The afternoon after
First, the big off-court news: Andrew Bynum will get another opinion on his knee - this would be the third (at least that we know about), after the Lakers team surgeon and Dr. David Altcheck, who had treated Bynum when he was still a high schooler in New Jersey. This time, he's back on an eastbound plane to see Dr. Steven Getcha. The visit will come Wednesday in Princeton, NJ. The problem, as it was described to me, was continued "pain and discomfort." We'll try to find more about the situation (not much was given away at practice), and certainly after he's examined, there will be more information, but my guess is that Camp Bynum is trying to figure out where to go from here, and see if there's something they should be trying that they're not. Just a guess, though.
OK, now on to the practice scene. First of all, the Lakers continue to get a lot more popular. The size of the media throng is growing like one of those weird Katamari balls. It's sort of kill or be killed in there, which you'll see manifested in the angle at which I shot the Kobe video today. I happened to be standing in the right spot when Kobe came out of the locker room, and suddenly found myself inside the biggest scrum I'd seen since I quit playing rugby. As a result, I'm shooting from about a foot away on a guy who is about eight inches taller than I am.
For those of you whose love of 24 extends to what might be inside his nose, well, today is your lucky day!
Most of the talk was centered on the physicality of Utah, and L.A.'s lack of success on the boards. The first is something the Lakers need to get used to, the latter being something they need to mitigate. "They play a very physical game," Phil Jackson said, "and they play well under those circumstances. They get into the lane and are after the ball, pushing and grabbing and getting after the basketball."
On the rebounding, where Pau Gasol said the Lakers might have been a little slow to react, and Kobe Bryant thought it had something to do with "two hands in the back," Jackson thought the Lakers needed to be more active. "I thought a lot of it was reaction. Some of our guys didn't position themselves well inside to give themselves enough space to counter the pressure, and when people contest rebounds you're going to get a lot of balls that bounce out of hands and can come loose. That's what happened yesterday," he said. "Everybody's going to have to (do better). Team rebounding. We just have to be more resilient."
Kobe thought they did a good job, having come off a week of rest. (I tend to agree - I'm not of the belief that there are a whole lot of "bad victories" against 54-win teams in the second round of the playoffs. Were they perfect? No, but they were still pretty good.) "Utah is a much bigger challenge for us on both ends of the floor than our first-round opponent, but still in all we have a lot of confidence in ourselves because we believe that we can execute, we can make adjustments, we can retain information," he said. "We're playing well in spurts, but we haven't put together a complete game. I think it's good news. We want to play our best basketball as the playoffs go on. That's our mind-set. We want our team to get better, we don't want to just stay at this level."
A series against the Jazz, who are light years ahead of the Nuggets from a discipline standpoint, will go a long way to helping that happen. They don't do a team any favors. "They're going to take a good shot every time. Even if they're down 17 or 19 points, they're going to take a good shot, which makes it a lot harder to stretch the game out. A lot of times, teams get desperate and take a desperation three and it's a 15-, 16-point game, then all of a sudden we're back at you at the other end of the floor and will push it up to 20," he said. "They seem to stay disciplined all the time, which puts a lot of pressure on us to not foul, not put them at the free-throw line and get easy points, which is what they were able to do yesterday and it kept them in the game."
As for Utah's WWE style of play, it doesn't bother Kobe, or his teammates. "It doesn't matter to us. We ain't no punks. If they want to play ugly, we can play ugly. If they want to play finesse, we can play finesse. Doesn't matter."
Other notes:
- Nice to see Trevor Ariza running at what seems like full speed, moving up and down the court with (who else?) Coby Karl. Still no contact allowed for Ariza, but any sort of activity is encouraging.
- Long after the players had left the court, Sasha Vujacic was still on the floor shooting, working his way around the arc with triple after triple. There's a reason he's improved so much this season.
- Luke Walton (upper respiratory problem) is expected to play Wednesday night. Just in case anyone was worried ...
- Ran into Devin Green, who stopped by practice, and talked with him for a few minutes. He finished up last season in Italy and was pretty pleased with how things went. I didn't get all that deep into whether or not he thought it was the right career move, but hopefully things will work out for him. It would be nice to see him on a roster next year.
- Good line: Asked what it was like to play against Jerry Sloan, Jackson smiled: "I forgot. I have amnesia."
VIDEO:
AUDIO:
Download derek_fisher_5.5.mp3 controller="true" autoplay="false" autostart="0" loop="false" height="20" width="100">
Derek Fisher
BK
Is it just me or is anyone else thinking Lakers in 5?
