Kobe and O'Neal II: Electric Boogaloo?
That's the talk on the street right now. But will such a sequel, this time a pairing of Kobe Bryant and Jermaine O'Neal, come to fruition (and will it match a level of sequel excitement that's 100% Ice-T approved)? The issue remains up in the air. For that matter, what O'Neal actually said in regards to his desire to relocate West is also being debated, mostly by the man himself. While attending an L.A. charity hoops game, O'Neal let it be known that he'd be more than cool with a trade that paired him with the Mamba, that he'd opt out of his contract in a season if things don't pick up in Pacer Land, and even played a little backseat G.M., saying he doesn't want to play for a new team that's been gutted, a likely scenario if Larry Bird gets his way.
Well, maybe he said all that, because O'Neal was pretty quick to clarify and/or soften stances. For starters, it's not a trade "demand," per se. Just a concept that he's open towards. As for the critique of Larry Legend (who issued a statement of his own), JO maintains those words never even left his mouth. In any event, the Lakers (and maybe even Kobe) would consider moving Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum as a solid example of "gutting," which is reportedly the root of any holdups.
And finally, for any Laker fan losing sleep over the notion that a divorce would prevent Rick Fox from ever appearing on "Ugly Betty" with his ex, you're now back to getting eight hours a night again.
(Also, we're on the road again today, but we've let mission control know. Hopefully, the comments will go through at a reasonable clip.)
So if the ex-Celtics are not going to give the Lakers an even deal, why are so many of you critical of Mitch for not making a deal with an ex-Celtic? You're not making any sense.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 07:47 PM
EX
"Point Guard – Derek Fisher, Javaris Crittenton, Coby Karl
Shooting Guard – Kobe Bryant, Maurice Evans
Small Forward – Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Vladmir Radmanovic
Power Forward – Nenad Krstic, Ronny Turiaf, Brian Cook
Center – Chris Webber, Chris Mihm, Jason Collins
I guess we weren't slow and unathletic enough last season"
Hahahahaha well said!!!
Whoever is thinking that we want to trade Andrew Bynum and Kwame for Kristic and Collins and signing Webber (JJ) are OUT OF YOUR MIND. This is why Buss hasnt fired Kupchek cuz loonies like you would be doing trades like this.
C-Webber's prime was 5-6 years ago. Kristic isnt athletic (why do you think the Nets want to trade him??) and Collins?? He will be theo ratliff pretty soon..
You know you guys must really hate Bynum and Kwame not to realize that they are both much more athletic than C-Webb, Kristic or Collins.
You think thats the answer to Kobe???
ATL Lakerfan,
"Moving without the ball is something this team needs to learn how to do better. Is that on Kobe? Given that he's not a point guard, NO.
As the leader of the team, should he look to give advice on what to do to improve upon that? YES.
Does he do it? YES "
I dont know why moving without the ball is a point guard role..thats just basketball knowledge in general. So its everybody's role, maybe actually the coaches role, so I put that on Phil Jackson. But as for Kobe, I'm not sure when you see him move without the ball unless its about posting up or trying to get a three pointer. One thing that Kobe does not do that catches the ire of many fans is that HE DOESNT set picks, unless he wants the ball back, he doesnt act as a decoy, and when he gets the ball, the Lakers can run around all they want but he wont look for them if its not a layup.
So does he do it? No.
Posted by: The Lake-Show | August 07, 2007 at 07:49 PM
Lakers Blog Mission Control,
Were you given instructions by AK/BK to omit all my posts while they're on the road and I'm abroad?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 07, 2007 at 07:50 PM
Fakerz,
"By understanding the source of the information and their agenda, you can save yourself a lot of 'ups-and-downs' when trade speculation is discussed. A lot of what you hear is just posturing and positioning. This instance is not much different."
WOW. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO READS BETWEEN THE LINES.
Yeah Baron Davis would love to play in L.A. too. BECAUSE HES FROM LA. All this "I love Kobe" crap is insane. Dude, I would love to play for the Lakers...doesnt mean I love Kobe. Paul Pierce would love to play for the Lakers, Tyson Chandler..guys from L.A...and Jason Kidd loves california. And Chris Webber probably just wants to get apperances on the Tyra Banks show, Ron Artest would love to record an R&B album,
For all you that are pining for Jerry West...remember Shaq came to LA in the midst of his dreams for Hollywood too. It was almost a given that Shaq was coming to LA to pursue a rap career and a movie career (Kazaam, Steel, etc)
Posted by: The Lake-Show | August 07, 2007 at 07:59 PM
Longtime Laker fan,
"Kobe makes negative comments about his GM and he's a backstabbing
bad guy. J.O. makes negative comments about his GM and then
backpedals a bit and everyone ignores it."
Jermaine O'neal has handled this situation WAAAY DIFFERENT than Kobe. O'neal has thrown out the idea that yes he would like to be traded but not harshly like Kobe's "do it now" or "trade me now..im never playing here again"
Jermaine has not lowered his trade stock as opposed to Kobe, plus he also sypathized with Bird in some ways. He understands that the team might for a youth movement and said that his body wouldnt be able to take it. Plus that stuff about Reggie Miller.
Kobe has not thanked the Lakers organization, not offered any sounds piece of wisdom (most of that wisdom of kobe not being around long enough for a rebuilding or other stuff has been stated by reporters or fans or radio show hosts)..
O'neal has been very professional about it, but Kobe hasnt, plain and simple.
Posted by: The Lake-Show | August 07, 2007 at 08:05 PM
Goodness Gracious,
I've read all the posts from yesterday and today and I have to say, I'm amazed at the absolute high value most of the Laker faithful put on JO. Yes, I know he's an all-star, but remember this, He's not a "Super Star". There are few Super Stars in the league......... Kobe, Tim Duncan, D-Wade, KG, guys like that. A true Super Star is a player that commands the opposing teams attention at all times. You base your game plan around stopping that player. Is JO that kind of player ? I don't think so. Look at the team JO had his most success with, it included Ron Artest, Reggie Miller, Stephen Jackson. I'd say that was a pretty good cast of players to take the heat off JO. I mean, other teams didn't have to make their game plans incumbent on stopping JO so he should have looked pretty good. Is he good, yes, is he great, no! The people who are talking giving up LO, Bynum, Crit, and 2 first rounders, just to "sweeten the pot" are crazy. How can JO be worth those kinds of assets? We can't judge what we might have to give the Pacers based on the KG trade as apples and apples. JO is a nice player, but he isn't KG and his value should be judged accordingly.
