Andrew Z,
Like I said, everything you said makes sense except for this:
"I believe Kobe should never play another game in a Laker uniform again, and the longer he does the more lasting negative effect it's going to have on the franchise.""

And seems you agree cuz later you say:
"The benefit the Lakers have if Kobe comes to camp and goes through the motions (and really, he wouldn't just go through the motions, he'd compete at a high level) is that his trade value stays high and maybe he relents on his desired destination list. Maybe other teams realize what they could get in Kobe and offer more to the Lakers."

Point being don't advocate that the guy should never don another laker jersey when you still somehow feel he can help your team. He should never play another game for the lakers you say, but then you go hey maybe he should play just a few more so we can get the maximum possible for him, then afterwards we'll officially declare him not worthy of a laker jersey.

Y'all treat my boy like he ain't human, like he ain't got his dreams and his hopes too. Like he ain't human like the rest of y'all complete with his own fallacies. The man won 3 rings but he ain't fit to don a laker jersey cuz of some outburst on TV ... when allow me to say on behalf of Kobe f** y'all. Say what you may about him but he's not quibbing over money and it says a lot about the dude's character that people actually aren't sure if he'd leave 15mil on the table. We argue he might be the best in the game today but he's not even taking home Shaq's paycheck and this is after Shaq took a cut in miami. Yea yea I know he's under a max contract, I'm just saying he's not as bad as y'all make him out to be. And he definately deserves more than a so called LAKER fan saying the dude doesn't deserve to wear the jersey. He clarified it himself, he said this is MY TEAM. Same way I asked mamba24 to put me on the 55 win bandwaggon cuz I'm like even though my man asked to be trade he's still a laker which means on any given night we can still witness greatness.

Kobe is an ultra competitve guy and as much as we all cry that the lakers ain't winning his pain will be like 20 times that. Afterall he's the one putting in all the work and getting up at 4am in the morning. He sees his legacy, and he is terrified it'll endup with retiring a laker without any more rings if the status quo remains the same. Rather than being mad at him or bringing up the past like oh you did this to Shaq, perharps it's time the laker nation let him know that it's ok if he retires without a ring in laker land. That each and every one of you will tell your kids you witnessed one of the greatest lakers ever and that inspite of what the haters will say (ala he never won w/o shaq) that you will remind the world that it was not for a lack of talent but for the love of his team. That when push came to shove he chose retiring a laker over winning else where. That is the only case grateful laker fans should be making in my humble opinion. And if ya ain't singing that song, then trade the dude but at least treat the dude with some kindness, at the end of the day no matter how many tears we shed over Shaq (ala how little we got), I'm glad the lakers handled it like a class act. The kobe situation should be no different.

Kobe is a incredible physical talent.

I just remain unconvinced that he has makings of a team leader.

Sure he's extremely competetive, and works all the more in the gym.

But is he competetive enough to develop as the guy who makes those around him better? Rather than give clear vision and direction to the team, I believe he clouds things and brings confusion:

-He foolishly goes off on Bynum in a parking lot interview
-He is not misunderstood in all his interviews. He is truly confusing.
-All in the same day he wants out of LA and wants to be a laker for life.

His legacy is cementing. I think in the long haul Kobe will be remembered as an enigma. A player who was loaded with on-court ability but could not grasp the essentials of team leadership.

Kobe Apologists,
"I knew right then that the guy he was talking about was none other than Kobe Bean Bryant.
But before I could say another word he hit me with it. “You know it was Kobe,” he said, pounding
home the point he makes to me every time we get on the subject. “That’s why he’s carrying the flag f
or the league right now. Love him or hate him. It’s his show.”

Thanks I needed that.

Andrew Z:

"If you're Mitch Kupchak and Kobe has told you to your face, multiple times, that no matter what you do he still wants to be traded, and if you don't trade me I will opt out in two years, would you make the Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum for JO trade?"

I didn't know you were in the room during their conversations... or do you get your info from the idiot Ric Bucher?

Kobe Apologist,

"the difference between good and great is the guy who is already there pushing himself to take his game to the ultimate level (and I know that doesn’t equate to championships in a team sport, as Kobe knows as well since his Lakers haven’t won a playoff series since Shaquille O’Neal left for Miami). But we’re talking about individual brilliance and how important it is to not only cultivate your game but that competitive fire that you hope burns inside of every gifted athlete"

From one apologist to another, I salute you. What is a great player supposed to do when he is trapped in a team sport? Does he become complacent and accept that in order to become a better teammate he needs to accept losing, he needs to accept that some of his teammates are not as hardworking, and that some are not as talented? Does he try to push them and motivate them? And what if that doesn't work, does he accept and injury ridden season as an excuse when he himself plays through numerous injuries? And what if he feels he is not helping his current team, that in leaving perharps he can help them? Perharps they need a leader that's not as driven as he is? What should he do? Should he ask for a trade if he feels it'll benefit both parties? How does he contain his frustration when the very team he still wants to help fights the trade, they want the world in return for him? Where should his loyalties lie? To thyne self or to thyne team?

