BK....That deal of Kurt Thomas for Kwame was proposed at least three weeks on the blog. I think the posters were "alex" and "Charles". It prompted a good debate. I thought that it was a great idea then and I still do. AK probably handled things that day, so you may have missed it.

After watching tonight's game between Boston and Detroit, it seems that the trend and tweaking of the rules towards offensive basketball is losing its steam. That game was a pure slugfest, "sludgeball", if you will. Any team that intends to make a deep run into the postseason had better amp up the physicality and intensity. Kurt, as a seasoned pro, would definitely help in those areas.

Some bloggers seem to think that Kwame bashing is getting out of hand. I agree with most that we, as Laker fans, want to see Kwame do well and lend his services to a successful season. The bashing comes from a sense of disappointment of seeing a guy with so many physical gifts being unable to maximize his potential and carve out a consistent, positive role for himself on this Laker team.

Yeah, I realize that but I pointed out that the Lakers had a 3-1 lead over Phoenix and PJ wouldn't switch Parker from Nash in favor of George. That would have won it for us. That's what Dallas and San Antonio did over the last 2 seasons. It was the logical thing to do. But for some reason PJ is above that thinking.

And to make matters worse Pat Riley kicked Parker off his team after signing him for a 2 year contract. Why? Because he saw Parkers weaknesses and dealt with them quickly. But PJ rode Parker against Nash in the playoffs when Parker was getting killed through and through.

Then last season the Lakers jumped out to a 17 point lead in game one. Then PJ pulls Kwame and the Suns pull within 2 points. So what does PJ do? He puts Kwame back in the game. Then Kobe hits three 3 pointers and the Lakers pull to an 11 point lead at half.

Then in the 3rd quarter the Lakers and the Suns are battling. The Suns are playing out of a halfcourt set but they're hitting all their shots. Then PJ pulls Brown because D'Antoni pulls a couple of screens off the ball to make Brown bump into his own teammates. By right before he did that he inserted Barbosa into the game.

When PJ pulled Kwame the Lakers we're still leading by something like 7 or 5 points. I forget the exact number. Then PJ pulls Kwame for Bynum and Barbosa goes off on a lay-up drill. He scores 15 out of the next 18 Suns points and the Suns pull away.

I wrote about those two series through and through. It seems you forget that when PJ pulled Kwame last season in that series...that's when the Suns ALWAYS attacked the rim.

I wrote about that so I can just bring it up as fact now.

We lost to the Suns for 2 years in row because of Phil Jackson...not Kwame Brown.

mike

Can you believe that the Hornets just beat the Suns without David West?

They say the Hornets are a serious team. They're 23-11. Chris Paul is no joke!

mike

I'm just not concerned with those other teams as they apply to this forum. I focus on upcoming opponents, and look at things from a pragmatic perspective. No dreams are shattered here Big Mike Effing T. Blog King.

Is there a "Shun Mike T." Bandwagon?

I'm just not concerned with those other teams as they apply to this forum. I focus on upcoming opponents, and look at things from a pragmatic perspective. I'm not worried about what's coming. I'm living in the now, and right now the Lakers are playing excellent basketball. It's not even that you praise those other teams, it's that you have to undermine the Lakers in every post you make. Your comments are constantly negative, and provide nothing but backhanded insults even when there's praise. You should convert to watching the Suns, because all of their fans are just like you.

Xodus-

Yeah, it would be for no other reason than to do right by Thomas. But that sort of thing does happen in sports, for sure.

Nemaia-

Hey. Far as I know, the answer is basically yes to all of that. I don't think they're necessarily trying to give Bynum a true face-to-the-basket post game (at least not yet), but certainly he's working on taking that eight footer when it's given to him in the high post. The sky hook is mentioned all the time around the facility and at games, and he hasn't broken it out, but I think it's something that they're working on. It's a brutally tough shot to master, though. He'd be better off walking before he runs, so to speak.

And damn, if Chris Paul wasn't a bad, bad man down the stretch for Nawlins tonight, right?

BK

"It's only logical for you to look at the elephant and make plans to face that elephant. Not to do so is just mismanagement."

