Either the price is right or no Boogaloo
I'll keep calling back this joke until it either stops amusing me (not likely to happen anytime soon) or YouTube runs out of clips (certainly a danger).
The Sporting News' Sean Deveney gives his 2 cents on the possibility of Jermaine O'Neal heading west, a relocation he doesn't picture happening. But for what it's worth, he's not banking on JO joining the Nets in the near future, either. Same reason in both cases. Larry Legend's asking price -- whether you're talking Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom or Richard Jefferson/Nenad Krstic -- is too much for a very good but not incredible player with a lot of tread on his often-injured tires. The Lakers situation, however, is two-fold. While Deveney thinks that the Lakers should stand their ground when it comes to declining Bird's current proposal, he also acknowledges that subbing Kwame Brown for Lamar Odom isn't quite giving the Pacers enough. Thus, the need to either add a third team in the mix or wait for Bird to lower his asking price.
As anyone who's heard me discuss this scenario would expect, I agree with Deveney. Swapping LO and Socks for O'Neal doesn't do the Lakers much good on a lot of levels. For starters (and most importantly), I don't think it makes them any better. The Lakers don't have enough depth to improve by simply swapping out players (especially when the new player has a tendency to miss games). The Lakers need to add a player to the Kobe-LO duo, not bring in an LO replacement (unless you're talking about a truly special guy like KG). Otherwise, you're arguably just thinning out an already talent-thin squad.
Sure, Kupchak can then try to flip Kwame Brown and his expiring contract for a third high-quality player. But who exactly is rumored to be available right now that would make an impact? Outside of Ron Artest (and his trading-block status seems to change by the hour), nobody really comes to mind. Plus, Kwame's health is uncertain at the moment, which puts a damper on the allure of his expiring contract. Even if his value is mostly represented in eventual cap space, Kwame's new team will still want a guy who can play. Until the trade deadline gets closer, unless part of a package, I'm not sure Kwame's quite the golden trade bait some of you might picture. But at any rate, unless the Lakers can find that third option, I see trading Odom and Bynum for O'Neal as a sideways move that robs the team of its best prospect or trade chip (depending on how you view Bynum) and adds a monster (and longer) contract to their books, which will make it even harder to add necessary pieces down the road. Sorry, but that's not worth doing, even if you're desperately hoping to make Kobe happy (especially when there's little reason or indication to think it would succeed).
There is one element I think could work in the Lakers' favor. O'Neal's got a valid beef that he didn't "demand" a trade and the media glossed over the "ifs" he used when describing parameters that would prompt a desire to play elsewhere. But I don't buy that O'Neal is happy in Indy, considering he just "happened" to know two teams he wouldn't mind playing for off the top of his head. Generally speaking, if you're content, you're not "open" to other scenarios, or even just "discussing" them. Plus, the cat's out of the proverbial bag, which can create a perception that Bird will eventually need to move O'Neal, which puts the receiving teams in the driver's seat. Even French Lick's favorite son admitted that JO flapping his yap made it more difficult to get fair value for him (whether he's looking to deal or not). Yet another example of why it never helps a team when a star player goes public with dissatisfaction, whether they're trying to trade or bring in troops to assist said A-lister. Perhaps the Lakers can capitalize on this element and -- assuming Bird can't make a different deal -- wait out and/or create a scenario that's best for them.
-- AK
In the category will these guys even learn
JO in going public with his desire/request/openness to play in LA or NJ has decreared the chances of it happening.
Go ask Kobe how that worked out for him and the Lakers
Posted by: Laker Lover | August 09, 2007 at 10:13 AM
******************************************************************************************************
ATTENTION BLOGGERS : TODAY IS J.J. DAY
*****************************************************************************************************
PAST HONOREES: MIKE TENIENTE, EDWIN GUECO, KLBEAST, GENERIC_ONE
NEXT HONOREE: FAITH
****************************************************************************************************
Do you remember that Laker playoff game when the lead kept changing and finally the Spurs hit
what we thought was the final shout and the whole Spurs team started celebrating? Do you remember
how you felt? And then with .04 seconds left Fish hit that trey for the winner? Remember how you felt.
WELL, DO YA? Well that’s sort of how it is with JJ’s Bloggings sometimes they make you mad as hell
and some times they make you say DAMMN this is some of the best stuff I’ve ever read. To some
JJ’s blogs are an acquired taste, but as they say “once you read one you can’t stop reading them”.
