ex

"So next time, before you click "post" while complaining about someone else's intelligence, you might want to check the spelling of "Mathematics"."

perhaps i need a remedial class in english?

hal9000,
"Why should I get on the 55 win bandwagon when the Lakers have not made any significant trades and have yet to acquire JO, their last good option?"

Because Lamar is going to have a breakout season, Crit is going to be ROY, which will be really amazing because he will get hardly any playing time since Fisher is comeback player of the year and Jordan Famar wins the assist title, Kwame will develop hands, and a jump shot (and get a 10 year, 20M per year extension), Luke Walton will lead the league in three point shooting percentage, and be named to the All Defensive Team, Bynum will do a Vulcan mind-meld with his mentor, causing Kareem to henceforth be known as "the first Andrew Bynum", and Kobe will lead the league in scoring again. (But KL will still complain because he had fewer assists than his own point guard.) Oh, and Jeannie Buss will mud-wrestle the Lakers Girls at half-time of Game Seven of the Finals.

mamba,

we arent immune to the bite or brainsucking thereof a zombie. that said, we are much faster than one so it rare for us to get caught. i heard from a friend of a friend' cousins brother removed three times from said friend's sister's boyfriend that a wolf smelled something that smelled like chicken (or jerky) and went to eat it and it was a zombie who was on fire! the wolf got bit and turned into something that looked like those dogs from resident evil! last i heard, they hang out together pulling that trick on unsuspecting people and wolves. i am immune to thier trickery though.

i really have to stop eating mushrooms....

tha show, those same New Jersey Nets who have Jason Collins at Center and made it to the finals in the INFERIOR Eastern Conference? You put that team out West and the Clippers without Brand and Livingston will thump on them...

Look at the Dallas roster. They were able to bring in youth to combine with veterans with some good success. They were badly outcoached in the playoffs, do you think Phil Jackson is going to get outcoached? Why can't we build around the youth we have? We have some GOOD youth now, people can't bash Mitch for drafting Turiaf, Bynum, Walton in the 2nd round, Crittenton, or even Farmar. You HAVE to have role players, not everybody can be a star. I'm sure you guys would have shipped Bruce Bowen out after his first year but - doesn't he fill a role for San Antonio? We've got some good pieces. We've had some bad luck, especially with the Vlad Rad signing. We could have gotten lucky with say, the Shammond Williams signing, like Raja Bell has found a home with Phoenix but you never know until you throw those guys out there and see what they do.

It's just a shame how everyone wants the quick fix and nobody is willing to "build" anything anymore... even if it's for such a short period of a year or two... I mean... my God... we were in the finals in 2004, rebuilt on the fly with a really bad contract hanging over us (Brian Grant's) and you guys expect to be back in the finals 3 years later?

KL BEAST:

As you wish. From now on, no caps, except for ocasional emphasis. Thanks for the welcome. I apologize for the personal attacks, but your nonsensical KB bashing really irritates me. Usually, the only person that can get me that riled up is my chick nagging me. You guys have a lot in common--you both have what appears to be an aversion to reason. Or maybe, your act is all part of some subversive agenda to irritate lurkers to the point where they become active participants in this blog.......in which case, kudos. You're still weak though.

MICHAEL H:

Great post, with good points. Thanks for the objective well written reply. I'll briefly address some of your points.

"1. The Lakers are not keeping Bynum a secret from the rest of the league. He played over 20 minutes a game last year and was scouted just like the rest of the league. And still unlike yourself, most scouts and GM's remain high on him."

Reply: We're both speculating on this point. Because the Lakers are now actively considering trading Bynum, I have to believe that they do not want him risking injury or risking having him get abused by D-league talent in the summer league. So I think they are "hiding" him. Also, Bynum did not average 20 min per game for the entire season. He had conditioning issues that would have prevented that. You must be referring to the beginning of the season where he did get significant minutes and played well for about a stretch of 18 games.

Look, we're both laker fans. The problem as I see it is that we both look at Bynum differently. A glass half full/half empty situation. You see Bynum as a probable all star center and future very good player/ defensive anchor. You construe any positive signs of development from Bynum as proof and reinforcement of your belief. Whereas I see Socks as the guy that management has turned into a political pawn within the organization (no fault of his own), as the guy who we are told to wait on, and as the guy who is preventing players such as Jason Kidd and Jermaine O'Neal from being here. It's just a matter of perspective my friend.