If the Pacers want our young stud, Bynum, they'll have to take back nothing but filler to go with him. Unload the weak links Mitch. Clean up the roster. If the Pacers don't want to do that, skip the trade.
Let's lace up the sneaks with the guys we got and play ball. We really haven't seem this team play at full strength with the current roster, discounting both Fish & Crit.. Not a single one of you knows exactly what to expect. I honestly think we have a fairly decent team as is. Our softest spot is at PG. I love D-Fish to death, but he was never the answer for this years team. Neither is Farmar in my opinion. He couldn't beat out Smush Parker, for crying out loud. How can he be our future PG? Our only hope this year is Crit. plays well....... er....... plays great.
Let's not worry about Kobe. If he opts out in 2 years, which he might, but only for more money from the Lakers, where's he going to go? To a team of his choice for the MLE of about $6 M....... not a chance. Who's going to have $25 M in free money (under the cap) laying around to pay Kobe, and if there is a team under the cap that far, who'll be left on their team so that Kobe would want to go there? Nobody. Whether Kobe likes it or not, unless the Lakers find him an unbearable distraction and simply want to get rid of him, he's pretty well stuck here unless he's willing to lose around $100 M from his future NBA salary.
Posted by: LakerLarry | August 07, 2007 at 08:18 PM
CAMPAIGN ALERT!
Trade proposal:
Jermaine O'neal
Danny Granger
for
Lamar
Bynum
Walton
Farmar
1st round pick
With this, the Pacers get what they want. And the Lakers get what we need.
With Danny Granger in the mix, Walton and Lamar are expendable. Radmanovic would serve fine as the backup SF. Kwame/Mihm can hold down the C, while JO and Kobe dominate. We'll still have Turiaf, Cook, Critt; a pretty deep bench. Check the line up:
Fisher/Crittendon
Kobe/Evans
Granger/Radmanovic
J O'neal/Turiaf/Cook
Kwame/Mihm
This team is solid on both offense and defense. A nice mix of vets and young guys. And the two best players are entering their primes.
Of course all this depends on the "Kobe situation". But I think this would be a 'fair deal' for both teams. Not to sound like Harry Truman.
Posted by: Rocky | August 07, 2007 at 08:22 PM
"THERE IS A VERY REAL POSSIBLITY THAT IN 2008, NO TEAM IS GOING TO GIVE A 30 YEAR OLD INJURY PRONE CENTER A 2-YEAR, 43 MILLION DEAL."
----
I agree, but there might be a few teams who would be willing to offer a 4-year,
50 million dollar contract. And if he really truly wants out of Indy, that might be
enough to send him packing.
Of course, it won't be the Lakers offering, as they're way over the cap next
year.
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 08:27 PM
This next batter coming up to the plate was a power foward/center who played 4 seasons 4 your beloved L.A. Lakers and became teams GM in the 2000-01 NBA season.
He get's a nice pitch with the acquistion of Karl Malone and Gary Payton its popped up high! Looks like a homerun, we're in the finals! Oh No, the wind got it going...FOUL!
That's Ok Mitch, there you go! Good swing baby! Next pitch... looks like its high and outside... Mitch swings on Shaq 4 Butler, Odom, and Grant. Ump yells, "Strike 2!" 0-2 count. Noooooo!!!
Common Mitch! You can do this! Pitcher winds up... Butler and Atkins for Kwame, next pitch inside, almost hits Mitch and HE SWINGS WITH HIS EYES CLOSED... The ump screams, "Foul!"
Wait a minute does this guy belong in the line up! Mitch, come on Mitch! Hey batter, batter, batter... Next pitch Vladimir and Shammond, Ball 1! Ball 2! Mitch backs off the plate and thinks, Odom's on first, Phil's on second, and Kobe's on third... "I gotta hit this out the park, everyone's counting on me," Mitch thinks to himself. I yell good eye Mitch, praying that this fool can get a bunt at this point.
Next pitch is a beauty right over the plate, EVERYBODY STANDS UP, Jason Kidd in the deal, all we really gotta give up is Bynum, WE CAN KEEP Odom - SLOW and OVER the PLATE ... Ump screams, "Ball 3!" Mitch didn't swing... Mother @%#%$&. You stupid #$$%*^#, punk @%^#^!
Okay.... Okay. Okay. Calm down. Sigh... Full mother @^%&^*# count! BASES LOADED! COME ON MITCH! Fingers crossed, wearing my lucky draws, come on MITCH! Here's the pitch, KG! Ump yells, "Foul!" The crowd starts throwin stuff on field. I yell, that Mchale don't deal with the Lakers and that he took a good cut on that one but no one is listening. It's about to get ugly! I grab my kid and start heading for the exit.
Uh oh, I notice Kobe is about to walk off the field, WHAT IS THE HECK IS GOING ON! Never mind Phil calmed him down he's ok. "You suck Mitch," someone yells! "Your mom works at Popeye's," yells another. Oh that was Kobe who said that.
Good one Kobe.
NEXT PITCH,SLOW AND OVER THE PLATE... JERMAINE O'NEAL! Mitch you've been waitin for this all night! Everybody stands up, even the players in the dugout are on their feet for this one. The crowd yells SWING MITCH, SWING! My 8 year old screams, "For the love of God MITCH SWING!"
Posted by: John Randall | August 07, 2007 at 08:30 PM
fakerz,
"But you hear a lot of "off-the-record" chatter about players who don't want to play with Kobe."
--------
Yeah, about that. Fakerz, those voices you keep hearing in your head of
players saying they don't want to play with Kobe? Well, nobody else hears
them. It's called schizophrenia, and there's medication for it.
