hariyahu,

So the lakers can use the 20M to get a goto FA named Kobe who would opt out of Chicago?

fkillah,

"Let's not kid ourselves by saying management made the wrong decision in signing Kobe over Shaq. Even Mitch is not that dumb. Shaq right now is an old but expensive Ford pickup truck."

for the record, if given the choice, i'd pick kobe over shaq purely for $$ matters. my gripe is that we had to chose in the first place. had the roles been reversed, i'd be harping on the Big Lazy if [a big "if"] the lakers became mediocre.

i do agree with you that shaq is an old, but expensive Ford pickup truck which will cost a lot, but not get a ton of mileage. if Miami can compete for 1 or 2 more years, i'd say the shaq project was a success. it's going to be no different than when kobe's done with the lakers in 2009. kobe will have 13 years on those shaky knees and will probably want a max contract. the question will be, can kobe propel a mediocre team to a championship like shaq has over and over again? i don't know the answer, but i tend to think "no" unless where-ever kobe ends up, there's already an established #1 and kobe is the super-duper #2 a la Shaq-kobe tandum.

i'd like to add that everwhere shaq has gone, the mediocre team has propelled to a contender status. i'd also like to add that every team that shaq has left became mediocre. hell, even Penny did a better job than kobe after shaq's departure. as i recall, the Magic still had an overall record of .500 or better post-shaq. can you say the same for kobe?

Miguel,

On the Kings-Clippers-Lakers trade.

I like this one a lot better than the Lakers junk + Farmar for Memphis and Minnesota junk. I think it's only a couple of
nudges from being balanced.

It would assume the Clippers have mostly given up on this season, so they're taking two good young
players (Farmar & Turiaf) to throw in alongside Al Thornton to be the future core of the team. If they're
hoping to compete this year, then they won't be giving up Corey Maggette unless it's for a high scoring
PF to replace Brand.

The Kings would want more (if they would do the trade at all). Both Bibby and Artest are near-all-star
quality. Maggette is at that level, but Critter is a rookie, and thus an unknown. And even though Kwame
is an expiring contract, the Kings already have a veteran center (Brad Miller) and a young rookie center
(Spencer Hawes), so they're probably not going to want to take on Kwame. Actually, maybe they would
if it were nearing the trade deadline. If Critter plays as well in the regular season as he did in summer
league, then around the trade deadline Sacto might see Critter and an expiring contract as good value
for Bibby.

KLYeast (the infection),

"let kobe rot and don't make any stupid trades unless the lakers get enough compensation for BOTH kobe and shaq
since it is kobe who's responsible for shaq departure."

---

Good thinking. FORCE Kobe to play out the last two years and opt out. Then the Lakers will have cap space so
they can overpay for a second tier star like Orlando did with Rashard Lewis. WOO HOOO! WOO HOOO! We're
on the mediocrity express, because KLYeast wants Buss to be just as bullheaded as Kobe is. WOO HOOOO!

KLBeast(the real one)

"the question will be, can kobe propel a mediocre team to a championship like shaq has over and over again? "

LOL.

Come on man, don't be so blatantly wrong. Name me ONE time that Shaq has led a mediocre team to a championship?

Here is a list of each time Shaq has been to the Finals:

99-00 Lakers ----------- Great team
00-01 Lakers ----------- Great team
01-02 Lakers ----------- Great team
03-04 Lakers ----------- Great team that ran out of gas in the Finals because of injuries
05-06 Heat ----------- Great team

So, mind taking that one back? :p

-derek

Gunnerd,

I GUESS YOU LOGIC IS IF KOBIATCH HAS AN ALLSTAR TEAM HE CAN TAKE THEM TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

Well, DWade couldn't do it last year. Neither could LeBronze (thus the name). If it happens this year, you know
who's responsible.

LONG TIME KOBIATCH FAN,
"Well, DWade couldn't do it last year. Neither could LeBronze (thus the name). If it happens this year, you know who's responsible."

ARE WE TALKING WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP? OR WE TALKING FIBA TOURNAMENT?

ARE THE SAME TEAMS THAT BEAT THE USA TEAM IN THE OLYMPICS AND THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, PLAYING IN THE FIBA TOURNAMENT?

WELL I GUESS SINCE KOBIATCH IS THE ABA TEAMS OF THE WORLD, HE IS ENTITLED TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. WHAT DO YOU SAY?

KL beast

You already passed the post 8th

LT79 Laker Fan,

"His response to Lakers fans was "Sit tight". All this talk about him wanting to remain a Laker is BS. The river denial definitely is running through this blog."

THANK YOU.

