Fish on Kobe | Lakers Blog | Los Angeles Times

Fish on Kobe

With their second-round opponent still yet to be determined, it was again a relatively low-key day in El Segundo on Thursday afternoon. Not much playoff action to discuss, but with hardware soon to be awarded, Kobe's MVP candidacy was on the mind of many writers. I had an interesting exchange with Derek Fisher, who is always candid and open with his opinion. He had been talking about how Kobe has met that nebulous criteria this season of "making his teammates better," and that you could see it not only in the performance of his teammates, but the record of the team as well. Yes, they've improved individually, but Kobe's play has been a part of that, especially as it bears on team success. Call it a symbiotic relationship. Like the shark and remora.

BK: It's always a chicken and egg sort of question. Is a guy trusting his teammates because they're playing better, or are they playing better because he's trusting them more? How does that work, especially with Kobe? Guys have stepped up this year, but it seems like he's changed what he's done.

Fisher: I think it is kind of a question mark in terms of which one comes first. I love to use football analogies. If I were Tom Brady or Tony Romo, and I threw the ball to a guy and he consistently dropped the ball, I would be a little hesitant to throw it to him in certain situations. So I think that happens. But if I'm throwing him the ball and he's consistently catching it when we need to catch it, then I'm going to be more confident in third-down situations or whatever, to throw him the ball. They feed off of each other. As many of our young guys that came back improved, and better than they were the year before - significantly - his trust grew immediately, right away, early in the season. Then it just continued to grow as the season moved on as different guys at different times showed an ability to really help our team.

BK: Could you see that happen? You've got a good perspective, having played with him before and now again.

Fisher: I think he's always gone through times when he's done it too much (trying to distribute), and not being the aggressive Kobe that he needs to be in order for everybody else to know where to fit in. He's been criticized for that at times, where he didn't do enough. And there's been times where he felt like, okay, he's not sensing that everyone else is at a level where they need to be, so then he'll try to do too much. But this year, it just seems, other than maybe two or three games where he felt like he had to score 45 or 50 or whatever, outside of those two or three games it seems like he's just been in a nice consistent pace, where he's picked and chosen a particular quarter to assert himself, to score 15 or 18 points in a quarter, but over the balance of the game he hasn't put himself in a position where it has to be him.

He's trusted me making big shots, he's trusted Gasol making plays down the stretch, he's trusted Lamar Odom, Farmar, Sasha, Ronny. Everybody that's been in the game. Luke hit a big shot off a penetration and kick in Denver (at the end of Game 4). I think he's done a great job of keeping that balance.

BK: And teams know it's there (the ability to do either).

Fisher: I think teams have known it was there, I think, for a long time. At times, even with our teams in the past, that was really Shaq's so-called complaint. Was that we have arguably the most talent in the league, so let's do this thing together. Now, I think with the team that's constructed now, people are seeing the talent that we have, and it's kind of scary because of how young the talent is. To think that if we're able to manage our way through this particular postseason and come up with what we need to become champions right now, then to think about how good our future could be if we just continue to trust in each other and believe in each other and get better every year? That's exciting as well.

Right now, we're just waiting on who we'll see to take that next step.

In other news, I managed to get a quick word in with Brian Shaw, who like fellow Laker assistants Jim Cleamons and Kurt Rambis, has found his name bandied about in the coaching rumors. Recent news has put guys like Avery Johnson and Mike D'Antoni in the spotlight, but among the ranks of assistant coaches, guys like Shaw are held in high regard. What they aren't, though, is presently available to interview. A nice change from the past three seasons when Laker coaches had more vacation time, but still a potential crimp in the quest to move up the food chain.

Shaw said it's something he can't worry about.

"For me personally, I block all that stuff out. It all works itself out the way it's supposed to work itself out. If something's going to be available to maybe move up, I just believe it will be there. Teams that are really serious about doing stuff know that teams that go deep into the playoffs may have people on the staff that they may need to take a look at. So you have to let that process happen. It's all going to end before the draft anyway. Most teams want a coach in place before the draft, and if you go all the way to the Finals and go seven games, it'll still end a week before the draft. You can't get caught up in thinking about it."