And of course, the Lakers have no significant way of improving on their roster for this season - except maybe trading Kwame.

Basically every neutral observer this season is gushing over how good Bynum already is - he's already an above average center, despite being just a few months past his 20th birthday. Nobody gushes over Kwame (except Mike T) because overall he is NOT an above average center. He has some skills, underrated by many but overrated by a few. He's a good physical presence - but he's not a god in the post on defense, and the difference in man to man between Bynum and Kwame is there, but is not as large as a few pretend it to be. Add in that Bynum is the better rebounder and better at blocking and changing shots, and the defensive difference is there but not huge. But the offensive difference IS large, and getting larger. And to win championships teams don't just need defense, they also need strong and BALANCED offenses.

The Lakers don't have a true #2 offensive threat - but they are much closer to having that with Bynum, AND they have a chance to have a well balanced offense with him in the lineup. Teams cannot leave him to help guard somebody else - having Bynum in the lineup opens things up in the middle therefore for slashers like Ariza, besides the offense that Bynum directly generates. Kwame does not get that respect from opposing defenses, and for good reason. With Kwame in the lineup the Lakers' offense is much easier to shut down.

The truth is - the Lakers as a team likely aren't going to be good enough to beat the Celtics or the Spurs in a 7 game series this season - but they are more likely to win such a series with Bynum getting most of the center minutes than with Kwame doing so. Realistically though, they are a year or so away. Bynum will keep on getting better, as will Farmar and Critter. Ariza might improve offensively too. And I think there is a real chance that a solid big man will be willing to sign with the Lakers as a backup for the MLE this offseason - because now the Lakers are looking like a team that is close to being a true contender for years to come. But a team with Kwame as center is not going to excite free agents, and for good reason.

"The Celtics are doing better than the Lakers BECAUSE THEY HAVE 3 ALL-STARS STILL PLAYING AT A HIGH LEVEL."

You have got to be kidding me. The Celtics won tonight with only 92 points. Allen, Peirce, and Garnett only scored 9, 15, and 19 points.

That's nothing! It took Davis to score 20 points off the bench and they still only scored 92 points...yet, they won.

That's philosophy all the way. It's called defense. Defense is philosophy. Just like the Suns run and gun...that's a different type of philosophy.

Heck the other day when the Suns were playing the Sonics the announcer finally admitted that Amare has defensive problems against Tim Duncan because he's really a Power Forward. Then he said that the Suns were probably going to have to get a center and move Amare to the 4 spot.

He said the only question was if they should do at the end of the season, which will be too late. Then he said...and how much do they pay a guy who can stop the likes of Tim Duncan?

Now why would the Suns be thinking on those terms? Because it's obvious that the style of basketball the Suns play isn't going to win a Championship.

Why is that? Because they can't stop a top tier team that executes from a halfcourt set. But what makes it worse is that the top tier teams play defense especially designed to stop the likes of the Suns.

Yeah, it's not a random thing that the Celtics, Spurs, and the Pistons are focusing on defense as their philosophy. They are gearing up to stop the likes of the Suns, Mavericks, Lakers, and any other team that wants to act as if their offense is going to win a Championship.

That's as clear as the Sun in the sky on windy clear day in Los Angeles.

That's not hard to figure out. What makes me wonder about your comment is how you can say with a straight face that the Celtics, Spurs, and the Pistons aren't playing philosophical ball. Are you serious?

And did you ever wonder why the Suns let Kurt Thomas go? I guess you didn't see the Spurs/Suns series last season. Amare couldn't handle Duncan so the Suns brought in Thomas.

Did you see Thomas guard Duncan? Thomas' idea of guarding Tim was to let him back him down in the post and Kurt's big defensive play was to try to swip at the ball away as Tim went up for his shot. Are you kidding? If Kurt Thomas would have did a decent job on Duncan...the Suns would never had let him go.

I mean all you had to do was look at the series. Kurt Thomas couldn't do anything against Duncan. All he did was knock the ball out of Tim's hands a couple of time when Tim was going up. What people don't seem to acknowledge is how Tim had backed Kurt so near to the basket that all Kurt could do was try to swip at the ball while Duncan was going up.

