Fish on Kobe
With their second-round opponent still yet to be determined, it was again a relatively low-key day in El Segundo on Thursday afternoon. Not much playoff action to discuss, but with hardware soon to be awarded, Kobe's MVP candidacy was on the mind of many writers. I had an interesting exchange with Derek Fisher, who is always candid and open with his opinion. He had been talking about how Kobe has met that nebulous criteria this season of "making his teammates better," and that you could see it not only in the performance of his teammates, but the record of the team as well. Yes, they've improved individually, but Kobe's play has been a part of that, especially as it bears on team success. Call it a symbiotic relationship. Like the shark and remora.
BK: It's always a chicken and egg sort of question. Is a guy trusting his teammates because they're playing better, or are they playing better because he's trusting them more? How does that work, especially with Kobe? Guys have stepped up this year, but it seems like he's changed what he's done.
Fisher: I think it is kind of a question mark in terms of which one comes first. I love to use football analogies. If I were Tom Brady or Tony Romo, and I threw the ball to a guy and he consistently dropped the ball, I would be a little hesitant to throw it to him in certain situations. So I think that happens. But if I'm throwing him the ball and he's consistently catching it when we need to catch it, then I'm going to be more confident in third-down situations or whatever, to throw him the ball. They feed off of each other. As many of our young guys that came back improved, and better than they were the year before - significantly - his trust grew immediately, right away, early in the season. Then it just continued to grow as the season moved on as different guys at different times showed an ability to really help our team.
BK: Could you see that happen? You've got a good perspective, having played with him before and now again.
Fisher: I think he's always gone through times when he's done it too much (trying to distribute), and not being the aggressive Kobe that he needs to be in order for everybody else to know where to fit in. He's been criticized for that at times, where he didn't do enough. And there's been times where he felt like, okay, he's not sensing that everyone else is at a level where they need to be, so then he'll try to do too much. But this year, it just seems, other than maybe two or three games where he felt like he had to score 45 or 50 or whatever, outside of those two or three games it seems like he's just been in a nice consistent pace, where he's picked and chosen a particular quarter to assert himself, to score 15 or 18 points in a quarter, but over the balance of the game he hasn't put himself in a position where it has to be him.
He's trusted me making big shots, he's trusted Gasol making plays down the stretch, he's trusted Lamar Odom, Farmar, Sasha, Ronny. Everybody that's been in the game. Luke hit a big shot off a penetration and kick in Denver (at the end of Game 4). I think he's done a great job of keeping that balance.
BK: And teams know it's there (the ability to do either).
Fisher: I think teams have known it was there, I think, for a long time. At times, even with our teams in the past, that was really Shaq's so-called complaint. Was that we have arguably the most talent in the league, so let's do this thing together. Now, I think with the team that's constructed now, people are seeing the talent that we have, and it's kind of scary because of how young the talent is. To think that if we're able to manage our way through this particular postseason and come up with what we need to become champions right now, then to think about how good our future could be if we just continue to trust in each other and believe in each other and get better every year? That's exciting as well.
Right now, we're just waiting on who we'll see to take that next step.
In other news, I managed to get a quick word in with Brian Shaw, who like fellow Laker assistants Jim Cleamons and Kurt Rambis, has found his name bandied about in the coaching rumors. Recent news has put guys like Avery Johnson and Mike D'Antoni in the spotlight, but among the ranks of assistant coaches, guys like Shaw are held in high regard. What they aren't, though, is presently available to interview. A nice change from the past three seasons when Laker coaches had more vacation time, but still a potential crimp in the quest to move up the food chain.
Shaw said it's something he can't worry about.
"For me personally, I block all that stuff out. It all works itself out the way it's supposed to work itself out. If something's going to be available to maybe move up, I just believe it will be there. Teams that are really serious about doing stuff know that teams that go deep into the playoffs may have people on the staff that they may need to take a look at. So you have to let that process happen. It's all going to end before the draft anyway. Most teams want a coach in place before the draft, and if you go all the way to the Finals and go seven games, it'll still end a week before the draft. You can't get caught up in thinking about it."
"It's nice to hear your name pop up, but you can't caught up in that. If you get a call and it happens, then great. If not, then you just keep working and keep concentrating."
Not much from PJ today, though he did have some complimentary words for the toughness shown by Vladdy in Game 4, and the small forward position in general. I asked him how improved play there, be it from Radmanovic, Walton, or both, helps the team, and the answer comes in flexibility. To cover shortcomings at small forward during the regular season, PJ often had to use Kobe there. When there's production from that spot, Jackson can still slide Kobe down, but he doesn't have to. As is the case with so many things about the Lakers, it plays into their ability to put a wide variety of lineups on the floor to suit any given situation.
Other topics- staying sharp despite the layoff, familiarity with both opponents and scouting how to stop them, and bench play.
AUDIO:
- Jackson: Download phil_jackson_5.2.mp3
We'll stick this in tomorrow's news post as well, but the LAT's Jonathan Abrams filed an interesting piece about the triangle offense, how it works, how the Lakers have run it, and how Pau's presence has impacted it.