"2. 3rd yr players rarely play in the summer league. Usual only bubble players and vets looking for a job play in the summer league if they are not 1st or 2nd yr."

Reply: This is incorrect. You can't say 3rd year players "rarely" play in the summer league. You may be correct if you had said "usually don't play". Teams require their young deveolping 1st and 2nd year payers to participate in the summer league, but they usually give their promising 3rd year and higher players the option to participate (see Nate Robinson (Knicks) and Louis Williams (76ers)), and those players frequently dominate. What I'm saying (again this is speculation) is that the Lakers didn't even bother mentioning the Summer League to Bynum for the above reasons. You can not seriously and with a straight face tell me that the kid couldn't use the work and experience he would have got in Vegas. It would have only benefited him. But the reason you didn't see him is because Kobe indirectly exposed (not too tactfully I might add) to the rest of the league what alot of us were already thinking, that the kid is overrated. If Bynum went to summer league and underperformed, it would have had a devasting impact on his trade value. The Lakers know this, and therefore he wasn't in Vegas.

"3 I know he only played 2 summer league games but Oden got smoked. Oh Andrew was on 17 his first summer."

Reply: Pop in the tape of last year's NCAA championship game and then tell me that Socks is the better player right now. You can't rely on your argument that NBA GMs and scouts currently fawn over Bynum and then discount those same NBA GMs and scouts that peg Oden as the second coming. This is besides the point. My main issue with Socks is not his skill set, it's his intangibles. Oden and Socks are the same age. Oden has the intangibles, Socks doesn't. Age can no longer be used as an excuse for Bynum.

"7 This brings us to emotion. I remember watching Kareem. And Kareem was possibly the most business like player I have ever watched. And Andrew is his pupil. How do you think Kareem reacted to Andrew pushing Shaq. I wouldnt be surprised if Kareem ripped him a new one and lectured him on professionalism. I mean, think Tim Duncan. The only time you ever see much emotion out of him is when they call a foul on him."

Reply: Good point, and Tim Duncan is a great example of an unemotional and highly effective player. However, the intangibles that I speak of, the same ones that Bynum lacks and Duncan has, are 1) heart (playing hurt, sick, or tired), 2) work ethic (training on your own accord w/out being told to do so), and 3) desire to be great (an empty desire w/o a work ethic). These are all character traits which usually don't develop in direct proportion to basketball skills. Most of the time they're innate. You may be right when you say that Bynum just needs to mature a little bit and these things will take care of themselves. However, like I said above, the problem with Bynum is that we, as Laker fans, do not think we have the luxury of waiting on Bynum at the expense of KB.

"I do not know if Andrew will ever become a franchise type player. But I can say with some confidence that he will become a very good one. Better then most of the centers in the league. And if you do not think that has value, look at how much 7 foot stiffs make in the NBA. I also have a feeling that we will watch him grow this year and with Larry Bird being Larry Bird it will probably be with the Lakers, which may turn out not to be a bad thing."

Reply: I guess we'll see, and if we don't move Bynum--I hope you're right.

taoshum,

i think if the front office was trying no one should be complaining.do you feel they are?? the lakers were in position to make the proper adjustments to be competitive, but they decided to experiment. caron for kwame? bynum instead of grainger? smush? who could argue that if the lakers was paying attention they wouldnt be better off? therein lies the frustration.

JJ,

If you do leave, just remember to take that whine with you...oh yeah and those trades too.

Haha go to the Lakers forum and gold thing and talk to that Tom guy who claims to be related to someone in the front office. He and you seem to be on the same page.

BIRD DID NOT DRIVE THE PRICE UP!

Bird actually put the price lower by not including Troy Murphy. TAKE THE DEAL NOW!
As much as I Iike Bynum, he is to be sacrifice to get the true and proven Jermaine Oneal. Bynum's sacrifice is the result of KWAME BROWN"S failure. Mitch and JIMBO did well in drafting Bynum, but did very bad in taking KWAME (but we all thought Kwame had potential, we were all wrong!). This is exactly why we need JO what Kwame should had provided, low post presence at both ends of the floor!

KWAME BROWN IS THE CAUSED OF ALL THE LAKERS PROBLEM!

NOT SHAQ LEAVING, NOT MITCH, NOT PHIL, DEFINITELY NOT KOBE! Simply Kwame and Smush!

