The Spurs are bright and big at night
(Clap, clap, clap, clap)
When AK's deep in the heart of Texas!
Sorry I couldn't bring the Laker Nation a little luck to go along with my jet lag. But in all fairness to myself, I'm placing more blame for this outcome on the Lakers themselves than my presence in the Lone Star State. Had I watched this roadie in my apartment, the Lakers would have likely suffered the same 107-92 trouncing, only without the benefit of me eating a pretty solid Chipotle chicken as a pregame meal. Unfortunately, my enjoyment of said pollo isn't an element that typically enhances a box score in the Lakers' favor. Or at least not on a night like this, where things began ugly and never got prettier.
A breakdown of the madness, for those with the fortitude to relive it.
The Good (Ain't a ton)
Rebounds and blocks. The Purple and Gold outboarded the Spurs 50 to 40, with Kobe, Ronny Turiaf and Andrew Bynum all flirting with or hitting double figures. For a team often starved for glass eaters last season, the Lakers have jumped out of the gate kicking ass in this regard. Seven swats were also worth smiling about, particularly since many came at Tim Duncan's expense. Between those aforementioned elements and Laker bigs doing a consistently nice job bodying up or just bothering him, Timmy was pretty much a non-factor. Although that just makes the outcome even more discouraging.
Andrew Bynum: Another double-double (11/12) off the bench for the kid, a night where he was easily the most effective of the Laker center trio. I would have preferred Drew's teammates feed him more often down low during the first half, which could have gone a long way towards settling the game down for the Lakers. Could have cut down on some turnovers. Could have cut down on some errant jumpers. Could have capitalized on his ability to draw a few fouls. Probably wouldn't have "won" the game for L.A., but I doubt it would have hurt.
Kobe Bryant: His offense was quiet but he really tried to crank things up defensively, blocking three shots, picking up two steals and generally trying to set a tone. He also rebounded nine times, which is always reflective of a good defensive effort. And for those who haven't noticed, #24 is cleaning the glass with Windex this season, the king of his shooting guard brethren.
Jordan Farmar: His 11 second half points were a nice burst, even if ultimately ineffective. But his zero assists highlighted a lack of Laker ball movement (and shots falling), which was in part due to...
The Bad
... Ugly offensive execution: There's a fine line between trying to play an up-tempo game and running yourself into the ground, as Lamar Odom explained. "We have to be careful not to just get caught up in the speed of the game. We have to watch how we take of the basketball and watch what shots we choose to take. Coach gave us the green light, but that doesn't mean just go, go, go. We have to stay true to ourselves. Don't forget our triangle and still try to work it inside some." I asked Lamar if an increased pace equals an increased responsibility. His response was immediate. "Yeah, it is. Damn right. Hell yeah, it is. And it's not about making or missing shots, either. When you create good offense, make or miss, the energy translates to the defensive end."
Any attempt (or lack thereof) to guard the three point line: Matt Bonner: 3-7. Manu Ginobli: 2-4. Bruce Bowen: 6 for flippin' 6! The man ended up outscoring Kobe on his connected triples alone. The Lakers' tendency to collapse on any penetration (particularly by Parker) and leave the outside shooters all by their lonesome absolutely did them in. It led to It led to the Spurs shooting 48% from downtown. It led to 29 assists (9 from Eva's husband). And it undoubtedly led to the Lakers jacking some treys of their own, which was a problem because...
... The Lakers couldn't hit a three to save their lives. 2-16 from downtown. Kobe in particular was cold, going 0-5. Between that and his unusually low amount of trips to the line (can't take much fewer than zero), Kobe's offensive output ended up on the quiet side, despite him taking a reasonable amount of shots (19).
The turnovers: Remember "19," the smash single oddity from one-hit wonder Paul Hardcastle about the horrors of Vietnam? Well, that number matched the Lakers' turnover tally, which created more than a few horrors for them. 15 alone came during the first half, which accounted for 18 San Antonio points during the opening 24 minutes. The Lakers did a considerably better job controlling the ball in the second half, only coughing up a quartet. But the game was already a catch up affair by then. "They just knocked down a bunch of threes and we had too many turnovers," explained Kobe. "That led to them having a huge third quarter and we never recovered."
Lamar Odom's right pinkie: At some point during the first quarter (he's not quite sure when it happened), LO jammed his smallest digit, tearing the tendon. While certainly a pain Lamar for (literally and figuratively), the treatment is pretty simple. No surgery will be involved, just splinting it for practice and taping to his ring finger during games. "It's not going to change anything," assured Vitti. Well, aside from the finger hanging down a bit for the rest of Lamar's life. But aside from that, nothing's changed. Maybe Vitti meant nothing's changed for himself, since he'll probably be okay. Lamar, however, was in pain just putting on his blazer. "You're gonna cry in front of the press," joked Vitti after Odom let out a wince while trying on splints. Between this and his pregame noggin bump, I imagine Lamar will be more than happy to jet the hell outta the Alamo.
Turning Point
The last 4:44 of the second quarter. In just a sparse amount of time, the Spurs bumped a one point lead up to a not-so-sweet sixteen, capitalizing on three Laker turnovers and four San Antonio bombs. From there, the game was essentially out of L.A.'s hands.
Finally, I thought Derek Fisher's description of the way a ridiculously disciplined team like San Antonio beats teams. "I think like anything, it's almost like a spiderweb. They spin the web and just kind of wait for you to get stuck."
Safe to say, Peter Parker had his way with the Lakers this evening.
-AK
Sorry to get back to this summer's topic - but lets look at a few things regarding this totally top heavy western conference and the Lakers place in it. Are the Lakers even a playoff team?
Just looking at the facts, I have my doubts.
Although the Lakers have shown some decent cohesion and occasional balance, their impressive wins came against teams playing their first back to back of the seasons- and they've lost the other games they were supposed to lose....
the teams that are better than the Lakers in the West are (not exact order):
San Antonio
Dallas
Phoenix
Denver
Utah
New Orleans
Houston
That's seven.....which realistically leaves us with one spot left...Now we're not considering possilbe injuries and other trades, etc....but let's put everyone on equal level, so the Lakers have as much of a chance of an injury as any other team.
The teams I think the Lakers will battle are Portland, Memphis and possibly the Clippers for that last spot.
