One more big trade, and the Western Conference gets a free latte
February 13, 2008 | 10:59
am
Looks like the Kidd-to-Dallas talks are heating up again, though Mark Cuban is quoted (at least here) as saying the price his team would have to pay would be too high.
These things are never done until they're done, but man alive, should this go down, the West will get a lot wilder. Though, depending on who they'd have to give up, it's questionable as to how much better Dallas would get. But fun trumps everything, and this would be fun!
BK
One thing I really love about these big trades is that they
shorten the window for the Lakers' competitors.
San Antonio is already looking a little older and slower this
season. They may have two more years in the limelight with
this group at most.
Now Phoenix has given away two players in their prime for
a much older player, thus shortenting their window
And Dallas might be giving away two young talents in
their system (Harris and Diop) for one much older player
who shortens their window.
In the mean time, the Lakers traded for a 22 year old and
a 27 year old. While Fisher may flame out before the rest
of the current core, I could see this group (if the Lakers can
keep them together) being a top contender for 8-10 years.
How long really mostly depends on how healthy Kobe, Bynum,
and Gasol can stay.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | February 13, 2008 at 12:57 PM
LTLF,
I was just saying the same thing. All these guys are going all in for one maybe two seasons. Even if we don't win it this season, we'll have multiple opportunities.
Posted by: Xodus | February 13, 2008 at 01:20 PM
Objective: Artest for perimeter defense.
Posted by: xtro | February 13, 2008 at 01:26 PM
Great Hollinger article on Jason Kidd "Deal" more like "Ripoff"
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=KiddDeal-080213&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dhollinger_john%26page%3dKiddDeal-080213
Posted by: Bynumite | February 13, 2008 at 01:32 PM
If Jason Kidd becomes a Maverick, we should just shut down the Eastern Conference except for the Celtics and the Pistons.
The Celtics and Pistons can then just play each other every other night until the winning of the most games plays the Lakers in the NBA Finals.
Have I mentioned that Mark Cuban is my least favorite owner? Not only does he have a Jeffery Dalmer-like stare from those beady-little dark eyes, but he bats for both teams from what I hear (if you know what I mean.)
There's a reason why he likes to spend so much time with his team in the locker room.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | February 13, 2008 at 01:41 PM
hariyahu,
Though I hate Ron Ron, your trade idea would clearly make the Lakers unstoppable. Scary good.
However, it's never going to happen.
The Kings will never make a trade that will improve our team.
They hate us even more than we hate them.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | February 13, 2008 at 01:43 PM
Artest would be bad karma in the locker room. Even Fish couldn't reign that guy in. And Lakers don't really need the perimeter now b/c by the playoffs they will have the passing flow down as the triangle gets more fine tuned. Our perimeter guys are getting wide open looks - that's what you want in the playoffs when the d tightens up.
I also don't think Lakers do anything else here because it sounds like this road trip really helped to solidfy the "team". PJ probably had many zen sessions with all of them that we haven't even heard about yet. This time together (albeit without Bynum) is really going to give them a leg up vs. the Suns and Dallas because of our more favorable schedule.
Posted by: PsychedLakerGirl | February 13, 2008 at 01:44 PM
LTLF,
Completely agree with your last post. I think the Lakers are the best team in the West this year (if Bynum comes back) and I still have them one year away from peaking.
However, you have to look and see New Orleans, Portland, and the Lakers as the new crop of top teams in the West moving forward.
Posted by: Andrew Z | February 13, 2008 at 01:50 PM
Mitch do we give you credit for starting a chain reaction in the West. Teams are making some drastic moves in the days before the break. I like our current roster and don't think we need anymore changes. With Trevor and Bynum back, and the addition of Pau? WE COOL!
Hey Shaq, suit up or shut up! LAKERS BABY!
Posted by: lakerfaze | February 13, 2008 at 01:52 PM
Great article, Bynumite.
This and the Shaq trade made sense...4 years ago. I honestly am more concerned about the Jazz and the Spurs than the Suns and Mavericks.
AK or BK, what's the latest you've heard about Bynum's rehab progress?
Posted by: Laker Kev | February 13, 2008 at 01:55 PM
would boston pick up on jason kidd?
Posted by: starburst | February 13, 2008 at 02:04 PM
I think a big key to the JKidd deal is the Stackhouse factor....If Dallas can resign him, then the deal swings a little more in their favor. However, what's to prevent the Suns, Spurs, Cavs or Pistons from making a run at Jerry? See...this just goes to show you what a big force Kwame Brown is. I mean, Kwame gets moved and it sets off a chain reaction all around the NBA!! Never underestimate the power of a muscular calf!!! HaHa!!