I don't have the answers and I don't envy the guy who's got to answer them. It's another damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

"So yea kobe was kewl too but without a doubt this was Shaq's team. But when you have a star-member on your team(ala kobe), being content to be out of shape, to sleep through the regular season and turn it on in the playoffs just makes it that much harder to have that starr pupil tow the line."--TALIQ

TO ALL THE POSERS WHO PRETEND TO BE LAKER FANS AND CONTINUE TO CALL SHAQ "LAZY" AND "FAT":

Might i remind you that the "fat" and "lazy" lable was given my non other than the current kbiatchy LA lone-star who wanted so badly to be the "man in LA" and forcibly taking the team from shaq. Kobe, the Big A$$hole, did everything he could to discredit shaq as the "man" in LA cuz kobe thought (erroneously) that he was responsible for the championship runs. kobe was able to do the things that he did CUZ OF SHAQ. Without shaq, kobe's another all-star who's all show and no go.

Go ahead and pretend that kobe's the second coming of MJ...kobe ain't no MJ, never was and never will be. Kobe is a present-day Dominic Wilkins....haha...$hits and giggles from KLBeast.

Kobe lovers, go home and cry to mommy. You're boy is an embarassment to himself and his cult following.

Did you see kobe on the Rachel Nicols interview? Kbiatching about how he missed being at the top? Well, KLBeast says, if you care so much about being at the top, why be an a$$hole to shaq and drive all of the laker championship squad, including the HOF coach away?

Why?

CUZ YOU'RE A BIATCH KOBE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE AND NOBODY BUT JO WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND OR TEAMMATE. YOUR PRESENT TEAMMATES ONLY TOLERATE YOU JUST LIKE LAKER FANS.

Rest assured, you're cult following (Staples24, Kobe Apologist, etc) will be right on your behind kissing your a$$ whereever you go, so no worries.

Oh, BTW, who's got a ring without the other........THAT'S RIGHT, SHAQ YOUR DADDY!

When Kobe tells the press that "the front office knows where I stand" its pretty obvious what he means. But if it needs to be spelled out here its is:

EITHER:
1) Have Kupchak find some cajones and make a trade that will give me some other strong players on my team like Duncan and Nash have or Ainge just got for the Celtics OR
2)Kick his ass out and put in Jerrry West or Magic or Someone with enough cajones to do it OR
3) Let me the f--- out of here.

NO ONE wins a championship without three strong players. Wilt had West and Goodrich, Magic had Kareem and Big Game James, Bird had McHale and Parrish, Jordan had Pippen and Rodman (league leading rebounder), Duncan has Parker and Genobli ETC etc

Kobe has Odom (perhaps a good #3) and... Kwame?? Luke?? Smush/Fish?? Come ON. We need a third All Star caliber player and we need him NOW. We lost out on KG but if Mitch ain't smart enough to bring in JO (or at least Artest) and Jerry B ain't smart enough to fire Mitch and find someone who can, then we deserve to lose Kobe and become the T-Wolves. Which we will.

I like the concept that a team is not made up of one great player, but rather three. That's a good formula to get it done.

The problem, IMHO, in the Laker situation is that Kobe perceives himself to be the man, the anchor, the leader. But I don't think he's fully wired for that. In fact i think he's got just enough leadership skills to make him dangerous, rather than effective. I think that's what became so annoying to Shaq. Kobe had visions of being the man, but he didn't have the goods to really make it happen.

Kobe's had his opportunity to show his abilities as the team leader. I can list a lot of ways he's been negative in that regard. Can anyone describe some ways that he's had a positive impact as a team leader? Are the guys around him responding or not?

You're not a leader unless people are following you.

Kobe the clown?

Oh yea?

He is the guy who gain more money, counting salary and endorsements.
He is the most popular player in the NBA by far.

Let check the clown tags:

Kazaam, one f the worst movie in the last 20 years.
The rapper career that never was.

Tha Show,

Im with you brother. I totally agree, make the Bynum/Odom deal for JO already

tha show,

I think that works for a hypothetical.