I mean with Rachel Nichol's semi pleasant face "oh i mean there was a lot of misunderstanding..its water under the bridge"

to chris sheridan "The lakers know where I stand--*angry pouty face*"

To Stephen a smith "yeah i want to be traded"

to vic the brick who was drooling all over kobe like he was vida guerra "yeah well i know you love me and i love being loved..so i dont know maybe ill come back""

KOBE IS SELF ABSORBED, FULL OF IT. The reason he spends so much time practicing and working out is because he has no friends nobody to hang out with. There is a good saying..tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are...what do you say about Kobe.

Kobe has never been part of the Lakers. even when winning championships he never hung out with his teammates. Remember that???? Or do you suffer from short term memory???

Kobe runs his own show..and thats why he's a cancer. He may be the best player in the game today. He may work the hardest. He may be the most competitive. Doesnt make him the most impactful, relevant, championship quality player.

TaoSHun

"When Shaq went to Miami, all these guys suddenly appeared and after Wade was given 25 free throws... they won the championship!!! Meanwhile... WHO clamored to join Kobe these last few years? You can certainly put some blame on the front office but you've got to give Shaq credit for openly recruiting for a lot of the guys who came in. "

It seems like a lot of people on this blog have a real short term memory problem. I suggest herbal treatments

They forget that when Miami signed Shaq, Alonzo Mourning came back motivated to win alongside him. Gary Payton followed Shaq to Miami FROM Los Angeles, to win with Shaq and Wade. Antoine Walker and Jason Williams ressurrected their careers in Miami.

Sure those guys are old NOW..and probably less motivated..but at the time they hadnt won any championships so they gave it their best. For all of them talking about Shaq is lazy and old..yeah he is old NOW...and maybe he is less motivated..now that he has one-upped Kobe. He did what he had to do. He won over an entire city in two years.

Its like calling out your older bro or like someone else that already did their thing. Do you say...well damn Jordan couldnt do anything any more...he's getting paid too much now that hes older cant do it by himself.. when you yourself havent even gotten to that level.

I dont see how Kobe can even say anything to Shaq. Sure D-wade carried the Heat to the title. But that wasnt Shaq's point. It wasnt about winning an MVP. He just set the Heat up really good. To be a leader. Because Shaq and Kobe play different positions so you cant compare them, then there wil always be an unwinnable argument as to who was better skilled. But as to who is a leader..that easily goes to Shaq. And where are legends born? In leadership situations.

Kobe's legacy right now is that of Dan Marino, Barry Bonds

Lake Show,

I actually chuckled at that.

AK/BK, or Anybody,

I don't think we're making any trades this off season(unless it's Kobe), so what available FA's do you think we should go after? I've stated many times that I think Ruben Patterson could be had for cheap, and would be a vaulable piece since he can score, rebound, play good defense, AND he shoots a high percentage. I think this is a decent lineup that COULD get to the 2nd round of the playoffs, maybe farther if we stay healthy:

Fisher-Farmar-Crittenton
Kobe-Evans-Coby Karl
Patterson-Luke-Radmanovic
LO-Turiaf-Cook(my favorite player Lake Show)
Kwame-Bynum-Mihm

Better defensively, and offensively(if Patterson can pick up the offense), and we're deeper.

Juno
I'm with you man!!

Tired of all the whiners moaning and bitching about the team.

Trade him... keep him... get rid of that guy for this guy.....................

Either support em or get the hell out!!!

GO LAKE SHOW!!!

Wesjoenixon,

Read your post yesterday halfway on the top of the world, you said it right but as Lktom said it: have faith on the scrubbies, they will be better when the season begins.

I recall we had discussions of the Last Supper painting of Da Vinci sometime ago, well i read that at Pegeant of Arts in Laguna Hills by the end of August will feature a live Last Supper painting oflive characters posed for painting. Talk to you later and have fun.

TaosHum,

I never said that Kobe is always right. Kobe has made some bad choices and said some stupid things, but he has always done
his job over and above the call of duty. He comes back pretty much every year improved from the year before. He works on
his game during the season and during the offseason. And he is one of the top 2 or 3 players in the game right now.

But it's ludicrous to completely blame Kobe for the demise of the Lakers, which is what KL and Gunner and occasionally you
like to do. Kobe has some part in the blame. He didn't always get along with Shaq, and he did indirectly threaten to leave
by opting out of his contract and talking to other teams. But he never specifically threatened to leave the Lakers if Shaq
stayed. Not once.

