Very bad news for the 55 win bandwagon
Because you can't get to 55 without getting 50, and Phil Jackson said Saturday at practice that because of a slow(ish) and uneven start, the Lakers aren't getting to 50. No doubt injuries have played a role, as six different players have missed games, led by Kwame Brown's 12. L.A. might add another player to that list, as Luke Walton (real estate mogul) is expected to be a gametime decision Sunday night after hurting his ankle Friday at practice. That means the Lakers could be shorthanded again when they face the red hot Warriors at Staples (6:30 p.m, FSN). In the meantime, pay attention to Andrew Bynum's wind- in a what feels very much like a Jacksonesque tweak, PJ told reporters yesterday that Drew's fitness has gone the wrong direction as of late.
Mark Heisler takes a look at a declining Shaq. And in New York, for reasons nobody can quite determine, James Dolan says Isiah Thomas' job is safe.
Hoopsworld catches up with Trevor Ariza.
Now that he's done hanging with Floyd Mayweather, could Mark Cuban be working on bringing J-Kidd to Big D?
Just motivationfrom Phil. Doubt them into it. With a bunch of teams with 8 losses, they are in great position to take hold of some position early on with a great run these next 10 games.
Posted by: wondahbap | December 09, 2007 at 10:15 AM
When does Phil consider his coaching into the mix? If the Lakers are not going to win 50 then do we need to make some trades? A coaching change? Is Phil saying mediocrity is sufficient? When should we expect to win 50? PJ's zen master act is corn. He needs to show he can develop young NBA talent (Bynum, Farmar, Critter, Sasha, Ariza), after 4 years establish an LO offensive comfort zone and win 5+ games in a row.
Folks who say Lakers need Jason Kidd are loopy. Kidd is too old and too expensive. Besides if Kidd is the answer with Kobe, then he should be the answer with Vince Carter. Not. Lakers are better with LO, DFish, and Farmar than Kidd, DFish minus LO and Farmar. Point guard is not the Lakers problem. For all you Laker player traders out there -- the Lakers don't need outside shooting, a rebounder, a "Veteran" presence in the locker room (Charles Oakley), a defender (Ariza fits that bill), a big man --
What the Lakers need is for the high salaried coach Phil Jackson to get more victories like Denver. Golden State is a very good team.
Posted by: Todd | December 09, 2007 at 10:18 AM
It's clear Phil is looking for a winning streak. Golden State should be #3 tonight. All is great in Laker Land with so many options available when Dec 15 rolls around. Something is going to happen this year I can feel it.
Go Lakers and play Critter tonight.
BD
Posted by: BD | December 09, 2007 at 10:19 AM
BK and AK, any news on whether Kwame Brown has been dieting or whether he has gotten a hand transplant since he's been injured? Either of those would be a welcome development so any inside scoop would be appreciated.
It really is quite nice not watching Kwame fumble passes, miss defensive rotations, air ball free throws, and break the backboard with his 3 foot chunks that he likes to call shots.
I think there should be a rule that if you can't shoot at least 25% free throws then they should kick you out of the NBA.
Can't wait to see what we get in return for Kwame's piece of crap expiring contract.
Posted by: SHAQ FAN | December 09, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Todd
wow...u really took that "not winning 50 games this season" thing pretty hard. did you really think that this was a 50 win team even before big chief triangle said they weren't? this is just a jab to try to get his team motivated.
Posted by: sixonezero | December 09, 2007 at 10:36 AM
Phil Jackson should put his criticism on Kwame and not on Bynum. If you look at the overall performance of the two coupled with thier improvements from last year, BYNUM has done remarkably well while Kwame has regressed. Bynum is producing double-double, PJ asked Kwame to produce close to double-double on his exit interview a season ago, this was PJ's expectation from Kwame after the 2005 series with the Suns. Expectation on Kwame right now has gone from low to very low, people including his Coach thinks his doing fine because of that. On the flip side, BYNUM's expectation is very high, his contributions to the Lakers has had an impact and at age 20 he should be praised by his Coach..