"It's nice to hear your name pop up, but you can't caught up in that. If you get a call and it happens, then great. If not, then you just keep working and keep concentrating."

Not much from PJ today, though he did have some complimentary words for the toughness shown by Vladdy in Game 4, and the small forward position in general. I asked him how improved play there, be it from Radmanovic, Walton, or both, helps the team, and the answer comes in flexibility. To cover shortcomings at small forward during the regular season, PJ often had to use Kobe there. When there's production from that spot, Jackson can still slide Kobe down, but he doesn't have to. As is the case with so many things about the Lakers, it plays into their ability to put a wide variety of lineups on the floor to suit any given situation.

Other topics- staying sharp despite the layoff, familiarity with both opponents and scouting how to stop them, and bench play.

AUDIO:

Jackson: Download phil_jackson_5.2.mp3

We'll stick this in tomorrow's news post as well, but the LAT's Jonathan Abrams filed an interesting piece about the triangle offense, how it works, how the Lakers have run it, and how Pau's presence has impacted it.

Working on getting the video from today up as well.

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Comments

AK,

I agree, you can definitely make an argument Duncan has had a better career than Shaq.

I always put it like this. If I want one of the two for just one season, give me Shaq (preferably in his 2000 form). If I want a guy for a career I want Duncan.

Posted by: Xodus | May 01, 2008 at 06:32 PM

This whole chicken and egg thing can be answered by one question...

How would you feel passing to (and still have to by the way) to Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook?

Valiant warriors as they were for us lol.

Posted by: Faith | May 01, 2008 at 06:48 PM

My critics will be glad to hear that today was my first day for therapy and I can't wait till the Lakers play again!

P.S Therapy is cheaper than gas! hahaha!

Posted by: chuck23 | May 01, 2008 at 06:59 PM

Shaq vs. Duncan

My question is: If Shaq had been in SA and Duncan in LA during Jackson's first tenure in LA which team would have been winning the championships. My money would have been on the Lakers. Duncan always comes into the season in shape; Duncan is the ultimate teammate - Shaq the ultimate presence; Duncan is as unselfish as Shaq was selfish (at least as selfish as Kobe ever was); Duncan would have been a better fit for the triangle; and Duncan's personality is more conducive to peace in the locker room. Finally, as AK stated previously, there are no real holes in Duncan's game: great fundamentals, great defender, excellent passer, etc.

Posted by: giantsquid | May 01, 2008 at 07:14 PM

Love Fisher's football analogy.

Keep up the great work Kam Brothers!

Posted by: Brandon Hoffman | May 01, 2008 at 07:26 PM

BK,

“Now, I think with the team that's constructed now, people are seeing the talent that we have, and it's kind of scary because of how young the talent is. To think that if we're able to manage our way through this particular postseason and come up with what we need to become champions right now, then to think about how good our future could be if we just continue to trust in each other and believe in each other and get better every year? That's exciting as well. Right now, we're just waiting on who we'll see to take that next step.”

Great interview with Fish. What an impressive man. We are blessed to have him return to the Lakers. He and Pau have filled the horrible void that Smush and Kwame created to help make us a championship caliber team. It is so encouraging to hear a grizzled vet like Fish has exactly the same awe about the potential of this team as Lakers Blog’s fans do. Like Kobe, I have nothing but good expectations when Derek goes up for a shot that it is going down. Just as I expect Pau and Drew to catch every pass thrown into the post.

As I have said many times, we all know what Kobe really meant when he said he now has guys who can catch the ball and finish. Most of us on the blog felt that getting Derek was a double win because it also meant losing Smush. Same with getting Pau and losing Kwame. Double impact moves for sure.

So Derek says the Lakers are just waiting to see who is going to take the next step? Right now it looks as if it was Luke Walton who decided to meet that challenge. Is Trevor Ariza next? Who would you and AK pick? Vlade?

On an aside, ex and I earlier agreed that the Lakers have 12 players who are currently playing the best basketball of their careers: Kobe, Drew, Pau, Lamar, Luke, Jordan, Sasha, Ronny, Coby, DJ, Derek, and Trevor. Would you and AK agree or disagree with that statement and have you ever seen an NBA team with so many players peaking. Thx.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | May 01, 2008 at 07:33 PM

Good question. I should probably retract that comment as I do respect Tim's game as well as his anti-superstar attitude. He is a great teammate and a proven champion so that should have been enough for me to NOT put him into the same category as some of the other players, like Barkley and Malone and Barry who had more talent.

