Grizzlies star Pau Gasol is from Spain. What's Spanish for "The Lakers should beat the crap out of this team?"
-AK
Comments
Hello all, wow, it's been almost two years since I've posted, but I have been reading!! Great job AK/BK. This is for those that want to watch the game online just click on this url or copy and paste it and there ya go! Unforunately, it's the Grizzlies announcers but hey, atleast we get to watch.
Lakers closed the quarter with some nice defense and some nice shooting by Fish, Kobe and LO. Lakers are really tough to defend when their sharing the ball. Twice the Griz try to lob it to Gasol only to have Andrew step in and cause two turnovers.
it's not so much the makes...though that's nice thanks, but how easy it is. He's a step slow in everything from rotations to guarding his own man making it easy for them. The only reason we have the lead (though we started to pick it up with TA on the floor) is coz they're worst than us in defense.
it's not so much the makes...though that's nice thanks, but how easy it is. He's a step slow in everything from rotations to guarding his own man making it easy for them. The only reason we have the lead (though we started to pick it up with TA on the floor) is coz they're worst than us in defense.
We're not that bad on D, part of the reason why we give up so many points is because we play at such a fast pace. Of course we're not as good as Boston, SA or Detroit on the defensive side of the ball but we're pretty good.
I do agree that we're better defensively with Ariza and a little better overall with him, though. I just don't want you to be so upset. :) lol
I agree. I'm still having nightmares about Chris Paul's Brokeback offense lol. The Grizz aren't bad offensively though, they're averaging 100 points a night.
Aside from the reason you (X) just cited (upped pace), the other reason the Lakers give up more points is the turnovers. I haven't been able to track down the exact stat (if it's even kept), but I'm willing to bet the Lakers are in the top-10 for points allowed in transition. If they cut that habit down, the numbers would be more indicative of the D otherwise being played, which has improved quite a bit.
Bad finish to the 2nd quarter there... Offense got stagnant. Kobe tried to
do too much instead of moving the ball. Lakers need to come out in the third and step on their throats.
second quarter i thought was horrible. we didn't run the offense. we tried to run too much with the second unit on the floor,
then wehn the starters came back in they started to extend the lead, but they got away from what got them the lead inthe first
place.they need to go inside out more. bynum hasnt been looked for at all this game. kobe isnt letting the game come to him. he
is foring the issue and its not boding well for the team. it wasnt very fun basketball towatch for the most part. not enough
passing and not enough assists.too much one on one.
in the second quarer for a couple of mins we looked really good with lamar and kobe farmar trevor and i think kwame or bynum,
after starters all came in,we didnt look so fluid in our offense.
Our turnovers led to fast break points you're right AK.
But check out our fast break D...there's often only one back...sometimes 2. You expect to be undermanned in fast breaks...but you're supposed to run as fast as you can to get back...I don't see us doing that much.
Oh, don't get me wrong. The transition D is still a weak area. Which is why they need to cut down the turnovers. Granted, as you point out, some of it can be effort. But at the same time, this team doesn't really have the athleticism or enough good individual defenders to whip back and cover with continual success. Obviously, they should never stop trying to improve, but the more sensible and realistic method to help would be nixing the TO's. Do that and they'll find themselves defending more while set, where they actually have improved.
Not having the athleticism and the individual defenders (though outside of a choice few, I think we got ourselves good possibilities on individual defenders if they just work on it)...makes it more imperative we challenge shots.
Challenging shots is sometimes just as simple as putting your hand up there lol.
Mr. Kupchak,
I'd like to take a moment and apologize to you personally, not only for the numerous ways, I attacked your competency, intellect, heart and desire to keep the Laker Organization, synonymous with greatness, but for second guessing what the "Logo" himself, instilled in you as his personal protégé'.
Watching the 07-08 Lakers, its become apparent to me, my armchair GM'ing would've set the franchise back years now in hindsight. The core nucleus of the team is young, quick, athletic and appears to have a tremendous upside with unlimited potential. The acquisition of Ariza was brilliant in terms of the "fit" for the team and by now, its no secret Bynum has progressed into something a lot of us scoffed at as little as 9 months ago, and now, outside of KG, D.Howard and "maybe" 1 or 2 others, there isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal for the Kareem protégé' now.
You stuck to your guns Mitch, you took one for the Buss family. You did the unthinkable. You told the best individual nba player since Jordon,to shut up, do YOUR job and allow me to do MINE. You put your nads on the chopping block when most of us Laker fans wanted to chop them. I see flashes of brilliance with this young team, I see flashes of a Jerry West, shrewdly and quietly constructed, mini dynasty in the making. Although I believe we're still one, maybe two more pieces away from Championship status, I have a restored sense of faith that you, not only learned a thing or two from the Logo, but you're blazing your own trail now and leaving YOUR fingerprints on the organization and in my own humble opinion, doesnt look bad at all. Not at all.
Miller's willingness to play off the bench in the past, along with having spent a lot of time with mediocre teams, has led a LOT of people to underate him, I think. Your fellow alum can play. Not a sick athlete, but his all around game is pretty solid. I'd love to have that guy on the Lakers. Seems like a great triangle fit to boot.
Miller is definitely underrated, he can shoot with the best of them. And how many guys can say they've led their alma mater's to the NCAA title game, won rookie of the year, 6th man of the year and play for the US National team.
He's not a superstar by any means, but he'd be a valuable cog on a championship contending team.
This game was never in doubt... I don't mind the lapses... I think sometimes
the starters lose their rhythm in the 2nd game of the back-to-back when
none of them play at all in the 4th.
Let me tell you why! Did you see the Grizzles defense? It was actually pretty good. They played Bynum very well! They were waiting for everything Bynum had been doing. Milicic, Gasol, and Swift were sticking to him pretty good. Bynum hit 5 out of 11 shots, which was pretty good because there was defensive resistance!
The eight first half points were pretty good. 2 off of a inside position. 2 points off a lay-up. 2 points on a pic' 'n roll. And 2 points off of a couple of free throws.
Now the first 2 points Andrew had to fight for position and got his bucket.
The points off of the lay-up were good because they came off of our defense and led to the transition basket. And the two free throws. Those are good points to me because they came off fighting against a defense that was actually paying attention to him.
The points that I consider to be "garbage" are when teams are playing lousy defense. That stuff is just garbage to me.
But the Lakers, tonight, were scoring off of their defense. The other thing that caught my eye was when the 2nd unit came in there was no change in philosophy. The spacing and the set up of the offense looked like the 1st units. That was cool!
"I wonder why Phil hasn't played Bynum and Fish in the fourth."
I just followed on Gamecast but I have to believe tonight was a good time to get D-Fish some rest and also give Kwame some minutes to get back in game shape. This thing never seemed close from my vantage point, so it's a good time to get some guys some rest, others some run.
Tomorrow night is a pretty big game, my guess is PJ feels the same.
Another double digit, in control the entire game, win for the Lakers.
I wonder why PJ rested Fisher and Bynum (and Odom most of the time) in the 4th, but kept Bryant on the floor for 40 minutes, considering that we a have a huge back-to-back game tomorrow.
Is he that serious about being 100% sure that we close the deal on the Grizzlies and get the win or is it related to not having a reliable SG backup because Vujacic is injured and Crittenton did not play well in the last couple games?
The one pic' 'n roll play with Bynum and Kobe was good to me because it came only once in the game. It only came once because the Grizzles defense was on guard. When a team plays proper defense the most you're going to get off a pic' 'n roll 2 maybe 4 points. If the teams gets 6 points off of the pic' 'n roll...well, that's just bad defense by the opponent.
So that one pic' 'n roll play by Kobe and Bynum in the first half was good as gold to me because it involved a little slip created by Kobe and Bynum. The defender was actuall there. But that little space was just enough to get Andrew to the basket. That beautiful because the defense resistance was there. They took that pic' 'n roll despite the defense.
When the defense is good that's all the pic' 'n roll you're supposed to get.
The weird thing about is that Kobe played virtually the whole fourth. I think he was trying to buy those guys some rest too, but it seems strange that he'd rest the other guys but play Kobe 40 minutes.
Outgoing Players: Vladimir Radmanovic, Kwame BrownNew York Knicks
Incoming Players
Vladimir Radmanovic
Salary: $5,632,200 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 7.4 REB: 2.7 AST: 1.6 PER: 11.35
Kwame Brown
Salary: $9,075,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.7 REB: 5.0 AST: 1.4 PER: 10.76
Outgoing Players: Jerome James, Eddy Curry
This trade would help both teams. It would put Curry with odom,kobe,fish, & bynum. Now thats a nice starting five. It would give the knicks some space for the off season because the season is over for them. Tell me what you think.
LO came in for the last like minute and a half when memphis had cut the lead to twelve. I think Kobe played because Phil wanted him to get out of his funk. That didn't really happen but Kobe didn't exert a whole bunch of energy when he was out there anyways because the game was pretty well in hand. Basically all the starters except Kobe rested the whole fourth quarter and Kobe's will be just fine, wind wise, for tomorrow. We should be able to come out strong tomorrow against the Hornets. With their four days of rest, their might, just might, be some rust and an oppurtunity at the very beginning of the game (first couple minutes, at most) to start strong and lock in on defense. Pleased with the win tonight, and expecting a good game tomorrow. There is absolutely no excuse to be blown out tomorrow. We shall see. My gut feeling? I think we find a way, as we have all season. C'mon Lakeshow!