In all honesty, if Mitch knows Kobe is going to leave in two years if not traded and has been told by Kobe himself that he wants to be traded no matter what, I go ahead and make the LO/Bynum for JO trade. Why the hell not? This team isn't going to be leaps and bounds better than they were last year. They should improve and slowly and steady for years afterwards, but I don't think they have the type of young talent with an extremely high ceiling (i.e. Portland, Seattle, Memphis) so what you're looking at is a developing cast of role guys. That's not bad, but you need them around All-Stars.

So I trade for JO, stir up the media circus again, and see how the team goes. I think right off the bat we're better.

At this point the safe and steady route isn't paying off very big dividends, why not blow it up? If Kobe does opt out after two years you only have one more year on JO's contract so it's not that big of a risk. Hell, if Kobe still goes nuts and you HAVE to trade him you have an All-Star big man to put around what would be some really good pieces you would get in a Kobe deal.

I'm rambling in all honesty, I just wanted to be clear that I agree with you. I just think Kupchak and Buss haven't done anything risky because of what Kobe has told them, that's the only way I can justify it. Anything else doesn't make sense.

Jorema,
"Kazaam, one f the worst movie in the last 20 years."

LOL! LOL!

The "El segundo guys" who are sended hear to blame the lack of talent of this team on Kobe, are just clueless.

They thing that because Kobe said he should handle different this situation that their
"PR- buy a la carte -of trashing Kobe" is the reason he is taking responsability for the bad manage
of this situation in the press. They think that, TJ Simers diatribes, Bloggers flooding comments criticizing him
are doing marvels for them...

That shows how ingenuous and silly is their way of thinking.

Kobe is just manipulating the press to his benefits. Kobe is a master doing it.
Now TJ Simers is sad because fans are naming him the # 1 enemy of the Lakers.
Now LA FANS will blame Lakers office, not Kobe, if they don't make changes.
If the same team wins, Kobe will take the glory.

As a matter of fact. Kobe had turned himself in a celebrity "a la Beckam".
Anything he does or say is first page newspapers.
Nobody can challenge his "best player in the game" trone.
NBA tried to undermine him with "the elbowgate", and fans in NY and Boston responded
applauding him furiously.
Shaq and Phil never won the battle of public opinion against Kobe.
Lakers brass had tried this summer, and they are scared.

So, when they hear Kobe apologizing for the handling of his revolt publicly...they think the battle is already won
against Kobe.

Wait to see...before the summer end.
If Kobe isn't traded. Lakers brass will run for their lives. Jerry Buss will be entered to a rehabilitaition center
and fans will revolt each game calling Mitch and Jim Buss head.

Wait and see...what is coming will be interesting.

AK/BK,

So happy together, LOL. Nice video. Although, I would say this one just might be a little better for a good laugh.

Luke Walton anybody?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

I wonder who taught him his only dance move? haha, good laugh.

-Derek

Mamba24

Kazaam is so bad that still remain one of the most used punchline references in comedy world.
Always associated with ideas of mediocrity, dumbness and silliness.

Shaq desires of perdurable and perpetual fame is already obtained.

In 2005 AK wrote this post about Lamar Odom.
He was right then, still right now.

"There's no doubt in my mind that Odom has the pure talent to be a 20+ point guy (regardless of the reasons why he isn't, perhaps a topic for a future "Lamar Odom" Watch). But what I'm wondering is why anyone expects more, given he's never been a consistently big scorer in the first place. Obviously, he needs to be taking more than 7-9 shots a game, but that's beside the point, really. Odom may very well be an "is what he is" kinda guy. And if you think 15-17 pts per contest doesn't a #2 option make, then maybe he isn't the guy to be "the guy."

Which leads to my question: Is there somebody else that should be assuming that role? Is anybody else even capable? I'm not positive, but my immediate thought is "no." Smush would appear the logical choice, but he has no track record of producing at this level for an entire season. That definitely doesn't mean he can't, but he's also playing out of his skull compared to the rest of his career, so expecting more may be a pipe dream. Cookie's shooting the ball well lately, but he can't do much more than spot up, which makes him a tough sell. Plus, his defensive liabilities make it hard to keep him on the court long enough to produce. Mihm can't stay on the court long enough, period. Devean George has never been a consistent enough to be a #5 option, much less #2.

And those are probably the most realistic choices."