At age 20, you wonder if Phil has the ability to develop young guys, not just in terms of basketball but as a person and as a human being. We all know Phil can handle the likes of Rodman. Kobe grew up in Phil's taeching and is so arrogant, is this what we going to expect from Bynum and the other young kids, because this is Phil's parenting result.
Coach K can do a lot better for the young talent we have. Phil should be coaching teams like New York, Denver or Houston right now.
Posted by: Staples 24 | December 09, 2007 at 10:45 AM
After reading Phils interview I felt compelled to drag out my old copy of John Lennons MIND GAMES and listen to it over and over again.
The only problem with Phil is he has been playing these games for so long now, I wonder if they can be effective anymore.
I mean he has called out Kobe for his commitment, said Ronny must have a glass jaw, said Lamar had to turn it around IMMEDIATELY and now Drew missing a game, his conditioning is called into question. I just hope he achieves the desired affect and doesnt alienate his team.
MH
Posted by: michael h | December 09, 2007 at 11:10 AM
"There are quiet a few players, playing on lesser teams, in 1 and 2 guard positions that are better than Parker and Ginobili, that never even thought about being selected for All-Star games."
Alright, I don't really know which players ever thought about being all-stars, and which did not.
Parker came into the league with good speed and ballhandling skills. He didn't have good court vision (an innate trait IMO, not something that can be learned) average passer, average defender, poor shooter. He's worked hard on his outside shooting, made improvement, but still not a great there.
There aren't that many classic PG's in the league - a few teams have none. Hands down better PG's than Parker are:
Nash
Kidd
Paul
Arenas
Baron
Marbury
Deron
Miller
Ford
A few combo guards like Iverson or Crawford.
Parker belongs somewhere in the second tier group of PG's
Billips
Tinsley
Bibby
Hinrich
Duhon
Harris
Terry
JWill
Felton
Some of the younger guys riding the pine out there, like our own JCritt have more skill and star power than Tony.
More on Parker and Manu later...
Posted by: HAB | December 09, 2007 at 11:14 AM
Todd,
HELLO!!! Anybody home?
Have you compared Farmar and Bynum's play this season to their play last season? B > A. That would be called "developing young NBA talent."
Kidd and Carter is not the same as Kidd and Kobe. Not even close.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | December 09, 2007 at 11:16 AM
Bynum, only playing 25-30 minutes per night, probably doesn't get as much of a workout as he did during the summer. He may need to add additional work in if he wants to keep his conditioning level up.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | December 09, 2007 at 11:20 AM
I've been harping on the Lakers needing to get a young "enforcer" PF and... I actually came up with 2 possibilities:
1. Sheldon Williams on Atlanta? he seems to be on the outs there
2. Channing Frye on Portland? also seems to be an odd man out.
We're not going to get a front line guy, you have to gamble on someone, like we did with Kwame. Take somebody who, for whatever reason is in the wrong system, etc, etc, and because they are young, may be unmotivated to improve his game in his present situation because they don't believe their hard work will pay off, etc. etc. Obviously talk to them before the trade, bring them in, show them some love and attention and assure them their hard work will pay off, that we have a slot for them.
I'm sure people will say one or the other or both suck but these are the type of guys who you can realistically take a chance on. We're not looking for an allstar here, just a solid guy who can give us possibly a double double every night and provide a real enforcer feeling in the middle that other teams would have to acknowledge. I like Turiaf but I just don't ever see him giving us 30 min/game every game so that makes him perfect to back up the enforcer.
oh no... here we go again, try #2...
Wheeee! try #3!
try #4! should I start talking about the hot Asian chick who plays pool on tv again? then this post will never see the light of day...
and we're BACK!!! technically this is try #6!