Bottom line, I just never felt that Tim’s individual game was on the same level as other great power forwards. For sure, he doesn’t belong in the group of true franchise players that I was talking about – Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell, Walton, Oscar, Kobe, or MJ – but your point comparing him to Shaq is valid.

After responding to your post, I would have no problem taking Shaq off my list just because of his work ethic (although then I would have to address that issue with Wilt, which I just cannot do out of blind loyalty) but I still don’ t consider Tim a great enough player to be on that list. Nor do I think that KG or LeBron have proved themselves either, although both have a lot of time in which to change my mind.

Therefore, my new true franchise player list is now down to Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell, Walton, Oscar, Kobe, or MJ. I cannot think of any player who I would take over any of these 9, although I am open for suggestions to bring the list to a more orderly 10. OK, I’ll add Andrew Bynum to the list since he is the player that I think has the most potential to eventually join that list. I know. I know. But in another 10 years, I believe I will be proved correct.

LAKERTOM’S FAB 10
---------------------
THE ULTIMATE TOP 10
FRANCHISE PLAYER LIST
-----------------------
Guys you wouldn’t trade
for anybody not on the list
-----------------------
Magic Johnson
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Hakeem Olajuwon
Bill Russell
Bill Walton
Oscar Robertson
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Andrew Bynum (Future Pick)
-----------------
JMHO,

Of course, I am not surprised that there are 5 Lakers on my list and only 2 Celtics. LOL. But then I’m just a fan, not a journalist. So who’s on your Fab10 list, Andy, anybody?

Posted by: LakerTom | May 01, 2008 at 07:40 PM

KAM Bros,
Do you guys know what feedback the Laker players have on your blog and do you know if any of them read it? Keep up the great work.

Colorado loves the Lakers!

Posted by: Hugo Boss | May 01, 2008 at 07:52 PM

For a second I thought that was the most ridiculous statement I had ever heard. Then I though about it and you may be right. Crazy!!!! Maybe not Jordan, but everyone else in my opinion makes sense. CRAZY I TELL YOU CRAZY!!!!!

Posted by: pslakerfan | May 01, 2008 at 08:03 PM

LOL chuck23. Way to take comments in stride. :)

Posted by: Benjamin | May 01, 2008 at 08:04 PM

Why try to complicate an obvious point? The man himself (Kobe) has stated it. Fisher backs it up. It is the quality of teammates that you have. Case in point, how is Nash doing now? Nada.

This "making his teammates better" was a fraud perpetrated by the MVP voters as a reason not to vote for Kobe. As biased as I am being a big fan of Kobe, the voting writers were just dishonest.

Hopefully, Kobe get his overdue award this time. Otherwise, as some posters say, No Peace.

Posted by: Lakergurl | May 01, 2008 at 08:05 PM

Laker Tom,

I also think playing for 4 different teams diminishes the Franchise player moniker, but that is JMO......I think that pushes Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Olajuwon, Russell to a slightly higher level.....again JMO..

Posted by: pslakerfan | May 01, 2008 at 08:08 PM

hugo boss-

We actually make it a point not to ask, though I think at this point everyone knows what we do. "Those brothers who write the blog," or something like that.

Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 01, 2008 at 08:17 PM

Are you being obtuse when you compare Kobe's trusting his teammates with the chicken and the egg theory?

If you were worth Millions (and you might be) and your decision to marry a women was based on whether or not you could trust her..............Would you go blindly into the marriage or would you examine her BEHAVIOR over a period of time.......as it relates to your criteria of trustworthiness?

Answer that question honestly and that should answer your Kobe question and the chicken and the egg theory.

Trust is a principal that trancends any discipline........... and Trustworthiness is ALWAYS predicated on performance over a period of time or a consistent track record.......is that right?

If you were an employer looking for a CFO to run your Finance department would you trust anyone with that responsibility? Would that be wise? Or would you insist on the HR department to vigorously examine past perfomance i.e resume of the applicant?

