Minutes 24-36: Not so hot

I think we’re not as out as it seems…for starters, PJ, stop f’en playing the headache brigade together.

Kobe is great, but he’s not so great that he can compensate for 3 crappy players at a time, out of 5. Luke and Kwame need to be benched just on principle. LO well, I’d bench his behind too except I really don’t see anyone that can replace him.

This is the five I would start the third with (instead of that horrendous starting unit)…Fish, Sasha (or Jordan), Kobe, LO, Ronny. Sure we’re undersized but it’s not like we get much rebounds or defense with our tall lineup anyw

I don't know how long can we wait for Lamar Odom to come around and it seems to be getting worse and I'm not sure where he's head is he is a talented big guy and yet he seems to be contented jacking from the 3 point line. I believe its time to let him go trade him while he still has value.

AK and/BK:
Can you please fix the "Game Thread - Lakers at Mavs" post?
I would love to read it; however, the words to the right are cut-off.
Thanks.

It's all good, and losing 3 of the last 4 is only a bump in the road. However, is there any way we can just skip the 3rd quarter from now on? Maybe just spend that time getting slam-dunk pointers from Chris Anderson?

Again our bench outscores our starters (if you take Kobe out).

I honestly think both SA and Dallas games were winnable if Ariza was still availible. He would make a huge difference in the rotations.

Start Turiaf at PF, put Kobe at SF with Sasha and Fish in the backcourt. Bring Walton and Lamar off the bench. With Farmar that's still a decent bench. And Kobe could still go back and forth between off guard and SF if Jackson manages it right.

The FO has to take a serious look at Odom's role next year. On the right team he could be great. If we could get another piece for him to fit with Bryant and Bynum we are looking at a championship next year.

On the bright side,

I think this team's image has turned the corner and the combination of Kobe, Phil and Bynum will attract more than a handful of players who are willing to take a paycut to play here.

In fact, I would not be surprised if we land Elton Brand to something like a 2 year 12 million dollar contract.

Don't bust my bubble, please. I'm trying to keep the faith.

Wes

Faith,

Bench these two players, how many times have we suggested this in many threads, nothing materialized. It is status quo. As they say, it is hard to teach old dogs with new tricks. This blog is the voice of the typical Laker fans. What more can you ask from the fans who follow this team by heart and these fans who drove others to renew their season tickets, add more treasures the Buss coffers and yet nothing happens. Tspere suggested before, storming of the Bastille.

Gosh, we have done everything to gripe and express our frustrations, they just close their eyes and gradually WASTING THE TIME OF KOBE. Well, he is quiet now like any smouldering volcano but he could opt out when the time comes.

When there is an ailment, why don't u find the cure?

When there are potholes on the street, why don't they pave?

When Greenland and Antarctic are already melting, why do you patronize carbon emitting cars and appliances? Must you wait the tiny islands in the Pacific evaporate, before you believe?

Must you wait an Intensity 8 Earthquake to come, before retrofitting your most valuable assets?

Why do we all have to ask these questions, we are only fans?

If Coaches are not concerned, why should we?

If the Owner is not concern, why should we?

During these hard times of possible recession, before you pay Jerry Buss empire, ask these questions first? Your money should be put in better use rather than pay: Kwame, the lame - Luke, the fluke - Lamar, the O'dam*.

PS. Anyway, I think we will win this coming Sunday against Cleveland to save us from all these embarrassments. Then we forget, gullible people will rejoice. We have known that behavior before, what goes up will come down, then will go up again. It is called Inconsistency from the lame, the fluke and the O'dam.

Have I went on record in saying that I think Tiger Woods is going to Grand Slam this year?

mike

Inconsistency is the very bane of our existence. It must be stopped, and gotten rid of.

We can only make so much excuses. I myself can only have enough faith in our players, our team, our front office.

You ask why? Because the status quo is less scary than exploring what could be. And our front office is filled with people that are incapable of taking a true risk, a Jerry West like gamble.

I really don't think the fans can do anything at this point. I've written all I could to them, I've expressed all my frustration and my fellow fans' frustration to no avail. I'm afraid this is the dark times of this franchise. Unfortunately Kobe will shoulder all the blame.

AK/BK,
thanks for giving me an excuse for not writing my 10 page report on the efficiency of Trucking vs. Rail Freight Transport.

On another note, we need the basketball gods to heal a certain 7 footer's kneecap/bone bruise pretty quick.

A quote for one Lamar Odum...

"Right now we're probably just off our rhythm, both of us," Odom said. "There are going to be nights like that. You get in a jam and you just keeping shooting the ball and hope they start to fall, which they will. You just keep shooting."

It is this cavalier attitude and lack of passion, and anger, about losing that makes me hate Odum. There's very few occupations where you can get paid millions and millions of dollars for doing little more than HOPING you do what you're getting paid to do.

Wes
I agree with you and I hope we're both right.

Colorado loves the Lakers!

MEMO TO PHIL JACKSON REGARDING RULE CHANGES:

This is to inform you of TWO NBA RULE CHANGES.

1) It is no longer required to save all your time outs till the fourth quarter. Time outs can now be used in the THIRD quarter if needed. For example: During the Spur game of 3 days ago when a 9 point lead has turned into a 10 point deficit, you are permitted to use a time out.

2) You are allowed to make substitutions in the first 8 minutes of the third quarter. You are no longer required to keep the same starting lineup in the game if a substitution is needed. For example: In last night lose to the Mavs where a 1 point game turned into a 17 point deficit, you are allowed to go ahead and make a substition as needed.

JUST THOUGHT YOU SHOULD KNOW!

I'm going to do my best to be nice.
You know what?
I can not be nice.
I must be honest.
Long Time Laker Fan: your January 26, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. post was stupid.
LO/Puke/Kwamika will play better when Drewski returns?
LO/Puke/Kwamika need to play better now!
Stop making excuse for these garbage players!
When Drewski returns mid March, KB24 will be physically tired.
Why?
Because of a front line that gives you 18 points and 11 rebounds!
Drewski will give you those numbers in the first half!
Pathetic.
Long Time Laker Fan:
LO/Puke/Kwamika are worthless!
Period.
The bloggers have spoken.
It's not about emotion.
Its about history.
I have defended LO/Puke/Kwamika for years.
I will not defend them no more.
To quote KB24: "ship their asses out."

MAKE LAMAR ODOM BE THE SIXTH MAN!!!!

FIRST FIVE WITHOUT BYNUM,ARIZA,VLAD,MIHM
FISHER
KOBE
WALTON
TURIAF
BROWN

FIRST FIVE (COMPLETE LINEUP)
FISHER
KOBE
ARIZA
TURIAF
BYNUM

Good to see Odom feeling that he only took good shots (those he can hit) in the past few games, they just didn't go down. (Daily News piece). Cause the rest of us Laker fans sure don't seem so confident when he settles for perimeter Js.

His belief that he doesn't need to get more aggressive is more worrying. Defenses have clearly decided that the way to guard him is to just give him what they think he cannot make - perimeter shots.

Who's right?

WHY IS IT SOME NBA PLAYERS PLAY THEIR HEARTS OUT WHEN THEIR CONTRACT IS ABOUT TO END? EXAMPLES, LUKE WALTON, BONZI WELLS. AFTER GETTING FAT CONTRACTS THEY LIKE SH??

HOPEFULLY KWAME BROWN DOES IT TOO!!

Faith,
"And our front office is filled with people that are incapable of taking a true risk, a Jerry West like gamble."

That's what the Butler - Brown trade was.

Of course, they could have traded Bynum for Kidd this summer.

YOU EVER NOTICE
Posted by: Rick Friedman | January 26, 2008 at 09:24 AM

Lamar Odom ........ Salary $13M ............... Trade Value $0
Kwame Brown ..... Salary $9M ............... Trade Value $0
Luke Walton .......... Salary $4M ............... Trade Value $0

Feeling of invincibility other teams get when facing this trio:
PRICELESS.

LMFAO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some Personal Thoughts.......
Isn't it time to start Farmar, he needs more minutes to develop his all around game. There are times when his dribble penetration results in a turnover which takes away from his otherwise improved shooting. Now I know we all love Fish, but his "lights out can't miss" games are really very rare. He is getting up in age and we need to keep him fresh. Fish came off the bench last year with Utah and was very effective for the Jazz.
One more thing, I didn't find it amusing at all when the administrator stopped working last night at ninethirty then rubs it in our face as if to say "so what are you going to do about"
You Laker bloggers are the absolute best: Funny,Witty, Satirical, condescending, irreverant, confrontational, intelligent, stupid (lol), loyal, honest, forgiving, but most of all dedicated.
In my honest opinion, you've outgrown the Kaz bros, they do you a disservice the way this blog is managed. Their links and interviews are great but their unwillingness to hire (greedy$$$) people to update the comments in a timely manner is inexcusable
Other formats that us bloggers use can easily be substituted. We can police ourselves and report abuse LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD DOES.
This is an antiquated, no I can't say antiquated, this is a bad system for the amount of comments received each day.
We deserve better, I am not expecting this comment to get through... but if it does, it would be nice to hear other bloggers comments on this complaint.