Working on getting the video from today up as well.
BK
We can all argue about maturity and leadership.. fact of the matter is it is easier to trust and maintain trust when you receive results. Kobe played much like this beginning of last year.. then, everything came apart and the only real way to make the playoffs was to rely on Kobe.
Kobe started out the same way this year, the results remained positive and he continued playing that way. When Bynum went down, we saw some overreliance on Kobe for a while and then Gasol came and everything was back to normal. It's just the way it goes.. Injuries can derail a team. We saw Odom never being comfortable as the second guy and that put the pressure on Kobe because Odom NEVER took initiative. That's fine.. he fits in with the current crew.. but, he as the second guy behind Kobe? Nope.
It is a two way street. When you produce results consistently, a leader can live with some off games and try to work it out with you during those off games. When he sees that you are putting the working in. When you see guys like Smush slumping (even when his team was succeeding!) and Kwame never being able to catch and finish, etc., there really is no future to look forward to no matter how patient Kobe was/could have been. What do you expect out of Kobe? Miracles?
The only real improvement I'm seeing from Kobe is from execution standpoint (actually, I wouldn't say it is an improvement.. he is just playing like he used to in our championship years.. People forget his trust, passes, 'hockey assists' in our playoff runs). Off the court, he seems to be more involved. He is more mellow and that comes with age.
Posted by: Lakerfan | May 02, 2008 at 06:42 AM
Mamba24's Haters can BITE ME list:
1. Justanothermambafan
2. SBPimp
3. Benjamim
4. Toad
5. coolhair
6. Pig Miller
7. utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER
8. HmrHed
9. ajax
10. giantsquid
11. Glen
12. LakerTom
13. Mamba24Fan4Life
14. Edwin Gueco
15. HoustonLakerGirl
16. Kobesbad
17. Charles
18. Happy Camper
19. SamLL
20. Vman
21. #4
22. Nemaia Faletogo
23. MarkytheArky
24. JohnnyP
25. complexbrotha
26. Caliphilosopher
27. Bzar
.
.
.
47. MiloRambaldi--for those who read backwards....EMETIB
48. Faith
49. bozz
Posted by: bozz | May 02, 2008 at 06:44 AM
MAMBA24 BEING HELD HOSTAGE - DAY 1
Posted by: | May 02, 2008 at 07:02 AM
Mamba24's Haters can BITE ME list:
1. Justanothermambafan
2. SBPimp
3. Benjamim
4. Toad
5. coolhair
6. Pig Miller
7. utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER
8. HmrHed
9. ajax
10. giantsquid
11. Glen
12. LakerTom
13. Mamba24Fan4Life
14. Edwin Gueco
15. HoustonLakerGirl
16. Kobesbad
17. Charles
18. Happy Camper
19. SamLL
20. Vman
21. #4
22. Nemaia Faletogo
23. MarkytheArky
24. JohnnyP
25. complexbrotha
26. Caliphilosopher
27. Bzar
.
.
.
47. MiloRambaldi--for those who read backwards....EMETIB
48. Faith
49. bozz
50. Juno
Posted by: Juno | May 02, 2008 at 07:30 AM
BK,
you wrote this to pfunk:
I believe, as I've written countless times, that last season Kobe began a process of realizing that his excellence could only lead the team so far, and that he had to at the same time do what he could to put his teammates in the best position to succeed, and in their combined success the team would thrive. That, as much as anything, is why the team played so well through 40 games last year. Injuries scuttled that process.
my response: I think that I'm siding with pfunk32 on his
question to you. What *I* recall is that you *consistently*
stressed Kobe needed to make his teammates better
without addressing the scrubs that he had as
teammates. If Kobe averaged 5 assists 6 years ago and
he's averaging 5 assists now, then the logic *seems*
sketchy for his growth regarding his teammates and
success. I think Kobe's assists are higher now, but
1. He doesn't have a fat lazy ball hog in the center.
2. He's got more "shooters" then he had 6 years ago.
ps. I will agree that he's a better leader than he was
5 years ago. Even 2 years ago. He's finally out of the
fat man's shadow and his coach has had to "live" a
retraction of his statement about Kobe being
uncoachable.
Posted by: hobbitmage | May 02, 2008 at 07:37 AM
Good Morning Laker Nation
Mamba24, I'm trusting you are out there and have seen the response to the handful of haters who tried to censor you yesterday, and that you have seen the response pouring in in your support.
Toad is present and accounted for, Mamba, and ready for ROLL CALL!!!!!!!!!!
Please do not let the haters change your presence here on the blog in any way..........you are far too revered here for you to allow a few to deprive the majority of us of your energy, enthusiasm and humor.
I anxiously await this morning's ROLL CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mamba24's Haters can BITE ME list:
1. Justanothermambafan
2. SBPimp
3. Benjamim
4. Toad
5. coolhair
6. Pig Miller
7. utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER
8. HmrHed
9. ajax
10. giantsquid
11. Glen
12. LakerTom
13. Mamba24Fan4Life
14. Edwin Gueco
15. HoustonLakerGirl
16. Kobesbad
17. Charles
18. Happy Camper
19. SamLL
20. Vman
21. #4
22. Nemaia Faletogo
23. MarkytheArky
24. JohnnyP
25. complexbrotha
26. Caliphilosopher
27. Bzar
.
