Back to the drawing board
PROGRAMMING NOTE: Be sure to tune into Purple, Gold, and Blue today at 11. We'll be kicking around the Bynum injury, talking about where the Lakers go from here, FAs and potential trades... all with Bethlehem Shoals of Free Darko. Click on the show widget on the side of the page, and feel free to call in!
The Clippers did the Lakers a solid, beating Phoenix last night at Staples to allow the Lakers to maintain their perch high atop the Western Conference. (Ah, the Suns ain't that good anyway, right?) Ask Phil Jackson, though, and he'll tell you that if they'd like to stay there, LAL can't be a one man show as they were Monday night against Seattle. Everyone, from Kobe on down, needs to maintain the mindset of getting involved and staying that way. As it is, the Lakers- or at least some Lakers fans- are trying to suppress feelings of injury induced deja vu as nicks little (Sasha, Vlad) and big (Bynum) start to add up. It's widely suspected that the Lakers will add another body to the mix, to shore up the runway model thin frontcourt. PJ Brown says he's not interested, but Chris Webber is certainly an option (this deja vu thing really has legs).
What they'll be a mover and a shaker at the trade deadline is an open question, as there are good reasons to deal, and bigger limitations that could keep it from happening.
One silver lining to the Bynum injury? It shows how much Kobe believes in this team when he's healthy. There are, though, some lingering questions (and answers) about the injury aftermath.
Let's hope that the next time they vote on this subject, the results are different:
http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/115456
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 02:53 PM
The only trade i would put out is for Chris Mihm and a draft pick. Otherwise I would concentrate
on signing a free agent. Webber (who i like his offense but the defense is....)
Why Mihm, because he has been useless this season and to his benefit, he has not fully recovered yet. If he agrees to the trade, the team looses his bird rights.
Posted by: Charles | January 16, 2008 at 02:58 PM
Long Time Lakes Fan
When it comes down to it, its the second season that counts........but winning consistently in the regular season builds confidence. (and also makes us very happy) I'm starting to think we may not slide to far down the ladder because many others are not playing to stride.
The seeding like our resident pessimist BK (jk) said, is not as important, if you can win on the road like we can do. (actually I thought BK was more of a realist)
These next five games may be hard to take, but the end result may be worth it.
Lakers, pass the test before you, and prove you are worthy to accept the ring.
And THANK YOU CLIPPERS, made my day.
Posted by: AN1 | January 16, 2008 at 03:00 PM
"It's called the "WE MADE IT TO FIRST PLACE SO LET'S TRADE OFF HALF THE
PLAYERS THAT GOT US THERE" bandwagon."
are you serious??? all I can say is... Lamar Odom... tick, tock, tick, tock... When Odom's contract comes up, do you think he is going to ask for a raise? do you actually think he would be re-signed? Well... if we are going to move him, prime time is right now or during the summer. If we wait until this time next year, we're playing with fire, the dude is injury prone and instead of becoming MORE of a part of the offense, he has embraced the DISAPPEARANCE route a little to easily for my taste. Yeah, with Bynum playing, Odom is valuable but then again, wouldn't Dennis Rodman be valuable with Bynum in the lineup? 16 rebounds and SIX POINTS??? Surely there's a maniac out there who would like to make a name for himself as our new Dennis Rodman at PF??? it's not like the Lakers are known for NOT paying guys that produce. If you produce, the money will come your way. SURELY there is somebody out there making $5m/year or less who could give us more than Odom at PF CONSISTENTLY not every 3rd or 4th game?
Hey, if Chicago was willing to move Noah, I would be all over that. That dude is a winner and while he may not be a star in this league, that dude could be like another Battier and those guys are good to have around.
Posted by: TaosHum | January 16, 2008 at 03:05 PM
Mamba24
Put me on GET WELL SOON BYNUM BANDWAGON
Posted by: LAL_Fan | January 16, 2008 at 03:06 PM
Wow... that's something! A PLAYERS poll where the NBA players themselves say who has talent but yet has squandered it. Amazing.
I won't say who the players voted for, because it's not the day for that. Come on man, we ALL believe you have the talent... now go make something with it!
Tully,
Let me see... trade a multi-time All-Star for a non All-Star?
Why wouldn't I do this deal? Especially considering the long run. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if we had Caron Butler.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | January 16, 2008 at 03:07 PM
Charles,
I think Mihm is in a precarious situation. His rehab has gone poorly, and when he was playing, it's not like he was really that good.
I love his soft touch around the rim, but the dude could benefit from hitting the weights. He should have the strongest upper body in the L if he just went in and worked it while giving his ankle some rest.