Portland is a very deep team, despite the loss of their rookie Oden....They don't have Kobe, but they're deep and balanced and big, with Roy and Aldrige and Webster leading they way.
And Memphis will be good, Rudy Gay has been terrific, and Gasol is looking stronger, along with Miller, Lowry, Stoudamire healthy again...even Milick...rember, this was a 50 win team two years ago.
And the Clippers are probably a little lower on the latter here, but if they can hover around .500 or just under it until Brand comes back, they can win 42-45 games...
Frankly, I'm not sure I like the Lakers that much better than Portland or Memphis, they're better than a Brand-less Clippers, but let's hope the Clippers don't finagle a respectable season until he comes back....
Soo.....We'll see, but it seems like the season will literally be a very tight race for the 8th spot, it sems like that'll be their only chance...
Posted by: 10milliondollarzen | November 13, 2007 at 10:14 PM
The Lakers haven't fixed the problems from last season yet.
Poor perimeter defense (Fisher is mediocre, Farmar is young, Walton is poor-mediocre, Evans is inconsistent, Lamar has problems with quicker small forwards)
Very inconsistent outside shooting, which is why they shouldn't be relying on it as much as they do.
Turnovers.
Rebounding seems to be better, Bynum is definitely getting better. Mihm is still rusty, hard to tell if he will get back to what he was. Kwame is the same. Kobe is playing better all-around. Turiaf is still inexperienced, but is improving. Lamar often doesn't fit in with the offense or with the other players. Hard to tell which some times.
This is almost certainly a learning year, and the games need to be looked at in that context. Hopefully Kobe keeps playing like this, the young players keep improving, and the team looks to improve at either PF or PG via a mid-season trade. (Probably can't improve at both spots, although it would be possible if both Lamar and Kwame were used in trades. Everyone else either has too long a contract, or a salary that is too small to be very useful.)
Posted by: exhelodrvr | November 13, 2007 at 10:23 PM
Oh my God....I am so angry right now. For the less than handful of you who read my responses to these blogs know that I am all Lakers, all time...Right now however, I am feeling so angry it hurts!
Why Why Why Why, can't the Lakers get it....make Tony Parker beat them, DO NO COLLAPSE on him because good PGs kick it out, especially a team like the Spurs.
The second and certainly the thing that hurts me most is Andrew Bynum. Why in God's name did they not get him involved....through three quarters Bynum had only two or three touches....I counted them! My God I have never been so hurt watching a game. The only time Bynum got the ball was when he got a rebound or a block! Anyone here to disagree with me that Drew didn't look good out there would be a fool...the few times I was mad and I can't blame him was when he went to play help defense...I knew Fisher wouldn't fare well against Parker because that was the start of the Laker's true playoff demise when the Spurs eliminated them preventing them from going for their fourth straight (hence why they got Malone and Payton the next season)....he cannot play the screen roll and recover in time to a much faster Tony parker...noticed how the complexion of the game changed once Jordan Farmer (who I think may be closer to being a legitimate impact than I first estimated) entered the game, watch it, this kid still has an uspide he's just starting to tap...good stuff on Duncan by the way. Another thing that gave me hope but angered me was when Bynum first got in the game, they (lakers) went to him and Duncan picked up a quick foul, followed by that other Spurs player down in the block. The Lakers failed to show the concept of common sense right then and there by not capitalizing on the two quick fouls by feeding Bynum....poor kid, must be frustrating.
And to all of you Kobe Haters (mind you the only gripe I have on Kobe was that he took too many threes in the end) THAT is what happens when Kobe gets this 'TEAM' invovled....he tried to not play KOBE-BALL as some of you call it and get everyone invovled....and as for Lamar Odom, I will resurrect my battle cry; TRADE HIM! He had countless mismatches and failed to instigate the one-two punch that Kobe needed, and what did he do? resort to the same old passiveness and decided to be agression when the game was over! It was a mistake to start Fisher over Farmer, and where is the taller/faster Javaris, yes he's a rookie but if you're gonna try some of the crap Phil did tonight, might as well toss the hungry rookie out there and let him get a taste.
Honest to the Father above, right now If I were to see Phil Jackson I would send the butt stock of my M-16 into his brand new hips so he can feel the kind of pain that I am feeling. I am so hurt by this! Get Bynum invovled! The key to the Laker's sucess this season depends on that 7ft 1 20-year old kid, and if I turn out to be wrong at season's end I will never post here, and I will take my black purple and gold, powder blue and white, purple white and gold along with the Laker's home jersey to salvation army and never watch basketball again because I wouldn't know the slightest thing about it. I've never been more certain....the Laker's success this season will go through Bynum, and I say we dump Lamar Odom in a trade now...kiss and make up with the Suns for Marion...just get rid of him! His recent return from injury is no excuse, especially if he had a game of mismatches. Phil Jackson must be high on what Jeanie is giving him to somehow think he could get more out of Mihm and Kwame by starting them over Bynum. If Phil and the Lakers don't want to use Bynum...fine send him over to us Army guys...I'd definitely take him in my squad...we'd know how to use him even for a a lot less money than he's making right now. This is the kid's year...give him the reigns to the middle NOW!
I see you guys start up various bandwagpn...someone needs to start the START BYNUM Bandwagon (if thats not already done), and another TRADE LO Bandwagon...
Posted by: Rhon Salmon | November 13, 2007 at 10:24 PM
The game was U-G-L-Y if they don't regroup and come to play against Houston..well it will be a L..and Detroit on Friday? Even worse!
Posted by: drew | November 13, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Look up the word turnover in the dictionary and you find a team photo of the Lakers... Poor shooting didn't help either.
But you can see some positives. It all depends on how much patience you have to watch this team grow. Farmar and Turiaf are looking pretty good this year. Though Jordan still needs to practice shooting a ton of jump shots every day(along with Luke). And Jackson should make the whole team shoot free throws until their arms fall off...
Anyone who doesn't think Bynum isn't going to be a very good to great player in this league is nuts! This kid will be as good as he wants to be and he sure looks like he is motivated right now (thanks, Kobe!)
Worst case scenario he stays a 12-14 points 10 rebounds guy who gets better defensively. Best case, he someday has the same impact on a game as the guy who we tried to trade him for, Kevin Garnett.
