Either the price is right or no Boogaloo

In the category will these guys even learn

JO in going public with his desire/request/openness to play in LA or NJ has decreared the chances of it happening.

Go ask Kobe how that worked out for him and the Lakers

******************************************************************************************************
ATTENTION BLOGGERS : TODAY IS J.J. DAY
*****************************************************************************************************
PAST HONOREES: MIKE TENIENTE, EDWIN GUECO, KLBEAST, GENERIC_ONE
NEXT HONOREE: FAITH
****************************************************************************************************
Do you remember that Laker playoff game when the lead kept changing and finally the Spurs hit
what we thought was the final shout and the whole Spurs team started celebrating? Do you remember
how you felt? And then with .04 seconds left Fish hit that trey for the winner? Remember how you felt.
WELL, DO YA? Well that’s sort of how it is with JJ’s Bloggings sometimes they make you mad as hell
and some times they make you say DAMMN this is some of the best stuff I’ve ever read. To some
JJ’s blogs are an acquired taste, but as they say “once you read one you can’t stop reading them”.
True the man is a touch sensitive - half the Blog had to spend valuable time we could have spent
arguing among each other and cursing each other out - to try and convince JJ to not desert the blog.
And praise the Lord he didn’t. And so on this August the 9th we would like to salute one of the
kindest, most Intelligent, most thin skin, and most astute elder statesmen of the Blog JJ. And to add
a personal word I was having a tuff time a little while ago and thanks to some advice from MR. JJ as
well as KL Beast everything worked out. So J man I personally would like to thank you. And don’t think
you can pull this leaving sh*t every time your feelings are hurt and get all these touching don’t go letters.
That Sh*t is good for one time, AND ONE TIME ONLY DO YOU HEAR ME MR.! LOL! If anybody knows
I know. So enjoy your day Mr. JJ and I’ll be looking for that check lol,

IN OTHER NEWS: REGGIE MILLER considers coming out of retirement to join the CELTICS.

*********** BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND ********************************************************************
Get it done Mitch, get it done fast
The Free Agents are fading,
Don’t end up picking last
Get it done Mitch, Get it done not for us
Get it done Mitch
You’re running out of trust
Get it done Mitch, I’m not taking sides
Get it done Mitch
Damn, have you no pride
You Once played with legends, Like Kareem and Magic
Now Jim Buss gives you orders
Man that’s so damn tragic
Get it done Mitch, This is our last cry
If you don’t get it done Mitch
Kobe will say goodbye and so will I
**********************************************************************************************************

55 WIN BANDWAGON MEMBERS:
(1) Laker Tom (2) Marty (3) Hobbit (4) Fearless Whack Job (5) Mamba24/10
(6) David Whang (7) BD (8) Dan Dan the Laker Fan (9) Long Time Laker Fan
(10) Roky (11) JoninJapan(In Canada) 12) JUNO (13) KEIFO,
(14) Alexinho17 (15) TALIQ (16) GENERIC_ONE (17) VIOLATER
(18) Twoody (19) SLO Gal (20) HobbitMage
Members at heart
(1) Bob
(2) Faith
************************************************************************************************************
WEARY-OF-BANDWAGON BANDWAGON MEMBERS
(1) Cbuck
(2) J. Walter WeatherMan
************************************************************************************************************
29 WIN BANDWAGON MEMBER
(1) SONNY BELFAST
************************************************************************************************************
AND NOW ROLL CALL
(1) FAITH, MIKE T. TALIQ, Edwin Gueco,, KEIFO, Mamba24Fan4Life, Fan of Mamba,Wolf,
JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ.
THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW,
KIWI, WOW, PEACE, J_COOL, DAVID WHANG, ADAM KILEY, LAKERSRYDEORDIE,
FISH_GUY,TIM-4-SHOW, THA_ SHOW, WESJOENIXON, BAYWOO, THE_D, SBPIMP,
CHARLES, Precious, NEVER, CALI KING, RICK FRIEDMAN,THIRTY2, EXHELODRVR,
GENERIC_ONE, TWOODY, JJ, AJAX, MITCHELL., LAKERTOM, LAKERFAN, CHARLES,
KHANG VMAN, KOREY, XTRO, MCGARNAGLE, GUGY, GDChild,Laker4Life,
KL BEAST, Jorema, FearlessWhackJob, MARTY, JANDRO, LAKERFAZE, PhxLkrFAN,
TexasLaker, BOB, TreacherousBalloons, EagleBoy, JR., EASTCOASTJESSIE, Zakee,
Swettual, Utzworld, Andrew Z, LAL Fan, BRANDON C., Kinglakernidas, BlackMamba24,
FKILLAH, CYRUS(VENTRILIQUIST), RespectMyAuthorith, Waterboy, Hariyahu,
ZEN, SARCOCOP,Staples24, Bobby, COMPTONS FINEST, MIGUELINHO, Greek Dude,
SOCALIFE, HAL9000, Greekdude, Michael J, Michael H, Michael A., Rick Friedman,
Gunner24, GINO, FATTY, CBUCK,LAKERGURL, CRITICAL BEATDOWN, PFUNK36,
PAUL LEE, Jay EL, SocalSpider , WEAVE MAN, JON KAVULIC, Tajluck, Alexinho17
BERKLEYLAKER, Dice8Up DION, KARL, CRAIG, MITCHELL, Lakers4Life,
JR, Dascilla, tellitlikeitisNik Kannan, GABE, SEAN P., HanSoulFood, HollywoodJack,
Jay Jay, TaosHum, HOBBITMAGE, Caeser, Obel, CHITOWNLAKER, ANGRYLAKER
wiZo, MagicShaq, HugoBoss, OSCAR, RDLEE, RealityBites, LakerLarry, Bucky, LEELO,
Juno, LakerLifer, C.S. JOVA, BLAZE1BX, Tripgame3, TSPHERE, SIXONEZERO
Mfeige, Reggie, Hollywood Jack, Reality Check Time, Jack In Hollywood, SLO Gal
JONINJAPAN(INCANADA), VIOLATER, LT Laker Fan, , KATE, TROY, Mainor
JEFF, ANDY B., SWANWORLD, PUPLE&GOLD_4EVA, BENNY BLANCA,
EMMA, TIM IN SYDNEY RISING STAR, LakerBake, JuanMan888,Blkthght06
,Ghost of Spiderman, STEVE IN DENVER, GUY OWANLELE, Lincoln Laker
MITCH KUPCHAK, JERRY BUSS, PHIL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT
Marc Gasol, Sun Yue, Shamond, Williams, Ronny Turiaf, V. Radmanovic,
Maurice Evans, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, Luke Walton, Brian Cook,
Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Coby Karl, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar, Jarvis Critterton, JERMAINE ONEAL???

ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES
THE HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
ELGIN BAYLOR, JERRY WEST, PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, SILK
COACHED BY THE 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON AND
NO ONE AND NOTHING WILL EVER DIVIDE OR CONQUER US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER

I don't know why, but "no Boogaloo" reminds me of "no soup for you". Perhaps it's because it has the same number of syllables and rhymes.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kNwbjcuQUv8

AK... maybe once you run out of Breakin clips, you could move on to Seinfeld.

Kobe on Kimmel:

Big opportunity to squash all of this mess...didn't happen ! Keep in mind I'm a huge Kobe fan and a life long laker fan but last night was a chance to make some sorta statement ! Even that nagging injury I predicted may have sprung up last night. A Vacuum cleaner though was the culprit.
AK/BK,
This may be out there but do you think theres a chance Kobe could go play in Europe ? Thus still playing ball but not with our Lakers. I personally doubt he'd give up any chance at Kareem's ( my chilhood idol) all-time scoring record, but at this point we don't know what he's thinking. But then a again Mr. Buss could have canned his son Jim ( aka the source) and ended all of this months ago !

LO: 15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 0.6 bpg, .47 fg%. (in the Western Conf.)
JO: 19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.6 bpg, .44 fg%. (in the Eastern Conf.)

Trading LO for JO is a sideways move. Plus LO is a very unique and special player who can do things that no one else can do at his size. I just hope the pressure will force Bird to accept a different package for O'Neal that doesn't include LO.

Generic_one,
"i don't know why, but "no Boogaloo" reminds me of "no soup for you". Perhaps it's because it has
the same number of syllables and rhymes"

G stop this, Stop this now! You are so esoteric LOL!
You know it reminds me of No Bo Bo! That's Sh*t for the uninitiated.

Ajax,
"Trading LO for JO is a sideways move. Plus LO is a very unique and special player"

MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN ! You read my mind.

Best line on Jimmy Kimmel:

Kobe - Yeah I tweaked my back the other day

Kimmel - Is it sore from carrying the Lakers the last 3 years?