Great observations and posts tonight regarding the game. I agree that this was a good game and the post defense by two 7 footers in Milicic and Gasol would be tough on Andrew. It was good to see him try a couple of different things against them tonight because they were determined to make things tough for him in the paint. One thing I think Andrew can do better is when he catches the ball under the rim or backboard he needs to back into the defender and go up strong so that he'll either power it in or get a call. Twice he caught the ball underneath the basket and had it blocked by because he tried to finesse it in. This was a good game in the trenches tonight.
Also, one thing that I like that Kwame does really well is get out on the break. He gets out quick for easy dunks which is great. Andrew sometimes lags behind, but he's doing much better this year at getting back. Also good to see our team doing a better job of holding the lead. Go Lakers!!!
The weird thing about is that Kobe played virtually the whole fourth. I think he was trying to buy those guys some rest too, but it seems strange that he'd rest the other guys but play Kobe 40 minutes.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:36 PM
I think PJ just wanted to keep a scorer and someone who can create his own shot and get to the free throw line in there because the second unit still was a little shaky in the second quarter. I don't think he wanted to take the chance of sitting all the starters and then have to bring them back if the second unit can't maintain the lead. Notice how even in the second quarter PJ had LO out there with the second unit. PJ's just trying to keep things under control. Besides, Jordan and Kwame were doing pretty good in the fourth so there was no need to bring Fish and Andrew back in. Great coaching tonight.
Any win in the NBA is a great win. and we did it while resting a lot of guys for tomarrow, very important.
One thing though that we need to work on. When Andrew is sandwitched by 2 seven footers Lamar really needs to become more agressive offensively then he was tonight. Not too many teams have a big front line but the ones that do are going to cheat on Andrew. Its up to Lamar or whoever else is playing the 4 to make them pay.
Will David West be in the lineup tomorrow night for the Hornets?
We need to come out very aggressive tomorrow night because Byron Scott has mainly stuck with his starters lately because his bench has been ineffective. I think we should stay home on the shooters and take them away and let Paul try to beat us with his scoring. Peja and West always seem to have really good games against us. This time we have LO in the lineup as well. We'll see, go Lakers!!!
Wow just checked out the standings. The Lakers are still in the 6th spot but are only a game and a half out of the top seed. I cant remember it ever being this close this late. Its really going to be a wild season. This make tomarrows game even more important. Luke was o.k on Gay tonight but I think we should start Trevor tomarrow. With Paul on the floor we will need someone quick enough to both help and recover on Peja so he doesnt burn us like the last time.
Curry? Curry? and Jerome James? You must be a Knick fan. Talk about two players in this league that have less heart and passion for the game than Kwame. If you think
Kwame's rebounding is anemic...maybe you should look at Curry's. He doesn't even play defense.
Oh and the cherry on top: The Eddy Curry Line
The Eddy Curry Line was originally established to put a spotlight on how truly anemic Curry's overall fantasy line is. The standard: a player must average more turnovers than assists, steals, and blocks combined – in order to qualify, a player must have appeared in at least half of his team's games and averaged at least 25 minutes of playing time.
OMG....I can't believe Mike T was complimentary. I'm in total shock, flabbergasted, stumped. If Mike T continues like this you can take me off the Bandwagon ;o)
Great win tonight. Here are some of my observations:
--I'd like to see more defensive rebounds from the Lakers
--The Crit has the same mustache Darryl Strawberry used to have
(Both may be related to Dino from The Flintstones)
--Gasol is better than I thought
We need to mentally prepare to stop Chris Paul CP3 and win against NOH.
Great win tonight. Here are some of my observations:
--I'd like to see more defensive rebounds from the Lakers
--The Crit has the same mustache Darryl Strawberry used to have
(Both may be related to Dino from The Flintstones)
--Gasol is better than I thought
We need to mentally prepare to stop Chris Paul CP3 and win against NOH.
Again the West is stacked - so any win is crucial when seating in the playoffs could be determined by a few games difference or even season series match up. So the Lakers need to beat up people now, and during the super long road trip at the beginning of February. Thrashings like tonight against inferior competition is helpful. It appears that the Lakers picked the Grizzlies apart tonight. They wanted to stop the inside game, so Fisher and Kobe killed them. Points wise, they were the difference in the game. The rest of the team in terms of production wash pretty much a wash.
Yes that jackie johnson is physically fit to say the least!
Wow Darko was picked 2nd overall in 2003. Seems like people have been talking about that guy forever. Andrew obviously was picked for many of the same reasons (raw young project) in 2005. I know that he languished on the bench in Detroit, but man, Bynum is easily a better player than Darko. Got to give FO props for that. Aside from this game, Bynum is lights years ahead of Darko in development. They are playing about the same number of minutes (28 for Andrew and 25 Darko), but Bynums numbers are about double of Darko's (except blocks) and shooting a much higher percentage.
Any win in the NBA is a great win. and we did it while resting a lot of guys for tomarrow, very important.
One thing though that we need to work on. When Andrew is sandwitched by 2 seven footers Lamar really needs to become more agressive offensively then he was tonight. Not too many teams have a big front line but the ones that do are going to cheat on Andrew. Its up to Lamar or whoever else is playing the 4 to make them pay.
Mh
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 08:09 PM
Mike H,
Really good post and observation. LO definitely could've been more aggressive tonight because Gasol was sagging to help Milicic with Andrew. Memphis does have a big frontline and I imagine that's how it would be for us if we ever play Kwame at the 4 alongside Andrew and LO, now that would be a big lineup. Fortunately our shooters hit outside shots, because they were trying to crowd and clog the lane. Hopefully we'll be ready tomorrow against the Hornets. Go Lakers!!!
Nice to see us get these wins against the weaker teams that we struggled with last year. Shows improvement, growth and maturation especially from the young guys. Go Lakers!!!
Maybe I am misunerstanding you but there is no such thing as garbage points. The pick and roll is the most basic of basketball plays. Parker and Duncan are great at it. Stockton and Malone made a living with it. Any offense should work to get as close to the basket for the easiest shot possible. Fact is we dont run the pick and roll enough. Lamar with his length should have more run for him. trevor with his leaping ability should have more run for him. I would love for Andrew to get ten dunks a night, it opens up the rest of the offense. Why do you think Fish at 33 is having a carreer year? Much more space because of those garbage dunks!!
First off - I can't believe that Burger King discontinued the Whopper!
Sweet blowout by the Lakers, I was worried this would be a close game, but I think Derek Fisher took care of that.
I never imagined Fisher would have this much of an influence on the team, but man, he does make a difference!
I think that Kobe inadvertently saved Bynum's career with the "ship his a--" comments.
I doubt that Bynum's work ethic would have been such as it is without that impetus, because I don't think it was that great before then.
New Orleans is going to be a great test. Let's hope Bynum can show some strength against the shot blocking skills of Tyson Chandler.
Thanks for the props. Ya Andrew, Kwame, and Lamar would truely be a jumbo line up. But unless Kwame can develope a mid range jumper, it probably wouldnt work on offense. Kwames man would just sag to the middle. This would also take away Andrew and some of Kobe and Lamars penetration as well. But if Kwame could make that jumper to keep defenses honest, my goodness, it would mean a ring for sure. Hey Mike T, get your boy out on the court, for at least 500 mid range jumpers a day. If he can learn to hit that shot we would really be hard to beat.
Thanks for the props. Ya Andrew, Kwame, and Lamar would truely be a jumbo line up. But unless Kwame can develope a mid range jumper, it probably wouldnt work on offense. Kwames man would just sag to the middle. This would also take away Andrew and some of Kobe and Lamars penetration as well. But if Kwame could make that jumper to keep defenses honest, my goodness, it would mean a ring for sure. Hey Mike T, get your boy out on the court, for at least 500 mid range jumpers a day. If he can learn to hit that shot we would really be hard to beat.
MH
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Aloha MH,
Man, I miss living in Oahu. I love the islands and I hope someday to make it back there.
I think tomorrow night's game is a test for both the Hornets and the Lakers. Both the Hornets and Lakers have beaten the other western powers and the Hornets beat us early in the year with LO and Kwame out with injuries. We match well with them and hopefully our bench gives us better production. I'd rather make Paul beat us with his scoring and keep his mates in check because his mates, Peja in particular killed us in our first matchup. We also didn't have Ariza back then and he can guard Peja at times. Should be interesting and fun. Go Lakers!!!
Lakers live there alive there alive; is that weird science or is it the fact that will take over the NBA.
My Roll Call
KB
FISH
LAMAR
TA
DREW
RONNY
LUKE
JORDAN
CRIT
CAKEMAN
GHOSTS OF LAKERS PAST
HUNDLEY
SHARMAN
BAYLOR
WEST
GAIL
WILT
KERMIT
HAPPY
MEL
RILES
NIXON
MAJIC
COOP
BY
JAMES
MAC
CHONES
RAMBO
GREEN
MT
AND ALL EXCEPT
THE GLOVE
MALONE
SHAQ
AND ALL CELTIC BEINGS MAY THEY DROWNED IN THEIR OWN VOICES
Part of an article in the Miami Herald after the Heat lost to the TWolves tonight and fell to 8-27 on the season.