Posted by: bronxlakerfan | February 13, 2008 at 02:11 PM
Wow. The rest of the West is running scared. Risking it all.
It's like they're poker players moving their chips ALL-IN, because they're aren't good enough to play against the big stack, so they have to take a shot to stay in the game. Haha....
Posted by: wondahbap | February 13, 2008 at 02:16 PM
lakersrydeordie
>>>Question, even though Dallas can resign Stack in 30 days if he chooses to go back, is
>>>there a way we can snatch him up??? I think another shooter (albeit a streaky one) couldn't hurt...
Sure. The Lakers could make him an offer before the 30 days are up. I don't think they could offer
him any more than Dallas could, but maybe he would see the Lakers as better odds on winning and
take their offer over the Mavs.
But all Stack would do on the Lakers is take minutes away from the Machine, so I don't think it would
be a good signing. Consider some of this year's stats:
Stackhouse: 39% shooting, 28% 3-point shooting
The Machine: 47% shooting, 43% 3-point shooting.
And how many times have you seen an opposing player go nuts and attack Stackhouse this season?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | February 13, 2008 at 02:17 PM
>>>Kwame gets moved and it sets off a chain reaction all around the NBA!!
He's like the bust heard round the world.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | February 13, 2008 at 02:23 PM
If I were Kupchak...
I don't think we should be standing pat. We need to improve our perimeter defense. We should try for Artest - offer Vlad, cash and our 2009 #1 for Ron Ron. While the Kings would be loathe to help us anyway, we should send Artest feelers that we are willing to sign him to a 4 year 50M$ extension - including incentives for games played, playoff performances and keeping sanity.
Can you imagine the havoc Kobe and Ron Ron would wreck on the perimeter?
Bynum, Pau, Artest, LO, Kobe, Fish, Farmar, Trevor, Ronny, Sasha - best top 10 in the league.
Posted by: hariyahu | February 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Good post. I agree that we should make a pitch for Artest to boost our perimeter defense and make us even tougher as a team. With Artest locking up the opponents top 3 or 2, we'd be nigh unstoppable. Artest could lock up Pierce if we were to meet the Celtics in the finals and would be another matchup nightmare for opposing teams. It would no doubt be a great move. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | February 13, 2008 at 02:26 PM
Bronx, I agree on both points. I think plenty of teams will up the Ante to mke sure Dallas doesn't get Stackhouse back.
If Dallas re-signs Stackhouse, the deal doesn't look bad....but if they don't.
"The power of a Brown Muscular calf"....no kidding, perhaps the so-called "biggest bust" of all time has already changed the balance of power significantly
more than most players who ever played in the NBA.
Thank you Kwame!
Posted by: Bynumite | February 13, 2008 at 02:30 PM
Thanks Laker Kev, I find that article to be an excellent analysis from a numbers guy (Hollinger)
Posted by: Bynumite | February 13, 2008 at 02:31 PM
Stackhouse: 39% shooting, 28% 3-point shooting
The Machine: 47% shooting, 43% 3-point shooting.
And how many times have you seen an opposing player go nuts and attack Stackhouse this season?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | February 13, 2008 at 02:17 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------
BRILLIANT POST LTLF! It's so easy to get enamored by players based on impressions from 5 years ago (Shaq, JKidd are the biggest examples). Stackhouse falls in that category. He doesn't have the same explosiveness as yesteryear - the numbers don't lie.
Posted by: 805LakerLove | February 13, 2008 at 02:50 PM
My Blog family. I came back from lunch with an Entry reply from the Suns Fan. I apologize for the long blog, but this is the only way I may reply without raising my high blood pressure.
Now HB= Hubie Brown, Czar = Mike Fratello.
Mi-mi-mi. Ahem*%!
Hubies Up:
HB: "Now, I see a Sun’s Fan has been posting on the LA Times Blog ran by the Kamenetzky Brothers, which actually should be known as the K Brothers Blog. The suns fan is complaining of: Name Calling, and claims of the Lakers being Champions by another blogger named Charles."
Czar: "What does he expect, he goes on a Lakers Fan Site and berates the Lakers and claims that the Lakers don't stand a chanceagainst his team. Maybe he should think before he puts his head in the Lion's mouth"
HB: "But he claims that he llikes the blog. And I quote (I did jump to this blog cause peeps like you, smart n I like what you post.) Now, this is an oxymoronic statement."