Again, had it worked he would still be with the Suns right now. Everyone knows that the Suns are a player, that can guard Duncan, away from getting to the finals.

You put Kwame on the Suns and the Suns will beat the Lakers because Kwame can stop Bynum with just body position. Then Amare would be free to abuse Lamar Odom at the 4 spot. Grant Hill would abuse either Walton, Ariza, or Radmanovic at the 3 spot. Amare would abuse Marion if the Lakers traded Marion for Kwame. Kobe would beat Bell. And Nash would kill Fisher.

You put Kwame on the Suns and Kwame can keep Duncan out of the paint. Then Amare would be free against their center.

The idea the Lakers would even trade Kwame is ridiculous because of how often bigs go down with injury. If Bynum goes down what will you have if the Lakers trade Kwame?

Getting a 5 that can actually play defense is rare in this league.

Kwame can stop Amare, Wallace, Duncan, and Garnett.

In Boston Perkins allowed Rasheed Wallace to score 6 points. When the Pistions played the Lakers Kwame stopped Wallace but good. Let me see...how does this work out? Kwame can stop Wallace. Perkins can't stop Wallace. But Perkins can stop Bynum.

You do the math. It doesn't add up to success.

mike

watch out steve kerr....mike t is gunning for your job and he's bringing kwame to finally get a title for phoenix!

OOh, I just love that Mike T! What a stand-up guy!

Mike, you are just about the only optimistic thing going for me right now in my life.

Let's you and me do lunch sometime.

We will see!

mike

Mike T,

What is the point of you arguing for Kwame? I really don't get it. Do you really think he gives us a better chance at winning every single game? Or you just want to prove to everyone that he is just better than Andrew b/c that is your opinion? Also, do you dislike Andrew? Did he steal your bike or something? If you were the Lakers coach, who would be starting? What philosophy/style of ball would you employ? Also, do you play ball at all? Just wondering so I can understand where you're coming from.

I have a suggestion. Why don't we all get together and open up a blog for Mike T. on blogspot.com? It's logical. He believes he owns this one, so he should be given authorial rights on his own site.

E

If you were the Lakers coach, who would be starting?

I would start Kwame because it allows Fisher, Kobe, and Lamar to stay with their men a lot closer. The way Kwame and Fisher play the pic' 'n roll forces teams to adjust and readjust their offense, which throughout a game is automatically a lower scoring game for the oppenet.

Then Kwame has an excellent outside the paint defensive game.

When you combine the 2 techniques what you have is this:

On either side of the lane you have Kwame using his strength to keep the bigs out of the paint. Not every time but a good percentage of the time. All you have to do is look at the last Boston game. Remember when Garnett was backing Kwame down from the wing to the paint? Kwame got a foul called on him. But Garnett never got to the paint. He went up outside of the paint.

But that isn't the key. The key is the amount of time it took Garnett to work Kwame to that point and he still didn't get into the paint.

When a guy has to work that hard just to get into the paint....over the course of a game...that equates to lower points. Then combine that with how Kwame and Fisher play the pic' 'n roll. Well, that's what you call sealing the paint.

It works from along the either side of the paint and across to free throw line when you combine the two techniques. Combine both techniques and you have an extremely low scoring game for the opponent. That's why in the beginning of the season when Kwame was starting the 1st unit was holding the other team's starting until points pretty low.

When Kwame and Fisher are working the top of the key it allows Kobe and Lamar to stick their man tighter. There's no sagging to help out.

Anyway both techniques are based on footspeed and strength. Bynum doesn't have the footspeed to work the pic' 'n roll that way with Fisher. And Bynum doesn't have the strength to keep his man out of the paint unless they are unskilled and weak.

Combine the two things Bynum lacks in these two key defensive techniques and what you see is a game that will tend to be up and down. That would resemble the Phoenix Suns type of game.

When you see Kwame work the pic' 'n roll and the action along outside of the paint...that is what sets the tone for the game. When they work it right it makes teams like the Suns and the Warriors play out of a halfcourt set, which is their weakness. That the sign that you're mastering your defensive game. When you make weak teams play out of a halfcourt set when they want to run.

