Live chat!

"We'll be conducting our first Lakers Blog live chat"

Well what the heck do you call what we're already doing?

I thought it was a Lakers blog live chat.

Wes

Given the chaos currently experienced in the Lakerland Universe, everyone seems to have an opinion on who to blame: Kobe, Kupchak, Phil Jackson... My question is why don't people realize that the problem starts at the top? It's the Laker ownership team, namely the Buss Family, that are the dysfunctional element -- Jerry Buss busted for drunken driving in the desert... Jim Buss -- who is this guy and what does he do anyway?
Until the Buss family is made to be held accountable for the current mess the Laker Kingdom now faces, Laker fans are gonna continue to suffer. And really the only way to make these guys feel the brunt of Laker fans' anger is to stop buying the defective product they keep pushing on us, namely the defective product known as the present Laker squad.

wesjoenixon-

touche.

BK

BK,

Was that a good touche or a bad touche?

I WILL NOT touch. I don't use feminine hygiene products. What are you saying?

Wes

touche this!

hey wes, out of curiosity, how'd you end up in Indiana via LA? must be a high paying job...

BTW, UCI ain't so bad in baseball. the MBA program is pretty good too.

count down.... t- minus 7 mins.

KL says:
"hey wes, out of curiosity, how'd you end up in Indiana via LA? must be a high paying job..."

The answer is:

A) I hearn Indiana had a French Lick, and I hadn't had one in a while
B) My girlfriend is working on her PHD at Notre Dame
C) Who wouldn't want to live on the interstate between Detroit and Green Bay?
D) "Got two reasons why I cry away each lonely night,
The first ones named sweet anne marie, and shes my hearts delight.
The second one is prison, babe, the sheriffs on my trail,
And if he catches up with me, Ill spend my life in jail."
-Friend of the Devil
Jerry Garcia
E) I heard Monk and Nina were doing a show in Kokomo

If you guessed you were correct!

Momk and Nina, by the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-DGUPDBiqg

Wes

NBA training camps open in less than a month, but there is still one burning question left in this offseason: What will Kobe do?

Bryant still has not yet backed off his trade demand from the Lakers. During the recent FIBA Americas tournament (in which the 29-year-old star looked as lean and mean as ever, by the way), he artfully dodged all queries on the subject. While most assume he will show up in Hawaii with his L.A. teammates next month, nobody seems to know for certain.

It's safe to say the Lakers' big offseason moves (signing Derek Fisher and bringing back Luke Walton and Chris Mihm) haven't radically altered Bryant's opinion on the state of the roster. Meanwhile, the Kevin Garnett deal probably only made him feel more frustrated.

There is still a chance general manager Mitch Kupchak could pull off a trade that satisfies Bryant. Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal, the player most often mentioned as a possible Lakers target, remains available. Could a deal for O'Neal, involving Lamar Odom and/or 19-year-old center Andrew Bynum, still happen? Don't rule it out. As much as the Lakers might want to keep Bynum, he's far from a sure thing. Kupchak has to do something to win now or he faces the prospect of a very disgruntled Bryant showing up at camp.

How's this for a trade proposal: Kobe and Jordan Farmar for Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah and Chris Duhon? The Bulls would have a lineup of Kirk Hinrich, Kobe, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace. If Chicago could improve the bench a little, it would have a championship team in the next two years. The Lakers, meanwhile, would have an exciting young team that puts fans in the seats. They would have Javaris Crittenton or Duhon at the point, Gordon at the 2, Luke Walton or Nocioni at the 3, Lamar Odom and Noah at the 4 and Bynum at the 5.

I couldn't find this "Sports Chat" link.

Don't worry ajax. It's pointless anyway. Every post needs to be approved. You may as well stay on the blog. In fact the point to it, is for the L.A times to see EVERYONE who browses as well. While a nice feature, the blog is better.

wes,

thanks for nothing, you wisea$$. i vote for "B".

BTW, i think you're the Ventrioquist....

i remember you went ape shizzle on me for making the wisecrack "do you talk out of the SIDE of your mouth as well as your a$$"...

remember that?

Botsoy,

No offense, but we get raped in that deal with Chicago.

I have been in favor of trading Kobe since his rant and I still stick to that, but if we deal with Chicago we need to get Deng back or no deal. We're better off letting Kobe walk for cap space in two years than taking back a second-tier, under-sized SG and a bunch of role guys.

Two questions...where is the actual "live blog" and can I get a stream of the show while it's going on on my treo?

Faith, are you talking about the Now Live show? Or the live chat thing we did today?

Thanks.

BK

Our original problem after the 05-06 season are 1 and 4 Smush and Kwame! Now 1 was solved. 3 was never a problem, we just made it a problem when Lakers move Odom to 4 and signed Rad. We put back Odom at 3 and problem is solve. Bynum at 20 and Mihm is back, our 5 is alright.

We still need to address the starting 4.

Bynum/Mihm 5
starter/Tturiaf 4
Odom/Walton 3
Bryant 2
Fisher/Crit 1

Kwame and Cook needs to go. They are not the answer at 4.

Hey is there any way to see the results of the chat earlier? Like is there any way you can post a link with all the questions asked and the answers?

Our best option may be Kirilinko. We trade Kwame and Vlad and next years 1st roundr for him.

Whatever move we make, much depends on Kwame having the best 1/2 season of his career. A healthy first half by Lamar, Kwame, Chris and Walton will improve the trade value of all of these guys.

We come out like gang busters, have a first half like last year, no one gets hurt....BOOM...we trade for 2 quality vets to help Kobe.

KL, I plead the 5th on it all.

Wes

The live chat was weird ... I wanted to comment, but I felt like I would be just be rehashing what's already been said on the blog.

The best part though, was no KL. What a relief. That guy would be horrible to work with. Can you imagine? Just a repeat day after day of the same old, tired, wrong opinions.

That said, I hope to see Kobe in a Lakers uniform this year, if only because all the KCAL games will be in HD. Woo Hoo!

Now that Shawnee Williams is in Indiana's doghouse it's time for the Lakers to make the offer of Odom, Bynum, Farmar for JO and Shawnee Williams. This is the perfect time if Williams doesn't get suspended.

mike

Andrew Z,

I'd do that deal if we could get Ty Thomas instead of Joakim Noah. I'm a Florida guy and think Noah will end up being a very solid NBA big, he's just a taller, thinner version of Turiaf right now. I'd also like to get some of Chicago's first rounders, they'll be low, but you can never have too many first rounders.

I'd like the potential of this lineup two years from now plus whatever draft picks we pick up along the way (O.J. Mayo?)

Bynum, Mihm
LO, Ty Thomas
Nocioni, Walton
Gordon, Evans
Fisher, Crit, Farmar

We'd be horrendous this upcoming season, but that's always the result when you blow things up.

The problem with the live chat is that AK and BK are so biased in their point of view that they're answer are terrible. After reading to blog so long you already know what they're answers are going to be.

mike

kobe apologist (kobe's toilet)

"The best part though, was no KL."

just for that comment, i'm calling in...

wes (aka Ventriloquist)

"KL, I plead the 5th on it all."

i'm not as dumb as i look am i? on second thought, wait don't answer that.

I should apply to be a Blog Profiler.

Mike T,

"The problem with the live chat is that AK and BK are so biased in their point of view that they're answer are terrible. After reading to blog so long you already know what they're answers are going to be."

I'm pretty sure there's something ironic in that statment, but I just can't quite put my finger on it.

By the way, how did the haircut go?

AK

"The problem with the live chat is that AK and BK are so biased in their point of view that they're answer are terrible. After reading to blog so long you already know what they're answers are going to be."

The same could be said about the people asking the questions. You already know their biases so their questions are predictable.

lol AK.

Come on...Chris Mihm as a starter in any way, shape, or form is crazy. The guy is too soft to play effective defense.

mike

Mike-

Biased in our point of view? You'd certainly identify (haha). Technically, of course, we're biased by definition because we have a point of view.

How was that haircut? High and tight?

BK

By the way the hair cut came out OK. That mixed in with a few beers are the local bar. LOL! Hey, I think I have a buzz right now. Do you like the Beatles? LOL!

mike

AK,

"I'm pretty sure there's something ironic in that statment, but I just can't quite put my finger on it."

ironic or moronic?

aren't we all biased?

BTW, i noticed that there are two points which i've made that really gets you riled up. First is the the ability (or inability) to restructure player contracts uner the CBA and second is my post on Devean Geroge.

Why does my example using George grab your attention? Seems like you ignore everthing else. just curious.

Oops, I see you beat me to it.