AK-

Speakin' of Breakin'...check out this clip of a young Alphonso Ribeiro (aka: Carlton) selling an instructional book on Breakin' and Poppin'!!!

http://www.ejb.com/video/16844/Break_and_pop.html

finally, somebody comes out and says what those of us against the Jermaine ONeal trade have been saying:

"One general manager wonders about O'Neal, "What's a fair-market value for a guy with that contract and injury history, coming off a bad year like that? He's an All-Star, in the East. But where does he rank on the list of forwards in the league? Not even Top 10."
----------------------

still wanna give up Odom AND Bynum for ONE GUY and his giant contract? Then when Kobe leaves, we can build around... a "not even" top 10 forward with a giant contract! Hoofa!

Do Not Trade Bynum Away!!! Kobe will walk no matter who the Lakers get. Bynum and Crittenton are the franchise's future. They may even have a monster upcoming year.

Kobe did more than just appear on Jimmy Kimmel on Wednesday night. Here's the scoop on TMZ.com:

http://www.tmz.com/2007/08/09/kobe-and-wife-rebound-from-divorce-rumors/

Whatever's going on with Kobe and the Lakers, the dude definitely knows how to be out and about in style!

I think the Lakers have two options right now:

1) Don't do anything else, pray to God Kobe doesn't do anything else but show up to camp and play, and use their increasingly valuable trade assets later in the season to make major moves.

*I find this option highly unlikely because I think Kobe is going to be anything but cooperative.

2) Trade Kobe before training camp.

I feel that Option #2 is the best way to go. Any trade to placate Kobe while he has one foot out the door and has had every opportunity to clear the air but hasn't would be stupid on management's part.

And I would love to see a show of hands of those who think Kobe will come to camp and play and behave like none of this happened. Do you honestly think this is done? Yeah, me neither.

So put me on the "Trade Kobe" bandwagon so we can get the soap opera over with and start building the next Laker dynasty.

Alright, I'm not sure exactly how to share this story with you as it's better if you can see the pictures as you're reading, but whatever... I'll give it a shot. There's a Part II that I'll probably post later.

**********************************************************

I Hate Bees.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/background2.jpg

The day was fun the day was great
I hadn't yet sat down to… ate

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/sammich.jpg

I'd made my sammich, good and true
I sat on down under skyish blue

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/happy.jpg

Happy I was, gleeful I beed
The sunny day was all I need
ed
(DON'T BLAME ME CAUSE I CAN'T THINK OF SOMETHING THAT WOULD FIT RIGHT THERE AND RHYME WITH "BEED" AND YEAH I JUST MADE THAT WORD UP)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/background2.jpg

A sound from yonder distance came
Could it be snow? Could it be rain?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/singlebeedistant.jpg

The buzzing came, the buzzing crept
The ringing in my ears was kept

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/unsure.jpg

A shocking glance I did obtain
From eating my sammich I did abstain

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg

I stared in wonder, stared in fright
I stared a stare of awe to the right
(YES, THAT'S YOUR RIGHT, JERKFACE)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeesdistant.jpg

The buzzing came, the buzzing crept
The ringing in my ears was kept
(I KNOW IT'S A REPEAT IT'S ARTISTIC, JESUS!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg

The bees, the bees, the bees they are a comin'
The bees, the bees, the bees they are a comin'

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg

"WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'
WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg

Oh my heavens, oh my stars!
Why aren't these bees behind some bars?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg

"WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'
WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/sammich.jpg

"THE SAMMICH, THE SAMMICH WE ALL DEMAND THE SAMMICH"
(AND YES I KNOW HOW TO SPELL SAMMICH, DAMMIT)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg

NO, NO! NOT MY LOVELY SAMMICH

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg

"THE SAMMICH, THE SAMMICH WE ALL DEMAND THE SAMMICH"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/sammich.jpg

NO, NO! NOT MY LOVELY SAMMICH!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg

"WE'LL TAKE THE SAMMICH, TAKE THE SAMMICH"
(OKAY RIGHT ABOUT NOW YOU SHOULD BE PRAYING FOR YOUR LIFE CAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'D BE DOING)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg

NO, NO!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/beesonsammich.jpg

"WE'LL TAKE THE SAMMICH, TAKE THE SAMMICH"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg

NO, NO! NOT MY LOVELY SAMMICH!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/beewithflag.jpg

"WE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG
OF SOME UNITED CREPES OF BOLOGNA
AND TO THE BEEPUBLIC
FOR SAMMICH WE STAND
ONE HIVE UNDER THE QUEEN…"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg

"UNDER THE QUEEN! UNDER THE QUEEN!"
(THEY'RE REPEATING THE VERSE CAUSE THEY FORGOT THE WORDS JUST LIKE I DID OKAY! AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS MADE UP PLEDGE I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REAL THING CAUSE WHY THE HELL WOULD I KNOW SOME BEE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, HUH??)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/beewithflag.jpg

"ONE HIVE UNDER THE QUEEN!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/runaway.jpg

"TO LIBERATE THE SAMMICH FOR EVERYONE!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/background2.jpg

"...."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/bloodybees.jpg

"WE BEES, WE BEES, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR SOULS!
WE BEES, WE BEES, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR SOULS!"

(HAH! GOOD LUCK!!)

Ajax & Mamba24/10,

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both. I understand your reasoning concerning the comparison of their stats coupled with the intangibles LO can bring to the court. However, you are missing a few other things that shouldn't be overlooked. When comparing the two it is wrong to simply use stats because this isn't about simply stats. It is much more about style of play. Although they may have similar stats, the fact that their style of play is much different, makes one more suitable for certain systems over the other. For instance, KG is a much more versatile big man than Shaq has ever been, yet I doubt that the Lakers would have won those 3 titles if KG had been inserted instead of Shaq. They play entirely different games.

LO may be the more versatile player but his versatility isn't necessarily a good thing for the Lakers. There is such a saying as jack of all trades, master of none. He can do a whole lot, but is he the best at anything in particular? Is he even top 5 at any thing in particular? The Lakers are in need of someone to man the paint on defense and someone to demand a double team in the post on offense. LO does neither of those things effectively or consistently.

For Lamar to be the player of choice for the Lakers he needs to be moved to small forward, otherwise he is not the right player for the team.

JJ:

Glad you’re still here. Your post about Lamar makes a lot of sense.

If we had a power forward like JO, then I would have no problem with moving Lamar to small forward or point forward as you term it. I know there are a lot of bloggers who agree with you and would prefer seeing Lamar playing at the 3. Considering our current roster, however, I prefer to see Lamar playing at the 4 and scoring in the low block and grabbing rebounds rather than dribbling the ball on the perimeter, putting up 3 pointers, and committing offensive fouls trying to drive into the paint.

I do agree there are power forwards like Duncan and Boozer that Lamar cannot guard but you just adjust and have Kwame or another defender guard these guys. If Lamar played the 3, there would also small forwards that he would not be quick enough to guard. It’s always a case of the match-ups. In any event, get me a real power forward and I have no problem moving Lamar to the 3. Until we do, however, I think his best position on this team is at the 4. Now if Mihm or Kwame could play the 4, again I have no problem with Lamar moving to the 3.

As to being able to be the second scorer, I think Lamar had taken strides last year to becoming that player before he got injured. It is harder for Lamar to score with the Lakers because of Kobe having the ball so much and the Triangle Offense being more structured and not giving Lamar as much freedom in the open court to run, which is where he may be at his most dangerous. I would like to see us run a lot more, especially when Lamar grabs the board.

Bottom line, I do think that Lamar feels the pressure to score and that he would be a better player if he didn’t have that load on him. That is why I think bringing in JO would really trigger this team to the next level. With KB and JO doing most of the scoring, it would allow Lamar to really play the point forward role you envision for him. Anyway, that’s how I see things with Lamar right now. Welcome back.

Tom

OK. So here's a question for everyone.

What do you think is the most likely thing to happen? Larry Bird cracks and gives up JO without getting Lamar, the Lakers crack and give away Bynum AND Lamar, Kobe gets traded away for whoever, or absolutely nothing happens and everyone stands pat?

AZ,

The worst thing the Lakers could do right now is trade Kobe. He has made it so that they will get the least amount for him right now. Instead they should keep him.

What's the worst that could happen if they don't trade him? He could possibly sit out. LET HIM! If he actually would rather sit out then play, LET HIM. I would still prefer that over trading him. If he sits out, all he will do is hurt himself, which is why I reallydoubt that he would. But, if he is crazy enough to do that.....let him do it. BUT don't trade him.