That's how you control the pace of the game. And that's something that Andrew Bynum can't do.

With Andrew the pace of the game is a bit faster and over time it will cost the Lakers because that style/philosophy is based on trading baskets and not defensive positioning.

With Kwame the Lakers would be able to master the defensive positioning of the game and set the pace or tone to their favor.

The Lakers right now don't have an identity. They are just a bunch of talented young guys who can score.

With Kwame working the outside of the paint and the pic' 'n roll with Fisher...the Lakers can build a defensive identity that can match both Boston and San Antonio.

I'm pretty sure we could get by San Antonio with Kwame as the starter. But Boston...there's no two ways around it...that would be a dogfight through and through.

But if the Lakers wait too long to get Kwame into the starting line-up it will be too late because it takes time to build a powerful defensive rhythm that is going to be effective when the going gets tough.

Bynum lack of these two techniques causes more of a collapsing type of defense. It works against weak team but has no chance at all against the Spurs and the Celtics.

And that's something Kareem Abdul-Jabbar can't teach Bynum to master because it requires footspeed and strength.

mike

Seriously, do you think Kobe Bryant is making his team mates better ?

kwame has defensive toughness?........everytime i hear that It makes me laugh. Poor rebounder, poor shot blocker.......No intimidating presence for guards that just run lay up drills on him...............Get real.

Traid Bait.

One of Phils major weakness i've noticed since he's been coaching the lakers....is that he has a fascination with certain players no matter what.........kwame, Luke, Smush, Cook, Mihm........and on and on. He has lost games, just to make sure they play.

Two interesting headlines today:

1. Bill Bradley endorses Obama. If you remember Phil Jackson backed Bradley's unsuccessful campaign in 2000 (just in the Knick of time, we might have been tempted to say if it had been successful). Does that mean he'll back Obama? And what is the basketball world's take on the possibility -- looking stronger every day -- of having our first black president? If a black could become president of the US, could the same thing happen in the NBA? One of these days Stern has got to go!

2. Floridians want to get rid of the Stephen Foster tune, Old Folks at Home (better known as "Way down upon the Swanee River") as the state anthem. Is that because of the poor performance and persistent injuries of old folks like Shaq and Mourning in their once lucky championship BB team?

Here's a nice little fact. In the 06-07 playoffs against the Suns, the only game we won was game 3 when Kwame had 18 points!!! We lost the series in 5, but won our only game when Kwame contributed something offensively. As far as stopping Amare, Kwame didn't stop him that entire series. Just look at the stats and you'll see that they speak for themselves.

As far as Kwame goes, all we have to fall back on unfortunately is the past two seasons where we couldn't get past the defenseless Suns. Even when Amare didn't play in 05-06 we couldn't get it done with Kwame in the middle. Coming close doesn't mean a thing if you can't get it done against Boris Diaw at center. I guess since the Suns beat us two years in a row means they played a little better than we did defensively, no? But we were supposed to be better then the Suns with Kwame in middle and with Suns not being able to play defense.

This is what makes our new lineup this year intriguing and somewhat of an enigma because we didn't have this lineup or sort of improvement from our guys last year. When this season is done, we can make a better judgment and assessment on how things played out. Don't get me wrong, I believe Kwame is needed by our team to make a nice run possibly deep into the playoffs. However judging by the concrete evidence of the past two seasons losing in the first round to the Suns with Kwame as the starting center, a change this year is refreshing and challenging. We'll see what happens the rest of the way. Go Lakers!!!

What a Joke, Andrew Z,

"Is there a "Shun Mike T." Bandwagon?"
Posted by What a Joke

I've been "Lurking" on this blog since the beginning of the season. Been a die hard laker fan for 30+ years. I enjoy "MOST" of the analysis even when I think they are completely wrong.

This is my first post because I can't stand Mike T. and his stupidity. Personally I think he just does it to be the center of attention, but he TOTALLY brings the blog down. This is the first and last time I will ever address him or his comments.

I just wanted to be the third member of WhatAJoke's "Shun MikeT bankwagon"
So far:
What a Joke
Andrew Z
Eric M

COME ON ALL! Jump on and let's get rid of this delusional fool.
Eric M.