Miguel, that sounds workable. I dont know if it will make our team better for the playoffs, but at least some Laker news is better than no Laker news. CUPCAKE should use the trade machine. He's on VACATION?! Why does anyone in Laker upper management deserve a vacation?? Does Pat Riley take vacations? Why do we keep hearing rumors out of Miami and nothing from the Los Angeles? I can see how Kobe is frustrated. We don't hear anything from Shaq since his team is trying to get better every weak.

The FO put together a great team.

Then Kobe and Shaq started their antics.

Shaq and his public, immature demands for a raise.

Kobe and his desire to be the man.

Chaos ensued.

Shaq and Kobe held the FO by the short hairs.

Shaq goes to the Heat.

The Busses decide to sell out to Kobe.

It's never been the same since.

fkillah - I agree its gotten to the Kobe its a no win situation for Kobe. It just bugs me he is so inconsistent.

He had said he didnt want to talk about the Lakers until after this tournament- ok i can accept this and even his reaction to TJ to some degree if that was the basis of it

Then he talks to Jim Hill.

I just have gotten to the point nothing his says has any validity to me. Sad.

Hey Wasabi, thanks for the reply.

If that trade would get done then we can trade Juwan Howard and 08 1st round pic for Artest or Juwan howard and Turiaf for Maggete or something like that.

Then New Line Up would be

Fisher/Stoudamire/C.Karl
Kobe/Evans/Critt
Artest or Maggette/Luke/M.Jaric
L.O./S.Swift
Bynum/Mihm/Sign Webber or Vet at minimum

Better Line up than the past years.
Id Say improvement and have 4 headed monster in
Kobe, Artest or Maggette, L.O. & Bynum...
4 to compete against Celtics 3 and the Suns.

AZ,

completely agree with your "action" theory.

why isn't "jermaine o'neal to the lakers" the hot gossip in the league right now? i don't see it on hoopsworld, rumor sites, etc. jermaine o'neal tried to revive negotiations - to no avail.

not a damn thing is happening.

jimmy buss is probably enjoying some booger sugar with his pops at hugh hefner's spot...

...while jeanie has her face buried in phil's lap, mitch kupchak is currently too busy playing clark griswold in europe...

kobe was right, the front office is a mess.

damn.

Here's a trade scenario that will please Kobe-haters, Kobe-lovers and Laker fans alike:

http://tinyurl.com/35yeuy

For Kobe-haters:
Need I say any more - no more Kobe !

For Kobe lovers:

Here's what the Bulls squad looks like:

C: Ben Wallace, Michael Doleac
PF: Joe Smith, Joakim Noah
SF: Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni
SG: Kobe Bryant, Salim Stoudemire
PG: Thabo Sefolosha, J-Crit

While a little thin in the backcourt, that's a decent squad with a solid #2 in Deng that can prolly ride a motivated Kobe to a decent showing in the playoffs. If they can a get a couple of decent FAs with the veteran's minimum (PJ Brown, Charlie Bell, Adonal Foyle etc.), they can certainly make some noise - especially if Thabo and J-Crit live up to the hype.

And for Laker fans:

We give up Kobe, J-Crit, Farmar and Radman, but look at what we get:

C: Andrew Bynum, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown
PF: Lamar Odom, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook
SF: Josh Smith, Luke Walton, Viktor Khryapa
SG: Ben Gordon, Mo Evans, Sasha Vujacic
PG: Kirk Hinrich, Derek Fisher, Jason Williams

Expiring contracts: Kwame Brown, Jason Williams, Viktor Khryapa - that's $20M!!

Gordon + Hinrich + Smith should more than adequately make up for Kobe's offensive output, while picking up the defensive ability of the team as a whole. While we may not become contenders overnight, we will definitely give the Suns, Mavs and Jazz a run for their money.

Only issue I see is with the lack of a true #1/go-to guy. We'll have to depend on Lamar to be the leader of this unit, but for a "rebuilding" team, we'll be pretty darn good! We'll have 5 All-Star caliber starters, and I suspect we'll be okay from a marketability standpoint.

And those TWENTY MILLION $$$ in cap space should only help us a get a top-notch FA soon!!

What do you think?? Any issues with this trade?

THE LAKERS FRONT OFFICE IS NOT CHEAP, THEY’RE STUPID!!

For all of you who scream and yell about Dr. Buss being cheap or not spending the money needed to win a championship, you are mistaken. He spends the money. The Lakers have one of the higher payrolls in the league and are not only over the cap but in the luxury tax.