True the man is a touch sensitive - half the Blog had to spend valuable time we could have spent
arguing among each other and cursing each other out - to try and convince JJ to not desert the blog.
And praise the Lord he didn’t. And so on this August the 9th we would like to salute one of the
kindest, most Intelligent, most thin skin, and most astute elder statesmen of the Blog JJ. And to add
a personal word I was having a tuff time a little while ago and thanks to some advice from MR. JJ as
well as KL Beast everything worked out. So J man I personally would like to thank you. And don’t think
you can pull this leaving sh*t every time your feelings are hurt and get all these touching don’t go letters.
That Sh*t is good for one time, AND ONE TIME ONLY DO YOU HEAR ME MR.! LOL! If anybody knows
I know. So enjoy your day Mr. JJ and I’ll be looking for that check lol,
IN OTHER NEWS: REGGIE MILLER considers coming out of retirement to join the CELTICS.
*********** BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND ********************************************************************
Get it done Mitch, get it done fast
The Free Agents are fading,
Don’t end up picking last
Get it done Mitch, Get it done not for us
Get it done Mitch
You’re running out of trust
Get it done Mitch, I’m not taking sides
Get it done Mitch
Damn, have you no pride
You Once played with legends, Like Kareem and Magic
Now Jim Buss gives you orders
Man that’s so damn tragic
Get it done Mitch, This is our last cry
If you don’t get it done Mitch
Kobe will say goodbye and so will I
**********************************************************************************************************
55 WIN BANDWAGON MEMBERS:
(1) Laker Tom (2) Marty (3) Hobbit (4) Fearless Whack Job (5) Mamba24/10
(6) David Whang (7) BD (8) Dan Dan the Laker Fan (9) Long Time Laker Fan
(10) Roky (11) JoninJapan(In Canada) 12) JUNO (13) KEIFO,
(14) Alexinho17 (15) TALIQ (16) GENERIC_ONE (17) VIOLATER
(18) Twoody (19) SLO Gal (20) HobbitMage
Members at heart
(1) Bob
(2) Faith
************************************************************************************************************
WEARY-OF-BANDWAGON BANDWAGON MEMBERS
(1) Cbuck
(2) J. Walter WeatherMan
************************************************************************************************************
29 WIN BANDWAGON MEMBER
(1) SONNY BELFAST
************************************************************************************************************
AND NOW ROLL CALL
(1) FAITH, MIKE T. TALIQ, Edwin Gueco,, KEIFO, Mamba24Fan4Life, Fan of Mamba,Wolf,
JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ. JJ.
THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW, THA_SHOW,
KIWI, WOW, PEACE, J_COOL, DAVID WHANG, ADAM KILEY, LAKERSRYDEORDIE,
FISH_GUY,TIM-4-SHOW, THA_ SHOW, WESJOENIXON, BAYWOO, THE_D, SBPIMP,
CHARLES, Precious, NEVER, CALI KING, RICK FRIEDMAN,THIRTY2, EXHELODRVR,
GENERIC_ONE, TWOODY, JJ, AJAX, MITCHELL., LAKERTOM, LAKERFAN, CHARLES,
KHANG VMAN, KOREY, XTRO, MCGARNAGLE, GUGY, GDChild,Laker4Life,
KL BEAST, Jorema, FearlessWhackJob, MARTY, JANDRO, LAKERFAZE, PhxLkrFAN,
TexasLaker, BOB, TreacherousBalloons, EagleBoy, JR., EASTCOASTJESSIE, Zakee,
Swettual, Utzworld, Andrew Z, LAL Fan, BRANDON C., Kinglakernidas, BlackMamba24,
FKILLAH, CYRUS(VENTRILIQUIST), RespectMyAuthorith, Waterboy, Hariyahu,
ZEN, SARCOCOP,Staples24, Bobby, COMPTONS FINEST, MIGUELINHO, Greek Dude,
SOCALIFE, HAL9000, Greekdude, Michael J, Michael H, Michael A., Rick Friedman,
Gunner24, GINO, FATTY, CBUCK,LAKERGURL, CRITICAL BEATDOWN, PFUNK36,
PAUL LEE, Jay EL, SocalSpider , WEAVE MAN, JON KAVULIC, Tajluck, Alexinho17
BERKLEYLAKER, Dice8Up DION, KARL, CRAIG, MITCHELL, Lakers4Life,
JR, Dascilla, tellitlikeitisNik Kannan, GABE, SEAN P., HanSoulFood, HollywoodJack,
Jay Jay, TaosHum, HOBBITMAGE, Caeser, Obel, CHITOWNLAKER, ANGRYLAKER
wiZo, MagicShaq, HugoBoss, OSCAR, RDLEE, RealityBites, LakerLarry, Bucky, LEELO,
Juno, LakerLifer, C.S. JOVA, BLAZE1BX, Tripgame3, TSPHERE, SIXONEZERO