BK

"Come on...Chris Mihm as a starter in any way, shape, or form is crazy. The guy is too soft to play effective defense."

Dude, Mihm is one of very few guys in the past 3 season who plays with heart. i'll take heart and desire over talent all things equal.

I think this might be a racial issue with Mihm...

I don't mind a answer as long as you break down the game to justify yoiur answer. So many people like to throw out stats as if there's a point in all that. But I'm here to tell you that they're are only two stats that tell the truth. Those stats are the differencial in the score in wins and wins and loses compared to that differencial. Those are the only two stats that tell you the truth.

mikje

Botsoy,

>>>How's this for a trade proposal: Kobe and Jordan Farmar for Ben Gordon, >>>Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah and Chris Duhon?

I read that one too and thought, "gee, can we throw in Critter and Bynum
as well to sweeten the deal even more for the Bulls?"

In case it's not obvious, I was being sarcastic. That's not a good deal for the
Lakers. I don't agree that the Lakers absolutely have to get Deng to make
it a reasonable trade, but I'd say that a minimally reasonable deal has
to include any two from Deng, Gordon, Wallace, and Hinrich. Beyond
that, it needs to include one or more of Tyrus Thomas, Nocioni, Noah,
or Sefolosha, and then it could include anyone else to match salaries.

And I think the Lakers will need to send 1 or 2 other players in addition
to Kobe, in order to balance the number of players in the trade, but
they should only be giving up Farmar if Hinrich is one of the pieces
coming back. If it's Deng, then Evans could be included. If it's Duhon
or Sefolosha, Vujacic could be included. If Thomas, maybe Turiaf is included. The extra players included should be lesser players
backfilling a vacated position -- the Lakers don't need to add any value
to Kobe to make it a good trade for Chicago.

About the only easy combination that works right now is

Wallace + Gordon + Thomas for Kobe.

That works as a straight up trade. It does leave Chicago's front line
depleted, so Turiaf could be included and it would still work. They'd
still need to find another front line player.

The situation of a deal is going to change a lot over the next few months.
If the Bulls re-sign Gordon or Deng before the end of the summer, they
become poison-pill deals right now and base year compensation deals
next year. If the deal waits until December 15, then players like Mihm
and Nocioni and Joe Smith could be thrown in the mix.

To be honest, I don't think the Lakers front office will even consider
trading Kobe until next summer at the earliest.

He may play with heart but that doesn't stop penetation or prevent him from picking up stupid fouls. Teams have a lay-up parade when Mihm is in the game and that has nothing to do with heart. It's purely physical ability.

mike

As for my haircut...my only concern is what Jackie Johnson might think. LOL! I haven't seen her smile in a while. Come on Jackie...I won't treat you bad.

mike

At least Mihm can catch the ball and make a lay-up.

Damn Kwame is hard to watch.

The Lakers are 16 games above 500 when Kwame starts. The Lakers are a break even team when Mihm starts. The Lakers are hard to watch when Mihm plays because they lose.

mike

By the way there's no freaken way that both Mihm and Walton are in the starting line-up. NO FREAKEN WAY!

mike

BK,

Today's chat's link.

And tomorrow's audio live lol.

Too bad I missed today's live chat (or rather, "Dear Abby---substitute host AK or BK" or were you guys more like, "Talk Sex with Sue Johansson----substitute host AK or BK haha, jk). That would have made questions which normally is a hit or miss when you guys are here...easier and faster in answers.

And if they are then you can just start chalking up the loses. Two defensive liabilities? NO FREAKEN WAY!

mike

franky,

"Damn Kwame is hard to watch."

not to mention kwame is one ugly looking dude...

It's really a matter of what we need, and the hope that when you're on the floor, your weaknesses don't overweigh your strengths. A lot of the players in the league has many weaknesses (Kobe included), but it's a matter of being able to play effectively enough that the weak stuff don't get put on display night in and night out....straight out overlapping whatever good you do. For example, sure you make score 10-15, but if you give up 20 to your man, that's not good. That's really my biggest problem with Cook. Though technically it doesn't hurt as much in defense, if you lock down your guy, and you scored 2, that's ok lol.

Faith
"A lot of the players in the league has many weaknesses (Kobe included), but it's a matter of being able to play effectively enough that the weak stuff don't get put on display night in and night out...."

BLASPHEMY, Kobe is perfect….you’re a hater and should be condemned to the depths of hell for saying such things about our Holy Triangle.

Faith-

As you can see, the transcript is there. For the Now Live show, you go to their website: www.nowlive.com, and click on "Purple Gold and Blue with Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky". Our show link should pop up. At that point, you should be able to log onto the chat board, or call the show and talk to us (it works just like real radio, except on the interweb).

You (and others) might have to register with NowLive, but that process takes about twenty seconds, and they don't send you spam (I'm registered, obviously, and have had no pernicious flooding of my inbox).

It's a lot of fun, and the combination of live chat with live call-in radio makes it very dynamic. Plus, no commercials.

BK

M T,
"Those are the only two stats that tell you the truth."

LOL!! Silly Mike. Stats are for kids!!

No, those stats don't "tell the truth". Because you are looking at two different sets of players, and they are playing against different teams.

The best test to see who is better is to see who started when both were available, because for that particular set of games, everything else was as close to equal as it could be - same opponents, same set of teammates. Even that isn't always a valid test, though, because the coach may prefer to have someone come off the bench, even if they are better.

But I think everyone would agree that, for the most part, the best player starts.

Oops, sorry, M T, in this case that would be Mihm!!

lol BK. OK!

KL,

"BTW, i noticed that there are two points which i've made that really gets you riled up. First is the the ability (or inability) to restructure player contracts uner the CBA and second is my post on Devean Geroge. Why does my example using George grab your attention? Seems like you ignore everthing else. just curious."

Because both examples were factually incorrect, so I think it's worth noting that. There's a difference between presenting an opinion I (or someone else) might not agree with and backing your opinion with examples that are 100% incorrect. Those examples were 100% incorrect, so I pointed them out, if for no other reason than to clarify it for other readers.

As for any "other stuff" (which I assume is just your general opinions), I'm not responding because there's no real point. You've clearly made up your mind regarding Kobe and you're not particularly interested in considering points to the contrary, so why would I get into it? That would be a waste of both our time. No offense intended, but that's pretty much the size of it. I'm only really going to respond if something is 100% factually off the mark and I think it deserves clarification.

AK

AK,

How come you never respond when we go on about zombies? Are they factually correct? haha, jk.

Actually I'm with you.

Faith,

As far as I'm concerned, if the zombies are wrong, I don't wanna be right. haha

AK

Who cares who's better between Mihm and Kwame? They both stink. If Bynum doesn't come around we have no hope beyond the 1st round. I think Mihm is a better back-up than Kwame, especially for the money. Kwame will need to take a big pay cut to be in the NBA in '08-'09.

Faith, Zombies are always correct. Of course, that's because they don't try to answer anything...they just are.

Ex, you know nothing good is going to come of that. Although you're right, I'm sure, that Phil started Mihm for a reason.

Michael A,

"Although you're right, I'm sure, that Phil started Mihm for a reason."

DOY!! It was all part of his plan to get Walton a big contract.

Hey all you PJ fans you never answered this question:

"From the L.A. Times Jerry Crowe:

"Why was Michael Jordan a no-show at Jackson's Hall of Fame induction? Ditto Scottie Pippen, Shaquille O'Neal and Bryant. . . . "

Can anyone confirm that Dr. Jerry Buss and his son Jimmy Buss didn't go, either. I didn't see them on T.V. or in any photos of the ceremony.

That's a lot of no-shows.

What happened? Kobe and Phil are on the same page? Yeah, right!

mike

AK,

"if the zombies are wrong, I don't wanna be right"

No offense, but I liked Barbara Mandrell's version better.

Especially the one where she and her sisters dressed up in Lakers Girls outfits. And mud-wrestled Jeannie Buss and Dyan Cannon.

Oops, sorry, I dozed off there for a minute. What were we talking about?

Michael A,

"you know nothing good is going to come of that"

Nope, that is the one that is going to change the course of history.

I have to believe that, otherwise there is no point ...

2007-09-11 13:29:16.0 Mike Teniente: Is this a question and answer type situation?

Oh, Mike T. You never cease to amaze.

AK... I'm glad that you've finally given your opinion on zombies. I'm just happy that you're not one of those zombie apologists.

I read that the Suns are still trying to move Marion to avoid the luxury tax. They were actually in discussions with Utah to trade him for frigging Kiralenko!