It could happen folks.
And what's up with Maurice Evans? He can't shoot so where's the defense? If he wants playing time he better step it up soon or he'll be the one on the inactive list often.
Posted by: Andy B | November 13, 2007 at 10:54 PM
Number 1 Issue: Mihm has to be the odd man out of the rotation. He is WAY too soft. Brown looks like Brown on offense, but he gives the Lakers toughness and defense. Bynum is a double double machine and shot changing defense.
Number 2 Issue: Wait. There is none. I seriously think the Lakers are fine. Mihm is just a bad influence on the team. His bad body language.
Posted by: Tom | November 13, 2007 at 10:56 PM
Actually one more thing. It's good to involve Brown in the offense, but try not to feed him the ball in the post.... Pass it to him when its for a dunk..I'm still not so sure about layups for him either....
Farmar is balling! One thing Kuphack did right. Hmm He signed Vujacic to a one year extension and Cook to a three year extension. Both DNPed tonight. I like Vujacic but he complains on EVERY single call and he's like a revolving door, any player just drives past him.
Posted by: Tom | November 13, 2007 at 11:03 PM
how the hell did kwame ever score 30 pts in one game...he makes me cringe on offense
Posted by: mcfly | November 13, 2007 at 11:20 PM
We lost because our defense collapse when Parker drives to the hoop. This Guy do this all along but still we have no answer on how we defend this kind of penetration while at the same time keeping an eye on their shooters. Bowen kills us with his 6/6 in three point line. Spurs killed us in the outside shooting. Since Kobe is more focus in defense and plays team game, why PJ not let him defend Parker? Kobe don't needs much help defending Parker (as what he did with Iverson last time). He can stays with Parker when he drives, hence our guys can stay with their shooters.
What you think AK?
Posted by: trio | November 13, 2007 at 11:26 PM
When the Lakers lose, I go out into the night and get crazy.
Posted by: ajax | November 13, 2007 at 11:34 PM
This is my first time reading the comments, and it is now my last. Seriously... commenters are saying to NOT collapse on TP? Do any of you watch basketball or do you just skim through it (the highlights)? The guy can burn almost everybody in the NBA and if you don't collapse, he'll easily put up 30+ on you.
Surprise, the Spurs are a three-headed monster, which is why they've won 3 championships in the last 5 years. Why is it that even though the collective NBA coaching experience of all the commenters on this site is 0 games, everyone thinks they have some sort of better insight or knowledge than Phil Jackson.
Posted by: Andrew | November 13, 2007 at 11:55 PM
hopefully, that's one that need not be repeated. they had the spurs in hand but continued to turn the ball over. play the offense and score. get sloppy and lose.
well that's over. on to the next.
Posted by: man | November 14, 2007 at 12:18 AM
I have asked this question at least 10 times without an naswer. Who are these lockdown defending point guards that are so much better at defending a Parker than Fish? No one can run with him through 3 screens and keep him out of the paint.
The best thing any of them can do is go back at him on defense. Chris Paul would go back at Parker and maybe nullify his points but that's not the Lakers game. Fish is smart, anticipating but not a speed demon and never was but even if he was, he couldn't keep Parker from going where he wanted to go.
The team is working Lamar back into the lineup, but he's the guy that has to step into the limelight or take a pay cut.
Posted by: Vman | November 14, 2007 at 12:20 AM
Aloha
I dont know about everyone else but it really isnt time yet to push the panic button. I keep reading and hearing how we will be lucky to get an 8th seed but I think its much to early to draw any conclusions. Lets take a look at the west.
1. San Antonio are still the class of the league. But lets not forget that we played them straight up for all but 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter and we handled Duncan.
2. The Suns are still number 2 but dangerously thin along the front line. One injury there and its all over. I cant figure out why they let Thomas go for cap space. How much is a ring worth?
3. The rockets look like the real deal but I am still not sold on their PG and PF slots. Can Yao and T-Mack stay healthy for a full year?
4. Dallas. Somehow they dont scare me. Maybe they should but there is something lacking with that team. Its hard to put a finger on it.
After that I really think its wide open. Utah, Denver, New Orlean etc, not that scary.
What we need to do.
Risk taking.
We changed both the offense and defensive schemes for the season and it is clear that we are still struggling to intergrate these changes. On offense we are not playing within ourselves. We are trying to MAKE too many things happen. Like Phil said tonight, we caused most of our own turnovers. We just need to settle down and let the oppurtunities come to us and not force things.
On defense again to many double teams on the point. We beat the Suns and Utah because we dared Nash and Williams to beat us. We can not allow shooters to camp out and wait for the drive and Kick. We really need to gamble less and stay at home on our defensive assignments more.
Andrew Bynum. I have been OK up to now with Andrew coming in off the bench but I think its time to start him. Kwame does not understand that defensive rebounding is part of defense. There were six offensive rebounds leading to 13 points in the last six minutes of the 2nd quarter. Andrew grabs most of those. Plus he blocks shots and alters alot. He can be there when the PG penetrates and maybe allow the other guys to stay home with the shooters. He also has held his ground against guys like Duncan and Boozer.
We also need to feed the post more. Andrew demands attention that helps keep guys off of Kobe and Lamar. Kwame doesnt even demand that anyone guards him.
Luke Walton
Its obvious that Luke is pressing. While he has said all of the right things about coming off the bench, it has affected him. He needs to relax and he will be fine.
Ronny. I am not sure if Phil is limiting his minutes because of health concerns or what. I do know that he brings alot to this team. He had a tough night with turn overs but I would like to see him for at least 26-27 minutes if not 30 a game.
Vlade. Maybe we should be looking to get him some more minutes. Even though he had a rough shooting night he was doing other things to try and contribute. Last year when his shot didnt fall he disapeared, not this year.
Jordon. While I want Fish to continue to start I think Jordon should play as many minutes as Fish. He has really taken a big step and is only going to get better.
MO not sure if its health but he just isnt the same player. We need Defense from him but so far all we have gotten is missed shots.
Lamar. This is still basically his training camp. He will round into shape. No worries there.
Kobe. He is playing at an MVP leval right now. If he can sustain the D and the boards he could win his 1st MVP.