Despite the struggles, the Heat has not conceded anything yet.
''It's still a lot of basketball left,'' Haslem said. ``I know we keep saying it, but it is. We still have an opportunity if we make the right moves to get to the playoffs."
Is the East that weak or is Haslem smoking something? Probably both.
i agree...totally agree that kobe saved bynum's...i dont think it ever resulted toa good decision on the part of kupcake but i would say it was an impact, a real good impact of what
kobe had done in that parking lot...that video made bynum to strive more, to work real hard and to value discipline...had that video did not came out, bynum would be still
that flat, slow foot big guy....i mean, its a blessing in disguise...now i reached the wisdom of KB24....
is Mike T kidding? Memphis is one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA by every statistic and the lakers got any shot they wanted, Fisher doesnt make 10-11 FGs every night.
If Kobe played the whole/most of the 4th I would say that's because with Sasha out there really isn't healthy and Crittenton has been shaky of late. If the lead was in the 14-17 range, a quick 7/9-0 run could make it a game again and with Kobe and Four Guys out there you know that is was never going to dip below 12.
Plus, with all the blowouts lately, maybe Kobe asked for more minutes :)
He's sat out a couple 4th quarters this year...for good reasons.
Somebody made a post about trading for Ed Curry, i actually think the Lakers should trade for Curry but insist that David Lee be included for any combination of Lamar, Brown, Vlad, Mihm and Crit.
Brown for Okur? Are you kidding? Okur is going to come in for Bynum and do what? Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Kwame is starting to hustle. A lot. He's still clumsy, but the hustle is a big change. He's looking to score like I've never seen him do, and he's really running the floor (great dunk on a breakaway yesterday).
Deal or No Deal? NO DEAL! Kwame stays. We're going to need him in the playoffs when Andrew gets in foul trouble. And he's definitely showing signs of coming to life.
"Though some utah fans are asking for a Brown for Okur trade, I don't think that makes the team better defensively. Any thoughts on this guys?"
Michael H, Thanks for the reply!
Posted by: Charles | January 09, 2008 at 08:26 AM
Charles,
Great post and information. If we're trying to maintain a defensive edge we shouldn't make this trade because Kwame gives us more defensively. However Okur is a pretty good outside shooter for a big man and grabs boards pretty consistently. Okur could also play 5 and the 4 spot and he has a good offensive post/face up game which could open things more for Andrew down low. Okur is also a good passing big man playing in Sloan's system. Kwame would make Utah's frontline better defensively. It mostly trading off defense for offense which I don't think we're going to do. Thanks. Go Lakers!!!
If I was Phil Jackson.....(obviously I'm not) I would start Kwame over Bynum against the Hornets. Obviously Bynum is a starter but the bench mob needs Andrew as an anchor.
I think our bench is WAY more productive with Bynum while our starters still have Kobe.
Just read 2 responses to me a couple of threads ago. There are many decaffeinated brands that taste just as good as regular grind.
I either need to make my sarcasm plainer or you need to read all the words and punctuation. Either way, unless your agenda is to instruct and rule the blog mind set, let me think what the rest of the NBA thinks, Luke is a bit athletically challenged at this level and he's not all we have at the position now.
You're one of the best informed and sensible word smiths 'round here, and I was just havin' fun, which is what this is supposed to be. They call it "playing" basketball.
Kobe inspired Bynum and Bynum saved Kobe from deciding hastily of leaving the 2nd biggest market for bad teams and both of them saving the job of Cupcake and the image of the dysfunctional family.
Now the FO cheerleaders on this blog are saying Cupcake should be Executive of the Year!!! what for doing nothing! Since when, did someone got a promotion for doing nothing?
I saw Vlade Divac in the Sixers game, may I know what has he accomplished so far with the foreign recruits? aside from contacting Vladrad before he was recruited in Serbia.
"Now the FO cheerleaders on this blog are saying Cupcake should be Executive of the Year!!! what for doing nothing! Since when, did someone got a promotion for doing nothing?"
When the right move may very well have been not making a move at all.
Agree AK, he made the right move for doing nothing because he is one of the insiders who know what's going on with Bynum. He has the inputs while we just have the outburst based on their historical performance. The point of Jonjay, if not with Kobe's rants, Bynum will not be motivated. Everyone in the roster got forewarned of what is coming if they don't do their best.
The same way, I hope other will not blame the bloggers here for being animated or excited in their posts, they just want to save the enterprise. Their motivation is to uphold the superior standards of the purple and gold and dispel mediocrity. If the Lakers continued with Smush and the scrubby plays of the past, Kobe and PJ will say goodbye then how long do you expect us to be again in the thick of the fight. Right now, we're not that excellent, just good and continue to be very good.
""Now the FO cheerleaders on this blog are saying Cupcake should be Executive of the Year!!! what for doing nothing! Since when, did someone got a promotion for doing nothing?"
When the right move may very well have been not making a move at all."
Exactly. Or how about signing D-Fish? I know people say that one was gift wrapped, but he got it done. And the year is nowhere near over. The trading chip that is Kwame Brown could be used to get a piece that puts us in a position to win a championship.
Executive of the Year is a stupid award anyway since most teams are built over the course of multiple years, not just one.
It's not a question of "buying into the lochness." I'm not claiming Kupchak is making people say "R.C Buford who?" But fairness means acknowledging when somebody has done well for themselves. And right now, it's hard to argue that Kupchak's decisions over the last 365 days or so haven't been pretty good.
He could have folded to pressure to trade Bynum in the proposed deals for Kidd or JO, but didn't. And Laker fans should be thrilled he didn't, because the team would be significantly worse if he had. In the meantime, the Lakers were willing to part with Bynum to get KG, meaning he did have the proper perspective.
The trade for Ariza has been fantastic. The Lakers have undoubtedly come ahead in that one.
And even if you wanna argue that Fisher "fell into Kupchak's lap," he still brought him into the fold and wouldn't be the first GM to benefit from a lucky break.
And that's not even getting into drafting Bynum or Farmar in the first round (with Critter also looking like a keeper) or Walton and Turiaf, who are absolute successes for second round picks.
Obviously, there have been mistakes on Kupchak's part, but they're also increasingly becoming a matter of issues past, not present. If you wanna keep clinging to the past when judging Kupchak, that's your perogative. But you should at least acknowledge that you're not willing to move beyond the past. Again, I'm not saying Kupchak is the perfect GM or poster child for perfection. But to dish against him without even recognizing what's gone well isn't really fair. I'm not even sure there's a point in doing so.
Also, letting Fish go to Golden State (because the Warrior's contract offer was ridiculously high) had absolutely nothing to do with Payton getting traded to Boston. GP was traded to Boston in part because the Lakers wanted size (Mihm) and in part because GP played poorly with the Lakers. And hasn't really played well since. Retaining Payton would have been pretty stupid.
I agree partly on your post to give some credits back to Cupcake for choosing Farmar and Critt (he has to choose somepne, isn't it? and nobody picked on these guys so it fell into his lap.) but he is still a Cupcake for acting irreponsibly as a GM when Big Ego was traded hastily, this time he made good by sticking to his guns on Bynum. As I said he knew the info on Bynum, we don't, however he pleaded with Rod Thorn and even got insulted by Thorn & reprimanded "not to call him again if he cannot give his request", Cupcake pleaded. Again with Larry Bird, he was about to ship Socks & LO for JO but Bird insisted on including the monstrous contract of Troy Murphy that's where the stalemate existed. Later on, Cupcake insisted to just go with one player instead of two for one.
With regards to Fish, why not reward the player that beat San Antonio with that 0.4 of a second shot? If Lakers can re-sign a scrub for $ 6M for five years, ship Butler for Kwame why not Da' Fish?...one of the contributors of Laker dynasty in 2000. If Warriors and Jazz could reward him, why not the Lakers? Nothing is ridiculous with that contract and G. Payton a future hall of famer is not stupid, he is one of the players responsible for giving the Heat the Championship the following year. Maybe that is just a coincidence huh? He is a better player that Atkins, Jermaine Jones, and this PG Terrel. Nope, I will never agree that G. Payton is a stupid player, I'll go with that statement to my grave. lol!
To add some more, mentioning Lochness does not refer to this thread or to Cupcake. Those are two distinct urban legends. I'm just trying to tease you on that water horse on the succeeding thread. It resembles to lochness isn't it or to the Chinese dragon this coming Chinese New Year. Beware of the year of the rats.
If you're gonna hold Kupchak in contempt for "rushing" the Shaq trade, that's fine, but then you need to hold the other players involved with the circumstances leading up to the trade equally accountable. Shaq made the deal next to impossible because he made it perfectly clear that he was willing to sign an extension with about three teams (Miami being one of them). No team is gonna gut their roster to rent Shaq for a season. That Shaq and Buss were feuding also didn't help matters, since it provided a notoriously thin-skinned Shaq less incentive to cooperate.
