Like Alien vs. Predator, only with basketball
Call it Mamba vs. King. MVK, for short. Because no matter what other story lines you'd like to prop up for tonight's game in Cleveland (5:00 p.m., KCAL, TNT) the one people will tune in to see is Kobe Bryant vs. LeBron James. We talked about it in yesterday's "Purple, Gold, and Blue" podcast (click on the show widget to listen). Folks write about it in the newspaper. Charles, Kenny, and Ernie will comb over the matchup on the TNT pregame show. Hard to avoid, really, given the ludicrous star power (and incredible statistics- see Kobe, Lebron) both have. This, despite the fact that Kobe claims at this point in his career he's seen so many of these bright light, marquee pairings, they don't move the needle for him. Instead, Kobe says he'll focus on trying to get the most out of the Lakers as he possibly can, because despite the good start there's still plenty of work to do. "We're playing well. I think we can get much, much better."
The Cavs are coming off an embarrassing loss last night in New York, a little redundant, yes, since all losses to the Knicks are by definition embarrassing.
The key to Sasha Vujacic's improved play? Playing time, he says. A Little run, too, would help give Javaris Crittenton a chance to climb up the ESPN.com rookie rankings.
Magic at the Hawks/Heat game... we have nothing to offer Miami and with Alonzo going down, pretty much no shot at Haslem unless Miami completely throws in the towel which I don't think they are ready to acknowledge yet.
We could take back Smush's contract and just pay him not to show up, give them Farmar/Critt or Sasha, a draft pick, something else like Mihm or Luke? would Shaq want Luke? that's an interesting question right there... but that looks like a longshot...
Atlanta though, they've got a couple of guys, the most realistic is Shelden Williams, I'm not too big on Lorenzen Wright but he probably could be gotten cheaply, or as a throw in for some other player. Josh Smith? who knows? Atlanta isn't exactly genius central for building for the future. Solomon Jones looks like some kind of project, more work for Kareem? Zaza Pachulia? that is ONE UGLY DUDE but ??? who knows? he appears to be on the outs over there too... we'll give'm Coby Karl, trade ugly for uglier... oooohhhh! I'm the only one who sees this?
Posted by: TaosHum | December 20, 2007 at 11:16 AM
Lakers are playing well at this juncture against a few stiff competition but mostly lower-echelon teams. What would make them a champion-contending team would be better play from the four position and quality decision-making and fewer turnovers and tough defense, particularly against a top team like the Spurs, who are fundamentally sound and play a full 48-minute game on a nightly basis. Such qualities say are not a constant in this young Lakers team. I'd like to see a steady influence from veteran players added to the Lakers.
Posted by: Rollo | December 20, 2007 at 11:17 AM
Charles,
>>>My gut tells me go for a PF/C first. Package Mihm and Brown and a draft
>>>pick or two. Don't include Farmar or JC coz they are the future.
I'm with you on this one. In fact, despite all the trade proposals I throw up
here (pun intended), I'd prefer to keep all the players that are in the current
rotation, and I'd also prefer to keep Crittendon. If the Lakers make a trade,
I hope it only involves Kwame, Mihm, and Karl.
On the other hand, if the Lakers could get someone really good by giving
up JC or Farmar, then I'd be all for it. For example, if New York got a new
GM and he decided to blow the team up and rebuild and was willing to
give up young assets to get rid of bad contracts, I would definitely go for
a trade like Kwame+Farmar for Quentin Richardson and David Lee.