The schedule. We all knew that it was going to be brutal early especially with Lamar missing the 1st 4. But Like 2 years ago we have a fairly favorable schedule in the 2nd half. Tread water, keep it together and make a stretch run.
If we can adjust in some of these areas we will be in the thick of things. There have been enough positives so far for me to believe that most of the above can be corrected. Hey we may even lose to the Rockets and go 3 and 4 but we will beat Detroit and get it rolling again.
MH
Posted by: michael h | November 14, 2007 at 12:38 AM
always and always the same problem that keep running and haunting the lakers...they really lack defense and nobody steps in the game except for kobe...kobe is all human...he wouldn't have all night on the scoring spree...and that's where kupcake and FO failed so greatly...even jordan in his prime cant win with this line up...
Posted by: jonjay | November 14, 2007 at 01:49 AM
After watching the Lakers Spurs game I'd just like to give a few points on the state of the Lakers.
First of all I dont like the bashing Phil gets from some bloggers, look at the roster its not like where a 60 win team that should be a top two seed in the Western Conference.
My second point is Lamar has to shoot the rock, SHOOT LAMAR SHOOT!!!!!!!!!
I know it has been only been 2 games but LAMAR BE AGRESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 38 minutes against Minnesota he took 10 shots and in 32 minutes against San Antonio he took 9 shots.
Lamar has to average somewhere in the region of 20-22 pts a nite, look at our next opponent Houston McGrady and Yao combine for 50-55 pts a nite and thats what the Lakers have 2 do with Kobe and Lamar.
I want the lakers to dominate the league again like all of us but we have a bright future, Farmar and Bynum, those 2 dunks of Farmar WOW, didnt think the boy had those hops, and hey Mike T Bynum is averaging a double double 10.3 points and 10.2 rebounds in exactly half a game 24 mins per nite and he has just turned 20, hey Mike T when has ur boy Kwame averaged a double double THATS RITE HE NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL HAS HE HAS NO HEART. With our young players I want Javaris to play not be inactive, he should play instead of Sasha and evans, Javaris is our future.
My final point is Kobe should look at other players around the league. Look at Boston, between them KG Paul Pierce and Ray Allen I think they have each made the conference finals once and all 3 of them have experienced alot of losing in their careers but they never went on air asking to be traded. Also look at Brett Favre of the Packers everyone thought he would end his hall of fame career by losing by look at him now he has an excellent chance to make another superbowl as the packers and cowboys are the class of the nfc.
Kobe just have faith in the young talent, Bynum will be a star averaging a double double in half a game and only turned 20.
One thing that really annoys me is signing walton and vlad to 30 million contract each so where paying two bench guys 60 million, they have 2 try and trade one of them, maybe Kwame Vlade plus first rounder for Ron Artest.
Posted by: Justin | November 14, 2007 at 02:45 AM
Well, it could be a inter of madness for you, ajax.
That defense was terrible. Undisciplined. And if Kwame can't play any better than that, he should get healthy, if that's what is bothering him.
Posted by: Michael A | November 14, 2007 at 04:38 AM
Mike H.
You wrote: After that I really think its wide open. Utah, Denver, New Orlean etc, not that scary.
I think you're wrong on this. Utah & Denver are teams to be very concerned
about. Good coaches. Great players. Playoff experience.
Justin,
You wrote: My final point is Kobe should look at other players around the league. Look at Boston, between them KG Paul Pierce and Ray Allen I think they have each made the conference finals once and all 3 of them have experienced alot of losing in their careers but they never went on air asking to be traded. Also look at Brett Favre of the Packers everyone thought he would end his hall of fame career by losing by look at him now he has an excellent chance to make another superbowl as the packers and cowboys are the class of the nfc.
My reponse. I think you mis-understand the situation. Kobe asked for a trade because he didn't want to go thru a re-building process. He was lied to by the Lakers FO. The Packers never lied to Brent, The sonics never lied to Ray Allen & the Celtics never lied to Paul Pierce to get any of them
to resign. You'll notice that KG, Ray & Pierce don't have no-trade clauses in their contracts. Part of that reason is because they didn't meet the criteria. Kobe did. He was sold a pack of lies by the Lakers FO and then he was screwed over. To put it another way: if you were trying to win a championship *TODAY* would you rather have Andrew Bynum or J-Kidd?
[ My money is on the old guy who's never lost internationally and avg a triple double last year in the playoffs. ]
Posted by: hobbitmage | November 14, 2007 at 06:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------
WED. NOVEMBER 14 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------
I MAMBA24 PROMISE NEVER TO MAKE ANOTHER
LAKER WIN PREDICTION, TO KEEP MY BIG MOUTH
CLOSED AND STICK WITH WHAT I KNOW, WHICH
IS NOTHING. MEA CULPA
-------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 14, 2007 at 06:46 AM
There will be another Texas hold'em tonite. Currently Lakers are back to .500, if they win tonite then back to 4-3. It is a "must win" to even the score with the Rockets.
Last night, we were competitive only for one quarter that prompted James to remark that that game has to be played for 4 quarters. The big guns were clanking and committing so many turnovers while the rank and file roster were also dragging the team down. Based on my point of view the weakest links are: Mihm, Walton and Kwame. Without their contributions when LO, Odom and Kobe are on a down day, we lose. Farmar was just alright with his dunks but still someone has to stop the PG on the other side or Farmar's efforts are nothing. The ball couldn't reach Bynum because predictably, the interior pass has been sealed and so many t/o on that alone. How about combining the two tall men either Bynum & Kwame or Bynum &Mihm, we need this against the Rockets.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | November 14, 2007 at 07:05 AM
Mike T,
In case you missed it, there's a new web tribute with praise, photos, and video of your gal, Jackie Johnson.
http://laist.com/2007/11/12/jackie_johnson.php
Hope this will take your mind off of PJ, Kwame, and Luke for at least two minutes.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | November 14, 2007 at 07:14 AM
Justin,
Interesting point about Kobe embracing young talent. There's a salient line from a Ben Folds song that goes something like, " 'Whiz man' never fit you like the 'whiz kid' did..."