Posted by: hobbitmage | May 06, 2008 at 07:40 AM
People, exactly what do you think Vitti can do to speed up the actual healing process? What do you think a Doctor would do? As a matter of fact, name one Doctor who's ever sped healing up? Doesn't happen. Doctors can improve the healing process by making it more complete and structurally sound. Trainers can make the healing process more bearable, even to the point of allowing a player to play during the latter stages of that healing.
But, no one, and I mean no one actually speeds healing up. Ever! Heck, when a Doctor intervenes, it usually involves surgery and winds up taking longer. Surgery isn't to make healing faster. Surgery is to make healing better in the long run.
MRI's can only detect certain types of structural damage. That's because it's non-invasive and can only see things that can be detected by a change in magnetic fields. There is a class of injuries that look like normal scans to an MRI. Once someone cuts on his knee to find out for sure, he's done for a good long time after that.
I can't believe what I'm reading. I can't believe that there are people selfish enough to want Bynum to come back even if there is a hint of pain. If I were Buss, I'd put that kid on house arrest if he ever even suggested to me that he wanted to play on any sort of pain at all. His whole career could be in jeopardy. Dumb!
People, this is his knee. Once injured, knees never fully recover anyway. Never. Never. Never. Now, Andrew's young enough that he will be able to adjust to his body's new parameters, and his game will continue to improve and he may still wind up being one of the best centers ever, etc., etc. But, make no mistake, his knee will never be the same again. If you don't believe me, do a Google search and read for yourselves.
The Doctors and trainers are doing all that they can, save the outside chance there is additional undiagnosed damage in there. If that is the case, I'm sure his third opinion will find it. If not, let the kid heal and come back when he's ready. There really is no need to rush at all.
Not even a little.
Pay attention, we all thought Agent Zero healed pretty quickly after his surgery didn't we? NOT!
Shut the kid down and move on.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | May 06, 2008 at 07:44 AM
johnny:
I saw that Kenny George fellow on ESPN a few months back..He is huge..But slow as all hell and I think they said he was young and just learning the game or something...
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | May 06, 2008 at 07:56 AM
Annonymous poster - at least have the guts to put your name to your so-called roll call post. Talk about passive-aggressive bs..........
Anyhoo - LAKER NATION!!!!!!!!!! Stand and be accounted for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PLAYERS ON THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME LIST(6). THE
HOME OF WILT KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
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THE BEAN FOR FINALS MVP OR NO PEACE!
NO CHAMPIONSHIP - NO PEACE!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | May 06, 2008 at 08:13 AM
EX,
Once in a while the great optimist need to be corrected to bring him down to earth. While I agree 90% of his post, I disagree in leaving behind some players while invoking God as a Laker fan. Everybody knows that we are all true Laker fans, must we include God as a testament that we are indeed a Laker fan. That's against the 2nd commandment: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord God in vain."
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 06, 2008 at 08:14 AM
"The Lakers management is not allowing Bynum to play on purpose in order to reduce his stock value and therefore be able to sign him to a smaller than MAX contract."
That's silly.
Oops - Sorry! I mean, I wonder how much they had to pay to get three different doctors, two of whom are not associated with the Lakers, to get them to say that Bynum is not ready to play yet. And they also had to pay every other team to agree not to sign Bynum to a free agent contract when he is available. And it's really lucky that Bynum is so dumb; he obviously thinks he still has pain in the knee
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 06, 2008 at 08:18 AM
Lakersrydeordie,
"People, exactly what do you think Vitti can do to speed up the actual healing process"
He should study medicine than handling the stats sheets for PJ.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 06, 2008 at 08:23 AM
Good Morning, Laker Nation!
Ummm... why is Andrew Bynum flying to New York to see a specialist? There are plenty of good doctors here in Los Angeles and they'll be able to see Andrew without a five hour flight that will make his knee swell up.
Anyhow, I was watching the Spurs-Hornets game last night. Didn't like it one bit. Nope. Not at all.
Them Hornets are good. Yep. They sure are. It disturbs me how strong a second half team they are. Byron Scott has done an incredible job with that team.
When we play them, we're not going to be able to double-team their players, because they hit the open man, and their open man makes his shots.
