Kobe and O'Neal II: Electric Boogaloo?
That's the talk on the street right now. But will such a sequel, this time a pairing of Kobe Bryant and Jermaine O'Neal, come to fruition (and will it match a level of sequel excitement that's 100% Ice-T approved)? The issue remains up in the air. For that matter, what O'Neal actually said in regards to his desire to relocate West is also being debated, mostly by the man himself. While attending an L.A. charity hoops game, O'Neal let it be known that he'd be more than cool with a trade that paired him with the Mamba, that he'd opt out of his contract in a season if things don't pick up in Pacer Land, and even played a little backseat G.M., saying he doesn't want to play for a new team that's been gutted, a likely scenario if Larry Bird gets his way.
Well, maybe he said all that, because O'Neal was pretty quick to clarify and/or soften stances. For starters, it's not a trade "demand," per se. Just a concept that he's open towards. As for the critique of Larry Legend (who issued a statement of his own), JO maintains those words never even left his mouth. In any event, the Lakers (and maybe even Kobe) would consider moving Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum as a solid example of "gutting," which is reportedly the root of any holdups.
And finally, for any Laker fan losing sleep over the notion that a divorce would prevent Rick Fox from ever appearing on "Ugly Betty" with his ex, you're now back to getting eight hours a night again.
(Also, we're on the road again today, but we've let mission control know. Hopefully, the comments will go through at a reasonable clip.)
DEAR EXHELODRVR:
I think you have been misinformed. There are no prisms in "I hate Kobe" glasses. In fact, there aren't even lenses. People just wear them for the name brand and usually don't even need prescription eye-wear.
One should take extra precaution in wearing them, for they seem to attract bears.
-- G1
DEAR MAMBA24:
First of all, please email your address to: generic1@zombieslaying.com. I would like to bring you a cricket ba... I mean a nice plate of cookies to welcome you to the undead.
As far as your children are concerned, if you manage to turn your former girlfriend into a zombie, you need not worry about offspring being undead as well. Two undead make a not-dead. I think that's right. Don't quote me on that. Just try it and send pictures. Of your girlfriend.
-- G1
Posted by: generic_one | August 07, 2007 at 11:28 AM
Mamba,
"Undead, undead"
Those cancel each other out; like a double negative. You should be fine.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 11:30 AM
JJ,
Your first trade is good by me, but propose that to Indiana fans and they would absolutely laugh in your face. They get almost nothing of any significant value in that trade. Krstic is a nice piece, but not enough of one where you would give up your franchise guy his prime for.
New Jersey does alright because they get Bynum, but they are in full fledged "Win Now" mode with Kidd and Carter giving it their last stand, a huge project like Bynum doesn't do them any good.
The reason I criticise a lot of your deals is because some of the packages you suggest other teams get are horrendous. It has to make sense for them too. If you want to get an idea of what certain fan bases feel about anything, do to RealGM.com and then each teams site. If that isn't enough info then go to forumblueandgold.com and on the left hand side he links other teams blogs.
I think you'll realize how other teams feel about our players and what we can offer.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 07, 2007 at 11:39 AM
LakerTom, all that money Kobe makes in salary comes with a certain responsibility. This is the circus, afterall, that is where all this money comes from in the first place. People don't want to see or hear this whining crap about how he is so oppressed making $20m/season and that the team paying him $20m/season doesn't support him. Whether anybody wants to admit it or not, this is NOT a bad team Kobe has. Maybe it is not an elite team but is there a rule that only elite teams can make the finals? Maybe Kobe isn't up to the challenge of making the players around him good enough to have a shot at the finals? PG is VASTLY improved from last year, I don't see how anybody can argue that. We are also possibly, I did say possibly sitting on the equivalent of a significant free agent signing if Vlad Rad steps up this year, which is entirely possible.
Everybody is in a hurry to dump Bynum for ONeal but... look around the league, Chris Kaman is making A LOT of money compared to what we are paying Mihm and Bynum. Would anybody trade Bynum and Mihm for Kaman, just for this year? LOL! I am definitely in the NO! category for giving up Odom and Bynum for ONeal and just barely agreeable to sending Bynum and Kwame, etc. for ONeal. The best move the Lakers could make is to sit on Bynum and let the fans with the 2 minute attention spans scream their heads off! Then next year, they'll look like geniuses.
Posted by: TaosHum | August 07, 2007 at 11:45 AM
waffle, waffle, waffle, waffle...
