable. There's way too much contact for it to be considered "legal." It's a foul and should have called as such. Any notion put forth by Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley or whomever that Barry didn't "sell it enough" is ridiculous (and more than a little ironic, given the league's accompanying announcement that flopping will soon be subject to fine). If it's actually a foul (which everyone seems to be conceding), a player shouldn't be required to channel his inner-DeNiro simply because two seconds and change remain.
I also don't think this fell into the category of "good no-call, because we want the players, not the refs to decide the game." I do agree with that concept, but only to a point. If you're talking about a jumper released with some light contact on the wrist, fine. A missed layup off a drive absorbing some degree of contact, no worries. Basically, your run of the mill foul that often goes uncalled over the course of a game. I'd also rather see guys play through such stuff. But we're talking about Fisher going up in the air, then landing against Barry's shoulders while turned sideways. That gets called about 99.5 out of 100 times and had the refs rightfully blown the whistle, they wouldn't have been "deciding the game." Fish would have been deciding it, because he committed the obvious foul. Final possession or not, the players still need to be held accountable on some level. Otherwise, it's a free for all.
Mind you, I'm EXTREMELY happy the foul wasn't called. Thrilled. I can more than live with the end result. But that doesn't mean I've strapped on a set of size XL blinders. The Lakers got away with one.
So does the foul going uncalled somehow dillute the Game 4 win or anything that follows for the Lakers? Absolutely not. For starters, like I already mentioned, the play was set up by a mistake in San Antonio's favor. The Spurs had also gotten more than their share of calls leading up to that point, considerably more so than the Lakers, who saw Kobe Bryant put up 29 attempts without a single trip to the line. Referee mistakes are also part of sports. They happen every year during every postseason. A Swiss watch is less reliable by comparison. And beyond that, the Lakers thoroughly outplayed the Spurs on Tuesday, and by a long shot. Even my girlfriend (a big Spurs fan) conceded this fact. If you want to argue that San Antonio got hosed at the end (and frankly, they did), fine. But you can't possibly tell me the better team (that night, if nothing else) didn't win the game. If the Spurs had been ahead the entire game, then the Lakers ended up squeaking out a win due to a one-minute rally and a bad call, that's a different story. But when taking the game as a whole, then factoring in the circumstance leading up to the final play, the Spurs may have experienced some bad luck, but it was equally lucky that they were even able to experience it. I imagine most people watching the game figured the Lakers would win. That's what happened. So it's hard to view the outcome as truly "controversial."
Besides, any Spurs fan who truly believes the Lakers "stole" their trip to the Finals with a win tonight (the outcome I'm predicting), six words for ya: "Nash's Bloody nose. Horry's hip check." I still maintain that if the former (bad luck) didn't happen in Game 1 and the latter (a dumb rule blindly enforced) in Game 4, Phoenix would have been defending a title this season. Every team gets a little lucky en route to a championship. Every team gets a little unlucky when they come up short. In the end, the team with the best ratio of great play and good fortune kisses the O'Brien.
AK
Agreed.
Posted by: the other Tom | May 29, 2008 at 02:48 PM
" If it's actually a foul (which everyone seems to be conceding), a player shouldn't be required to channel his inner-DeNiro " - AK
CTFU !!!!!!
Posted by: complex_brotha | May 29, 2008 at 02:51 PM
Travel, hit the rim - Laker ball, no goal tend on LO. Ok now call the foul...
Posted by: Charles | May 29, 2008 at 02:51 PM
More Proof of a conspiracy....Its all in the pudding.I will be calling upon my good senator friend from the state of Texas to have the U.S. congress invest age this to the fullest.Remeber this Laker fans "Alamo" yeehaw gote roppers stand proud..
Derek Fisher, Kobe Bryant and Gregg Popovich all agreed that Fisher didn’t foul Brent Barry. They’re also all wrong. Fisher landed on Barry’s shoulder, and that was revealing for more than one reason.