If they're that desperate, I think salary relief can be spelled K-w-a-m-e. Nice fat 9+K contract that expires in a year. Throw in Rad or a combo of Cook and either Sacha or Farmar and it's a close enough salary match to put them under this year and way under next year. Plus Rad and/or Cook&Sacha are the kind of shooters that would fit their system too. Hell if push comes to shove I'd even throw in Bynum and get PJ or Webber to come in to split 5 time with Mihm.

I think Kobe, Lamar (if healthy) and Marion would be a "big 3" that could get us to the West finals THIS year.

LOL! Zombies are indeed factual lol.

Mike T, I'm pretty sure Kobe was still in Asia on his Nike Trip. As for MJ...maybe they didn't part on the best of terms? I've never really thought of him as close to his players, he's simply too manipulative (good or bad) for that.

"I read that the Suns are still trying to move Marion to avoid the luxury tax. They were actually in discussions with Utah to trade him for frigging Kiralenko!"

If they do that, I will laugh, laugh, laugh so hard. I don't understand how they can think they will be able to compete and avoid the luxury tax by selling off everything from draft picks to players.

Michael T,

>>>Odom, Bynum, Farmar for JO and Shawnee Williams.

Farmar? When did Farmar enter the conversation of that trade? I think
you've been sharing some of what Shawne Williams was smoking. Indiana
wanted Crittendon, but I feel if the Lakers do give in to both Odom and Bynum,
then any other players are going to be from further down the bench, maybe
Sasha or Evans.

Michael T,

>>>The problem with the live chat is that AK and BK are so biased in their
>>>point of view

This from the person who jumped into a live Q&A session and promptly
didn't ask a question but expounded that the Lakers MUST get rid of Phil
Jackson. If you wanted to hear something new from them, then why didn't
you ask them a new question, rather than repeating your pet theory
(which I don't agree with but I feel you are fully entitled to, and at least
is well reasoned).

Actually, AK and BK said a couple of things I hadn't read here before from
them.

BTW, hope you had a nice haircut.

>>>BLASPHEMY, Kobe is perfect….you’re a hater and should be condemned
>>> to the depths of hell for saying such things about our Holy Triangle.

Jackson 5:12

Yea, and the Lakers did run down the court, and passed they into the post.
And guarded was the post man by two of their opponents. So faked to the
cutter did he, and passed he out to the jump shooter. And thus shot the
jump shooter and netted he a three-pointer. And there was much cheering
and pumping of fists. And thus went they into overtime. Here endeth the
lesson.

Jay Jay,

>>>If they're that desperate, I think salary relief can be spelled K-w-a-m-e.
>>>Nice fat 9+K contract that expires in a year. Throw in Rad or a combo
>>>of Cook and either Sacha or Farmar and it's a close enough salary match
>>>to put them under this year and way under next year.

I really like this sort of trade, but the Lakers already tried to do this for
Camby, and the other team reportedly laughed. I remember reading that
Phoenix proposed to trade Marion for Odom earlier in the summer -- I doubt
they would settle for Kwame as the main piece. Maybe at the trade
deadline, but not now.

>>>Hell if push comes to shove I'd even throw in Bynum...

I'd at least think about it even at that cost. In that case, I wouldn't include
Farmar or Critter, but if they'd take Rad's contract to balance things out,
then maybe. (Kwame + Bynum + Rad for Marion)

The one problem with the trade is now you're really really really gambling
that Bynum won't become a major stud, or you've just guaranteed that
with Bynum, Stoudamire, Barbosa, et. al. that the Suns will win the Pacific
for MANY MANY years to come. I might do the deal, but I'd be very very
nervous about it.

Did anyone hear the tribute that Bill Russell gave to Red Auerbach at the HOF ceremony? If what Russell said is true, there's no way Phil Jackson is a better coach than Auerbach. That guy did a lot of team orientated things. He had everyone feeling like they were welcomed members of their team.

No way does Phil Jackson come close to that.

mike

One more thing on the Shawn Marion trade idea.

One more thing -- note that the trades the Suns have tried to do for Marion
don't involve a "salary dump". Kurt Thomas was a salary dump. For Marion
they seem to expect to get back a player that can play at a high level NOW.
The three rumors that come to mind involving trades for Marion were Kevin
Garnett, Lamar Odom, and Andrei Kirilenko, all three of whom play at a much
higher level than Kwame. So merely reducing the salary isn't enough -- they
want to pay 3 or 4 million less THIS year and still have a high quality player.

Kwame doesn't do that, and neither does Farmar or Critter or even Bynum.

They are a team that is playing their hand exactly the opposite of the Lakers.
They've thrown away almost all of their recent draft picks, they ONLY want
skilled proven veterans because they want to win NOW before Steve Nash
runs out of gas.

What If Kobe Bryant Stays in LA?
by Dave Finocchio .

First of all, God help us.

If ever there were a "this could get so, so ugly so, so fast" team, it's your 2007-08 Los Angeles Lakers.

Will Phil or Kobe explode first? Will Kobe blame Mitch Kupchack or Andrew Bynum first? Will Lamar Odom's feelings get hurt before or after the first game?

If you were worried about Kevin Garnett physically harming his teammates in Minnesota, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Backcourt

Javaris Crittenton and Jordan Farmar have combined for 42 years on earth...and close to zero real production in the NBA.

Nothing like inexperienced youth running the triangle offense (like Ron Harper, right?).

But that's why the Lakers brought back...Derek Fisher.

Now this is just fantastic. Where else can you find a sport in which an undersized role player has his value increase just as he's moving into the "I'm definitely washed up" years.

Kobe and Fisher down the stretch—it'll work just fine against fearsome division rivals like the Los Angeles Clippers and Sacramento Kings.

I can't get over this. Mitch Kupchak's big present to Kobe Bryant was Derek Fisher? Nothing says stick around and lead this team to glory like...Derek Fisher. You've gotta be kidding me.

Frontcourt

A healthy Luke Walton and Lamar Odom are worth at least three or four more wins.

Walton is Rick Fox with better vision—talk about a compliment. And like Fox, he'd be a perfect fit if the Lakers still had Shaquille O'Neil in his prime.

As it stands, he's an average (at best) player at his position. And with all the other guys making mistakes around him, you're never going to notice Walton.

But you will notice Lamar Odom and his unwavering ability to disappear for weeks at a time. Here's a suggestion: Someone punch this guy in the face before every game. I literally have NEVER see him play hard until he's instigated or shown up on the court.

Odom does play Shawn Marion well, though...and the Lakers play the Suns four times.

Center(s)

Andrew Bynum or Kwame Brown? Do we even need to get into this?

Oh the anticipation...I feel like Eric Cartman waiting for a Nintendo Wii. Except I'd rather just see Kobe on another team.

Jerry Buss—do us all a favor and get Kobe out of LA.

(And don't even think about keeping Kobe around and signing Gilbert Arenas next offseason. They couldn't play together....don't bother looking into it.)

"They've thrown away almost all of their recent draft picks, they ONLY want
skilled proven veterans because they want to win NOW before Steve Nash
runs out of gas."

Yeah, but Marion IS a proven veteran. They just want to save money. Why would they throw away James Jones for cash when he was a decent contributor?

Aloha BK

You were right on with your response to KL. KL turns people into Kobe defenders with his total disreguard for the facts. I remeber one time he was talking about how Kobe had driven certain role players away from the Lakers when in fact they were traded. Opinions are what drive the blog and thats fine, but making an argument based on innacurate information is, well lets just say he wouldnt make the 8 grade debate team with a lot of his arguments. Please continue to keep him honest. Thanks.

MH

MH

AK

"Because both examples were factually incorrect, so I think it's worth noting that. There's a difference between presenting an opinion I (or someone else) might not agree with and backing your opinion with examples that are 100% incorrect."

fair enough. i'm willing to eat crow when wrong, so no worries.

i actually disagree a little with my mind being set, although i don't readily admit it, my opinion has deviated a little when proven to be incorrect or off base.

i appreciate your response.

Long Time LF -

I don't think cry baby Kiralenko plays at that much higher a level than a combo of Kwame and Rad. He pretty much disappeared in the playoffs too. It was reading that they were considering giving up Marion for him that prompted my original post - up til then I thought they would actually insist on someone playing at a "high level" as you say.