Mihm = probably gone this summer unless we also lose Kwame & can't pull Gasol from Spain.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | January 16, 2008 at 03:11 PM
LET'S GO LAKERS. WE ARE STILL A DOMINANT TEAM WITH OR WITHOUT ANDREWSKI. WE STILL HAVE KB24, LO AND REMEMBER FISH. WE DON'T HAVE SMUSH ANYMORE, SO WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A BALANCE.
SEATTLE GAME WAS THE FIRST GAME WITHOUT BYNUM, AND I THINK THE REST OF THE LAKERS WERE LISTENING TO AM570 (LOOSECANNONS). STEVE HARTMAN IS SUCH A PRUDE. ANYWAY, I LISTEN TO 710 NOW AND I WAS GLAD TO HEAR K BROS THERE. NICE INSIGHT ON THE BLOGGERS ON THAT SHOW.
ANYWAY, LET'S GO LAKERS!!!!
SUNS....DENVER...DALLAS....SPURS....CLEVELAND...BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LAKERS #1 TEAM IN THE WEST.........IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I WAS ABLE TO SAY THAT.
:))))
juno
Posted by: juno | January 16, 2008 at 03:12 PM
LET'S GO LAKERS. WE ARE STILL A DOMINANT TEAM WITH OR WITHOUT ANDREWSKI. WE STILL HAVE KB24, LO AND REMEMBER FISH. WE DON'T HAVE SMUSH ANYMORE, SO WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A BALANCE.
SEATTLE GAME WAS THE FIRST GAME WITHOUT BYNUM, AND I THINK THE REST OF THE LAKERS WERE LISTENING TO AM570 (LOOSECANNONS). STEVE HARTMAN IS SUCH A PRUDE. ANYWAY, I LISTEN TO 710 NOW AND I WAS GLAD TO HEAR K BROS THERE. NICE INSIGHT ON THE BLOGGERS ON THAT SHOW.
ANYWAY, LET'S GO LAKERS!!!!
SUNS....DENVER...DALLAS....SPURS....CLEVELAND...BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LAKERS #1 TEAM IN THE WEST.........IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I WAS ABLE TO SAY THAT.
:))))
juno
Posted by: juno | January 16, 2008 at 03:12 PM
Tully,
in your link about MJ scoring
If you noticed, Michael made 75% of his 38 shots taken
Kobe's never been that hot with that many attempts, if he could, I would say shoot all day long.
But Kobe forces way too many bad shots and shoots too low of a percentage
One thing I did like about the Sonic game though was that he made nearly half of his shots and a majority of them were in the 20 foot or less range. if he can continue to gets these great looks.... shoot shoot shoot... but the better defenders in the league make it very difficult for a scorer to get a good look in this range.
Mike P
Posted by: YOU EVER NOTICE | January 16, 2008 at 03:14 PM
Sign C-Webb now. We ain't got nuthin' to lose.
Posted by: xtro | January 16, 2008 at 03:15 PM
Nothing new for Phoenix, make Nash scorer but cut all his passing lanes. LO should, I hope, rediscover his inner peace and refresh how he played against Marion. Fish should score on Nash on every opportunity, to make him work, we know he can not defend anyone. Kwame (no bashing allowed) should take Amare to basket and in fact should be reminded of one of successful games he had during his Lakers years it was Phoenix series 2006.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | January 16, 2008 at 03:20 PM
You Ever Notice,
Nice point.
Unfortunately, around here you run the risk of being called a Kobe hater if you so much as make a well-intentioned critique of how the team could have played better. I guess to some people it doesn't matter if one player takes more than half the team's shots with everybody else standing around, so long as it results in a W.
At the end of the day, Laker fans, myself included, have to wonder whether this practice will translate to a deep run in the playoffs. Last I checked, it's stilll a 5 on 5 game, not a 1 on 5 game. The interesting thing about this team is that it does well when #24 does less than more.
Posted by: Edmund | January 16, 2008 at 03:20 PM
Long Time Laker Fan,
The salaries match for both Marion or Stat = Odom. Personally, I'd take Stat due to our 4-5 injury status. But if this was the start of the year not knowing about Chris Mihm not being fully recovered, Kwame reinjuring himself, and acquiring Ariza, I would go with Marion.
For now, I would really push a Walton + Vlad and 1-2 round draft picks. They sound desperate.
Call their bluff.
Posted by: Charles | January 16, 2008 at 03:30 PM
Long Time Laker Fan
Just to give you an idea for the trades, even I 99% sure Suns would not trade to division rival, esp Lakers. I would NEVER TRADE BYNUM for anything, look at Kobe comments regarding Drew after Sonics game. I will trade in the hearbeat LO straight for Marion, considering my strong belive LO experiment going on 4th year is failed, either he can not play with Kobe, or Phils system I don't know. Marion is already an ALL Star, don't need to have ball in his hands can be reliable 3rd, some nights 2nd option, and with Drew back we have SUPER POWER - LA LAKERS back and running for many years to come. Again just a one man opinion
Posted by: LAL_Fan | January 16, 2008 at 03:30 PM
LTLF
Interesting and I agree that the Suns would never help the Lakers...especially being in the same division and losing to the current Lakers twice already.