I might even be willing to give up Kwame and Crittendon to get a young
PF or C that hasn't really busted out yet (e.g. Shelden Williams, Tyrus
Thomas, Jason Smith, someone like that)
Of course, if Kwame could stay healthy, then HE could be the other big
body in the front court and the Lakers would be fine. Or the Lakers could
sign one of the veterans like PJ Brown or Chris Webber as insurance
for if Kwame can't stay healthy.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | December 20, 2007 at 11:23 AM
Lakers need to come out aggressive tonight and dictate the tempo against the Cavs. This is a dangerous game for us because the Cavs usually get fired up because of their crowd and they seem to play with more passion and hustle at home. The Cavs are coming off an embarrassing loss last night in NY, so you know LeBron will come out in attack mode. The Knicks were able to get out on the break quite a bit last night and their frontline dominated the Cavs frontline. Lakers need to continue the positive momentum by winning tonight, because it's another opportunity to gain some ground on the Suns and tighten up the Pacific. This year the Pacific Division is there for the taking because the Lakers are closing the gap on the Suns more and more. Losing games that we shouldn't has hurt us in the past two years when it came to catching the Suns and seeding for the playoffs. The last three games on this trip albeit against weak teams record wise(Chicago and Cleveland better than record shows)will show how much improved we are particularly in the area of winning games that we've lost the past two years(0-3 vs Cavs last three games, split last year with Sixers and we were swept last year by the Knicks). Time to prove we belong in the upper echelon of the Western Conference. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | December 20, 2007 at 11:25 AM
Who said they don't want Odom's contract? They aren't rebuilding. They just signed Carter to an extension. They have Jefferson for a few more years. What they don't want, I think, is Jason Kidd, anymore. I think the Nets are tired of Jason Kidd and Jason Kidd is tired of the Nets.
The deal I put in was based on a dream I had.
But if you look at it, it makes sense for the Nets.
The Nets have just put Sean Williams in their starting line-up because he can play pretty good defense. Now if they put Odom at the 4 spot...that's not that bad.
PG: Fisher
SG: Carter
SF: Jefferson
PF: Odom
C: Williams
Walton would be coming off the bench for them.
If that were to happen then it would mean the Lakers would be going in this direction.
PG: Kidd/Farmar/Crittenton
SG: Kobe/Sasha
SF: Radmanovic/With Ariza backing him up
PF: Kwame/Turiaf
C: Bynum/Mihm
The whole dynamics of the game would change for the Lakers. Brown would defend the lane and Bynum would defend the rim. With a strong defense the Lakers would be running off their defense. That would mean that Brown would filling the lane off of fast breaks, which would negate the need for him to be totally effective from an offensive set play.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | December 20, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Magic Johnson mouths off a lot about trades but it's Mitch Kupchek who makes the deals and he NEVER talks about players from opposing teams. So all of this is a distraction. Mitch isn't foolish enough to mess with the chemistry of this team and especially the second unit by trading Farmar. Besides, they don't need a point guard they need a power forward.
If you don't want to mess with the chemistry of the team, the only package that makes sense would be to trade Kwame or Chris Mihm and J Critt for someone. But you'd be crazy to trade Jordan Farmar, who is the point guard of the future.
Posted by: Laker Seth | December 20, 2007 at 11:28 AM
"Heard a rumors on the cannons about a possible trade:
Lakers get J. Kidd
Nets get: Farmar, Vlad Rad, Kwame and 2 future draft picks."
I don't see the benefit in getting rid of Farmar (unless the Nets are just that interested in him). He's a solid, growing, young player whose contract is pretty low. He's a bargain. He's athletic and confident. He plays well with Bynum. He's a local kid who appears to get along with everyone on the team, and Kobe seems to really like him. I don't see why the FO would want to give him up.
I'd rather save Farmar and Vlad and throw in Walton and Critt. Critt appears good but is technically unproven for the Lakers and PJ won't give him the P/T anyway so might as well let NJ get some use from him. Walton is inconsistent, doesn't exhibit the confidence that Vlad, Sasha, Farmar, and Ariza do, and is becoming redundant on this team anyway. His play will probably not rise much over the years yet his contract cost will. Also Kobe seems to get frustrated with Luke often. Besides I'm sure having Luke around would make Richard Jefferson happy which could be good for the play of them both and the Nets team.
Posted by: maxle | December 20, 2007 at 11:31 AM
Long Time Laker Fan ,
Thanks for the reply. David Lee and Turiaf as Pf's would be amaizing? How is Q doing in Isiah's system?
Regards
Posted by: Charles | December 20, 2007 at 11:33 AM
Ron,
I don't see Riley trading Haslem. He's one of the few guys who D's up for them and what most people don't know is he's the team's captain not Shaq or Wade.
Posted by: Xodus | December 20, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Kwame can't play PF.
Mihm is a horrible backup C.
I like the idea of Kidd Kobe and Socks playing together, but I don't think it will happen.