I think Odom and Coach Jackson have both smoked too much dope......

Exhelodrvr,

"Faith: And our front office is filled with people that are incapable of taking a true risk, a Jerry West like gamble."

That's what the Butler - Brown trade was. Of course, they could have traded Bynum for Kidd this summer."

Along those lines, I actually think that refusing to trade Bynum for Kidd was not only the smart move, but the much riskier move by a long shot. Betting on potential is considerably more risk-laden than going with the known quanity. If Bynum doesn't pan out, you're stuck living with the fact that you could have had a HOF-caliber PG instead of a lottery bust. Same thing with not giving up Bynum for JO (the known, if injury prone, quanity). Just the the fact that the front office opted to use their first lottery pick in over ten years on a project as opposed to a Danny Granger, on the heels of missing the playoffs no less, was risk to begin with.

And yes, you're absolutely correct that trading Butler for Kwame was all risk on the Lakers' part. Even taking into account that Butler still had room to grow, he was considerably more polished and on a better career path than Kwame. You certainly can't accuse them of taking the safe move in that case.

AK

Laker fans, I think you'll like this article from Yahoo Sports:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhxdJIvoMTc4QcadLF4E77K8vLYF?slug=aw-midseasonawards012608

AK,
The front office has done a decent job the past several years.

Bynum appears to be a huge steal, Farmar looks like he will be a very solid player, Turiaf possibly the same, Crittenton looks very promising, if he is willing to put the necessary work in, the Shaq trade was the right move.

Brown - Butler was arguable at the time, in retrospect bad, Brown extension was a mistake, Vlad signing probably a mistake, Walton signing somewhat forced on them by realities of the salary cap - jury still out on that one.

Overall the positives outweigh the negatives.

For those of you yelling for more aggressive moves by PJ; the problem is that at the moment Jackson has almost no room for making adjustments.

He doesn't want to play Fisher too much, because he doesn't want to wear him out. Can't stay with the quicker guards.
Farmar, as he showed at the very end of the game last night, is not ready yet for 30-35 minutes a game. Very promising, but still making rookie mistakes.
Sasha is very inconsistent.
Turiaf is somewhat foul-prone, on the small side for C, and not durable enough to play big minutes. Doesn't have a great inside game, although it's getting better.
Kwame is extremely limited, and his complete lack of offense makes everything harder for the other four on the court.
Walton is a niche player, whose limited (relative to the rest of the league) mobility is further hampered by his current injury.
Odom is very inconsistent, physically and mentally.
Mbenga is very limited offensively, still learning the teammates and the system.
Crittenton and Karl are not ready for extended minutes.

So what adjustments can Phil make right now?

LO is frustrating. Neither he or Kwame are high IQ but they are trying. You would hope they would learn but obviously not. LO keeps taking 3 pt shots even though the coaches have mandated that he not take them. For whatever reason LO can't seem to get into a comfortable scoring position. LO is a great player when he is not the second scoring option.

Without Bynum the second option should be Fisher/Farmar/Sasha or Turiaf. Hopefully Vlade Rad returns soon and gets many Walton minutes. Vlad Rad may be the 2nd option too.

Let LO be LO. He does have 19 pt and 19 rebound games. He clearly not perfect but he's better than almost anyone you can get in a trade.

Trade Kwame for ?? Lakers would need legit big man in return.

Not Chris Webber who is a has been bad kneed joke. All you arm chair gm's hollering about C-Webb also want JKidd and R Artest as well. No trades. Lakers improvement comes when Bynum, Ariza, Vlad Rad return. Mihm is terrible with negligible contribution.

AK, you beat me to it...now that you stole my conmment, I guess I'll just say that I don't care about risky moves. Being a GM isn't rocket science, but it isn't mathematics either; there aren't definite answers to most questions. Most moves aren't guaranteed to work, or to fail, for that matter.

I'd just like to see a few more makes than misses from the front office, that's all. But I think they've made plenty of risky moves over the past few years, a few of which have worked.

I wish someone could give a reallly good explanation for why so many third quarters suck for the team.

With all due respect, I disagree.

Our front office is only capable of small but good deals...like trading for Mo, or Trevor. But they're not capable of pulling off a big deal like KG...and yes JO.

While in hindsight not trading Bynum for Kidd was the right decision...it doesn't remove the fact that they were too chicken to do a real gamble (as in not changing the status quo). Don't get me wrong, I agree with it, but it's also the very reason why we have been in shambles. It's the philosophy, the manner at which we go about things.

Trading for Kwame (although I agree and still continue to agree in theory with that trade) is not a risk. It's an insanity. I have defended Kwame, and will continue to do so, but even I recognize that it's not one of our best moments. Holding onto him and LO...well a fan just have to question our team's moxie...daredevilness. A fan just can't help but be nostalgic about the times that was with the great Jerry West. Then again some I'm sure would say that expecting both of them (LO, Kwame and really Luke to some extent) to finally "get it" is the biggest gamble of all...and yes it might be, but it's also not the smartest. It's actually pretty crazy (to some).

But you're right, holding onto Bynum is a huge gamble.

That "Birdman" segment was later topped by Nate Robinson taking 30 minutes (or so) to make one dunk in the contest finals...that was a joke.

Exhelodrvr,

By no means do I think the front office has been perfect, but I actually think their biggest problems have centered around an unorganized appearance and a lack of unity between Mitch, Phil and Jim/Jerry (with Jeannie adding to the soap opera vibe) than their actual decisions. I agree that a lot of them have been somewhere between good and reasonable than bad.

It's not like they've had a ton of high picks to work with (and the one they did have in Bynum could end up among the best players in the class). But Turiaf, Walton, The Critter and Farmar were all very good picks for where they went. As you pointed out, Walton's resigning was as much or more about cap realities and practicalities than "coveting" Luke. Same with resigning Mihm (which was much lower risk/high potential reward). And if you look around the league, Walton makes what players of his comparable talents get paid. If you think it's absurd for a role player to make 5-6 mil, fine. But it's not unheard of by any stretch. Seriously, is Walton really worth way less than Jason Kapono or Speedy Claxton?

The Shaq deal, when you really break it down, equaled LO, Butler, Grant (unavoidable) and Farmar (#26 pick). That's a pretty good return, considering what Shaq's turned into and the rushed circumstances surrounding the trade. Where the transaction really turned bad was flipping Butler for Brown (which I hated at the time because it removed their 2nd best/most consistent player for an unknown), but you have to treat them as separate issues. Honestly, all things considered, they couldn't have done much better moving O'Neal if they wanted to make sure Kobe stuck around (which meant making a decision ASAP).

When it comes down to it, the only decisions the front office made that I thought were bad in a consequential way (something like trading a pick for an unused Pinnock doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things), avoidable and could have been forseen were the Butler-Kwame deal and drafting Cook instead of Josh Howard. That one left me jawdropped at the time, since the Lakers needed to get more athletic and here was a seriously athletic ACC player of the year. Of course, Howard slipped pretty far, so Kupchak wasn't the only guy who made a mistake. And in fairness to Cook, he was the Big Ten Player of the Year, so it's not like he was exactly chopped liver himself. But that pick left me shaking my head. And they should have risked the union headache and tried voiding Vlad's contract when they had a potential chance last season. That would actually be a time when, as Faith mentioned, they may have been too risk averse, because I guarantee it would have gotten messy. But worth the risk, in my opinion.

But outside of those things, not much pops to mind. I'm not even sure I'd count Vlad's actual signing. He's been a disaster, but it was also a deal that made a lot of sense at the time, at least in my mind. I thought he'd be a pretty good triangle fit and they needed a shooter. Outside of the fact that Vlad turned redundant when they extended Cook (which, again, is a separate issue), I'd give them a pass on Radmanovic. Sometimes decisions don't work out, but there's a difference between decisions that don't work out and stupid decisions.

AK

"This is the five I would start the third with (instead of that horrendous starting unit)…Fish, Sasha (or Jordan), Kobe, LO, Ronny. Sure we’re undersized."

That's right. It should have been the day Bynum went down.

Ex, I can't believe you're defending the front office. You more than anyone has believed and pointed out this is a team full of role players. With perhaps just Kobe as someone that would start in other teams.

"Have I went on record in saying that I think Tiger Woods is going to Grand Slam this year?"

