Game Thread - Lakers at Sonics
January 14, 2008 | 7:03
pm
First day of the rest of Lakers fans' lives? Well, at least the next eight weeks. Here we go...
-AK
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written by the Kamenetzky brothers.
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From todays LA Times:
Eager wouldn't even be the word," said Corey Thomas, who accompanied his brother to the MRI exam. "I wish I had a dictionary in front of me right now to find the perfect word. He'll probably be toothless by the time he comes back from grinding his teeth while watching the games. I do know this -- he's going to work very hard, twenty-four [hours], seven [days a week] to get back and help this team win."
BYNUM IS A WARRIER! READING THIS GAVE ME GOOSEBUMPS BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN, I KNEW THAT OUR FUTURE IS GOING TO BE EVEN BETTER THAN I THOUGHT.
Posted by: janaya | January 15, 2008 at 08:58 AM
Xodus,
PJ Brown would be a nice addition, I think defensively he brings more to the table than C-Webb, but would he take the money we have to offer? C-Webb is actually getting paid $19 million this year by the 76ers, so taking the vets minimum might be okay with him. PJ Brown might not come back unless he gets a bigger paycheck.
I would honestly be happy with either guy and think both could be effective for 20-ish minutes a night. Going for a D-Leaguer or someone who was cut earlier this year (Mbenga) doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference.
We need whoever comes aboard to bring something on offense, they can't just be Kwame Brown-light.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 15, 2008 at 09:08 AM
Hobbit Image,
"You said this: As unparalleled as Kobe remains when it comes to hitting an opponent with punches, the same can't be said about his ability to roll with them. I'd like to think Kobe will see the bigger picture, recognize this development as a hiccup (even if it costs the Lakers what was shaping into a terrific season) and keep sight of what appears to be a very good thing going in L.A. But seeing the bigger picture has never been Kobe's strong suit, so while I'm optimistic he will, "confident " would be a stretch."
My response: With respect, I think you're wrong and you have maligned Kobe. 2 years ago he was very supportive of Kwame and didn't say anything when Mihm went down. Last year we had SMUSH & we had a chance to get J-Kidd. Last year we also had Brian Cook && Vlad "Half-Pipe" Rad. Last year, Bynum was acting like a "kid" instead of playing like a man. Smush, Cook && Bynum is a lot for Kobe to carry, isn't it? This year he's got D-Fish. Farmar has really stepped up his game. We got rid of Cook & picked up Ariza. He's *NOT* going to revert. A lot has been said about who "The heart & soul" of the Lakers are. I think he served notice last night. His name is KOBE! He will carry us as best he can."
With the same respect accorded, I think you're overlooking a lot of facts/backstory. Kobe's history of not rolling with the punches and failing to see the big picture predates this current Laker squad. He didn't see the implications with shutting himself off from teammates. He didn't recognize the good thing he had with Shaq when it came to winning, that the team would eventually become "his." Obviously, it goes without saying that the breakup WAS NOT entirely Kobe's fault. Shaq played his role as well. But it also goes without saying that Kobe played a sizable role in making it happen. It took him not having Phil Jackson around to realize how great it was being coached by him.
And when it came time to deal Shaq, Kobe didn't realize that by basically putting the Lakers "on the clock" to make a trade before committing to them, he was putting the Lakers in a position of weakness at the bargaining table, which in turn puts Kobe in a position of weakness when it comes to the teammates he'd eventually get in place of Shaq. Again, Kobe was not the ONLY reason the Shaq deal was tough. Shaq's lack of flexibility hardly opened the team's options. But again, Kobe did the Lakers no favors during that time, which made the rebuilding road that much tougher.
As for the post-Shaq era, sorry, Kobe may have "supported Kwame" after Mihm went down, but he's also SUPPOSED to do that, both as a teammate and a captain. That should be a given, not resume material. Yeah, Smush wasn't the ideal starting PG and Cook was up and down, but most teams have a misplaced player or two. It's pretty normal. Most teams aren't perfect, especially ones so recently removed from busting up a championship core.