Posted by: frank1rizzo | December 20, 2007 at 11:40 AM
I forgot, on my Miami post, I don't see Kwame as a real option for Miami unless they make the decision to tank the year and go for a lotto pick. Kwame has made it clear he wants to play Center so... if Miami wants to put $30 odd million into one position, be my guest, his contract does indeed come off the books at the end of the year... but we would want Haslem back, I don't see much else on that Miami roster unless you'd want to take a flyer on Dorell Wright and see if he has more room to develop. Of course... if Miami would be insane enough to part with their 1st round pick this year... which should be an awesome pick, they could send Smushie's contract back to us along as filler along with whatever other players would be involved...
which brings up NEW YORK!!! Let's plot and plan here, HOW can we get NY's first round draft pick? We know they are open to trading these types of things... maybe for a salary dump? or ??? Hey NY! Kwame Brown? Here, kitty, kitty...
Posted by: TaosHum | December 20, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Mike, there is no way that Kwame can play PF. He can't shoot anything outside of 5 feet (where Bynum excels offensively). He needs to be in the paint, and with Bynum there, it would create huge spacing problems. If you trade of Odom, you need to get a PF back because they would only be left with Turiaf as a serviceable PF.
Posted by: psp956 | December 20, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Trade Kwame for PF that will guard the Duncans, Boozers of the West and we will be set. Chemistry wise, it wont be scratched, salary cap wise, we wont be stranggled for the years to come and we will upgrade the only weakness that we have atm. Put Turiaf with some defensive-minded rebound machine PF and we will be set. We are one player away from championship form and it doesnt involve a superstar. Remember the 2000-03 championship run, we had some preatty good bench players. And this is a luxury to have. Having a deep bench is a giant step to a championship.
Btw, think Kidd's contract is the 3rd highest in the NBA and he will want an extension in that vecinity. Thats why he will kill our cap room. Check this out:
1) Kevin Garnett $22,000,000
2) Shaquille O'Neal $20,000,000
3tie) Jermaine O'Neal $19,728,000
3tie) Jason Kidd $19,728,000
5) Kobe Bryant $19,490,625
6tie) Allen Iverson $19,195,312
6tie) Stephon Marbury $19,195,312
Bringing Kidd to LA will be like getting one of those balloons mortgage, everthing will be peaches and cream and when other players contracts expire, we will have Kidds big ass contract, plus Kobe's. I dont see with both of those contracts how in the hell the lakers will extend Drew when his time comes and LO. We will need to get rid of someone. Just food for thought.
Posted by: watcher74 | December 20, 2007 at 11:46 AM
Brian Cook has played 6 minutes total for the last three games for The Magic.
Posted by: richard | December 20, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Mike, if they cant get it done with Kidd, they definetly arent gong to get it done with lamar. Lamar's contract is 14 million for 2 more years. That's doing them no good. I think they would rather get kwame's contract off the books and signing a free agent.
Anyways, like you said, I don't think that the nets will rebuild with VC and RJ, so thats why I don't even think the nets will trade kidd. Cause then they will have NO chance of competing.
Posted by: greek dude | December 20, 2007 at 11:52 AM
"Mike, there is no way that Kwame can play PF. He can't shoot anything outside of 5 feet (where Bynum excels offensively). "
I could have sworn we've been through this conversation a thousand times already.
But on the other hand...about 2 maybe 3 weeks ago I did see, in another dream, Jason Kidd throwing a pass to Kwame Brown. In was in a transition play. Kidd was a Laker and Brown was making the shot over the rim. Then I woke up and I remember Kwame had a white jersey on. And I thought to myself...was that a Nets uniform or the Lakers white uniform? I can't remember that part.
But Kidd was on one end of the court and Kwame was on the other end of the court making a basket off of Kidd pass.
The play was a transition play. So I don't know if it means that Kwame is going to transition to New Jersey, while Kidd transitions to Los Angeles. Or if Jason was making the pass to Kwame meaning the Lakers were going to get Kidd and Kwame's offensive game was going to change/improve because of it.
But that's a dream I had, too.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | December 20, 2007 at 11:54 AM
Is Hakim Warrick any good?
Memphis seems to be playing him lesser by the day, and they have got Stromile Swift and Darko Milicic supporting Pau Gasol these days.
If Hakim is any good, could he help the Lakers?
Posted by: Jai | December 20, 2007 at 11:56 AM
Kwame can play PF if he could cach the ball on offense and rebound and block shots. Dennis Rodman did.... But not KB.
Posted by: Charles | December 20, 2007 at 11:57 AM
I'm against trade invloving Jordan Farmar and even Vlade.