Somehow Fisher has gone from Los Angeles to Golden State to Utah back to Los Angeles, and he’s still standing in the San Antonio Spurs’ way?....I dare any man on this blog to deny this egregious charade launched against my beloved Spurs
Joey Crawford naturally played a role in this story, too. When Fisher went up and Barry stayed down, the one ref staring directly at the play was the same ref who didn’t work last year’s playoffs because he ejected Tim Duncan for laughing. This time Crawford stayed silent, and this time the Spurs weren’t laughing. At least one Spur privately saw this as yet another chapter in the NBA’s Crawford Conspiracy.I will be helping this man in getting the congress to lead a special investigation.
Posted by: Spur Warrior | May 29, 2008 at 05:45 AM
Posted by: Spur Warrior | May 29, 2008 at 02:51 PM
The Lakers have to win one more, and that will be very difficult to do. The spurs will not give up easily.
Posted by: BUTLER | May 29, 2008 at 02:51 PM
AK man,
You couldn't clear it up any better. Now everyone can we put a sock in it and look ahead of tonight game. This will never end.
Mamba from the east coast
Posted by: Mamba24Fan4Life | May 29, 2008 at 02:51 PM
AK,
"Every team gets a little lucky en route to a championship. Every team gets a little unlucky when they come up short. In the end, the team with best ratio of great play and good fortune kisses the O'Brien. And everyone else can kiss their ass."
Whoo! Tell it like it is!
I can see your point that it should've been a foul, and on any other play in the game I believe it would've been called as such, but there's no way that that action was going to decide the game. I think the refs knew they screwed up the Fish "airball" and LO's "goaltend" so they evened it out.
-bozz-
Posted by: bozz | May 29, 2008 at 02:53 PM
Tomorrows Headline
THE EXORCISM OF KOBE BRYANT
Last nights victory over the defending champions San Antonio Spurs in the NBA Western Conference Finals marked the end of a long battle of Kobe Bryant and his demons.
These demons were no ordinary demons either; they were internal as well as external demons whose sole purpose was to shatter his will, confidence, and faith. Throughout this war, Kobe's overcome personal attacks on his character that no other athlete in the history of sports has had to endure.
The demonization began with the storied feud with Shaquille Oneal, reached its highest level with the Colorado rape accusation, and continued through the years by members of the media who perpetuated the "Kobe Hate" for their own benefit.
This type of persecution would have destroyed an ordinary person, in fact, Kobe nearly succumbed to its evils this past summer when he alienated his most loyal supporters, that being Laker ownership and fans. His announcement that he no longer wanted to be a Laker created such a sense of betrayal it seemed Kobe's vilification was now complete and everlasting. There would be no redemption for this trespass.
But then, the most improbable happened. In what many believe to be divine intervention, events occurred that would forever change the course of Kobe Bryant's life.
1. Laker teammates worked on their game with Kobe-like commitment and showed marked improvement.
2. Laker management and Kobe could not work out a trade with the Chicago Bulls.
3. Lakers trade Cook and Evans for Trevor Ariza.
4. Andrew Bynum's meteoric rise.
5. Andrew Bynum's injury
6. The "Steal of a Deal" for Pau Gasol.
7. Media critics scrambling to find faults, with most giving up and reversing their position on Kobe.
8. Western Conference #1 seed.
9. MVP
10. Western Conference Champions.
In many ways this year, Kobe has been exonerated for the countless condemnations hurled at him. Shaq's is now just a shell of his former self. Kwame, Smush, and Cook have been exposed (could King James even take that team to the playoffs?). The list goes on.
There will still be a biased media (it sells newspapers), but most fans will be able to discern those critics for what they really are.
Win or lose in this years NBA Finals, Kobe's legacy has been restored. All pretenders to the throne beware....
THE DEMONS HAVE BEEN EXORCIZED
Mike P.
Posted by: YOU EVER NOTICE | May 29, 2008 at 02:53 PM
This report proves the Lakers won on a conspiracy.
Yahoo! News
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AP
NBA: Foul should have been called at end of Game 4
Thu May 29, 3:32 AM ET
NEW YORK - The NBA acknowledged Wednesday that a foul should have been called on the final possession of Game 4 in the Western Conference finals, which would have given the San Antonio Spurs a chance to even the series.