Anyhow, I'm getting ahead of myself. We need to kill the Jazz first.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | May 06, 2008 at 08:30 AM
REPOST:
DEAR GOD - Please send your healing touch to Andrew Bynum's knee. Yes, you can use doctors, healing herbs, vitamins and other things, but, ultimately YOU are the one true healer. Do not heal him solely for our glory as Laker Fans. Heal him for Your Glory - that this experience would cause Andrew to experience your power and love. Touch the doctor who will be examining his knee. Give him the insight needed to both accurately diagnose the injury to Andrew's knee and to guide our leaders on the best course of action. We just don't want Drew for this year's playoff campaign. We want Drew with us in the years to come! You have built our legacy on towering, dominating Centers and their equally dynamic counterparts. Do Your work again, Lord. Heal Andrew and get him back to us...In Your Time and In Your Season. We thank You in advance...AMEN!
Posted by: utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER | May 06, 2008 at 08:36 AM
Benjamin,
Do you know by comparison how accurate a Positon Emission (PET) scan is as compared to an MRI?
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | May 06, 2008 at 08:43 AM
RRROOOOOOOLLLLLLL CAAAAALLLL!!!!!
MAMBA24
Posted by: (1) Faith, Bob, Keifo, Vman. Jay Jay, Charles, Edwin Gueco, Tsiry, FATTY, AngryLakerTha Show, Tim-4- | May 06, 2008 at 08:55 AM
I agree that Gary Vitti should not get all the blame for all the injuries suffered by the Lakers, but I find it somewhat amusing everytime someone would say that "he is one of the best in the league".
Okay, please... would someone kindly support this with some evidence or data. Otherwise, let's just say Garry Vitti has been around a long long time, and he is famous for his "Blu Goo"!!
Posted by: Robyn | May 06, 2008 at 09:01 AM
Get of Bynum. If Tim Duncan can sit out a playoffs cuz of a knee so can Bynum (check the history books).
This is a 21/22 year old who totally dislocated his knee.
It'd be foolish for him to jeopardize a 10 year career.
Let Bynum get well soon.
AND, in the end the Lakers will be able to pay less money to keep Bynum... JACKPOT!!!
Posted by: Korey | May 06, 2008 at 09:02 AM
I live in Princeton and my younger son goes to Dr. Gecha for his knee problems. Gecha specializes in pediatric orthopedics and he might identify issues that are not prevalent among adults. After all, Bynum's issues might be complicated by the fact that 20 year old males are still growing.
We ahve been pleased with the results. Gecha developed a physical therapy program for our son and always thought of surgery as the last resort.
Posted by: eastcoastlaker | May 06, 2008 at 09:05 AM
The TEAM is peaking even if all the players aren't personally, they are playing their role. Farmar peaked in December, Ronny has had setbacks, Vlad peaked in the 4th quarter of the Mav game in Dallas, D Fish has had historically great spurts for years and I'd say today's Kobe edges out the one in the 15-1 run. In Chick's words "no team ever played at a higher level". He must be smilin' down on Kobe today.
Laker TOm's optimism is warranted. There's never been a brighter Laker future, and Phil / staff has got them gelling at the right time. They have become a consistent defensive presence even without they're shot swatter in uniform.
GO BLog, Go Lakers
Posted by: Vman | May 06, 2008 at 09:15 AM
MJT-
I know he didn't actually play any games for them this year, and then (I believe) played in at least one Euro league, the last one being in Italy. I also thought he had gone to Germany, but that might have been last season.
Benjamin-
Thanks for the info! It's always good to get more background on stuff than I might have myself (House and ER only take a guy so far- haha).
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 06, 2008 at 09:19 AM
According to one of the reports from a week or so ago, Bynum is slightly knock-kneed, and has a wider than normal pelvis for someone his size; those factors complicate his issue.
There is NO reason at this point to question the competency of the people examining/working with Bynum, other than the reason that you would like him playing right now.
Him going back east to be seen by the doctor who treated him in high school, and thus would be much more familiar with his case and history, makes very good sense. So does sending him back east to someone who specializes in this area; someone different from the people who have already examined him. That is common sense and good practice; you ought to appreciate the fact that that is occurring, rather than complain about it.
A lot of you seem to be forgetting how frequent the occurrence is of "bigs" whose bodies can not handle the stress of NBA basketball. This is a person who had injury problems in high school - it would be sheer idiocy to try and rush him back.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 06, 2008 at 09:26 AM
I broke a bone in my wrist (there's something like a dozen bones in there, seriously.) It healed just fine, but the pain were still there, especially if I exercise on it.
It lasted for a couple years, but when I stopped all exercise for a long while (read: no pushing exercises), the pain finally went away.
It was very annoying feeling that pain, and it is something I am pretty sure Bynum have. I suppose he'll have to wear a leg-brace.