Even if the applicant had an acceptable resume you wouldn't just hand him the keys to the finances.........you would start with a little responsibility given to that person and then add to it based on the perfomance or trustworthiness of that individual..........that's the American way.

This is why we have Fico and paydex scores to determine your track record when accessing capital............other-wise anybody could go into a bank and get a loan........is that right?

The only place this simple concept becomes a riddle in a puzzle wrapped in an enigma is when it concerns Kobe Bryant and the bums he played with the previous two years.....

I looked at the video yesterday with Phil Jackson responding to Micheal Wilbon on PTI. Wilbon asked Phil a straight forward question about the Lakers improvement and Kobe trusting them.

Phil never did give his opinion, he just offered Kobe's argument that he finally had a point guard that could hit a shot in Fisher and a 3-point threat in Radmanovich and a slasher in Odom and a center that could catch and finish like Gasol/Bynum..........Kobe said he didn't have that before. This concept is consistent with the above concepts for developing trust........regardless of the discipline

Why does Phil or the media offer a different scenario to this concept which is etched in stone?

Phil does it to cover his azz. In Phil's book he labled Kobe "uncoachable" and said his legacy would be that of a "callous gun for hire"...............This Year Kobe is the favorite to win the MVP after leading the Lakers to the best record in the NBA..............If Kobe hasn't changed........then what has?

Maybe Phil's ego will not allow him to say that he has had to make an adjustment in his attitude and maybe the front office had to change and add better players

That being the case I understand Phil's perceived quandry...............but for the life of me BK...........I don't understand yours.

Can you help me?

Posted by: pfunk36 | May 01, 2008 at 08:19 PM

K-Bros,

I know this is not a popular opinion, but I do think Duncan is overrated. Bear in mind overrated is a very tricky term. If he is considered a 99 out of 100 and he is really a 98, then technically he is overrated. I think he is great, but not quite as good as people make him out to be.... JMO...

Posted by: pslakerfan | May 01, 2008 at 08:21 PM

Just got home by the way, what is going on with Mamba 24? Is he gone?

pslakerfan

Posted by: pslakerfan | May 01, 2008 at 08:22 PM

I saw this at the Sun-Sentinel, Miami

Riley should be Exec of the Year - Hands down. Maybe exec of the decade,

Anybody who can sucker someone to take an aging Shaq and his 20 mil contract

And....

A. Walkers in the same year

Has to get at least some award.

Posted by: Fairweather Fatty | May 01, 2008 at 08:28 PM

When will the official MVP be announced anyway?

Posted by: KB8th Wonder | May 01, 2008 at 08:30 PM

If Duncan had been switched with Shaq 10 years ago, the Lakers would be going for the 10-peat right now. I would definitely pick Duncan over Shaq.

Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 01, 2008 at 08:31 PM

Posted by: pslakerfan | May 01, 2008 at 08:32 PM

pslakersfan,

It is crazy how many Lakers are playing at their best right now, even if you disagree on one of two. I originally had 13 with Vlade but ex pointed out that he is just playing his best as a Laker right now, not in his career. I was stunned when I made the list.

I do agree with you that one uniform makes a big difference but for Wilt, I make an exception since he is why I am a Lakers fan today. I also do think Duncan is underrated by me as the result of having been a Laker foe all these years. I know I have downgraded KG recently for the same reason, although I have always thought he played too far for the rim for a guy his size. Sure glad we never traded Drew. Had the blog known how hard he was working during the summer, I doubt any of us would have wanted to trade for KG.

Anyway, as Fish said, we got a real shot at winning this year and for many more years to come. Nice to see the Lakers believe the same as the Blog. Resistance is futile. Like keeping cool in those PS summers. There used to be a small white building motel resort on an off street as you first headed into town where my wife and I always spent a week every year at in PS. I can’t remember the name and it may well now be gone. It was famous for the Hollywood set in a much earlier era but I still remember the tuxedoed waiter and cold tequila drinks by the pool and watching a Lakers game one spring. Not a bad way to spend a Sunday afternoon. Only problem was that was a year we lost.

Posted by: LakerTom | May 01, 2008 at 08:38 PM

"Those brothers who write the blog" could be misleading, heheh.