AL JEFFERSON HAD HUGE POTELTIAL, GERALD GREEN HAS HUGE POTENTIAL, RYAN GOMES HAS HUGE POTENTIAL, NO. 5 DRAFT PICK HAS HUGE POTENTIAL, DRAFT PICKS NEXT YEAR HAS HUGE POTENTIAL.... BOSTON GAVE IT ALL UP.... WHO THEY HAVE NOW!!!!!!!! TRUE AND PROVEN!!!!!!!! Pierce, Allen, Garnett!

Jermaine Oneal and Kobe Bryant are true and proven! Both entering their prime at 28! Kwame Brown's contract expiring next year which give us the opportunity to sign a FA. We still have tons of role players MIHM

Bynum and Odom for Oneal should be a LOCK for the Lakers!

JJ
"By the way....if you couldn't tell......this is my final post on this blog. Yes....I am finally going to take a few people up on their offer and move to another blog where my kind of blogging is the norm. "

ADIOS! OBVIOUSLY, B-BALL WAS YOUR SECOND FAVORITE SPORT. BECAUSE IF YOU'RE THAT SENSITIVE, YOU DEFINITELY NEVER PLAY THIS SPORT.

fearless/kobe apologist

"It isn't just O'Neil. Davis. Kidd. Artest. KG. Any one of those would have made a major impact on this team. And who would care if nobody else wants to play with him? All of them are ON RECORD as saying they want to play with Kobe. You can listen to the dang Pod Casts if you want."

as far as i can tell only JO's on the record. all those other guys are just blowing smoke. nice try.

oh, BTW, how many players of stature have joined the lakers since 2004? not to be a hater and drink "haterade" from the cooler, but JO isn't exactly a great player. he was okay at Sacramento and Indiana, but i don't think of JO as an impact player.

I STILL ASSERT THAT NOBODY OF STATURE* WANTS TO PLAY WITH A MALCONTENT KOBE BRYANT

*JO excluded

KLBeast "i'll take winning."

I could not agree more! I think your rep on here may be undeserved, you seem to be more lucid than many on here......though I like #24 a bit more than you do obviously.

Mamaba24/10:

I applaud your enthusiasm and your energetic posts (for the most part) however....I just can't believe you honestly feel the 55 win bandwagon has a snowball's chance with this roster.
I think any sane Laker fan knows in his heart that KLBeast has the over/under about right - 45 wins at this point. Even when last years team got off to the great start (home loaded early sked) they were never a threat to win more than 50!

On topic - I really think that Artest should be the guy we are going after, Indy wants too much for JO and he's making close to 20 mil so we would end up in luxury tax hell for years and probably lose LO in two years anyway!

Let's solve the SF position and get some better perimeter D on this team! If the Laker's could actually play D next year we could think about 55 wins - then I am on that bandwagon, but show me the commitment to team D first!!

Maybe the K's could organize a soapbox derby!!

(Generic, that's a race, not a hat made out of cheap wood.)

LakerBake:

I am guessing you put my name at the end of your post because I have always been very high on the potential of Andrew Bynum, who I believe will become one of the top centers in the NBA in two or three years. I know you and many other bloggers have become disenchanted with Andrew after his lackluster second half of the season. I also was not happy with Andrew’s effort and his attitude the second half of the season and thought he played without passion and was disrespectful at times. I blame much of that behavior on Phil Jackson, who I thought was far too lax on Smush Parker and Brian Cook for their poor attitudes and antics, which set a very bad example for Andrew. Assuming that he is not traded, I expect to see a dramatically improved, matured, and motivated Andrew Bynum take the court this year.

To me, I still go back to Andrew’s defining moments when challenged by Shaq in his rookie year. How Andrew responded to Shaq’s bullying showed me that he has the heart to be a superstar player in the NBA. As a nineteen year old kid playing with and against grown men, Andrew just needs to have strong guidance and leadership from his coach to help him develop his potential. I am confident that he will get that from Phil this year, who will surely not allow any Smush-like behavior to occur unpunished this year. He lost the team last year and he knows it. Andrew should be our starting center this year barring a trade and I think he will average a double-double (15-10) with 3 assists and 3 blocks per game and a solid 20 to 25 minutes a game.