I think Kobe feels awkward around fledging talent, rather the way many of us have felt in our first experiences leading younger co-workers. You can't quite hang and BS with them; you can't quite order them around like peons; you shouldn't try to relate to them on specific experiences, but you can't be haughty either; you want them to derive confidence from their yet meagre accomplishments, but you want to make it clear that you have been there, done that and absorbed the lesson which is why you are presently in charge. Some people navigate this transition easily, others are unsure of themselves. Kobe's in the latter category.
I think it's a particular form of narcissism: I think Kobe's not comfortable being in the room when the topic is anyone else's precociousness. He is too in love with being the fresh young talent himself. I also think this is something he knows and is improving upon. I hope his determination gets the better of his tendencies on this one.
Posted by: The D | November 14, 2007 at 07:28 AM
Here's a question I have. I want to know when Odom injured his finger. I know it was in the 1st quarter. Now was it in the first 6 minutes of the game, while he was at the 3 spot? Or was it when he was moved to the 4 spot after the 6 minute mark?
Did the injury come playing against Michael Finely? Or did the injury come playing against Elson?
Against the 6'7 Finley? Or against the 7'0 Elson?
When PJ replaced Turiaf and Mihm with Bynum and Walton Popovich sent Elson in for Oberto. At that time the 6'6 Ginobili was already in the game for Finely.
The first thing that happened when Odom was moved to the 4 spot to guard Elson was Odom blocking Elson's shot.
Again, at what point did Odom injure his finger?
Either way...how does a guy go away from playing against a player who is 6'7 in Finely and a 6'6 Ginobili to playing a 7'0 Elson? And just after 6 minutes after the game had started.
There was no way Odom was even allowed to get into a rhythm to exploit his 6'10 body over the 6'7 and 6'6 players. No PJ has to bring in Walton and move the 6'10 body to guard and be guarded by a 7 footer. A 7 footer who's game is about defense at best. Again, all withing the first 6 minutes of the game.
How in the hell does that happen? And to add insult to injury...I'm wondering when Odom injured his finger. Again, I know it was in the first quarter. From what I understand Odom was taken out in the first quarter with 2:13 remaining in the 1st quarter. I heard a report that it was to get his finger taped up.
I think it was somewhere between the 6 minute mark and the 2:13 mark because if it had happened earlier Odom was have been pulled from the game earlier to get his finger taped.
Having Odom play defense in the post against 7 footers as opposed to going against 6'6 and 6'7 players is just a mistake.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | November 14, 2007 at 07:31 AM
Funny, how come the LA press never reports on this Kobe Bryant, i found this on the Fort Worth Star Telegram of all papers. It's allways Kobe pouts, Kobe does not like this or that ......
Former Maverick Kobe Bryant
Came down to San Antonio to interview Kobe Bryant and get a story for the Mavericks-Spurs game on Thursday in AAC and what a great interview several of us had with Bryant.
He was funny throughout, joking about rumors of where he was going to be traded. At one point, when he was asked about rumors that he was going to come to Dallas, he said: "I think they've got me playing on Mars, too."
Mark Cuban admitted the Mavericks inquired about Bryant. Who wouldn't? But Cuban said Dirk Nowitzki was untouchable and the Lakers responded that so was Bryant.
The idea that Dallas could get Bryant without trading Dirk was ludicrous. Only one way that happens and that's if Bryant lays down on the job -- if he purposely dogs it on the court. And one thing about Bryant -- he's much too proud to do that and too concerned about his legacy.
Let me put it this way. If I'm the Mavericks, I tell the Lakers, "You can have every player on our team except Dirk. You can have Howard, Harris, Terry, Stackhouse -- everybody except Dirk -- and we'll take Bryant and whatever you want to throw in to make it work under the cap."
And you know what? Unless, again, Kobe had quit on the team, the Lakers would never do it.
The rumors of Bryant being traded to Chicago were stronger and there were also rumors about a Kobe-Gilbert Arenas deal in Washington. So with Kobe joking about everything, someone asked him:
“Did you enjoy your career more as a Maverick, a Bull or a Wizard.”
“As a Celtic,” Bryant said, and laughed . “Hawk maybe. Naw, it’s crazy. It gets to a point where you laugh about it.”
-- Jan Hubbard
Posted by: The Troll | November 14, 2007 at 07:34 AM
Phil is no dummy!
He is clearly on Kobe's side and it is painfully evident. He is trying to showcase the Lakers lack of talent on purpose.
What makes me laugh is how people on this blog think that Phil is senile and does not know how to coach. What a joke.
After coaching some great players with high basketball intelligence, he is stuck with this depleted roster. I don't think any other coach would do a better job. And it is clear no other coaches want any of the players on this roster. (Kobe, Bynum, Fish, Turiaf excluded)
Look at Riley, after 2 weeks, he has had enough of Smush.
Derek Fisher and Robert Horry played well under other coaches because of their desire, skill and basketball iq. These Lakers just do not have any of those traits.
By playing Kwame, Mihm and Walton big minutes, he is exposing the blunders that Mitch has made.
I like Luke, in small doses, but he is not worth 30 million. He loves LA, he would have signed a five year deal for half that. Who else would have paid him that money???
Mihm is a decent back up center at best. No he doesn't block alot of shots and he is not an enforcer but he is not terrible. Injuries have plagued him as well.
Kwame sucks. Period. He has absolutely no basketball skills. He is not aggressive and lacks confidence. Its not personal, its just a fact. He does not have the makeup or maturity to be a big time player in this league. He does not bring it night in and night out. Plus he is often injured.
I think, and not that it matters, that Bynum should play 35 minutes a game.
If he can't handle it and gets tired, oh well. He can learn to play himself into shape by getting extended minutes. Once he gets stronger and can play big minutes, he is going to be a beast. He is our best option, hands down.
After Sunday, maybe even before, the Kobe talks will start up again...Kobe is playing hard and doing exactly what is asked of him. He is sharing the ball, and playing tremendous defense. He is plaing the right way and passing to open teammates that either can't catch, turn the ball over, or make a shot.
Posted by: MJCMAN32 | November 14, 2007 at 07:36 AM
Rhon... I can't believe that you're the only blogger ranting about Bynum. Does Phil still believe that he can make a player out of Kwame? Bynum has put in a lot of work, looks great, and needs to be in there. Until then we're going to get served time and time again:
RECIPE FOR BEATING THE LAKERS
Ingredients:
Kwame Brown at center
Luke Walton as primary second scoring option
Derek Fisher as perimeter defensive savior
Method:
If Kobe is looking to score, beat him up.