Generic_one,

"Unfortunately, I have some bad news. Three other things that happened today:

1974: Nixon left the White House after resigning.
1969: Manson Cult killed five people in Roman Polanski's home.
1945: Atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

If this is a sign of things to come, it's not going to be a good day in Laker Land."

So, if Kobe was traded today would that be a good or bad day in Laker land?

DavyJonze,

In this order:

1) Absolutely nothing happens and everyone stands pat.

2) Kobe gets traded

3) Larry Bird gives up JO without getting Odom

4)Lakers give up LO and Bynum for JO

Andrew Z:

Hah... answered in the other thread. It depends on what we get back for him. ; )

JJ-

I understand what you're saying. But JO's strong point of handling the paint and demanding double teams while getting only 19.4 ppg in the Eastern Conference isn't gonna do much good if he did that on the Lakers in the West. LO is too valuable to give up for that. If the Lakers could land JO while keeping LO, LO would be moved to the SF position.

JJ,

I agree that it's better to let Kobe sit out IF THEY CAN'T GET A GOOD DEAL FOR HIM. Obviously they shouldn't trade him just to get it over with. If I were them I would stick to what they're doing and that's saying that they expect Kobe to show up in camp as a Laker. By them saying that rather than saying they are going to deal him and put him on the inactive list keeps them in the positive eye of the fans and also saves them money (Kobe won't get paid if he doesn't show up...actually, I think he has to show up under CBA rules). In the meantime, you put feelers out and see what you can get.

Obviously when you trade a player like Kobe, you won't get equal value in return. It's impossible, he's the best player in the league. But individual ability isn't everything. They can get some good young pieces and financial flexibility which would make the next few steps in building a championship team much easier than what they face now.

So, I still think trading Kobe is the best thing they can do, and the less messy in the media the better...for all involved.

DavyJonze, how about Odom and/or Kwame get moved at the trade deadline for a disgruntled or rejuvenated PF? Kenyon Martin might be a trade deadline mover, depending on how he plays this year. Kwame and filler? Not that I'm pushing this particular move at this moment but, projecting forward towards December/January, there might be a number of interesting players that pop up and teams that will be looking to unload unfavorable contracts.

Mamba 24/10:

Thanks for the love, man. Really....I mean it. After reading your roll call for the past 3 months, that made my day.

KL Beast:

What is your take on Bynum? Wait on him, although no sure thing, or ship his ass out for proven veteran help? I don't recall ever reading your position on this. Are you buying into this kid, or are you selling?

Btw, you appear to have dated yourself as somewhat of a youngster. You really don't remember the Lakers/Celtics rivalry from the 80's? That rivalry is the reason I'm typing this to you right now. As Steve in Denver would attest, the showtime era is the essence of everything good with the Lakers and with LA sports in general. Can you imagine how spoiled we were going to the NBA finals every year for what seemed like an entire decade? Now you have an idea of why folks on this blog are so passionate and so upset at the FO and are completely behind Kobe for calling them out. What I have noticed is that the younger guys on this blog with a lesser developed sense of Laker history seem to be more critical of Kobe than the older Laker heads who came up in the 80's during the rivalry. I think it's because we know that this franchise is the standard-bearer for excellence since the inception of the NBA and players such as Kobe are old school win-at-all cost competitors. Fyi, Magic Johnson did the same thing in 1982 my friend. He publically demanded in the press that the team trade him because he was not going to play for Paul Westhead anymore. Magic didn't like the Westhead's slow it down half court offense and he didn't believe that they were maximizing the talent on the team. And you know what happened? Jerry Buss shipped Westhead's ass out of LA to placate his superstar and brought in Riley. Considering that Magic was only a 2-year player in the league at this time, this sort of thing was remarkable. Kobe, like Magic and Jordan and Bird and Barkley, is about winning at all costs. Guys like that are just wired differently. Being tactful and sugarcoating things and playing politics can sometimes prove difficult to these people. It's hard to fault a guy like this because you know he's right. What good does killing the messenger and ignoring the message serve? Anyway, I digress. My point is, if the Celtics truly are back, it is dissappointing that the Lakers are so far away, and the majority of some posters on this blog find every conceivable way to crucify the guy who placed a huge spot light on the main reason why the team is in bad shape--that being management's & ownership's complacency and contentment with mediocrity.

Another story from the 80's that you may or may not be aware of (and Steve in Denver can attest): Big Game James was up for a contract extension and his negotiations with the team were stalemating. It later came out in the press that he was arrested for soliciting prostitution. Despite having won a couple of Chips, Jerry Buss decided that BGJ was not worth the money and the bad press (kind of hypocritical when you think about it) and told Jerry West to trade him. Jerry West threatened that he would resign before he traded BGJ and Buss eventually conceded.

Anyway, this is the example that first comes to mind of someone being there to save Laker ownership from itself. The problem, as Kobe has so inartfully stated, is that there is no one like that anymore.

Mamba 24/10,

I said "29 Wins in 2010" which is conditional on "No Kobe, No Lamar, No Andrew, No ???"

which is the road that so many Laker fans seem intent (perhaps unwittingly) to travel.

Remove the asterisk from Barry Bond's Home Run Title and add it to my "2010" bandwagon prediction.

Sonnybelfast

I know the topic of the moment is Jermaine O’Neal, but come on folks we need to focus on the elephant in the room. Kobe Bryant, our megastar and team leader wants out. Period! He is unwilling to verbally commit to the Lakers and Bucher continues to reiterate what Kobe won’t. He wants out of L.A. We should be looking to deal Kobe before we deal anyone else. We are talking about the future of the franchise and if that means trading Kobe, then trade Kobe! As great as he is, he is not the franchise and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear Magic voice his frustrations about Kobe at some point.

I would push for Kobe to expand his list of teams that he is willing to be traded to. Ideally I would trade him to New Jersey for Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and New Jerseys 08 #1. Because Carter signed a new contract the deal couldn’t happen until Dec 16th. Kobe talks of how much he enjoys Jason Kidd’s game and would like to play with him. Well, here ya go, Kobe! Adios.

JJ,

Here's my formula for a successful Kobe trade.

1) DO NOT TAKE BACK BAD CONTRACT(S)

Let's call this the Brian Grant Rule. They are going to have to take back at least one big contract ($8-$15 million a year) to make a deal for Kobe work and not have 27 guys on the roster. That contract either needs to be an expiring deal or a young All-Star. Since it's more than likely we want financial flexibility moving forward, let's say it's a MUST we get a large expiring deal.

2) GET A YOUNG ALL-STAR/PROSPECTIVE ALL-STAR

We'll call this the Al Jefferson Rule. You need to have a centerpiece of this deal, and said centerpiece has to have shown, on a consistent basis, that they are going to be on a perenial All-Star level. Andrew Bynum would not fit in this category. Players that I feel do are Al Jefferson, Brandon Roy, Luol Deng, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Josh Howard, etc. We need someone who is going to be a long-term piece of this team OR has extremely high value around the league.

3) YOUNG PROSPECTS

We'll call this the Andrew Bynum Rule. These are players that have shown flashes of greatness but haven't done so on a regular basis and are more often categorized as having "tremendous upside potential" than "immediate contributor". Others in this category are Gerald Green, Thabo Sefalosha, David Lee, etc.

4) DRAFT PICKS

This one is the least important for the simple fact that whatever team Kobe goes to is going to be pretty good and the draft pick will be late in the first round. However, it's nice to have extra 1st rounders in the event of a trade for another star player.

So, its not impossible to get a good deal done, I think they're out there. However, I think for the Lakers to satisfy all of the above points in trading Kobe, they will have to get at least three teams involved in the deal (see my Dallas-Miami-Lakers trade from yesterday).

JJ

This paragraph should have been at the top headline of today's story because it sums up what Lamar Odom does not do. His value is over-inflated. He has not made an ALL Star team yet AK swears that it's pretty much a wash between the 2. It's not a wash at all for the reasons you mentioned.
I don't even want to start on Andrew Bynum and the reasons his value is wayyyy over inflated. If Bynum was that good Bird would have already grabbed him and some draft picks from the Lakers and we would not be talking about this deal.

JJ eloquently wrote (Jack of many trades but MASTER OF NONE)

"LO may be the more versatile player but his versatility isn't necessarily a good thing for the Lakers. There is such a saying as jack of all trades, master of none. He can do a whole lot, but is he the best at anything in particular? Is he even top 5 at any thing in particular? The Lakers are in need of someone to man the paint on defense and someone to demand a double team in the post on offense. LO does neither of those things effectively or consistently.
""

Blkthght06

"Guys like that are just wired differently."