ONE MORE TIME! We're talking about chemistry here and Farmar is our 6th man and in major way responcible for our bench being one of the best. We need to remember - best team is not a collection of stars with oversized egos. Even if we're not winning this year, we're building for many years to come, building for another dynasty. Just look at Miami now and tell me was worth it to win at any cost and mortgage future for many years to come. They have Shaq for 3 more years - 60M and no way to trade or upgrade in visible future. I have no problem with JKidd but not for the price of our future, Farmar progressed so far this year, who knows how far he is going to go next one, but he does not cost a fortune. JKidd would come only if extention offer on the table, and we're not talking about MLE, probably something in the area 15-18m per year. Luke also valuable team member, who started to round up into form. With this trade we will empty our bench will put heavy burden on Kobe to score a lot like it use to be on 2 previous seasons. Lets all take a pause and "Thanks, but no thanks"
Posted by: LAL_Fan | December 20, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Let's hope the same officating crew from last year's game in Cleveland is not working tonight.
Posted by: LAKER TRUTH | December 20, 2007 at 12:08 PM
If the Nets are really looking to deal kidd a 3 team trade would be better for them to recover a good PG.....Lakers send Kwame an scrubs to the nets...76ers send miller to the nets ...nets send kwame to the 76ers for cap room....The 76ers really like the rookie PG they already have..Williams....Miller is on around the same money as Kwame...9mill a year....Who pays Browns trade kicker?
Posted by: Thirty2 | December 20, 2007 at 12:23 PM
The last "can't miss" acquisition of Hall of Fame players didn't turn out so well. Karl Malone and Gary Payton plus Shaq and Kobe was supposed to guarantee a record number of wins and the NBA championship. Wha hoppen? Malone goes down. Payton doesn't fit in. And we get our butts kicked in 5 by Detroit (younger, faster, hungrier...kinda like our current bench mob).
At the end of that season, we blew off 3 HOFs, and what did we get in return? Nada, zip, zilch (as in Brian Grant and assorted doorstops). Our cupboard was bare. And it has taken us years to get back to where we are now, with the 3rd youngest team in the league, #4 in the West and climbing weekly.
In case I have to spell it out, I like this team's chances. I even like Kwame, Luke, and Lamar. They each have a place and a contributing role to play as the season wears on, and particularly when we get to the playoffs.
Lakers-Celtics Final!
Posted by: CornerJ | December 20, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Did anyone else have a dream that a sumani was coming to the California beaches? Man, it was scary!
mike
You mean "Sumaki"...as in Sumaki Walker? Crap, that is a nightmare!
Posted by: LM | December 20, 2007 at 12:35 PM
The season is going ok.
It's amazing what Kobe's tirade has done to put the whole team on blast to put up or shut up. I like Bynum's purpose as oppose to anytime last year.
Keep the pressure on Kobe.
As for tonight's matchup, the Lakers should win if they are physical and play defense. If not, Cleveland will ambush them.
LeBron is playing better than Kobe right now. Kobe is taking too many bad throw up shots as oppose to shooting the 17 footers, fall aways, and driving runners.
He shoots too many 3s.
His shooting percentage should not be 44 percent. He should be shooting at least 47-48 percent. It's shot selection as Tex Winter has said.
However, he is sharing the ball and not jacking it up 25-30 times a night and that's good.
He is also putting more energy on the defensive end which maybe effecting offense.
All he has to do is take the good shots, square up and knock them down.
None of that Barkley like back em down junk or wild 3s.
If he gets a handle on all of that he'll resume his top spot in the league as the top gun.
His 2nd halfs the last 2 seasons have been better than the first half so stay tuned.
As long as we're winning........
Posted by: Lakerbake | December 20, 2007 at 12:35 PM
"Mike, if they cant get it done with Kidd, they definetly arent gong to get it done with lamar."
I don't think it's about the Nets ability to get it done or not. It's about the Nets being tired of Jason Kidd bad mouthing the organization. If the Nets trade Kidd it'll be because of that and not the idea of being able to get it done or not.
What they have in Kidd is a playing making triple double threat. What they don't have is a strong enough frontline, like everyone else in the league.
What they get in Odom is another triple double threat but from a different position. What they get in Fisher is stability at the PG position. Odom and Fisher is what Kidd's game is all about except for it's in 2 players. The benefit is that they strengthen their frontline with Odom.