But let's go through your scenario for "funsies"
"Shawn Marion for Lamar Odom (straight up)"
I might be crazy but I fully believe LO>Marion. Both have the same style of play and both are disturbingly inconsistent offensively. Marion is quicker but he's also shorter. Offensively, Marion causes no mismatches, no double-teams. Whereas LO creates a few double-teams when close to the post. LO is a better passer as well. But most importantly, LO is fine being the 2nd or 3rd man. Marion wants to be #1 and that's a no-no next to Kobe...Kobe-Shaq round 2 if Matrix comes to the team.
Amare Stoudamire and filler for Andrew Bynum and filler.
Besides the fact that Bynumite will eventually be a more dominant player.
Besides the fact that Amare has lost a step since surgery
Besides the fact that Amare likes to shoot from 3
You have major "I'm the #1 player on this team" problems
I personally believe both trades are no good as we get less back for what we're sending out. And most importantly, we're trading off team chemistry for minimal returns. Team chemistry is extremely difficult to build (example, look what happened to the bench mob after Cook/Evans were traded...they're still trying to get back to Mob status)
Posted by: Bynumite | January 16, 2008 at 03:36 PM
Mitch Kupchak was on KLAC yesterday and he more or less said that the Lakers aren't
currently looking to pick up anybody for the whole season. They're looking to look up
someone on a 10-day contract - though he also did say that they are talking with Chris
Webber, so I guess it could still go either way.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 03:45 PM
LTLF
"It's called the "WE MADE IT TO FIRST PLACE SO LET'S TRADE OFF HALF THE
PLAYERS THAT GOT US THERE" bandwagon."
that pretty much sums up 90% of the posts on this blog.
the other name for that blog is "Lets trade our garbage for the other team's all star." bandwagon.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 16, 2008 at 03:45 PM
Mamba24
your optimism has been sorely missed around here.
Posted by: sixonezero | January 16, 2008 at 03:48 PM
BK,
A real serious question.....
Are you the voice of Jack in the Jack In The Box commercials!?
Posted by: TheCaucasianSensation | January 16, 2008 at 03:59 PM
Mamba 24
Put me on that get well Drew bandwagon. I don't get a chance to post to often but in my spare time read the majority of the posts and yours tend to be great. Like the Kwame poem today!! Anyways, keep up the great work.
Long Time Laker Fan
The Shawn Marion deal would be done, not in a heart beat, but pretty damn close. The only reason I would be tentative is because how well the team played when Drew was in the middle and the number 2 guy. The team was winning and rolling with Kobe, Drew, and LO (and the rest of the guys) but with that said, Shawn is just as good on the boards as LO and is definetly more consistent on the offensive end as well as being a really good defender (including one-on-one D, steals, and blocks). I doubt Phoenix would ever do this though for various reasons. Obvisouly they don't like us and we don't like them and this would be roberry unless LO really can't play alongside Kobe and has been held back all the years he's been a Laker and finally finds himself and fulfills that potential ALL OF US have discussed to the point of puking.
Drew for Amare would be roberry as well. The Lakers would be robbed of a true center with greatness written all over him while we get a undersized center (Amare is a PF) who's fortay is power, no real back to the basket moves (maybe a couple moves at most), doesn't really D up but can get a block because he's athletic, and has a free throw line jumper that with practice could become real consistent. On the other hand, there's Drew who at the age of 20 and his 3rd year in the league, in my opinion, has actual post moves (back-to the basket) that are far beyond Amare's and can/will only get better. He eats boards like no other and is a gazillion times a better team defender and one-on-one defender. Those attributes will also get better as he matures. There's so much more you could compare but I don't think there is a single blogger, pro analyst, sports writter, GM, owner that would trade Drew for Amare. The kid is special. Amare has been an all-star and is young himself but the upside on Drew is just nuts. Plus those micro-fractures surgeries kinda just linger even though he seems to have gotten back from them. It doesn't matter though, Drew I think will end up being a better center because that's his natural position and the promise he's shown in just one year is undeniable.
Posted by: Tushar 24/7 | January 16, 2008 at 04:02 PM
LTLF,
I'd trade Odom for Marion straight up. But there's no way I'm trading Bynum for anyone, especially not for a guy who doesn't care much for D and rebounding like Amare.
Posted by: Xodus | January 16, 2008 at 04:03 PM
LTLF
I wish they did do Odom 4 Mrion straight up!! A lot offans feel Odom is better,and Marion fades away during the playoffs. the fact is after 3 seasons Odom has shown he is no better than marion and if often injured. marion (like Garnett, rarely is) that alone is a plus in my book . Marion also displays more of a killer instict than odom.