Posted by: TaosHum | December 09, 2007 at 11:30 AM
Didn't know that about walton, wow that sucks. We need all the depth we have against the run and gun Warriors. Let's hope he plays. Yeah this is motivation by Phil, but he's also being somewhat truthful, it would not surprise me if the lakers only won 45-49 games (it would suck, but wouldn't surprise me)
Posted by: o2designz.com | December 09, 2007 at 11:31 AM
Clearly Phil Jackson is trying to motivate his team in his typical "old school" fashion. Hope it works.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 11:46 AM
I hope PJ's movtivation tactics work as well. The Lakers have a golden opportunity to stay with the "top" teams in the West and perhaps pull out in front if they string a nice win streak here. San Antonio has jumped out in front of everyone and we play them on Thursday. Phoenix lost last night to the Wolves and we're right there with Dallas, Denver, Utah, New Orleans, GS and ahead of Houston. I know our Lakers can do it as long they work hard and play team ball. Man, it seems like we haven't played in weeks. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | December 09, 2007 at 12:32 PM
hab.. u crazy..............
tony parker is NOT a tier 2 pg... i would take him over most of the tier 1 group whether it meant starting a new franchise, or winning a game today.
Posted by: tp | December 09, 2007 at 12:36 PM
It's plain to see why Phil is talking the way he is. He says it plain.
"We haven't really started to do some of the other structural things we want to do with the team," said Jackson, who agreed to a two-year contract extension on the day of the Denver game. "We need to open a run again and find a way to win two or three games in a row and get some momentum."
When Phil speaks of "structural" things he's talking about the proper spacing in the offense and the instability of the defense. He's talking about how the 1st unit plays one way and how the 2nd unit plays another way.
He only wants on philosophy of basketball. There should be only one structure to the game. Defense is the name of the game. Over the last 10 games you can see it plainly that there's no structure to the games at all. It's just up and down and divvy up the stats in the end. That's not going to win 50 games. That's going to be a 50-50 outcome. That's 41-41 over the whole season.
Notice how he mentioned the teams "habits" and not the talent? Those habits are probably a reference to Jordan Farmar, who likes to change the tempo of the game when he comes in. He's probably referring to Andrew Bynum's defensive "habits" that aren't too cool. (I really don't want to argue about that one.)
But these guys are 20 and 21 years old so what can we really expect?
And for all the people who keep calling for more touches for Bynum. Well, if you look at the games, Andrew Bynum, when he gets an entry pass into the post usually doesn't covert. Bynum converts when he gets a dump off or off an offensive rebound. That's not a bad thing. He's a good finisher when he's close to the basket. But when he has to initiate a play to the rim off the execution of the triangle...that's a different story.
If the Lakers were to actually get Bynum more touches from actual entry passes...he'll shot less than 50 percent from the field.
That's what I see when I watch Bynum get the ball in the post from the "execution" of the triangle.
mike
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 12:39 PM
Mike T,
Hey, the system is working fine. It was actually me deleting the post, because I accidently thought it was a repeat on the previous thread you'd already left that comment. I didn't see it was on the new thread. Sorry about that. If you put it through again, it'll go live, for sure.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | December 09, 2007 at 12:42 PM
87-88 throwback jerseys tonight? You can order your special edition jersey, just like the one Kwame would have worn, at Lakerstore.com.
Make your check payable to David Stern Merchandising Inc.
Posted by: Vman | December 09, 2007 at 12:43 PM
The autobots should bring a new aspect to the "live" blog tonight.
Posters will have to anticipate the action if they want their comment to be timely.
Posted by: Vman | December 09, 2007 at 12:51 PM
AK,
I was getting the same response last night when I posted it. I thought it didn't go through so I posted it again right now because I didn't check the last thread.
mike
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 12:54 PM
SOME INTERESTING STATS…AND LAKERS VS. WARRIORS...