No follow up as to why Fish thinks Kobe didn't play that way on the last year of the Shaq-Malone-Payton team? Did he think the others couldn't step up then,too? Seems like Fish gave that opening by referring to Shaq's "so-called complaint". As the resident Kobe Apologist, his performance in the 2004 Finals is the one thing I have difficulty defend. Everything else I can explain away. I usually say something about how Shaq's alienation caused him to play like that ... or something.

Posted by: Amazing_Happens | May 01, 2008 at 08:41 PM

BK
Thanks for the info. My guess is that they occasionally take a peek, maybe more often than not.

CLTL!

Posted by: Hugo Boss | May 01, 2008 at 08:44 PM

Ten

Magic
MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Robertson
Hakeem
Dr J
Bird
Duncan

Posted by: giantsquid | May 01, 2008 at 08:47 PM

The Whole concept of "Making Others Better players" is a Bonogne created by media.

How can you make a foolish players better players? like kwame, smush, cook etc..

every one is a mature adult in professional teams. Kobe was surrouded with foolish adults who dont have commen sense in the first place. How can people expect him to make them better? foolish thought...

this is how kobe made this team better. He forced/blackmailed to get better players or he would leave. We got Ariza,Pau and thats sufficient to change the team dynamics. Now kobe made others better all of a sudden?

Posted by: Disgruntled,Frustrated Laker Fan | May 01, 2008 at 08:53 PM

I love Fisher even since he came to the Lakers as a rookie! i call him my bulldog because he is so tough yet a gentleman! And i was so sad when he left for free agency and then i was ecstatic when he came back this season! He's the man, a Laker for life! Love yah bulldog!!

Posted by: hyacinth | May 01, 2008 at 09:01 PM

Just got home by the way, what is going on with Mamba 24? Is he gone?
Posted by: pslakerfan
_______________________________

pslakerfan - today was a sad day for the blog. There were certain posters (I can't bring myself to name them in print - you'll have to check back on the previous thread) who have taken it upon themselves to advise Mamba24 that his roll call, honoree of the day and other such posts were too long and they were having a very difficult time disregarding them by scrolling past them. Apparently it was just not something they wanted to have to do, and so advised Mamba24 to cut it out. Mamba24 decided that if that was the feeling of the blog, then he would. We think he took it a little too personally and have been trying to convince him that the VAST majority of the blog not only looks forward to his posts with anticipation, but that they actually make our day & keep us excited about the games ahead. So - in response to these HATERS, we decided to create the following pseudo-bandwagon (I can't bring myself to actually name it a bandwagon - we just call it a list):

Mamba24's Haters can BITE ME list:

1. Justanothermambafan
2. SBPimp
3. Benjamim
4. Toad
5. coolhair
6. Pig Miller
7. utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER
8. HmrHed
9. ajax
10. giantsquid
11. Glen
12. LakerTom
13. Mamba24Fan4Life
14. Edwin Gueco
15. HoustonLakerGirl
16. Kobesbad
17. Charles
18. Happy Camper
19. SamLL
20. Vman
21. #4
22. Nemaia Faletogo
23. MarkytheArky
24. JohnnyP
25. complexbrotha
26. Caliphilosopher
27. Bzar

If you agree with the sentiment, just CUT/PASTE & add your name to the bottom of the list.

Hopefully, the length of MY post will now be a thorn in the side of all the haters for one thing, and also that Mamba24 will see the loyalty and appreciation the blog has for his outstanding contribution to the life and feel of this award-winning Laker Nation blog.

GO LAKERS!

COME BACK MAMBA24!!!!!!!

Posted by: justanothermambafan | May 01, 2008 at 09:11 PM

Re: the whole "making his teammates better" argument

Isn't it a fact that most of the players that we had here over the past 3 seasons
(before this season) had statistically one of the best seasons of their career?
(Smush, Kwame, Cook) I mean these are guys that have trouble making it off
the bench on other teams and Kobe got stuck with them in the starting lineup.

You can polish a penny, make it shiny and bright, but in the end, it's still a penny.

Kobe's polishing up silver dollars now!