If Kobe is distributing, join Luke Walton fan club.
Drive and dish, if available.
In halfcourt sets, set high screens and move ball until your best 3 pt. shooter is wide open. 2 or 3 screens/passes should do it.
Repeat until Kobe is traded.
Serves Laker fans everywhere.
Posted by: East Nyboer | November 14, 2007 at 07:36 AM
Just heard on the radio here in Chicago that Kobe is buying Jordan's old house here in Chicago
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61827
Posted by: Chi-Town Laker | November 14, 2007 at 07:50 AM
Hey, at least we're not Miami Heat fans. Coach Pat Riley is so miffed at his team's terrible play, he's threatening to suit up, himself!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271113030
Seriously, as disappointing as was Tuesday night's game against the Spurs, it is important to risk the temptation (as strong as it may be) to declare that the sky is falling.
What we're seeing is the performance of a team that simply has not had enough time playing together. It was only Lamar's second game back.He will be inconsistent until he really gets in the flow. It was only Walton's second game playing with the 2nd unit. Mihm, Kwame, and Mo Evans are still fighting their way back from injury. It's not likely that the Lakers will start to hit their stride until nearly Christmas.
This is also a roster that must overcome its inherent limitations. Either Kwame or Mihm has to play well enough consistently to firm up the starting center position. Neither will ever be Shaq, but at least one of them has to become dependable.
The 2nd unit simply has to settle in. Walton has not figured out how to fit in here, and that's an issue. Also, either Kobe or Lamar has to be on the floor when the "bench mob" is in for there to be a dependable scoring option. Otherwise, Andrew will never be open and Farmar won't be able to feed him the ball, as was the case for much of Tuesday night.
Mo Evans is not the backup shooting guard the Lakers need, either. It is time to recognize that giving Mo regular minutes is just a bad investment.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Let J-Crit log the minutes when Kobe is on the bench, especially this early in the season when the team is still finding its identity. He's got a great stroke and won't be much more of a defensive liability than Evans.
I'd also let Cobe Karl suit up as often as possible, and let him play the garbage minutes to gain more NBA experience. He's got poise and tenacity that will serve the Lakers well as the team matures.
And of course keep Brian Cook glued to the bench until hell freezes over.
That's my take. Let's split the Texas two-step with a win over Houston tonight. Go, Lakers!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | November 14, 2007 at 08:02 AM
We lost to the World Champions, they won it just a couple of months ago.
We played the game pretty well. Take away the unforced turnovers, and we would have been right there. We played as a team.
The sky is not falling. If we keep building and playing as a team, we'll be pretty good at the end of the year. That's the goal.
I think Bynum should stay in the role he's in right now. He and Farmar have very good chemistry on that second unit. I'm very impressed with both of them. Just a little more seasoning, and they'll be legitimate starters in the NBA. Those were very good draft selections.
I like the way Kobe is playing. He's playing defense with reckless abandon, and staying within the offense, and the team is benefitting from it. I just hope Kobe is consistent with this style of play so that his teammates can get used to it, and settle into roles.
One thing that concerns me about Kobe and his reckless abandon defense is the possibility for an injury. Seeing Kobe play these first couple games got me thinking about Adrian Petersen and how he worked the Chargers last week running with reckless abandon. On Sunday, Peterson got injured, no doubt, because he runs without any regard for his or his opponents body. Seeing Kobe fly through the air for those blocks is impressive, he's laying on the line out there. I just hope he doesn't get injured.
Posted by: Rocky | November 14, 2007 at 08:03 AM
Now here's my problem with how PJ is playing the centers.
First the defensive tone of the game is set by how the center is playing the game.
If the normal rotations are going to be used that would be anywhere from 8-10 minutes to start the game for the starting center. That way the guys get warmed up and they can get a good read of what the opponents are doing. You know...who might be moving slow or whatever. And then they can adjust to what the opponent is doing.
Playing a starting center for 6 minutes is like hitting the breaks of a car just as it's starting to pick up speed. Everyone in the car it thrown as the car comes to a stop. It's like giving the defense a whip lash jolt or shock. It takes a little time to recover.
Then you put in another center who plays 12 straight minutes. Then they have to reevaluate the matchups on the fly and adjust. Now the car is picking up speed and going at an even pace. Then all of a sudden you slam the breaks again. You put in yet another center for the last 6 minutes of the 1st half.
First Mihm is yanked with the score 9-8 Spurs at the 6 minute mark of the first quarter.. Then Bynum is played for 12 minutes and the score is 33-30 when he is yanked. Then Brown is put into the game and the Spurs pull away.
You have one rhythm with Mihm. Another with Bynum. And yet another with Brown. And all the while the Spurs are going at their usual pace.
The Spurs pace is set at the start of the game and is not disrupted for the whole game.
What PJ did was let that pace set the rhythm of the game. That's fine if we meet them with our own consistent rhythm to see who'll win out. You get a feel for that in the first 8-10 minutes. If were not getting killed in the amount of time...you stick with it until it's obvious that it isn't working.
The rhythm of a game is like a powerful current in a river. You don't let someone set the pace of the game and expect someone to come into the game with 6 minutes left in the half and say: Reverse the current of the water. It's too late for all that.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | November 14, 2007 at 08:09 AM
Patience people. It is just one game. The Lakers just got spanked by the best team in the league – oh well! I think the team will settle down with the turnovers as the rotations get set and the players get back in synch. My prediction is, that barring a rash of injuries like they suffered last year, the start slower and finish stronger. I see more effort and intensity than I saw last year. Sure it is misdirected at times, but there seems to be more of a fire from top to bottom than anything I saw in the second half of last season. You also have to keep in mind that the offense has been tweaked from last year, and the defensive scheme is different as well. Give them some time. We are only a few games into a long season, after about 20-25 games see where the Lakers are at and then we will have a better idea of how good the Lakers really are.