.
.
47. MiloRambaldi--for those who read backwards....EMETIB
48. Faith
If you agree with the sentiment, just CUT/PASTE & add your name to the bottom of the list.
Hopefully, the length of MY post will now be a thorn in the side of all the haters for one thing, and also that Mamba24 will see the loyalty and appreciation the blog has for his outstanding contribution to the life and feel of this award-winning Laker Nation blog.
GO LAKERS!
COME BACK MAMBA24!!!!!!!
Posted by: toad | May 02, 2008 at 07:37 AM
[Shaw's way of supporting "the Story"]
There's definitely some of this going on.. just like when people try to find reason for failure, they try to find reason for success.. when it's never one particular thing that makes it happen.
It's just the feel good story right now.
No unbiased person would deny that Kobe had his flaws and continues to have some flaws that needs continuous improvement. However, it is important to realize all factors.
Posted by: Lakerfan | May 02, 2008 at 07:41 AM
Pincus update on Bynum. Doesn't sound good at all. He even mentions the possibility of surgery and call the notion that the Lakers are holding back Bynum as some sort of "secret weapon" fanciful.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8526
Posted by: giantsquid | May 02, 2008 at 07:50 AM
I was watching TNT coverage last night and it was cool that an artist drew the caricature of Sir Charles on this techno pad wherein knobs were used as his pencils. Very creative. TNT drew audiences because of new things outside of basketball but related to it like fishing for the losers, the imitation of Kobe by Kenny Smith, the dancing nude Barkley and so forth, yes it is funny, I guess the ratings goes up with it as well.
The same way with the Loose Cannons at noontime, they do all kinds of gimmicks to attract their listening audience to their sportscast, go endless debates by talking simultaneously and instantaneous as well by VTB adn SH with banter from MT all in jest, singing on the radio like Karioke, go into contests and so forth. It brings life at siesta hour when people prefers to take a nap especially Gasol.
While our TV broadcasters, Joel Myers and Stu they just summarized the hoopla of previous game that everyone knew and watched. Joel goes into his own commercials on the air and Stu espouses his basketball knowledge with endless lectures on how to move, how to shoot etc....at a certain point you become bored with the repertoire, nothing is new everything is old. Chiqui was old when he injected new chiquisms with full of energy during play-by-play.
My point here is our Blog. If we just go with the threads of AK/BK, questions, answers, rebuttals,more rebuttals, go personal, trade insults then fight....it becomes boring and repetitious, no creativity, nothing new. The old blog we used to have bio-chrono from Jon K for every new player, then comes the Jackson Journal from Mike T, the long history of PJ, MJ & the Bulls from JJ, until Mamba25 appeared and created the roll call where all our names are accounted for. This what makes this blog different from others. There is an evolution of events created by bloggers themselves through constant communication. It may appear obnoxious to some and too bothersome to the grumpies but there is renaissance and imagination in it. An elder fan becomes child again. It starts a new day at Lakerville and brings life to the circulatory system of every Laker fan. Now he gets up and read, ready to contribute, to cheer for his team, to answer any unanswered queries. It activated the world of Laker fans out there in different time zones, they too get their share of activities as soon as they wake up and talk about Lakers from Kiwi in England, Kris in Norway, Tsphere in France, Alexinho17 in Portugal, Minlinho in Brazil, Botsoy in the Philippines, Thirty two in Australia and so forth. This is what the roll call has done for us. We are young again, new imagination, less grumpier and forget for a while our real world problems out there with high cost of gas on the pump, low wages or no jobs at all, some are sick or someone in the closed family could not afford healthcare, some are sick of politicians who brought down the value of life, some have relatives or friends in Iraq who couldn't even log or watch games under surveillance of suicide squads. In our case, we're fortunate that we have Lakers Blog to express our passion and also for life's relief or comic relief as F. Fatty said.
Therefore, Laker Truth, I know you're teasing Mamba24 that went out of context, how about Andy, Curious George and I assumed our matured brother here, J. Weathermen, is there a way we can get along and enjoy the day without any recriminations on the roll call?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 02, 2008 at 08:04 AM
FRANK RIZZO:” God bless the dude, but if I see Mamba24's name in one more post
I am gonna scream. (Looks up at his own post) Oh Gawd, there it is again. :(
NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY SH+T LMAO!! I AGREE FRANK 100%
PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE! STOP THIS, STOP THIS NOW! LOL!
IF I WERE NOT HIM MY REACTION WOULD BE, F*C* MAMBA24 TO! LOL!
To all of those who expressed support and had my back
yesterday God Bless you all. To Laker Truth, we cool
brother, you always been one of my main blogging buddies.