Kobe didn't do the team any favors, either. You think it was coincidence that he signed his new deal the DAY AFTER Shaq was traded? The team felt an extreme pressure to move Shaq ASAP so they could lock up Kobe (who was definitely flirting with the Clips) ASAP, and one wasn't gonna happen without the other. I'm willing to bet the proverbial farm on that one. Thus, the need to move things along in quick fashion. Obviously, Kupchak could have gambled by waiting for the best possible deal. But that's also gambling on Kobe ending up somewhere else. I'm not sure I'd want to risk that.
Again, I'm not trying to make Kupchak into a better GM than he is, because there have been mistakes. Avoidable ones. But at the same time, his hands were pretty much tied during the Shaq deal, so there's only so much venom that can come his way, in my opinion. Besides, when you look at what the Lakers originally got in that deal, it actually wasn't all that bad. Where they came out looking boned was in trading Caron Butler (see earlier referenced mistakes).
As for Fish, getting 6 mil in '04 isn't the same as getting 6 mil now (since I assume you're referencing Walton's deal). Everybody and their mother thought the Warriors were paying out the nose for Fish (including the Warriors, who looked to trade him reasonably quick in large part because of salary). I totally understand why the Lakers didn't resign him, especially considering they weren't gonna be in title contention anyway that season.
And yeah, I do think it's more or less coincidence that the Heat won it all when GP was there. He helped, for sure, and hit a couple big shots. But I absolutely think Miami would have won it all with or without him. And to some degree, that doesn't even matter, because he played like ass with the Lakers.
And by the way, I knew the lochness reference was in jest, so no worries. I didn't take offense.
"however he pleaded with Rod Thorn and even got insulted by Thorn & reprimanded "not to call him again if he cannot give his request", Cupcake pleaded. Again with Larry Bird, he was about to ship Socks & LO for JO but Bird insisted on including the monstrous contract of Troy Murphy that's where the stalemate existed"
there is no concrete evidence as to what EXACTLY the deals for either J-Kidd or JO were, so it's wrong to assume why each deal wasn't done.
In my opinion the only deal that Mitch Kupchak has made that I wasn't enamored with was the Kwame for Butler trade. I can even justify the Shaq trade because a trio of Kobe-LO-Butler would be pretty damn good right now.
Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky are contributing writers to ESPN The
Magazine and ESPN.com, and co-authored Fishing on the Edge, the autobiography of 2003 Bassmaster Classic champion Mike Iaconelli, bass fishing's bad boy. While both grew up in St. Louis without NBA
basketball, Andrew became a die hard Lakers fanatic after moving to L.A. to attend USC. That he managed to find a job requiring him to obsess over his favorite team, the same activity that prompted him to waste time while working other jobs, is pretty incredible. As for Brian, his baptism into pro hoops fandom has been provided by the "All Lakers, All The Time" citizens of Los Angeles. Beats the hell out of covering the Bucks.
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Hello all, wow, it's been almost two years since I've posted, but I have been reading!! Great job AK/BK. This is for those that want to watch the game online just click on this url or copy and paste it and there ya go! Unforunately, it's the Grizzlies announcers but hey, atleast we get to watch.
LET'S GO LAKERS!!
Posted by: Tushar 24/7 | January 08, 2008 at 05:06 PM
"Los lakers deben batir el crap fuera de este equipo."
Posted by: bj | January 08, 2008 at 05:07 PM
GO Lakes!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:13 PM
Opps, I forgot to paste the url!! My bad.
http://s226606444.onlinehome.us/jko/nba.php?x=http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=lp&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia-live/nba/9920/500_nba-league_pass_memphis_051201.asx&gid=504
Posted by: Tushar 24/7 | January 08, 2008 at 05:14 PM
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:16 PM
Andrew Bynum is not playing well defensively.
Milicic is not this good. Come on Drew!
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:17 PM
Tushar 24/7!
Thanks maaaannn!!!!
Posted by: laker from the south | January 08, 2008 at 05:18 PM
Mike Miller is always game when Kobe guards him.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:20 PM
Come on Kobe...play smart.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:21 PM
Where's the defense?
The offense is going...where's the freakin defense?
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:21 PM
We look ok , need a few stops , should be up by 10 by now
Go Lakers !!!
Posted by: albert | January 08, 2008 at 05:24 PM
i like this new full court press the lakers have employed.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:27 PM
LO game today baby!
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:28 PM
Gay got 0 points and 2 TOs. good job, Luke!
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:30 PM
Andrew Bynum is not playing well defensively.
Milicic is not this good. Come on Drew!
Posted by: Faith | January 08
Relax, Milicic scored two of his baskets when Andrew went to help on someone else.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 05:33 PM
There's no way Grizz gonna stop Bryant FIsh & Co ...
Posted by: Nelson | January 08, 2008 at 05:33 PM
Offense scored 30+.
Defense held them to 20+ but it still isn't the D I want us playing.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:36 PM
not a bad start to the first qtr. hopefully the bench can do a better job tonight. fisher's needs his legs for manana.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:36 PM
Great start Lakers! Here's hoping we're up by 40 at halftime and can rest all our starters the whole second half.
Posted by: Laker Kev | January 08, 2008 at 05:37 PM
Gotta give Luke some credit against Gay...
On track for another 160 point game... ok, I'd settle for another 120 pointer
and the bench playing the entire 4th.
C'mon Lakers! Beat them down!
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 05:38 PM
Lakers closed the quarter with some nice defense and some nice shooting by Fish, Kobe and LO. Lakers are really tough to defend when their sharing the ball. Twice the Griz try to lob it to Gasol only to have Andrew step in and cause two turnovers.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 05:38 PM
Tushar 24/7, you are the man! D-Fish is showing some form!
Posted by: original dragon | January 08, 2008 at 05:39 PM
Farmar showing the UPSS!!
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 05:40 PM
I guess Sasha's still not 100%... J-Crit gets another early entry.
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 05:41 PM
Ariza. gotta love those instincts.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 05:42 PM
Nemaia,
it's not so much the makes...though that's nice thanks, but how easy it is. He's a step slow in everything from rotations to guarding his own man making it easy for them. The only reason we have the lead (though we started to pick it up with TA on the floor) is coz they're worst than us in defense.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:46 PM
Trevor Ariza is playing like a Stud. Again I repeat...well I won't.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:47 PM
Kobe! Kobe! Kobe!
Kobe's the BEST!
Posted by: Average Joe | January 08, 2008 at 05:49 PM
Take it easy Critter. run the offense unless it's a clear lay up.
Posted by: Laker Kev | January 08, 2008 at 05:50 PM
Lakers are playing some tough defense tonight.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 05:52 PM
We're playing great D and rebounding great. That last call on LO was bogus...foul on Gay!
Posted by: Laker Kev | January 08, 2008 at 05:52 PM
The Grizzlies are discombobulated offensively. This is what I'd like to see from the Lakers D on a night to night basis.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 05:52 PM
Nemaia,
it's not so much the makes...though that's nice thanks, but how easy it is. He's a step slow in everything from rotations to guarding his own man making it easy for them. The only reason we have the lead (though we started to pick it up with TA on the floor) is coz they're worst than us in defense.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:46 PM
Thanks Faith. I'll keep watching. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 05:53 PM
Faith 23 points in a quarter is a good defensive quarter for the Lakers. Over a whole game that's just 92 points.
You're tough woman to please! lol
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 05:54 PM
YOU GOT TO LOVE FISH'S SHOOTING ----- 5 ON 5...
Posted by: dice8up | January 08, 2008 at 05:56 PM
Want to know how bad they are on D?
They left Fish wide open...he hasn't missed like ever!
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:56 PM
Los Lakers le están dando una paliza a este equipo!
"The Lakers are beating the crap out of this team!"
Vamos Lakers!
Go Lakers!
Posted by: CLeon | January 08, 2008 at 05:57 PM
Great team defense... I love it
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 05:57 PM
lol Xodus. It's not my fault they suck offensively. I'm picking on tendencies lol.
I don't want us to get behind dribble penetration, because tomorrow it's going to be a different story.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:57 PM
Question for y'all, since there are a lot of Laker fans in the building.
When Kobe got that steal off Miller and passed off to Walton, were people chanting "Loooooke?" Or was that actually "boo?" I honestly couldn't tell.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 08, 2008 at 05:58 PM
What's up with Kobe's free throws tonight?
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 05:58 PM
Bynum late on that rotation. Too far away from a jumpshooter. You know he's going to shoot it.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 05:58 PM
Faith,
We're not that bad on D, part of the reason why we give up so many points is because we play at such a fast pace. Of course we're not as good as Boston, SA or Detroit on the defensive side of the ball but we're pretty good.
I do agree that we're better defensively with Ariza and a little better overall with him, though. I just don't want you to be so upset. :) lol
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 05:59 PM
Since Fish's mom is so cute, and she's a Laker fan. I believe she got them to chant "Lukeeeee" lol.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:00 PM
They need to go a little more inside to the post. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 06:01 PM
Faith,
I agree. I'm still having nightmares about Chris Paul's Brokeback offense lol. The Grizz aren't bad offensively though, they're averaging 100 points a night.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 06:01 PM
See that? All the way to the hole. Damnit.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:04 PM
Dribble penetration by Paul plus Peja equals brokeback lol.
Something none of us want to see or hear lol.