And frankly, despite how Kobe may feel, this rebuilding period has hardly been painful when compared against most teams. It had been three years since the team was blown up and they made the playoffs twice. And were it not for a ridiculous rash of injuries and a coaching change in '04-'05, it probably would have been 3-3. No, the team wasn't a championship contender, but most teams drastically starting over can't even sniff the playoffs, much less think about a title. Realisticially speaking and acknowledging the mistakes Kupchak has made, this period has been pretty productive. It may not have been to Kobe's liking, but frankly speaking, Kobe's liking is often very hard to cater towards. When they were winning titles, he wasn't all that happy, either.
As for the chance to "get Kidd," not only would have been the wrong one (since it would have cost Bynum, who clearly helps this team more than Kidd would have), but passing it by led to the "Kobe Video," which nobody can argue is "rolling with the punches" like a professional. For that matter, neither is going on a radio tour blasting your organization, calling for West to replace Kupchak, calling Buss an idiot, etc. Sorry, but that's not a guy who's showing the ability to roll with the punches. Let's be honest about this.
Having said all this, I also acknowledged in this post (which you didn't include) that Kobe has been terrific this season. Absolutely phenomenal. Both as a player and as a leader. Far beyond what I've thus far incorrectly predicted. I'm not looking to take that away from Kobe, because he deserves the praise. But at the same time, Kobe's history makes it impossible for me to think he couldn't ever lose sight of the bigger picture as a result of displeasure, since that's happened many times. I very sincerely hope to be proven both wrong and unnecessarily pessimistic. But it's a lingering concern for me, so I mentioned it.
Thanks,
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 15, 2008 at 09:31 AM
Jeff,
When Kwame Brown went down in the Chicago game Andrew Bynum started the next game and the Lakers struggled until they got a new rhythmn. At that time the Lakers were giving up close to 110 points per game.
The same thing has to happen here. There has to be an adjustment period.
Anyway, I heard, from the Lakers' announcers, that Kwame Brown isn't even in basketball shape yet. They say his ankle is still swollen and his knee still isn't where it needs to be. Clearly, his defense wasn't really there. I, also, heard Kwame say, when he first returned, that his side to side movement was an issue. And that he can't jump as high as he used to. Well, it was his side to side movement that made him so effective in the first place on defense. If that's not there...well, he becomes a position defensive player. If he doesn't regain his side to side movement then the Lakers' defense will continue to struggle.
But here's something more interesting.
Did you see Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, and Walton getting abused on the high screen and roll all night?
In the past my complaint had always been that when things went wrong, PJ would take it out on Kwame Brown when, most of the time it was Walton, who was blowing it. Well, with no Bynum or Mihm around PJ had no other choice but to hold Odom, Fisher, and Walton accountable. Did you see how he did his mass subsititutions?
The rotations were terrible! Kwame Brown would show in the lane to cut penetration and the Sonics would dish it off. Where were the rotations? They weren't there. I attribute that to the lack of rythmn these are playing with right now. But it will be interesting to see how PJ uses his substitutions now that Bynum and Mihm aren't around to replace Brown. PJ is going to have to hold those who don't rotate responsible.
Right now that would be Odom and Walton. Fisher is usually on the top of the key so it's not really him.
Man, this is too perfect!
And thinking about it over night and I can say this without shame. Yes, I am very happy.
And to PJ and Kobe Bryant I say this to you: You reap what you sow! And before you get all "angry" about it, think of it this way: What do you think the "journey" is all about? It's about purification! That's why the Israelies, of old, wandered in the desert for 40 years. They were being purified from their slave like minds. They were being prepared to be kings in their own society. They were being prepared to be Champions, if you will. And Champions don't carry themselves like slaves.
Kobe Bryant and PJ are like slaves to their political agendas. And that's what is being stripped away. The question is this: How long will they wander in the wilderness? Well, lets see some "pure" basketball and see what happens.
What is "pure" basketball? Hold those who aren't pulling their defensive weight accountable. That means Odom and Walton have to rotate when Brown goes and covers for them. If they don't PJ has to replace them. In the past he would have replaced Brown. Now that Bynum and Mihm aren't around PJ has to deal with the likes of Walton because he can't hide Walton's shortcomings anymore. In other words he can't blame Kwame for Waltons defensive shortcoming anymore.
I am laughing my azz off!
PJ, you are being stripped of your manipulations! Kobe, you are being stipped of your pride!
And there's nothing you can do about it!