GREAT POST! you're right, i was only able to catch the Showtime Lakers at the tail end circa 1988 when they went back-to-back. I also agree with you that pro-sport athletes are wired differently. I'm willing to recant my "rants" if kobe proves me wrong.

part of my agenda is to point out that kobe has his faults and that kobe played an integral part in our present situation. if kobe's Summer of Rage proves to be beneficial for the lakers, i'll be happy to recant. so far, i don't think it's paid off. just my take.

Blkthght06

"What is your take on Bynum? Wait on him, although no sure thing, or ship his ass out for proven veteran help? I don't recall ever reading your position on this. Are you buying into this kid, or are you selling?"

on the bynum question, i think you have to move him to compete "right now" assuming kobe will stick it out. i think kobe's summer of rage has damaged the relationship with management/owner which might make the bet to "ship bynum out" as too risky.

Will anyone complain about this?

http://tinyurl.com/2ovdxx

Mihm+Harrison
O'Neal+Turiaf+Cook
Smith+Walton+Radmanovic
Bryant+Sefolosha
Fish+Claxton+Crittendon

*************************************
CLeon I apologize The Roll Call
Left Your Name off. It will be on
it tommorrow. Sorrry :>)
**************************************

AK says

"I see trading Odom and Bynum for O'Neal as a sideways move that robs the team of its best prospect or trade chip (depending on how you view Andrew Bynum) and adds a monster (and longer) contract to their books, which will make it even harder to add necessary pieces down the road. Sorry, but that's not worth doing, even if you're desperately hoping to make Kobe happy (especially when there's little reason or indication to think it would succeed)."

AK for the life of me I am trying to figure out why you think JO's contract is so disruptive when he has the same amount of yrs left on his deal as Lamar Odom. JO will come off the books and help clear them if he is not kept just as Lamar will.
Why would the Lakers want to re-sign Lamar Odom anyway. His salary slot is for an ALL Star which he is not. It amazes me how this JayVee Lakers team is so embraced when we've all witnessed what real Laker teams are made of. To start with, ALL STARS!!!!!! We have 1 and only 1 right now.

As decrepit as everyone swears JO is, Lamar Odom is back on the shelf for the 3rd or 4th time as a Laker.
I don't know why you think adding JO will not make the Lakers a harmonious, tougher, veteran, and happier team including KOBE. It's obvious. KOBE is not talking because his talking vibrates louder than Tiger Woods because of the media infatuation with KOBE.

With JO and without Andrew and LO, in 2 summers we are as free as you think we'll be keeping Andrew and JO. KOBE and JO could roll off and we can rebuild.

As a trade chip, Andrew Bynum is at his height right now because if he improves the Lakers are going to give him 50-100 million which would be a joke. If he gets worse, so does his trade value unless someone is stupid enough to execute the KWAME for CARON BUTLER sequel trade.

Fat chance unless Mitch is traded to another NBA team.

Hey RISING STAR,

Have not seen ya before but have no idea why you'd think Bynum and Crittenton are our young future. If so it's a dark, dim, and dismal future.

Why on earth would we think Javaris Crittenton is as good as Nick Van Exel, not mentioning a Norm Nixon???

Why on earth would we think Andrew Bynum is as good as Vlade Divac, don't even think of Kareem Abdul Jabaar?

So if Divac and Van Exel can't bring a title and they were both run out of town then what's the point holding on to them when good trades come about to add to the BEST player in the league who we OWN his rights for 2 YEARS.

The Lakers are not some mom and pop shop unless we act like it (See Shaq trade).

We own KOBE's rights. Game over for 2 yrs!

Lakerbake,

"AK for the life of me I am trying to figure out why you think JO's contract is so disruptive when he has the same amount of yrs left on his deal as Lamar Odom."

Off the top of my head, I'd say it's mostly because JO's contract (which is WAY more expensive) actually runs longer than Odom's. Odom's ends in '09. JO's in '10.

AK

ajax,

you missed something very key though...O'Neal has never played with somebody like Kobe who demands a constant double team. If you have O'Neal in the paint deanding a double, and then you have Kobe on the perimeter demanding a double.....that means at least 2 players are left uncovered for the Lakers. Fisher made a living during the playoffs in 2001 hitting tose open shots. He would eat that stuff up now.

AZ,

I say don't trade him period. What is so wrong with letting him walk in 2 years? First off, trust me, Kobe won't sit out for two season....call his bluff. Second, in two seasons, we will know just how good Bynum will be. IF Bynum does keep developing into a franchise center.....will we care about Kobe walking in two years? I say let him sit and stew in it! The Lakers should be doen making moves just to appease Kobe.

Blkthght06,
"Mamba 24/10: Thanks for the love, man. Really....I mean it. After reading your roll call for the past 3 months, that made my day."

No Problem BK. I should have had it up there sooner.

Personally I am willing to bet some money that the overly non - creative, cliche loving headline writers at ESPN.com will have a headline that says "Miller Time?" before this is over...as this thing heats up they wont be able to resist it....trust me

WOW

This post by Blkthght06
shows that you need a strong GM.
If Mitch were to threaten to resign would the Lakers have trouble finding a YES man to replace him??? I think JIM BUSS puts a cloud over that position. Jerry West would not dare return under this current ownership regime.

Another story from the 80's that you may or may not be aware of (and Steve in Denver can attest): Big Game James was up for a contract extension and his negotiations with the team were stalemating. It later came out in the press that he was arrested for soliciting prostitution. Despite having won a couple of Chips, Jerry Buss decided that BGJ was not worth the money and the bad press (kind of hypocritical when you think about it) and told Jerry West to trade him. Jerry West threatened that he would resign before he traded BGJ and Buss eventually conceded.

AK
There must be a typo on the ESPN trade machine because it says Lamar and Jermaine have 2 yrs remaining.

However, the way you make LO and JO comparing apples and apples is not accurate. LO is a promising veteran who has never fullfilled promise.
He didn't take Miami far.
Do we remember the Clippers losing days? He was a LOSER with so much promise, potential, Magic Johnson like dimensions with nothing inside to make it come to fruition.

JO has made a solid name for himself. Scored 57 points in a game, took a team deep in the playoffs. Got out of the 1st round multiple times. Made multiple All Star teams.
Learned under Scottie Pippen, Greg Anthony, Sabonis, and the Portland vets.

But as you say, they're one in the same.
The story of JO and LO.

OK folks...i am a first time poster..long time reader...

for all you 'trade kobe' people...get off your rocker...seriously...he is the best talent on the planet...what is wrong with you people...do you people read what Kidd, Durant, Nowitizki, Colengalo tc...all say about him from team USA...he is the star of stars - every time he plays!...seriously, we have michael jordan and some people just don't like hime for his sometimes surly nature and the colorado thing...

also - for all you JO=LO becuase of stats -- you are all dead wrong because JO got those stats with no help...now he will have Kobe to pull double teams away and leave the paint open...further Kobe finally will have someone to dump it into insteadf LO let me shoot a 3 because i can't shoot a 4' and kwame who just plain sucks...and AB who is a freakin teenager... we need a threat in the paint

peace..i'm out...

Andrew Z,

You mention your four trade points, but do you really think that there is a trade out there that will fit those that would be beneficial to the Lakers? Come on, McHale is being criticized like crazy right now and being accused of letting his Old Celtic bias dictate that move of KG. Yet, you think that the Lakers can find a trade that is going to be good? I doubt it. Kobe is so much more difficult to work in a trade than anybody else other than Shaq. You always hit me with being realistic, but you aren't being realistic right now.

LakerBake,

Although we seem to agree in part about Lamar not being a master of anything, that is where our agreement ends. I never said that he wasn't an All-Star caliber player or overrated. He is still underrated....it's just that his strengths AS BEING USED BY THE LAKERS, aren't benefitting the Lakers enough to make him worth saving over gaining O'Neal. As for Bynum, at 19, I think he deserves more time before you start calling him overrated. How can you call a 19 year old overrated? They haven't even stopped growing at 19. We could call Oden overrated....considering he got the number 1 pick even though there are clear holes in his game on both ends.

JJ,

i agree that Kobe won't sit out, I'd be shocked if he did. And I also agree that the Lakers need to call his bluff and not make a panic move.

However, where I think we differ, and maybe I differ from the front office, is that I don't feel this is a Kobe or Bynum thing. I don't think Andrew Bynum is a franchise guy. I think he can be an All-Star, but I see him more as a Illgauskas, Magloire, Divac type player than a Shaq, Yao, Kareem type. I think going forward with a Kobe trade a young prospect at center isn't what you need, but i'm definitely not comfortable handing over the reigns to Bynum as the franchise.

Also, this team would suck for two years without Kobe and neither the franchise nor Kobe would benefit from him sitting out. Like him or not, he's done a lot of wonderful things for the Los Angeles Lakers and the city. I would like to think that both Kobe and Dr. Buss have spoken and agreed to keep this behind closed doors while they pursue a trade that is best for both parties. At the end of the day it would be nice if both said they enjoyed their time together but it's time to go our separate ways.