We're not doing a good job on dribble penetration tonight either, not at all.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:06 PM
Faith/Xodus,
Aside from the reason you (X) just cited (upped pace), the other reason the Lakers give up more points is the turnovers. I haven't been able to track down the exact stat (if it's even kept), but I'm willing to bet the Lakers are in the top-10 for points allowed in transition. If they cut that habit down, the numbers would be more indicative of the D otherwise being played, which has improved quite a bit.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 08, 2008 at 06:06 PM
Nice finish to the half, fellas.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 06:07 PM
Bad finish to the 2nd quarter there... Offense got stagnant. Kobe tried to
do too much instead of moving the ball. Lakers need to come out in the third and step on their throats.
I'd like to see a big 3rd out of LO.
C'mon Lakers! Beat them down!
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 06:11 PM
second quarter i thought was horrible. we didn't run the offense. we tried to run too much with the second unit on the floor,
then wehn the starters came back in they started to extend the lead, but they got away from what got them the lead inthe first
place.they need to go inside out more. bynum hasnt been looked for at all this game. kobe isnt letting the game come to him. he
is foring the issue and its not boding well for the team. it wasnt very fun basketball towatch for the most part. not enough
passing and not enough assists.too much one on one.
in the second quarer for a couple of mins we looked really good with lamar and kobe farmar trevor and i think kwame or bynum,
after starters all came in,we didnt look so fluid in our offense.
just some thoughts
andand
Posted by: andand | January 08, 2008 at 06:15 PM
Our turnovers led to fast break points you're right AK.
But check out our fast break D...there's often only one back...sometimes 2. You expect to be undermanned in fast breaks...but you're supposed to run as fast as you can to get back...I don't see us doing that much.
Outside of Braveheart that is.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:19 PM
Da Fish!
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:26 PM
Other than Lamar's travel, this is a good start to the half so far...
Luuuuuuke!!
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 06:27 PM
Luke doesn't play the passing lanes D bad. Good job on that one Luke.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:28 PM
that last play by luke looked like it was running on the X-Mo replay. hahahahaha
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 06:28 PM
Faith,
Oh, don't get me wrong. The transition D is still a weak area. Which is why they need to cut down the turnovers. Granted, as you point out, some of it can be effort. But at the same time, this team doesn't really have the athleticism or enough good individual defenders to whip back and cover with continual success. Obviously, they should never stop trying to improve, but the more sensible and realistic method to help would be nixing the TO's. Do that and they'll find themselves defending more while set, where they actually have improved.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 08, 2008 at 06:29 PM
Bad play on a good pass by Kobe. Bynum's got to recognize and react.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:32 PM
Good challenge on that one by Drew.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:32 PM
Darko just pushing Bynum around the box.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 06:36 PM
Good job Lake Show.
Blow these dudes out by 30 by the end of the 3rd and then rest the starters for tomorrow.
That's what HUNGRY teams do!
Posted by: Korey | January 08, 2008 at 06:38 PM
Not having the athleticism and the individual defenders (though outside of a choice few, I think we got ourselves good possibilities on individual defenders if they just work on it)...makes it more imperative we challenge shots.
Challenging shots is sometimes just as simple as putting your hand up there lol.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:38 PM
Great shooting night for Fish... he needs to bring his Mama to all the games!
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 06:39 PM
You CAN'T leave Miller alone at the 3-point line...
Kobe just picked up his 4th foul
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 06:42 PM
Man, Mike Miller is on fire. I like to see fellow Gators do well, but he needs to be cooled off lol.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 06:44 PM
Gotta love the Fish.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:44 PM
AN OPEN LETTER TO MITCH KUPCHAK
Mr. Kupchak,
I'd like to take a moment and apologize to you personally, not only for the numerous ways, I attacked your competency, intellect, heart and desire to keep the Laker Organization, synonymous with greatness, but for second guessing what the "Logo" himself, instilled in you as his personal protégé'.
Watching the 07-08 Lakers, its become apparent to me, my armchair GM'ing would've set the franchise back years now in hindsight. The core nucleus of the team is young, quick, athletic and appears to have a tremendous upside with unlimited potential. The acquisition of Ariza was brilliant in terms of the "fit" for the team and by now, its no secret Bynum has progressed into something a lot of us scoffed at as little as 9 months ago, and now, outside of KG, D.Howard and "maybe" 1 or 2 others, there isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal for the Kareem protégé' now.
You stuck to your guns Mitch, you took one for the Buss family. You did the unthinkable. You told the best individual nba player since Jordon,to shut up, do YOUR job and allow me to do MINE. You put your nads on the chopping block when most of us Laker fans wanted to chop them. I see flashes of brilliance with this young team, I see flashes of a Jerry West, shrewdly and quietly constructed, mini dynasty in the making. Although I believe we're still one, maybe two more pieces away from Championship status, I have a restored sense of faith that you, not only learned a thing or two from the Logo, but you're blazing your own trail now and leaving YOUR fingerprints on the organization and in my own humble opinion, doesnt look bad at all. Not at all.
Good Luck and Thank You for being Hard Headed.!
Posted by: complex brotha | January 08, 2008 at 06:44 PM
Bad call on that charge on Ariza... Miller got there late
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 06:46 PM
Xodus,
Miller's willingness to play off the bench in the past, along with having spent a lot of time with mediocre teams, has led a LOT of people to underate him, I think. Your fellow alum can play. Not a sick athlete, but his all around game is pretty solid. I'd love to have that guy on the Lakers. Seems like a great triangle fit to boot.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 08, 2008 at 06:46 PM
How old is our team...we got ourselves some pimply folk. Kobe with one on his cheek, Lamar on his forehead lol.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 06:53 PM
Gasol's turkey neck is starting to bother me a little bit.....
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 06:54 PM
garbage time... you gotta love it. im talkin about gasol's turkey neck and faith is talking about kobe and LO's zits.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 06:59 PM
This game would have been over already had we not traded baskets and gave them the Mo.
Come on Lakes!
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 07:02 PM
Kwame actually caught a pass and finished... again, I'm impressed...
until his next turnover, that is.
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 07:02 PM
AK,
Miller is definitely underrated, he can shoot with the best of them. And how many guys can say they've led their alma mater's to the NCAA title game, won rookie of the year, 6th man of the year and play for the US National team.
He's not a superstar by any means, but he'd be a valuable cog on a championship contending team.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:03 PM
And like you said he seems like the type of guy that'd fit well into the triangle. I'd love to see him in purple and gold.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:05 PM
John Ireland talking about this stupid Elvis day every time his segment comes up is just lame.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 07:06 PM
no challenge on Gay. Come on Trevor!
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 07:06 PM
I wonder why Phil hasn't played Bynum and Fish in the fourth.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:07 PM
Oh Jackie Johnson! I love it when you wear the black outfits. I'm watching the news tonight for sure!
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | January 08, 2008 at 07:09 PM
sixonezero,
boo Joel lol.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 07:13 PM
Gave up 100+, yup I'd say our defense failed us lol.
Not the preceptor I'd like to see before a big NO game. But I hope we fix our holes for that game.
Posted by: Faith | January 08, 2008 at 07:15 PM
This game was never in doubt... I don't mind the lapses... I think sometimes
the starters lose their rhythm in the 2nd game of the back-to-back when
none of them play at all in the 4th.
Posted by: Bzar | January 08, 2008 at 07:17 PM
Now that was a good game!
Let me tell you why! Did you see the Grizzles defense? It was actually pretty good. They played Bynum very well! They were waiting for everything Bynum had been doing. Milicic, Gasol, and Swift were sticking to him pretty good. Bynum hit 5 out of 11 shots, which was pretty good because there was defensive resistance!
The eight first half points were pretty good. 2 off of a inside position. 2 points off a lay-up. 2 points on a pic' 'n roll. And 2 points off of a couple of free throws.
Now the first 2 points Andrew had to fight for position and got his bucket.
The points off of the lay-up were good because they came off of our defense and led to the transition basket. And the two free throws. Those are good points to me because they came off fighting against a defense that was actually paying attention to him.
The points that I consider to be "garbage" are when teams are playing lousy defense. That stuff is just garbage to me.
But the Lakers, tonight, were scoring off of their defense. The other thing that caught my eye was when the 2nd unit came in there was no change in philosophy. The spacing and the set up of the offense looked like the 1st units. That was cool!
That was a well played game!
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | January 08, 2008 at 07:20 PM
Xodus,
"I wonder why Phil hasn't played Bynum and Fish in the fourth."
I just followed on Gamecast but I have to believe tonight was a good time to get D-Fish some rest and also give Kwame some minutes to get back in game shape. This thing never seemed close from my vantage point, so it's a good time to get some guys some rest, others some run.
Tomorrow night is a pretty big game, my guess is PJ feels the same.
Another double digit, in control the entire game, win for the Lakers.
I can get used to this.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 08, 2008 at 07:20 PM
AK,
I wonder why PJ rested Fisher and Bynum (and Odom most of the time) in the 4th, but kept Bryant on the floor for 40 minutes, considering that we a have a huge back-to-back game tomorrow.
Is he that serious about being 100% sure that we close the deal on the Grizzlies and get the win or is it related to not having a reliable SG backup because Vujacic is injured and Crittenton did not play well in the last couple games?