Yesterday was not really about someone being against me or the
Roll Call. To Andy I say God Bless you sir and you did make
some very valid points…but. Yesterday was not about you either
J.W. Weatherman I feel your pain sir but it was not about you
Either so I apologize. Your critical post just happen to come
at a critical juncture in my life which led to a Gestalt like
Moment. I don’t’ want to be morbid or maudlin but I think
After 3 years of being a part of this Blogging family the
Least I could do is give you an explanation. As most of you
Know my Mom died 3 months ago and she was the center
Of my life. Instead of taking the time to properly mourn
Her passing I just jumped right back into activities as if to show
My strength. Yesterday was my Fathers birthday it was also
The third anniversary of his passing. So improper mourning,
Reflection on my father and then what seemed to be a
Concentrated attack on me especially by one whom I
considered a brother in the struggle led to a single, crystal
Clear moment of clarity. I NEED A VACATION! LOL!
So even though these are the happiest days of my life
Because of my beloved Lakers success, they also happen
To be some of the saddest days. Oh yeah one other thing
I forgot to mention. Career Burnout. I’ve been a System
Analyst for over 15 years and it’s got to the point that I
Can’t stand being around computers, even to keep up
With Laker news and post roll calls and bandwagons.
So as I said all the events came crashing together on
My Dad’s birthday and since it appeared that Roll Call
Etc. was no longer wanted or needed it was the perfect
Time to get away. So that’s it. GOT TO TAKE SOME
REAL TIME OUT. Thanks everybody I would thank
You individually but then I’d get criticized for that
Also. But I have to thank 4 individuals by name:
Edwin Gueco, Faith, JustAnotherMambaFan and
Keifo. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for
Everything. Well that’s it. I think the Lakers will win
The championship and I know on the very best of
Authority that Kobe has won the MVP and the vote
Was not even close. D@mn this thing is getting
Long. I love all of you. I guess I won’t get to wear
those speedo’s my Latina Queen. Good by and God Bless.
ROLL CALL: MAN
(1) Faith, Bob, Keifo, Vman. Jay Jay, Charles, Edwin Gueco, Tsiry, FATTY, AngryLaker
Tha Show, Tim-4-Show, TheLakeShow, Generic_One, Pig Miller, Toad, Taliq, LakerTruth
WesJoeNixon, Zakee, Cleon, SBPimp, The_D, Bozz, #4, Nemia Faletogo, Elle, HmrHed
ComptonsFinest, FlagrantFowl LakerLegacy, Exhelodrvr, Laker Tom, Rick Friedman ,
RDLEE, PURPLE HEART, Allan-Brazil, Puddle, Andrew Z. Hugo Boss, CORNER J.
The Outlaw, Tsphere, Jon Kavulic, WeaveMan, SixOneZero, FearlessWhackJob, CBuck
utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER, DICE8UP, Never, JANAYA, EastCoastJessie, Jman
BackMamba24, BrownMamba24, WhiteMamba24, Mamba24Fan4Life, FanOfMamba,
JustAnotherMAMBAFAN, Mamba#5, JustALakerFan, VI LakerFan, LALFan, KOBE24
Greek Dude, Afro Joe, KB8THWonder, Original Ken, Original J J, LakerMan420,
PURPLE&GOLD_REIN, ZEN, Ando, Brylle, MOKO, JOHNNY P., MIKE DILLS, ISSANG
LakerGurl, SFLakerGirl, PsychedLakerGirl, SimiLakerGirl, LakerGirl1980, LakerLass
HoustonLakerGirl, SheKobe, LakersRydeOrDie, SloGal, TWoody, LakerFaze, Wow
DrewPauKobe, GoKobeGo, KobesBad, KobeRocks, Laker/KobeFan, NIK KANNAN
MrBarneryDangles, Todd, JesterGuru, SmoothD, JCool, Jeff, David Whang, WWKBD
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Stars_R_Aligned, Cscoot, The_Dude_Abides, Johnny Laker, The HEAD-MBENGA
L.A. Watcher, LakerGurl, FUEGO32, EHOMP, KCHW, MICHIGAN_LAKER
Complex Brotha, WondahBap, Derek, Benjamin, The HAMMER, Cyrus(Ventrilquist),
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Amazing Happens, TELLitLIKEitIS PSLakerLover, Lakers4Lyfe, Lakers4Real, Che,
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: DAVE ROSENZWEIG, DANCAT, LakerBandit, TwoForOne7, HAWAIID,Chick4Ever
You Ever Notice? MarkyTheArky, Justin Leonard, FIishEye, Linda Pineda, Kidwell, Mel
BronxLakerFan ChitTownLaker, HoustonLaker, TexasLaker, BrazillianLaker, USCLaker
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*
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES.
THE TEAM WITH THE BEST WINNING PERCENTAGE IN NBA HISTORY.