JO's gonna hurt his thighs from riding the fence that hard
these nba superstars play too many mindgames. just be honest or don't speak at all FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
Posted by: CBuck | August 07, 2007 at 11:46 AM
AZ
If Don Nelson returns to Golden State, I really cant see them even going after JO. He isnt a good fit for their system.
MH
Posted by: michael h | August 07, 2007 at 11:56 AM
With Kupchak and Bird stirring the pot, this trade is going away just like the others. huh! Bird is playing stubborn and Mitch is just smart, what you call an overkill and overstatement of the day? If the lakers sucks for another year, this could be the beginning of the end of franchise.
Why not take the risks and move on.... we did in Brian Winters exchanging a white guy and several others against a Black Muslim follower of Malcolm X, hey is a genuine bruin....we did in trading a HOF Gail Goodrich to open a slot for #1 spot Magic...we traded Norm for Scott on and on....that has been the laker tradition, taking risks. Stop being cowards and dreaming in a La La land, that we'll have Kobe, Bynum, Lamar, JO just take the risk, let Kobe and JO handle the rest. If at the end of the day we have Lamar, that would be great, if not so what? just move on, other opportunities will come if you have good players with you. If you want to be optimistic and be a member of the exclusive GHF, go all the way, why bank on dreams on half-baked players also half-consistent, half-healthy and half-scrubby.
AK/BK, I'm blogging several thousand miles away from home so I hope you don't censor this post which you did on one of my posts that was said in jest.
This is what I posted yesterday (not exactly but the gist of it): we lost the opportunity on the following players in the past under the watch of Mitch Kupchak
Derek Anderson '05
Lorenzen Wright '05
Ron Artest '06
Carlos Boozer '06
Baron Davis '06
Al Harrington '06
Chris Webber '07
Jason Kidd '07
Luther Head '07
Bonzi Wells '07
Steve Blake '07
Papaloukas '07
Juan Navarro '07
Kevin Garnett '07
Jermaine ONeal is getting colder again...another lame excuse of being good steward.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 07, 2007 at 12:00 PM
Are there any lakers insiders who can comment on Andrew Bynums summer progress??? Has he gained anymore muscle? How's his moves looking? Is he still working with Kareem? What's his attitude like now?
Posted by: Mike Kaczmarek | August 07, 2007 at 12:01 PM
Mamba24/10
I got your back! Roll call Remix!!!
Posted by: Charles | August 07, 2007 at 12:01 PM
AZ:
No doubt both guys have heavy pressure to make a deal. They both lose if they cannot pull of the trade. It will be interesting to see who blinks first. I am also excited about JO’s comments, especially that he has talked to Kobe. It almost makes me willing to cave in and give up Lamar plus Bynum but I still believe strongly that Bynum is the prize that Bird covets. While this obviously ups the pressure on Mitch, it probably puts even more pressure on Bird because JO clearly said that he will opt out if there is no trade. Bird will blink. Bird will blink. Bird…
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 07, 2007 at 12:05 PM
The guy on 1st and 10, Skp something or the other, just said the Lakers should offer Odom, Bynum, and Walton for JO. I'm no Walton fan but what kind of thinking is that?
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | August 07, 2007 at 12:10 PM
Bird sets his price!
Just heard that Bird is asking for LO, Bynum and Walton
for JO
Posted by: Steve in Denver | August 07, 2007 at 12:10 PM
JJ, that trade doesn't work for Jersey in so many ways, it blows my mind...why the heck would they want to get Kwame and Bynum but giving up Kristic? That's a team that's looking to win now, they want an upgrade this season. If they're keeping Kidd, they want JO, not Socks.
Posted by: Michael A | August 07, 2007 at 12:15 PM
indy wants bynum, lo, and luke for jo...riip offf!
Posted by: the WOLF | August 07, 2007 at 12:26 PM
G1 - You crazy, man. Keep it up. yeah, I think Pittsburgh is a good place for a zombie outbreak. So's LA...
I still think if anything gets done with JO, it's just as likely to happen with the Nets. I think they can offer more without gutting their team as much.
Posted by: Michael A | August 07, 2007 at 12:34 PM
Oh, AK? Nice link, that Electric boogaloo stuff cracked me up. It's been a while.
Posted by: Michael A | August 07, 2007 at 12:34 PM
jay,
hahaha! for even a fraction of that was to happen its already bordering on surreal! goood for you though!