Plus the Nets would get more points out of the combination of Odom and Fisher then they would with only Kidd.
I think the Nets would get more assists out of the Odom and Fisher combination than what they get out of Kidd by himself.
As far as money goes, what you say doesn't make sense.
The Nets owe Kidd 41 from the start of this year to the end of next year. This whole Nets/Kidd drama started when it was reported that Kidd wanted a contract extension, which the Nets were'nt willing to give him.
So if the Nets want to part with Kidd it isn't because of money owed him, it's because Kidd bad mouthed the organization.
Now if the Lakers send Odom to the Nets they would owe him 28 million from the beginning of this year to the end of next season.
That's 13 million less than what they would have to pay Kidd.
Now the Fisher and Walton contracts for the next two seasons, beginning at the start of this year, is for about 8.5 million and 9 million.
So the money is the same as if the Nets were keeping Kidd. Except after the 2nd year the Nets drop off 14.5 million with Odom's contract and they still have Fisher and Walton.
Now if they do trade for Kwame's expiring contract...what out there in the free agent market can they get for 9 million that addresses their needs?
I mean Gilbert Arenas is opting out of a contract that is paying him 12 million next year. Does that mean he wants more? Will Kwame's expiring contract help them sign Arenas? And how does that address their need for defensive help on the frontline?
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | December 20, 2007 at 12:38 PM
Kidd may be tired of rthe Nets, but I guarantee the Nets aren't tried of Kidd. They aren't making a trade unless it involves money, some talent, and picks. How much are we willing to give away? I'm pretty sure Bynum is STILL the piece they would want.
Can we argue them down? There are other people who'd want a piece of J-Kidd as well, it's not like they have to deal with us.
Kwame getting a pass from Kidd? He caught the ball? MUST have been a dream.
Posted by: Michael A | December 20, 2007 at 12:38 PM
Mike, do you dream every night about the Lakers? If you do, you might have a problem :)
In all honesty, I think its a little unbalanced in how you evaluate Kwame vs Bynum. You pick on every small deficiency that Bynum has, yet you focus on the only thing Kwame does well and not mention all the other huge holes he has in his game. Why is that?
Posted by: psp956 | December 20, 2007 at 12:38 PM
Guys,
why all this talk about trading for Kidd? What does he have to offer? This team is built for the future and that future may be now. I like the way Kidd passes but he is too much of a terrible shooter to be on a team like this. What I like about this team is that just about everyone can square up from the perimeter and hit a shot. To defend Kidd, all you have to do is lay off him and force him to take that ugly shot. Some night he is hot but most nights AWFUL. Why would we want to mess up a team that looks that look good for years to come? Why would we want to add an older player when we have Fisher? That's no disrespect to Fish because he is playing phenomenal ball. I look at Farmar and believe he can start now. Why would we want to mess up a good thing? Kidd hasn't proven anything to me and he has had decent talent in NJ? How do you like them apples?
D
Posted by: AD | December 20, 2007 at 12:38 PM
Marty Burns puts Kobe #3 in the MVP race, which i disagree, but I agree in one thing he said.....
"If the Lakers keep it up and finish in the top four of the West, this just might be the year he finally gets that MVP that has eluded him his first 11 seasons."
Here's the rest of the story:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/marty_burns/12/20/mvp.watch/index.html
Posted by: watcher74 | December 20, 2007 at 12:46 PM
Charles,
Long Time Laker Fan and I were throwing out a three team deal where we get Wright/Williams, Philly gets Kwame (his expiring) and our 2008 1st rounder, and Atlanta gets Andre Miller. There might be a small contract needed to balance salaries, but they're not that far off.
The good thing is Williams has his rookie deal still which is cheap and Wright expires at the end of this year. Financially it doesn't cause any problems at all.
Of course, it's not as glamorous as getting a HOF like J-Kidd, but it gives us a couple big bodies to play the PF spot.
Posted by: Andrew Z | December 20, 2007 at 12:47 PM
There is a difference between the best player and the most valuable player. MVPS play on teams that win something like championships or division tiitles.
I read somewhere Kobe saying that the team has responded to him saying he wants to win championships not go out in the first round and has worked hard because of it.
I dont know if I buy that, based on what was reported guys were already working on their games in the offseason ( except the usual suspects Kwame) to improve . plus Im sure every laker wants to win a championship.