KWAME IS A THE WORSE BIG PLAYER IN THE NBA!!!

Ex - I'm not sure what adjustments Phil can make, but if I was making $10 million, I'd damn sure try to come up with solutions. I'm sure he's working on it, but there's gotta be some different things he can try while we're dealing with the injuries.

How many figured Bynum would be THIS important before the season started?

Faith,

"Inconsistency is the very bane of our existence. It must be stopped, and gotten rid of."

Admit it you have defended Kwame many times with Mike T. Isn't it Kwame is the very EXAMPLE of insconsistency? Sometimes he is almost consistently useless.

IT’S THE YOUNG PLAYERS THAT GET IT!

What is becoming clearer and clearer with each game is that besides our championship starting back court, it’s the young guys on the Lakers who get what Kobe and Fish are trying to do and have answered the bell. Last night it was Farmar and Turiaf who showed up to play with Kobe while Luke and Lamar again were absent. It’s great that our young guys are playing so well but it’s sad that our key vets have been playing so poorly.

I actually thought that last night’s game was quietly encouraging. Despite missing two starters, we still had a chance to win the game. And unlike after our third quarter collapse against the Spurs, this time we fought back and almost pulled off an amazing upset. The Mavs are a joke and a choke. They were extremely lucky to hang on to their win as they again showed their lack of mental toughness. With Bynum and Ariza back, we will dominate these guys.

I loved the fearlessness that Farmar displayed last night. Again and again, he showed how he can impact the game with his speed and ability to penetrate. Yes, he did have four turnovers but we wouldn’t have even been in the game at the end without his great shooting. It’s just like when he played in the NCAA championship game, Farmar never gives up and always plays with verve and confidence. And he has the work ethic to keep getting better and better, just like Kobe, just like Drew, just like Magic.

Ronny Turiaf also continues to get better and better. I frankly couldn’t care if Kwame Brown played another minute for the Lakers. His offense is a huge liability and his supposed good defense seems to have disappeared. I would much rather put Ronny out there at center and go small. He played better defense than Kwame last night. Time to go with the guys who have the heart and want to play. Until Drew and Trevor return, I would rather see us start Ronny, Lamar, Kobe, Fish, and Farmar. Put Luke and Kwame on the second unit where they will play less until they get their game together.

The silver lining in this cloud is that Farmar and Turiaf will see increased minutes and become more important contributors and gain valuable experience before the playoffs while Kwame and Luke are forced to earn their playing time with better play. By the time we get Drew and Trevor back, we will be able to take our game up another notch as we enter the playoffs, healthy and ready to do some serious damage.

Finally, you have to give props to KB24 for a warrior-like performance. You know that Kobe wanted this game badly. Did you see him slam the ball down after that last Dallas 3-pointer that sealed the game? I haven’t heard any post-game comments, but I would bet that Kobe was proud of how the team, especially his young guys, fought back. Don’t worry, Lakersville. Dallas’ window for a championship has closed and our window is just now opening up. We just need our young guys to keep growing and maturing.

Tom

LAMAR ODOM and LUKE WALTON are sabotaging Kobe's BID for MVP, if Lakers continue to loose the next two weeks, KOBE WILL FALL BEHIND IN THE MVP RACE.

KWAME on the other hand simply plays bad at all times.

Ak, I think you're a nicer guy than I am; I'm not willing to give them a pass on signing Vlad. I thought that was a joke when I first heard it. I didn't like Vlad's game since he was in Seattle; all he can do is shoot, and he hasn't been consistent at that. Shooters are a dime a dozen in this league. And I thought the Kwame trade was brutal from the got-go, but I'd probably seen him play more than most people on this blog. He is who he is. I never understood that, and the extension just leads me to believe he has vidoe of Mitch and/or Jerry doing something they shouldn't have.

That said, I do think they've generally drafted well. As an aside, I never understood the Josh Howard thing either - I was shocked when he didn't go top ten. I thought he might have been top five.

YOU EVER NOTICE

JERRY WEST WAS A GREAT JUDGE OF TALENT

Mbenga--I saw something in Congo last night. Shame this guy didn't have Kareem when he was younger. I would rather watch him dish out 6 fouls before being submitted to the Kwame Comedy Hour. I would be really surprised if he is not given a 2nd 10 day contract. We might have something here with DJ.

Farmar--great game with a couple of big turnovers. More important than the turnovers is the I AM NOT AFRAID TO TAKE A BIG SHOT IF NEEDED unlike ODUMB. I think between Farmar and Critter we have something special brewing. Farmar is a true Laker and should be a keeper.

Odumb-lets just say the light bulb isn't real bright. I have given up on him. Yes a good rebounder but thats about it. At 13 million this experiment is a complete failure. Between he and Kwame totaling 22 Million as the 2 and 3 highest paid players on the team is pathetic. The organization has to make this the top priority over the summer of getting rid of these 2 overpaid players.

Kwame doo doo Brown--I pray every day that I get the news that Kwame is no longer on the team. Being a die hard fan from 1980 till now it amazes me that Laker Mgt made me watch Smush for 2 years and now Kwame for 3.
I will never forgive Buss for this but I love him for keeping Bynum.

Can't the NBA give us say 5 points to start the game if Phil isn't going to call time outs to stop the avalache.

Wonder how long it will take Phil to figure out why the 3rd quarters are going so bad.....think Lamar, Luke, Kwame have anything to do with it??

Why does Phil always look to Rambis everytime the team's play heads south?

Hurry back Bynum because the weaknessess of the Lakers are being exposed and it's only going to get worse till you get back.

GET WELL ANDREW!!!!!! THE LAKERS NEED YOU!!!!!! THE FANS NEED YOU!!!

BD

Faith,

With the same respect accorded, I think you're also off base (haha).

"Our front office is only capable of small but good deals...like trading for Mo, or Trevor. But they're not capable of pulling off a big deal like KG...and yes JO."

What else were they supposed to do to land KG? They offered everyone possible (including Bynum) and Minny went with Boston's offer. They also tried to set up a three way deal involving Charlotte and the Bobcats backed out. Sometimes things just don't happen, but not for a lack of effort or huevos. As for Jermaine, it wasn't a question of them being incapable or scared. They looked at the one-sided offer Indy was insisting on (in part because of the weak position Kobe's tantrum put the Lakers in, but that's beside the point) and said, "it's a crappy deal that doesn't make us better. No thanks." That's not being unable of sealing a deal or being risk averse. It's just being smart. You're honestly not giving them enough credit here.

"While in hindsight not trading Bynum for Kidd was the right decision...it doesn't remove the fact that they were too chicken to do a real gamble (as in not changing the status quo). Don't get me wrong, I agree with it, but it's also the very reason why we have been in shambles. It's the philosophy, the manner at which we go about things."

There was nothing "chicken" about it, nor were they clinging to status quo. Status quo of what, exactly? Besides, they offered Kwame, Farmar and others for Kidd, but said Bynum was off the table, because they believed in him. That has nothing to do with being scared. It's labeling a player more or less untouchable, which takes balls (and bigger balls than trading for the HOF bound player). And it turned out they were right. Plus, you can make an argument (as I thought at the time) that trading their entire front court for a PG, even one as good as Kidd, was a sideways move to begin with, especially on a team where Kobe handles the ball as often as Kobe. But in any event, there's a huge difference between being scared and not simply allowing yourself to get rooked. Again, I don't think you're giving them enough credit.

"Holding onto Kwame and LO...well a fan just have to question our team's moxie...daredevilness. A fan just can't help but be nostalgic about the times that was with the great Jerry West. Then again some I'm sure would say that expecting both of them (LO, Kwame and really Luke to some extent) to finally "get it" is the biggest gamble of all...and yes it might be, but it's also not the smartest. It's actually pretty crazy (to some)."

Considering how much time LO and Kwame have spent rumored to be on the block and how hard Kupchak worked to trade both this summer, I think you're seriously overestimating how much the front office clings to either.

Again, I'm not trying to canonize the front office, because, as I pointed out earlier and on many other occasions, they've effed up before. But I do think it's not fair to view every trade that doesn't happen as a "failure," regardless of the circumstances. And keep in mind, this is the same front office that everyone was recently heralding as geniuses for not making a move when the team was playing well with Bynum. You can't have it both ways just because unavoidable scenarios (injury) go down.

AK

"Have I went on record in saying that I think Tiger Woods is going to Grand Slam this year?"

mike

Posted by: Michael Teniente | January 26, 2008 at 01:16 PM

Finally Mike T says something that makes sense!!!!

Eric M,

That memo was cute...and too funny...I couldn't stop laughing...though funny, at the same time true. Do you think there is a way to fax it to him...Maybe AK/BK can take it to him at practice tomorrow so that he will have it before the game tomorrow.