Czar: "Are you name calling coach?"
HB: "I am in reference to his post and replying to his entry; just like what Charles did."
Czar: "That makes sense."
HB: "Apparently not to the Suns Fan. Now towards the end of Charles' entry, he mentioned that a Cav's Fan and the Suns Fan were absurd. A fundamental mishap with most communicators is that they don't understand that replies from a blog are reactionary, not personal. The Suns fan puts down the LA bloggers for having their (Blinders) on, without realizing he is putting down the tribal community of the Laker fans. Yet Charles was almost crossing the line on being personal, but needed to be demonstrative in conveying a message. Just like your Lion's head comment."
Czar: "Well I was reading his comments about Nash = Flash. Wasn't that Dwayne Wades nickname? I actually thought a GI Joe cartoon comparison would've been better. Tomax or Xamot, the evil twins from the Cobra empire. Tomax before the Nose taping foul, and Xamot after the bandage. Wouldn't that foul been ok during the 90's? Why are Sun’s still whimpering from that? But I am moving away from the topic."
HB: "Great point coach. Another issue I have is his response or lack thereof. (No more name calling.) Where was his refute to Charles' counters about Shaq, Amare, Bell, and the inappropriate air of Entitlement of the Suns. Charles in the meantime was never claiming for the Lakers to be Champions, but we are still here assessing his statement. (no more name callin CHARLES your better than that) That is a plea for no name calling, yet backhandedly implying that Charles' last post was of a lesser caliber. That coach, is what I mean by oxymoron. Examples: Friendly Fire, Hot Chicks WITHOUT issues and Fun in the Sun."
Czar: "Here what I suggest for all Laker Bloggers (including Charles) to come in unison. Give this Sun's Fan a pre-requisite so to speak. Almost like an Intelligence Quotient test. 3 Questions. If he can answer 2 out of 3 questions right, then Charles and the rest bloggers can reply back to his post. I am asking for 2 out of 3. This will test his spelling, research and comprehension skills.
1) Spell Andrew and Brian's last name. I'm referring to the Host of the Laker's blog now. (Hint: See Top of Blog Page.)
2) How many Championships have the Phoenix Suns won? (Hint: Looks like a Donut.)
3) Who was buried in Grant’s Tomb? (Hint: see question.)
Posted by: Charles | February 13, 2008 at 02:52 PM
Lakersrydeordie,
Yep - unless we (as in, ahem Kobe/Odom - as Kupchak can't talk to him directly) convince Artest that we are the only team willing to give him both - the deal he wants and the chance to win multiple chips. If I'm Artest, I'm basically telling the Maloofs - either trade me to the Lakers or watch me walk away for nothing.
LTLF,
That was my point - there are very few teams willing to give Artest the big payday he wants. And I don't think Sacto is giving him that extension either. So, if I'm Petrie, I have two options - trade Artest now in hte hope of getting something back, or risk letting him get away.
Posted by: hariyahu | February 13, 2008 at 02:55 PM
My Blog family. I came back from lunch with an Entry reply from the Suns Fan. I apologize for the long blog, but this is the only way I may reply without raising my high blood pressure.
Now HB= Hubie Brown, Czar = Mike Fratello.
Mi-mi-mi. Ahem*%!
Hubies Up:
HB: "Now, I see a Sun’s Fan has been posting on the LA Times Blog ran by the Kamenetzky Brothers, which actually should be known as the K Brothers Blog. The suns fan is complaining of: Name Calling, and claims of the Lakers being Champions by another blogger named Charles."
Czar: "What does he expect, he goes on a Lakers Fan Site and berates the Lakers and claims that the Lakers don't stand a chanceagainst his team. Maybe he should think before he puts his head in the Lion's mouth"
HB: "But he claims that he llikes the blog. And I quote (I did jump to this blog cause peeps like you, smart n I like what you post.) Now, this is an oxymoronic statement."
Czar: "Are you name calling coach?"
HB: "I am in reference to his post and replying to his entry; just like what Charles did."
Czar: "That makes sense."
HB: "Apparently not to the Suns Fan. Now towards the end of Charles' entry, he mentioned that a Cav's Fan and the Suns Fan were absurd. A fundamental mishap with most communicators is that they don't understand that replies from a blog are reactionary, not personal. The Suns fan puts down the LA bloggers for having their (Blinders) on, without realizing he is putting down the tribal community of the Laker fans. Yet Charles was almost crossing the line on being personal, but needed to be demonstrative in conveying a message. Just like your Lion's head comment."