Normally ripping your teammates and the organization you work for doesnt bode well to motivate people, so I suspect the players were working to improve well before Kobe said anything.
If he truely believes his words created this work ethic, that would be very arrogant on his part.
He might be surprised to know the Spurs dont even practice during the season, so just working hard isnt the only way to succeed during the season.
Kobe need to do his part on the court, which he is doing but wins and losses are based on what the rest of the team does.
AK-BK when you get a chance can you ask Phil if he had to go back to last season would he go with the same Kobe-ball model he endorsed at the end of the season? Did that help or hurt the Laker team?
Posted by: Laker Lover | December 20, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Sorry, but the infamous Hall of Fame season with Malone and Payton would have turned out great if it were not for the freak injury suffered by Malone, who had never been seriously injured for his entire career. Even with a hobbled Malone, we still beat a solid Minnesota and our nemesis (and the team that knocked us out of the playoffs the year before) the Spurs. Without Malone, we got dominated in the paint by Wallace, Payton lost his mind and got murdered, and the Kobe/Shaq feud went nuclear right before our eyes. With him, we would have won that series far more easily than the Conference Finals vs. the Spurs. Ah, what could have been!
Posted by: Tully Moxness | December 20, 2007 at 12:48 PM
Enough about Jason Kidd, already. Watching our current roster in action in recent weeks suggests that the last thing the Lakers need right now is an aging superstar with a huge price tag. Kidd is also a guy with so much personal baggage (see TMZ.com post from earlier in the week) that he would become a major distraction. This team has seen enough drama.
Winning is about teamwork and team chemistry. The Lakers are just starting to get their groove on. If you care to challenge that premise, look at what the Pistons (a true team in every sense of the word) did Wednesday night to the Celtics, a team built around superstars. In a televised interview, even Paul Pierce volunteered his props to Detroit.
With Kwame out so long, the Lakers healthy enough to suit up have established the best teamwork this franchise has seen in years. The real question is what to do with Kwame, Mihm, and to some extent - Ronny. I have to suspect that Mihm's limited minutes aren't just about his health; part of the issue has to be "how well he plays with others." If there is a deal to be made that involves players with a future, Critter and Coby2 right now are little more than spare parts. We need another big man who can play valuable minutes, either behind Bynum or at the 4.
We don't need a superstar with a high price tag. We need a big guy who can play his a** off and whose style of play conforms to the Lakers offensive and defensive schemes. There are signs that the Lakers are becoming a gem of a team. They just need a little more polishing and one more player to give them sparkle up front.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | December 20, 2007 at 12:52 PM
It seems like everyone wants to give up Brown as the big contract for Jason Kidd.
I would not break the deal if it seemed like they would take a Dallas deal if we did not include Lamar Odom instead of Kwame Brown. We don’t need Lamar Odom. He is talented and Kidd would help him and he would be the preferred player to keep but he also is less necessary with the development of the Lakers bench and Andrew Bynum.
The Farmar and Javaris Crittenton debate is a tough one.
Farmar is playing so well with the 2nd team and has shown a lot of hard work, guts, and professionalism. However, Javaris Crittenton is bigger and a better talent. He also has shown a penchant for sharing the ball too. I think he could do what Farmar is doing for the 2nd team and perhaps have Derek Fisher and Sasha rotating as his spot up shooter running mate.
As for adding Vlad Rad or Walton into the deal for salary cap matching reasons. That would be a steal to get rid of either of those 2 contracts. As much as we all like Luke, Ariza has shown that having athleticism and defense at the 3 position is just as valuable as all the passing Luke does. Luke’s passing is less of an impact this yr with the whole team sharing the ball. Luke is expendable and like Vlad Rad, his contract is way too long for what you get in return.
Lastly, as for draft picks, I would not give up more than 1 draft pick for the Jason Kidd deal. I think a draft pick, Odom, and Farmar/Crittenton is too much to give up. That is almost as much as Minnesota got for Garnett.
The good thing is they probably don’t want Odom for 1.5 seasons so here is my deal:
Kwame Brown
Jordan Farmar (KEEP JAVARIS)
1st round draft pick in 2008 or 2009
Luke Walton or Vladamir Radmanovic
New starting lineup
JKidd
Kobe
Odom
Turiaf
Bynum
New 2nd five
Crittenton
Fisher/Vujacic
Ariza
Vlad Rad or Luke
Mihm
Posted by: Lakerbake | December 20, 2007 at 12:56 PM
I think we need to stand pat unless we can add an enforcer power forward or Ron Artest to the team. I'm not sure J-Kidd makes us better than San Antonio. We need a bruising power forward who can rebound and defend. We need an enforcer in there.