I am optimistic about this team. The improvement from Bynum and Farmar in particular bode well. And Vlad should be able to help more as the season goes on. He is not going to score big in every game but I expect more consistent contributions from him. I think both Mihm and Kwame are a concern - Mihm was a decent back up center before the injuries - I am not that sure he is going to come back, but he needs more time to show what he has left in the tank. Kwame – well his defense may be OK but on offense the guys is a first class basket case! Luke is Luke and he is what he is, a good facilitator but a weak link on the defensive end. Lamar needs to step it up and get used to playing at the 3 again. Kobe needs to keep playing tough on the defensive end and then clean up the turnovers. I honestly think that this team will climb the ranks as the season goes on to become one of the better teams in the league – a top 10 team if we don’t lose any of the top 8 for extended periods of time.
Eagleboy
Posted by: Eagleboy | November 14, 2007 at 08:14 AM
Shoot, by the time Kwame Brown came into the game the Spurs' current was already steady and strong. By the time Brown came into the game the Lakers were trying to establish a 3rd current.
A 3rd current at the 6 minute mark of the 2nd quarter? That's like having a poweful ocean current going against a current in stream trying to find its way to the ocean.
The motion of the ocean is already established at the 6 minute mark of the 2nd quarter. At that point with the Lakers trying to get a 3rd current established, well, the only thing that's going to happen in circumstances like that is this: The current of the ocean is just going to take us under. It's just to powerful at that point for us to be trying something new at the 6 minute mark of the 2nd quarter.
Can you believe that PJ would try something like that against the World Champions of Basketball?
Mind-boggling!
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | November 14, 2007 at 08:22 AM
hate to even think it, let alone write it but...
we may just be looking at a .500 ball club.
lets see how our boys come out & respond tonite.
maybe they will finally step up & play like men.
Farmar posterizing Duncan (i think?) was a thing of beauty though...
Mighty Mouse can sure get up off the ground quick!!!
-Fowl Out
Posted by: Flagrant Fowl | November 14, 2007 at 08:25 AM
The problem wasn't closing in on Tony Parker. Everyone knows Parker can't be guarded one on one. The problem is recognizing which guys are supposed to be closing in on Parker. If you're guarding Bruce Bowen and he's standing in the corner you can't close in every time. Especially after he gets hot like last night. And you try not to close out too often if your man is Ginobili a well because he'll kill you from 3.
The other problem is not closing out on those shooters when they do catch the ball. Our defensive rotations were horrendous. This was the New Orleans game all over again.
Posted by: Xodus | November 14, 2007 at 08:32 AM
We can not put Kobe on Parker, after that we will have Fisher on Manu or Fisher on Bowen. How long do you think it'll takes for them to get hot shooting over 6.1 PG? What are we talking about? With exept Kobe we have SA better or much better in every single position, just pick your poison. We can not gurad one on one TP, we need several people to colapse and meantime they have shooters on perimeter waiting for this kick. As someone said, basketball very simple game. In order to defend we need people who would be able to recover much faster to cover perimeter shooter or we need super PG who can take one on one TP and constantly stay in front.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | November 14, 2007 at 08:34 AM
Not to mention the fact that I don't understand how PJ is using his centers. Chris Mihm shouln't be starting (especially when he doesn't feel confident enough to play him the rest of the game.) and Bynum needs to get a lot of time and a lot of touches in the post. He's been beastly.
Posted by: Xodus | November 14, 2007 at 08:34 AM
Give the Lakers a little time. Andrew Bynum is the real deal as is Farmer. The second unit continues to outplay the starters. If both units can start clicking, watch out. Maurice Evans and Kwame Brown should not be getting very many minutes. Sasha and Javaris need to get some time on the floor. The fact is the lakers need to play better defense and stop turning the ball over and they'll make the playoffs as a seventh or eighth seed.
Posted by: bobby g | November 14, 2007 at 08:44 AM
I'M ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!!
Are you telling me that we got beat badly by the defending World Champs, on the road and the main reason was lack of stopping penetration by a quality PG, poor rotation to shooters beyond the arc, and an ungodly amount of turnovers on offense? Wow, I never would have thought that would happen to these Lakers. I'm speechless.
Los Angeles Lakers basketball, where mediocrity happens.
Posted by: Andrew Z | November 14, 2007 at 08:49 AM
How is this any better than "Kobe Ball"?
Also, can you believe the story was that Bruce Bowen "held" Kobe to 18 points? Really?
And is Tim Duncan really that good? You think if he and Kobe switched teams, that the Lakers would EVER win a game if Duncan scored 5 points on 1 for a zillion shooting? Parker, Ginobili, and Bowen are HUGE for that team. Duncan gets way too much credit for the wins, just as Kobe gets way too much blame for Laker losses (the whole "make your teammates better" crap - Kobe could make Parker and Ginobili look just as good as they do now, if now better, if they were all teammates).
Posted by: Kobe's T | November 14, 2007 at 08:56 AM
PJ is trying to develop Bynum; at this point that is best served by not starting him. He comes in mid-late first quarter, when the opposing starting center is getting tired, or when he is playing against the other team's backup. Bynum is better than most backups in the league, and a fresh Bynum is better than most starters who are tired. That results in a matchup that is good for his confidence, as well as good for the team.
Kwame,with his complete lack of offense, would leave the second team very short in that regard.
As far as Mihm, PJ is still trying to get the rust off of Mihm, and determine what he will be capable of post-injury.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | November 14, 2007 at 09:02 AM
Andrew Z-
Los Angeles Lakers basketball, where mediocrity happens.
Please say that this is not the theme for a 4th cosecutive year!?!?
And, do you think opposing teams, feel the same way?
Posted by: MJCMAN32 | November 14, 2007 at 09:08 AM
How many three point shots are we going to let teams make on us before we get it? I would rather have Parker make his lay up then to see another three by Bowen.
Or even better, as the great Chic Hearn would suggest, let Parker make it to the paint and then have a big center FLOOR him. Remind him that he is in their area. After he gets floored a couple of tomes, he will have that on his mind and may not make the plays that he was making ALL NIGHT LONG.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrr.
janaya
A NEW BOAT TO JUMP ON: The FLOOR the small man in the paint boat"!!
Posted by: janaya | November 14, 2007 at 09:13 AM
I wonder why PJ does not implement more zone especially when the Lakers face excellent penetrating point guards that finish well (Paul, Nash, Parker)?