Despite how high I am on Bynum, I still am willing to trade him in order to get Jermaine O’Neal provided we do not have to include Lamar in the deal. For me, it’s a case of trading future greatness to mollify Kobe and keep our promise to build a championship team around him now while he is in his prime. I love what I am hearing from JO. I also agree with you that JO was NOT a bust when he was with the Blazers. He showed great potential. In fact, I was really surprised when Portland traded him for Dale Davis. JO was really the back up to Arvydas Sabonis, the Blazers Russian center who was at one time a true superstar player, and not so much Rasheed. When I saw JO come into the game, I was always impressed with his hops and athleticism and specifically remember him blocking shots on the inside and playing tough defense.

Right now, JO is an experienced player who can give us a lot more help becoming an elite team than Andrew can. Down the road, I still believe Andrew will become a dominant center and much more valuable player than JO. We just need the help that JO can give us right now more than worrying about down the road. But if we don’t trade for O’Neal, I have no problem going into the season with the current roster, although I wish we could trade Cook and Kwame for Ron Artest as we still need help defensively at small forward.

Tom

bob:

lol. You know you don’t need to see any preseason games. It’s a matter of “Faith.” You just have to believe in the power of purple and gold. Despite Jim Buss! Despite Mitch Kupchak! Despite Kobe’s rants! In the end, God is a Lakers fan and good things will be coming around. DFish was just the first move by the almighty. Sending KG to Boston and now JO to the Lakers was just a way for the big man in the sky to resurrect the great days of the Lakers and Celtics celebrated history. Join now, bob. You don’t need any preseason games or your hubby’s OK. lol.

Tom

JJ

Let me add my name to the list of those who are asking you to stay on the blog. You have always been one of the smartest and literate posters on the blog and we need you to offset some of the haters. I did the same thing as you about two months ago in protest to the haters but AK held my post and asked me to reconsider. I did and am glad that I did. While I still get frustrated by all of the negative posts, I have to admit that there is no better place to satisfy our Lakers jones other than this blog. Hope you stay. I know that I and many other of the old time posters appreciate your presence and contributions. So think about it. Otherwise, thanks for all of the thoughtful posts you have made in the past. You were appreciated.

Tom

ex:

I do believe that Andrew will become one of the top centers in the league in two to three years. I think he has some of the softest hands of any big man I have seen. His problem is that he didn’t grow up playing basketball and thus still lacks some of the natural instincts for the game that players who grew up playing possess. But his height and length and natural talent are obvious to me and I think to the other general managers who would like to pry Andrew away from the Lakers. The real shame is that we need to deal him now to get help while Kobe is in his prime.

I think Andrew made tremendous growth from his rookie to second year, but then fell prey to a lack of conditioning and the post-injury post-failed-Kidd-trade blahs that infected Kobe and the entire team. If he makes the same level of jump this year and can sustain his play for the entire season, we will have a center that averages a double-double with 3 assists and 3 blocks per game. And that will be in just his third year in the league at the tender age of 20 – his birthday was 10/27/87. I am eager for preseason to begin so we can all see how Andrew looks.

Tom

Blkthght06:

Here is how we can trade for JO and still keep LO:

Since the Lakers are over the salary cap, they can “acquire up to 125% plus $100,000 of the salaries they are trading in a simultaneous trade.”

See NBA Salary Cap FAQ http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#68

If the Lakers send Indy Andrew Bynum ($2,172,000), Kwame Brown ($9,075,000), Brian Cook ($3,500,000), and Jordan Farmar ($1.009,560), they will be sending total salaries of $15,756,560. They will then be able to acquire up to 125% of that amount plus $100,000, or $19,795.70 in order for the trade to meet salary cap rules.

Since JO will earn $19,710,000 next year, the Lakers will be able to take him back for the four players listed above. Note they can include draft picks and up to $3,000,000 in cash but neither can be used to calculate total salaries.

Tom

LT70 - Jersey would never make that trade. There's simply no way that adding Kobe but removing Carter and Jefferson makes them better. I haven't checked the contracts, they might get a little cap relief, but it would be minimal. I don't see the motivation for the Nets.

Why don't the Pacers make the trade already? JO has basically said that he is going to opt out of his contract next year anyway, so they will basically get nothing in return for him if they don't trade him this year. Bynum, Brown, and someone else would be fair market value for JO, given that he is going to opt out of his contract next year and they will get squat in return. I really don't know what the Pacers are waiting for. They must be doing crystal meth with the rest of the yolkles.