:-)
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 08:30 PM
KB + JO + LO will be great. It's up to MItch to negotiate with Bird. However, with the ineptness Mitch has shown, I doubt that happens.
Posted by: gdchild | August 07, 2007 at 08:32 PM
fakerz,
You're really living up to your name in this post. First you claim that there are
players talking about that they don't want to play with Kobe. Who? Reference?
That's what I thought. You made it up.
And then, there's this:
"The difference is, nobody heard O'Neal's voice with their own ears, as they did repeatedly with Bryant."
This wasn't JO's words spun in some direction by a reporter - here's a link
to an audio recording of one of the interviews. Listen for yourself. There
was no spin involved, JO clearly seemed to be speaking from the heart that
he wanted to come to LA and play for championships with Kobe.
http://www.basketballnewsservices.com/storage/JermaineONeal_Audio.wma
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 08:36 PM
Mamba, don't listen to them. Two undead can't have kids, you've got nothing to worry about there. Of course that means you don't have to use protection...but not having any working nerve endings, that really shouldn't be an issue anyway. :-)
Posted by: Michael A | August 07, 2007 at 08:45 PM
Bird is a prick. Giving up Lamar and Bynum for Oneal is a rip, and now he wants Luke as well? Who are you trying to kid? Why not just say no deal? Bird traded Jackson and Harrington for Dunleavey and Murphy and now he wants to gut us out. Stubborn jerk. I hope JO walks away from his contract leaving Bird with absolutely nothing. F-U Bird for having the audacity to ask for Bynum, Odom, and Walton. You think JO is better than KG? Smart GMs do not let emotions clout their decision making skills. F-U Bird, now go fly away.
Posted by: fkillah | August 07, 2007 at 09:03 PM
DaveyJonze-
I don't think it makes them the best team in the West, but at worst they're a notch below (assuming everyone stays healthy, of course, which is a big if with that trio). I certainly doubt most teams would want to see them in the playoffs. That kind of arrangement, with LO in a position where he can do all of those things he does well without the pressure of having to score 18 a night would do wonders.
If they can get it done, they'd be better off. I just doubt they can do it.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | August 07, 2007 at 09:04 PM
"
Eddie Jones to Kobe: "F-U"
but in fairness...
Eddie Jones to Shaq: "F-U"
Looks like the luster of playing in Miami has wanned.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 02:56 PM"
and Steve Nash
and Amare Stoudemire
and Shawn Marion
and Jason Kidd
and Gilbert Arenas
and Tim Duncan
and Tony Parker
and KG
and Paul Pierce
and Ray Allen
and Chauncy Billups
and Dwayne Wade
and Luol Deng
and Yao Ming
and TMac
and Melo
and AI
and Oden
and Durant
and Michael Redd
and Starbury
and Chris Bosh
and Vinsanity
and Dwight Howard
and Chris Paul
and Lebron
and Deron Will
and Boozer
Posted by: socalife | August 07, 2007 at 09:19 PM
ATL Laker Fan:
no no no .... it's kobe's fault that his teammates can't play basketball.
and it's kobe's fault that he's #1 in assists on the team although he's a shooting guard whose main goal is to shoot the ball and drop buckets.
and it's kobe's fault that the Lakers FO gutted the team after they dealt Shaq.
Chucky Atking starting point guard LA Lakers?
Smush Parker starting point guard LA Lakers?
Hell, we should have won 3 championships by now according to KL beast if Kobe wasn't such a ballhog.
Posted by: socalife | August 07, 2007 at 09:22 PM
Kobe Apologist,
It isn't just O'Neil. Davis. Kidd. Artest. KG.
Any one of those would have made a major impact on this team. And who would care if nobody else wants to play with him? All of them are ON RECORD as saying they want to play with Kobe. You can listen to the dang Pod Casts if you want.
Also, at least half of the dudes who have come on record as not wanting to play with Kobe are guys we don't want anyway 'cause of their own baggage. That half gets to add hypocrite to their list of personal flaws that we don't want.
BTW, almost no one else wants them. The dudes with Kobe in Las Vegas seemed pretty happy to play with him. Genuinely. So if only all-stars want to play with him, that is a far cry from "nobody" wants to play with him. Unless the Haters meant "nobodies" don't want to play with him.
Yeah, that's it. Scrubs are too worried he would steal what little thunder they have.
The Haters must champion the cause of the scrubs in the NBA. A very noble cause, I have a new respect for them.
--FearlessWhackJob
Posted by: FearlessWhackJob | August 07, 2007 at 09:41 PM
okay in response to the post up above from "insight"...there's a HUGE difference in kobe wanting to be the number one option for a team, and him wanting to do it all by himself. i dont think it was ever kobe's intention to be put as the number one option on a team with such limited options such as the current lakers squad.
i don't think the lakers should trade away too much to get JO but i think he is worth it if he can be acquired for bynum and co., while still keeping LO. maybe bynum will be better than JO in the future and MAYBE it will look foolish in the long run, but it's a RISK worth taking right now. the laker franchise owes it to kobe to try and maximize his current value because it just doesn't make any sense otherwise to continue wasting away the talent and skill of one of the greatest players to play this game.
Posted by: k_enny | August 07, 2007 at 09:53 PM
El B - I don't see how what you're proposing improves Miami. Why would they get involved? To help us or Indy?
Posted by: Michael A | August 07, 2007 at 09:54 PM
Blkthght06 is right on money about Bynam so far.
Posted by: drturk | August 07, 2007 at 10:20 PM
Aloha Rocky
The major flaw in your trade proposal is that Larry Bird does not want to make a fair deal. Bird is a competor and he wants to rip us. That is why I have little confidence that anything will get done. Up to now he is looking for KG like compensation and JO is not KG. Heck he might even insist on more. If a trade is done it may not happen until well into the season. If Indy sucks, which they should and JO begins to pop off again, perhaps a trade may happen then. Personaly unless we hear Kobe come off his opt out stance, I would be surprised if the Laker pull the trigger on a deal.