BTW it's not like teams leading conferences never made trades to try to better their team. Ex when AI went to the finals in 02 they were atop their division and thet trades for motumbo I think it was for Ratliff. Ratliff was having good #'s but after the trade fell to injuries.
Anyhow right now there are 3 players that are the weakest links ont this team.
Odom ,Brown and Walton and thats' in orderof their pay grade. Can anyone find out which playersin history miss the most high percentage shots (dunks,layups.%footers(lol)???????? imagine there is 3 such players on ! team!!!!!!!!! some guy is ragging on Kobe 4 taking so many shots yet with no Bynum Lo and Lw go 4 for 21 WTF!!!!!!! Yet somehow it's Kobe's falt, even Phil suprises(not) me with his comments sometimes, but we give him a free pass bcause he has 9rings.
Any 2 of the above need to be traded,they make the most after Kobe, they make the most mistakes, they miss the most high percentage shots, they cannot be relied on in the crunch(sans Kwame's last game w/free throws, and they are by far the most brittle(mentally and physically)players most injured!!!!!!!!
People can say if it ain't broke don't fix it, but really how far are we going to get with these 3 guys and no Bynum, expecially if Kobe doesn't do what KOBE does???????????????
Posted by: vi lakerfan | January 16, 2008 at 04:05 PM
I know I might get crucified for this...I have been watching some Marc Gasol (remember him, Pau Gasol's brother whom we drafted and still have rights to?) game video on Youtube. Yes, he is playing in the European league called ACB---a much more glorified version of the NBDL...actually, they're slightly better.
Marc Gasol's movement without the ball, his passing, and his post moves are nice. He can go to either hand in the post and has a soft touch...I didn't see much defensive sequences so maybe he is a bit suspect on D, I don't know...I think if we can't land Webber and if the team is slipping into panic mode in the Win-Loss Column then we should bring in Gasol. The guy has skills and is in pretty good condition.
Here's one of his tapes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ONckSWC5Io
Then again, I'm not getting paid for things like this. Gasol is pretty nice though.
Posted by: Rhon Salmon | January 16, 2008 at 04:09 PM
Long Time Laker Fan
BYnum for Amare and Jackie Johnson? no.
LO for Marion? ummmm, not now.
LO for Boozer? Brand? you have to ask?
Posted by: Vman | January 16, 2008 at 04:10 PM
video from today's practice is up:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/multimedia/0708video.html
PJ said that Vlad won't be available to practice for awhile. They hope to have him back for the long road trip. Team was lethargic after the day off. LO and Fish need to step up to solidify the effectiveness of the starting unit.
Kobe dropped another notewhorthy statement saying that Andrew is the key to their defense.
Posted by: lakers_sth | January 16, 2008 at 04:24 PM
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT BARKLEY SAYS!! HE'S A BORN LOSER, NEVER WON A RING BUT ACTS LIKE HE HAVE MORE THAN MICHAEL AND MAGIC.
Posted by: dacsila | January 16, 2008 at 04:25 PM
Longtime
I'd do the L.O. Matrix straight up but no way I'd trade Bynum for Amare. Not now, if you asked last year YES... Even though I felt that Drew would have a good season this year I can't say I expected him to become a double double machine out of the blocks. "YOU GO DREW BABY" I'd like to see Ariza back in the starting line-up while Drew is down, defense will be key and Kobe and Ariza bring it! Luke is fine with the second squad.
Posted by: LakerFaze | January 16, 2008 at 04:31 PM
" So I AM NOT PROPOSING THIS AS A TRADE.
But I'm curious about my co-Laker-fans views on these things. How would you feel about
one of these deals, if Phoenix were to offer it:
Shawn Marion for Lamar Odom (straight up) -LTLF "
If That happened, I'd WALK across America handing out "Mitch Kupchak is GOD" flyers and a piece of Bazooka bubble gum to all the crackheads along the way. NO WAY, NO HOW do I deal Bynum unless its for KG straight up.
Posted by: complex brotha | January 16, 2008 at 04:37 PM
Ever since the rumor odom-marion trade surfaced, I will do it , too bad management did/does not want to.
Posted by: GOV | January 16, 2008 at 04:38 PM
Another silver lining.
For all you Crittenton fans out there (and to a lesser extent, you Coby Karl fans) - with Bynum
out, there will probably be a few games in the coming weeks where the Lakers get blown out.
So that might provide some bigger minutes for the Critter to hunt.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 04:45 PM
Bynum's Injury Puts the Burden Back on Bryant
Basketball
By JOHN HOLLINGER
January 16, 2008
Lakers’ center Andrew Bynum will be out for eight weeks.