YOU EVER NOTICE

dammit computer problems (conspiracy theory)
anyway
you ever notice how quick Popovich sends in Ginoboli.... sometimes 4 or 5 minutes into the game, also did you notice in the game wednesday he started the 3rd quarter

Whatever happened to the coaching style where, if you're playing bad you get pulled and if you're playing good you stay in till you can't breathe?

Also, if something isn't working, find a combination that does

Bias against Kobe continues...

I did not get to watch the game last night since I don't live in S. California... so when I checked the ESPN website to see the results this morning, I thought Kobe had a horrible game because it read,"Howard's Defense on Kobe Keeps Lakers at Bay." Then, I saw the box score and found out that Kobe scored 40 points.

Who in the NBA now gets this kind of treatment? I am sure Howard had a good game last night and he is a good player... but Kobe scored 40 points and the title makes it sound like Howard locked Kobe down. The scrunity that Kobe receives is just unfair. If Lebron or D. Wade had 40 point games... they will be heroes all over the place.

Finally, a sports writer with good conscience stood up and said that Kobe is the MVP of the first half (see today's Yahoo Sports page). But, look at other 'so-called' mainstream sports writers, they are trying so hard to deny Kobe yet another MVP award, by saying KG, Lebron, and even CP are MVP candidates before Kobe.

This is simply unfair... and I am so sick and tire of such obvious bias against Kobe.

Kobe! The true fans know you have been the MVP for the past 3 seasons. Hope these biased sports writers don't affect you in any way. Keep your head up... we got your back!

Michael A,

"Ak, I think you're a nicer guy than I am; I'm not willing to give them a pass on signing Vlad. I thought that was a joke when I first heard it. I didn't like Vlad's game since he was in Seattle; all he can do is shoot, and he hasn't been consistent at that. Shooters are a dime a dozen in this league."

Hey, I'll own up when my instincts went way the off the rails. This would be one of those times. haha

AK

Faith,
"Ex, I can't believe you're defending the front office. You more than anyone has believed and pointed out this is a team full of role players."

I never said that they were brilliant, but the reality is that they have done a decent job. There were not many other moves that could have realistically been made. And I didn't even bring into consideration the injury factor; even given the fact that there are a number of players on the team who are hsitorically injury prone, the Lakers have still been hit harder than would be typical.

I can't blame the Front Office at this point for the poor play of Lamar, Luke, and Kwame. There were many justified expectations, especially in LO's case, that this trio could be important contributors to a championship run.

The truth is, the blame for their poor play can be placed exclusively on Lamar, Luke, and Kwame. Whatever their limitations, higher professional aspirations and an inner commitment to excellence would produce better results. Lamar's post game quote that he'll "continue to play excellent basketball until the coach tells me not to," was in a word, laughable.

The injury situation what it is, Phil has little choice other than to continue to play them. But PJ can -- and should -- be quicker to yank them when they're not producing. He should no longer look at them, as he did the past two nights with Lamar, as closers. They're not.

Bring the Bench Mob in before it's too late. I think the reason Farmar takes so many kamakazee chances is because he's brought in at desperation time, and as a true competitor, he sees himself as "Mighty Mouse," singing to himself "Here we come to save the day..." Too often, the Bench Mob is called upon to perform a miracle. As much as it would be nice, miracles don't happen every day.

Mbenga continues to be criticized on this blog for his stats. Look at the guy for how he plays. Mbenga is very effective at frustrating the opposition, plays with great energy and great passion. As one of five Lakers on the floor, he doesn't have to produce huge offense if the other guys are doing their part. His aggressive Defense limits the opposition points, which is equally important.

Lamar, Luke, and Kwame need to spend more time looking in the mirror. Not preening -- as we can all imagine Walton doing -- but doing some serious introspection about why they are playing NBA basketball, and what is demanded every time they put on the Purple & Gold uniform.

Michael A,
"I'm sure he's working on it, but there's gotta be some different things he can try while we're dealing with the injuries."

Which ones can you think of, that aren't more likely to make things worse? The only one I can think of for the current state is to possibly play Sasha more; they are probably being cautious with his time, though, until they're sure his back will be OK.

YOU EVER NOTICE
Bias

You should also have heard Peter Vescey on NBA TV last night
He blamed the loss on Kobe for taking 19 shots and he blamed the Spurs loss because Kobe took the first three shots of the third quarter

VESCEY IS A TRUE KOBE HATER
That 19 shot attempt reasoning is just not justifiable
In fact thats about the perfect amount of shots to take
40-10-5... if LBJ had those numbers everybody would be praising his gallant effort in making a game of it

I just can't believe the way Kobe is critized night after night
No one in the history of the game has ever been so viciously attacked
I guess its damned if you do damned if you don't

Is it still about Colorado, Shaq, and/or Phil?
Is it because he's accused of being a phoney
Racism?
What is it that brings out such strong opinionated commentaries?

Lakers should trade Kwame, Lamar, Luke, no question about it. You look at NBA teams, they will trade with Lakers when they're in trouble, right now i look at NY, there is a conflict between Curry and Randolph. Lakers should try to trade Kwame and Luke for Randolph, or Curry ( 8.3 mil), let's find out NY like Randolph or Curry, with Kwame NY will get 9 mil free next year, or Lamar and Luke for Randolph and another player with contract expire next year, Randolph makes around 13 mil, Phil of course will reject because he likes Luke so much, so Lamar for Randolph, with Randolph Lakers have a big guy who can play inside, Phil makes 12 mil, he can't say that he can't coach Randolph. Kwame, Lamar, Luke will get injured every year, plus they can't help Lakers on offensively, make a move, 3 years already, we can't wait any longer for these average players. Kobe of course will say nice things about these 3 players, but if he likes them why he wanted out LA last year.

YOU EVER NOTICE -

I totally agree... take a look at what Marty 'Kobe-hater' Burns says on CNN.com. He picked KG, Lebron and then Kobe. KG is playing with 2 other franchise players in Allen and Pierce. Lebron... he is great, but it is not his time yet. Even he admitted many times that Kobe is the best player in the league. He defers to Kobe.

I really don't understand this hate... it is way too unreasonable and unfair.

Kobe is truly the most underappreciated talent in the history of this game.

If the front office could play defense we'd be alright. It took Farmar awhile to warm up last night on offense, but he was porus on defense as was Sasha and of course Odom. Everybody shot over him last night. You can't beat Dallas if you can't shut them down long enough to extend or get a lead.

Isn't the fact that we continue to hold onto and invest in players whose only potentials that have panned out have been injury prone---as much a product of how inept the front office is?

I'm well aware that injuries are a part of the game, but sometimes that's why you make a choice to go on your separate ways. God knows Orlando is reaping the rewards of no longer having TMac.

AK, I'll think about what you said. I may be, and if I am I will admit it. With all due respect lol.

LOL. Go to lakers.com Cleamons and Vitti look exactly alike smiling in profile.

Guys, I just wanna say to all that there is no need to panic.

Ok, Lamar, Kwame and Luke are playing like crap. I get it.

Actually I don't really like them as players. Never did. I just tolerate them because they are Lakers now, but I sure would prefer they would not.
These 3, plus Vlad, who I also think is garbage, cost us $32 million a year.
What a waste.

Anyway, I think we will be just fine when the playoff comes. Let me tell you why.

After Bynum got injured (and Ariza) I set a 23-16 record as a reallistic goal for us until the end of March.

Here is our schedule:

Bad Teams - 13 games - NYK, NJN, MEM, SAC (2), SEA (3), MIN, LAC (2), MIA (2)

Very Winnable Teams - 12 games - ATL (2), WSH (2), TOR (2), CHA (2), POR (2), GSW (2)

Good Teams - 14 games - CLE (2), DAL (4), DET, SAS, ORL, PHX (2), NOH, HOU, UTH

I came up with the goal considering that we should win all games against the bad (13), split the winnable (6) and steal at least 4 against the good.

So far we are just doing that:

1 game against bad teams (SEA) - 1 win
4 games against good teams (PX, CLE, SAS and DAL) - 1 win, 3 losses, no blow outs.

So if we keep playing like now, even considering the crap effort we get from Lamar, Luke and Kwame, it is pretty reasonable to believe we will get an above .500 record for that strecht.

So the real key is how Bynum and Ariza will be when they return.
If they come back well, then we will be just fine for the playoffs.

Keep believing.

Ex - about the only thing I know for sure I'd do is sit Luke down for a bit, if only because I dont' think that foot is healthy, and it's affecting his play. We have so many other people out already, and his play is so erratci right now, I'm not sure why that doesn't make sense. What, we might lose a couple more games? With Bynum out, we're going to lose a couple more anyway. I'd rather be healthy for a playoff run.