MH
Posted by: michael.h | August 07, 2007 at 10:34 PM
If Bird actually did ask for LO, Bynum AND Walton in return for JO isn't he saying "F you Lakers, and F you JO"? This deal could not be done even if all parties were in agreement due to the CBA. Bird is playing hard ball, trying to save face, and trying to get some leverage to deal. At least I hope that's what he's doing and he's not just another lousy, irresponsible, unimaginative, hack, HOF GM.
Someone wondered if Magic liked Bird more than Bird liked Magic. I think Magic likes people more than Bird likes people. Get lost you crochety old French Lick Hick!
Posted by: Steve in Denver | August 07, 2007 at 10:41 PM
Edwin Gueco-
The post was part of a group that didn't get put through this afternoon because, quite simply, we couldn't see them. I was updating much of the day on my PDA, and with the mobile version of the software it's very difficult to tell if a post has gone through or not. Nobody is censoring you, and we certainly didn't leave instructions with people at the office to keep you from posting.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | August 07, 2007 at 10:42 PM
My thoughts on the latest offer from Indy - Bynum + Odom + Walton.
I think maybe Bird is feeling that JO's statements have weakened his bargaining position, so he's starting
with a ridiculously high offer hoping the Lakers will "bargain down" to just Bynum and Odom. If the Lakers
gave up all three of those players to get Jermaine, they would be a WORSE team next year, not better.
Or maybe it's a ploy to get New Jersey to give in and include Marcus Williams in the deal with Krstic and
Jefferson.
OTOH, JO is clearly the best player on the Pacers, and it may be Bird's opinion that Jermaine is a superstar.
Not many people would share that view with him (including a lot of the Indy fans, from the blog posts I saw),
but maybe he feels that Jermaine is worth the Lakers 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players. But he won't get them.
He may end up trading JO to New Jersey or keeping him this season and daring him to opt out, but I can't
see Mitch being stupid enough to trade all three of those players for Jermaine.
Unless Bird becomes much more reasonable, I'm thinking we're going into the season with our current lineup.
Maybe he'll change his New Jersey offer to O'Neal and Tinsley for Carter, Jefferson, and Krstic (which is
the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best player on their team).
Anyway, if he makes demands this high of every team, then JO will be a Pacer this year, or at least until
the trade deadline. If Larry comes sniffing around that time, hopefully the Lakers will be doing well enough
with the current team that they'll tell him "thanks, but no thanks".
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 10:54 PM
Socalife,
How true on what you said on Kobe's teammates? When they couldn't put the ball on the hoop, it's the fault of Kobe. When they treat the ball like a hot potato, they passed it to Kobe with 2 seconds to go ( before penalty of 24 second expires), what do you expect but a forced shot. Kobe passes the ball to Walton while he's doubled, Walton passes the ball back to Kobe the same with Sasha, the same scheme with Smush, worst with Kwame, hefumbles it, these are bunch of sissies and put the blame on Kobe for their flaws, why not create their own shots and go to the hoop.
Every second that passes w/o a trade, I think JO's trade will just like KG, all talk and no action and so with the others. I have been posting these names for the last two days and it never got to the blog, so I'll enumerate the names again the ones I can remember for the 3rd time. These players that were missed/did not pan out but heavily rumored to be a Laker under the watch of GM Cupcake:
Derek Anderson '05
Lorenzen Wright '05
Carlos Boozer '06
Ron Artest '06
Al Harrington '06
Chris Webber '07
Jason Kidd '07
Theo Papaloukas '07
Steve Blake '07
Juan Navarro '07
KG '07
And finally, JO
Why in the world will we frustrate the laker fans wanting to have a change? Why are we forcing them to take pills that don't work? Yet they don't complain when they are charged $2,500 at courtside seat and yet the F/O kept on presenting players that are good in November but bad in March. HAVE MERCY FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! whether you're the most optimistic fan in this blog or the most learneth blogger/GM who played the game, all I ask is learn to take risk. Lakers should play ball to win not to waste time and wait for Andrew to be like Jabbar, farmar to grow up some more inches or Kwame to learn to catch the ball. If we have Kidd at the end of last season, we could have caught KG so why not take risks and try JO? I have been taught that opportunities will come as long as we're winning but with more losses they just invite miseries and w/ companies too.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 07, 2007 at 11:15 PM
weaveman
"It's not Kobe's job to average 8+ assists a game. He is a 2 guard!!!! If he averages 6+ we should be happy."
i'll take 5.5 assist per game and zero kobe glares...
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:22 PM
kobe apologist
"Still, as the other teams raised the pot, the Lakers called. The next card was a 10, Rookie Andrew Bynum. Now the Lakers have a chance at a straight flush."
straight flush? i think 2 pair is more like it. Spurs have a straight flush at the moment.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:24 PM
GhostOf Spiderman
"You do of course realize that in order for Kobe to be scored with an assist, another player on his team must catch the pass and then score a basket as a result of the pass."
first off, welcome to the blog spidy.
are you referring to when kobe passes the ball after dribbling 7-10 times and running 15 seconds off the shot clock, then passing to a teammate in duress?
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:25 PM
Blkthght06
"THAT' S IT.....I'VE HAD IT......I HAVE BEEN READING THIS BLOG FOR 3 MONTHS NOW AND I CAN NO LONGER REMAIN SILENT."
first off, i'm glad you're participating. second, PLEASE DON'T US ALL CAPS, I CAN'T READ IT CUZ IT HURT MY EYES.....
"KL BEAST.....YOU'RE WEAK."
Thank you, i've been called worse. Please post using normal case and let's battle.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:28 PM
hal9000
"Should Kobe pass up an open shot just so he can get an eighth assist?"
should kobe pass up any shot? fudgegetaboutit, he'll never win the scoring title if he passes up shots, contested or otherwise.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:29 PM
ATL Laker Fan
"Over the weekend, I watched an old Bulls game from their first 3-peat, and with the players around Jordan on that team, they (the role players) did something well that the current Lakers team does not know how to do, something that Jordan couldn't teach the Bulls or that Kobe can't teach this Lakers team: move WITHOUT the ball."
The key to get guys moving without the ball is that you have to give it to them regularly, otherwise why move?