Posted by: Teej | May 06, 2008 at 09:31 AM
Edwin Gueco,
I didnt get your POST, maybe it was intended for someone else on the blog but in any event I feel you.
Why everyone is sooo bummed on Andrew, its going on 4months without him???..Hell, I hardly miss him anymore to be truthful. It'd be nice to have him back but that is likely not gonna happen. Besides, Trevor should be back soon. So, we still have that to look forward to, providing everything checks out accordingly THIS FRIDAY!!"
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | May 06, 2008 at 09:39 AM
BK,
"House and ER only take a guy so far- haha"
Well, duh - you need to be watching 'Scrubs'!!
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 06, 2008 at 10:09 AM
exhelodrvr,
" BK,
"House and ER only take a guy so far- haha"
Well, duh - you need to be watching 'Scrubs'!!
I myself prefer the sweet Dr. Marcus Welby. He has such nice calves.
Posted by: Head Nurse | May 06, 2008 at 10:21 AM
It is very good to hear that someone here on the blog has had a positive experience with Bynum's next opinion. It is funny that the papers are reporting that he is getting a second opinion. Isn't this his 10th? (or if you count opinions of fans, the 10,000th)...
I actually rotated through the MRI lab that was the first to show 1mm resolution of cortical columns. At the time it was pretty exciting stuff (for nerds anyway). I do not think many (or any) hospitals have the capability to utilize those big magnets clinically yet (there are only a handful in the world).
My (limited) understanding is that regardless of how good the resolution is (or if one uses PET scanning) there are still some things that need to be seen with the naked eye.
Posted by: C.S. | May 06, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Jon K,
PET scanning is a whole other animal. PET scanning shows regional blood flow. Obviously, blood flow might differ some between injured and uninjured tissue, but I'm not sure it's very useful or even used to diagnose joint injuries.
Resolution over space is much lower with PET scanning compared to MRI. It varies between 6-8 mm, but can be reduced to 3 X 3 X 3 mm using integrative calculus. Primarily you can determine regional glucose consumption. It's useful for determining what areas of the brain are active in short time resolution--I think you get a different reading every 10s of seconds or so. MRI has a temporal resolution of minutes to hours I think.
PET scanning is a bit out a style because they have a better technique in fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging). The most common fMRI (BOLD--blood oxygen level detection) determines regional oxygen density and indirectly indicates ares of differential metabolic activty. In the brain, you can see what areas are active. fMRI has much better spatial resolution and better temporal resolution than PET scanning, on the order of seconds.
I am unaware of fMRI being used for joint injuries. It might no be very useful for the task.
It's great for studying cognition and functional localization in the brain. Data can be poorly analyzed. In some ways fMRI is used almost like a new phrenology. Just by the fact that some brain areas are excitatory (increases chance of down circuit neurons to fire) and some are inhibitory (decreases chancs of down circuit neurons to fire) you can't assume a metabolically active area is a perfect analog for regional functionality--it's a more complicated system than that. There are backstream neuromodulators like nitric oxide, negative feedback, and extremely complex circuitry (maybe 5 trillion synapses for 100 billion brain neurons) that greatly complicate our attempts at understanding the system. Another issue is that neurons can fire maximally at 1200 action potentials per second. The average neuron probably fires in the few hundred times per second range maximally. So a time resolution of seconds can miss a great deal.
Based on Bynum's current knee issue occurring over at least a few days to weeks (I assume his knee has changed a fair amount since the initial injury), I would guess Bynum would benefit most from a technique that gave extremely good spatial resolution. As BK mentioned and makes sense to me, we might not be able to see what's going on in there with just MRI as it does have limitations even though it's much better than x-ray.
There are MRIs with fairly different strength magnets. The higher the strength of magnet, the better the image resolution. I don't know if Bynum's seen a 7 Tesla strength MRI yet, but it might be a good last resort before they cut him, even if it's a small arthroscopic cut. I guarantee his doctors can do better than speculate in this regard.
Posted by: Benjamin | May 06, 2008 at 03:51 PM
BK,
Anytime man. It's nice that I occasionally get to use my degree for something! I love House. The medical stuff in it is quite solid from what I've seen. ER was pretty good too, back when I watched it. Mostly freakish 1000:1 or 1,000,000:1 cases, but of course that's what makes them interesting.
Teej,
I've had 10+ fractures and have had similar experiences. I've also had a subluxed labrum (shoulder). Particularly with injuries near at a joint, discomfort can last a long time and may take years to self-resolve. That is, of course, without NBA-class medical care where expense is not an issue.
Posted by: Benjamin | May 06, 2008 at 04:09 PM