BTW it does us no more good to give up Lamar for Marion than it does to swap him for JO. We need THREE top notch players to win as we had with Magic, Kareem, and Big Game James or Wilt, West and Goodrich.

aloha mike

"I remeber one time he was talking about how Kobe had driven certain role players away from the Lakers when in fact they were traded. Opinions are what drive the blog and thats fine, but making an argument based on innacurate information is, well lets just say he wouldnt make the 8 grade debate team with a lot of his arguments."

i am 100% ready to eat crow when wrong, but your point that kobe didn't drive anybody out of LA is way off base. First of all, kobe drove shaq out of LA. That’s a fact. Don’t give me this bull shizzle that “shaq wanted $300 million” or “Buss wanted this”.

KOBE WANTED SHAQ OUT AND KOBE GOT WHAT HE WANTED AND LA FANS SUFFER BECAUSE OF IT. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Not to mention, kobe’s being a little kbiatch about it and wants to bail on LA…

in my most humble opinion, for someone to say that kobe had nothing to do with the entire 2004 laker squad being traded or opting out to take more money elsewhere is simple naive. i have no concrete evidence that kobe made management trade players that he didn't want around anymore, nor do i have evidence that other players left LA for more money because of kobe, but it's 100% not coincidental that EVERYONE BUT GEORGE LEFT LA AFTER 2004.

AK correctly pointed out that George didn’t not leave LA until after the 2006 season, but george left didn’t he? GEORGE CHOSE NOT TO BE KOBE’S KBIATCH JUST LIKE THE ENTIRE 2004 SQUAD.

i’ll say again, I am not trying to change anybody’s opinion because, like my opinion, they are usually set. What I do know is that kobe wanted to be the “man” in LA and now kobe wants to be a kbiatch and bail on “his” team….”his” team which he forcibly took from shaq. End of story. Period.

Aloha Long time

What puzzles me about the Suns making moves to win now is, what are they thinking, reallY? I mean they GIVE away Kut Thomas their only other good interior player other then Amare. They give away James Jones, who provided some quality minutes. And they dont replace either with any size. They did add grant Hill but he wasnt what they needed to get over the top, they already can score from the preimeter. If they do not win a ring in the Nash years it will because they stubornly ignored what wins rings, a balanced inside out game with good Defense. I dont get it.

MH

>>>"Yeah, but Marion IS a proven veteran. They just want to save money.
>>>Why would they throw away James Jones for cash when he was a
>>>decent contributor?"

Not sure about Jones. Maybe they already had the idea in their heads of
going for Grant Hill and they just wanted to clear the way.

With every trade I've heard rumored regarding Marion, it's for some major
player who makes less money (or in Garnett's case, is much better).
They want to save money, but still have a proven veteran. Marion makes
16 million. Odom makes 13 million. If you trade them straight up, then they
save 6 million dollars next year on a player who's pretty close to as good
(Marion scores a couple more points, Odom makes a few more assists,
the rebounding is dead even). Similar situation with Kirilenko. Note also
that Kirilenko and Odom are both better post defenders than Marion, so
maybe they're hoping to patch that hole as part of the trade as well.

Have you heard (not rumors in a blog, but reported by ESPN) of any
trade that Phoenix has been purported to be considering that has Marion
going out for a non-player like Kwame?

Do you believe that they would trade Marion, who gives them a chance to
win it all NOW for a trade where the important piece was Bynum, who
isn't likely to contribute for a few years? That would move them back in
the direction of the Lakers, and move the Lakers more into a win now
state.

Don't overestimate the value of an expiring contract. It won't get you an
all-star at the beginning of the season. Now if Steve Nash broke his leg
and Phoenix was out of the playoff picture, then Phoenix MIGHT trade
Marion for Kwame for salary reduction, but not now.

Jay Jay,

>>>I don't think cry baby Kiralenko plays at that much higher a level than
>>>a combo of Kwame and Rad.

Well that's where you're wrong. Kirilenko is an excellent defender, both on
the ball and as a team defender. And up until he got injured a year ago
(a year and a half ago?) he was scoring at a similar pace as Lamar and
Shawn as well. Season before last he averaged 15.3 points, 8 rebounds,
and 3.2 blocks [3.2 BLOCKS!!!!!]. If he gets back the level he was playing
at then, he's arguably as good or better than Marion or Odom.

>>BTW it does us no more good to give up Lamar for Marion than it does
>>to swap him for JO. We need THREE top notch players to win as we
>>had with Magic, Kareem, and Big Game James or Wilt, West and
>>Goodrich.

I totally agree with you. Marion and Odom are a statistical wash. They
play different games, but produce at about the same level. And we'd be
paying 3 million a year MORE to get out of Marion what we already get
out of Odom. I was mentioning a trade that Phoenix actually proposed
to the Lakers, not one that I was suggesting.

Come On KL

You always fall back on Kobe drove out Shaq blah blah blah. And thats fine, its opinion, no problems with that. But then you get into the whole other conspiricacy thing about everyone else and thats when you begin to sound like an NBA version of an AREA 51 scifi nut. The fact is, outside Kobe and Shaq, we had become a very bad team and who cares about the other guys. Slava and Rush were key reserves! If Kobe was behind them leaving, we owe him our thanks. (Rush was traded by the way)

Fact after trading Shaq we needed a center. We TRADED Payton and Fox for Mihm. And lets face it Fox had played in like 10 games over the previous 2 years and was over, so he retired before playing with Boston. And Payton? Dont you remember how totally lost in the triangle he was. Didnt you read the sports section then? He was ragged on daily by the LA press and the fans. Is it any wonder they traded him? Come on now.

Fact- Malone retired. 40+ and NBA do not mix. Do you really believe Kobe could drive a dude like Malone away? He had offers to play with Shaq and Duncan. He understood he was over and stepped away.

Lets see Luke is still here and so is Cook both resigning to play with Kobe.
Lets see who else was on that team, Bryon Russell an acient bench warmer that was pushing 40 and hung it up. Who else, who is the kid from ucla, thats played on I think a new team every year. He never played and I cant remember his name. Ho Grant was actually still on the roster that year but he got hurt and retired. D-Fish got 2 million more then our offer to go to Golden State and oh by the way before you say he should have taken less, he's not a mega star, 2 million is a big difference for a role player and he eventually came back to play with Kobe.

Oh FYI, I really dont think we offered George a new contract and really, have you missed him? I dont. We have enough under achievers on the team.

So this was to quote you, your "ready made championship team" that Kobe destroyed. We were a sixth to eigth seed waiting to happen if Shaq had stayed. KL we were not good, can you honestly say our role players were good enough? If we still had quality role players and had two more Rings left in us, dont you think Dr Buss would at least have tried to keep it together? We were over, and one more thing you always like to say, all of these free agents would have come here to play with Shaq and Kobe. Who are they? I dont know if you have noticed but until Grant Hill this summer, no one has given up the cash for a chance at a ring. No quality guys signed on with Miami, the Spurs, Suns, none of them. So that would not have happened either. So if you want to go on about Shaq vs Kobe, fine be my guest And please feel free to let us all know exactly how we could have won with what we had left. I would love to hear it. Of course you never have in the past because its tough to defend that roster. But if you can, I will be happy to read about it.

Aloha

MH

What About This Trade??

3 Team Trade: Milwaukee Bucks, L.A.Lakers & Houston Rockets.

Minor Tweaks In Areas we can improve in.

L.A.Lakers Incoming Players: Charlie Villanueva, Lynn Greer, Bonzi Wells & Luther Head.

Houston Rockets Incoming Players: Brian Cook & David Noel.
Add Lakers 08 2nd Round Pick.

Milwaukee Bucks Incoming Players: Maurice Evans Jordan Farmar & Sasha Vujacic.

Trade Machine Link:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2215~3017~2792~1998~1031~3002~2421~2763~901&teams=13~10~13~10~15~15~15~13~13&te=&cash=

Lakers New Line Up:

Fisher/Crittenton/C.Karl? or Try To Sign C.Webber
Kobe/L.Head/L.Greer
L.O./Luke/B.Wells
C.Villanueva/Turiaf/Radmanovic
Kwame/Bynum/Mihm

Any Thoughts or Ideas??

Thanks Peace

Ex

I'm not sure your theory of Mihm starting over Kwame when both were happy quite cuts it...

That was the first part of Kwame's first season with the team and he was a definite project...theres a multitude of reasons why Mihm might have started over Kwame from motivational//confidence reasons to Mihm being better offensively while the triangle was being learnt.But theres no doubt Kwame featured as a bigger part of the lakers plans moving forward.He is just far more of an X factor than Mihm.

I think the way Kwame played after Mihm got injured in '06 and the early part of last year...not to mention the teams performance over that time.The playoff game that the lakers won was when Kwame showed up.Had Kwame performed consistently like that... this team would be in completely different shape.Theres no way an on form Mihm can help the team as much as an on form Kwame.Its really a pointless argument.