I absolutely believe that the Lakers, post Kobe Trade, could be a better club next year than they have been the last three. It's just a matter of making the right deal.

Nice two man game by Kobe and JO...already showing some chemistry...
A bit short sighted however....Both of these idiots should stick to basketball

1)Larry Bird is not going to do for the lakers what Mchale did for the celtics.

2) JO does not have a no trade clause so if the pacers get a better offer than what the lakers can give him which is highly likely unless we overpay (Bynum Odom) then He will trade him there...personally I think the deal is pretty much pointless if they let Lamar go.

3) Bird might be smart enough to put business ahead of personal vendetta's but whatever else but hes sure as heck not going to want to Make all of JO's dreams come true after the guy has put him in such a position....

These guys should stop wrecking the league and just play...they are being paid enough.Be professional.JO is soft and injury prone anyway...anyone remember his bad body language in game 6 of the eastern finals when they lost to the pistons...supposed to be the leader and he cost them a chance to win that game.Trade Odom for this loser and we've had it...trade Bynum, Brown,Radmanovic and Farmar and we MIGHT have a team if Kobe can rein in his out of control self righteousness and ego.At least with those two massive contracts and next to no character we might have a chance to pay off the ref's....

GO La..k....e.....r......s......

Boogaloo! Yay!

Lakerbake,

According to USA Today and Hoophype, O'Neal's contract runs through 2010.

As for your contention that LO never took Miami anywhere, I'm not sure that's really fair, considering he only spent one season there. During that season, he played a very big role in taking an inexperienced team to the semi's. That certainly isn't terrible. And considering that aside from one trip to the Eastern conference finals, JO's only gotten out of the first round once in 7 seasons with Indiana (as opposed to the "multiple times" you claim), I don't see what your point is.

Also, I've never claimed O'Neal and Odom are equal players. I actually think O'Neal is a little better, all in all. But I don't think he's so much better that he can help carry the Lakers as part of a two-man show through a brutal Western conference, nor do I think he's good enough to compensate for the depth lost in that trade. Throw in the contract/Kobe issues I've already mentioned and I just don't think that proposal makes sense for the Lakers. But clearly, you don't agree. And that's fine.

AK

lakerBlake

WRONG JO is a loser...other than Artest he was the biggest reason those great Indiana teams never went anywhere...hes never fulfilled his promise either...hes whiny,soft,injury prone, especially in the playoffs...and threw the worst punch the NBA has ever seen bar Kermit Washington's....at a little fan no less.

get him of you can but he's not all he's cracked up to be and not a great improvement on Odom...if an improvement at all.

JO is owed 67 million for the next 3 years. That is Superstar money!

Lets make one thing clear, JO is not a Superstar.. He is not a Kobe, Wade, Lebron..

You think Buss will pay 3 players 60 million and the rest peanuts?? Buss will not mirror the Celtic gameplan. He will not trade youth for JO with a chance Kobe will walk. Folks, I know you hate to hear this, but Bynum and Critt are the FUTURE!!!!

THEY WILL NOT BE TRADED DUE TO KOBE'S OUTBURST!!!!

The only trade I might consider if I was Buss is ODOM AND KWAME for JO..take it or leave it BIRD, but you are not getting the KIDS.... Again, KOBE forced this on management, with that tirade, alarm bells went off in LAKERVILLE that confirmed that the rebuilding plan they have been on is the right direction to take, cemented even more with KOBE outburst...

KOBE makes one more cry out to be traded, Lakers make it happen, get some youth with talent. I am ready to watch LAKER BASKETBALL again!!!!!

The 3 BEST GAMES played last year was games, 1,2,3, when KOBE was hurt, tell me, was the ball movement unbeleivable those 3 games?? Of course it was... KOBE get with the game plan or get out!!!!!

bd

Odom vs. JO

To add to AK's comparison, Lamar is actually younger than Jermaine as well.

Not that anyone gives a hoot.

"...some posters on this blog find every conceivable way to crucify the guy (Saint Dawg) who placed a huge spotlight on the main reason why the team is in bad shape"

Blight06 attributes this to a "lesser developed sense of Laker history" while presumably, those with a greater sense of Laker history wouldn't entertain such thoughts.

Right.

The Lakers won championships long before Kobe and could win more championships long after Kobe. The one time that Kobe really deserves the spotlight of blame on himself, he diverts it to someone else. Many of us, including many old, old timers must be shocked.

Sonnybelfast

JJ,

I absolutely believe there is a trade out there that would help the Lakers. I also believe that with or without Kobe we are major moves away from competing. If we strongly disagree on that then I could see where our views clash. As for the KG trade, I think the Wolves made out on that deal. The big problem I see is that they did a deal like that too late and spent the past couple years signing guys like Mike James and trading for guys like Mark Blount, Marko Jaric, and Troy Hudson. They could have been way ahead if they would have dealt KG earlier. But that's another topic.

Here's a repost of a trade I mentioned yesterday. Every team comes out positive in this. Again, i don't think you can just replace Kobe on a lot of levels, but this puts us in position to be a better team moving forward and makes building much, much easier.

Lakers trade Kobe Bryant and Jordan Farmar or Crittendon
Lakers receive Josh Howard, Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Jason Williams, 1st in 2008 from Dallas

Dallas trades Josh Howard, Diop, Harris, Terry
Dallas receives Kobe Bryant and Farmar/Crittendon

Miami trades Jason Williams
Miami receives Jason Terry

Why for the Lakers?

If the Kobe situation gets to a point where we can't make him happy (could very likely happen, and the only reason you trade him) we would get $11+ million in expirings in Jason Williams and Diop, Josh Howard who is a young All-Star, Devin Harris who is a top PG prospect, and a draft pick.

Why for Dallas?

Um, they get the best player on the planet. Done.

Why for Miami?

Really, Smush Parker is your big off-season addition? Really? Need a PG in the worst way, Jason Terry is good. Enough said.

We're not going to get equal value for Kobe no matter what, and of course I'd love to ship him out East, but we add two young starters who are HUGE defensive upgrades at the positions we got abused at most last year (the 1 and 3) and we will have over $20 million in expiring deals that come off the books (anyone for Gilbert Arenas as free agent to play the 2?).

Even without that we'd have this

PG Fisher/Harris/Farmar or Crittendon/Williams
SG Howard/Evans/Sasha
C Kwame/Diop/Mihm/Bynum
SF Walton/Vlad
PF Odom/Turiaf/Cook

Of course that's 16 guys on the roster, but you could definitely package a couple or more for impact guys if you so desire. The thing is, overall we'd be better and in a much better place moving forward to rebuild.

Kobe will not sit out for two seasons - can we all just agree that is absolutely written in stone?

So why worry about what happens when he is able to opt out in two years (leaving 2 years and $45 mil on the table)??

This FO and many bloggers seem paralyzed by the "what-ifs" - we have one of the top 5 guys of this era under contract for at least two more years! Why not do whatever it takes to make a championship push NOW!

I absolutely agree with many that Kobe screwed the pooch with his rants, but the facts remain as stated above regardless of his maturity/tact or whatever. Too many in the FO seem content with mediocrity, and as long as they have Kobe they feel they can market this team and sell seats (increased again this year!)

One more thing to consider: To win a championship in the NBA you must have a top 5 guy on your roster (Pistons 04 was a fluke - if Karl stays healthy Lakers win)
If you trade Kobe, who do you see coming here or developing here that is a top 5 guy? Not Vince, not Agent Zero and nobody like Bynum or Gordon or Deng or any other name I have heard mentioned is now or projected to be a top 5 guy. If we could get Wade or LBJ then yeah, I could see that but we all know that ain't happening!

Here is a great article on the Laws of Championship in the NBA from RealGM:
http://celtics.realgm.com/articles/344/20070802/a_calculated_risk_based_upon_the_iron_law_of_nba_championships/

Every Laker fan should want to win, and win it all - so we need somebody in the FO that has the brass to make it happen! It is not rocket science, and it seems the Celtics are getting closer this year or next. Too bad it took Ainge until he feared for his job safety to get daring enough to make things happen. They may not get to the promised land, but I bet they at least get the chance to play for the rings in the next two years!!

C'mon Jim Buss, step away and let the basketball people make the decisions - get Magic involved with Mitch and you just play office and live on Daddy's money! And for all our sakes, keep your mouth shut!

Andrew Z,

I don't see how you can discredit Bynum so much after really one season of watching him play. He's 19, and was thrusted into the starting lineup upon which he had some pretty solid games mixed in with some bad ones. He's at least worth giving another season before saying he's bad.