"It's something that the Lakers 3-peat team did well, and that this team hasn't opened the memo on."
agreed. the shaq-led lakers understood that passing to the open guy if the key. why do you think kobe, horry, fisher were all able to be heros?
"Is that on Kobe? Given that he's not a point guard, NO."
my point isn't whether it's on kobe, but rather, if kobe's doubled, give up the rock...don't force the action. i remember this past playoff series when kobe was doubled and luke or Mo was wide open under the basket, you know what happened, 30-foot 3-point jack from kobe.
"As the leader of the team, should he look to give advice on what to do to improve upon that? YES. Does he do it? YES"
i agree, during th 26-13 start, but when things went bad, it was the kobe glare.
"To the level of diplomatic satisfaction and political correctness that you and ESPN and half of the emotional pieback players that are in the league now? OF COURSE NOT, but then again, none of the above mentioned are at the practices or in the huddles. I'm just saying."
fair enough. BTW, how's hotlanta? 90 degrees and 90% humidity?
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:41 PM
CORRECTION ON THE LATEST ONEAL TRADE PROPOSAL.
Whoever reported that the Loose Cannons said that Indy wants Odom, Bynum, and Walton was wrong. I just listened to the
podcast (it's from the second hour of their show on www.klac570radio.com).
The offer was Odom, Bynum, and Crittendon for JO. This is basically the same as the offer that was on the table before the
draft except with Kwame & Murphy removed and with the #19 draft pick resolved into an actual player in Crittendon. It's still
a bit much, but considerably less onerous than Odom, Bynum, and Walton.
I think Crittendon being included won't be a holdup, because the Lakers now have Farmar and Fisher, so it comes back down
to whether the Lakers are willing to give up both Odom and Bynum or not. I kinda think the three players will contribute more
to the Lakers than O'Neal will, but O'Neal definitely is better than any one of them (though either Bynum or Crittendon could end
up being as good or better down the road).
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 11:43 PM
i think the lakers are trying to send out LO and keep bynum. my proof? wasnt lamar almost sent in that three team powder keg that the legendary underpants man nixed? it makes sense that this is happening. i hope not. i dont have faith in someone who havent learned how to motivate themselves and havent been in a situation where they fought and felt pain and victory with thier teammates on a long term basis. what i am saying is that bynum's one year of basketball in high school wasnt a good foundation for him to learn sacrifice and what it takes to win. i just get the feeling from this kid that he wants his paycheck and he wants to party. ship his ass.
Posted by: the WOLF | August 07, 2007 at 11:44 PM
long time
"Yeah, about that. Fakerz, those voices you keep hearing in your head of
players saying they don't want to play with Kobe? Well, nobody else hears
them. It's called schizophrenia, and there's medication for it."
Dr. Long Time I presume? you know most quack are insane themselves...
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 11:44 PM
Blkthght06
I disagree with you on Bynum on so many different levels.
1. The Lakers are not keeping Bynum a secret from the rest of the league. He played over 20 minutes a game last year and was scouted just like the rest of the league. And still unlike yourself, most scouts and GM's remain high on him.
2. 3rd yr players rarely play in the summer league. Usual only bubble players and vets looking for a job play in the summer league if they are not 1st or 2nd yr.
3 I know he only played 2 summer league games but Oden got smoked. Oh Andrew was on 17 his first summer.
4 During the season commentator after commentator were praising Andrews foot work in the paint and heaping praise on Kareem for his work with him. I was impressed by his footwork as well.
5 Andrew averaged 7.9 points, 5.9 boards and 1.6 block per 21 minutes that is quite a lift over his 1st year, so I do not understand how you feel he hasnt improved. And andrew had more then a couple of decent games. He showed enough, often enough to tell the scouts that there is something there.
6 Conditioning was the primary reason he wasnt a double double guy last year and he was critized for it by Phil, ONCE and the issue went away. I dont know about you but at 17, 18 and 19, I wasnt exactly Mr. Maturity. From everything we are hearing, he has been working hard on his conditioning this summer. But give him a break, he was still GROWING. Remeber wanting to sleep 12 hrs when you were still growing? I do. He is now 7 1 with a 7 6 wing span. He keeps up the work outs he will be 300 pounds easy by 22. How easy do you think it will be to move him out of the paint?
7 This brings us to emotion. I remember watching Kareem. And Kareem was possibly the most business like player I have ever watched. And Andrew is his pupil. How do you think Kareem reacted to Andrew pushing Shaq. I wouldnt be surprised if Kareem ripped him a new one and lectured him on professionalism. I mean, think Tim Duncan. The only time you ever see much emotion out of him is when they call a foul on him.
Look andrew will never be a high flyer, do not confuse him with the power forwards that most of the teams play at center, he is a classic NBA center. Kareem was not a high flyer, either was Wilt, or Walton or Duncan. But when you are that big and long, you dont need to be. Heck, have you ever seen Yao leave his feet?
I do not know if Andrew will ever become a franchise type player. But I can say with some confidence that he will become a very good one. Better then most of the centers in the league. And if you do not think that has value, look at how much 7 foot stiffs make in the NBA. I also have a feeling that we will watch him grow this year and with Larry Bird being Larry Bird it will probably be with the Lakers, which may turn out not to be a bad thing.
MH
Posted by: michael.h | August 07, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Guys,
I love the fact that JO is wanting to be a laker. I think it would be real possible to see a boston La finals if we cant get JO without giving up Lamar. If some how we can get it done how awesome would that be!
Kobe, Lamar, Jermaine vs Allen, Pierce, KG sickening matchups!
However, as much as i hope this deal goes on (without giving up Lamar of course) I think we don't get JO until next year. We have an expiring contract in Kwame next year and i could see JO signing with us for less money. Then we also get a shot at keeping Bynum one more year and i think this year is a good year to gauge his talent.
ON The other hand. Kobe has no respect for Bynum and i don't think he will help Bynum develop at all. Maybe it wouldn't be bad to get rid of him but first we should have Kareem erase his memory of everything he has taught him.