I have never been a huge fan of statistics as they are always colored by context and interpretation depending upon the user’s point of view and/or motivation. However, there are some early season stats that I thought I were pretty fair indicators of where teams ranked:
POINTS PER GAME – DIFFERENTIAL:
(01) Boston +13.94
(02) San Antonio +8.95
(03) Detroit +7.73
(04) Utah +6.42
(05) Orlando +6.29
(06) Phoenix +5.80
(07) Denver +4.95
(08) LAKERS +4.42
(09) Dallas +3.47
(10) GOLDEN STATE +2.89
(11) New Orleans +2.50
(12) Houston +2.30
POINTS PER GAME – OFFENSE:
(01) GOLDEN STATE 110.36
(02) Phoenix 110.23
(03) Denver 107.09
(04) Utah 107.09
(05) LAKERS 106.31
(06) Orlando 104.66
(07) Indiana 103.60
(08) Dallas 103.57
(09) Memphis 103.15
(10) Washington 101.78
POINTS PER GAME – DEFENSE:
(01) Boston 87.73
(02) Detroit 92.21
(03) San Antonio 92.50
(04) Houston 93.70
(05) Philadelphia 93.85
(06) Atlanta 94.26
(07) New Orleans 94.35
(08) Chicago 94.38
(09) New Jersey 96.40
(10) Toronto 96.90
(21) LAKERSS 101.89
What jumps out at me is the top 12 teams in the points differential list, which looks very much like a top 12 teams in the NBA list. The 3 teams from the east in order are Boston, Orlando, and Detroit – all of whom have shown so far to be worthy. The 9 teams from the west in order include San Antonio, Utah, Phoenix, Denver, LAKERS, Dallas, Golden State, New Orleans, and Houston – all of whom have also shown so far to be worthy.
Finally, looking at the points offensive and defensive lists, it’s apparent that there are different styles in the west and east. West teams dominate the offensive points list while east teams dominate the defensive points list. When you combine the list, you can see that Boston and Detroit score higher in the differential list due to style of play in the east – at least that is how my bias against both teams reads the tea leaves. LOL.
Tonight’s game should be an excellent test for the Lakers. Remember that the Warriors humiliated the Lakers in the two pre-season games the teams playing Hawaii. And the Warriors have been red hot, losing only to Orlando the night after the Magic beat us. How do we beat the Warriors? Same way we beat the Suns. Dominate inside. Control the boards. Slow the game down. Play half court. Stay with their 3-point shooters.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | December 09, 2007 at 01:02 PM
HAB,
Are you serious? Marbury, Arenas, Miller, and Ford? Crawford? What have they done? Marbury is the biggest canse in the League. Arenas is a gunner. Miller is overrated (he has the same team AI is playing with now, and couldn;t take the next step), and T.J Ford sure won't make any team shutter with fear. Crawford is definitely not a PG. Please do not get basketball talent confused with great play. Parker's improved play has stopped ANY talk of bringing in another point guard after the flirtation with Kidd (if it was even going to happen anyway). Tony has a few thing Nash will never get, Rings. How good is that. Nash plays with just as many, if not more "stars" and can;t get it done. Tony is a killer.
Posted by: wondahbap | December 09, 2007 at 01:07 PM
Testing. This is NOT a post from a bot.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | December 09, 2007 at 01:10 PM
Mike T,
Okay. Hopefully it's working from here on out.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | December 09, 2007 at 01:13 PM
HAB,
I've got to disagree with your list. Some of those guys on your list are just gunners: Arenas, Marbury and Baron Davis. And your credibility is put into question when you're saying guys like Andre Miller and T.J. Ford are better than Chauncey Billups.
Let me just say I'm glad you're not running the Lakers.
And just because YOU don't believe a guy's court vision can improve with age doesn't make it true. There are some guys like J-Kidd and Magic who it just comes naturally to but others it takes work. Billups for example, was a shoot-first point guard early in his career and now he's one of the best PGs in the league. Look at how far Steve Nash has come from early in his career to this point. He learned the game and seems to improve every year.
And Tony Parker's speed is his greatest attribute. What separates average PGs from great PGs? The ability to get into the lane and wreak havoc. Parker does that as well as anyone in the league. Think about the top point guards in the league and that's the one thing they ALL have in common. If you can get into the lane as a PG you'll be as dangerous as any player in the league.