As for the team if Kobe sits out.....let's say they have abad season and possibly miss the playoffs.....wouldn't that give them high draft picks? Is that such a bad thing still?

In whatever case you want to look at it, it just is not wise to trade Kobe now or ever. Besides, if you agree that he will play....isn't that worth not doing anything.

Oh, and i don't see the lakers making this Kobe or Bynum. When the Lakers drafted Magic they weren't saying....we are going with the young guy so Kareem you are going to have to leave. I can't understand why young and old can't work together. Why can't Kobe help Bynum catch up? Why does it have to be one or the other? i don't think the team is calling it that way....the media and fans are doing that!

Laker fans should be asking how much longer they are going to allow the man-child to disrupt the franchise? How long will Kobe's actions continue to negatively impact the team even after he is gone? What can the Lakers get in exchange for Kobe right now?
Do it today and you'll be in contention in short order. There is plenty of room on the "29 WIn In 2010" bandwagon otherwise.

It's not as though Kobe hasn't been paired up with stars and even future Hall Of Famers in the past who have gone on to succeed or continue success elsewhere. Make all of the excuses you wish, but sticking with the Saint is a terrible risk. As I've said in the past, you'll already know your plight; more of the same. Let him be the star on some other squad. He's just not up to being the number one on a storied franchise.

Get moving Laker fans.

Sonnybelfast

Andrew Z,

You know...it's funny how you criticize my trades for the same faults that your trades are loaded with.

You actually believe that the Mavs would trade Howard, Harris, Terry AND Diop for Kobe and Farmar or Crittenton? Are you serious? And you call my trades unbalanced?????

You actually believe that Williams and Terry are interchangeable where Dallas would be happy to send Miami Terry with them only giving up Williams? The Lakers wouldn't like that either. Terry is light years ahead of Williams.

You actually see where the Lakers would be allowed to get all of this in this deal? I don't care if we are talking about Kobe.....this is unbalanced in favor of Kobe and the unbalancing is a ridiculous amount.

How can you claim that my trade was unbalanced and then come back with this?????

Uhhhh.....

No one has anything to say about kobe on TV last night?

Come on people, what'd he say?

Jeeze. Lets get it together here....

Wes

Ghost of Spiderman,

So, if you have to have a top 5 guy on your team to win it all, does that mean that only 5 teams really have a shot at winning this year? I'm not saying that history, or myself, disagree with you, it's just that you would think things would play out differently.

Here's my take on why I think we should trade Kobe. I don't think we can put the players around him in the time frame necessary (especially after his ranting) to win a ring. That's the front offices' fault, not Kobe's. But fact is fact. So what next? I would try and put the best team on the floor, provide an entertaining product and hope that you can get yourself in the positon to play for a ring.

And at the end of the day, we really haven't been very close to a ring the past three years with Kobe, and what we have to use to bring guys in isn't very good. Sometimes you have to move one great asset to get three or four good ones.

Plus, if Kobe stays I don't like what he's done to the franchise this summer. If he stays and is happy to do so, he went out of his way to screw us, and that's not cool, especially to us fans.

JJ,

I said I thought Andrew Bynum would be an All-Star, how is that saying he's bad?

And high draft picks are good, but they'd be of little solace to having a whole season with Kobe sitting out and the public relations nightmare it would be.

I think Kobe will play, just because it's what he does, but I'd be a fool to think it's not going to be an ongoing distraction.

As for the Laker making this Kobe or Bynum, it's not Bynum exactly but the idea of holding onto a valuable trade piece when that piece could have been cashed in for something of much more value to the immediate success of the team now. Kobe has every right to want to play on a contender now, not help develop youth. The fact that the front office has been reluctant to get Kobe more help because they didn't want to trade Bynum could be taken as a slight to Kobe.

For example, before the Kings drafted Spencer Hawes, don't you think they would have taken a Vlad-Bynum package for Ron Artest? I think they would have in a heartbeat, and that trade would have made the Lakers so much better, even a contender.

Has their ever been a franchise player in any sport that publicly (and repeatedly) stated that they wanted to be traded and then came back to play with no negative reprecutions? I can't think of any.

If the Lakers can make a good deal and get back what I mentioned earlier, that is much more valuable than Kobe's contract coming off the books in two years if/when he walks for nothing.

Andrew Z,

First thing....Kobe doesn't owe fans anything. I know we like hearing the players say all those nice things about how they appreciate the fans and all, but in all fairness, they are doing their job just like everybody else. It's entertainment!

Second, I disagree that the team has to trade Kobe because his window isn't big. Indiana traded away Dale Davis, Jalen Rose, Sam Perkins and other vets from around Reggie and replaced them with young players that hadn't proven themselves at all, and Reggie never complained and the team had a level of success over time. It is crazy to believe that they have to trade Kobe. I wouldn't have agreed with trading Shaq had it not been that Kobe's remaining was in the balance. This time, Kobe can't go anywhere right now. Even if they trade him next summer, I wouldn't trade him now.

JJ,

You do realize that Kobe is the best player on the planet right? The only reason we or anyone would ever, EVER trade him is because of what is going on right now.

How does Dallas turn that down? I understand Howard is a solid, very good young player, but he's not a #1 guy on a championship team. Harris is a great prospect, but again, they're getting Kobe.

I'm sure they wouldn't want to trade Terry AND Harris, but getting Farmar softens that "losing two PGs" blow. Hell, they can keep Diop if they want, if salaries still work.

As for Williams-Terry, Terry is a HUGE upgrade for Miami so they'd be stoked and we would get Williams expiring contract-THAT'S ALL WE WOULD NEED HIM FOR!!! Everyone gets something out of that exchange (Lakers get expiring deal, Miami gets PG they need, Dallas gets Kobe)

Dallas gets the closer, competitor, mean-streak they've been missing the last two years that has cost them one title if not two.

I honestly think we give up more in this deal than anyone, we lose the biggest basketball star on the planet.

andrew z

"You do realize that Kobe is the best player on the planet right?"

i respectfully disagree with the notion that "kobe is the best player on the planet".

JJ,

Remember, in the history of the NBA, the team that deals away a superstar always comes out on the short end of the stick. When Miami traded for Shaq, they were coming off a playoff run that took them to the semifinals. They proceeded to trade away 60% of their starting line-up from that team, with two of the three being young, talented prospects. Well, they made it to the Finals that year and won it all the next year.

If Dallas made that trade and got Kobe, I'd pick them to win it all next season.

Ummm..Andrew Z...

Wouldn't your trade leave Dallas with Nowitzki, Bryant, Stackhouse and a bunch of scrubs? Not sure if they would sign off on that...

Nowitzki and Bryant is a good tandem, but without support, that's a very thin team.

Plus, you are assuming that cap space will come in handy with Arenas. What if he sticks to Washington? And LA would be worse off than last year.

How about this one?

LA gets Hinrich, Gordon, Noah and picks
Indiana gets Wallace, Ty Thomas
Chicago gets Bryant, O'Neal, Crittendon, Mihm

Pacers get an All-Star and a promising big man for their big
Bulls get to contend with Bryant+O'Neal+Deng+Nocioni
Lakers get to fill holes around Odom and Bynum with an upgraded back-court, and add depth.

Bynum+Kwame
Noah+Turiaf+Cook
Odom+Walton+Radmanovic
Gordon+Evans+Vujacic
Hinrich+Farmar+Fisher

What do you think?

Andrew Z,

First thing, I don't think Kobe has the right to demand to play for a contender. If he had been on this team for a number of years and they hadn't done anythingto build a contender and he had also never won a championship....I could see him complaining and wanting to leave. Guys like Reggie Miller, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing stayed loyal to their teams until there was nothing really left to give, and they never won a championship....and you think I'm going to have sympathy on a guy that was heading to Charlotte had it not been for Jerry West swooping in and saving him from that... and going on to wi 3 titles with Shaq. No....Kobe doesn't get any sympathy for having to struggle now. Most players struggle early and get their rewards late. After a brief struggle Kobe won 3 titles......he hasn't had the struggles like these other guys until now. KG I can understand.....Paul Pierce I can understand.....but not Kobe.

Second.....are you suggesting that trading Bynum and Radman for Artest would have made the Lakers contenders? They would have still been very weak inside, so how would they have been able to compete with the Spurs or even the Suns? Upgrading small forward is important, but it isn't the most important area of concern. They need to upgrade at power forward first.

Third, Because Kobe made this public......I would make him suffer publicly. As much as he has done for the organziation....his services have been generously paid for by the team. If he wants to act out now....make him suffer, but don't trade him. this is like a game of Chicken.....i have a feeling that he will blink first.