Los Angeles may be the land of sunshine and movie stars, but for Lakers fans, the past year has contained an awful lot of doom and gloom.
After a one-sided dismissal in the first round of the playoffs by Phoenix, the summer passed with Kobe Bryant issuing a trade demand, then kinda-sorta, but not really rescinding it. He never quite owned up to whether he still wanted out or not as he watched training camp and the first half of the season play out. Meanwhile in the offseason, Bryant managed to be caught on tape making scathing remarks about young center Andrew Bynum, and denigrating L.A.'s unwillingness to trade him to New Jersey for Jason Kidd last February.
If only Kobe had been the Lakers' GM, because that would have been one heck of a trade for the Nets. Bynum has blossomed into one of the best big men in the West, averaging 13.1 points, 10.2 rebounds, 2.1 blocks, and shooting 63.6% from the floor. Those numbers have been even better more recently: Since December 1, the 20-year-old center is averaging 15.1 points, 10.1 boards, and shooting a scalding 67.0%, and the Lakers have gone 17–4 in that time span to take over first place in the Pacific Division.
So sunny was the outlook that Bryant, of all people, recently said "We're a championship caliber team when [Bynum] is in the lineup."
Sadly, he could only force those words out after Bynum was already out of the lineup. He suffered a partial dislocation of the patella and a bone bruise of his left knee on Sunday that will keep him out of action for two months, a span in which the Lakers play 27 games. It's a rough 27 games, too — L.A. only has three home games in February, for instance, and has already played half its complement of games against the weaker East.
Even when Bynum comes back, there's no guarantee that the big fella will be able to do what he's done for the past two months. Bynum is huge — 7 feet, 275 pounds — and as a result, he's going to struggle to maintain his conditioning while he can't move around on the knee. Additionally, there are the obvious questions of regaining timing and chemistry to consider once he returns, all of which makes one wonder if we'll see Bynum attain such a lofty standard of play again this season. It's possible we'll have to wait until the fall.
Thus, the brief ray of sunshine in Lakerland has been obscured by another cloud. It's a shame because it blemishes one of the league's most improbable stories. The reason Bryant had made his trade demand in the first place was because he didn't think the Lakers' supporting cast was good enough for the team to contend, and that the club was wasting the best seasons of his prime by pairing him with a substandard crew.
He was not alone in this opinion. Most commentators, including this one, felt that Bryant's great talent might lift the Lakers to a playoff spot, but anything beyond that would be pure fantasy in the loaded Western Conference.
So, Bryant showed up for training camp, went through the motions, and made enough of an effort in the games that nobody could accuse him of mailing it in. Besides, he had to stay somewhat sharp for when he got his wish and was traded to a contender — you know, somebody such as Chicago or Houston.
Of course, that entire premise now seems hysterical. The Lakers went into yesterday's game owning the best record in the West at 26–11, and the supporting cast was the main reason. The development of young players such as Bynum and Jordan Farmar, the acquisitions of point guard Derek Fisher and ex-Knicks member Trevor Ariza (sorry Knicks fans, but you knew there was a dagger coming at some point), and the continued steady play of forwards Lamar Odom and Luke Walton, combined to give the Lakers one of the best supporting casts in basketball.
Ironically, Bryant had only just begun to realize what he had when it was taken away in the form of Bynum's injury. No, this doesn't mean the Lakers are suddenly going to lose all their games. But it does hurt when you look at the razor-thin margin separating the top teams in the West. Despite its momentary perch atop the conference standings, L.A. is only five games ahead of ninth-place Utah, and the 10-team race for the conference's eight playoff spots is so tight that it's very possible all 10 teams will finish between 48 and 56 wins for the season.
Let's do the math. If the Lakers go, say, 15–12 in their 27 games without Bynum, it would leave them at 41–23 when he returns, and it would still put them on pace for a win total in the low 50s. That seems reasonable, given that L.A. still has plenty of frontcourt depth (Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Ronny Turiaf) and might purchase more in the coming days (the names of P.J. Brown and Chris Webber have come up).
Thus, losing Bynum doesn't necessarily ruin the season. But what it does do is hurt their hopes of gaining one of the top seeds in the West, thus requiring them to run an unlikely gauntlet in the playoffs. For instance, it's almost impossible for L.A. to get a top-four seed unless they win the Pacific, because the other two division winners are guaranteed a spot, and the runner-up between Dallas and San Antonio in the Midwest is almost certain to have the other slot.
That puts them fighting with the Hornets and perhaps one or two other teams for the fifth seed in the conference. In the big picture, that could mean another rematch with Phoenix in the first round — and another first-round exit.