Ultimately...if we don't get JO this year lets hope Kobe learns that his best shot is next year by helping Bynum develop and hopefully after not having Kwames contract we will have enough money to sign JO.
Imagine this lineup
PG Fisher/Farmar/ Crittenton
SG Kobe/Evans
SF Odom/Walton
PF O'neal/Turiaf
C Bynum/Mihm/
WE WOULD BE SO DEEP AND VERSATILE. I know it's a lot to ask from us to be patient but imagine this lineup. I'm not sure how much KWame is making but i think it would be a possibility to get JO next year.
Again i am so confused because it's hard for me to see Bryant trusting Bynum enough to allow him to develop. Someone please HELP ME SEE THE WAY!! HELP ME THROUGH MY AGONIZING TERMOIL AND GIVE ME SOME INSIGHT ON THIS! DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH ME OR HAVE I JUST GONE NUTS?
Posted by: Mainor | August 07, 2007 at 11:59 PM
KLBeast
Thanks for the "welcome"!
Actually I was referring to the many drive and dish opportunities that I witness every game - Kobe drives and draws 3 defenders then dishes to a wide open Sasha in the corner and...........BRICK! (good pass, no assist)
I think your statement is actually backwards, Kobe is the one that gets the passes from his teammates after the clock runs down and they don't know what to do - so they pass to the Kobester and he jacks it up (lowering his FG%) because that's what has to happen with the clock about to expire. I do not ever remember Kobe putting any of his teammates in that position........well maybe once I saw him drop it to LO late in a close game with the clock expiring, but that's about it that I remember from last year.
I will concede that Kobe does over-dribble on occasion and it drives PJ crazy, but nobody is saying Kobe is the perfect player. Even the BB Gods like MJ, Magic, Bird and Wilt had flaws and annoying habits at times. I say give me a guy who is a cold assassin, over a heartless timid player (like Dirk!) anytime - I'll take Kobe's faults along with that awesome offensive arsenal and killer instincts all day long!
Notice I never said Kobe was better than MJ - parts of his game may be better, but MJ is a God! Maybe someday Kobe can get close to there.....
Posted by: GhostOfSpiderman | August 08, 2007 at 12:38 AM
I WILL DO IT!
IF THAT IS WHAT LARRY WANTS ? I WILL MAKE THE DEAL NOW! Go ahead and send Bynum, Lamar and Walton for JO. I am actually good with that because Pacers did not asked for Crittenton and it is high time to get an athletic SF anyways, this just open the door for it. Kwame's expiring contract next year gives us that opportunity! I love it everything is falling to the right places. JUST MAKE THE DEAL NOW AND CLOSE IT BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MINDS!
MIHM/KWAME
ONEAL/TURIAF
VLAD/EVANS
BRYANT/VUJACIC
FISHER/CRITTENTON
THIS IS GREAT OPPORTUNITY! TAKE IT!
Posted by: Staples 24 | August 08, 2007 at 12:40 AM
Exclusive: Kobe Bryant Puts Divorce Rumors to Rest
August 07, 2007 06:12 PM PDT
http://www.etonline.com/celebrities/news/49326/
The L.A. Lakers star comes to ET to dismiss reports his marriage is on the rocks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rumors have surfaced that basketball star KOBE BRYANT and his wife VANESSA's six-year marriage is close to divorce. But the Lakers guard tells our KEVIN FRAZIER exclusively that the reports are 100 percent false.
The NBA player has been traveling in Europe with his family, which includes two young daughters, and has been working out with Team U.S.A. He tells Kevin he has no idea how the rumors got started because he and Vanessa are happily married. He goes on to tell Kevin that he initially wasn't going to respond to the reports but then felt compelled to set the record straight.
Posted by: gdchild | August 08, 2007 at 12:53 AM
Andrew Bynum
Size: 7', 293 pounds
Position: C
Committed to Connecticut
DraftExpress: What are your thoughts on the possible 20 year old age requirement that the NBA is considering imposing?
Bynum: I think it's a good rule. I'm actually trying to go to college. People get in there and they're real young and immature. They can't really hang out with the fellas in a way. It's a pretty tough life because if they go out to a club after a victory, you have to stay in the hotel by yourself, so I think that everyone needs to college and become more developed before going to the league.
: What are your current height and weight?
Bynum: I'm 7'0 and I weigh 293 lbs.
: Do you know what your vertical jump and wingspan are?
Bynum: My vertical jump was 31 inches the last time I got it measured and my wingspan is 7'4 or 7'5.
: What made you decide to choose UCONN as opposed to other skills?
Bynum: I compared all of the schools. I liked the distance because I didn't want to go hours away from home. I like Coach Calhoun in what he did with Okafor, Josh Boone, and Charlie. I just felt like that was the best place for me because they use their big men a little more then most other schools. Its more of a half court set. We do try to break out and run, but its nothing like Tech or North Carolina where they're just running constantly up and down the floor.
: How long are you planning on staying at UCONN?
Bynum: Well if they put the rule in, I'll be there for at least three years, or until I'm 20. I'll be 17 when I get there, so I'll be there for 3 years. Whatever happens, happens. If I do real good when I get there next year and I see opportunities open up, then who knows.
: So if the age limit does go into effect, you will definitely have to stay for three years due to the fact that you're only 17?
Bynum: Yes.
: How do you think the Connecticut job has done such a good job of developing post players such as Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva, and Josh Boone over the years?
Bynum: Well we always do individuals before every practice. [UCONN Assistant] Coach George Blaney has us do individuals with him. We just work out against each other and practice the moves over and over again until we get sharp at them.
: How is Charlie Villanueva's departure going to affect the team for next year?
Bynum: It's definitely going to hurt because Charlie is a great player, but we have myself, Jeff Adrien, and Marcus Johnson coming in, so we should be alright.
: What do you think your role is going to be next year at UCONN?
Bynum: I'm going to play a lot of great defense, be the first one up and down the court, and get any points whenever I can.
: Thank you very much Andrew. Best of luck tonight and in the Jordan game.
Posted by: The Lake-Show | August 08, 2007 at 01:27 AM
What interests me about the 2005 draft is that the Lakers drafted Andrew Bynum after already having traded for Kwame Brown.