Mfeige, Reggie, Hollywood Jack, Reality Check Time, Jack In Hollywood, SLO Gal
JONINJAPAN(INCANADA), VIOLATER, LT Laker Fan, , KATE, TROY, Mainor
JEFF, ANDY B., SWANWORLD, PUPLE&GOLD_4EVA, BENNY BLANCA,
EMMA, TIM IN SYDNEY RISING STAR, LakerBake, JuanMan888,Blkthght06
,Ghost of Spiderman, STEVE IN DENVER, GUY OWANLELE, Lincoln Laker
MITCH KUPCHAK, JERRY BUSS, PHIL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT
Marc Gasol, Sun Yue, Shamond, Williams, Ronny Turiaf, V. Radmanovic,
Maurice Evans, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, Luke Walton, Brian Cook,
Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Coby Karl, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar, Jarvis Critterton, JERMAINE ONEAL???
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES
THE HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
ELGIN BAYLOR, JERRY WEST, PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, SILK
COACHED BY THE 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON AND
NO ONE AND NOTHING WILL EVER DIVIDE OR CONQUER US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
Posted by: Mamba24/10 | August 09, 2007 at 10:13 AM
I don't know why, but "no Boogaloo" reminds me of "no soup for you". Perhaps it's because it has the same number of syllables and rhymes.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kNwbjcuQUv8
AK... maybe once you run out of Breakin clips, you could move on to Seinfeld.
Posted by: generic_one | August 09, 2007 at 10:28 AM
Kobe on Kimmel:
Big opportunity to squash all of this mess...didn't happen ! Keep in mind I'm a huge Kobe fan and a life long laker fan but last night was a chance to make some sorta statement ! Even that nagging injury I predicted may have sprung up last night. A Vacuum cleaner though was the culprit.
AK/BK,
This may be out there but do you think theres a chance Kobe could go play in Europe ? Thus still playing ball but not with our Lakers. I personally doubt he'd give up any chance at Kareem's ( my chilhood idol) all-time scoring record, but at this point we don't know what he's thinking. But then a again Mr. Buss could have canned his son Jim ( aka the source) and ended all of this months ago !
Posted by: lalakerlover | August 09, 2007 at 10:29 AM
LO: 15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 0.6 bpg, .47 fg%. (in the Western Conf.)
JO: 19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.6 bpg, .44 fg%. (in the Eastern Conf.)
Trading LO for JO is a sideways move. Plus LO is a very unique and special player who can do things that no one else can do at his size. I just hope the pressure will force Bird to accept a different package for O'Neal that doesn't include LO.
Posted by: ajax | August 09, 2007 at 10:33 AM
Generic_one,
"i don't know why, but "no Boogaloo" reminds me of "no soup for you". Perhaps it's because it has
the same number of syllables and rhymes"
G stop this, Stop this now! You are so esoteric LOL!
You know it reminds me of No Bo Bo! That's Sh*t for the uninitiated.
Posted by: Mamba24/10 | August 09, 2007 at 10:36 AM
Ajax,
"Trading LO for JO is a sideways move. Plus LO is a very unique and special player"
MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN ! You read my mind.
Posted by: Mamba24/10 | August 09, 2007 at 10:41 AM
Best line on Jimmy Kimmel:
Kobe - Yeah I tweaked my back the other day
Kimmel - Is it sore from carrying the Lakers the last 3 years?
Posted by: Jay Jay | August 09, 2007 at 10:53 AM
AK-
Speakin' of Breakin'...check out this clip of a young Alphonso Ribeiro (aka: Carlton) selling an instructional book on Breakin' and Poppin'!!!
http://www.ejb.com/video/16844/Break_and_pop.html
Posted by: ajax | August 09, 2007 at 10:53 AM
finally, somebody comes out and says what those of us against the Jermaine ONeal trade have been saying:
"One general manager wonders about O'Neal, "What's a fair-market value for a guy with that contract and injury history, coming off a bad year like that? He's an All-Star, in the East. But where does he rank on the list of forwards in the league? Not even Top 10."