THE ONLY TEAM WITH 2 HOF COACHES. THE TEAM WITH THE MOST
PLAYERS ON THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME LIST(6). THE
HOME OF WILT KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
ELGIN BAYLOR, THE LOGO(JERRY WEST), PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY,
BOB MCADOO, "BIG SHOT ROB HORRY" GAIL GOODRICH
THE LEGENDARY SPORTSCASTER CHICK HEARN
COACHED BY 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON
& OWNED BY THE BEST D@MN OWNER IN SPORTS DR. JERRY BUSS
AND THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN EVER DEFEAT OR DIVIDE US IS US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
Posted by: Mamba24 | May 02, 2008 at 08:04 AM
hobbitmage-
Due respect, you recall incorrectly. Go back and read what I've been writing for the last three seasons. I've talked often, especially around MVP time, about how while I think there's some validity to it, I think the "making teammates better" thing is over used- it's certainly not the reason Kobe shouldn't have had the MVP last year, lack of overall team success was. It's not a one man game, and players need talent around them to reach the highest levels. It's not fair to blame Kobe because he can't turn Smush Parker into Tony Parker. Nor have I blamed Kobe for the team not advancing in the post-Shaq era. I've been pretty clear that the team hasn't been good enough.
My criticisms of Kobe on this site have almost always been about shot selection, and decision making as to when to go into "takeover" mode. There have absolutely been times when I felt Kobe became impatient with those around him, and shot the Lakers into or out of games by himself, leaving the team structure in which they had the greatest chance for success (even if that greatest chance wasn't enough for a title). Does it help that trust and patience level for Kobe to have a better team around him? Of course. The flip side is that the Lakers wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are if Kobe didn't take steps as a leader and player on the court, which he has. It's not simply about assist numbers, but timing, style, shot selection, etc. Kobe's numbers have always been amazing, because he's always been amazing as a player.
Now he's a better kind of amazing, because his become a better leader and decision maker on the floor, more willing to influence games in all the different ways he can.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 02, 2008 at 08:05 AM
Good Laker Morning to All.
Mamba, where are you.
Nice to see the anti-mamba people can bite me list growing.
Please let Utah finish them off tonight. I can't take it anymore. Hopefully we are just game planning for Utah, because that is the only possibility in my mind.
All the Kobe talk! Kobe is doing what he has been doing for a while, minus the bitching at the other guys. He has also figured out his shoot vs pass dilemma. 46 shots one game and 6 the next. He looks a bit happier which makes him more endearing. The bottom line is that the MVP is a popularity contest. Kobe has continued to be excellent and some chose to take their blinders off when our success demands it.
Much love to all of you regular posters who make this such a great community. Are you here PLG?
Kobesbaaaaad(and he is)
Posted by: Kobesbad | May 02, 2008 at 08:13 AM
pfunk-
So basically every player or coach around the league who doesn't agree with you and has a different interpretation of Kobe's career arc is biased and/or has some sort of axe to grind. Got it. I'll be sure to let them know. That these people have played with him, against him, worked with him, been in the locker room with him- I can totally see why you wouldn't find value in their perspective.
Look, if you're upset about writers who blamed Kobe for the team not doing better in the last three seasons, I can certainly understand that... except I'm not one of them. If you're saying that Kobe is exactly the same player and leader today as he was three, four, five years ago? I simply don't agree. I think it's evident in his play, his demeanor, and his words.
Again, you and people like you seem to feel threatened by that, because of the implication that Kobe wasn't perfect before, and that some criticisms of him had some validity. No player or person for that matter (including Prince, or every bit of work he's done would be as good as Sign O' The Times or Purple Rain) is infallable. All have room to grow, places to improve. Why this bothers you is beyond me.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 02, 2008 at 08:19 AM
Good Morning Mamba24....Your post showed up right after I had posted mine. Don't let the lunatics run the asylum. Your love is like VTBs. Necessary for the collective mindset. Remember, morons come and they go, but the LakersBlog is here to stay and you need to be too.
Kobesbaaaad(and he is)
Posted by: Kobesbad | May 02, 2008 at 08:20 AM
hmmm...
I should drink some coffee before posting. If anyone has read or reads one of my previous posts, which seemed to imply that kobe takes criticism poorly, I actually meant just the opposite.
Oh well.
Posted by: giantsquid | May 02, 2008 at 08:20 AM
Good Morning! New Day and l love this blog!
Moving on...
Posted by: Charles | May 02, 2008 at 08:24 AM
LakerTom,
I fully agree on Rdlee, here's a guy who is eyewitness so he can argue with your franchise players.
After his Portland stint, Bill never helped the San Diego Clippers after being paid with big bucks. He is like the modern Brian Grant. When he was well enough I find him as an "opportunist" to join the Celtics than help the Clipper organization. Therefore, if he is a franchise player which franchise can he be indentified with? Our younger fans today are not too familiar with Elgin Baylor as one of the bulwark of the Lakers franchise. I often hear his name from Chick in the sixties at Clark Air Force base in the Philippines, today we're more familiar with Showtime era players. Rdlee was right there that Baylor and West carried this franchise during the infancy of NBA, all Laker players should look at these guys like our founding fathers Pres. Washington and Jefferson.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 02, 2008 at 08:26 AM
Mamba 24: I'mma tell my Mama on you!