Posted by: the WOLF | August 07, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Let's say this whole JO thing doesn't happen because neither side will budge on the Lamar-Bynum package (not completely unlikely). Kobe's reaction is not going to be pretty. That being said, I've tried to think of some teams that Kobe wouldn't have a problem going to where we could get value back and one of them is Dallas. Now, Dallas doesn't have the expiring contracts that we would want, but that's where a third team comes in.
So here you go:
Lakers trade Kobe Bryant and Jordan Farmar or Crittendon
Lakers receive Josh Howard, Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Jason Williams, 1st in 2008 from Dallas
Dallas trades Josh Howard, Diop, Harris, Terry
Dallas receives Kobe Bryant and Farmar/Crittendon
Miami trades Jason Williams
Miami receives Jason Terry
Why for the Lakers?
If the Kobe situation gets to a point where we can't make him happy (could very likely happen, and the only reason you trade him) we would get $11+ million in expirings in Jason Williams and Diop, Josh Howard who is a young All-Star, Devin Harris who is a top PG prospect, and a draft pick.
Why for Dallas?
Um, they get the best player on the planet. Done.
Why for Miami?
Really, Smush Parker is your big off-season addition? Really? Need a PG in the worst way, Jason Terry is good. Enough said.
We're not going to get equal value for Kobe no matter what, and of course I'd love to ship him out East, but we add two young starters who are HUGE defensive upgrades at the positions we got abused at most last year (the 1 and 3) and we will have over $20 million in expiring deals that come off the books (anyone for Gilbert Arenas as free agent to play the 2?).
Even without that we'd have this
PG Fisher/Harris/Farmar or Crittendon/Williams
SG Howard/Evans/Sasha
C Kwame/Diop/Mihm/Bynum
SF Walton/Vlad
PF Odom/Turiaf/Cook
Of course that's 16 guys on the roster, but you could definitely package a couple or more for impact guys if you so desire. The thing is, overall we'd be better and in a much better place moving forward to rebuild.
SG
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 07, 2007 at 12:40 PM
Shaq and Kobe had only role players like Horry, Fox and Fisher!
JO and Kobe can also have role players like MIHM, RAD and FISH. Besides Kobe into his prime at 28 is much better now than four-five-six years ago. JO also going into his prime at 28. I think giving up Odom and Bynum is the obvious thing to do.
Shaq can not make free throws and is always fouled at the end of games, JO will play at the end of games and will be a threat at defensive end and at the offensive end! HELLO! How good do you think KOBE AND JO will be together at 28! How good of role players are we going to need? We already know HORRY< FOX< FISH worked out the last time. We alreday have so many role players in this roster, what we need is another ALL-STAR like JERMAINE ONEAL at the LOW POST at his PRIME!
If I am the GM of either Pacers or the Lakers this deal would be done already! As I think neither the Pacers nor the Lakers need Lamar Odom badly. Pacers has DIOGU, SHANE WILLIAMS, GRANGER, MURPHY, DUNLEAVY. Lakers will have ONEAL, TURIAF, VLAD, WALTON.
Lamar Odom should not be a deal breaker for both teams. Lakers and Pacers should want Kwame's contract MUCH MORE, than the need of Odom's position and 14 M a year!
It won't hurt to have LAMAR with Kobe and JO, if Mitch can pull it thru. But to say we need LAMAR to make us an elite team is an over statement. KOBE and JO with the right role players the LAKERS are already an elite team. I would rather have Kwame's expiring contract knowing I have Turaif, Vlad, Walton, Evans.
Although I would rather keep Bynum if i could and offer Odom and Kwame for JO, but that's impossible because we all know BIRD is after BYNUM. You see if KWAME was not a failure an ODOM/KWAME would have been attractive!
That's why I keep saying........ the cause of all Lakers problem is not MITCH, defintely not Kobe, not Shaq leaving... it is KWAME BROWN! Smush and kwame fooled a lot of people, but atleast they only got me fooled for one season 05-06. After that i kept saying these two are CANCERS BIG TIME GALORE!
We have the BEST NBA PLAYER IN THE WORLD! We just got fooled by the Smush and Kwame. Otherwise it will all be different. JO and role pplayers will be enough to get us back to the top without Smush and Kwame as role players of course!!
Enough said!
Go get Jremaine Oneal! It is what KOBE wants! KOBE gets!
Posted by: Staples 24 | August 07, 2007 at 12:42 PM
what about this trade, http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~2748~1998~3197~1016~24~615~2773&teams=11~11~11~11~11~13~13~13&te=&cash=
Posted by: abarrezueta09@newarka.edulaker hopeful | August 07, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Okay, how bout this for an idea.