Posted by: Bzar | May 01, 2008 at 09:29 PM

if shaq gave way to kobe, just like td (duncan) gave way to tp (parker), just like dr (robinson) to td, i don't think lakers dynasty will end in 2003, maybe at least 6 championshps.... but shaq is shaq, he wants to have the last say, until he can't say anymore...

Lakers did the right thing, dispatch him and get the next 5 or 6 championships with kobe and the rest of the guys now...

Posted by: edodgreat | May 01, 2008 at 09:55 PM

Dan Patrick on 570AM talked about Duncan had a better career than Shaq, Dan also said Shaq had gold medal and Duncan had bronze medal in Olympic, he was wrong, Shaq had better career than Duncan, Shaq won 3 championships in a row, can Duncan do that ? When Shaq was young, you can't compare Duncan to him, no way, people forgot that when Shaq was young, he did not have a good championship coach, some guys they talk about sports eveyday on radio, TV, but it doesn't mean they are right.

Posted by: bluesky | May 01, 2008 at 10:01 PM

MASH, FOR NOW CANNOT MAKE SHAQ AND GRANT HILL BETTER. THIS PROVES THAT MAKING TEAMMATE BETTER IS NOT TRUE....

TO HELL WITH THAT THEORY.

Posted by: edodgreat | May 01, 2008 at 10:02 PM

Tom,

Would you trade for Larry Bird or Jerry West?

Posted by: Robyn | May 01, 2008 at 10:06 PM

If you agree with the sentiment, just CUT/PASTE & add it to the bottom of the list.

COME BACK MAMBA24!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MiloRambaldi | May 01, 2008 at 10:21 PM

Posted by: pslakerfan | May 01, 2008 at 10:28 PM

D-Fish left something important out in his interview.

It's HIM that has made the profound difference this year. Someone Kobe knew and trusted who could not only make the 3's and be a floor leader, but also be a steadying influence both on and off the court. Bynum's maturing and the aquisition of Pau are huge, but the difference Fish made on Kobe's game and attitude was the foundation.

Now can the Jazz knock off those pesky Rockets so we can start having actual GAMES to talk about again????

Posted by: Jay Jay | May 01, 2008 at 10:36 PM

List making is fun and I like your franchise player list so I'm gonna riff on it.

Before I start, I gotta say I agree with AK on Tim Duncan. Dude is the best, most complete PF of all time. His biggest weakness (Tom, honestly, for all your usual good analysis, you still didn't name a weakness in Duncan's game in your response) is FT shooting. And he's way better than Shaq there.

That said, I hate watching his boring, whiny ass play.

I can't comment on players I never saw, so I will limit my franchise players list to guys who were still playing in 1980 or later. Must have won a title. It'll look similar to yours at the top.

1. Magic
2. MJ
3. Cap
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Kobe
9. Julius Erving
10. Isaiah (Just don't let him BUILD the franchise)

Posted by: Jesterguru | May 01, 2008 at 10:44 PM

Posted by: Faith | May 01, 2008 at 11:16 PM

pfunk-

That's actually the point of the question. So much attention is given to the idea of "making teammates better," something I have said before on the site that I believe is overused, at least in the sense that in the NBA, no matter how good you might be individually, a player still needs talent around him to win. But that doesn't mean said star doesn't influence the play of those around him. How do you balance the two?

I believe, as I've written countless times, that last season Kobe began a process of realizing that his excellence could only lead the team so far, and that he had to at the same time do what he could to put his teammates in the best position to succeed, and in their combined success the team would thrive. That, as much as anything, is why the team played so well through 40 games last year. Injuries scuttled that process.

This year, with a team that continued to grow, Kobe continued to grow with them as a leader, finding that balance between dominating games when necessary and playing in a way that let the guys around him thrive. Obviously it helps that they got better individually, and that the team brought in better pieces. But if Kobe didn't reach that level of maturity, the team wouldn't be as successful.

Your problem with the idea that Kobe has changed and grown is that it implies that he was imperfect as a player before this year (or, in my interpretation of things, two years ago). That as good as he was, there were flaws in his game, his leadership skills, and ability to truly lead a team. Most people have recognized growth in him as a leader and a player. Fish has said it, Brian Shaw has said it, other coaches and players have said it. Only people like yourself who hate the idea that Kobe had room to grow can't accept it. Why, I have no idea. You wouldn't expect him to be the same player and teammate now as he was when he was 23, 24, 25 years old.