Posted by: Xodus | December 09, 2007 at 01:26 PM
After what LT did to Philip Rivers today, I think LT is a PUNK!
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | December 09, 2007 at 01:37 PM
Hmm..so Tony Parker, who is only the reigning MVP of the Finals, is not an elite PG?
Posted by: hariyahu | December 09, 2007 at 03:03 PM
"The Lakers will wear throwback jerseys from the 1987-88 season tonight as part of the NBA's Heritage Week."
Who Wears Short Shorts!!!!
Posted by: ajax | December 09, 2007 at 03:13 PM
One report say this: (L.A. Times)
"Kobe Bryant, Brown and Luke Walton (ankle) all practiced Saturday, but only Bryant -- who injured his left shoulder in the Lakers' last game, a 111-107 win at Denver on Wednesday -- is guaranteed to play."
"Brown, also a game-time decision, said he is hopeful he can play. He has missed the last 10 games because of a sprained knee."
Another report say this: (L.A. Daily News)
"Kwame Brown ran on a treadmill for the first time since suffering sprains of his left knee and ankle Nov. 18 against the Chicago Bulls.
He has been sidelined for 10games and is still a week or more away from returning to the lineup."
Who's right?
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | December 09, 2007 at 03:32 PM
The game tonight will be exciting. After a long lay off, there is a danger of rustiness and again over confidence. They should put the pressure ON. Lakers have better record but they lost to the Warriors twice in the preseason games. This will be a running game, put on those track shoes and may the best team wins. We need Sasha and Vlad rain of threes or at least go for a lay ups and fish for fouls because they have good Ft%. I hope PJ will play Critt, it's a running game, he can be a good guard of Davis and reserve those fouls away from Kobe.
Faith, you were right on what you said on the difficulty of posting. After BK explained it, I just post it and won't even look at those error comments. This is like getting pricked by a sharp needle, just trust AK/BK and forgive them for they do not know what they are doing with their posters. haha!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | December 09, 2007 at 03:52 PM
If Phil is saying that he doesn't think this team can win 50 games, then you can bet it means that he thinks they can and he wants them to get there by starting right now. I think he likes this team. As in really "likes" them. And I think he likes the many different looks and styles they give him to throw at different teams. They've proven they can beat a lot of quality teams already, including a total butt-kicking of their playoff nemesis, Phoenix. At their home, yet.
We'll see if his psych job works. It's hard to argue against a guy who's got 9 rings.
Posted by: CornerJ | December 09, 2007 at 04:05 PM
Is Kwame ever going to play? We need him to showcase that expiring contract?
Weekend games and Lamar don't mix. Here's hoping his head is clear tonight.
Golden State should be a game where should see a lot of Ariza and Critter.
Let's see if PJs verbal jabs light a fire under Bynum tonight against Biedrins.
Lakers win by 4
BD
Posted by: BD | December 09, 2007 at 04:43 PM
ANDREW BYNUM STATS…MORE LAKER STATS
--------------------------------------------------------
BYNUM REBOUNDS:
Andrew ranks 16th in the league with 9.6 rebounds per game and 3rd in the league with 17.7 rebounds per 48 minutes, below only Marcus Camby with 21.1 and Dwight Howard with 18.8.
BYNUM SHOT BLOCKS:
Andrew ranks 13th in the league with1.83 blocked shots per game and 15th in the league with 3.38 blocks per 48 minutes.
BYNUM DOUBLE-DOUBLES:
Andrew ranks 12th in the league with 9 double-doubles.
BYNUM SHOOTING PERCENTAGE:
Andrew ranks 6th in the league with 58.14%. His opposing center tonight, Biedrins, ranks 1st with 63.19%.
-------------------------------------------------------------
LAKERS SCORING:
Lakers rank 5th in the league with 106.3 points per game made, 21st in the league in points per game allowed, and 8th in the league with a +4.4 points per game differential.
LAKERS FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGE:
Lakers rank 6th in the league with a 46.93% team shooting percentage and 5th in the league with a 43.97% opponents shooting percentage.