Ajax,

The 1-800 number for that breaking lesson crap still works as an ordereing center....lol

Damn shame

Trade Kobe to New Jersey. The deal goes down like this.

New Jersey gets:
Kobe
Kwame

Lakers get:
Vince Carter
Richard Jefferson
New Jersey's #1 in 08 (non restricted)
Jason Collins

Carter provides scoring and star power (80% of Kobe). Jefferson is a major upgrade at the 3. Kwame and Collins are traded to get the deal done.

This team would compete.

Andrew Z,

Value is very subjective. What makes you think Dallas would value Kobe as much as you think they would?

As for Miami....sure they'd be happy, but would the other two teams be happy that they could give up Williams and get back Terry? They would be the top winner based on loss and gain.

Dallas would lose 3 impact players for 1. I don't care how good that one is...that's alot. That's more than Boston gave up for KG.

Howard is already an All-Star and Harris is showing signs of becoming one. That's a lot of Kobe.

This is the trade:

Bynum, Brown, Cook and our 19th pick (J.C.) for O'neal...there it is...make it happen Kupcake

JJ, Kobe does owe the fans. Where do you think his $20m/season comes from? The only reason the corporations sponsor teams like the Lakers in the first place is because of fan interest. Let Kobe go try and make $20m/season in the NHL, maybe then he'll recognize how spoiled he is. He's making all this money off the previous efforts of Magic and Bird, then Jordan.

If Kobe sits out training camp, then the Lakers can either burn the season or try to trade Kobe. They are expecting him to play the SG slot and if he sits out, then once again, he is burning the team for his own selfish reasons. This might not be the worst thing that could happen. I'm sure several mid-level teams would appear out of nowhere to make some very attractive offers.

If Kobe really has played his last game as a Laker, as has been implied, then one of the more intriguing players to get back in trade would be Gilbert Arenas. At least he would bring some joy back to this team.

I'm with JJ, you just don't trade Kobe. Let him be malcontent, let him stew...in fact let him opt out. But trading a superstar is virtually franchise suicide...much less in his prime. But that's just one woman's opinion.

Aw Mamba24, I'm so flattered. I'll look forward tomorrow (I'll even take a day off my vacation and read every post lol). Lakers today! Lakers tomorrow! Lakers forever!

Mr. Edwin Gueco sir...."if we're not competing, then it's really much ado about nothing." BRAVO! Isn't that the bottomline?

Ok...so it's been day 2000 still don't have the "insider's" head on a platter...and we're still stacked silly with guards with no rhyme or reason. Yup, another day in the think tank that is the Lakers Front office.

any_one_mouse,

I like that deal, I think a Gordon-Hinrich backcourt is very good and I'm a fan of Noah. As for the Arenas thing, I never make trades that give cap space under the assumption we'd get someone, just giving Agent Zero as an example.

As for Dallas being thin, I agree, they do lose quite a bit. However, they do have their full MLE to use this year, they'd surely be a destination for vets looking for a ring, and I'd have to guess Mark Cuban would get whatever pieces he needs to make it work. Having the Nowitzki-Kobe duo puts them into contention right away. I mean, that's the reigning league MVP right there paired with the best player in the league. That would be a tough one to pass up. But I could seeing Dallas passing, its tough to lose that many guys in one deal.

I would love for a big blockbuster like that to go down, but has something that big ever happened, especially where every team seems to get something good? HA!!

Also, every time I see a trade with Indiana I realize what a horrible situation that team is in. They are so deep in poo it's unbelieveable.

JJ,

You don't have to convince me that we don't owe Kobe anything, I just said that I can understand his desire to be on a team that has established veterans ready to contend rather than a young roster finding it's way (even though I think our roster is quite nice).

I will not move from my stance that I think Kobe and his behavior is going to have a continuous negative impact on this team/franchise until he is traded.

I wouldn't give him away for peanuts, but I would definitely make a move sooner rather than later so we could move on and get to building a contender again.

Release Kobe. Believe it or not, this would be best for everyone. Release him, show him the door to the rest of the NBA along with the red-necks, mosquitos, fire ants, snow, tornados and church mentality. Let him enjoy while we suffer here on the West Coast. Let's start rebuilding NOW!!! Get off this Kobe thing - he has destroyed the Lakers - show him the damn door.

For those that missed it...

Kobe with Jimmy (Kimmel that is haha).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ALUjFWHGRtw&watch_response

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3wqqZH_8ahg

Paulie:

Release (Kobe), show him the door to the rest of the NBA along with the red-necks, mosquitos, fire ants, snow, tornados and church mentality.

Dude, did you get enough sleep last night or are you still hearing voices?

Here is the simple formula, if big names like KG or JO are in pipe dream and acquiring them will surely gut the team, at least get some little help from unknown foreign players to bloggers here but very popular in Europe. What is our record on Euro players?

Vlade Divac.
Slava Medvenko
Sasha Vujacic
Vladimir Radmanovic

Divac proved to be the best and I hope Vlad will show his full potential next season since he's free now from injury.

We could have improved the Lakers, had we gotten the best Euro players that came out this year. Lately, Luis Scola moved to Rockets, he has 14 ppg and 66 FGA% 6'9" Forward. Another one that slipped away to Grizzlies,was Carlos Navarro, pure shooter one of the best SG in the Euroleague. Lakers could not convince Theo Papaloukas one of the best defensive guards in the Euro league & team Greece and opted to renew his contract w/ CSKA Moscow. If we could not have KG or JO, let's do our homework in other fronts. Wars are won when you accummulate many small victories in the battlefield. Don't be surprised during the playoffs of foreign names propped up passing by Luke and Farmar, his name is Barbosa? Who is this Diaw? Where did the Spurs got these Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Fabricio Oberto and lately, Vassilis Spanoulis? Or if you look at the Toronto Raftors: Jorge Garbajosa, Jose Manuel Calderon, Anthony Parker and Carlos Delfino. Last year, they were NBA newcomers, next season you will see them bloom.

We are debating here on all pipe dreams gutting our serviceable players but missed the boat on other foreign stars.

If this F/O are no good salesmen and yet they have few prospects too, then how do them expect them to acquire good players? Colangelo, Presti, D'Antoni did their homework, they just keep on betting until they win, while in our case, we just kept on yacking from radio talk shows to the blog groups, "there will be a big change in the off season but I do not promise anything because I don't have the magic wand. You will see it on the draft day. Oh-oh, Ok we got Fish because of his daughter's condition, we got Critt because nobody took him on the first 20 picks, we got Karl because nobody took on the first 60 picks and Father Karl asked him to play with the Lakers. What have we accomplished so far aside from re-signing injury prone players Mihm and Walton. Well, we were busy watching X-Games, attending charity events, go back to the El Segundo office fantasizing on realgm.com then, getting the phone to follow-up on China eggs.

FOLKS, WE FAILED TO CLOSE THE DEAL BECAUSE WE HAVE FEW PROSPECTS. WE ARE WAITING FOR THE DEADLINE TO CRAM JUST LIKE THE JASON KIDD DEAL, THE AL HARRINGTON DEAL, THE CHRIS WEBBER DEAL, THE KG DEAL.....deja vu.

Note: Seriously, Mamba24/10 will come out to be a better leader & GM because he is well-liked at all fronts.

I really am beginning to believe that we will not see any major trade until after the season starts and perhaps not until the trade deadline. At this point I cant see the Lakers trading for players to surround Kobe with, Why should we trade away future prospects if we are not sure if Kobe plans to be in that Future? And as far as trading Kobe, can we get any real value for him at this time? Chicago, seems the most likely place, yet they have stated over and over that they are not willing to break up their team for Kobe, KG or anyone else.After the season starts everyone will have an idea of what they have and is it enough. So if we are going to have to dump Kobe for pennys on the dollar, why do it this year? I really cant see him sitting out. So lets not make any deals, just to make one.

MH

Paulie

Release him? Brilliant. So we still owe him 20 mil per AND he still counts against the cap so we cant add anyone else AND he is not playing AND we get nothing in return? GENIUS.

MH

AK

i got this feeling that on your down time you put on the balloon pants and start pop lockin' and make believe that youre in a showdown against BRUCE LEEROY...SHOGUN OF HARLEM.

Andrew Z are you really apart of the trade KOBE bandwagon or on the fence.

I can't tell. It seems like you're flip flopping back and forth.

regarding mentioned trade to NJ, I believe VC can't be traded until DECEMBER as he signed as a free agent after opting out of previous contract.....that's unfortunate, because I actually think that kind of trade to NJ that would get the LAKERS back RJ and VC for Kobe and a salary eater would actually be perhaps the best trade out there if the LAKERS wanted to continue to compete next year without Kobe.....a lineup of RJ, FISHER, VC, ODOM and BYNUM would be formidable and interesting---and although he didn't specify the Nets in his trade demands, I'd have to believe Kobe would find NJ pretty appealing, he'd play with JKIDD and be in the NYC metropolitan area, kind of like a baseball player going to play for the Angels if he wanted to play for the Dodgers...