But before we reach that point, there's still one card that remains unplayed: Kobe. He's mostly avoided the kind of scoring explosions he put up in past seasons, and as a result, his Player Efficiency Rating (PER, my per-minute rating of a player's statistical effectiveness) is down to 25.0 after being 26.1 and 28.1 the past two seasons. Yet in the team's first game without Bynum, he showed what he can do when the situation demands, scoring 48 points in an overtime win over Seattle on Monday.
As a result, the big question L.A. began the season asking will be turned on its head for the next eight weeks. We no longer have to wonder whether the Lakers' supporting cast is good enough for a star such as Bryant to contend for a title. Rather, we can see whether Kobe has the goods to lift such a team when one of the key cogs is out of action.
Posted by: BD | January 16, 2008 at 05:00 PM
Tully,
Can you show us a game stats in that era where Jordan shot over 40 shots and scored 40 points? In the stats you put up, he shot 75%!! guys would not be complaining if Kobe were shooting that %. He was not hot, but he still shot 48 times..That is just crazy!! He took his team mates out of the game. If he is a good player then he should get his team mates better shots. He should get shots for Lamar closer to the rim where all he has to do is to dunk. You don't just decide to pass teh ball when you are triple team or double team and expect someone out of a blue to hit a 3 pointer..Bball just does not work that way. The best player on the team is supposed to create good shots for the less gifted players. period!! kobe does not understand that and it amazes me!!
Posted by: keen observer | January 16, 2008 at 05:05 PM
LAKERS ON TOP OF THE WESTERN CONFERENCE! THANKS BYNUM!
Now, Lakers are back at Kwame's hands. Lakers are in big trouble!
We need to get a big right away! How about Fesenko, who is playing in the d-league. How is Marc Gasol doing, can he be signed?
How about Kwame and Odom for Jermaine Oneal?
How about Kwame, Odom and a 1st rd draft pick for Amare and filler? Suns likes Odom and salary cap relief NEXT YEAR FOR Kwame's expiring contract.
How about Kwame for Joakim Noah and filler?
Any big man other than KWAME will make the Lakers better.
Kwame is not going to be funny when we start loosing.
I hope Kwame injures himself again even with Bynum still out. Then Lakers are forced to bring a big to replace Kwame for good or play smalll ball.
Lakers should play small and run more while Bynum is out.
Starting five for small ball...
Odom/Turiaf
Ariza/Vlad
Kobe/Walton
Crittenton/Karl
Fisher/Farmar
I just can't STAND watching Kwame play basketball. KWAME SUCKS BIG TIME!!! Nothing against him as a person, just his mental basketball skills is ridculously bad.
Posted by: Staples 24 | January 16, 2008 at 05:20 PM
hobbitmage,
First off, I want to start out by saying that I am a Laker fan for life... have been since I was 5 years old, and Im now 27. I want what is best for the team in the long run, which means that if I see a player do something that doesnt help the team overall, I will come out and say it. Thats what makes me a Laker-Lover, not a kobe hater.
No championships are won with people shooting 44 shots a game. When was the last time shaq, tim duncan, tony parker, dwayne wade, or other Finals MVPs even took 44 shots in any game, regular season or otherwise? Answer: Never. Even look back at Michael Jordan from the year he won his first championship on, and see he NEVER took 44 shots even in a regular season game... Why do you think that is? You think Kerr, Paxson, Pippen, et al never had off nights? of course they did. Thats no excuse. And buddy, history has taught us a lesson in those numbers. Even go so far back as wilt chamberlain. He won his first championship when he was averaging 17 points a game, not in the years he was averaging 40+.
Kobe-Ball like Monday night, is NOT good for a team that wants a championship under any circumstances. Even Phil said it in his post-practice interview. All analysts would agree as well.
Kobe came off firing from the get-go. Teammates never get a chance to get into the game when he does that. They have no way to get into a rhythm... No wonder everyone in his lineup was off but for D-Fish.
Luke shot his second shot midway through the third quarter. A real leader would have gone up to Luke after the first 7 minutes and told him to look for his shot. A good leader would have created more shots for Luke, D-Fish, LO, and some more dunks for Kwame.
LO's shots were forced. He had an off night, but he wasnt getting any looks created for him, he was forced to find them himself. A good leader should have helped him find his shot by creating some good looks for him.
As far as your percentages, Kobe's shooting was closer 47% then 49%. he was a -3 for the game, which means that if the game was just the minutes he was in, the lakers would have lost the game. Hes lucky the bench came in to save him. The starters are much better than they showed that night, and the main reason was because they were sitting around watching Kobe play, and couldnt get into rhythm.
My main point is this: I feel as though when Kobe comes out firing, the whole squad gets into a timid, lets defer to Kobe mode. That is not good. That is not what a leader wanting a championship should do. Just because I dont think Kobe is playing to his potential as a leader or even a scorer (he still isnt as efficient as other scorers are), doesnt mean I dont see his greatness or appreciate some of the things he does do. It means I think he isnt perfect, and still has a lot to learn, and some improvement left to do.