For the people suggesting that Indiana will give up Danny Granger as part
of the deal, forget it. Indiana is rebuilding, so there's no way they'd give up
one of their main building blocks.
What they really want is Bynum (the center with potential) and Odom,
who's a good player now to insure that they don't end up getting jacked
on the deal if Bynum turns out to be average.
So make the deal Odom + Bynum + Vujacic for O'Neal + a first round pick.
Indiana gets
1. the two players they want most
2. another young player who is also an expiring contract
3. 2 million dollars of immediate reduction in salary
Lakers get Jermaine O'Neal and a draft pick from a team that's not likely
to make the playoffs next year (unless Bynum becomes an instant beast
of the East).
I know it seems like a lot to some people to give up both LO and AB
for JO, but JO is a better second option than LO. Socks is only like the
4th or 5th best player on the team at this point (Kobe, Lamar, Walton,
Brown, Bynum).
The only reason you wouldn't go for this deal is if you are SURE that
Bynum will be at an all-star level before Kobe walks away or forces a
trade. Are you sure? I'm not. I think there's a good chance, but
there's still a possibility he could peak as a good center and not a great
center.
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 12:45 PM
Thinking that Larry Bird would give Magic a better deal because he is a friend is a really silly, no, make that stupid, idea.
That is one of the most competitive individuals you will ever find. Bird will not make a worse deal for his team just because the guy on the other end of the phone is a friend. He has too much integrity for that. Just like he would not have given Magic a free trip through the lane on a layup.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 12:45 PM
JJ:
“Andrew and LakerTom.
I see that you focused on the second suggestion but said nothing about the first. Typical approach by you too.”
I don’t know about Andrew, but my response was to your first option or “simple trade that works for all three teams.” I didn't even comment on your second option.
The reason I don’t think the first option will work is that I believe that Bird’s primary target in trading JO is Andrew Bynum, which is why I question why he would be willing to take Krstic, Collins, and Kwame in lieu. If you go back and look at the articles that first came out when a JO trade to Lakers was brought up, you will see that Bird’s objective was to get a star at center and Bynum was the player he identified.
As to my approach being “typical,” if you check back on my prior posts addressed to you, you will find that I usually am very complementary and appreciative of your posts. I have disagreed with some aspects such as your support for Sasha as a starting guard, but generally think most of your posts show excellent understanding and grasp of the game and the league. I have always considered myself to be in your corner but I guess I’m not.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 07, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Here we go again. Mitch please get JO. Kobe has already played his GM roles behind the scene. JO has come out to speak since Bird has done nothing since JO secret request to be traded has been made.
Now with JO, Lakers have a chance to dominate in the west. Larry will take Bynum and other assets without Odom (Please include Magic in the talks with Indiana and If possible Send KAB on loan with Bynum for at least a season). Lakers will be wise to then try and get Artest from the King. Kobe and Fisher can run the triangle. We will strangle San Antonio and the Suns will find it difficult to score since Kobe and Fish will practically mark down Nash.
These are the moves to make the Lakers relevant again. I say again, Artest is a better fit for the Lakers than Lamar. Our priority, get Oneil without giving up Lamar, then trade Lamar for Artest. Lamar takes time and the ball away from Kobe and they play similar roles which makes them a difficult 1-2 punch. Anybody remember what Artest and Bonzi did to the Spurs last 2 years. The spurs could not match up with either of them. Lakers have a good chance. And we might be able to get Bonzi Well from the Rockets....Please somebody talk to the Laker's GM..He needs to focus on these moves...We need a championship this year..........
Posted by: Peter | August 07, 2007 at 12:59 PM
JJ,
"Jason Collins, Nenad Krstic, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Jordan Farmar and Cash"
I can't see Indiana being interested in that.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 12:59 PM
Generic_one,
In Mamba's letter, he states "Is it wrong for me to want to turn my former girlfriend into a Zombie also so we can continue our relationship."
If his girlfriend is "former" then there is no relationship to "continue". He should have said "restart", or something similar.
I suspect a zombie - a lot of times they aren't very careful with those types of details. Sort of like the old saying "If you give a million monkeys typewriters, eventually every possible anti-Kobe post will be written." But it's not all that hard to find logic errors in those monkey-written anti-Kobe posts
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 01:06 PM
Craig W:
I agree that having a trio of stars such as Kobe, Jermaine, and Lamar will definitely put us into luxury tax area but that is true of every other team out there with three stars, just as adding KG will put the Celtics well over the luxury tax.