If Indiana wants both LO and AB they will have to include Granger for this trade to work. In that case we can have decent starting 5 and no need to go after Ron Artest.

TODAY: (Wednesday, September 12, 2007) IS DEDICATED TO KWAME BROWN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PAST HONOREES: MIKE TENIENTE, EDWIN GUECO, KLBEAST, GENERIC_ONE, A.K. J.J.,
LAKER TOM, SONNY BELFAST, JOREMA, TALIQ, DAVID WHANG, THA SHOW, FAITH, BOB
RICK FRIEDMAN, HOBBITMAGE, FATTY, KOBE APOLOGIST, ANGRY LAKER, ANDREW Z,
EXHELODRVR, THA SHOW, TWOODY, WESJOENIXON
NEXT HONOREE (?)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Picture a combination Shaq and Kareem and you have just a semblance of the greatness of today’s
nominee. Yes by acclimation today is dedicated to that cake loving fool himself, Kwame The Rock Brown.
From the day Kwame was acquired all former Laker centers have had to take a backseat. In Washington
the talent of Kwame was almost ruined by the jealousy of some character called MJ. The punk MJ had
the nerve to call Kwame a flaming faggot and it was only because of the steel trap self control of Kwame
that MJ still walks the earth today. MJ knew if Kwame was not traded his days on this earth were limited
so in the steal of a lifetime he was traded to the Lakers for some no talent throwaway named Caron Butler.
Kwame should have been a two time all star in his time with the Lakers but due to unfortunate injuries,
which Kwame was willing to play thru, but the jealousy of that freakin ball hog Kobiatch forced Mitch to put
him on the injured list so that Kwame would not outshine ball hog Kobiatch. But little did Mitch know that
being injured was a blessing in disguise for Kwame for then one of the turning points of Kwame’s life
occurred. Kwame met a genius by the name of MIKE TENIENTE who most lovingly just call MIKE T. Mike
showed Kwame that the entire Laker team should rightfully revolve around him and threw a celebration in
which the Lakers hack of a coach Phil 9Lies Jackson tried to sneak into. Kwame would have none of that
crap and threw the cake that Phil attempted to give him at 9lies. The cake missed 9lies and a lie was made
up that Kwame was trying to hit some unfortunate birthday celebrant. Over the off-season Kwame issued
an ultimatum after reading the JACKSON JOURNAL that either 9lies Jackson had to go or he would. In order
to cover up this story the ballhog Kobiatch was told to put on an act about his threat to leave effectively
covering up one of the most explosive stories in Lakers history that Kwame would leave and expose 9lies
for the fraud he was in throwing games and getting a pay raise for Luke Walton when everyone knows
that Kwame deserves at least 20 million a year but accepts 9 million because of his love of the game and
because he is a team player. When told that he would be honored to day Kwame tried to beg off because
of the modest soul that he is, but the bloggers of the Laker Blog would have none of it. And so because
of your supreme talent combined with supreme modesty today we celebrate Kwame Fists of Fury Brown.
Kwame it is you who put the “Freakin” in the Lakers and so we honor you on this September 12, 2007.
Thank you for your spirited play and lightening fast hands. It’s not your fault that your hands are so fast
that the fools trying to pass to you are not able to keep up you freak you.
Enjoy your day as millions have enjoyed your play.
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POST OF THE WEEK:
As a believer of Jesus-Christ I'm using my spiritual rights to execute Judgment on this whole situation.
Now if I've written the truth the Lord will execute it on my behalf. MIKE T.

What the hell are you talking about?? Save the TBN for another blog please. Jerry Buss isnt GOD, CHRIST
or anybody important..just like KOBE ISNT anything. YOU people GIVE too much credence to Kobe, Phil,
Jerry Buss, Jim Buss, Jim Gray, Ric Bucher, Bill Plaschke, hoopshype, AK/BK, kb24.com...i could keep going
You CARE WAAY TOO MUCH about that crap. It's basketball and you should worry about basketball decisions.

This stuff is way over your head. It's best you just let it go before it bites you for putting your hand where
it doesn't belong. MIKE T.

I get my leg strength back. My explosiveness. My pop. That was a big part of my game. My first step.
My quick leaping. My explosiveness. " Is this Amare Stoudamire or Chris Mihm?? Are you JOKING
Chris Mihm?? Are you really serious?? YOURE A BUST. You were some big time draft pick from the
Cavs if I remember correctly and 8 years later youre a bust almost like the Kandiman. Seriously you were
never that good to begin with so dont get your hopes up. LAKE SHOW

KL Based on the mental power you display on this blog I wouldn't hire you for anything but physical labor.
RATIONALFAN

And without the spotlight, well Gunner and KL won't be interested cuz what use is ranting 'kobe
sucks' if the rest of the blog is just interested in going 'mike t, have you lost ya gad*amn mind yet again"
Get him mike, get him, slay the beast for us ... lmfao TALIQ

Personally I'll take the ladder, cuz you can be sure mike t will switch it up and come back at you with the
burning bush. Whereas KL is stuck on the a$$ that captains the lakers and frankly speaking there's just
so much a$$ one man can take. TALIQ
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55 WIN BANDWAGON MEMBERS:
(1) Laker Tom (2) Marty (3) HUBBIT (4) Fearless Whack Job (5) Mamba24/10
(6) David Whang (7) BD (8) Dan Dan the Laker Fan (9) Long Time Laker Fan
(10) Roky (11) JoninJapan(In Canada) 12) JUNO (13) KEIFO,
(14) Alexinho17 (15) TALIQ (16) GENERIC_ONE (17) VIOLATER
(18) Twoody (19) SLO Gal (20) HobbitIMage (21) dice8up (22) Andrew Z

Members at heart
(1) Bob
(2) Faith
(3) LakerLover
ROLL THE DICE ON JO BANDWAGON
1.Tha Show
2. Andrew Z
3.Xodus
4.Mamba24
5 Edwin Gueco
6. Exhelodrvr
7. Long Time Laker Fan
8. Me

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEARY-OF-BANDWAGON BANDWAGON MEMBERS
(1) Cbuck
(2) J. Walter WeatherMan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND NOW ROLL CALL
(1) FAITH, MIKE T. TALIQ, Edwin Gueco,, KEIFO, Mamba24Fan4Life, Fan of Mamba, Wolf, Man
KIWI, WOW, PEACE, J_COOL, DAVID WHANG, ADAM KILEY, LAKERSRYDEORDIE, CLEON
FISH_GUY,TIM-4-SHOW, THA_ SHOW, WESJOENIXON, BAYWOO, THE_D, SBPIMP,
CHARLES, Precious, NEVER, CALI KING, RICK FRIEDMAN,THIRTY2, EXHELODRVR,
GENERIC_ONE, TWOODY, JJ, AJAX, MITCHELL., LAKERTOM, LAKERFAN, CHARLES,
KHANG VMAN, KOREY, XTRO, MCGARNAGLE, GUGY, GDChild,Laker4Life, Laker Seth
KL BEAST, Jorema, FearlessWhackJob, MARTY, JANDRO, LAKERFAZE, PhxLkrFAN,
TexasLaker, BOB, TreacherousBalloons, EagleBoy, JR., EASTCOASTJESSIE, Zakee,
Tully Moxness, KobeRocks, David Peterson, centralk, 244Life, SamII, vi lakerfan
Swettual, Utzworld, Andrew Z, LAL Fan, BRANDON C., Kinglakernidas, BlackMamba24,
FKILLAH, CYRUS(VENTRILIQUIST), RespectMyAuthorith, Waterboy, Hariyahu, HUBBIT
ZEN, SARCOCOP,Staples24, Bobby, COMPTONS FINEST, MIGUELINHO, Greek Dude,
SOCALIFE, HAL9000, Greekdude, Michael J, Michael H, Michael A., Rick Friedman,
Gunner24, GINO, FATTY, CBUCK,LAKERGURL, CRITICAL BEATDOWN, PFUNK36,
PAUL LEE, Jay EL, SocalSpider , WEAVE MAN, JON KAVULIC, Tajluck, Alexinho17
BERKLEYLAKER, Dice8Up DION, KARL, CRAIG, MITCHELL, Lakers4Life, Ryan
JR, Dascilla, tellitlikeitisNik Kannan, GABE, SEAN P., HanSoulFood, HollywoodJack,
Jay Jay, TaosHum, HOBBITIMAGE, Caeser, Obel, CHITOWNLAKER, ANGRYLAKER
wiZo, MagicShaq, HugoBoss, OSCAR, RDLEE, RealityBites, LakerLarry, Bucky, LEELO,
Juno, LakerLifer, C.S. JOVA, BLAZE1BX, Tripgame3, TSPHERE, SIXONEZERO,
Mfeige, Reggie, Hollywood Jack, Reality Check Time, Jack In Hollywood, SLO Gal
JONINJAPAN(INCANADA), VIOLATER, LT Laker Fan, , KATE, TROY, Mainor, Caesar
JEFF, ANDY B., SWANWORLD, PUPLE&GOLD_4EVA, BENNY BLANCA,CS in Virg
EMMA, TIM IN SYDNEY RISING STAR, LakerBake, JuanMan888,Blkthght06, Man
Any_One_mouse, 10milliondollarZen, Shiva, Laker_Hopeful, LakerDawg, East Nyboer
,Ghost of Spiderman, Steve in Denver Guy Owanlele, Lincoln Laker, Houston Laker
MITCH KUPCHAK, JERRY BUSS, PHIL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT, CLEON
Marc Gasol, Sun Yue, Shamond, Williams, Ronny Turiaf, V. Radmanovic, Jennifer
Maurice Evans, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, KOBE FROM MANILAS
Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Coby Karl, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar, Jarvis Critterton, JERMAINE ONEAL???, Larry Fulcher

ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES
THE HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
ELGIN BAYLOR, JERRY WEST, PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, SILK
COACHED BY THE 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON ANDAND
NO ONE AND NOTHING WILL EVER DIVIDE OR CONQUER

I just scanned through the transcript of the live chat. It's a pretty cool deal.

I'd rather see an actual athlete answer the questions though. No dis to AK/BK who make it happen, and are very intelligent Lakerwise. But there was nothing there that was very interesting, or new. The blog itself has much more interesting comments.

Ex, if you get anything more than the standard response, I'll tip my hat to you. It's not going to happen though. The bright light of truth can't reach every shadowy corner.

AK/BK,

The live chat was cool, thanks for doing that.

Xodus,

To be honest, I don't like Ben Gordon or Andres Nocioni as part of the deal. I do like Gordon but he's awfully undersized, and I think Nocioni is redundant with Walton and Vlad. If we could get rid of Vlad it would be another story. Obviously Gordon would have to be part of the deal because Kobe plays his position.

As the season progresses and teams get a better feel for what their chances are for success, a lot of things can change. I still feel that if Kobe is moved it will require at least a three team deal.

Don't overlook Washington as a possible participant. That Antwan Jamison expiring deal is going to be very valuable.

But I do like Ty Thomas, I think the LA fans would love the excitement he brings to the game.

Kiwi - an on-form Kwame gives us a guy who can cover a post defender, doesn't rebound, doesn't help team D at all, because he can't rotate.
Let's not talk about what a liability he is on offence...I think a lot of teams don't guard him unless he's actually under the basket. Even then,
he'll probably fumble the pass.

Mihm isn't as good an on-ball defender, or a much better rebounder, but he's tons better at every other phase of the game. Also, he's white. :-)

Mamba24, that was actually funny.

Aloha mike

“But then you get into the whole other conspiricacy thing about everyone else and thats when you begin to sound like an NBA version of an AREA 51 scifi nut.”

Agreed, I do sound kind of like a nut on the conspiracy theory. My point isn’t so much that kobe conspired to get people out (outside of shaq), but rather kobe’s disregard for others. In other words, kobe would rather pick and choose who he wins with instead of making the most of his opportunities. The current laker squad isn’t horrendously bad, but playing alongside kobe makes them play SUBOPTIMALLY. That’s what usually happens when you have a bad leader, everyone usually don’t perform as well as they can….this is one man’s opinion.

“Fact after trading Shaq we needed a center. We TRADED Payton and Fox for Mihm. And lets face it Fox had played in like 10 games over the previous 2 years and was over, so he retired before playing with Boston. And Payton? Dont you remember how totally lost in the triangle he was. Didnt you read the sports section then? He was ragged on daily by the LA press and the fans. Is it any wonder they traded him? Come on now.”

i’m willing to concede your points, but it doesn’t change the fact that they all left.

“Fact- Malone retired. 40+ and NBA do not mix. Do you really believe Kobe could drive a dude like Malone away? He had offers to play with Shaq and Duncan. He understood he was over and stepped away.”

Point isn’t who left and why. Malone could have helped in 2005, but kobe (in my most humble opinion) didn’t want anybody strong minded challenging him….is that too far fetched?

“Lets see Luke is still here and so is Cook both resigning to play with Kobe.”

I’ll give you this point as well. I believe I said that Walton Junior is a good signing. I’m not a big cook fan.

“D-Fish got 2 million more then our offer to go to Golden State and oh by the way before you say he should have taken less, he's not a mega star, 2 million is a big difference for a role player and he eventually came back to play with Kobe.”

I’m willing to bet that had Fish had more opportunities to win titles in LA, he would have stayed…Alonzo Mourning is a great example. The guy could have retired, but is going to lace them up one more time in pursuit of another title. One might make the argument for Grant Hill. You think guys like Zo and Hill would ever play for a malcontent, selfish player like kobe bryant? hell no… kobe doesn’t appreciate his teammates. One single flaw and kobe’s biatching and glaring (my patented kobe’s shizzle don’t stink argument) at his teammates. you think bynum will have a career year under kobe after kobe's summer of rage?

“Oh FYI, I really dont think we offered George a new contract and really, have you missed him? I dont. We have enough under achievers on the team.”

My point isn’t if George, payton, malone is any good, my point is that EVERYONE LEFT AND NOBODY HAS JOINED THE LAKERS SINCE SHAQ’S DEPARTURE BESIDES FISH. Let not forget, LA is Fish’s second choice and his motives are more financial than championship aspirations. Our biggest free-agent signing is our former PG over the past 3 seasons. And don’t give me this FO is incompetent crap. That’s a kobe argument to deflect blame. KLBeast is too smart for that one.

“So this was to quote you, your "ready made championship team" that Kobe destroyed. We were a sixth to eigth seed waiting to happen if Shaq had stayed.”

6th to 8th seed with shaq less kobe plus (say) wade…I believe we’d be still competing for championships. As I recall, Miami was a bottom seeded playoff team until shaq’s arrival which propelled Miami to contention not to mention a title.

“KL we were not good, can you honestly say our role players were good enough?”

Role players are an odd bunch, the leader has to learn how to best use them. A good leader knows that he can’t do it on his own. We have enough pieces to make noise in the playoffs, but you have to bring the best out of our role guys. I think we saw the potential at the beginning of last season…don’t give me the injury excuse, it happens to all teams. “kobe ball” was the beginning of the end of last season.

“We were over, and one more thing you always like to say, all of these free agents would have come here to play with Shaq and Kobe. Who are they?”

Malone, Payton, Ho Grant, Shaq, Fox, Richmond….

“So if you want to go on about Shaq vs Kobe, fine be my guest And please feel free to let us all know exactly how we could have won with what we had left.”

All I have to point to is Cleveland with similar circumstances propelling to the NBA finals with similar talent levels around an uber star. I don’t make excuses for this LA Laker team because I saw it coming the moment FO pulled the trigger to trade shaq away to placate kobe, then watching EVERYBODY LEAVE. That’s a fact. End of story. Period. (AK, I love your “end of story, period” statement).

Does anybody have a better link for the Phil Jackson on the AM station in Los Angeles from last wk.

I'm behind on that, wanted to hear it.

I hear the Jim Gray short interview.

Help a fellow Laker fan out

Had to take a break since nothing is happening and football has helped me get away from the "NO significant moves this summer BLUES"

for a little bit.

Can't wait for camp!

Kiwi,
"on form Kwame" vs "on form Mihm"? I suppose if you are "cutting and pasting" Kwame's best 48 minutes vs Mihm's best 48 minutes Kwame might be better. It sounds like you are still rating him on his position when he was drafted. Kwame has virtually no offense, poor-mediocre rebounding, good man defense, and poor help defense. Mihm has a very solid offensive game, good help defense, poor-mediocre rebounding, and poor-mediocre man defense. Mihm was showing steady improvement prior to the injuries. Kwame has shown minimal improvement, which is consistent with his time in Washington. I don't see how you can say that, based on that, Kwame is a seen as a bigger part of the Lakers future.

Michael A,
" Mamba24, that was actually funny.