What the front office is guilty of is spending unwisely. They have put the majority of their money into the wrong places. Here are some of the top teams’ best players and what they make (in millions). Let me know which teams highest paid players seem to be just a tad bit below the level of the others:

San Antonio
Duncan $19
Parker $10.5
Ginobli $9
$38.5

Dallas
Nowitzki $16.4
Howard $9
Terry $8.3
$33.7 (Also have Dampier at $8.6 million)

Phoenix
Marion $16.4
Stoudamire 13.8
Nash $11.4
$41.6

Lakers
Kobe $19.5
LO $13.5
Kwame $9
$42

Boston
KG $23.8
Pierce $16.4
Allen $16
$56.2

Now, I’m not the utmost expert on NBA basketball, but I can pick out the “big three” that is on a completely different level (and not a good level) than the rest. Now, the way I see it is the Lakers either need to eliminate 1,2, or all three of these big deals and replace them with players that deserve the high salaries. Obviously, this also shows that Kobe is probably one of the most “underpaid” players in the league, so common sense would be to not move him. Next, is LO and his salary. What kind of value are the Lakers getting there? You have Amare Stoudamire making about the same amount, with Steve Nash and Tony Parker making less. There’s definitely a discrepancy in that regard. Then we get to the biggest mistake this side of Brian Grant’s contract, Kwame Brown. If there is a bigger waste of money in the league, please show me. Kwame Brown makes the same amount of money as Josh Howard, Manu Ginobli, and more than Jason Terry. Does he sound like he belongs in that group based on how they impact a game? I don’t think so.

As you can see, the Lakers front office is spending the money; they are just being stupid about it. Lamar should be making $9-$10 million a year and Kwame should be getting $3-$5 million. If the Lakers can improve where they spend the bulk of their money, they will be back in contention in no time.

Think Mitch and company can pull that off?

One more point I want to make. If you remember the blogs from last year before the season started. Almost everyone was on the 55 WIN BANDWAGON. Everyone was excited about the up coming season, all the predictions and all the hype. I remember the first few months, all we read about is how good this team was, how Kobe is so good in making everyone better as season progresses. People were commending him about his assist and his leadership ability.
Well, members of the "2006-2007 55 WIN BANDWAGON", things didn't go our way. We had some major injuries. We had some coaching issues when he had to put Mo Evans starting, VladRad starting the game and Ronny Turiaf starting the game. We had some chemistry issue when he had to put these guys together. During close games which we could have won using our starters to finish game, instead we had Turif, Mo Evans, Kobe (Or who ever wasn't hurt at that time), we had Vlad Rad hitting the final shot. Common, I am sick aof the talks about Kbe being this, Kobe being that. I am sick of the bloggers who can't let the Shaq deal go. Let that one go coz he ain't coming back. He was a big part of the Championship and so is Kobe. So is the team that we had. We had some veterans that we could count on during the playoffs. Here are the vets that helped us win championship:
Robert Horry (still doing at San Antonio), Horace Grant, Brian Shaw, DFish, Rick Fox (who like Fish have a heart of a champion), Ron Harper, and Glen Rice. These players aren't impact players, but they are role players who has some veteran experience from a winning Teams like the Bulls, Rockets.
What we have now are young players and some veterans who would have been an impact player if they weren't hurt. I don't like any trades right now to get rid of the nucleus that would bring this team many more championship in the near future. We could have gotten someone else last year with the amount of money we paid VladRad, but again we have a Mitch Kupcake. So all in all I think if we look back to our inner self, we all know that this team is good. Some of you are just getting to involved with the kobe issue and that is affecting your ability to recognize the good things about this team.
As I said it before I believe that this team will be a good team this year, and with a few minor tweaks and addition this year we will be better. We did that if we add another vet that is proven... then good. But to do a blockbuster deal that will give the Lakers the short end of the stick once again (Shaq Deal), then that doesn't make any sense.
Enjoy the up coming season and watch out for this team. Lakers will be good and you haters will be back, riding Kobe again. Cheers!!!

GO LAKERS!!!
Juno The Believer

TaosHum,

if kobe still wants out, why does he refuse to say it?

it's because he doesn't. he effed up by going public, and even he realizes it.

his words rang true, but he the way he expressed those words couldn't have been more wrong.

kobe has publicly said to ship bynum's ass out (when it came to jason kidd). and he has publicly said jermaine o'neal would be a big time addition.

so for us to sit here and not be sure where kobe stands is ludicrous.

give kobe and phil the NECESSARY tools to win/contend for titles AND THEY WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN.

i've written this several times, quit asking phil & kobe for a steak dinner and giving them a pack of 99 cent franks to do it with.

that's what i think. for whatever it's worth. which is nothing.