ADVERTISEMENT
Trailing 93-91 on Tuesday night, the Spurs inbounded the ball with 2.1 seconds left to Brent Barry, who was bumped by Los Angeles Lakers guard Derek Fisher on the floor. No foul was called, and Barry missed badly on a 3-pointer before time expired.
Spurs players and coach Gregg Popovich said a foul should not have been called, but the NBA disagreed with them after reviewing the play.
"With the benefit of instant replay, it appears a foul should have been called," NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.
Had that happened, Barry would have gone to the line for two free throws and a chance to tie the game. Instead, the defending champion Spurs trail the series 3-1 and face elimination Thursday in Los Ange
Posted by: Spur Warrior | May 29, 2008 at 05:18 AM
Posted by: Spur Warrior | May 29, 2008 at 02:54 PM
Given the bad call on Fisher's shot on the previous series, the no-call on Fisher's foul seems poetically just.
Posted by: Chris | May 29, 2008 at 02:54 PM
Isn't it odd that for the most part this whole hoopla was a none entity?
But the league releases some words...and it's the biggest thing since slice bread?
Still we have to tune out all this negativity and move on. Let us win tonight.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Faith | May 29, 2008 at 02:55 PM
AK
Sorry dude, but it is debatable.
A bump for sure. But like many bumps in the games, many are not called. If they did, they'd be living at the free throw line.
Your 99% claim is bogus.
Earlier in this game Bowen knocked Kobe back, almost out of bounds and almost to the ground. Yet, a no call.
Fisher was knocked to the ground on a break, and yet a 'No Call'.
Let's see, Spurs coach feels it was just a bump and shouldn't have been called. Same with PJ. Same with Berry. Same with Duncan.
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how stupid it is. Just like my stupid opinions.
But hey, its your blog, your party, you can cry if you want to.
Posted by: AN 1 | May 29, 2008 at 02:55 PM
Given the bad call on Fisher's shot the previous series, the no-call on Fisher's foul seems poetically just.
Posted by: | May 29, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Dude. The ultimate impartial treatise on the subject by a completely partial citizen. Case closed, and I couldn't have said it any better myself.
I do wonder though, the more I think about it. The reason for the NBA's clarification: Lunacy and the reopening of a closed issue leading to the opposite of the intended affact, or stoking the fires and generating added buzz for the playoffs?
Hopefully it's not option 3, the grand consipracy to extend the Spurs dynasty by setting up favorable officiating conditions for a road game upset tonight.
Oh. Did that sound ridiculous?
Posted by: Jesterguru | May 29, 2008 at 02:59 PM
10 count on Duncan. Don't forget, Laker Family.
Posted by: htj | May 29, 2008 at 03:00 PM
My question is when was the last time the League made a statement about a non-call like this? kinda weird.
Posted by: Lakers Legacy | May 29, 2008 at 03:04 PM
AK
Thanks for this post. It says it all.
GO LAKERS!!
Posted by: Happy Camper | May 29, 2008 at 03:05 PM
10 count on Duncan. Don't forget, Laker Family.
Posted by: htj | May 29, 2008 at 03:00 PM
And don't forget there is a 2 step limit without dribbling. How's that for a conspiracy?
Libertad!!!!
Posted by: Charles | May 29, 2008 at 03:05 PM
Mike P. - Yours is one of the best posts this year! It documents the most important aspects of the chronology; it's comprehensive, insightful, accurate, and most importantly, it tells the story behind the story.
You really nailed "The Exorcism of Kobe Bryant."
Posted by: Chris | May 29, 2008 at 03:09 PM
Did the league also comment on Kobe shooting 29 shots WITH NO FREE THROWS? That hadn't happened in 4 years!!! The officiating sucks. At least in the Lakers/Spurs game they were simply letting them play - and that's what they did on the last play. The league should have kept their mouth shut instead of putting the whole episode back in play. There are lots of plays where there seems to be contact - with no foul called.