LAKERS 3-POINT PERCENTAGE:
Lakers rank 11th in the league with a 36% team 3-point shooting percentage (Golden State is 16th with a 36% team 3-point shooting percentage – 6 team tie) and 4th in the league with a 33% opponents 3-point shooting percentage (Golden State is 25th with a 38% opponents 3-point shooting percentage).
LAKERS REBOUNDS:
Lakers rank 4th in the league with 44.6 rebounds per game made, 15th in the league with 41.8 rebounds per game allowed, and 5th in the league with +3.7 rebound differential
LAKERS ASSISTS:
Lakers rank 6th in the league with 23.3 assists per game made and 25th in the league with 22.7 assists per game allowed.
LAKERS STEALS:
Lakers rank 5th in the league with 9.0 steals per game made (Warriors rank 3rd with 9.3 steals per game made) and 28th in the league with 8.8 steals per game allowed.
LAKERS BLOCKS:
Lakers rank 18th in the league with 4.8 blocks per game made and 17th in the league with 5.1 blocks per game allowed.
LAKERS TURNOVERS:
Lakers rank 26th in league with 15.9 turnovers per game made and 15th in the league with 14.3 turnover per game forced.
-------------------------------------------------
These stats obviously tell us that the Lakers strength is scoring, shooting percentage from the field and 3-point line, rebounding at both ends, and passing for assists. I think the defensive field goal percentage figures bode well for our improved defense.
Much of the problems we are facing on defense can be attributed to our flaws on offense. We need to improve offensively by cutting down turnovers and steals allowed by other teams as well as cutting down on assists allowed defensively, which we can do by staying home on perimeter shooters, especially those hanging around the 3-point line.
Easy to say. Much harder to do. There are some good signs in these stats though.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | December 09, 2007 at 05:08 PM
Mike- 9 rings has no credilbility in what he says to the media, in one breath he says the lakers wont win 50 games, then next week he will say they can compete with any team in the league.
He might like Kwame's defense but what he doesnt seem to get is that doesnt win games for this team. The lakers are a better team when they are playing an up-tempo game, something Kwame doesnt allow them to play and really Id toss Odom in there too.
Bottom line is 9 rings thinks he wants to players to adjust to his system but the lakers dont have those type of players - except Kobe, who would be good in any system.
And what was the Lakers record in the post-season the last two years with butterfingers Kwame starting?
Posted by: lakerlover | December 09, 2007 at 05:20 PM
Mike T,
What did LT do to Rivers today?!?
Posted by: LakerFanForLife | December 09, 2007 at 05:21 PM
Kwame Brown was also back in action, although it was just on treadmill.
“Hopefully, I can play by the Clippers game (Dec. 16). So we’ve got all (this) week. That’s my goal, anyway.”
^^^^^^^
Posted by: mike | December 09, 2007 at 05:59 PM
HAB
By putting Mar bury in the first tier and Bill-ups in the second tier you have made yourself completely redundant and irrelevant you don't have a clue.Billups could very well be in the top three of the point guards......And Tony Parker is a definite top ten tier player.
Posted by: WHITE MAMBA 24 | December 09, 2007 at 06:03 PM
Philip Rivers threw an interception. Then he went to the bench and has a seat next to LT. LT got up and walked away with a look of distain on his face. The guy didn't need to do that.
mike
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 06:15 PM
The Lakers are a terrible up-tempo team. They are less than a 500 ballclub when they go up-tempo. When they play that type of game their defense never gets to set up.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | December 09, 2007 at 06:17 PM
After six scoreless minutes against Ariza, Bryant took over the Iverson assignment and together they held Iverson to just two points in the final period. The Lakers would win a tight one to improve to 11-8.
Ariza is still acclimating himself to the triangle offense but he's been a big part of team's most recent victories. Defense has been an issue for the Lakers but now with Ariza, the team has a new tool at their disposal.
Posted by: dice8up | December 09, 2007 at 08:24 PM