I guess that means more time for the Critter and some for Kobe playing the three. Unless they can get someone on another 10-day or so...

AK - Takes a bigger man than some to admit that. I wish Vlad had worked out (and who knows, he still might), but I never thought it likely. I wasn't surprised by his snowboarding accident, because I knew the guy was flaky from way back.

Hey, Faith:
you have been quoted at latimes.com (the front page of the website).
Scroll down to the middle.
Congrats!

Thanks LakerGurl.

Any comedian will tell you that the best humor has some truth to it.

I would love for PJ to read it or get it delivered to him. Wish I had his fax #. ;-)

lol, thanks.

Faith's message about crappy Luke and LO made it to the front page of LA Times web site

" Kobe is great, but he's not so great that he can compensate for three crappy players out of five. Luke and Kwame need to be benched just on principle.
-Faith, on the Lakers' loss to the Dallas Mavericks"

maybe the message will get across and …

Faith,
Compare this team's moves to the moves of the rest of the league, and you will see that they are in the top third, possibly higher, depending on how good Bynum, Farmar, Turiaf, Crittenton turn out.

When Lamar makes comments like this, YOU KNOW he doesnt get it:
"Asked if he needed to push his own offense more, Odom said: "I would say no. I'm just going to play basketball and let the game come to me and stay within the offense and play basketball the right way. … Both games, I took shots that I was comfortable with."

Lamar do you really think you played basketball the "right way" last nite! SHOOT THE FREAKIN ROCK!

Why can't a coach go to him and say if you dont shoot 15 times we lose?

Why dont reporters ever ask Lamar, if you dont score as the 2nd option who will?

Odom is ridiculous. I used to like him but now I hate him. Geez...

My only hope is that PJ and Mitch have realized this AND will be ready to move Odom next year when his expiring contract will be worth a fortune.

Allan,
that's sensible and real.

the best thing for the fans to do right now to preserve the season is to be supportive and pray that the team is fully healthy by march.

whining may be entertaining, but it won't encourage winning...

Michael A,
"What, we might lose a couple more games? With Bynum out, we're going to lose a couple more anyway."

Playing a little below .500 while Bynum is out isn't a big deal, but playing a lot below .500 would potentially affect the chances of making the playoffs this season. I don't think they can afford to take that risk right now.

Aloha

O.k I personally do not feel the sky is falling yet. We have 4 guys out and 3 other guys playing through injuries. That makes it extremely difficult to go into Texas and win. I think we just need to get some guys back to bolster our depth and increase our options.

1st back looks like Vlade. I am looking forward to his return. Remember he was off to a nice start until he fell and sprained both wrists. He continued to play but never seemed to regain his shooting touch. Now that he has been out with the ankle hopefully the wrists are healed as well.

Sit Luke? Well with his bum ankle that would be ideal but with Vlade and Trevor out there really hasnt been an option. Hopefully Vlade can come back and is the same guy that was playing ahead of Luke in the rotation earlier.

TRADE TRADE TRADE. For who? If we trade Kwame we would have to get a big in return. And currently there isnt anyone on the market that I have read about that we could get for Kwame that would make us better. And Lamar, again who would we get? Its easy to say trade but first there has to be a guy available that would be an upgrade. And dont think for a minute that we could get someone like Gasol for Lamar. They would want young players and draft picks for him.

Lamar has been playing poorly for about 2 weeks now. Before that he seemed to be in a good groove for several weeks. In the 3 yrs he has been here I can not remember him every having to games like the last 2 back to back. I really feel like he will snap out of it. If he can get back to were he was in the 1st half of last year we will be O.K.

Also if Mihm can come come back and give us some decent minutes that will also help. Remember Cris was having a break out year when he went down and missed a year and a half. If he can even give us 15 strong minutes a game, that would limit the amount of time Kwame is on the floor with his bad ankle. And I really to believe it is his ankle. He has always been a zero on offense but he was a decent defender until now. Hopefully some reduced minutes can help it heal.

I am sure the FO will pull off a trade if it makes sence but I dont think anything will happen untill the all star game. That seems to be the time when most deals start to go down. So hang in there Laker Fans. We have 2 at home before we hit the road. And while it is a long road trip, there is definetly a lot of winnable games. Think about this. If we play as well as we did in our last 3 losses to elite teams we should be able to beat most of the teams that are on the road trip.

MH

3 players need to go: Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, and Sasha Vujacic...immediatley. Go LAKERS!!! Fan 4 Life!

everybody is so fickle.
Take a pill already.

Our lakers are good this year, when healthy VERY GOOD.
I mean it wasn't long ago I was bracing myself for my first adult tears to flow at the prospect of Kobe leaving. Now with Kobe/ bynum and so much youth we look like a top tier team set to make runs the next 5-10 years. I'll take that any day of the week and twice on sundays.

I mean we lost two in a row to dal and SA. DALLAS and SAN ANTONIO are the last two WC Champs. With 2 different MVP's and and Finals MVP. Losing to them on the road with 5 MAJOR injuries is nothing to cry about.
The team will rebound and this road trip will be up and down, but we will stay middle of the pack seed (3-6) and make a run into the postseason.

So everybody cool you jets and enjoy the drama, around the show there is always enough to go around. Stop trying to dump all our guys, even though they might give us headaches once in a while.

Lets go lakers showdown with the cav's tomorrow!
Bring some positivity, hope the lakers play some D, and when the dust settles---I'll see you all at the parade this june.

out

Seems like blogger nation's starting to get itself into a little bit of an uproar here. I admit we've played a couple of really crappy third quarters and Lamar and Luke are definitely missing in action. I wouldn't however, start doing the whole 'dark days" thing though. I can remember some bad slumps during our championship years, not all that long ago. Fish, Fox and Horry all had some horrendous stretches. Anyone remember how Rice started slumping during the end of the 99-00 season? How JR Rider started out strong and then totally nose-dived? The guy was basically out of the league after that and now he can't stay out of jail. Remember Mitch Richmond? One of the great players in the league and he couldn't even crack our rotation. How about the year before Jackson took over - I was so jazzed when Rodman signed with us and we all know how that ended. In Vegas I think.

Not exactly sure how to follow up any sentence that has Rodman in it. I do know that we pretty much have to play the cards we have at this point. And as far as some of these trade scenarios go, does anybody on this blog REALLY think McHale would have given us Garnett? Let's be serious here. The guy traded his team into a 7 and 35 start (the worst in the league) and would probably do it again rather than deal Garnett to us.

Sure hope we win Sunday. Winning cures all, right? Be glad we're not in the Clippers' shoes right now. Or Miami's. Second worst record in the league btw. Oh and in case anyone forgot, we're 3 games out of first in the western divsion. Sucks to be us, doesn't it?

AK,

I just read your posts to Faith about the moves of the F/O aand you're doing a good job for them. However, never did I read any posts coming from F/O directly answering a blogger or poster. Is it because we are not qualified like you do? We are posting here like "whackos" to give your a blog for living and identity in the blog world. To us, making a comment in this blog is sharing our passion, our outlet and happiness as a Laker Fan. How many years now are we in this blog? 2 going 3, did Mitch Kupchak ever addressed the concern of the fans? Did Phil Jackson ever answered strategic questions paused on this blog? What we see on TV are Q&A that were pre-arranged? Why don't we have a real town meeting with Lakers organization at the end of the season? The point is if you are a General Manager or the Coach of the Lakers - "Can you defend your decision to the Laker Fans?"

This is Los Angeles and Laker Fans are not entirely dum-dum as the organization continue to ignore our querries and pleas. For all you know, many who are posting on this blog have higher educational attainment than Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson, perhaps not a degree in professional basketball but they can speak eloquently and offer some new ideas. We are now in the 21st Century, if you can go interactive for business purposes, then let the fans speak for themselves and the organization listen and respond in the interactive way. I think that is what blogging is all about in the 21st century.

Taxation without representation is unfair to the governed.

Michael H.,

Aloha! How many posts have you made in this blog? Have u gotten any answer from the Laker organization except from another blogger who may be speculating an answer to your question. This has been a trend of this blog. At certain point, you get tired of that subtle of exploitation or term it as abuse of feedbacks without any replies.

Like for example, in your case you made an assumption that Lakers might make some move after the All Star, that is a valid assumption, do we get a feedback from the F/O after a passionate plea in the preceding thread? Yes, the sky is not falling but the fans were passionate for those 2 important losses for they know it could have been won. Of course we know we lost because we lacked the 2 good players, but our question why are they playing these 3 bad players?