Shaq also had a lot to do with the Lakers demise. Shaq had several tirades to the media that were no less whiny than
Kobe's recent outburst, but rather than "wah wah I want some good players around me", it was "wah wah I want 30
million dollars a year for several more years." Shaq caught some flak from it at the time, just as Kobe is taking some
flak from the media (and you) right now. Mid-season, Buss offered an extension to Shaq, but Shaq turned it down,
because it would have meant a decrease in pay in the extension years (if I remember right, it was reported as something
like 24 million, while Shaq wanted a contract starting at 30 million and going up!). Then late in the year, Buss pulled the
offer and decided to trade Shaq.

Buss had something to do with the breakup of the dynasty. He could have offered Shaq and extension at the price
he wanted and begged Kobe to stay. If he had done that and Kobe would have left, THEN you could legitimately place
all the blame on Kobe. But Buss didn't offer to break the bank for Shaq. He decided to trade him off while he still had
some trade value and rebuild around Kobe.

Kupchak/Jim Buss had something to do with the demise of the Lakers. They made the Shaq trade that strapped a huge
anchor of Brian Grant's contract on the Lakers payroll. Even so, Caron Butler and Lamar Odom would have been two
nice pieces to build around, but they traded off Caron for Kwame. Furthermore, they gambled that if they tried to free
up cap space, maybe they could lure Yao away from Houston or Amare away from Phoenix. That plan backfired when
both re-signed with their teams.

So there you have it, if you want to place blame for the demise of the most recent Lakers Dynasty, don't try placing it
all on Kobe's back. After all, it's not his job to assemble a team. Yes, he can help by trying to persuade people to
join the Lakers, and he has tried to bring some good players in who wanted to play on Kobe's team (Boozer, Davis,
Artest), which the Lakers weren't able to get done (I don't entirely blame Mitch for that, the team just might not have
had been able to bring any of those players in under the cap). But that's not Kobe's job. Kobe's job is to play point guard
and he does his job VERY well. If you deny that, then you're lying. It's Mitch and the Busses job do decide who to hire,
who to trade for, and who to let go. Thus ultimately, they're much more responsible for Shaq leaving than Kobe is.

By the way, most of the players that went to Miami were through trades. Gary Payton was the only notable person
who voluntarily went to Miami to join Shaq. There was no star still in their prime who took less money than they could
get elsewhere to play with Shaq in Miami. And the Lakers (thanks to the Brian Grant contract) have been over the
salary cap since before Shaq left. With a clever trade or two maybe they could get some cap space next summer,
and if Kobe were to change his tune and say he wants to stay, then MAYBE you'd see a vet or two coming to the
Lakers for less pay to help build a contender.

Hal9000

Interesting observation - "If Kupchak knows that Kobe has told him to trade him or he will opt out - would you still make the LO and Bynum trade for JO?" The short answer is YES. But I wouldn't stop there - in addition to getting JO, I would be aggressively pursuing a Kobe trade, there has to be a deal out there that brings us at least two really good players In other words - tear this freaking train wreck apart and put together a TEAM, one with attitude and competitiveness I know that LO has played through more human tragedy than any human being should - God bless him for that, but on the court - he is just to soft. The best word for Bynum is "potential" or in other words - "hasn't done anything yet" The only way we win is if Kupchak can add a bonafide complimentary superstar next to Kobe - and Kobe stays, or we just nuke this thing and change the cast completely. There is nothing in between, except mediocrity.

"They forget that when Miami signed Shaq, Alonzo Mourning came back motivated to win alongside him. Gary Payton followed Shaq to Miami FROM Los Angeles, to win with Shaq and Wade. Antoine Walker and Jason Williams ressurrected their careers in Miami."

----

Yes, but Shaq wasn't responsible for bringing Mourning, Walker or WIlliams to Miami. They were all traded to Miami (Mourning from New Jersey,
Walker from Boston, and Williams from Memphis). It wasn't like Shaq called those guys on the phone and they talked to their agents and
said, I MUST BE TRADED TO MIAMI NOW! Gary Payton did voluntarily come to Miami to play with Shaq. One player. One very old and
slowing down player, but still effective from time to time.

That's not the same as when the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe - Rick Fox in his prime took a much smaller contract than he could have gotten
elsewhere to join that team. Karl Malone and Gary Payton (both slightly less over the hill) took an MLE and a veteran's minimum to come
join Shaq and Kobe. Those were much more impactful players than Gary Payton two years later and slower.

Rick Friedmman,

" If the other four guys on the floor had the same focus, the same dedication, and played to the best of their ability every second they were in the game the way Kobe does, the Lakers would be champions every season."

Ummm, no they wouldn't......please be less provinical. The Lakers could be beyond focused, more focused than Kobe, and they wouldn't win the championsip every year, or one year for that matter. They wouldn't get to the finals, and probably not the WC Finals.

They're just not talented enough....and other teams try hard too, dont' you think? Or no, they're not the Lakers, so they don't try, they're not Kobe Bryant....