Posted by: Xodus | December 20, 2007 at 12:58 PM
Anybody checkout the calves on Bynum lately? I swear they look bigger? Honest.
Posted by: 33StraightWins | December 20, 2007 at 01:01 PM
HAHA we call Turiaf "The Predator" with that underbite and permacreep look of his. But how can you hate on him? Yeah Sasha is surprising us with his play, but its all about farmar baby.
Posted by: straightpirate | December 20, 2007 at 01:01 PM
you guys are talking about Jordan Farmar vs Kidd? I was vehemently against trading Bynum for Kidd but Farmar? I like the guy but... we're talking about Jason Kidd here, I don't think people appreciate how good he is.
Bynum was a special case. There just aren't many 7 footers who have soft hands and aren't STUPID. Yes, the vast majority of 7 footers are DUMB. Look around the league, this is the best of the best in the world and Jerome James merits $30m?
Kidd/Kobe/Odom/Bynum? Where do I sign up? and Kidd isn't looking for a $20m extension, I saw he would take less to be on a contender...
Kwame/Kate Beckinsale + Farmar/young Christie Brinkley - definitely not Claudia Schiffer level + Luke/Drew Barrymore + a draft pick? for Jason Kidd/Jennifer Connelly...
I say YES! YES! YES!
Posted by: TaosHum | December 20, 2007 at 01:03 PM
THE LOOSE CANNONS HAVE NEVER BEEN RIGHT.
Can someone tell me a time when anything, ANYTHING concerning a possible trade with the Lakers was said on The Loose Cannons actually came to fruition?
I don't think it's ever happened.
I hate that show.
Posted by: Andrew Z | December 20, 2007 at 01:10 PM
Game 4 of the 2006 Lakers-Suns series is on NBATV right now.
Posted by: Xodus | December 20, 2007 at 01:13 PM
Corner J.
I couldn't have put it better.
Jkidd is still a great player. But is he worth breaking the chemistry in our current squad.
Chemistry is what we have in common with the best teams today.
I mean look at San Antonio, Detroit, Boston. They all love playing with each other (plus they got talent) and it shows in the standings.
In order to get Kidd we would have to give up a lot. Not only because he is a talented player but mainly because he has a HUGE contract and we have to match salaries.
We all know the all saying. "don't fix it if it ain't broken"
Posted by: Outsidergua | December 20, 2007 at 01:18 PM
"1) Kevin Garnett $22,000,000
2) Shaquille O'Neal $20,000,000
3tie) Jermaine O'Neal $19,728,000
3tie) Jason Kidd $19,728,000
5) Kobe Bryant $19,490,625
6tie) Allen Iverson $19,195,312
6tie) Stephon Marbury $19,195,312"
Wow. The only two people worth the money are Garnett and Kobe. Iverson's salary isn't offensive, but everyone else's is.
I see lots of obscenely wealthy players on crappy teams.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: JonKavulic | December 20, 2007 at 01:19 PM
JASON KIDD and KOBE BRYANT in the backcourt, are you kidding me?
I would do it in a heartbeat for Kwame, Vlad, Farmar and draft picks. Imagine all the passes KOBE< ARIZA
ARIZA, KOBE, ODOM and TURIAF will benefit a lot from JASON KIDD.
KIDD is good to go for three more years, CRIT will be very much ready by then.
All of a sudden, Deron, Paul, Nash and Parker have a legitimate compettiton. KIDD solves all those elite PG in the West.
The difference is KIDD and KOBE makes the Lakers an elite team in the NBA. No doubt about that.
After the KIDD trade goes down.
Get Kenyon Martin for Lamar Odom.
Now you have BYNUM< MARTIN< ARIZA< KOBE
Out: Odom, Kwame and Vlad
In: Kenyon Martin and Jason Kidd
Posted by: Staples 24 | December 20, 2007 at 01:19 PM
If Kidd is really an option, the Lakers should make the deal, especially if there is a chance Kobe doesnt re-sign with the Lakers.