I guess the most difficult cities to coach and play with are Los Angeles and New York. You just can't appear and play, you really have to perform. Fans want answers not excuses from soundbites or let the moderator of the blog answer for top management or speculations from third parties. Of course, you know I'm not referring to you as the 3rd party.

passionate Laker fan,

>>>Long Time Laker Fan:
>>>LO/Puke/Kwamika are worthless!

Please. If you're going to call Luke Puke, at least have a tiny scrap of cleverness and call Lamar
Lamer. I'll accept the Kwamika (presumably implying he's a girl), though Krumme works better for
me.

>>>Period.

Well. I would agree with you that both Luke and Lamar (or Puke and Lamer, if you prefer) had
bad games against Dallas, and Luke was atrocious against Phoenix. And that Kwame hasn't
been at his best since his injury back in November. But that doesn't mean that those three players
are worthless.

For example, Lamar averages 9.5 rebounds per game. That makes him a better rebounder than
some guys like Udonis Haslem, David West, Chris Bosh, Ben Wallace, Dirk Nowitzki and about 400
other guys in the league. Lamar also scores 13.2 points a game (which is down for him), which
isn't as good as his rebounding, but means he scores more than about 350 other NBA players.
Lamar is OVERPAID, yes. But not worthless. If you expect him to be the second best player on
a team, that team's probably not going to any championship games. But as a complementary player
he is very useful.

Kwame has size. You can't teach that. And when he's healthy, he actually has good enough
foot speed to play some valuable minutes on defense. His hands are made of basketball repellant,
and he tends to get sulky in games sometimes, but again he has use to a basketball team. And
again, Kwame is OVERPAID. But not worthless.

I'm not even sure if Luke is overpaid. There are people who play better than him that make less than
the MLE, but if you exclude players on their rookie contracts, then there aren't that many. But there
are plenty of people paid the MLE or more in the NBA that contribute less to their teams than Luke.
Luke is a glue guy. He does a little passing, a little shooting, a little rebounding, plays steady if
unspectacular defense, and doesn't have ego clashes with any of the stars. I guarantee you if you put
Ron Artest in as the starting SF, the level of play from the position would increase greatly, but the
clash of egos between Kobe and Artest would be immanent. If they're lucky, they could hold it together
for awhile like Shaq and Kobe did. If not, it would poison the locker room and make the whole team play
worse. You saw how many championships Artest won with another star in Indiana, Zero. And you saw what
he did to the chemistry of that team. Oh and by the way, forget it. THE LAKERS WILL NOT GET RON
ARTEST THIS YEAR. PERIOD.

>>>The bloggers have spoken.

And it's a good thing the bloggers don't make the roster. Every time the team lost a game, they'd
trade away a decent role player for someone worse. We'd end up with a worse roster than the
Knicks.

>>>It's not about emotion.

yes it is.

>>>Its about history.

Oh, history. Like that section of history from October 30, 2006 to January 14, 2007 when a Lakers
team that usually started Luke and Lamar earned the BEST RECORD IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE? Is that
the part of history you're referring to? Or does your grand timetable of history begin 5 games ago.

>>>I have defended LO/Puke/Kwamika for years.
>>>I will not defend them no more.
>>>To quote KB24: "ship their asses out."

Yeah, and we see how well that went. At the time, I was blogging right along with Kobe, Yeah, Yeah,
let's get Jason Kidd. But I kinda think Andrew Bynum has been more help to the Lakers this season
than Kidd would have. Kobe's a great evaluater of talent and so are you, clearly.

"Taxation without representation is unfair to the governed."

Well, technically, you're not governed by the Lakers management. The Lakers are.

If you want to take the capitalist approach, stop giving them money. It's a business, money talks. Of course, the hard part is getting the other few million fans to join you in your walk-out.

MR

I don't understand how a GM could watch Caron Butler dominate the end of a season, with little to no help, and then decide he's the piece to use as trade bait for a big. The small forward position wasn't covered by anyone that produced consistently except Kobe.

Caron did more in those months than Lamar has done to date in a Laker uniform. Just because you need a "serviceable" big, doesn't mean you have to trade a player that's carrying an injured roster for an interim coach right in front of Mitch's eyes.

Historically bad idea.

Faith,

>>>Our front office is only capable of small but good deals...like trading for Mo, or Trevor. But
>>>they're not capable of pulling off a big deal like KG...and yes JO.

You know, not every great team is built up on trades for great players. San Antonio's big three were
all drafted. They did get Kareem in a trade, but Magic? drafted Worthy? drafted B.Scott? drafted.

There is something to be said for keeping your good young players and letting their talent develop.

If they could have gotten KG, it would have been worth giving up anybody not named Kobe Bryant.
For Jermaine O'Neal, I'm no longer certain the Lakers would have improved from a trade of even
Lamar and change for him, let alone Bynum.

At this point, I kinda hope the Lakers keep all their young players (including Sasha if he'll sign for
cheap), as they have started building a chemistry that's pretty potent when everyone's healthy.

If the Lakers get to the Western Conference Finals this season (which I think is highly possible if
Bynum is healthy), then they'll only be about 1 piece away from being true contenders. And you
know what? Ron Artest is opting out of his contract. Jermaine O'Neal could opt out of his contract.
Antawn Jamison is a free agent. Shawn Marion can opt out of his contract. Elton Brand could opt
out of his contract. Most of them, if they do opt out, want to go to a winning team. And maybe
one of them will settle for a MLE for a couple of years for a shot at a ring.

But I think the Lakers get there by ADDING to most of the current core. Not by trading away one
good player and 2 or 3 role players for a star who's either aging and showing it or not quite
all-star level.

ReliFace,

>>>If the front office could play defense we'd be alright. It took Farmar awhile to warm up last night
>>>on offense, but he was porus on defense as was Sasha and of course Odom.

Excuse me? In the fourth quarter with both Farmar and Sasha on the floor the whole quarter,
Dallas made 7 shots and missed 15. That's 32% shooting. I'd hardly call that porous.

Lamar on the other hand was a sieve. No I take it back, he was like that retaining wall in the zoo that
was too low to keep the Tiger from getting out and killing people. Brandon Bass repeatedly shot over
Lamar and Lamar didn't even have his hands up.

Give Mitch Kupchak a break. The Caron Butler trade that landed Kwame Brown wasn't such a bad trade.

Signed,
The Milwaukee Bucks GM Who Traded Away Kareem Abdul Jabbar to the Lakers

Long Time Laker Fan:
Your long-winded blogs mean nothing.
Save your essays for college.
When the Lakers eventually win the championship, I hope LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder are long gone.
If LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder are still here when it happens: stay away from the Championship trophy.
Stay in the background with the groupies while those who proudly wear the Purple and Gold wet themselves with champagne.
Only KB24/Drewski/The Critter/The Razor (Trevor)/The Bruin (Jordan)/DJ/Fish/The Machine/Braveheart are allowed to be front and center.
LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder are garbage.
Period.
PS: when KB24 was raging against the front office during the summer, I stated to those that would listen:
Drewski/The Bruin/Braveheart/The Critter must stay (even if it meant losing KB24, which would have broken my heart).
KB24/Drewski/The Critter (who will be a star)/The Razor/The Bruin/The Machine/Braveheart/Fish=NBA Championship.
LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder=a free NBA Championship ring before they are released or traded.

Todd,

Why the heck shouldn't I want Artest? He's a fierce competitor. He's tough. He'll guard the other teams best player 1-4. He's a little off, but I like that he has fire rather than a passive, pot-smoking waste of a perfect basketball body and talent that is Lamar.

Why shouldn't I want Marion when we could have had him for Lamar when Lamar had one good playoff series?

Why shouldn't I want Kidd, the Nash that can defend, but not shoot as well? He's at least motivated to play hard by something beyond money like Bynum.

Webber comes with reservations, but a great passing big man in the triangle offense would be nice. He's a little soft and his defense is a little weak, but as a stop-gap, I'm way down with the guy.

Ak/Bk, please fix yesterday's game blog. The right side is cut off.

AK said:

"Seriously, is Walton really worth way less than Jason Kapono or Speedy Claxton?"

Um, yeah. Kapono is the one of the best 3 point shooters in the league! Look at how much Miami sucks without him. My recollection is that Claxton is better too. Luke is mad inconsistent, particularly on the offensive end. Maybe it's because he's hurt now and has to play so Vlad the Snowboarder can heal (instead of Vlad having to play hurt last year). Claxton's D can't possibly be any worse.

"Sometimes decisions don't work out, but there's a difference between decisions that don't work out and stupid decisions."

Nicely put. I swear we had to have some idea how much of a disaster Grant's contract had the potential to be. Strikes me as a bad decision. What other deals were available?

Drafting Cook? Okay. Holding him and resigning him? Bad.