Posted by: Adir | January 16, 2008 at 05:24 PM
Long Time Laker Fan,
If the Lakers traded Bynum for Amare Stoudemire, I'd be pissed.
If we traded Lamar Odom for Shawn Marion, I'd have mixed feelings, but a lot of them would be hopeful.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 16, 2008 at 05:30 PM
I wish people would stop bitch'n about Kobe shooting too much.
Kobe stated he had to shoot as a result of:
a) his young teamates being dazed as a result of the Drew injury
b) 2nd game of a back to back
c) late arrival to Seattle
d) no practice time to get used to Kwame
e) the veterans players were hesitant (i.e.: afraid to shoot, which this passionate Laker fan could see in the eyes of Lamar and Luke)
Although he did not say this, I will say it for him: KB24 wants that #1 seed!
KB24 does not want to go through what he felt last year (26-13; 42-40; and a 1st round exist).
The Kobe hate on this blog is sick.
Man, when he retires, only then will you appreciate his greatness!
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | January 16, 2008 at 05:53 PM
wait a minute, Joakim Noah AND/OR Tyrus Thomas may be available? Oh my God! I'd be willing to move a first round draft choice + ??? for either. We've got Kareem and Rambis here to coach them - and please, no insane posts saying Kareem wouldn't know what/how to teach Tyrus Thomas anything - we could put them on an offseason training program like Bynum had and MAN! look at the Lakers going into next year, Farmar, Crittenton, Ariza, Kobe of course, Noah or Thomas and Bynum??? Would they take Odom + a first rounder for say Noah, Aaron Gray, and a bad contract or ??? They could put Odom at PF and Joe Smith as backup Center.
SIGN ME UP!
Posted by: TaosHum | January 16, 2008 at 05:57 PM
If Chris Webber does join the Lake Show, doesn't he remind you of Vlade Divac? Nice range, good passer....don't know if he flops good enough though.
Posted by: Nigel | January 16, 2008 at 06:23 PM
Another source for a big man.
PJ Brown has already turned the Lakers down. Chris Webber may choose another team.
In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the reason the Lakers haven't picked someone up already
is that they're waiting to see if they get Webber.
I already mentioned some of the best D-League big men.
Here's a third option - an underutilized recent draftee. There were several big men drafted
in the second round of 2007 who are getting almost no play for their teams. They mostly
make the minimal salary, and languish on the bench. Perhaps the Lakers could persuade
one of the teams that has such a player to trade them for Coby Karl + a future draft pick.
A less desirable option would be to trade them Crittenton for their unused big + a future
draft pick. Or maybe it could be a two for one for a higher salaried Laker (Vujacic being
the most likely candidate). Either way, the advantage of this method of adding a big is
that it doesn't add to the Lakers salary.
Here are some of the players I'm thinking of:
Nick Fazekas - Dallas - 6'11" PF
Picked #34 overall, was a 20 & 10 guy in college
Played in 2 games, currently playing in the D-League
Jermareo Davidson - Charlotte - 6'10" PF
Picked #36 overall, has gotten a few minutes in garbage time for Charlotte
Josh McRoberts - Portland - 6'10" PF
Picked #37 overall, got a couple of minutes in 3 games, now in the D-League
bear in mind Portland has a full roster PLUS they have 3 first round picks next year,
PLUS they have Rudy Fernandez playing overseas. They'd be more likely to go for a
2-for-1 or 3-for-2 of some sort. It's not like they're going to keep McRoberts next year and
dump one of their first round draftees.
Kyrylo Fesenko - Utah - 6'11" PF/C
Picked #38 overall. BIG body.
6 pts, 7 rebounds, 2 blocks against the Lakers earlier this year.
Only played in a few games for Utah -- currently in the D-League
currently in the D-League.
Herbert Hill - Philadelphia - 6'10" PF
Picked #55 overall, hasn't played yet.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 06:23 PM
LTLF
"For all you Crittenton fans out there (and to a lesser extent, you Coby Karl fans) - with Bynum
out, there will probably be a few games in the coming weeks where the Lakers get blown out.
So that might provide some bigger minutes for the Critter to hunt."
And why are you not a Critter fan? We all know he has got some talent. Why?
Posted by: Staples 24 | January 16, 2008 at 06:39 PM
Check out the standings TODAY, print screen and copy and paste on a word doc.
Cherish the hard work we've done this far and hang tight until Bynum gets back. It's going to get interesting. We're a better team than last year when Bynum wasn't that much of a factor, so hopefully we'll be ok.
Colorado loves the Lakers!