Funny, Funny, there is nothing funny about the greatest center
the world is likely ever to see being overshadowed by a ballhog and
a lying coach. kwame brown is the Alpha and Omega of centers.
he is Omnipotent and Omniprescent. If you don't believe me
read the Jackson Journals. God bless you Kwame brown.
I have to go now before I start crying from the emotion of thinking
about such greatness.

Exhelodrvr,
"Kwame has virtually no offense, poor-mediocre rebounding, good man defense,
and poor help defense. Mihm has a very solid offensive game, good help defense,
poor-mediocre rebounding, and poor-mediocre man defense."

Ex, Ex? are you still with us. It's only because I like you that I will attempt to
now associate with one who commits blasphemy against a GOD. A God man?
We're not talking about Zombies here, We are talking about Kwame "Fists of Fury Brown"
Tread softly my friend, you go now where even Zombies fear to tread. I shall try to
see if the Magic one Generic_one has some type of spell to protect you.

Mamba24,

Sorry, I lost my head for a second. I meant to say that "2007-8 is going to be Kwame's breakout year. Bynum will be lucky to get five minutes a game. Because of his versatility, Kwame will replace both Josh Howard and Amare Stoudamire on Team USA next summer. Think Bill Russell with corn rows."

Repost from midnight last night on the Chris Mihm 2 thread:

THE KL BEAST FINAL SOLUTION:

Aha! I've finally figured out what's really going on with KL Beast, and why he acts the way he does.

KL doesn't actually believe all the anti-Kobe propaganda he spouts. Some of it, sure, but not most of it. What he's doing is TRYING to irritate us by being over the top in his opinions, his lack of evidence and logic, his invalidation of the very concept of facts, the hateful emotion with which he often expresses his ideas, and his general wise ass, defiant attitude. He knows he's twisting facts to justify conclusions he's already decided to post. He knows he doesn't make sense. He knows this irritates us.

But that's KL's game. We're trying to actually discuss the Lakers, but he isn't. He's trying to disrupt our discussion. His low opinion of Kobe is something he created for the purpose of getting other bloggers into an exchange with him. He's looking for attention and something to do. He's captured the market position of being "the anti-Kobe guy," and that gets a lot of the rest of us to "do business" with him. His extremism is just part of his marketing of that position. It draws attention.

If KL just posted straight analysis and only when he had something significant to say, no one would notice him. But by posting many times per day, answering almost everyone who posts anything about him, and repeatedly saying the same things that he knows will draw disagreement, he gets to have communication with us, even though at a low level.

He's hijacked a portion of the blog. He's a parasite, sucking life out of what the rest of us are trying to do. He doesn't believe the worst of what he says about Kobe. It's an act he's putting on to get attention. Of course he'll deny this by way of another wise ass comment. But that is, as he says, his schtick.

The point is, KL is all schtick and no substance. But he's learned that his negative schtick draws attention and gets people to communicate with him and about him. That makes him feel a little more alive. The sad truth is that he can't get attention and friends by being just a normal, regular Lakers fan who has observations and analysis to share. He's not capable of that. So, he does what he can do to snare us into noticing that he's there. He calculates what will irritate us, and that's what he posts.

KL is like a little kid who doesn't understand what the grown-ups are talking about, but insists on getting their attention by running around the living room knocking things over, squealing, and generally being irritating. And this is exactly why he should be banned. If he wants to play in his room or the back yard, that's OK. But he needs to be banned from the living room where the grown-ups are talking.

AK's put-down of KL earlier today was a step in the right direction but didn't go far enough. KL needs to be banned. His purpose for being on the blog is not the same as the vast majority of the rest of us. We're here to discuss the Lakers for real. KL is here to pretend to discuss the Lakers, but in an irritating way calculated to draw our attention off our grown up discussion and onto him. He's a parasite. That's tolerable in young children because we love them and know they'll grow out of it. KL should have grown out of it years ago, and, well, I don't think many of us love him.

So, AK, it's time to pull the trigger and send KL to his room without dinner. Or, better yet, ship him off to boarding school, preferably one of those "lace 'em up tight" military schools with sadistic headmasters.

No kidding. Now that we know what KL is really up to, it's time to kick him out of the living room so the adults can talk. Other bloggers please post your agreement so AK can justify doing what needs to be done.

And, by the way AK, if you don't kick KL off the blog, this post and the posts of others agreeing with me will only feed KL's game and make it worse. We're giving him a lot of attention, which is what he wants. He'll take this post as a great victory for him in his immature game, and just give us even more of his "schtick." The only thing you can do is ban him. That's the only thing that will ever bring an end to the "KL problem." It's the unavoidable final solution. The buck stops with you. Pull the trigger.

Andrew Z,

>>>I do like Gordon but he's awfully undersized

I agree with you on both counts. I think within the bounds that Kobe and/or the Lakers set for a trade, he may be the
best SG available. The only taller SGs you might be able to pry loose from their teams are Sasha Pavlovic,

I think maybe the only way they get a better tall SG back is if Kobe was willing to go to Detroit, Atlanta, Milwaukee
or New Jersey.

>>>I think Nocioni is redundant with Walton and Vlad

Except for the fact that Nocioni is a much better defender than either of those guys. Noc is closer to a Rick Fox quality player
than either Walton or Vlad.

>>>Don't overlook Washington as a possible participant. That Antwan Jamison expiring deal is going to be very valuable.

And don't forget that Gilbert Arenas has already said he's opting out. If Kobe expanded his list to say 8 teams in the East
that he'd be willing to go to (since the playoff path would be much easier there), he'd make it a lot easier to get a deal done.

No Michael Jordan. No Scottie Pippen. No Shaq. No Kobe. No Dr. Buss? No Jimmy Buss?

Gee that Phil Jackson is pretty popular.

The Lakers 16 games above 500 when Kwame starts and break even with Mihm starts. Gee....I wonder who'll be starting this year.

LOL!

mike

Exhelodrvr,
" Sorry, I lost my head for a second. I meant to say that "2007-8 is going to be
Kwame's breakout year. Bynum will be lucky to get five minutes a game. Because
of his versatility, Kwame will replace both Josh Howard and Amare Stoudamire on
Team USA next summer. Think Bill Russell with corn rows."

Whewwww, That was a close one. LOL!

Rational Fan,

No disrespect, but I think you could sum up your entire post into the following sentence:

KLBeast = Attention Whore

Ex
I'm not really talking about who is better...Im talking about the fact that Kwame (however sad you feel) it is was supposed to be a big piece/impact player for the lakers...the fact they traded Butler for him suggests the hopes were high.

Had he done what he was supposed to do for the lakers he was set to be a bigger piece to the puzzle than Mihm who was always going to have less expected of him.
The only point was that who started etc at that time is not much of an argument as to who is/was the better player...theres also no escaping the fact that the lakers have only looked like a serious team when Kwame has been in the lineup and playing well.

I get the KL coolade comment yesterday and I'm setting myself up for Mike T comparisons today...why oh why do I do it to myself...maybe I should go on another haitus (no response necessary!)

Anyway it will all be going in my journal that will be running through the season which shall be titled 'Mihms mayhem' and will compare the two players on a game by game basis....not to be confused with the 'Abdul-jabbar Album' which will feature photographs of each players body language as they deal with Kobe during the course of each game.

Phil Jackson to managment:

"I can't coach unless I have a roster full of all-stars. That way I don't have to coach. I can do all kinds of stupid stuff and the all-stars with cover my behind with their all-star play. Plus I want 10 million dollars."

mike

Mike T,
"No Michael Jordan. No Scottie Pippen. No Shaq. No Kobe. No Dr. Buss? No Jimmy Buss?
Gee that Phil Jackson is pretty popular.

Phil 9Lies Jackson is a Bum. You Mike should be the coach of the Lakers

There's a difference between presenting an opinion I (or someone else) might not agree with and backing your opinion with examples that are 100% incorrect.
You've clearly made up your mind regarding Kobe and you're not particularly interested in considering points to the contrary, so why would I get into it? That would be a waste of time.

AK

Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 11, 2007 at 07:28 PM

i appreciate your response.

Posted by: KLBeast | September 11, 2007 at 11:24 PM

team which he forcibly took from shaq. End of story. Period.

Posted by: KLBeast | September 11, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Getting slapped, wrestled,stomped on doesn't seem to work on this spammer. Real CHEEKY. Reminds me of a school mate desperate to belong and embarrass himself to no end. Truly pathetic.

Michael Teniente - you keep quoting the 19 games over .500 when Kwame starts, whats the Lakers record in the post-season when Kwame starts?

Mike T. with you as the coach of the Lakers we will
restore them to their prior glory. Then there will be no need
for you to peddle those Jackson Journals on street corners.