The Lakers Line up looked like this:
C Mihm
PF Odom
SF Butler/George
SG Kobe
PG Atkins
Obviously, this lineup is a bit week inside (as it is now..since its the same damn lineup)
so they traded Butler for Kwame for a line up that we thought would look like this.
C Mihm
PF Kwame
SF Odom
SG Kobe
PG Atkins
The situation then dictated that the Lakers would probably select Danny Granger as Phil Jackson wanted. I dont think he wanted to see Caron leave, but dealt with the Kwame trade, because he wanted Granger in the draft. Also a big part of this is that nobody thinks of Lamar as a power forward (even though some on this blog insist it). Because I mean Brian Grant was a Power Forward, not a center
C Mihm
PF Grant/Kwame
SF Odom/George/Walton
SG Kobe/Ganger
PG Atkins
But then came the fact that Brian Grant wasnt coming back, so Jim Buss pulled out the Andrew Bynum card. Then Atkins was gone, and then the Lakers pulled out their next moves
C Mihm/Bynum
PF Odom/Kwame
SF George/Walton
SG Kobe
PG Parker
I dunno, but the Granger lineup looks better..
Having said that.
The Lakers would be centered around Odom, Granger, Kobe.
There would be no KG or Jason Kidd coming, if it wasnt for the drafting of Andrew Bynum. So the drafting of Bynum has to have been a move for getting assets. Its easier to trade a guy like Bynum, then Granger. Thers more Grangers than Bynums.
But then back to the Kwame trade. The Kwame trade was probably forced by the idea that Kobe wanted to win now and didnt want to rebuild, so they made a brash move. For instance, if the Lakers had not made the Kwame for Caron trade, and instead went into the season with their same players plus drafted Granger, they would have had these pieces.
Kobe, Odom, Caron, Granger.
or
Kobe, Odom, Caron, Bynum.
The biggest mistake, then is not the drafting of Bynum, but rather the trade of Caron Butler. If the Lakers had Butler, they could have trade a packange of Butler and Bynum to any team for their superstar.
Butler+Bynum = KG
Bynum+ Odom= JO
The Lakers could have a team of Kobe, Garnett, Odom or a team of Kobe, Butler, JO.
The thing for me, then, is why was there no uproar back then?? No fire Mitch for the trade back then??
Its this type of thinking as to why I dont want the FO influenced by Kobe, fans, or other people. Clearly at some point there was a plan, but that was botched right before the draft, in the trading of Caron for Kwame. What happens now if they hving something else up their sleave?? Maybe in two years they are thinking of using Bynum+Crittenton to get a star...and then maybe trade Kobe for more players???
In thinking about this, I actually have more faith in the FO, and so should all of you. In reality, we were one non-trade away from being all the way back.
Posted by: The Lake-Show | August 08, 2007 at 01:49 AM
KL,
"are you referring to when kobe passes the ball after dribbling 7-10 times and running 15 seconds off the shot clock, then passing to a teammate in duress?"
Actually if you took the time to watch a few games you might notice that the opposite is the prevalent pattern. When Kobe keeps the ball for so long he almost always shoots it because by that time his triangular team mates aren't quite sure where the triangle is and Kobe's court vision is impaired by the triple team he draws. But much more common is for other players to have the ball, try to penetrate or set something up, discover they can't do much, either because they just don't have the skills or they're not yet themselves comfortable with triangle, and then pass off to Kobe as the seconds tick off hoping he'll put up a miracle shot.
Hollinger should probably invent a statistic about shooting percentage when you get the ball with less than four seconds on the clock and then give out efficiency ratings to players who can produce a score whether by shooting or an assist. I expect Kobe would score high on both number of "at bats" and percentage of success. Still the FG% will always be lower than the player's average, which explains why Kobe is considered a great shooter but with a disappointing FG%.
Posted by: Tsphere | August 08, 2007 at 02:16 AM
************************************************************************
ATTENTION BLOGGERS : TODAY IS BARRY BONDS DAY
************************************************************************
If You ask how did Earvin Johnson become great many will say MAGIC
If you ask how Michael Jordan Became great some will say, “IT’S THE SHOES’’”
If you ask how Muhammad Ali became great some will say”FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY STING LIKE A BEE”
If you ask how Willie Mays became great some will just say “SAY HEY”
If you ask how Joe Montana became great some will say “ICE WATER”
Why do I lists these people because no matter how they became great all are acknowledged
as perhaps the greatest in their sport at their position and all did Videotron congratulations
To Barry Bonds despite the protests of some. And all of them acknowledge Barry as perhaps the
Greatest at his sport. Therefore who am I to question how Barry Bonds became great? If the
Greatest in all the Major sports acknowlege you as the greatest that’s good enough for me.
SO BARRY BONDS WE SALUTE YOU FOR HOLDING BOTH THE ALLTIME HOME RUN
RECORD AND THE SEASON HOME RUN RECORD. AND HANK AARON WE SALUTE YOU
FOR GIVING BARRY HIS PROPS IN A VIDEOTRON MESSAGE. CLASSY HANK !
OK folks let the venom fly I can take it, but I call it as I see it and in Barry Bionds I see
A 7 time MVP no other player ever had even 4.
IN OTHER NEWS:
I would like to announce that thanks to the encouragement of Michael A, Generic_One
And Exhelodrvr my former girlfriend and I are back together and yes I have turned her into
A Zombie/Vampire so that our love can be eternal. And please no “yeah eternally damned”
Jokes. And someday if we are very lucky we will have little ZombVamp kids. And then,
AND THEN MAYBE MY KIDS WILL MARRY KLBEASTS KIDS AND THEY WILL
HAVE LITTLE ZOMBVAMBEAST KIDS. Oh it is just so beautiful and I owe it
All to Generic_one’s Zombie’s chronicles. GOD BLESS YOU G1.