Posted by: Hugo Boss | January 16, 2008 at 06:42 PM
44 shots in 42 minute. You've got to be kidding me that he's turned the corner and is willing to shars. I was hoping that he had, but he's a sociopath and just doesn't get it. By the way, I love Bynum.
Posted by: Shag | January 16, 2008 at 06:46 PM
Geezz people..now were ready to trade half the team away over one close game were Kobe had to carry the team this one time. Well okay...there may be plenty of days like this coming up but if every one do there part and contribute Kobe won't need to go Kobe every game. We lost a Warrior no doubt.but the show goes on. The game still has to be played the same way it has been. Kwame will have to step up that's all there is to it...and as much as I don't care for Kwame he is being thrusted into a bad situation with no real back up..and throwing Braveheart in at Center..makes us terrible thin at PF...especially when were already short a serviceable maybe PF/shooter in Vlad. We can still win..and our weakness is our strength right now. We know what teams are guna do..we know were they will attack..so why not punish them with hard nose D. That's what's guna keep us in games. There aint one team I feel as if we can't beat..but Kobe is guna have to involve his mates early and make the opposition respect OUR game.
Posted by: Lakeraholic | January 16, 2008 at 06:51 PM
I've been lurking on this blog for about four years, but thought I'd come out of the dark long enough to consider your question -- it is an interesting one.
The short answer is that I think the timing is wrong for the kind of trade you are discussing. Also, considering what's been said about the personalities involved, I'm not sure it would ever be a right time for that particular trade. But, I don't know either of the guys well enough to really judge.
From what Laker players have been saying in the press, one of the factors in their success this season has been good team chemistry that helps them to play well together. Trading "good guy" Odom for either of the unhappy Suns players could cause major disruptions -- both from what the team loses and what they gain. That's a major emotional adjustment for the players to make, especially when they're trying to get used to the Bynum situation. And, in the long term, how would either of the ex-Suns feel about being in Kobe Bryant's shadow?
I suspect the team would be better off by taking on an additional player with their empty roster slot (either free agent or "D" league). That would be a big adjustment, but probably not a major destabilizer.
Regardless of what happens, my guess is that it will take a pretty wild series of games (and possibly a few horrible ones) before the team settles-in to a level of play. I hope I'm wrong on that score. With Brown playing both injured and out of game shape (regardless of opinions about his basic ability), and a shallow bench behind him, it's hard to guess what that level will be.
I'm a "Long Time Laker Fan" myself (since Wilt/Jerry/Elgin days), and appreciate the quality of your recent posts.
Posted by: Doc | January 16, 2008 at 07:04 PM
Staple 24,
LTLF is a Critter critic. He wants to prop him in order to raise his trade values.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 16, 2008 at 07:18 PM
Two years straight odom smokes marion every time they meet and yall want to swap em straight up?? You guys are insane. Odom is inconsistent and highly paid, but can make his own shot, play in the post, and has Stepped up in the playoffs rather than stepped down like marion. You all b*tch and moan about consistency. Shaq knew better, the playoffs count baby. Phil knows that too, thats why he'll blow a game to teach a lesson. Our depth will get us there. And WHEN we win a championship this year, you will all be happy we have a passionate driven Odom running third option over a cranky whining marion who fades away when a real defense shows up (not to mention he fades away playing with NASH--the ultimate make my guys better guy, when kobe jacks up 50 shots whats he gonna do??)
I'll take odom over marion every day of the week and twice on sundays. Heart counts for alot (See fisher over smush if you question it) Now if we could have em both--well then thats a different story, fish/kobe/lamar/marion/bynum backed up by farmar/crit/ariza/turiaf/brown--wow wow wow. but now I'm dreaming.
Stop bagging on LO.
Posted by: jandro | January 16, 2008 at 07:21 PM
In case you're curious about Rod Benson.
They're currently showing a D-League game on NBATV with his team playing.
Benson is #10 in blue.
I'll post some comments in a few minutes
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 07:21 PM
Charles,
>>>For now, I would really push a Walton + Vlad and 1-2 round draft picks. They
>>>sound desperate.
>>>Call their bluff.
Uh, no. They're not desperate at all. And I'm sure there are MANY teams that would be willing
to trade for either Marion or Stoudemire. And I'm absolutely sure they wouldn't give up Amare
to the Lakers unless Bynum was going to Phoenix in the trade. But I do think they would do
Marion for Odom straight up.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 07:26 PM
Rod Benson notes:
He's tall and wiry, kinda looks like John Salley when he first came into the league. He's very
active without the ball. Strong rebounder. Good quickness going up and down the court.
His position defense seems okay, but he's thin, so he'd get pushed around by any really
strong post players. Nice little pick and roll right there, caught the ball and layed it in. Good
hands.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 16, 2008 at 07:33 PM