Posted by: PurplePhil | May 29, 2008 at 03:11 PM
Rubbish!
Barry clearly pushed off his non-pivot foot in trying to get around Fisher. Barry traveled. Look at the video.
Posted by: giantsquid | May 29, 2008 at 03:12 PM
AK: I agree with you and well said.
But I find the whole thing funny because PJ gets his digs on Pop for the Spurs 1999 Championship by saying it should have an * for the strike-shortened season.
I guess now Pop can do the same back at PJ assuming we take home the O'Brien trophy. Whatever, it's all good as long as the Lakers win 5 more.
And it will just deepen the Spurs/Lakers playoff rivalry for a few more years. Maybe it will rank up there with the Pistons/Celtics rivalries someday.
It's our team, it's our year! - MVP
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: PsychedLakerGirl | May 29, 2008 at 03:14 PM
It's funny how, when your team is the one getting the call, there's no conspiracy. But when you're on the other side, the NBA is fixed. When will people accept the reality of losing? Just because you lost, doesn't mean it's fixed in the other team's favor. Referees are human and have to make judgment calls.
They made a judgment call in the heat of a game, and they made a mistake according to the majority of media members and fans. You can't replay every missed call, and you can't get every call right.
Why won't people give up with the conspiracy theories and all of that nonsense and just accept the reality of losses in sports? Requiring an explanation beyond the performance of the team and shifting the blame away from that performance is simply a cop out. It reflects the nature of out society these days. No one ever wants to be held accountable for a mistake or poor performance. Always passing it along to a fellow employee or peer.
You lost. Accept it. If the Lakers lose, I accept it.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | May 29, 2008 at 03:14 PM
Anyone else in the Valley up for a veiwing party tonight
Charles, just called you, I think a veiwing party would be cool if we could manage one. Looks like John K wants to go to Springbok in the Valley, I can talk to Lakerman420 about going, if he is up for it we will be there if not im just gonna watch it at his house. Give me a call.
Posted by: Simi Laker Girl | May 29, 2008 at 03:15 PM
My question is when was the last time the League made a statement about a non-call like this? kinda weird.
Posted by: Lakers Legacy | May 29, 2008 at 03:04 PM
Excellent point brotha from anotha. Goes to show that Tim Donaghy is just an entry level employee in the Vegas Strip Casino : Stern's...
Didn't the ESPN headline emit a pungent scent? My processor isn't even a Dou Core. Why not blog it on myspace? Why not announce it before the game. Great fodder though right?
Oh the inner Perez Hilton does come out when the funk hits the fan...
Posted by: Charles | May 29, 2008 at 03:16 PM
Barry traveled before the contact was made trying to dribble away from it. He moved his left foot, then right foot, both before putting the ball on the floor and also before Fisher came down into his shoulders. Just another blown call in that sequence.
The fact that the league decided to comment on only the last of the 3 blown calls that all happened within a 6 second span is incredibly perplexing, but then again, when it comes to NBA officiating, what isn't?
Posted by: WWJWWD | May 29, 2008 at 03:18 PM
THE NBA TODAY…BLOG VERSION
Props to the Kambros for the great interviews. I have to give credit to AK & BK ‘cause whenever there is a really good question asked of a player, it’s a Kambrother at the other end of the “mike.” It’s not coincidental also that the Lakers players seem to be heads-and-tails smarter and more articulate than their counterparts on other teams. Even Vlade’s interview was filled with intelligent observations and comments. No Josh Howard’s on this team, just a bunch of excited and motivated players displaying Team-Think-Sync.
Wanted to bring up a point I made earlier about the Kobe Clones, players who mimic Kobes’ work ethic, competitive spirit, will to win, and mental toughness by making plays that only Kobe used to make. A prime example in Tuesday’s game was the two great plays Luke Walton made at the end of the first half, muscle posting up Manu right after being screamed at in the heat of the game by Kobe earlier. Another example was the great pass off penetration that Jordan Farmar made to Sasha for the great 3-pointer-and-one he swished near the end of the third quarter for a huge 4-point play. Again, key plays fueling the Lakers lead at the end of periods made by the Kobe Clones.