Czar: "Well I was reading his comments about Nash = Flash. Wasn't that Dwayne Wades nickname? I actually thought a GI Joe cartoon comparison would've been better. Tomax or Xamot, the evil twins from the Cobra empire. Tomax before the Nose taping foul, and Xamot after the bandage. Wouldn't that foul been ok during the 90's? Why are Sun’s still whimpering from that? But I am moving away from the topic."
HB: "Great point coach. Another issue I have is his response or lack thereof. (No more name calling.) Where was his refute to Charles' counters about Shaq, Amare, Bell, and the inappropriate air of Entitlement of the Suns. Charles in the meantime was never claiming for the Lakers to be Champions, but we are still here assessing his statement. (no more name callin CHARLES your better than that) That is a plea for no name calling, yet backhandedly implying that Charles' last post was of a lesser caliber. That coach, is what I mean by oxymoron. Examples: Friendly Fire, Hot Chicks WITHOUT issues and Fun in the Sun."
Czar: "Here what I suggest for all Laker Bloggers (including Charles) to come in unison. Give this Sun's Fan a pre-requisite so to speak. Almost like an Intelligence Quotient test. 3 Questions. If he can answer 2 out of 3 questions right, then Charles and the rest bloggers can reply back to his post. I am asking for 2 out of 3. This will test his spelling, research and comprehension skills.
1) Spell Andrew and Brian's last name. I'm referring to the Host of the Laker's blog now. (Hint: See Top of Blog Page.)
2) How many Championships have the Phoenix Suns won? (Hint: Looks like a Donut.)
3) Who was buried in Grant’s Tomb? (Hint: see question.)
Posted by: Charles | February 13, 2008 at 02:59 PM
Whoooo... lets see what happens 4 years from now:
Spurs: Duncan will be 36
Suns: Nash 38, Shaq 40, Amare 30
Mavs: Kidd 39, Dirk 34, Howard 32, Terry 35
Lakers?
Kobe 33, Bynum 24, Gasol 31, Odom 31, Farmar 26
Message: today's elite teams will be over the hill. The Lakers, aside from Kobe, will be in its absolute prime. Our competition will more likely come from today's upstarts - Portland, New Orleans, etc.
Posted by: Vonislav Waferdenko | February 13, 2008 at 03:11 PM
I forgot to mention - Denver, too, will have its core pieces - Iverson (32) and Camby (33) fade, while the rebuidling teams of today - Seattle, Minny, Memphis, have no guarantee whatsoever that their youth movement will turn into something.
The only teams in the West that, with rosters unchanged, you can look at in 3-4 years and say: "they are going to be really good," are the Lakers, Hornets, Utah, and Portland. And out of these, none can match the lineup of Farmar, Kobe, Odom, Gasol, and Bynum. Remember, by the age of 24, Bynum will be a fully-fledged Godzilla
Posted by: Vonislav Waferdenko | February 13, 2008 at 03:20 PM
I'm curious to see how this Kidd trade works out. The Mav's had Nash back in the 2002-2003 season, when they won 60 games, however still couldn't get far in the playoffs. I'm not sure Kidd, although a better rebounder and defender than Nash, was far better than a 28 year old Stevey. Yes, Dirk has progressed as a player since then as well, but that team had an all star in Finley, better than today's Howard. Obviously, i'm making the point that the 2002-2003 team is better than the current team, yet that team was never a playoff winner.
Posted by: Haywood | February 13, 2008 at 03:52 PM
If it was a good idea to trade someone for Artest, I would pray for Luke and Mihm and a couple of dollars of course.
Mihm has not been giving us nothing and I don't care what they say about the injuries 'cuz neither he cares about me praying for him to go. He has been injuried since day one... I think I saw him limp out there when he was drafted.
Luke! Luke! Luke! what else can I say about you son!? you're like a glass ..if it is dirty anyone can see it. 'nuff said
Posted by: Maxximo | February 13, 2008 at 04:49 PM
Who cares about winning tomorrow? These old players don't care about tomorrow! they've collected all the money during their careers and have entertained you guys for so long that now all they care is getting married (get a ring).
I agree with old players moving around and signing up for a club where they'll meet other old people! They all have same interest and perhaps want to celebrate one last time together!
Posted by: Maxximo | February 13, 2008 at 04:56 PM