Posted by: Allan | January 08, 2008 at 07:21 PM
I don't think Luke or LO played the 4th either. I guess Phil wanted to rest them.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:29 PM
WAY TO PLAY FISH!!!
NOW LET'S BEAT THOSE HORNETS!!!!!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 08, 2008 at 07:30 PM
The one pic' 'n roll play with Bynum and Kobe was good to me because it came only once in the game. It only came once because the Grizzles defense was on guard. When a team plays proper defense the most you're going to get off a pic' 'n roll 2 maybe 4 points. If the teams gets 6 points off of the pic' 'n roll...well, that's just bad defense by the opponent.
So that one pic' 'n roll play by Kobe and Bynum in the first half was good as gold to me because it involved a little slip created by Kobe and Bynum. The defender was actuall there. But that little space was just enough to get Andrew to the basket. That beautiful because the defense resistance was there. They took that pic' 'n roll despite the defense.
When the defense is good that's all the pic' 'n roll you're supposed to get.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | January 08, 2008 at 07:31 PM
Andrew Z,
The weird thing about is that Kobe played virtually the whole fourth. I think he was trying to buy those guys some rest too, but it seems strange that he'd rest the other guys but play Kobe 40 minutes.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:36 PM
Mike T.,
I, too, cannot fricken believe how incredible Jackie Johnson's body is. My God!
She also seems nice!
Enough of this talk, back to the Lakers.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 08, 2008 at 07:45 PM
22 and 11 = 66.7% 82 x 66.7% = 54.7 wins, 55 win bandwagon anyone?
Posted by: PSLakerFan | January 08, 2008 at 07:45 PM
Andrew Z,
Good analysis.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 08, 2008 at 07:46 PM
Here is the trade the lakers need to do. Someone get this to Mr. Mitch.
Los Angeles Lakers
Incoming Players
Jerome James
Salary: $5,800,000 Years Remaining: 2
Eddy Curry
Salary: $8,947,543 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 14.5 REB: 5.3 AST: 0.6 PER: 16.01
Outgoing Players: Vladimir Radmanovic, Kwame BrownNew York Knicks
Incoming Players
Vladimir Radmanovic
Salary: $5,632,200 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 7.4 REB: 2.7 AST: 1.6 PER: 11.35
Kwame Brown
Salary: $9,075,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.7 REB: 5.0 AST: 1.4 PER: 10.76
Outgoing Players: Jerome James, Eddy Curry
This trade would help both teams. It would put Curry with odom,kobe,fish, & bynum. Now thats a nice starting five. It would give the knicks some space for the off season because the season is over for them. Tell me what you think.
Posted by: DAT | January 08, 2008 at 07:46 PM
Hey K Brothers,
Human deficits aside... you two do a good job with this blog.
You honestly should do a poll to see how many sports writers at the L.A. Times deserve a raise.
I think you two would be among the very few that would be overwhelmingly voted "RAISE!"
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 08, 2008 at 07:49 PM
@ complex brotha - Real nice honest letter.
@Mike T - garbage points? WTF?? When they start counting for a half point I'll agree with you. Till then...
BTW does your ever so inventive basketball lexicon include "garbage games" too? A win is a win is a win. The scoreboard don't discriminate.
Garbage time I understand. This ... stuff you talking... not so much.
Posted by: wardmin | January 08, 2008 at 07:51 PM
LO came in for the last like minute and a half when memphis had cut the lead to twelve. I think Kobe played because Phil wanted him to get out of his funk. That didn't really happen but Kobe didn't exert a whole bunch of energy when he was out there anyways because the game was pretty well in hand. Basically all the starters except Kobe rested the whole fourth quarter and Kobe's will be just fine, wind wise, for tomorrow. We should be able to come out strong tomorrow against the Hornets. With their four days of rest, their might, just might, be some rust and an oppurtunity at the very beginning of the game (first couple minutes, at most) to start strong and lock in on defense. Pleased with the win tonight, and expecting a good game tomorrow. There is absolutely no excuse to be blown out tomorrow. We shall see. My gut feeling? I think we find a way, as we have all season. C'mon Lakeshow!
Posted by: Tushar 24/7 | January 08, 2008 at 07:52 PM
Mike T,
Great observations and posts tonight regarding the game. I agree that this was a good game and the post defense by two 7 footers in Milicic and Gasol would be tough on Andrew. It was good to see him try a couple of different things against them tonight because they were determined to make things tough for him in the paint. One thing I think Andrew can do better is when he catches the ball under the rim or backboard he needs to back into the defender and go up strong so that he'll either power it in or get a call. Twice he caught the ball underneath the basket and had it blocked by because he tried to finesse it in. This was a good game in the trenches tonight.
Also, one thing that I like that Kwame does really well is get out on the break. He gets out quick for easy dunks which is great. Andrew sometimes lags behind, but he's doing much better this year at getting back. Also good to see our team doing a better job of holding the lead. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 07:55 PM
Andrew Z,
The weird thing about is that Kobe played virtually the whole fourth. I think he was trying to buy those guys some rest too, but it seems strange that he'd rest the other guys but play Kobe 40 minutes.
Posted by: Xodus | January 08, 2008 at 07:36 PM
I think PJ just wanted to keep a scorer and someone who can create his own shot and get to the free throw line in there because the second unit still was a little shaky in the second quarter. I don't think he wanted to take the chance of sitting all the starters and then have to bring them back if the second unit can't maintain the lead. Notice how even in the second quarter PJ had LO out there with the second unit. PJ's just trying to keep things under control. Besides, Jordan and Kwame were doing pretty good in the fourth so there was no need to bring Fish and Andrew back in. Great coaching tonight.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 08:02 PM
Aloha
Any win in the NBA is a great win. and we did it while resting a lot of guys for tomarrow, very important.
One thing though that we need to work on. When Andrew is sandwitched by 2 seven footers Lamar really needs to become more agressive offensively then he was tonight. Not too many teams have a big front line but the ones that do are going to cheat on Andrew. Its up to Lamar or whoever else is playing the 4 to make them pay.
Mh
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 08:09 PM
AK/BK,
Will David West be in the lineup tomorrow night for the Hornets?
We need to come out very aggressive tomorrow night because Byron Scott has mainly stuck with his starters lately because his bench has been ineffective. I think we should stay home on the shooters and take them away and let Paul try to beat us with his scoring. Peja and West always seem to have really good games against us. This time we have LO in the lineup as well. We'll see, go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 08:13 PM
DAT,
Your trade is too stupid...No way we are trading for curry who is worst defender ...
Are you a Knicks fan...next thing we know you suggest we get their coach and GM too...
Posted by: Ajay | January 08, 2008 at 08:13 PM
Wow just checked out the standings. The Lakers are still in the 6th spot but are only a game and a half out of the top seed. I cant remember it ever being this close this late. Its really going to be a wild season. This make tomarrows game even more important. Luke was o.k on Gay tonight but I think we should start Trevor tomarrow. With Paul on the floor we will need someone quick enough to both help and recover on Peja so he doesnt burn us like the last time.
MH
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 08:17 PM
LETS START A CAMPAIGN TO WRITE-IN ANDREW BYNUM FOR THE ALL-STAR TEAM!!!
hubbit
Posted by: hubbit | January 08, 2008 at 08:25 PM
DAT
Curry? Curry? and Jerome James? You must be a Knick fan. Talk about two players in this league that have less heart and passion for the game than Kwame. If you think
Kwame's rebounding is anemic...maybe you should look at Curry's. He doesn't even play defense.
Oh and the cherry on top: The Eddy Curry Line
The Eddy Curry Line was originally established to put a spotlight on how truly anemic Curry's overall fantasy line is. The standard: a player must average more turnovers than assists, steals, and blocks combined – in order to qualify, a player must have appeared in at least half of his team's games and averaged at least 25 minutes of playing time.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 08, 2008 at 08:25 PM
OMG....I can't believe Mike T was complimentary. I'm in total shock, flabbergasted, stumped. If Mike T continues like this you can take me off the Bandwagon ;o)
Posted by: mikekaz | January 08, 2008 at 08:25 PM
Great win tonight. Here are some of my observations:
--I'd like to see more defensive rebounds from the Lakers
--The Crit has the same mustache Darryl Strawberry used to have
(Both may be related to Dino from The Flintstones)
--Gasol is better than I thought
We need to mentally prepare to stop Chris Paul CP3 and win against NOH.
Colorado amo a los Lakers!
Posted by: Hugo Boss | January 08, 2008 at 08:51 PM
Great win tonight. Here are some of my observations:
--I'd like to see more defensive rebounds from the Lakers
--The Crit has the same mustache Darryl Strawberry used to have
(Both may be related to Dino from The Flintstones)
--Gasol is better than I thought
We need to mentally prepare to stop Chris Paul CP3 and win against NOH.
Colorado amo a los Lakers!
Posted by: Hugo Boss | January 08, 2008 at 08:51 PM
Again the West is stacked - so any win is crucial when seating in the playoffs could be determined by a few games difference or even season series match up. So the Lakers need to beat up people now, and during the super long road trip at the beginning of February. Thrashings like tonight against inferior competition is helpful. It appears that the Lakers picked the Grizzlies apart tonight. They wanted to stop the inside game, so Fisher and Kobe killed them. Points wise, they were the difference in the game. The rest of the team in terms of production wash pretty much a wash.