The league is entering a new era of competitiveness and I think you will see more teams willing to pay a luxury tax in order to compete. In the end, the Lakers need to win and be an elite team to continue to reap in the money as a business. The formula is to spend more money to make more money. It will work if we compete for and win championships. If we don’t, then that is another story. We need to worry right now about building a team that can compete for the title. Otherwise, we will lose Kobe and have to start rebuilding from scratch.
We have this year and next to before Lamar’s contract runs out and Kobe has an option to leave and JO has just three years left on his contract. If the KB, JO, LO trio doesn’t win a title in the next two years, then the Lakers will have $36M in expiring contracts with Kobe and Lamar after 2008/9 season and another $23M in expiring contracts the following year. The team will actually be in an excellent position to get under the cap and rebuild with free agents and trades. It’s not like we are signing up for $60M tied up in three guys for the rest of the century. It’s just two to three years at most – unless we are winning championships. Then who cares how much luxury tax we pay. Like the Knicks, we are a big revenue team whose resale value soars when the team is in championship mode.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 07, 2007 at 01:15 PM
I remember the day when the Lakers made trades to win titles. No titles will be won with this sorry-ass group. Kobe will leave, and we will have nothing for a long, long time. Nothing to suggest, either. Front office is totally ineffective, lost inside the woods. No way out. Have fun this year, Laker fans.
Posted by: Paulie | August 07, 2007 at 01:26 PM
Hey guys,
I just heard on AM570 Radio that Bird is only willing to offer JO in exchange for LO, Bynum AND Luke Walton. In other words, now that JO has spoken up about wanting to be traded to the Lakers, Bird has driven up the asking price. Even so, I'm sure if the Lakers didn't have a braindead GM and owner they'd be able to negotiate something more reasonsble.
Posted by: hal9000 | August 07, 2007 at 01:28 PM
Randy Hill in Fox sports about a possible JO/Odom trade:
"Removing the peripheral trade fluff, an Odom-for-O'Neal trade seems like a slight upgrade for the Lakers. While their numbers are similar (Lamar's assists make up for his lesser scoring), both players have injury histories and enough self-actualization to play a fine second fiddle to Bryant.
As a facilitator type, Odom often requires half of the shot clock before making his play. This can be a bit dicey when you consider that these maneuvers often are accomplished while Kobe waits on the perimeter, looking too much like an unreasonably optimistic panhandler.
While Odom has demonstrated guts and a willingness to sacrifice elements of his game for the sake of L.A.'s star system, he still spends an inordinate amount of time debating with referees and wouldn't go to his right after spending several hours listening to Newt Gingrich.
O'Neal, who — like Bryant — has spent considerable time under the representation umbrella of agent Arn Tellem, may be ready to join Kobe and engage in frequent battles with Western Conference bigs such as Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer and Pau Gasol.
But dealing Odom and Bynum would leave Kobe and Jermaine with fewer playmates than Tom Hanks had in Castaway. Getting rid of Bynum now also might create a public-relations crisis when fans remind us that moving him months ago would have yielded a lineup featuring Kobe, Odom and Jason "The Anti-Smush" Kidd."
Posted by: jorema | August 07, 2007 at 01:29 PM
mamba 24/10:
"According to ESPN radio JO now claims "if he is
not traded he will welcome that with open arms."
What kind of wishy washy BullSh*t is this. JO to hell
with your broken down down a#s, I'd rather have
LO any damn way"
The only reason JO has "backtracked" from his previous statements is that Larry Bird is pissed off about what he said. Larry probably called JO after he went public and gave him hell for saying that "Larry is a hard man to deal with" and basically taking the Laker's side in a potential trade.
JO still wants to come to the Lakers... it's just that he needed to tone down his request to calm down the Pacers management.
Posted by: hal9000 | August 07, 2007 at 01:31 PM
Skip Bayless think the lakers can content for a title if they get Jermaine O'neal. I agree with that! Kobe can run the offense better then Odom! Odom is a better post player then a backcourt player! JO is a great post player that draw double teams better then Odom! JO is a better shot blocker then Odom and Bynum combine! I'm tire of these guards getting lay-ups because are big men can't jump or lazy to try to block it! Remember JO lead the pacers to a 60 win season and third in the MVP voting! He play with a edge that Odom just don't have! We should be thankful for the pacers willing to do this deal for Odom and Bynum! I personaly think the Pacers must be crazy to give up J.O. for a no all-star Lamar and Bynum! To y all thinking pacers going to give that kind of a player without odom and bynum is a fantasy! JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS!