Lebron doesn't try hard, or does he? But his team is in the finals. Duncan, Parker, Nash, Wade, Kidd....they try hard too, but the Lakers trying hard would get them over the top, beat all these guys.

Shucks, if Phil Jackson could just get the to try hard!!!!

10milliondollarzen,

The only team that has a talent-focus-dedication combination that could challenge is San Antonio. LeBron wasn't good enough to hoist the trophy. If the Wizards had stayed healthy, LeBron would have started summer vacation when Kobe did. LeBron's team mates for the most part were not better than the Lakers roster after Kobe. Wade isn't surrounded by more talent. Neither is Kidd.

Don't get me wrong. The team would be stronger if we had acquired Kidd in February. Jermaine O'Neal would have been nice if Larry Bird hadn't been so greedy. Garnett would have been nice, too.

But those kinds of moves are engineered by the front office. Sure, all the haters will come out and blame Kobe for the deals not happening, but anyone who's ever been in management understands that the hater claims are bogus.

Kobe is NOT now and never has been the reason the current Laker teams are not great. Neither is Phil.

Kobe's team mates need to step up. No more excuses.

Laker Larry,

I think I'm stuck in the same archive. Have you found a way out yet?

Clearly, Kobe's legacy isnt that of an MVP caliber. Steve Nash (who i dont like) has surpassed his legacy in three quick years. So has LeBron's and even Dwayne Wade. That's undenaible.

---

No it's not. I deny it. Every one of those players has had better players around them during the past three seasons. Especially Nash. If you put
Kobe on a team with Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Leandro Barbosa, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw and the rest, and he'd be making the NBA Finals
and probably winning it all. Put Kobe on a team with Shaq, Mourning, Walker, Williams, Haslem, Payton and the rest and you get the same result.
The Busses and Mitch put Kobe on a team with Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and not much else.

Note that LeBron and DWade got LESS consideration for MVP than Kobe this season - the current thinking in the NBA is that the MVP is the
"best player on the best team". Kobe can't shoot for Smush, he can't defend for Cook or Rad, he can't catch the ball for Kwame. So until
some of the other players around Kobe start earning their paychecks, Kobe can only do so much. I think Lamar and Luke are the only two
players on the recent Lakers rosters that would have made the regular rotation of the Shaq-Kobe dynasty. Now it's very possible that
one or two of Bynum, Farmar, Evans, Mihm or even Vujacic will improve enough over the summer to elevate the overall level of the Lakers
as a team, but if they don't, I assure you Kobe will be gone next summer and will win MVPs and championships elsewhere (and yes
I did mean a plural of both).

It's really a shame that Kobe isn't more patient. I truly think Bynum and Farmar will be legitimate starters in another year or two, and
adding them to Lamar and Luke means they'd only be an MLE level role player (defensive stopper SF? defending and rebounding PF?)
or two away from being contenders.

Lee,
"The Lakers talent evaluation is poor. They seem to go by the tabloids. They need a real basketball guy in management personnel decisons."

KOBIATCH WANTED TO BE THE MAN SO, THIS IS WHY THIS TEAM LOOKS LIKE IT DOES TODAY. YOU CAN TAKE $20M, RUN SHAQ OFF AND THINK YOU'RE GOING TO KEEP STAR PLAYERS IN LA. THIS BED WAS MADE LONG TIME AGO BY MRS SPEARS HIMSELF.

lalakerlover,
"Taking 2 many 3's is a big part of us not rebounding well. Long rebounds starting breaks for the opponents, and of course notboxing out !"

complements of Kobiatch Bean Bryant on 45 attempts per game.

Kobe's job is to play point guard ...

DOH (following up myself) - I meant shooting guard.

Okay, let's break away from comparing Kobe to others and ruminating about the past three seasons. Let's talk about the future instead.

Which of the following three scenarios for this summer do you think would get the Lakers furthest next season?

1. Stay with the current team
2. Trade Odom, Bynum, and whatever for Jermaine O'Neal
3. Trade Odom for someone else, but keep Bynum
4. Trade Bynum for someone else, but keep Odom
5. Trade Kobe for 2 or 3 good players.

Also, which scenario do you think would get the Lakers to Championship level fastest?

Krzyzewski, who was an assistant coach with the original 1992 Dream Team, saw some parallels between Bryant and a leading member of that team.

"Michael Jordan always will be at a different level from anyone else, but there are similarities," he said. "Kobe plays both ends. If we have to stop a scorer on the wing, we'll put him on him. He can get his own shot any time he wants, he's a hard worker on and off the court and he wants to win so badly.

"He's always doing extra, the guy last to get on the bus. He's never satisfied. In that way, they're very similar."