He was an amazing player before. Now he's even better. Explain to me the problem with that?

Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | May 01, 2008 at 11:18 PM

Because of all the general hating of TJ Simers on this blog, I had to check out what exactly y'all were getting at.

Having read his latest entry from April 29th, I see exactly what you mean.

In a nutshell and in general order, he knocks:
> the team as a whole
> Pat Riley
> the referees for calling phantom fouls on the Nugs
> again the refs for a bad call that went in favor of Kobe
> Vlad Rad 1 for 7 shooting
> the defense the Lakers are playing
> Vlad Rad's shooting % now at 11%
> Vlad one more time because hitting two baskets in a row qualifies as a "miracle"
> infers Pau is soft in the paint
> Kobe giving an assist to the Nugs
> Luke....no.....that's actually entirely positive. Sorry.
His quote of "LukeWalton nails a three," is practically the only good remark he made.
And to think this poor, downtrodden, schmuck of a team actually won the game and series.

Just a quick read gives me 10 instances your LA Times columnist knocks the team that helps put food on his table.
Someone should do him and the rest of the blog here a big favor and submit Simers' resumé to the Arizona Republic or some other rag. Better yet, why not The Nome Nugget - 'Alaska's Oldest Newspaper'.

I can't call him a homer. How about a homeless-er?

Posted by: MiloRambaldi | May 01, 2008 at 11:37 PM

From a logical analytical Germanic point of view, perfect response to pfunk BK! Germany loves the LAKERS!

Posted by: Franz Ellers | May 01, 2008 at 11:48 PM

To all those lazy haters who can't scroll past a long post...

How about I use MY MIDDLE FINGER to scroll your mouse!

Posted by: Happy Gilmore | May 02, 2008 at 12:28 AM

"I agree, you can definitely make an argument Duncan has had a better career than Shaq.

I always put it like this. If I want one of the two for just one season, give me Shaq (preferably in his 2000 form). If I want a guy for a career I want Duncan."
-Xodus

Interesting when you consider personality...
If I want one of the two's personality one season, gimme Duncan. If I want a guy's personality for a career, I want Shaq.

Posted by: ajax | May 02, 2008 at 12:53 AM

BYNUM UPDATE (RUMOR??)

QUOTE:
In Laker news, about two weeks ago, I was in Los Angeles at a local watering hole having a drink, when I had a chance meeting with an old friend with deep ties within the Laker organization. The subject of Andrew Bynum came up and I was commenting on how good it would be to have him back on the Lakers for the play offs. Anyway, he turns around and says to me, “Andrew is fine, the Lakers are holding him back as a precaution.” Then he mentioned that he’ll definitely be back and that was the end of the conversation. Now that the first round is over for the Lakers, and the Rockets have extended their series with Utah, it gives the Lakers a couple of more days to rest and heal. I was under the impression that Andrew was done, especially after Phil Jackson’s “remote chance” comment, but might the Lakers be saving Andrew as a secret weapon?

Here's the link: http://mvn.com/nba-lakers/

Posted by: grail | May 02, 2008 at 01:38 AM

Posted by: Zin Master | May 02, 2008 at 02:23 AM

pfunk-
as always i enjoyed your point of view and the positive rhetoric. but then, as always, there's the little detail...PJ has already admitted that he realized that his perception of Kobe was colored by Phil's own personal feelings, not really Kobe's actions. PJ said that he eventually realized that he hadn't been fair to Kobe when he called him uncoachable. this is one possible reason why the two currently share a good relationship.

but more importantly-

the only thing that i haven't liked about the roll call is that i've been left off for the last month or two...

Posted by: man | May 02, 2008 at 02:48 AM

There you go again...........using quotes from other people to support your claim. Fish, Shaw, other players none of whom have ever been all-stars are delusional. When Shaw said this has been the year that Kobe has passed more or trusted his teammates is just Shaw's way of supporting "the Story" to curry favor from his superior.

When you examine the facts or stats of Kobe's they just do not support that theory. Kobe has averaged somewhere between 5 and 7 assists his entire career.