Good to see Phil respond to the NBA’s stupid press release stating Brent Barry should have been awarded two foul shots after the bump by Derek Fisher. Fortunately, most of the press by now understands that the Spurs shouldn’t have gotten a last chance to score because of the refs calling Fisher’s earlier shot that grazed the rim an airball in error. Strangely, I still don’t see anybody else commenting on the obvious travel by Barry. Everybody seems to agree that it was unfair for the league to not also comment on that play if they use their belated “instant replay” to comment on the Barry play.
Further lunacy from the NBA in their announcement that games will be reviewed after the fact and players who flopped will be fined. What the hell has Stern and company been smoking? With moves like this, the public may think that there are more in the NBA with a pot problem than just the players. LOL. This is as stupid as reviewing the games for flagrant fouls. The idea only works when you have competent and unbiased people reviewing the game films, which the NBA has clearly proven that they don’t.
I loved the Mark Heisler article about the Lakers current “nice little team.” Whether the Lakers win the championship this year (of which, I am 100% confident) or not, there are going to be a bandwagon of stories about how this current Lakers team is really just the tip of the dynastic iceberg that the NBA will face next year. As Heisler stated: “In the really good news for the Lakers, they're just warming up. With a healthy Andrew Bynum, as the Express-News' Harvey said last week, ‘the Lakers who are in San Antonio today will be remembered as a nice little team.’”
It looks as if we won’t have Doug Collins to hate as a TV announcer anymore. The Bulls are apparently ready to pull a Lakers move and bring back former coach Doug Collins, the guy who couldn’t win with MJ and Scotty and who was replaced by Phil Jackson. It will interesting to see how Collins does in his second stint. He’s a pretty savvy guy in my opinion and I wish him luck. I always thought he handled the fact that he couldn’t do what Phil did with the same team well. Secretly, I am sure he hates Phil Jackson. LOL.
I have recently become a fan of Dan Patrick. His humor is probably what guys like TJ Simers are shooting for but fail famously at. Anyway, Dan had Mychal Thompson on the show and Mychal was hilarious. He had great praise for Pau and Lamar how geeked up they were for the game. Mychal thought Tuesday night was the most aggressive and motivated he has ever seen Pau and told him so. Mychal’s prediction of the Lakers in 5 looks solid and he signed off by telling Dan Patrick he would call him from Boston.
I am picking the Lakers to close out the Spurs with a blowout tonight as the team comes out and destroys the Spurs and leave them no traces of hope for an upset and comeback. Lakers will go 3-0 in playoff close-out games and win Western Conference Title tonight. Although we don’t really count these lesser titles, the time off will give the Lakers a good opportunity to prepare to steal one or both of the first two NBA Finals games in Boston. With 3 straight games in LA after the opening 2 in Boston, the Lakers will put the Celtics down in 4 or 5 games, depending on how the refs call the games in Beantown.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | May 29, 2008 at 03:19 PM
Are we still talkin' bout this?
IT'S ALREADY DONE1
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | May 29, 2008 at 03:23 PM
The officiating as a whole favored the Spurs, and I've read many of the Spurs fans acknowledge that fact on sports blogs, yet they still cry about ONE CALL. It's absolutely ridiculous. Just because a wrong call is made at the end of the game, doesn't make it more important than any other call. The whole night, the Spurs were getting special treatment from the officials. Why isn't the controversy from the media centered around all those calls the Lakers got ripped on throughout the game, and not on one last call. One call, even at the end of the game doesn't matter more than the multiple calls the Spurs benefited from. Yes, the Fisher foul was obvious, but even more so was the Duncan travel, where he seemingly walked through all of Texas. And you know what, why doesn't the league do the following: they can take four points (because of the Duncan travel, and the erronously called goaltend on Odom) away from the Spurs, and then give Barry his two precious foul shots. And you know what? Even if Barry makes both, the Spurs still lose by four. I really hope Spurs fans stop whining once and for all. I hate the fact that now people are going to say that the Lakers playoff accomplishments from now on are tainted. That is a bunch of BS. This might sound ridiculous, but I really wish they give Barry his damn free throws, and play the overtime, so the Lakers can destroy the Spurs then and Spurs fans shut the f*** up.