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | May 02, 2008 at 08:30 AM
Mamba24 - My heart jumped when I started reading this morning & saw your post! I was so excited to see you there! Then as I continued reading, I realized what you're going through and was immediately depressed. There are so many things in this world that can bring us down, and when they start piling up on top of each other it seems sometimes that it's more than we can ever handle on our own. However, please remember that you are not alone. I haven't been on the blog very long, but I do know that you've got some very good friends here & people who have your back. I understand you feel like you need a bit of a break, but please don't forget that usually the best thing we can do for ourselves in this frame of mind is to focus on others. Please - take some time off BUT come back. The blog loves you & from all the comments I've read as a result of the BITE ME list, they all need you. You brighten our day, you make us smile, you give us something to look forward to, and you help unite us as one big happy Laker Nation family. Please consider my words, take some time to figure stuff out, and come back to the ones who love you - your family.
Sincerely,
justanothermambafan
Posted by: justanothermambafan | May 02, 2008 at 08:31 AM
Mamba24, welcome back. Thanks for coming back.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 02, 2008 at 08:34 AM
Mamba24, welcome back. Keep it going my fellow laker fan.
Posted by: #4 | May 02, 2008 at 08:53 AM
Mamba24's Haters can BITE ME list:
1. Justanothermambafan
2. SBPimp
3. Benjamim
4. Toad
5. coolhair
6. Pig Miller
7. utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER
8. HmrHed
9. ajax
10. giantsquid
11. Glen
12. LakerTom
13. Mamba24Fan4Life
14. Edwin Gueco
15. HoustonLakerGirl
16. Kobesbad
17. Charles
18. Happy Camper
19. SamLL
20. Vman
21. #4
22. Nemaia Faletogo
23. MarkytheArky
24. JohnnyP
25. complexbrotha
26. Caliphilosopher
27. Bzar
.
.
.
47. MiloRambaldi--for those who read backwards....EMETIB
48. Faith
49. Michigan Laker
Good to see you again Mamba 24,
Michigan Laker
Posted by: MichiganLaker | May 02, 2008 at 08:56 AM
God Bless you MANMBA 24!!
You deserve some real time off to look at life.
You will always be my BROTHER... Forever!!
GO LAKE SHOW!!
GO MAMBA 24!!!
LIGHTS OUT!!!
Keifo
Posted by: keifo | May 02, 2008 at 09:01 AM
BK
"So basically every player or coach around the league who doesn't agree with you and has a different interpretation of Kobe's career arc is biased and/or has some sort of axe to grind. Got it. I'll be sure to let them know. That these people have played with him, against him, worked with him, been in the locker room with him- I can totally see why you wouldn't find value in their perspective".
I am not saying this at all............What I am saying is that most of these opinions are not based on the fact............You know as well as I that if you repeat a "story" often enough whether true or false eventually people will accept it as fact.........usually without any further examination and especially if the "story" comes from what appears to be a respectable source.
History is replete with these types of scenarios. Obviously Kobe has changed.....that's a natural progression.........but to leap to the conclusion that Kobe's growth is the essence of the Lakers growth this year is ludicrous.
Kobe's growth is small compared to the leap in talent that now surrounds him. The media has portrayed Kobe in a selfish light for so long people are just fixated looking for anything to support that "story". I have said before that at the root of nearly every negative basketball perception of Kobe......somewhere you will find a quote from Phil Jackson.
His influence with the media has been immense with the portraying of Kobe........and he still does it ......however very subtle.
I am not upset I just think any objective look into Kobe's career one will not find a selfish individual but one who is driven to perfection.........which in my opinion is very admirable and should be lauded as opposed to demonized.
That's just my opinion
Posted by: pfunk36 | May 02, 2008 at 09:02 AM
Good Morning, Laker Nation!
You'll have to forgive me. I'm losing my mind. Despite the fact that I've set all my clocks and calendars to Sunday, I'm struggling with the overwhelming suspicion that it is not Sunday, but some other day.
I keep scrolling, over and over and over and over and over again, through key television channels, but the Lakers game is not on.
It's Sunday, right? Someone please tell me it's Sunday and that Bynum and Ariza have been approved to play!
ARGHE:DLKJNAER:FOIJM:SOJA:GH!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | May 02, 2008 at 09:07 AM
giantsquid
I got your back man...
Posted by: Charles | May 02, 2008 at 09:07 AM
Mamba, being new to the blog, I am amazed that you put the time into posting like you do. Do not do the lists for me. I like them, but they have to take up a lot of time. Just don't stop posting. That would be a loss. I will be praying for the issues that you brought up. God bless you.
Mark
Posted by: MarkkytheArky | May 02, 2008 at 09:10 AM
Jon K,
Sorry brother. If the Rockets win, it's going to be tuesday.
Posted by: Charles | May 02, 2008 at 09:18 AM
"It's the triangle offense, now available in version 3.0."
Love that quote!