I think Kobe's immense talent brings about envy in those who do not accurately see their own shortcomings. Kobe is tantamount to a great musician like.........Prince.

Prince is the rare musician who plays multiple instruments.......well. In the studio when he has a band record if he doesn't like how the drummer, guitarist, keyboardist or any other musician is playing........he has the abiliity to play their part himself. This type of talent is embarrassing to some members in the band and keeps them on their toes about performing.

To some extent this describes Kobe's ability. Kobe unlike anybody in recent history has the talent to drop multiple 50 or 60 or 80 point games.............if other players on the team can't pull their own weight...........Or if surrounded by better talent he can be defensive player of the year to fit in as he did on the Olympic team this summer.

The only difference between the Olympic team and the Lakers teams was the talent level. Kobe made the adjustment based on the talent that CHANGED around him. Kobe can do everything on the floor depending on whats needed.

In the past Kobe was a convenient scapegoat for the lack of talent...........once that talent changed the performance changed thus Kobe adusted to that rise in talent.

It is really that simple

Posted by: pfunk36 | May 02, 2008 at 02:53 AM

Hating on Mamba24 is pretty low. I check in everyday, but rarely post and I look forward to the roll call. I have never felt the need to jump to anyone's defense on this blog, but the "haters" are so totally off base on this one it isn't even funny (or maybe it is...).

Posted by: C.S. | May 02, 2008 at 05:28 AM

Tom:
I respect your opinion and maybe I don't understand your criteria to be put on the franchise list but there is no way Bill Walton is on my list. He only had about 3 good years. How can your franchise player be injured all the time? Also a list without Elgin Baylor and Jerry West is crazy. Elgin and Jerry are the reason we even have a franchise in LA!! My list:

Magic
Michael Jordan
Wilt
Bill Russell
Jerry West
Kareem
Kobe
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Dr. J

I don't include George Mikan or Bob Cousy since I didn't see them play.

Posted by: rdlee | May 02, 2008 at 05:30 AM

Even though they won the same amount of championships and Oscar has some better numbers, back in the day most people would say Jerry West was better than the Big O. Jerry was such a clutch player and played in many more big games. He's the Logo after all. Oscar could never elevate his Cincinnati Royals teams (even with Jerry Lucas) the way West & Baylor did. The biggest surprise wasn't that West's teams lost 6 finals to the Celtics, it was that they made it so close so many times.

Posted by: rdlee | May 02, 2008 at 05:39 AM

I don't think you get the point. The media has portrayed Kobe as being a selfish player for years. Yet, if you examine his play objectively, he was actually less selfish during the years that Shaq played with the Lakers. As indicated, for instance, by his shot to assist ratios. That makes sense. He played with better players, so he shared the ball more. Of course, Kobe has matured. Of course, he's a better leader. However, in a sense, it's the coaches and players on the Lakers team during the Shaq era that retarded Kobe's growth. Tex Winter has indicated that Phil Jackson treated Kobe very poorly during those years. I know that many of the veterans treated him badly (with the exceptions of Brian Shaw, Ron Harper and Byron Scott). Partly it was their jealously: partly his cockiness. Shaq verbally and physically abused Kobe during practices on occasion. Not a lot of maturity was displayed by the veteran players on the team during that time, especially given their levels of experience and their ages. Kobe now has the complete backing of the coaching staff, he's not being stabbed the back by his teammates, and no one is making hand gestures signaling to his teammates to freeze him out. Other players on the team listen to his advise and of couse, Kobe is sharing again because he has better players to share the ball with. Yes, of course, Kobe has matured. Many players never do. Shaq coming into camp year after year in poor shape, that was mature? Shaq didn't begin to mature as a basketball player until his body began to brake down. So it isn't a matter of Kobe maturing: he is and good for him. It's that the media is treating this as some sort of miracle and among all the players in the league, he's the one who takes the most heat on this issue.

I'm not contradicting anything Fish said, but Fish while being honest Fish is also somewhat circumspect in what he says and the way he says it. Some players take criticism very poorly and others don't. Kobe does.

Posted by: giantsquid | May 02, 2008 at 06:25 AM

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