Posted by: laker hopeful | May 29, 2008 at 03:26 PM
It's so weird how society, on the whole, believes so much that we're lied to/taken advantage of/manipulated. By everyone from the government to big business to religion to professional sports. I'm not saying it's a new phenomenon but it just struck me since today's sports talk is dominated by the non-call and political talk is all about Scott McLellan's book.
Posted by: lakers_sth | May 29, 2008 at 03:27 PM
This is pretty much what it boils down to right?
In the end, the team with best ratio of great play and good fortune kisses the O'Brien. And everyone else can kiss their ass.
Spuck the Furs. In a matter of hours they can
kiss OUR asses....
Posted by: magicman | May 29, 2008 at 03:28 PM
Everyone knows that the refs made a much bigger mistake on the previous play. The problem is that 3 years from now, people won't remember that duncan took 4 steps, or that kobe got hacked all night without a call, or that the spurs never should have even had the ball. They will only remember the leagues' official stance, and that's wrong.
The lakers should get an official report stating that there was a blown shot clock violation
Posted by: Jeremy R | May 29, 2008 at 03:31 PM
Enough about this absurd distraction created by the League office. Gregg Popovich agreed with the "no call." Brent Barry agreed with the "no call." That makes it "no harm, no foul," pure and simple.
I sure hope the Lakers aren't losing focus. Game 4 is history. Game 5 is the opportunity to make history with a victory that will send the Spurs on summer vacation, fishing alongside Kenny Smith. Nothing else matters right now.
Only the NBA would have the foolishness to squelch the over-riding story arc of the 2007-2008 NBA season and post-season. Last summer, few predicted the Lakers to even land a playoff spot; and now... How do David Stern and Stu Jackson keep their jobs?
Hopefully, if Phil Jackson is even allowing the "no call" into the team's psychology tonight, best case would be to use it as the clarion call for a convincing, dominating trouncing over the Spurs for the entire 48 minutes. It's doubtful the Spurs would allow this. They have every reason to avenge the outcome of Game 4. But if the Lakers can achieve a convincing victory tonight, it will likely end the "no call" controversy with everyone but the most rabid Spurs fan.
Time to focus on the game at hand. Prove to all the world that the Lakers are deserving Western Conference Champions. This is our team. This is our year. Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | May 29, 2008 at 03:33 PM
AK - tell it like it is, bro!!!!
JonK - you had better be at your seat at that bar in a couple of hours!
Edwin - drink that Kahlua, my man - and make sure you've got that stick of deodorant handy just in case!
complex - get thee to thy cave!
T minus 2 1/2 hours & counting - I can't wait!!!!
Tonight is the last hurdle of the WC Finals. Tomorrow we take a look at the new race.
STAY THE COURSE!
NEVER SURRENDER!
SPUCK THE FURS!
ALREADY DONE!
5 to O'Brien..........
Posted by: | May 29, 2008 at 03:38 PM
it all leads to NBA's fault
1. they're not fare with kb24 and the lakers
2. lot of miscalls against la (most of the calls goes for sa)
3. joe crawford should not be officiating for any spurs game/s. there's already some history that for sure will open up questions/ideas/thingking if what just recently happen' happened.
4. it doesn't look like an NBA playoffs anymore. a lot of ticky-tak foul. 1 instance is calling a foul on a spur even before the contact' but on the other side, holding/grabbing/hitting and there's no foul, that is ridiculuous.
for sure, only the team with the poise and perseverance will prevail.
for all that have been said and done.
i luv this game, go LAkers. -peace out! c yah in the FINALS...... :)
Posted by: muymoy | May 29, 2008 at 03:38 PM
Word.
But really. This issue is moronic.