Kiwi,
" was supposed to be a big piece/impact player for the lakers"

I agree with that, although I'm not sure that he was viewed as a bigger piece. I think the plan was that Mihm would be the center, and Kwame the PF.

My earlier posts were in reference to how they are viewed by the Lakers at the present time.

Id be averaging 20 and 10 if that Kobe didnt shoot a hundred times a game...you should see my three point shot in practice...and I almost bet Kobe in a game of round the world once too...I was a number one pick where was he? that should tell you who has more talent.We both came from high school and I was taken higher yeah baby!...thats why he wont pass me the ball...jealousy.At least that Smush isnt around to take all my rebounds this year.

As for Mihm? where did he go in the draft?...huh?

I just looked it up the Lakers are 4-8 with Kwame starting in the post-season the last two years.

KL beast
Mamba24 leaders of the laker blog
Hay quit makin fun of me no fair,you know iam a terrific player and hoping to make all pro this year.I just have these really tiny hands and i have a hard time catching the ball hehehheheheheheheheh no congratulations on you and KL for being the leaders on the blog.Join me for a drink anytime after the game ok buddy oh ya you got a real funny name MAMBA what the heck is that iam the best player on the team not tha ball hog hehheheheh ahhahhahahah hahahha KLBEAST you are the best man keep up the good work..best of luck Kwame Brown

Mike: "The Lakers 16 games above 500 when Kwame starts and break even with Mihm starts. Gee....I wonder who'll be starting this year."

How much do you think Kwame's contract extension is going to be?

Can't wait to see the Vegas odds on the Lakers's total wins this season. They're usually pretty close, so I trust their judgment. But they probably won't put up any until they know whether Kobe is staying or going.

It'll probably be a 45 wins over/under, that sounds reasonable.

Great post from Michael H refuting KL on Kobe driving away all our good players. He said basically the same thing I did a couple of weeks ago, but these facts are worth repeating.

And, amazingly, this time KL admits that they're true. Maybe my campaign to socialize him or ship him out is working. He does seem a little more civilized than usual. Way to go KL. If you keep this up I may change my mind about banning you. Of course, I don't think you can do it. But, go ahead and prove me wrong.

Now, KL admits that there were good reasons for all those players to leave, but says that if Shaq had stayed, many of them would have stayed, too, to have a shot at another championship. Actually, I agree with that. But that doesn't mean that Kobe drove them off, or that they didn't want to play with Kobe. Once Shaq was gone, the Lakers weren't going to win a championship no matter who stayed with them. So the players that had good reason to leave had no greater reason to stay.

This is just normal in the NBA. Teams go through cycles of rebuilding with youth, getting better over a period of a few years, then loading up with veterans, then winning championships, then getting too old to continue winning, and then breaking up to begin a new rebuilding cycle. This happened to the Lakers. It wasn't anyone's fault. It's just the nature of the business.

On the other hand, if Kobe did drive Shaq off, then he could be blamed for all the other guys not sticking around for at least one more year. But Kobe didn't drive Shaq off. Sure, there was a conflict between them, which they were motivated to keep under control when they were winining championships, and that worsened when they lost 2 years in a row. But this conflict wasn't all Kobe's fault.

Shaq, for all his ability, was a terribly immature prima donna with an inferiority complex that he covered up by acting like he had a superiority complex. He did become jealous of Kobe, just like Kobe says. Shaq was past his prime, and Kobe was just reaching his. It was time for Shaq to defer to Kobe on the court, as he did to Wade in Miami, rather than try to prolong the era of Kobe deferring to Shaq. Combine this with Shaq's lack of conditioning appropriate to his age, his injuries due to his age, and his ridiculous salary demands, and the truth is that he was hurting the team, or at least not helping the team anywhere near as much as he had in the past. Kobe, Buss, and everyone else had reason to be pissed at him.

Shaq was still a force when he was traded, that's true. But Buss was right to trade him a little to soon rather than a little too late. That way, he got at least some value back for him. If Shaq were still with the Lakers today, what would be his trade value? Not much. If the Lakers hadn't stupidly traded Caron Butler for Kwame, the Shaq trade wouldn't look so bad today.

Shaq was able to defer to Wade in Miami because he had no history with Wade. He had no ego need to be the Man, like he did with the Lakers. At the same time, his ego drove him to finally getin shape, to prove the Lakers wrong for trading him. So, Miami won a title. If Shaq had been grown-up enough to do these things with the Lakers, he wouldn't have been traded, and the players who left might have stuck around for another year, and the Lakers might have won that title instead of Miami.

I'm not saying that Kobe's personality didn't rub Shaq the wrong way. Personality-wise Wade was a better fit for Shaq than Kobe was. I'm just saying that Shaq contributed greatly to his own troubles with Kobe, and that Shaq's attitude made his trade unavoidable.

As for Payton and Malone coming to the Lakers to play with Shaq, they didn't come just for Shaq. If Kobe hadn't been on the team, too, they wouldn't have come. They came to win a champrionship. It was Shaq plus Kobe that attracted them, not just Shaq. In Miami, the players that jumped on the bandwagon there were doing so because of Shaq plus Wade, not just Shaq. They wanted to win a championship, not just play with Shaq. Today, with Shaq a shell of his former self on the court, and some other members of the Heat older as well, their chances of another championship are slim. You'll start to see players leaving there, just like they left the Lakers when we no longer were a hot contender.

Since Shaq's been gone, there have been good players who wanted to come to the Lakers, but the FO didn't do what it had to do to make that possible. And with it becoming more and more apparent that Lakers management is mediocre at best, good players may now want to avoid coming here. But it's not Kobe they're avoiding. It's the Lakers disfunctional Front Office.

Nobody's perfect, and I'm not a Kobe lover. I just don't like seeing the facts twisted to justify Kobe hatred, either.

rationalfan,

Could you make really, really long posts about how KL shouldn't post here on every thread. I mean... wow, that post was so amazing... you had to post it on 2 threads! I mean... the tremendous enjoyment... no... the satisfaction of scrolling past your first LONG post on the first thread was nothing compared to the sheer joy and pride with which I scrolled past your REPOST of the same drivel on this board!

I have a question for you, "rationalfan". Which is worse, the guy who takes up space posting the exact same post over and over again or the guy who posts an opinion you don't agree with but at least puts a little thought and variation into his posts? What's so hard about scrolling past posts anyway? I do it all the time! Try it, it's fun!

Now, back to the "if you support Kobe you have to bash Bynum" debates because apparently, if you are a Kobe supporter, you feel you MUST bash Bynum because... hey, that's what Kobe did! If your Messiah, who is a bad leader (whines when the going gets tough) and acts like a spoiled child when he doesn't get what he wants (but that's because he wants to WIN! and nobody else does, right?) bashes his teammates, so should you!!! Let's drag everybody down, except Kobe, who instigates all of the teammate bashing to begin with... even Shaq never threw Kobe under the bus like Kobe did with Bynum... but... Kobe is up to the challenge and is going to outdo Shaq in EVERYTHING! Feud with a teammate? Angry words? Forget that! Kobe takes it to the next level, badmouthing his teammate in public saying he should have been traded for this guy or that guy. I'm SURE he only did this ONCE, he never, ever, ever said this to anybody else...

just that one time... when he was RECORDED... LOL!

KL- stop trolling please.

Long time Laker fan,

I think Gilbert Arenas is opting out because he's vastly underpaid by league standards. I don't think it's because he's not happy there. I could very well be wrong though.

I was thinking that in a Kobe deal if we could work a three or four team trade we could get back Antwan Jamison as a big salary cap relief and then get two or three really good young prospects. Maybe we can pawn off Vlad in the whole thing as well.

You're good at these kinds of trades, what do you think could be done? What are the Wizards weaknesses?

lakergurl- Getting slapped, wrestled,stomped on doesn't seem to work on this spammer. Real CHEEKY. Reminds me of a school mate desperate to belong and embarrass himself to no end. Truly pathetic.

to be fair , have you considered looking at the points KL is making without getting into an arugment

1) Kobe has not shown himself to be a good leader of the lakers the last 3 seasons- everyone defines leadership in different ways

2) Kobe has in some ways created his own bad situation by wanting a chance to be the #1 guy on the lakers

3) No top free agent has signed with the lakers the last 3 seasons with Kobe being the # 1 guy.

Think about it, are these fair statements?

Kwame Brown you are our saviour. Please lead us to the WCF. We don't need Kobiatch, t all
we need is you Kwame Fist of Fury Brown. Kwame means domination in pig latin.