----------------------
still wanna give up Odom AND Bynum for ONE GUY and his giant contract? Then when Kobe leaves, we can build around... a "not even" top 10 forward with a giant contract! Hoofa!
Posted by: TaosHum | August 09, 2007 at 10:55 AM
Do Not Trade Bynum Away!!! Kobe will walk no matter who the Lakers get. Bynum and Crittenton are the franchise's future. They may even have a monster upcoming year.
Posted by: Rising Star | August 09, 2007 at 10:59 AM
Kobe did more than just appear on Jimmy Kimmel on Wednesday night. Here's the scoop on TMZ.com:
http://www.tmz.com/2007/08/09/kobe-and-wife-rebound-from-divorce-rumors/
Whatever's going on with Kobe and the Lakers, the dude definitely knows how to be out and about in style!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | August 09, 2007 at 11:03 AM
I think the Lakers have two options right now:
1) Don't do anything else, pray to God Kobe doesn't do anything else but show up to camp and play, and use their increasingly valuable trade assets later in the season to make major moves.
*I find this option highly unlikely because I think Kobe is going to be anything but cooperative.
2) Trade Kobe before training camp.
I feel that Option #2 is the best way to go. Any trade to placate Kobe while he has one foot out the door and has had every opportunity to clear the air but hasn't would be stupid on management's part.
And I would love to see a show of hands of those who think Kobe will come to camp and play and behave like none of this happened. Do you honestly think this is done? Yeah, me neither.
So put me on the "Trade Kobe" bandwagon so we can get the soap opera over with and start building the next Laker dynasty.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2007 at 11:07 AM
Alright, I'm not sure exactly how to share this story with you as it's better if you can see the pictures as you're reading, but whatever... I'll give it a shot. There's a Part II that I'll probably post later.
**********************************************************
I Hate Bees.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/background2.jpg
The day was fun the day was great
I hadn't yet sat down to… ate
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/sammich.jpg
I'd made my sammich, good and true
I sat on down under skyish blue
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/happy.jpg
Happy I was, gleeful I beed
The sunny day was all I need
ed
(DON'T BLAME ME CAUSE I CAN'T THINK OF SOMETHING THAT WOULD FIT RIGHT THERE AND RHYME WITH "BEED" AND YEAH I JUST MADE THAT WORD UP)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/background2.jpg
A sound from yonder distance came
Could it be snow? Could it be rain?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/singlebeedistant.jpg
The buzzing came, the buzzing crept
The ringing in my ears was kept
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/unsure.jpg
A shocking glance I did obtain
From eating my sammich I did abstain
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg
I stared in wonder, stared in fright
I stared a stare of awe to the right
(YES, THAT'S YOUR RIGHT, JERKFACE)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeesdistant.jpg
The buzzing came, the buzzing crept
The ringing in my ears was kept
(I KNOW IT'S A REPEAT IT'S ARTISTIC, JESUS!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg
The bees, the bees, the bees they are a comin'
The bees, the bees, the bees they are a comin'
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg
"WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'
WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg
Oh my heavens, oh my stars!
Why aren't these bees behind some bars?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg
"WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'
WE BEES, WE BEES, WE BEES WE ARE A COMIN'"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/sammich.jpg
"THE SAMMICH, THE SAMMICH WE ALL DEMAND THE SAMMICH"
(AND YES I KNOW HOW TO SPELL SAMMICH, DAMMIT)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg
NO, NO! NOT MY LOVELY SAMMICH
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg
"THE SAMMICH, THE SAMMICH WE ALL DEMAND THE SAMMICH"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/sammich.jpg
NO, NO! NOT MY LOVELY SAMMICH!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg
"WE'LL TAKE THE SAMMICH, TAKE THE SAMMICH"
(OKAY RIGHT ABOUT NOW YOU SHOULD BE PRAYING FOR YOUR LIFE CAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'D BE DOING)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg
NO, NO!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/beesonsammich.jpg
"WE'LL TAKE THE SAMMICH, TAKE THE SAMMICH"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/scared.jpg
NO, NO! NOT MY LOVELY SAMMICH!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/beewithflag.jpg
"WE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG
OF SOME UNITED CREPES OF BOLOGNA
AND TO THE BEEPUBLIC
FOR SAMMICH WE STAND
ONE HIVE UNDER THE QUEEN…"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/manybeescloseup.jpg
"UNDER THE QUEEN! UNDER THE QUEEN!"