Looking at that last play as defining anything for anyone is like looking at the last gallon of water that sank the Titanic. The Spurs lost it on the boards and in their legs. Kudos to them for taking it like champs and they were the ones who lost out on it the most. Everyone else just needs something to talk about.
Let's put this to rest like the Lakers will do to this Western Conference Final.
Posted by: jq | May 29, 2008 at 03:38 PM
Hello everyone! I know I have been posting here since the lakers and spurs have started this series and i would like to add my two cents to this whole topic. EVERY SPURS FAN WHO IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS "FOUL" NEEDS TO SHUT THE F*** UP!! I am a HUGE spurs fan and i am HAPPy that foul was not called. We as a team messed up the game from the beginning. IT WAS NOT THAT ONE SHOT THAT MADE US LOSE THAT GAME. We did not pull it together so we faced the consequnces. I wish this whole thing would just be dropped. Game 5 is tonite and i am very excited to root for my team. Though i know the reality of this situation (the series) is that we are in the deep hole. The lakers will probably take it tonite but I will stand by my team through thick and thin. You lakers fans have NO idea what BS i have been hearing around my city of San Antonio the past 48 hours. The radio sations are the worst here, people calling in saying that last call was not fair. UGH!! Stupid people piss me off! i want to apologize to you lakers fans for alot of stupidity that lives in my beloved city. Your team worked thier tails off and you guys derserve to be where you are at right now. So with that said, LET GAME 5 BEGIN!! i love my team and i can't wait to watch tonite's game.
GO SPURS GO!
Posted by: cello_the Spurs fan | May 29, 2008 at 03:44 PM
Here's a story for ya:
My buddy sells used books on Amazon.com, and he just called tp tell me Bill Walton just bought a book from him about Managing Back Pain! I guess the stories about his back problems are true. I told my buddy to stick a note in the book before sending it off saying "Get well soon, because Hubie Brown is driving us crazy!"
Posted by: WWJWWD | May 29, 2008 at 03:45 PM
If a call should have been made, what should the call be? The lakers had 4 team fouls. There had been no fouls in the last two minutes, so this would have been the first.
It was NOT a shooting foul. So I guess since it would be the fifth team foul, he would have to shoot two at the line - right?.
But I agree with chuck and all. Barry did need to sell the foul. He was not looking to shoot. And a smarter player would have drawn contact and attempted to shoot, forcing the ref to call a foul.
Refs don't want to make a call like that, and by Barry trying to avoid contact and dribble around fisher, it gives the impression ( which is all you have in a split second situation like that ) that the contact did not affect his play. Obviously it did,, but in cases like that you have to dramatize that to get the referee's attention.
Posted by: flip | May 29, 2008 at 03:45 PM
"If it's actually a foul (which everyone seems to be conceding), a player shouldn't be required to channel his inner-DeNiro simply because two seconds and change remain. "
Still have to disagree. If that is the case, the league should review all games involving Shaq, Kobe, and Lebron where they CLEARLY get hacked without a call. They should also go back, and put an asterik on the first lakers championship when Divac was clearly pushed during his final shot. I cannot even count how many times a foul was made but never called for various reasons.
If a foul is always a foul, then the playoffs will be FAR less physical, because there would be 40 fouls a game. Shaq would have averaged 60 points in the playoffs and all oppoonents would have fouled out.
A foul is never "just" a foul. It is always subjective. In Shaq and Kobe's case it is due to size. In Divac's case it was because the foul was too light to decide the game.
Everyone is pretending that fouls are black and white, but they are not. Some games are called tighter than others. That is proof that fouls are a sliding scale.
That being said, the foul on Fish was dark dark grey, so yeah, it should have been called. However, the officials were calling a very loose game (at least wrt to lakers). That makes it a little lighter. Barry was dumb enough to dribble into Fish. That makes it a little lighter. It was the end of a serious playoff game, that makes it a little lighter (If you don't agree then maybe lebron, divac and brian russel should petition the league too). That leaves the foul as being dark grey. Add in the fact that the officials totally robbed LA on the previous possession. Now it is plain gray and a toss up. The officials decided in favor of LA. No more, no less.