Posted by: JERMAINE THE KOBE FAN | August 07, 2007 at 01:37 PM
TaosHum:
"The best move the Lakers could make is to sit on Bynum and let the fans with the 2 minute attention spans scream their heads off! Then next year, they'll look like geniuses."
So, you're basically putting the team on Bynum's shoulders and making an unskilled, uninspired, lazy 7-footer the future of the franchise... good luck with that.
Then again, if you've saying the Lakers should literally "sit on Bynum", maybe that's the best move... suffocate him until he is motivated enough to play with passion.
Posted by: hal9000 | August 07, 2007 at 01:37 PM
People who discard Jermaione ONeill benefits in a game are just not aware about what make a team powerfull.
Look Boozer and how his game impact Utah. Without his powerfull game inside Utah is a mediocre team. Is clear Utah have some other very good pieces to keep defense honest without hanging around Boozer.
Now. Jermaine is way better than Boozer. Boozer doesn't have any kind of mid range shot. He is stronger than Jermaine, but in shot blockling Jermaine is one of the best in the game.
A trio of Fisher (Who meshed well with Boozer) Kobe and Jermaine, will be a force even in the west. If Indy want Bynum/Lamar they should give us something extra of value, a usefull role player without a bloated contract.
Posted by: jorema | August 07, 2007 at 01:39 PM
I just heard from the Cannons that the Pacers want in exchange for JO; Lamar, Bynum, and Walton. I think that is too much to go give up for JO. He would be a good fit, but I think giving up three for him is too much. We have to keep either Bynum or Lamar and just add someone else in the mix.
Here is my trade proposal that could work (or at least in my own opinion)
JO + Granger = Kwame, Lamar, BCook and Farmar.
Pacers will get a young PG who is promising, Lamar who is about equal or a litle better than JO, and Kwame who can basically fill in the middle. They can even throw in another player like Brian Cook. This trade will also match salary wise.
Lakers will then get JO and Granger. Lakers will get what they want in JO and still keep Bynum who is going to get better. It also leaves the Lakers with some room to get free agents for veterans minimum.
Here is what Lakers line up would look like:
Center Bynum/Mihm
PF JO/Turiaf
SF Luke/Granger/VRad
SG Kobe/Mo/Sasha
PG D-Fish/JC/Coby Karl
That is a total of 12 players in our roster. We need to fill in a few more spots through free agency signing.
C Chris Webber
F PJ Brown or James Posey
I think Chris will be a good addition in the middle specially with the Triangle offense. You don't need a big center to run the triangle. CWebb is an excellent passre and he can still shoot the j's from the perimeter. That is a big plus for the Triangle offense.
Granger is a very good player. He has a lot of upside in his game. He averaged 13.9 pg last year and 5 reb a game. He should have been picked before Bynum during the 2005 Draft, but we can't change that now. In his two years with the Pacers he has tallied a 11 pts pg and 5 reb a game. I think this makes a lot of sense.
Lakers line up with theis trade:
Center Bynum/Mihm/C'Webb
PF JO/Turiaf/Posey or PJ Brown
SF Luke/Granger/VRad
SG Kobe/Mo/Sasha
PG D-Fish/JC/Coby Karl
That's it. Good Luck Kupcake!!!!
"55 WIN BANDWAGON" SIGN ME UP... ESPECIALLY WITH MY LINE-UP!! lol
PEACE LAKERS NATION
JUNO
Posted by: Juno | August 07, 2007 at 01:40 PM
unless your a member of the buss family or a season ticket holder, why would anyone care about the luxury tax? none of that should be relevant to anyone here. in fact, anything dealing with money shouldnt matter to us here w/ the exception of the salary cap. i know anyone can bring up the ticket prices, parking, yada, yada, blah, but 99% of us consistantly watch or listen to the lakers anyway.
Posted by: the WOLF | August 07, 2007 at 01:47 PM
Oh yeah, one more thing.
Kobe makes negative comments about his GM and he's a backstabbing
bad guy. J.O. makes negative comments about his GM and then
backpedals a bit and everyone ignores it.
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | August 07, 2007 at 01:48 PM
Andrew Z,
No offense, but based on what you're saying, there is no trade the Lakers would be willing to do at this point that would bring back JO.....So why are we still talking about it????