Trading for Butler? Made sense. Taking for Kwame just because MJ who had self-interest in the matter said he was cool? Bad. Not telling Kobe that Caron was getting traded until like right before? Bad.

Trying to rebuild and guaranteeing your superstar you'd get championship caliber talent? Just really bad. Especially when you KNOW Kobe is so competitive.

Trying to rebuild a team mostly using low draft picks? Even though they've made some good picks, bad!

Not trading Lamar for Marion's huge contract when Lamar had one good series? Questionable, in retrospect, disasterous.

YOU EVER NOTICE said:

Whatever happened to the coaching style where, if you're playing bad you get pulled and if you're playing good you stay in till you can't breathe?

Also, if something isn't working, find a combination that does

Amen, brother.

Faith said:

Isn't the fact that we continue to hold onto and invest in players whose only potentials that have panned out have been injury prone---as much a product of how inept the front office is?

I'm well aware that injuries are a part of the game, but sometimes that's why you make a choice to go on your separate ways. God knows Orlando is reaping the rewards of no longer having TMac.

Word, sister.

Long Time Laker Fan:
LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder "will play well" when Drewski returns.
I will not forget how LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder played when Drewski was out.
LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder "will play well" when Drewski returns.
And Long Time Laker Fan will shout, "I told you so."
Please.
LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder are doo doo.
LO/Puke/Kwamika/The Snowboarder will alway be doo doo.
Drewski has a way of making doo doo smell like roses.
It might smell good, but it don't look good (doo doo is still doo doo).
Long Time Laker Fan: enjoy the aroma (I'll pass).
I will pinch my nostrils with my index finger and thumb to avoid the smell.

Matt R.

I agree that we're not governed here. But we will try knock their door gently. Let's see what is going to happen next.

I thought J.R. Smith got jobbed in that free throw contest. Supposedly it was about the best overall score for a dunk, which J.R. clearly had. It wasn't supposed to matter if it took a bunch of tries.

J.R. should have been in the top 2.

Well, at least this Anderson guy is athletic. Just as long as we don't make him a passing big man.

Guy can't even pass to himself!

"I'm not going to talk about it after a loss," Odom said. "I have to play consistent basketball and play well. I have to play consistently well, you know, for us to win. I'm not going to say anything emotional because we lost."

And thats always the case for lamar...

Is that all? Wow, talk about passivity

"This is Los Angeles and Laker Fans are not entirely dum-dum as the organization continue to ignore our querries and pleas. For all you know, many who are posting on this blog have higher educational attainment than Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson, perhaps not a degree in professional basketball but they can speak eloquently and offer some new ideas."

Cannot agree. Laker management shouldn't, and will not, make personnel decisions based on fan input. They don't get paid millions of dollars to get advice from fans. They won't divulge publicly their current plans or long-term strategies if it might compromise them in any way. That's beyond foolish.

Get a job in the NBA. Work your way up to a decision-making position. Then you can be the one taking the risks, actually doing something, actually proving something. Until then - go to games, stay home, watch cable, pore over box scores, cheer, boo, cry, complain, write letters to the editor, blog to your heart's content. If the organization is to have a chance at success, management needs to do what they're good at, and what they've worked their lives for. That wouldn't be listening to fans.

Kobe is garbage!!!!! To call him great only shows hwo the word great is over used. Whats great about him? If he's great then what should we call tons of other guys who actually win championships?

hey guys i think this is interesting, sorry if someone posted already

http://www.nba.com/news/cavslakers_080125.html

Coach’s Corner: Larry Brown on Cavs-Lakers
By Larry Brown

Brown

SEVEN THINGS TO WATCH

1. The Superstar Showdown: LeBron vs. Kobe

I always get a kick out of seeing who is going to guard who when the Lakers play Cleveland. Is Kobe going to guard LeBron? Is LeBron going to guard Kobe? That is always a key because if they guard each other, it takes away a little bit from their offense because they have to work so hard on defense and there is the chance of getting in foul trouble.

2. The Center Matchup: Kwame vs. Ilgauskas

It’s going to be an interesting matchup with Kwame playing Ilgauskas. In their blowout of the Wizards on Wednesday, Zydrunas was on fire, hitting 10-for-10 from the field. Obviously Cleveland is LeBron’s team, but when you look around our league, there aren’t a lot of legitimate centers who command double teams and can shoot a high percentage. Any time Ilgauskas plays well, it takes so much pressure off LeBron, and without Bynum, L.A. doesn’t have as much depth at all. The key for Kwame will be to stay out of foul trouble.

3. How will the Cavs Adjust to Sasha's Injury?

Cleveland has been playing much better since Sasha Pavlovic and Anderson Varejao returned because they’re depth has gotten better. Unfortunately the Cavs will be without Sasha now for six to eight weeks with a left foot injury. Will Ira Newble get the time? Will Devin Brown play more? They are both capable defenders and overall defensively, Cleveland has been playing better. Also the switch of Larry Hughes to point guard has really helped them play much more consistently.

4. Lamar Odom = Underrated

Lamar is one of the best players in our league and is possibly as underrated as anybody in the league. He rebounds unbelievably well (9.7 rpg this season), is a tremendous defender and a great ball handler. The way Phil Jackson plays him in their system, he can play any position. Any time he plays at a high level, the Lakers are as good as any team in the league. He and Ilgauskas are two guys who don’t get a lot of credit. When I look at Lamar, Garnett, Kirilenko, they fill up the stat sheet and their value isn’t always scoring the ball. Lamar makes everybody on his team better. I was fortunate to get to coach him on the Olympic team and he has always been someone I admired him from afar, but being around him on a daily basis, you realize that he’s a pretty special player.

5. Can the Cavs Limit the Lakers fastbreak?

With a long road trip staring the Lakers in the face, it’s important that they take care of business at home. In their building L.A. really gets up and down the floor and scores a lot of points (108.9 ppg). It is important for Cleveland to not allow them to control the tempo of the game. Any time you play L.A., if you can eliminate their fast break baskets, you have a much better chance of competing against them. If they get easy baskets and get out in transition, that is when they are at their best.

6. Increased Production From the Laker Bench

The Laker bench has been a real positive for this team this season. They’ve been hurt now with Ariza being out because he was doing a great job, but Farmar has come in and really, really played well. In order for the Lakers to keep playing at this high level, guys like Farmar and Turiaf have got to continue to play equally as well.

Jordan in particular looks like a different player from last year. He looks better physically. Remember he learned the game under Ben Howland at UCLA, a guy who I really admire. He’s a hell of a coach, so I think any kid coming from that program is going to be well schooled as to how to play the right way. I also didn’t realize he had such range shooting the ball. I thought he was a mid range jumpshooter. He’s making three point shots now at a very good percentage (39%). But confidence has been a huge factor too and I think a lot of it is because Kobe has started to trust these kids more and more. The fact that Kobe can do so much and draw so much attention, he’s enabled these guys to be in a position where they can be successful.

7. The Multi-faceted Game of Kobe

In my eyes, Kobe has always been as good a player as we have in our sport. I have always felt that people tried to look for faults in Kobe, but he’s one of the only superstars in our league who night in and night out guards the best player and also has the responsibility to score the ball and lead his team. I believe that he’s realizing that with so many young kids, he has to be more of a facilitator at times to allow them to be threats. That has really helped their team. There were times in the past where he probably felt like no matter what he did, he had to carry the load. Now I think there are times in the game where he tries to get everybody involved like Michael did. In doing so, we’ve seen the emergence of Bynum, Farmar, Turiaf, a lot of these young guys. When it comes to MVP discussion, Kobe is a guy that I put way at the top of the list because he makes everybody better, he plays both ends of the court, and he impacts every game by all the things that he does.

.-----------------------------------------------------------

check out no 4 ;) Lamar, Lamar, Lamar..

Odom probably will play better today but it won't make any impact on the game.
All he can do for us is get 15 rebounds.
He just does not make any impact.

The reserves and younger players will have to help Kobe and D-Fish pull this one out.

Cleveland looks stronger than this current team without the injured Lakers players.

This loss could be the start of hell with the road trip coming up.
We've got a VERY deep Detroit team on Thursday that I don't think we can beat without Bynum helping Kobe unless the Pistons are not interested.
So the Cleveland and NY games are EXTREMEMLY HUGE.

Washington is licking their chops for us next Sunday.

Antawn Jamison will outplay Odom and Kobe will outplay Caron Butler.

That one is a toss up but homecourt could make the difference.

Bynum's growth as well as the young players and the bench has allowed
Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown to hide all year.

As Brian Cook, Smush Parker, and Mo Evans were cast off from that terrible regime from last yr,

Odom, Walton, and Brown were apart of the same lackluster mindset/approach that made us leave the playoffs right away last yr.