Go away?

Andrew Z,

Not going to happen until I'm ready.

You keep on thinking that the "majority" of the readers of the blog are those who comment.

Not the case. The biggest part of this blog is the readers.

The people who actually comment are the minority.

You seem to "feel sorry for me" because...why?

Because the way I spoke to BK, AK, or Stephan A. Smith?

Why? Because I told the truth about what I think? I broke a rule about being politically correct?

What got you angry? That I said that all AK does is put links? I mean that's what he does.

mike

I just wanted to be the third member of WhatAJoke's "Shun MikeT bankwagon"

LOL!

Newflash!

Those bandwagons are real!

You can get a petition and get a million to sign up and it still would be useless because you don't get to "vote" to get your will done on this blog.

LOL!

mike

But here's the good news for all you Bynum fans.

Bynum has improved greatly on his defensive game. But not to the point where the configuration of the defensive positioning, when Bynum is in the game, is going to be able to match-up with Boston or San Antonio.

The configuration of the Lakers' defense when Kwame is in with the starters is elite status.

I mean, Bynum has actually improved from the beginning of the season to this point. It was a rapid improvement because he went to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But whatever Bynum does well...it's still based on a collapsing style of defense, which is just survival mode and not elite status.

mike

Every topic AK/BK brings up..always ends up a Kwame discussion. Every freaking day! Geeezzz!!

Nemaia,

I was looking up last years series also and found came to the same conclusion. In the NBA you always have to take advantage of matchups. Always. Same thing against the warriors. Phil refuses to play small ball. Bigs should always win out(if they are skilled enough) To me, Kwame has two skills, and that is playng pick and roll D and being big. Against the Suns, playing that kind of ball doesn't work w/ this team because it is so restrictive on the players we have. LO is better being more free. His game being restricted doesn't help the Lakers. If you go back, when he was w/ Miami, he was more free and he and his team was successful. LO needs touches to be effective. How do we do that? We play looser, we run more and try and get easier buckets. The games we do lose, LO doesn't seem to be effective to a point when it hurts us. I feel, against Boston, we had a chance but Kobe played terrible. Kobe never plays terrible like that and because he did, it affected the whole team. Against Boston, the Lakers tried to play their style of ball. The result is evident.

Mike T, saying that the Lakers don't have an identity is crazy. THe Lakers are succeeding in what Phil wants them to do. In the preseason, he wanted this Lakers team to go out and get easier buckets early. Meaning, he wanted to push the rock after defensive stops. He doesn't want the team to have to work so hard on both sides to accomplish their goals. He's doing this because of our personnel. It really helps the second unit. He's making the game easier for them. This Laker team is good at rebounding and scoring. This also should help Kwame because he doesn't have to work so hard getting down low preventing himself from injury. We do need Kwame; but he is useless if unhealthy. I'm sure the guy w/ 9rings knows what he's doing.

Posted by: Drefdeezy | January 06, 2008 at 10:59 AM

Dref,

Thanks for the great post. I in agreement with what you said. I just wanted to point out the facts of the past two seasons. It's not a knock on Kwame, but it is what it is and therefore we've seen PJ make some changes. He's tinkering with the lineup from game to game to find the best chemistry and because of injuries. All I'm saying is we've seen for two years what the Lakers were and now we'll see if things can be different with a few changes this year. Change can be good, especially when it's for the better. All that matters to me is that we improve each game regardless of who starts. Whether Drew starts and Kwame comes off the bench or vice versa doesn't matter to me as long as we're winning and showing improvement from the past two seasons.

Kobe is the person that I'm keeping an eye on because he's the pulse of the team. He's the one that I gauge the progress of this team because Kobe is fed up with the mediocrity of the past two seasons. Seriously, if Drew and Farmar weren't playing as well as they are, Kobe would've been ripping the FO a new one and solidifying his case made during the summer. The other positive coming out from the changes is the preservation of Kobe's legs for a serious playoff run. There's still a lot of ball to be played yet, but if the guys keep working hard and producing Kobe who is their biggest critic will also be the loudest in speaking praise. Go Lakers!!!