I strongly believe that your view of what seems unreasonable to other teams is really not a true view. Let me put to you like this....would you have thought that Shaq could be traded for Butler, Odom, Grant and a draft pick? Would that have seemed possible to you? It happened. Would it have seemed reasonable or possible to you for Zach Randolph to be traded to New York for Steve Francis and Channing Frye? It happened. My point is that it all depends on what value the other team places on those players and how they fit into their future plans. I have thought for some time on here that people incorrectly value our players as well as others on the market. For instance, some really are criticial of Andrew Bynum, but then they suggest trades where he is the main piece. If you think so little of him, how can you value him so high in a trade? Some will claim that outside of Kobe and possibly Lamar the Lakers are nothing....yet they suggest that other teams trade someting for our nothing. It just doesn't make sense.
EVERY trade I suggest is not only based on what is financially possible, it is also based on several of the things those teams have voiced interest in obtaining. For instance, Krstic was already suggested in a trade scenario with Indiana and according to the reports, the reason why that trade didn't go through was because of marcus not being included. At the same time, Indiana has apparently...according to reports asked for Bynum and Odom as well as twice required that the Lakers take back one of their large unmoveable contracts...Tinsley or Murphy. Using all of that informaiton, and putting it together, it would seem to me that a trade where Farmar and Krstic are included would seem to be reasonable at worst. Considering that Krstic is currently producing much better than Bynum and Farmar is coming off of a decent rookie season, it isn't crazy to think that Indiana might be interested in a deal where they are the main pieces. Plus, Jefferson was part of that earlier rumored trade scenario, which means that Indiana was willing to actually take back a larger extended contract as well. now if they were willing to do that despite continued reports from Bird that their goal was to become younger and clear salary cap, is it far off to think that they would settle for salary cap relief instead?
My point is that I am not simply pulling these scenarios out of thin air. Unlike most on here, I am actually attempting to look at it from a reasonable standpoint taking both sides into account.
Posted by: JJ | August 07, 2007 at 01:48 PM
Now with the comments of JO, Cupcake must get this deal done now while the iron is still hot. Who cares if the team goes into the luxuary tax territory. Kobe will stay and LO and JO will take a little pay cut to keep this core together for years to come. In this day of age you need more than just 2 capable scorers to win the Chip.
Posted by: Goods | August 07, 2007 at 01:48 PM
Tao,
"PG is VASTLY improved from last year, I don't see how anybody can argue that."
Anyone who says PG is "VASTLY improved" hasn't been paying attention. Derek Fisher had defensive issues THREE YEARS AGO when he left the Lakers. He is slower now than he was then. The Warriors let him go. Utah did not put up a struggle to keep him. That ought to tell you something. Look at his stats from the past two years. He is, at best, a mediocre shooter. Not as good as Smush, in fact. He is smarter, and a better locker room/bench presence. Overall, a slight improvement at best. People with your viewpoint vis-a-vis Fisher are thinking back to the three trophies and the .4 shot, NOT to the reality of 2007-8.
The question is not if this is an elite team right now, the question is this roster likely to become a serious title contender in the next 2-3 years. At this point, the answer is, "No, that is not likely to happen." I don't blame Kobe for not wanting to remain in the first round for the rest of his career.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 01:49 PM
Generic_one,
zombies laying.com? What kind of sick porn is that?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 01:50 PM
Four trades to improve the Lakers this off-season:
1. Trade Radmanovic to Heat and Odom and Kwame to Indiana for Jermaine, Murphy and Wright:
http://tinyurl.com/3yjnow
2. Trade Cook + (Hawks) 2008 #2 draft pick for Pietrus
3. Trade Farmar, Pietrus, Wright and (Lakers) 2008 #1 to Atlanta for Claxton, Smith and 2008 #2 draft pick.
Bynum+Mihm
ONeal+Turiaf+Murphy
Smith+Walton
Bryant+Evans+Vujacic
Fisher+Claxton+Crittendon
Posted by: any_one_mouse | August 07, 2007 at 01:54 PM
TaosHum:
I agree with you. I still like the team we have put together, especially now that we have replaced Smush with Fisher and Crittendon. I also believe that Bynum will become a star down the road. And I am against trading Bynum AND Lamar for JO, although JO’s recent comments have tempted me to say we HAVE to get this guy. If we can trade Bynum, Brown, et al for JO, however, that would give us a great trio of stars that would enable us to compete with anybody. That is what I am hoping will happen. But I agree that it is not the end of the world for this team, although it could get a little shaky with Kobe.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 07, 2007 at 01:56 PM
kobe apologist
"Wait, I thought no one wanted to play with Kobe? Maybe it's only Jermaine O'Neal, then ..."
i've restated my position that "nobody, but Jermaine O'neal, wants to play with a malcontent kobe bryant" fair?
in all seriousness, if we can con Indiana out of JO without giving up LO, I think we'll be in a good place next season if [emphasis on "if"] kobe can be a good teammate and leader, win or lose. we'll see my mortal enemy....