Now people are seeing once again why KOBE went off.
I don't blame him.

im gonna put it out there again . . .

the only thing holding us back from greatness would be to trade

Kwame "no hands less talent" Brown
Chris "buy me an ankle" Mihm
Lamar "all heart no passion" Odom
and as many draft picks possible

for

Pau Gasol
Brian Cardinal
Darko "maybe 4th team is the charm" Milicic

---- Given Memphis' current roster, they would appreciate us taking Brian Cardinal, he is like Kwame, so i dont expect much from him, in fact, if we bought him out, it would be to our benefit. How he got someone to sign him for what he got has to be total extortion. Given our propensity for injury we could use him.

---- Project Darko hasnt worked out well for the Grizz so far, here is to hoping that they are ready to start from square 1. Maybe we can get something out of him, Either way, we take a contract I'm sure they already regret off of their hands.

---- Pau Gasol, the "superstar" who just wanted to be good. Gasol is not a superstar. He lacks clutch and he lacks 'it" He is masquerading as the #1 in Memphis because they have no one else, but as a #2 or a #3 he could shine, damn he could be brilliant. Added to that, with Bynum, he wouldnt be required to guard the block thus allowing him freer range on his offensive side. Add to THAT, the fact that he would make any opposing 4 tired by having to cover him 1 on 1. He could relish the fact that he gets to play with his brother, and probably could lean on Memphis management to let him come to the Best Coast.

---------------------

Mihm - just a throw in, contract comes off the blocks soon enough
Kwame - what could have been, supreme garbage, and it shows. Now forth, he will be known as the "expiring contract with Kwame Brown's signature"
Lamar - dude cant play the triangle. Just flat out, doesnt comprehend what it takes. Could be good in a free system

Draft Picks, 2008 1st and 2nd round(not protected) 2010 (unconditional)
---- ppl hold on to draft picks as they were gold, but usually in the end they are worthless, esp since we have such great young talent in the pipeline. Farmar, Ariza, Crit, Bynum, and this doesnt even include Marc Gasol, and Sun Yue. Who we couldnt bring over because of Roster limitations. We are already one of the youngest teams in the L, why not grow around this nucleus. Plus Gasol and Darko are still young enough to where they can be productive for years to come not to mention they are a known quantity with value as opposed to the unknown. You only go for the unknown if you desperate, ie Memphis. We on the other hand are contending for titles, we dont have the time and energy to take those picks and teach them up to be contenders, we need to concentrate on getting over the hump. True, this would put us over the cap, but honestly, we werent gonna be under it anytime soon. Kobe will take at least 17 mill, plus the extensions for bynum, farmar, crit, and the rest.

we would be set for at least a decade, even after kobe leaves, because gasol is still signed for a few years beyond Kobe. And quite honestly, im sure we can find the athletic wing players without a home to go with or fearsome front line of Gasol and Bynum. No one would ever challenge us ever again. Esp with farmar and crit serving the rock at the 1 and 2 (if kobe leaves) and ariza shutting down people at the 3 and bynum and gasol raking in the middle. we would be untouchable.

Exhelo

"Compare this team's moves to the moves of the rest of the league, and you will see that they are in the top third"

True, and after so many years in the top spot, the Lakers get to see how the other third lives.

celtic fan,

"If he's great then what should we call tons of other guys who actually win championships?"

Kobe won 3 rings buddy. That's more than KG, Paul Pierce, or Ray Allen will ever sniff. There's more on the way too. While your Celtics are battling age, salary cap, and depth issues, we're going to be sitting pretty with a dominant center and the league's best player competing for championships each and every year.

Enjoy your moment Celtic fan. Soon enough you'll have to endure another 20 years of humiliation as you guys have mortgaged your future on aging players. In a couple years, you guys won't be any better than the Miami Heat. haha The Celtics suck! I think Danny Ainge is a buffoon, always has been.

I just thought I'd throw a post in. I guess you can't go wrong hating on the Celtics. I could just go on and on about how sorry the Celtics are. The Lakers are the greatest basketball franchise, there's no doubt about it. No basketball club can endure 20 years straight of humiliating itself and continue to call itself the best. While the Lakers just continue to reload and win. We won a championship in '03 and we're already back in the mix, with a whole new team except Kobe.

It's Laker pride. Celtic pride left along with the ghosts of Celtics past. Now you have to rely on perennial losers in KG, Ray Allen, and Paul Peirce, with no bench whatsoever. You guys have Brian Scalabrine on your squad; 'nuff said.

Ahhh...that was fun.

The future is bright for our Lakers and I'm very happy about that. We're not one of those teams that mortgages the future for a chance at 1 championship. We're doing this the right way. Drafting Andrew Bynum with the 10th pick was just an absolute genius move. He's going to be our anchor for the next ten years at least.

Go Lakers!

"If he's great then what should we call tons of other guys who actually win championships?"

We should call them fortunate. Just think, now that Garnett, Pierce, and Allen are together, they have a chance to join the ranks of guys who actually win championships. They'll only be two behind Kobe.

passionate Lakers Fan...what the heck's up with you? If you're gonna make an argument, make it. If all you're gonna do is slag somebody, then e-mail them and stop wasting our time. Seriously dude, wipe the foam from your mouth and chill a bit.

Ex - I hear what you're saying, but I think the team is gonna make the playoffs anyway. And if we're healthy, and in a good rhythm, that's our best shot at beating the top teams. This year, I don't know that the match-ups are going to matter that much. There are five or six teams inthe west capable of beating each other any given night. I just think we need to put ourselves inthe best position to do that, and limping into the playoffs isn't going to get it done. Just my two cent's worth.

I think that the Laker FO's vision for this team has proven to be pretty sound....when the entire team is healthy. Completely healthy, this is a team with a lot of depth and balance. The unfortunate and short sighted part of their vision is that the several of the players they have chosen for the team are injury prone. Vlad, Mihm, Luke, LO,Kwame are all fragile and have succumbed to injuries which have cost them major time and slowed the development of the team. Durability is a skill in its own right.

The most disappointing thing about the Vlad Rad signing to me was that the Lakers seemed to choose him over a chance to acquire Chris Wilcox. I've always wondered how much of the signing of Rad was centered at weakening the Clippers, who were doing pretty well at the time and seemed on the verge of challenging the Lakers as the best team in the Staples Center. Wilcox or Vlad seemed like a no brainer to me. I have never liked one dimensional big men, especially when their speciality is 3 point shooting. Guys like Peja and Tim Thomas come to mind. Imagine a front court of Wilcox, Bynum and Odom! I know a lot of people want to run Lamar out of LA, but I think that his game has value, especially when he is not counted on so heavily to score. That being said, I agree that he needs to get his azz in gear. 15 points in 2 games against the Western elite is not going to get it.

Big game today. BOUNCE BACK TIME!!! GO LAKERS!!!!

Rick-

Got it. Thanks.

BK

Amar K

Good post. Larry Brown's take on Lamar sounds like the standard PR spin that came with LO from Miami the first year.

He would flourish on a team packed with all stars like team USA but who can afford more all stars after you pay him?

He's got a great skill set without the instinct to know when and how to use it. At this point I'd be happy if he would just stop shooting 3s.

HAHAHAHAHAH.........

Dont mind me im just laughing at the airheads on this blog.............
When I was saying dont resign luke..........
The airheads were trying to sell me on luke,saying he was the 2nd most important player behind KOBE..........
an to see the same airheads saying trade luke......LOL........that's funny 2 me.
An when I said trade lamar an start RONNY T at the 4..........
I was told lamar would have a break out season an become an ALL-STAR this year..........
When DREW went down I said trade kwame an lamar for WILCOX..........
before teams really see how worthless they are............ it's to late you cant even give them away now......lol
You airheads know who you are, an I know who you are.............
but im not going to name names........but know im laughing at you...lol

COMPTON

celtic fan:
"Kobe is garbage!!!!! To call him great only shows hwo the word great is over used. Whats great about him? If he's great then what should we call tons of other guys who actually win championships?"

Mmmmm....also great?

HOPEFULLY WE GET VLAD BACK SOON..............

Yes im a vlad fan I like his game still.........
I blame PJ for not knowing how to use is players........
VLAD AN PEJA are pretty much the same type players.............
but look how the hornets use's PEJA.....an look how the lakers use's VLAD....
they set up an run play for PEJA, how come we dont run any plays for VLAD one of the best shooters on the team......... HELL in the GAME........
when ever he get's back I think he would have a bigger impact than most of you guy's give him credit for...

COMPTON

Ross,

I respectfully disagree with you on that. I'm not saying to have a constant dialogue with fans but perhaps, once a year talk to the fans in a direct and