Yes that jackie johnson is physically fit to say the least!
Posted by: richard | January 08, 2008 at 09:16 PM
Wow Darko was picked 2nd overall in 2003. Seems like people have been talking about that guy forever. Andrew obviously was picked for many of the same reasons (raw young project) in 2005. I know that he languished on the bench in Detroit, but man, Bynum is easily a better player than Darko. Got to give FO props for that. Aside from this game, Bynum is lights years ahead of Darko in development. They are playing about the same number of minutes (28 for Andrew and 25 Darko), but Bynums numbers are about double of Darko's (except blocks) and shooting a much higher percentage.
Posted by: richard | January 08, 2008 at 09:28 PM
Aloha
Any win in the NBA is a great win. and we did it while resting a lot of guys for tomarrow, very important.
One thing though that we need to work on. When Andrew is sandwitched by 2 seven footers Lamar really needs to become more agressive offensively then he was tonight. Not too many teams have a big front line but the ones that do are going to cheat on Andrew. Its up to Lamar or whoever else is playing the 4 to make them pay.
Mh
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 08:09 PM
Mike H,
Really good post and observation. LO definitely could've been more aggressive tonight because Gasol was sagging to help Milicic with Andrew. Memphis does have a big frontline and I imagine that's how it would be for us if we ever play Kwame at the 4 alongside Andrew and LO, now that would be a big lineup. Fortunately our shooters hit outside shots, because they were trying to crowd and clog the lane. Hopefully we'll be ready tomorrow against the Hornets. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 09:36 PM
Nice to see us get these wins against the weaker teams that we struggled with last year. Shows improvement, growth and maturation especially from the young guys. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 09:40 PM
Someone posted this at a miami blog.
http://tinyurl.com/2pkusq
Great win Lakers!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Charles | January 08, 2008 at 09:43 PM
Los Laguneros deben de partir a la madre hestos cabrones
Posted by: RICH | January 08, 2008 at 09:44 PM
Mike T
Maybe I am misunerstanding you but there is no such thing as garbage points. The pick and roll is the most basic of basketball plays. Parker and Duncan are great at it. Stockton and Malone made a living with it. Any offense should work to get as close to the basket for the easiest shot possible. Fact is we dont run the pick and roll enough. Lamar with his length should have more run for him. trevor with his leaping ability should have more run for him. I would love for Andrew to get ten dunks a night, it opens up the rest of the offense. Why do you think Fish at 33 is having a carreer year? Much more space because of those garbage dunks!!
Mh
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 10:02 PM
First off - I can't believe that Burger King discontinued the Whopper!
Sweet blowout by the Lakers, I was worried this would be a close game, but I think Derek Fisher took care of that.
I never imagined Fisher would have this much of an influence on the team, but man, he does make a difference!
I think that Kobe inadvertently saved Bynum's career with the "ship his a--" comments.
I doubt that Bynum's work ethic would have been such as it is without that impetus, because I don't think it was that great before then.
New Orleans is going to be a great test. Let's hope Bynum can show some strength against the shot blocking skills of Tyson Chandler.
60 WIN BANDWAGON ROLLING ON!!!!
Posted by: Amazing_Happens | January 08, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Aloha from the big island Nemaia
Thanks for the props. Ya Andrew, Kwame, and Lamar would truely be a jumbo line up. But unless Kwame can develope a mid range jumper, it probably wouldnt work on offense. Kwames man would just sag to the middle. This would also take away Andrew and some of Kobe and Lamars penetration as well. But if Kwame could make that jumper to keep defenses honest, my goodness, it would mean a ring for sure. Hey Mike T, get your boy out on the court, for at least 500 mid range jumpers a day. If he can learn to hit that shot we would really be hard to beat.
MH
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Good one Charles!!
Riley ripped us off by not giving up Wade now hes paying the price. Karma!!
MH
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Aloha from the big island Nemaia
Thanks for the props. Ya Andrew, Kwame, and Lamar would truely be a jumbo line up. But unless Kwame can develope a mid range jumper, it probably wouldnt work on offense. Kwames man would just sag to the middle. This would also take away Andrew and some of Kobe and Lamars penetration as well. But if Kwame could make that jumper to keep defenses honest, my goodness, it would mean a ring for sure. Hey Mike T, get your boy out on the court, for at least 500 mid range jumpers a day. If he can learn to hit that shot we would really be hard to beat.
MH
Posted by: michael h | January 08, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Aloha MH,
Man, I miss living in Oahu. I love the islands and I hope someday to make it back there.
I think tomorrow night's game is a test for both the Hornets and the Lakers. Both the Hornets and Lakers have beaten the other western powers and the Hornets beat us early in the year with LO and Kwame out with injuries. We match well with them and hopefully our bench gives us better production. I'd rather make Paul beat us with his scoring and keep his mates in check because his mates, Peja in particular killed us in our first matchup. We also didn't have Ariza back then and he can guard Peja at times. Should be interesting and fun. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Lakers live there alive there alive; is that weird science or is it the fact that will take over the NBA.
My Roll Call
KB
FISH
LAMAR
TA
DREW
RONNY
LUKE
JORDAN
CRIT
CAKEMAN
GHOSTS OF LAKERS PAST
HUNDLEY
SHARMAN
BAYLOR
WEST
GAIL
WILT
KERMIT
HAPPY
MEL
RILES
NIXON
MAJIC
COOP
BY
JAMES
MAC
CHONES
RAMBO
GREEN
MT
AND ALL EXCEPT
THE GLOVE
MALONE
SHAQ
AND ALL CELTIC BEINGS MAY THEY DROWNED IN THEIR OWN VOICES
Posted by: pk-in-the-mesa | January 08, 2008 at 11:08 PM
Part of an article in the Miami Herald after the Heat lost to the TWolves tonight and fell to 8-27 on the season.
Despite the struggles, the Heat has not conceded anything yet.
''It's still a lot of basketball left,'' Haslem said. ``I know we keep saying it, but it is. We still have an opportunity if we make the right moves to get to the playoffs."
Is the East that weak or is Haslem smoking something? Probably both.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 08, 2008 at 11:16 PM
i agree...totally agree that kobe saved bynum's...i dont think it ever resulted toa good decision on the part of kupcake but i would say it was an impact, a real good impact of what
kobe had done in that parking lot...that video made bynum to strive more, to work real hard and to value discipline...had that video did not came out, bynum would be still
that flat, slow foot big guy....i mean, its a blessing in disguise...now i reached the wisdom of KB24....
Posted by: jonjay | January 09, 2008 at 01:41 AM
is Mike T kidding? Memphis is one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA by every statistic and the lakers got any shot they wanted, Fisher doesnt make 10-11 FGs every night.
Posted by: Laker Lover | January 09, 2008 at 07:02 AM
Bynum ball for sale on eBay. Very unique. Type "bynum" into the eBay search.
Posted by: | January 09, 2008 at 07:36 AM
Xodus,
If Kobe played the whole/most of the 4th I would say that's because with Sasha out there really isn't healthy and Crittenton has been shaky of late. If the lead was in the 14-17 range, a quick 7/9-0 run could make it a game again and with Kobe and Four Guys out there you know that is was never going to dip below 12.
Plus, with all the blowouts lately, maybe Kobe asked for more minutes :)
He's sat out a couple 4th quarters this year...for good reasons.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 09, 2008 at 08:04 AM
Though some utah fans are asking for a Brown for Okur trade, I don't think that makes the team better defensively. Any thoughts on this guys?
Michael H, Thanks for the reply!
Posted by: Charles | January 09, 2008 at 08:26 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Kobe-staying-put-but-Lakers-shopping-Brown;_ylt=Aq70EuJPcyDP6s3ixQjoZdikvLYF?urn=nba,60552
Interesting. I wonder what we can get for Kwam.
Posted by: Rocky | January 09, 2008 at 08:59 AM
Somebody made a post about trading for Ed Curry, i actually think the Lakers should trade for Curry but insist that David Lee be included for any combination of Lamar, Brown, Vlad, Mihm and Crit.
Posted by: max | January 09, 2008 at 09:03 AM
Brown for Okur? Are you kidding? Okur is going to come in for Bynum and do what? Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Kwame is starting to hustle. A lot. He's still clumsy, but the hustle is a big change. He's looking to score like I've never seen him do, and he's really running the floor (great dunk on a breakaway yesterday).
Deal or No Deal? NO DEAL! Kwame stays. We're going to need him in the playoffs when Andrew gets in foul trouble. And he's definitely showing signs of coming to life.
Posted by: CornerJ | January 09, 2008 at 09:04 AM
"Though some utah fans are asking for a Brown for Okur trade, I don't think that makes the team better defensively. Any thoughts on this guys?"
Michael H, Thanks for the reply!
Posted by: Charles | January 09, 2008 at 08:26 AM
Charles,
Great post and information. If we're trying to maintain a defensive edge we shouldn't make this trade because Kwame gives us more defensively. However Okur is a pretty good outside shooter for a big man and grabs boards pretty consistently. Okur could also play 5 and the 4 spot and he has a good offensive post/face up game which could open things more for Andrew down low. Okur is also a good passing big man playing in Sloan's system. Kwame would make Utah's frontline better defensively. It mostly trading off defense for offense which I don't think we're going to do. Thanks. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | January 09, 2008 at 09:16 AM
If I was Phil Jackson.....(obviously I'm not) I would start Kwame over Bynum against the Hornets. Obviously Bynum is a starter but the bench mob needs Andrew as an anchor.