Posted by: Charles | May 02, 2008 at 09:19 AM
Mamba24:
justanotherlmambafan said what I wanted to say almost perfectly. I only want to add one thing to what justa had to say, and that is that when we find ourselves overwhelmed by events in our lives, it is always important to rely on family and friends to help us through the difficult times. I am like justa, not having posted here for long, but in the time I have been here lurking, then posting, you are the largest part of the reason I began to, and now continue to post here. You have brought so much to my experience here that I cannot begin to express my gratitude and debt. If you look to the blog as part of your "family" , as you have worked tirelessly to bring that aspect to the blog, and can accept that you have made many friends here through your efforts, please do not discount the strength and help that staying in touch with your family and friends can bring you in your time of need. We in Laker Nation will always be here for you Larry, never forget or discount that. May you find peace and harmony in your life, and return revitalized to the Laker Nation. You will be in our hearts and minds every day.
Posted by: toad | May 02, 2008 at 09:22 AM
Pfunk
I think that there are basically two issues being addressed by you and BK: 1) has Kobe suddenly become more trusting of his teammates and less selfish; and 2) have Kobe's leadership skills improved.
Personally, I think that the Kobe's play during the first two year of PJ's second tenure might be considered selfish based on his shot to assist ratios, which were sky high compared to previous seasons. On the other hand, Phil was urging Kobe to take games over at times. It was what was best for the team. So maybe he wasn't being so selfish.
In terms of his leadership skills, of course they've improved. No doubt about. His life experience has played a role in that, but the very fact that he has that experience, much more than other players on the team, has also offered him the opportunity to reveal and develop those skills. He certainly wasn't afforded that opportunity during Phil's first tour here so those skills were somewhat underdeveloped when Shaq left the team. He really was at sea. But Kobe has improved as a leader over the last four years and this year was a break out year in terms of his leadership. I think that has as much to do with the fact that he's happy with the teams play as anything else.
So has Kobe been selfish in the past. I don't see it. Has his leadership improved dramatically recently. Of course it has.
Posted by: giantsquid | May 02, 2008 at 09:24 AM
Mamba24's haters can still continue to BITE ME - EVERY SINGLE DAY until he comes back.
Posted by: justanothermambafan | May 02, 2008 at 09:39 AM
Toad - amen brother....
Posted by: justanothermambafan | May 02, 2008 at 09:40 AM
AK/BK,
Say three "Hail Kobe's" and all will be forgiven.
Posted by: Xodus | May 02, 2008 at 09:41 AM
Bynum coming back this season doesn't look very likely. At least according to his sources.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8526
Posted by: Xodus | May 02, 2008 at 09:43 AM
Hey, Larry, welcome home!
For love of yourself, man, take all the time you need. Need a Vacation? Man, you deserve it. One of our first exchanges was a right around the time of your mom's passing and I could empathise how it was weighing on you then and I can empathise how it is weighing on you now.
Sometimes you just need time. And when you are dealing with heavy emotions, you never know what will be the match that lights the fire.
Just know that you are both loved and respected. (My apologies to those who recoil from words of a touchy-feely nature, but no man is an island, people.)
Any mother would be lucky to have you as a son and any blog would be lucky to have you as a poster.
GREAT to see you here today.
Posted by: Jesterguru | May 02, 2008 at 09:44 AM
pfunk - Kobe's selfish.
giantsquid - No he's not.
pfunk - Yes he is.
giantsquid - No he's not.
pfunk - Yes he is.
giantsquid - No he's not.
ad nauseum...............LOL!
Is Kobe selfish? He might be......then again maybe not. Depends on how you define selfish. Did he trust himself in the past more than his teammates? YES. Did he have reason to? YES. Did he do what PJ wanted him to do? YES. Did he do anything/everything it took to try & win? YES. Does that mean he's selfish? Sure if you want to define it that way, but sounds to me like the guy just wanted to win, did what it took & worked with what he had to the best of his ability. And since his ability WAAAYYY outmatched those of his teammates in the past, the best way to win was do as much as he could himself within the context of what PJ wanted him to do. If that's selfish - then I guess I'll take that every day, day in day out & twice on Sunday.
Posted by: justanothermambafan | May 02, 2008 at 09:45 AM
toad... well said!!!
Posted by: keifo | May 02, 2008 at 09:47 AM
pfunk-
They're not based on your facts, but the perceptions of those who have played with and against Kobe for years. I don't think that everyone who points this out has somehow been blinded by Phil Jackson.
Now I do agree with some of your other points. First, I think those who have called Kobe selfish in the sense that he's driven by stats as opposed to winning are wrong, and have been. The question has always been in the "how," whether he was surrounded by the talent of the threepeat squads or the groups of the last couple years, or this team. My point is that over the last couple of seasons, Kobe has learned to better use his own talents in combination with those around him, and the balance between imposing his will on a game through shot making and the other options before him, be it with last season's less talented group or this year's with more. Leading rather than pulling.
It's a question of growth as a leader and a player, not of a conversion from being a stats-first, numbers over championship guy to one only concerned about rings. I don't believe that, and have defended Kobe against that charge. You and I both seem to agree that he's evolved in a positive sense. That's basically all I'm saying. His goal has always been to win, but he a) hasn't always had the horses around him to make it happen, and b) hasn't necessarily known the best way to get there.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 02, 2008 at 09:48 AM
justanothermambafan,
"Did he do anything/everything it took to try & win? YES"
I disagree with that. Has he always tried his hardest to win? Absolutely.