End of story.
lakers in 5
Posted by: Jeremy R | May 29, 2008 at 03:50 PM
Question for all the Bloggers?
Has anyone stop to think it is actually a non-call instead of a no call... consider this, I have watched a lot of games in my day I've seen a lot of bad calls in all my years of watching basketball. I have seen plenty of bad calls, no calls and what I like to call non-calls etc... This is a non-call (it is a foul, no question) because its incidental contact initiated by Barry. If Barry didn't take that extra dribble into Fisher, there would have never been a questionable call, the ref saw what I saw (Barry caused the contact when he dribbled into Fish) a non-call. Had Barry did what every true jump shooter knows in the NBA is when you get someone in the air; you take a shoot and bump bodies for the foul. IMHO this is a no brainer non-call.
Thoughts?
My Two Cents for free!
Go Lakers!
Posted by: JBizzo | May 29, 2008 at 03:51 PM
AK,
Like I mentioned in the last thread, the relative difficulty in getting fouls called towards the end of games IS WRITTEN IN THE RULE BOOK. That means that by no means is the ref *required* to make that call. That rule, as I heard it (I do not have a rule book handy) applies specifically to fouls.
The book clearly states that there must be more intent involved as the intensity of the game increases (it can be ruled that Fish did not intend to foul based on his body language which shows him trying to alter his flight path in mid-air -- which, of course, is impossible).
I also said that it is ridiculous, but the fact that it is a part of the rules, sort of deflates the whole controversy theory, doesn't it?
Also, since there have been far fewer than 1000 Conference Finals and Finals games to choose from, and we all know at least 5 no-calls of fouls in the waning seconds of such games, your estimate of 99.5% of the time is way too generous. 99.5 percent means 995 out of 1000.
AK, do you have access to the rule book? Can you look it up?
Thanks!
--Fearless
F the Celtics!
Posted by: Fearless | May 29, 2008 at 03:52 PM
While I have to listen to the useless drivel spouted by all the GreenieWeenie fans here in middle of SewerWorld (a.k.a. Celtic Country) I truly feel for any Laker fans on this blog that have the ill fortune of living in Texas.
Have I said recently how much I HATE the effin Celtics?
Posted by: MiloRambaldi | May 29, 2008 at 03:53 PM
AK-
Right on.
Can I get an "Amen" bros and sisters?
AMEN
Posted by: phred | May 29, 2008 at 03:56 PM
Charles,
"Travel, hit the rim - Laker ball, no goal tend on LO. Ok now call the foul..."
Succinctly put.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | May 29, 2008 at 03:58 PM
And I really don't think anybody needs me to point out the lack of logic in the argument- "There was a foul- Therefore, there is a conspiracy."
Right, cause no other possible explanation could explain how it happened.
Posted by: phred | May 29, 2008 at 03:59 PM
AK,
Well said. Let's get on with game 5!!
Posted by: Robyn | May 29, 2008 at 04:00 PM
The Lakers must win this game or this series is going seven.
Posted by: never | May 29, 2008 at 04:01 PM
Question for long time Laker watchers (or at least medium time Lakers watchers);
On the subject of flopping. I recall clearly in my mind's eye a play when RVDus Sabonis was on the Blazers and they were playing the Lakers. Shaq backed into Sabonis and Sabonis flopped so hard one of his flailing fists punched Rasheed Wallace in the face. My question is, was I imagining this? Did anyone else see this happen and can we get this on youtube? Cause that was a top ten moment for me, and I'm not even sure that it happened anymore.
help
CAN I GET A "GO LAKERS!"
GO LAKERS
Posted by: phred | May 29, 2008 at 04:03 PM
Why is there so much focus on the foul at the end of the game, when of equal importance was the refs missing Fisher's shot hitting the rim, which would have led to a new shot clock and the Lakers icing the game with free throws. Why does the league selectively decide to admit it screwed up on one call, then selectively decide not to comment on the other?
Posted by: fredj | May 29, 2008 at 04:09 PM