I think it would limit dribble penetration and wide open looks once the defense has been broken down.
This is my only criticism of PJ. He needs to adapt and play to his teams defensive strengths. Especially with Kwame and Bynum. It would make them less vulnerable against teams that run alot of high screen and rolls, PHX, SA, Utah etc.
I would rather have Parker taking 3's than having him break down the defense and kicking out to a wide open Bowen.
Posted by: MJCMAN32 | November 14, 2007 at 09:18 AM
Folks we lost to the world champs.... Not sugar coating it but that's where we want to be "CHAMPS" and its evident that we are not there yet. True Mhim, is a waste at center there is no need to put him on the floor unless its garbage time. Sorry but its also evident that Bynum and Farmar need to be placed into the starting line-up. Fish couldn't stop Parker then and can't now, and I'm not saying that farmar could but foot speed is a better weapon. PJ has to do better at playing the guys who are performing, not picking crazy spots for them to get minutes once things get out of hand. We don't have a team that can come back night in and night out, especially if Kobe is having a off-shooting night. One loss but we'll get it back tonight against Houston! laker 4 life (or until Kobe's gone) LOL!
Posted by: lakerfaze | November 14, 2007 at 09:28 AM
Same ole story...Lakers giving you just a glimmer of hope with their stellar play against the Suns and the Jazz only to go back to their ways. What a pitiful site to watch a team with such a storied franchise dig themselves a deeper grave and I still can't understand how the Buss family continues to charge their premo prices for tickets when the value of a ticket should be compared to the Milwaukee Bucks. If FO stays status quo, there is no fix for this team. You have some excitement around the play of Farmar and Bynum, but that will only take you so far and maybe deliver a couple more wins. Come playoff time, we're first round bound again. Now, I love the Lakers, just like all of you, but I'm also a realist too. Until the FO can make some splash by either trading Kobe finally or getting him so help, this team is going nowhere. Granted, I'm watching these games for the same reason you are...with Kobe on the team, anything can happen at any given night, but that entertainment value quickly goes down the drain when they lose more than they entertain. I've been reading this blog for quite some time and although I appreciate the quick updates from the Kam brothers, the amazing loyalty from MAMBA24, and the great insights from some of the other posts, I just think we can count this season out as another losing season. I look at Boston and I see what could have been, but now that faint reality has turned into a dream, more a nightmare for not only me, but for all Lakers fans. As you will, I will continue to watch the games because as much as I hate to watch this team go down, I hold on to the little hope I have in this team, hoping the Lakers will restructure their FO, Kobe will reconcile and realize he's where he should be, the Lakers make some key trades, and we have a chance to contend for the title. Give us that chance.
Posted by: Depressed Laker Fan (GK) | November 14, 2007 at 09:29 AM
Silver lining in last night's loss:
Having just watched Evil Timmy and the rest of his undead gang, I have now refilled my hump with hatred for the Spurs. That should get me through the rest of the work day.
Posted by: The D | November 14, 2007 at 09:30 AM
It's hard to know how to criticize this lakers team.......for the past 3 years now. this is the only team that you can criticize the players but NOT the COACH. Sorry, i've seen enough Laker games to know that Phil has done a very poor job with adjustments, especially when you already know the strengths of the opponent or whatever play there executing consistently during the game.
It's obvious we still have nooo go-to interior player , because if MIHM is still starting over Bynum..........First and foremost that's sad, because he couldn't come off the bench on any other team, and secondly it means Bynum is far from a low post offensive threat.
Posted by: Dion | November 14, 2007 at 09:30 AM
Does anyone think that Spurs have better talent than the Lakers? If you do, you're wrong.
Sure, Duncan is one of the best big man ever, but after him the pickings are pretty slim. Even Duncan is one of the least athletic centers/PF to make the all-time elite list. Parker and Ginobili are good/above average players for their positions, but take them off the Spurs and you'll see that just about every team in the NBA has a Parker and a Ginobili. Who else? Old man Bruce? 36 years old and he played like a 36 year-old his entire career. Look at his career stats:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3167/career;_ylt=AmIEF3WtDyrwKR3uzvt7H.qkvLYF
What would posters here say about Bruce if he was Lakers.
I don't think anyone on the Spurs is even worth an honorable mention beyond those four.
Now look at what the Lakers have. Kobe, Lamar, Bynum (who by the way is bigger, taller, quicker, more athletic and probably stronger than Duncan), Farmar (almost the same player Parker was his rookie year) Fisher, Radman (tall, strong, quick, athletic, great shooter).
If you bring in a scout from Pluto, who has never seen an NBA game and have him evaluate players from both teams individually, how many would he pick from the Spurs in his top 5 picks? Top 10?
Both top 5 and top 10 would be dominated by the Lakers.
So why are the Spurs Champs and Lakers chumps?
Posted by: HAB | November 14, 2007 at 09:44 AM
So now that T. Parker is a legitimate NBA star and this looks to be "his team" more and more, when do he and Duncan start feuding and sniping at each other in the media?
Oh wait......they're not Kobe and Shaq..........
Seriously though, Xodus is exactly right. Several times last night I watched (and re-watched in slo-mo thanks to DVR) Parker drive into the middle, get picked up by a big man, but then kick out to either Bowen, Ginobli, or Bonner who WERE WIDE OPEN!! And why were they wide open? Because whomever was guarding them (Walton, Odom, Bryant, or Vlad) had sagged off into the paint. Why? Several times our big men had the penetration covered and would have forced Parker into a very tough shot. Sure, he might have made them, but I'd rather get beat by Parker making circus shots all night than the rest of the team shooting uncontested 3's.
Nevertheless, I'm still not TOO worried. If we can come out of this tough stretch of the schedule around or above .500 (and healthy), we should be primed for a stretch run. And by then, our younger players should be playing even better and our team D had better be more cohesive.
Posted by: Jason F. | November 14, 2007 at 09:54 AM
HAB, Parker and Ginoblli would still be All-Stars independent of Duncan, maybe even more times because their stats would be even better.
The Spurs have more talent in their top three players than the Lakers have in their top three, but not because Duncan is any better than Kobe.
Posted by: Kobe's T | November 14, 2007 at 09:58 AM