Norm Nixon, James Worthy, Stu Lanz, and Joel Myers...I told you guys that you were barking up the wrong tree! And I told you that I was going to win this argument. Not because Kwame is a better player than Bynum. But because I can't stand your sarcastic point of view. Had you been nice and treated Kwame with some human diginity...I would have never prophesied against Bynum.
I told you that Bynum was going to be the next big thing in the NBA two years ago. I told you that Bynum was going to be a cross between Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar two years ago. I said he wasn't as strong as Chamberlain but wasn't as graceful as Abdul-Jabbar. I said he was going to redefine the position. But by the time all this was developing I decided to take up the cause of Kwame Brown because I didn't like the way you people were treating him.
I threw Andrew Bynum under the bus because of it! The stupid fans I can understand but the organization? The professionals? Screw you! You'll be LUCKY if Bynum is back at all. No, you won't be lucky...I'm going to make you apologize to Kwame Brown for your cruelty. And if you won't apologize Bynum will never be the same, again. I, IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, PROMISE YOU THAT!
Now gather yourselves and BE NICE because you haven't seen anything, yet! If you think it can't get worse...think, again.
I DARE YOU TO SAY ANYTHING, STUPID!
Be NICE!
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | January 15, 2008 at 09:38 AM
andand,
>>>huh? kwame brown had a double double though
He looks like he had a few too many double doubles, though. Kwame needs to stay away from In-N-Out and eat him some
vegetables until he gets thin enough to get his hops back.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 15, 2008 at 09:48 AM
Jeffs Aho,
You wrote: Bryant is resuming his role as the vacuum on the court. Seems like every time he touches the ball, it's another shot.
Victories from the past two games are fool's gold. It's easy to be "oohed" and "awhed" by Bryant's performance but he has got to start to balance his game if the Lakers look to advance deep into the playoffs.
My response: Why don't you give Kobe credit for knowing his teammates? Why don't you give Kobe credit
for the positive things he says?
He said: "This is a tough one," a tired looking Bryant said. "Tonight was one of those nights where I kind of had to read the mood of the team. Us kind of being a little deflated with [Bynum] going down, being a back-to-back, coming in on the road, it was one of those things where I just kind of wanted to be a lot more assertive."
In case you didn't see, here's the link to the box score.: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280114025
you'll notice that Luke was 1-6 and LO was 3-15. While you can argue that they would have shot better/more
if Kobe hadn't shot as much, Fish was 5-10 and Kwame was 3-4. So why did Fish and Kwame shoot so
much better?
Can't we give Kobe the benefit of the doubt in the "FIRST FRICKIN' GAME" without Bynum?!!!!! Why do you
INSIST on the Lakers playing losing basketball? Why do you INSIST on Kobe playing like KG when KG couldn't
do JACK $H!T playing team basketball on the T-Wolves for how many years?
I used to think the SF bay area fans were the most trifling fans on earth. I recant that belief. Some of
you *supposed* Lakers fans are actually worse.
Posted by: hobbitmage | January 15, 2008 at 10:00 AM
To jon & Amir & the others saying Kobe shouldn't have shot so much last night,
You're right, Kobe should have passed the ball more, to make his teammates better. Like that Kevin Garnett guy.
He would never jack up 44 shots. In fact just last night he only shot 17 times. What a giver.
Oh yeah, his team lost.
nevermind.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 15, 2008 at 10:17 AM
LTLF,
"He looks like he had a few too many double doubles, though. Kwame needs to stay away from In-N-Out and eat him some
vegetables until he gets thin enough to get his hops back."
Tell him to stay away from cake, too.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | January 15, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Mike T,
I actually agree with you on one of your points.
The Lakers have grown USED to Bynum in the middle, and they're going to have to adjust to playing with
Kwame in the middle. So I think they'll be choppy for a few games, but will eventually stabilize and be okay
with KB54 in the middle. Not as good as with Bynum there, but I think they can play better than .500 ball
until Bynum gets back if nobody else gets injured.
But then you have to go off and say other things that show that you're so ignorant it hurts.
And your blaming Luke and Lamar for Kwame's inadequacy just shows how little you understand what's
going on on the court. With Bynum at center, the Lakers have been holding teams at under 44% shooting
and at 33% on 3-pointers. Do you understand how they do that? Hmm? Do you Mike? Let me explain it
to you. I'll use small words.