I've heard this kind of NJ trade mentioned in a few places in a kind off hand way....maybe there is something there that has been at least thought about by respective front offices....

Anyway, I'm surprised it hasn't got more traction, as it seems without the major move, I really believe that Kobe will be traded. The Lakers are a proud organazation, if the star of the franchise is not happy and disrespects them at every turn, they'll act....trust me.....they know they'll win again soon.

Very interesting article on a corporate website for corporate managers concerning how to treat superstars from a corporate point of view.

Check it out at:
http://www.cio.com/article/128802/Communicating_with_a_Corporate_Superstar_Lessons_from_Kobe_Bryant

AK

Look like we have a dispute between media outlets over Jermaine O'Neal's yrs left on contract.

With that being said, Lamar Odom did not take the Miami Heat to the semis it was D-Wade. He made the plays to close out the 1st round. Ask anybody who watched including ODOM who always takes a back seat to EVERYBODY he encounters. Lamar would just assume be a #3 or #4 as a #2. No way a #1. I think Odom is given way too much credit.
According to your research JO took his team out of the 1st round 2 of 8 times with a conference Final apperance. Sounds like KG's resume. We're not asking JO to be a #1, we're asking him to be a #2 for the first time.
Lamar Odom sat on the Clippers and NEVER made the playoffs EVER.
Cassell came in there and they went to the playoffs because Cassell has MOXIE and STONES.

JJ

Odom's potential has you tantalized as everyone else is.
This is the same potential that was there with the Clippers, there wth the Heat, there with Rudy T's ball, there with Phil Jackson ball yet
ODOM has not clear cut led a team anywhere. If Odom was so good in Miami then why could we not tell if he were as good or better than BUTLER when Caron was here.
Caron was aggressive. Lamar is not consistently aggressive.
How you can make him equal to JO based on potential is beyond me. He does not step up.
The beauty of JO is that he has had time as his team's #1 star. For a #1 to go to #2 is a lot easier than a #2,3,4,5 type guy like Lamar Odom trying to be the #2 guy in the TOP NBA MARKET in the USA.

Being a #2 for the Lakers takes a certain type of MOXIE and STONES.

ODOM has not shown it.
JJ, does your Laker watching go back beyong Shaq-Kobe yrs. How far??

All this being said, I like ODOM but he isn't JO and he has failed at his job. FIRE him, we don't have time for that crap. This is the big time!

JJ,

I always see eye to eye with you and Mc-Hypeman Mamba24/10.

I feel Kobe does have the right to desire to play for a contender; however, not in the case of the Lakers after trading Shaq. Especially going into the 05’-06’ season. We had Tony Bobbit, Tierre Brown, Brian Grant, Vlade Divac, Brian Cook, Sasha Vujacic, Slava, backing up Chris Mihm, Lamar, Caron Butler, Smush and Kobe. Sure they promised him a contender; but how do you realistically recover by trading Shaq for crap value, have a mishandling Front Office, and a disingenuous image? (Look at the Celtics, they are barely scratching the surface with the unknown 3 that looks great on paper.) Kobe needs to realize, the Lakers struggled with Shaq, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Fisher, Horry, Fox, Derek Harper, Dennis Rodman and Elden Campbell. How do you think you would do after loosing Shaq and Jim-Jerry Buss on the GM seat? Wake up homie….. Lakers FO are dumb!

I would trade for Ron Artest, but for Radmanovich and Sasha. But who would want those two? Besides Sacto will never want to help the Lakers. Also, the Forward positions I believe were ok (assuming were not injured) Mihm-PF, Turiaf-PF, Odom-PF/Sf, Vlade-PF/Sf, Walton-Sf, Cook-Situational.

Finally, Poker time. Kobe you laid your cards, the FO should not reveal theirs. I hope Kobe has realized his mistakes, and so has the FO. Right now, makes moves if the cards dealt are for the Lakers favor. Whether it be trading Kobe (which I don’t want to) or to upgrade for another Allstar or great role player(s) for our current roster.

Charles

If you want Kobe gone this is what the FO should do:

Chicago gets:
Kobe
Kwame
Farmar

Lakers get:
Duhon
Gordon
Tyrus Thomas
Ben Wallace
1st round pick

Next years roster:
Fisher-Duhon-Crittenton
Gordon-Evans-Coby Karl
Luke-Radmanovic
LO-Thomas-Turiaf
Wallace-Bynum-Mihm

Andrew Z,

Yup - Indiana is in deep doo-doo. Wonder how Bird signed off on that horrible Golden State deal - wouldn't it have been cheaper to just waive Jackson, which presumably was the driver?

I also see that as an opportunity to get JO. If we offer to get one of their horrendous contracts off their hands, we may be able to keep either Odom or Bynum.

How about:

O'Neal and Murphy for Odom, Brown, Cook, Farmar/Vujacic and next year's #1 ?

Indiana is effectively wiping Murphy off the books this year, while getting O'Neal's production from Odom and Brown (who has to be motivated in a contract year).

Paulie-

"red-necks, mosquitos, fire ants, snow, tornados and church mentality."

Pretty funny stuff there...so California (and Californians by default I presume) are "better" than the rest of the country because California does not have insects, hicks, natural disasters, or places of worship?

While I agree Newport is not a bad place to call home, believe it or not, the rich live pretty well elsewhere too.

CS in Virginia

Paulie

"Release Kobe. Believe it or not, this would be best for everyone"

Best for who? Lakers will loose revenue without Kobe. Do you think we'd have a major TV schedule if we trade Kobe and end-up with a bunch of half a** talent like so many folks keep posting here? Its a business, not just entertainment. You don't have revenue without fans, season ticket being sold, and media coverage. Kobe's the draw. 81 points in one game. Three time World Champ, two time scoring champ, robbed of the MVP at least twice. Yea, trade him for Noah, Gordon etc.... huh?
That's about a good of business deal as McDonald's choosing to stop selling burgers & fries.
If, JO is obtainable without loosing LO, go for it. Bird was a shooter so why not throw V. Rad in the mix? His pay check and contract are too big but he's got value (tough to judge from last season). Bottom line is the front office has to get something done. Or they stand to loose more than just a great player.

If you want to see the Lake Show build around Kobe, and win a CHIP the deal will probably look something like this:

Indy gets:
Kwame
LO
Bynum
Farmar

Lakers get:
JO
Harrison
Tinsley
Granger

That trade is step 1. Reggie Evans MIGHT be available (according to Hoopsworld), so then we do this:

Denver gets:
Sasha
Brian Cook

Lakers get:
Reggie Evans

Roster would look like this:

Fisher-Tinsley-Crittenton
Kobe-Evans-Coby Karl
Granger-Luke-Radmanovic
JO-Reggie Evans-Turiaf
Mihm-Harrison

Both trades make sense because Indy gets to get rid of one of their bad contracts, and get everything they want. Losing Granger will hurt, but they have 2 other young SF's. Denver DESPERATELY needs shooters, and shouldn't be expecting to get too much for Evans.

How The Coaching Staff Can Improve This Season

1) Emphasize Defense.

2) Nurture Youth.

3) The Transition Game.

Notice how these are all things Phil Jackson doesn't do well and needs to improve upon as a head coach.

Miami is TRULY DESPERATE!!!! Just announced on Sportscenter, the Miami Heat have signed......ANFERNEE "PENNY" HARDAWAY!!!! LOL!!!! They can't get one player that is still playing to sign with them, so they pull out Shaq's old (and I mean old, bum kneed, can't run,and out of the league for 2 years) running mate!!!! LOL!!! Yeah KL, they are definitely gonna win the CHIP next year.

Faith,
"But trading a superstar is virtually franchise suicide"

As opposed to keeping the superstar, and not doing anything? How many of the league's "superstars" win titles? How many franchises get stuck in the "middle of the road" rut, partly because they have a superstar, which affects salary cap/free agent signings, and also keeps them from getting high draft picks? Trying to rebuild around an aging "superstar" rarely seems to work. (At this point, I am considering Kobe an "aging" superstar.) In fact, when has it, in recent history? The only time I can think of is the Spurs with David Robinson, and that doesn't really count, since his injury allowed them to get Duncan in the draft.

JJ,
"First thing, I don't think Kobe has the right to demand to play for a contender."

Yes, he does have that right. However, if the team does comply with his demand, he is still obligated to fulfill his contract to the best of his ability.