Has he always done "whatever it takes" to win? Not always. He has not always subordinated his individual game to the team game as well as he could have. That has rarely been the case this season, although it did occasionally happen.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 02, 2008 at 09:53 AM
hmmmm....
justanotherfan
I think you should reread pfunk's posts.
It's more like
pfunk - Kobe's NOT selfish
giantsquid - that's right!
pfunk - Kobe's NOT selfish
giantsquid - that's right
justanothermambafan - I'm not sure, next question please.
Posted by: giantsquid | May 02, 2008 at 09:58 AM
Edwin,
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I don't even know where to start? I am a long time visitor, but have only posted on a couple of occasions as I don't find it necessary to repeat what others have already said.
Laker Truth: See if I ever agree with you again. LOL
I guess first, who said anything even remotely hateful towords Mamba24? I didn't see one single hateful post. I always found his cheerleading funny and even enjoyed it on gameday. Is pointing out that his post are long and usually devoid of original content hateful? I don't see how. Did ANYONE say that mamba24 should stop posting? NOPE!
One of you even pulled out the "NAZI" card. What is up with that? Now that is getting towards hate.
I must admit I found the hysteria kinda funny. One person says someone posted hate, and 20 people say, stop it!
Stop what??? They must not have bothered to read the thread for themselves to find out that actually nothing hateful was said.
The word lemmings comes to mind.
Anyway......I'm rooting for the Jazz tonight so we can get a game Sunday and move past this nonsense to the much more important business of getting to the Spurs or Hornets in the WC finals.
Mamba24: I wish you comfort during your time of pain and trouble. I know we'll see you again.
Regards to all.
Posted by: Andy | May 02, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Ex,
We all know you despise Kobe, there's no need to reiterate that.
Posted by: Xodus | May 02, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Pincus on Bynum
I'm surprised no one has commented on the Pincus article concerning Bynum's status. It looks very doubtful that Drew will play in the playoffs this year. Not to worry, the Lakers will still prevail.
Posted by: giantsquid | May 02, 2008 at 10:03 AM
keifo, justa..........thanks, but it had to be said. Yesterday and today are dark days for the blog.
Posted by: toad | May 02, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Xodus,
I just didn't want anybody to forget! This way, they will always remember to use the "Oh, that's right, he hates Kobe!" filter when they read my posts.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 02, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Mamba24 -- Take your time brotha -- just pop in once in a while and give this blog your energy. You are the energetic epicenter of this blog -- and no one can deny your influence. If I was a systems analyst, I'd throw my damn computer out the window. Anyway we all have our cross to bear.
Is this what we get for being the only team to sweep in the first round? We are cursed with the depressing malaise of debating "selfish". Answer me David Stern ... ANSWER ME. hahaha
I don't give a flying fudge nugget about what is "selfish" -- Just Win Baby! ... Just Win.
Re Bynum: I’ve been on record as saying, I don’t think we can win the prize without the Beast – I hope I’m dead wrong.
I’ll be spending an hour or so this weekend tabulating the results of the first annual "Win Nothing but Respect from Laker Nation Predictathon."
Posted by: HmrHed | May 02, 2008 at 10:10 AM
giantsquid,
I have already set in my mind that AB will be playing next season. If he does play this season, it would be a huge surprise. I say if the training staff and doctor's feel it would benefit him to have surgery, do it. All Laker hope and PR-Marketing ventures aside.
Posted by: Charles | May 02, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Mamba24,
I appreciate your enthusiasm and your dedication to the blog. Just thought you should know.
The roll call is AWESOME.
Go Lake Show!
Posted by: The Outlaw | May 02, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Mamba24's Haters can BITE ME list:
1. Justanothermambafan
2. SBPimp
3. Benjamim
4. Toad
5. coolhair
6. Pig Miller
7. utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER
8. HmrHed
9. ajax
10. giantsquid
11. Glen
12. LakerTom
13. Mamba24Fan4Life
14. Edwin Gueco
15. HoustonLakerGirl
16. Kobesbad
17. Charles
18. Happy Camper
19. SamLL
20. Vman
21. #4
22. Nemaia Faletogo
23. MarkytheArky
24. JohnnyP
25. complexbrotha
26. Caliphilosopher
27. Bzar
.
.
.
47. MiloRambaldi--for those who read backwards....EMETIB
48. Faith
49. Michigan Lake
I won't add my name to this list (but I will respect it by copy and pasting) Personally I could care less wether he post..shows up..or or even reading his bandwagons..but for the love of gawd Mamba..please..show up man so this blog can get over your absence..that way I can read everys intelligent opinions about the Lake show instead of post after post of "Whaaa why isn't he here..oh my gawd my day just aint the same unless he writed something"
Your Friend
Lakeraholic
Posted by: lakeraholic | May 02, 2008 at 10:22 AM