If you have a good shot blocker, then your perimeter players can play their man closer and defend well
against 3-point shooting. When you play the perimeter closer, it makes it easier for those players to drive
past you to the hoop, but if you have a good shot blocker there, then he can block their shot or alter it.
Are you with me so far?
Thus with Bynum on the floor, Odom and Walton are used to playing the 3-point shooters closely, knowing
that if someone drives past them, Bynum will defend the rim. That's how they have been used to playing
for the past two months.
Now they have Kwame behind them. So they defended the three point line fine, but when anyone drove
past them, Kwame was back there with his matador cape allowing a layup drill. And THAT is how the Lakers
got outscored in the paint by one of the worst teams in the league.
Between now and Thursday, the Lakers will rework the defense to account for Kwame's inadequacy. They'll
go back to Luke and Lamar (and Kobe and Fish) playing more off of the 3-point line to prevent penetration more,
since Kwame is incapable of help defense. And the other teams' 3-point shooting will increase, but the defense
will be as good as it can be with Kwame as the anchor.
Let me give you a precise example of this - New Orleans. When Kwame was the starter, the team stayed with
penetrators to make up for Kwame's lack of skill, and that left Peja wide open for a barrage of threes. The
second time the Lakers played New Orleans, with Bynum in the middle, the rest of the team could defend the
three point line knowing that they had a good center defending the rim.
First game against NO - 56% 3-point shooting. Lakers lose. Second game against NO - 9.1% 3-point shooting. Lakers Win.
Watch on Thursday. Phoenix will shoot >45% on their three pointers, but the layup drill (at least in the half court)
will be greatly reduced. Whether the Lakers win or not will depend on whether Luke and Lamar can shoot a higher
percentage, and whether Kwame and Turiaf can stay out of foul trouble.
Lastly, I find it completely offensive that you are HAPPY that Bynum got injured. You are a terrible fan.
Please go cheer for the Celtics if your fandom means wishing for some of the best players to get injured.
No, I take that back, I wouldn't wish a bad fan like you on any team. Just go away.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 15, 2008 at 10:58 AM
what will be even better is when bynum becomes a warrior once he matures and learns to spell>
Posted by: CHRIS M | January 15, 2008 at 11:09 AM
sigh we're losing and AK the hater is on hear preaching about how Kobe didn't realise what a good thing he had with Shaq. I guess that's why they won 3 championships together. I think they both knew what a good thing they had with each other, but sometimes that just ain't enough. Hell 2 people in love don't always get married. Nothing in life is black and white, just shades of gray.
Why must it be that kobe wasn't appreciative of Shaq as opposed to he was ok with Shaq as a teammate but wasn't going to fight Buss to give Shaq the $30mil he wanted, especially considering the fact that he got slapped by Shaq in practice. If you were my editor AK and I'm your star write, if I slapped you in a meeting and got away with it perharps you wouldn't be so keen to fight for me when I'm about to get fired.
Why must it be it took a year away of Phil for him to appreciate him as opposed to he was ok with anyone coming back to coach him, dude just wants to ball, and he played the role of the bigger man by ignoring Phil's comments in his book and embracing him.
Yes kobe can be selfish (never mind he won 3 ships playing team ball), yes he played a role in breaking up the dynasty( never mind that shaq took a substantial paycut), yes he held a gun to Buss head and forced him to trade shaq (never mind that besides heisler's mystery informant no one has ever said kobe factored into the decision, especially buss).
I know you're a fan AK (of kobe and the lakers) but do the world a favor and stop beating a dead horse. Don't act surprised when kobe says he's not trying to go 44 shots the next game, don't bring up the shaq breakup the first day after our new shaq gets hurt, just report what you see and let all the other so called journalist time travel and read minds and infer what was going on.
Lastly call me a kobe lover all you want, yes I am but that doesn't mean you're not a wannabe hater either. Love him when things are going well, quick to bring out a nail and a cross at the first sign of trouble.
Posted by: Taliq | January 17, 2008 at 10:27 PM
fcuk the suns. I'm going to bed.
Posted by: Taliq | January 17, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Proud member of the 55 win band waggon ... we'll be iight folks ... count on kobe n dem boiz to do us proud
Posted by: Taliq | January 17, 2008 at 10:31 PM