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 01:56 PM
Come on JO. Don't back off your trade demands! What a looser. He's as limp as a boned fish...
He's so limp he reminds me of myself that time I paid $200 for L.A's ugliest call girl...
Both times...
Too bad about Hal. If he wasn't pure LA, I don't know what is.
Anyone else get the feeling Magic liked Bird more than Bird liked Magic?
Wes
Posted by: wes | August 07, 2007 at 02:03 PM
lakertom
"I think Kobe has already apologized and said that he wished he had handled the situation better."
in the interest of keeping peace in the midde east, i'll respectfully disagree with you.
"The pressure still needs to be on the Lakers to bring in the held the team needs to become an elite team that can compete for a championship."
i believe there is good pressure (ie, the way Paul Pierce handled his situation in Boston) and bad pressure (ie, the way Kobe handled a similar situation). i believe kobe's actions (or inactions) cost us a legitimate chance at KG, but that's water under the bridge.
"Without getting into an irresolvable argument about Kobe, it’s not easy to play great team basketball when the rest of the team has problems catching the ball or making a shot. I thought Kobe did a great job the first half of the year. "
we have different views about being a good leader/teammate. my definition of a good leader/teammate is sticking by the team, win or lose. it's easy to be a good leader during good times.
"Then came the injuries and the failed Kidd trade and Kobe sort of went off trying to do it all himself because he lost confidence in the rest of the team."
good leaders don't lose confidence in their guys.
"This is the flipside of the competitiveness that makes Kobe such a great player."
i respectfully disagree with. kobe's so-called "greatness" has been acomplished when shaq was in charge. post-shaq, i've seen nothing but individual accomplishments at the expense of the team.
"Surround him with guys who can play and he will become the consummate leader and team player, as he was during the Shaq years."
i believe during the shaq-era, shaq was the leader which produced several championships. kobe was not the leader, although he'd like to take credit for it, but a role player. so far, kobe as a leader has not produced anything meaningful in the context of team accomplishments.
"Better players around Kobe and Kobe playing great team basketball. Right?"
what i want is kobe to be a better teammate and leader and the good players will follow. i guess we have differing POV, but i respect your take.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 07, 2007 at 02:09 PM
I say we offer Indiana, Kwame, Radmonovic, Farmer and next year's first round pick. That's it. Don't give up Odom or Bynum.
Bird and the Pacers are losing leverage everyday. O'Neal can opt out after next year, which puts Indiana in a tough spot if they try and deal him to a team he doesn't want to go to. (i.e. - Garnett, initially turning down trade to Boston). Indiana is also in the market for a good young promising guard which they would get in Farmer, whose salary is low. Kwame as bad as he get's butchered by the blog is still a decent big and only 25yrs old. He also is going into the last year of his contract. If Indiana decides not to resign him (or trade) that's $9 milion off of their cap, which is weighed down with Murphy and Dunleavy's contracts. Vlad will give them offense from the parameter, ala Peja Stojakovic at only 5 mil a year. And then thrown in next year's first round pick.
Posted by: LT79 Lakers Fan | August 07, 2007 at 02:18 PM
All those whinning for the trigger to be pulled and send Bynum away we will the same people who worry about whether or not mamagement can keep him when he's a free-agent in a few years !
As for Kobe, time to step up make it a goal of averaging 8+ assists a game and making your teammates better !
Posted by: lalakerlover | August 07, 2007 at 02:22 PM
The Warriors would be stupid to let Don Nelson go. He is a former Celtic - all he has to do ask Ainge, McHale, or BIrd, and they will give him anybody he wants off their roster. Those former Celtics will always ruin their own team to help each other.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 07, 2007 at 02:27 PM
JO, at 19, put up numbers worse than Bynum's last year at 19 and was considered a bust in Portland. Then he developed in a good, not great, big man.
Bynum and LO are much too much to give up right now, and this would be deal forced by Kobe and media and fan push to do SOMETHING, anything this off season.
I wouldl rather go into the season standing pat than doing this. The 3 headed monster of Kwame, Bynum and Mihm rather than JO at center, and LO still at PF.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | August 07, 2007 at 02:30 PM