I think our bench is WAY more productive with Bynum while our starters still have Kobe.
Posted by: mikekaz | January 09, 2008 at 09:27 AM
Yo, Mr. Long tIme Laker Fan
Just read 2 responses to me a couple of threads ago. There are many decaffeinated brands that taste just as good as regular grind.
I either need to make my sarcasm plainer or you need to read all the words and punctuation. Either way, unless your agenda is to instruct and rule the blog mind set, let me think what the rest of the NBA thinks, Luke is a bit athletically challenged at this level and he's not all we have at the position now.
You're one of the best informed and sensible word smiths 'round here, and I was just havin' fun, which is what this is supposed to be. They call it "playing" basketball.
Posted by: Vman | January 09, 2008 at 09:29 AM
Jonjay,
Kobe inspired Bynum and Bynum saved Kobe from deciding hastily of leaving the 2nd biggest market for bad teams and both of them saving the job of Cupcake and the image of the dysfunctional family.
Now the FO cheerleaders on this blog are saying Cupcake should be Executive of the Year!!! what for doing nothing! Since when, did someone got a promotion for doing nothing?
I saw Vlade Divac in the Sixers game, may I know what has he accomplished so far with the foreign recruits? aside from contacting Vladrad before he was recruited in Serbia.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 09, 2008 at 09:46 AM
Edwin,
"Now the FO cheerleaders on this blog are saying Cupcake should be Executive of the Year!!! what for doing nothing! Since when, did someone got a promotion for doing nothing?"
When the right move may very well have been not making a move at all.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 09, 2008 at 09:50 AM
Agree AK, he made the right move for doing nothing because he is one of the insiders who know what's going on with Bynum. He has the inputs while we just have the outburst based on their historical performance. The point of Jonjay, if not with Kobe's rants, Bynum will not be motivated. Everyone in the roster got forewarned of what is coming if they don't do their best.
The same way, I hope other will not blame the bloggers here for being animated or excited in their posts, they just want to save the enterprise. Their motivation is to uphold the superior standards of the purple and gold and dispel mediocrity. If the Lakers continued with Smush and the scrubby plays of the past, Kobe and PJ will say goodbye then how long do you expect us to be again in the thick of the fight. Right now, we're not that excellent, just good and continue to be very good.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 09, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Edwin/AK
""Now the FO cheerleaders on this blog are saying Cupcake should be Executive of the Year!!! what for doing nothing! Since when, did someone got a promotion for doing nothing?"
When the right move may very well have been not making a move at all."
Exactly. Or how about signing D-Fish? I know people say that one was gift wrapped, but he got it done. And the year is nowhere near over. The trading chip that is Kwame Brown could be used to get a piece that puts us in a position to win a championship.
Executive of the Year is a stupid award anyway since most teams are built over the course of multiple years, not just one.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 09, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Edwin,
It's not a question of "buying into the lochness." I'm not claiming Kupchak is making people say "R.C Buford who?" But fairness means acknowledging when somebody has done well for themselves. And right now, it's hard to argue that Kupchak's decisions over the last 365 days or so haven't been pretty good.
He could have folded to pressure to trade Bynum in the proposed deals for Kidd or JO, but didn't. And Laker fans should be thrilled he didn't, because the team would be significantly worse if he had. In the meantime, the Lakers were willing to part with Bynum to get KG, meaning he did have the proper perspective.
The trade for Ariza has been fantastic. The Lakers have undoubtedly come ahead in that one.
And even if you wanna argue that Fisher "fell into Kupchak's lap," he still brought him into the fold and wouldn't be the first GM to benefit from a lucky break.
And that's not even getting into drafting Bynum or Farmar in the first round (with Critter also looking like a keeper) or Walton and Turiaf, who are absolute successes for second round picks.
Obviously, there have been mistakes on Kupchak's part, but they're also increasingly becoming a matter of issues past, not present. If you wanna keep clinging to the past when judging Kupchak, that's your perogative. But you should at least acknowledge that you're not willing to move beyond the past. Again, I'm not saying Kupchak is the perfect GM or poster child for perfection. But to dish against him without even recognizing what's gone well isn't really fair. I'm not even sure there's a point in doing so.
Also, letting Fish go to Golden State (because the Warrior's contract offer was ridiculously high) had absolutely nothing to do with Payton getting traded to Boston. GP was traded to Boston in part because the Lakers wanted size (Mihm) and in part because GP played poorly with the Lakers. And hasn't really played well since. Retaining Payton would have been pretty stupid.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 09, 2008 at 10:16 AM
AK
I agree partly on your post to give some credits back to Cupcake for choosing Farmar and Critt (he has to choose somepne, isn't it? and nobody picked on these guys so it fell into his lap.) but he is still a Cupcake for acting irreponsibly as a GM when Big Ego was traded hastily, this time he made good by sticking to his guns on Bynum. As I said he knew the info on Bynum, we don't, however he pleaded with Rod Thorn and even got insulted by Thorn & reprimanded "not to call him again if he cannot give his request", Cupcake pleaded. Again with Larry Bird, he was about to ship Socks & LO for JO but Bird insisted on including the monstrous contract of Troy Murphy that's where the stalemate existed. Later on, Cupcake insisted to just go with one player instead of two for one.
With regards to Fish, why not reward the player that beat San Antonio with that 0.4 of a second shot? If Lakers can re-sign a scrub for $ 6M for five years, ship Butler for Kwame why not Da' Fish?...one of the contributors of Laker dynasty in 2000. If Warriors and Jazz could reward him, why not the Lakers? Nothing is ridiculous with that contract and G. Payton a future hall of famer is not stupid, he is one of the players responsible for giving the Heat the Championship the following year. Maybe that is just a coincidence huh? He is a better player that Atkins, Jermaine Jones, and this PG Terrel. Nope, I will never agree that G. Payton is a stupid player, I'll go with that statement to my grave. lol!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 09, 2008 at 11:29 AM
AK,
To add some more, mentioning Lochness does not refer to this thread or to Cupcake. Those are two distinct urban legends. I'm just trying to tease you on that water horse on the succeeding thread. It resembles to lochness isn't it or to the Chinese dragon this coming Chinese New Year. Beware of the year of the rats.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 09, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Edwin,
If you're gonna hold Kupchak in contempt for "rushing" the Shaq trade, that's fine, but then you need to hold the other players involved with the circumstances leading up to the trade equally accountable. Shaq made the deal next to impossible because he made it perfectly clear that he was willing to sign an extension with about three teams (Miami being one of them). No team is gonna gut their roster to rent Shaq for a season. That Shaq and Buss were feuding also didn't help matters, since it provided a notoriously thin-skinned Shaq less incentive to cooperate.
Kobe didn't do the team any favors, either. You think it was coincidence that he signed his new deal the DAY AFTER Shaq was traded? The team felt an extreme pressure to move Shaq ASAP so they could lock up Kobe (who was definitely flirting with the Clips) ASAP, and one wasn't gonna happen without the other. I'm willing to bet the proverbial farm on that one. Thus, the need to move things along in quick fashion. Obviously, Kupchak could have gambled by waiting for the best possible deal. But that's also gambling on Kobe ending up somewhere else. I'm not sure I'd want to risk that.
Again, I'm not trying to make Kupchak into a better GM than he is, because there have been mistakes. Avoidable ones. But at the same time, his hands were pretty much tied during the Shaq deal, so there's only so much venom that can come his way, in my opinion. Besides, when you look at what the Lakers originally got in that deal, it actually wasn't all that bad. Where they came out looking boned was in trading Caron Butler (see earlier referenced mistakes).
As for Fish, getting 6 mil in '04 isn't the same as getting 6 mil now (since I assume you're referencing Walton's deal). Everybody and their mother thought the Warriors were paying out the nose for Fish (including the Warriors, who looked to trade him reasonably quick in large part because of salary). I totally understand why the Lakers didn't resign him, especially considering they weren't gonna be in title contention anyway that season.
And yeah, I do think it's more or less coincidence that the Heat won it all when GP was there. He helped, for sure, and hit a couple big shots. But I absolutely think Miami would have won it all with or without him. And to some degree, that doesn't even matter, because he played like ass with the Lakers.
And by the way, I knew the lochness reference was in jest, so no worries. I didn't take offense.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 09, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Edwin Gueco,
"however he pleaded with Rod Thorn and even got insulted by Thorn & reprimanded "not to call him again if he cannot give his request", Cupcake pleaded. Again with Larry Bird, he was about to ship Socks & LO for JO but Bird insisted on including the monstrous contract of Troy Murphy that's where the stalemate existed"
there is no concrete evidence as to what EXACTLY the deals for either J-Kidd or JO were, so it's wrong to assume why each deal wasn't done.
In my opinion the only deal that Mitch Kupchak has made that I wasn't enamored with was the Kwame for Butler trade. I can even justify the Shaq trade because a trio of Kobe-LO-Butler would be pretty damn good right now.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 09, 2008 at 03:33 PM