That’s it I’m so choked up that’s all for today I need more raw meat and
Blood. ARGGGH. Angry Zombie
55 WIN BANDWAGON MEMBERS:
(1) Laker Tom (2) Marty (3) Hobbit (4) Fearless Whack Job (5) Mamba24/10
(6) David Whang (7) BD (8) Dan Dan the Laker Fan (9) Long Time Laker Fan
(10) Roky (11) JoninJapan(In Canada)
AND NOW ROLL CALL
FAITH, WOLF, MIKE T. TALIQ, Edwin Gueco,, KEIFO, Mamba24Fan4Life, Fan of Mamba,
KIWI, WOW, PEACE, J_COOL, DAVID WHANG, ADAM KILEY, LAKERSRYDEORDIE,
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Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Coby Karl, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar, Jarvis Critterton, JERMAINE ONEAL???
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES
THE HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
ELGIN BAYLOR, JERRY WEST, PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, SILK
COACHED BY THE 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON AND
NO ONE AND NOTHING WILL EVER DIVIDE OR CONQUER US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
Posted by: Mamba24/10 | August 08, 2007 at 05:51 AM
I just wish I could fast forward until the start of the season -- even with Bonds' 756 and the nfl coming up, nothing can satisfy my thirst for the nba season.
anyways, thanks mamba for the constant rollcalls and acknowledgement of my existence.. 55-wins baby.. we can do it this year...
no injuries, we'll be fine... JO for bynum and no LO then we pull the trigger -- if LO is included -- no deal....
but with kobe, JO, and Lo, our payroll will exceed the salary cap right there -- maybe this is another reason why the trade is not going to happen?
regardless of the makeup of the team come October,
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: David Whang | August 08, 2007 at 06:13 AM
BLKNGHT YOU HIT THE JACKPPOT!!!
NICE POST MAN...
BYNUM'S OVER RATED, PLAIN AND SIMPLE...
TRADE LAMAR, WE DONT NEED A SO SO PLAYER FOR 14MIL...
PURPLE AND GOLD BABY!!!
Posted by: juanman888 | August 08, 2007 at 07:02 AM
Weave man
I don't think a free agent addition is enough.
MITCH and JIMBO need to have a plan B trade or 2 small trades in the works if JO does not work out.
There is nothing in free agency that's going to change up our mix enough to make a VISIBLE difference.
We can sit back and wish on a star with the current core and hope that they can show something not in Nov/Dec but in April and there after.
I'm talking about the biggest BUSTS of last season which were
VLAD RAD, BYNUM, BROWN, FARMAR, and partially ODOM too.
ODOM and BROWN are rehabbing so they aren't working on their games.
Are they watching film?
VLAD RAD should have been cut after that accident as a do over for us otherwise he owes his summer to us. He needs to be worked out and trained daily.
Posted by: LakerBake | August 08, 2007 at 07:34 AM
I love Magic Johnson.
However, Magic was not Bird's teammate.
I know they are cordial but if any of you think that Bird wants to help Magic high-five, win, and party with his Laker family, you are MISTAKEN.
Some of you must have been born in like 1982 or something.
They are fierce rivals with tremendous respect for each other.
If BIRD is hard lining on Odom and Bynum then that's it.
Posted by: LakerBake | August 08, 2007 at 07:44 AM
I say we trade Kobe before training camp starts. I have to believe that Ric Bucher has a decent level of access to Kobe and those close to him and what he is reporting has merit. He is making some very bold statements and if indeed Kobe is taking a different stance I can almost guarantee that Kobe or his agent would come out and make a statement denying what Bucher is reporting.
And does anyone else find the Lakers overall lack of activity other than smallish deals seem strange since everyone from Kobe to Phil to Magic has been saying that big things are going to happen? I think the Kobe Factor definitely is playing into that whole thing and that's why we haven't made any bold moves.
So that leaves us with speculative Kobe trades. I actually think this would get us the best deal, but we'd have to deal within the Western Conference (which I have no problem doing actually).
Lakers trade Kobe Bryant, Jordan Farmar
Lakers receive Josh Howard, Devin Harris, Jason Williams, DeSagana Diop, 1st round pick 2008
Dallas trades Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Devin Harris, Diop, 1st round pick
Dallas receives Kobe Bryant, Jordan Farmar
Miami trades Jason Williams
Miami receives Jason Terry
Since Dallas doesn't have the big expiring deals the Lakers would want they move Jason Terry, a PG Miami desperately needs (you don't think they're really comfy with Smush right?), to the Heat and get back Williams contract which they ship to LA.
The Lakers get Howard, a young All-Star at the 3 who plays tough defense and is a fierce competitor. I personally love this guy and would be stoked to have him on the team. In Harris they get a top 3-5 PG prospect who plays extrememly solid on the ball defense and is our answer to the Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, etc. problem. Last year our biggest problem on defense was at the 1 and 3. This deal takes care of that. WIlliams and Diop could be solid role guys with expiring deals.
Dallas gets Kobe, the best player on the planet to pair with Nowitzki. They still have Stackhouse, Dampier, Eddie Jones, and others to remain competitive. Including Jordan Farmar makes it easier for them to move Devin Harris.
I would guess that Dallas would be reluctant to move both Howard and Harris, but if Kobe was a possibility I'm guessing Cuban would pull the trigger.
In a perfect world Kobe would be saying everything he did before the injuries and would be looking forward to leading this team back to the top. But since he took the "rhymes with wussy" way out and says he doesn't trust the front office, I say ship his ass out.
Let's get back to a Laker TEAM and move forward rather than dealing with a soap opera all the time.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 08, 2007 at 07:47 AM
TaosHum
You cry about Kobe's money practically weekly.
We are losers right now. We are trying to win.
The mix of players have been here for 2 yrs with Phil Jackson and some of them were here the yr before.
This Lamar Odom that everyone loves has been hurt every yr. He's fragile.
Bynum is a big iffy.
We need to change the team's mix up. The goods we were granted for the Shaq trade have been WASTED.
Did you forget about the Caron Butler trade?
This is why we have to DO SOMETHING.
You could sit still if you did not screw that one up.
We could have Butler, Odom, Kobe, and Bynum and maybe give it another yr but we do not.
FACE REALITY.
Posted by: LakerBake | August 08, 2007 at 07:47 AM