The Lakers are not a championship caliber team- no team with D Fisher starting is going to win a ring.
Posted by: Laker Lover | December 20, 2007 at 01:30 PM
watcher74,
>>>Nets get: Farmar, Vlad Rad, Kwame and 2 future draft picks.
Farmar is the only player I would badly miss from that deal. So far this
season, he has played about as well as Kidd -- he doesn't get as many
assists or rebounds, but he's a much better shooter, and he runs the
team well. Kidd would be a big improvement defensively over Farmar
or Fisher.
>>>I dont know if this is the best scenario for the Lakers right now. This
>>>will cripple our salary cap for the years to come...
Actually, it's already crippled for the next two years, but if they extended
Kidd, that would make it crippled for another year or two.
But weigh that against the goodwill it would gain with Kobe. Kupchak
probably already has grown in Kobe's eyes with the improvement in
play by Bynum and Sasha. If he was able to get Kidd without giving
up Bynum or Odom, then Mitch would be back on Kobe's Christmas card
list (and also less likely to opt out in a year and a half).
>>>and we really arent that weak in the PG position.
There's the crux of the issue. I agree with you. I'd prefer to stick with
Fisher and Farmar and try to trade off out-of-rotation players for someone
who can actually play in the front court.
>>>If i were Mitch, I would be looking for a PF. A workhorse.
Exactly. How about trade Kwame and a draft pick for Shelden Williams.
Would you go for that? (ignore the salaries for the moment) How about
Kwame and a draft pick for Drew Gooden?
>>>Hell, I would even waive Kwame and try to sign someone like PJ
>>>Brown.
Waiving Kwame does nothing but free up another roster spot. The Lakers
still have to pay the 9 million in salary to him, whether they keep him on
the roster or not. And it's possible he will get healthy and stay healthy
and contribute.
The advantage to trading Kwame for a big who's more reliable is that it
doesn't push the Lakers further into the luxury tax. Also, I'm not sure if
PJ Brown would be willing to sign for the 1 million that the Lakers have
left of their mid level exception.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | December 20, 2007 at 01:35 PM
Look at it this way! No more KWAME getting beat by these elite PG's in the West. Then you add a Jaason KIDD that can match up well with DERON< PAUL< NASH AND PARKER, That's a way to beat Jazz, Hornets, Suns and Spurs. Whatelse can I say?
Posted by: Staples 24 | December 20, 2007 at 01:40 PM
Ron,
>>>I am not understanding on why we need to focus on improving the
>>>frontcourt. Bynum is becoming a star, Kwame makes his presence felt
>>>on the defensive end,
No. Kwame makes his presence felt on the injury list. He has missed more
than half of the games over the last year and a half.
I don't think the Lakers can count on Kwame being healthy during the
playoffs. It's basically a coin toss. Do you want to gamble a 50-50 chance
on whether your second best center will play or not when the chips are
down?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | December 20, 2007 at 01:43 PM
You guys have to read this before espn takes it off, I am actually suprised.
Surely not what media types wants us to believe.
http:
//proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3299&action=1&question24549=98171&question24550=98173&question24551
=98175&question24552=98177&question24553=98180&question24554=98181&question24555=98183&question24556=98185
Posted by: purplehaemoglobin | December 20, 2007 at 01:43 PM
Taoshum, I may be straight but even I know there's no way Kate Beckinsale should be traded LOL!
I'll reiterate what was said in one of those articles. We may be among the best of the west, right now. But we "hope it's the same when it comes to April."
Defense and consistency is key! Go Lakers!
Posted by: Faith | December 20, 2007 at 01:44 PM
Xodus,
"Game 4 of the 2006 Lakers-Suns series is on NBATV right now. "
And I'm at work, damn it.
Rick Friedman,
You know, I completely agree with you. I would love to see Kwame's contract moved for a player(s) that would probably be categorized as "role players" but just bring energy and toughness every night. Ideally they would be in the front court. As great as I think Jason Kidd is I have to believe that a deal that would send 3-5 of our guys out would seriously hurt our chemistry which is what I attribute most of our success to. Moving Kwame does nothing to hurt chemistry because he's never on the court.
A guy that I really like, but apparently his organization likes him too is Nick Collison of Seattle. Don't know if they would deal him for expirings and picks but I'd love to have him here. He's great on the glass.
Posted by: Andrew Z | December 20, 2007 at 01:44 PM