(THEY'RE REPEATING THE VERSE CAUSE THEY FORGOT THE WORDS JUST LIKE I DID OKAY! AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS MADE UP PLEDGE I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REAL THING CAUSE WHY THE HELL WOULD I KNOW SOME BEE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, HUH??)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/beewithflag.jpg
"ONE HIVE UNDER THE QUEEN!"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/runaway.jpg
"TO LIBERATE THE SAMMICH FOR EVERYONE!"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/background2.jpg
"...."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/genericone/bloodybees.jpg
"WE BEES, WE BEES, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR SOULS!
WE BEES, WE BEES, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR SOULS!"
(HAH! GOOD LUCK!!)
Posted by: generic_one | August 09, 2007 at 11:07 AM
Ajax & Mamba24/10,
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both. I understand your reasoning concerning the comparison of their stats coupled with the intangibles LO can bring to the court. However, you are missing a few other things that shouldn't be overlooked. When comparing the two it is wrong to simply use stats because this isn't about simply stats. It is much more about style of play. Although they may have similar stats, the fact that their style of play is much different, makes one more suitable for certain systems over the other. For instance, KG is a much more versatile big man than Shaq has ever been, yet I doubt that the Lakers would have won those 3 titles if KG had been inserted instead of Shaq. They play entirely different games.
LO may be the more versatile player but his versatility isn't necessarily a good thing for the Lakers. There is such a saying as jack of all trades, master of none. He can do a whole lot, but is he the best at anything in particular? Is he even top 5 at any thing in particular? The Lakers are in need of someone to man the paint on defense and someone to demand a double team in the post on offense. LO does neither of those things effectively or consistently.
For Lamar to be the player of choice for the Lakers he needs to be moved to small forward, otherwise he is not the right player for the team.
Posted by: JJ | August 09, 2007 at 11:09 AM
JJ:
Glad you’re still here. Your post about Lamar makes a lot of sense.
If we had a power forward like JO, then I would have no problem with moving Lamar to small forward or point forward as you term it. I know there are a lot of bloggers who agree with you and would prefer seeing Lamar playing at the 3. Considering our current roster, however, I prefer to see Lamar playing at the 4 and scoring in the low block and grabbing rebounds rather than dribbling the ball on the perimeter, putting up 3 pointers, and committing offensive fouls trying to drive into the paint.
I do agree there are power forwards like Duncan and Boozer that Lamar cannot guard but you just adjust and have Kwame or another defender guard these guys. If Lamar played the 3, there would also small forwards that he would not be quick enough to guard. It’s always a case of the match-ups. In any event, get me a real power forward and I have no problem moving Lamar to the 3. Until we do, however, I think his best position on this team is at the 4. Now if Mihm or Kwame could play the 4, again I have no problem with Lamar moving to the 3.
As to being able to be the second scorer, I think Lamar had taken strides last year to becoming that player before he got injured. It is harder for Lamar to score with the Lakers because of Kobe having the ball so much and the Triangle Offense being more structured and not giving Lamar as much freedom in the open court to run, which is where he may be at his most dangerous. I would like to see us run a lot more, especially when Lamar grabs the board.
Bottom line, I do think that Lamar feels the pressure to score and that he would be a better player if he didn’t have that load on him. That is why I think bringing in JO would really trigger this team to the next level. With KB and JO doing most of the scoring, it would allow Lamar to really play the point forward role you envision for him. Anyway, that’s how I see things with Lamar right now. Welcome back.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2007 at 11:12 AM
OK. So here's a question for everyone.
What do you think is the most likely thing to happen? Larry Bird cracks and gives up JO without getting Lamar, the Lakers crack and give away Bynum AND Lamar, Kobe gets traded away for whoever, or absolutely nothing happens and everyone stands pat?
Posted by: DavyJonze | August 09, 2007 at 11:19 AM
AZ,
The worst thing the Lakers could do right now is trade Kobe. He has made it so that they will get the least amount for him right now. Instead they should keep him.
What's the worst that could happen if they don't trade him? He could possibly sit out. LET HIM! If he actually would rather sit out then play, LET HIM. I would still prefer that over trading him. If he sits out, all he will do is hurt himself, which is why I reallydoubt that he would. But, if he is crazy enough to do that.....let him do it. BUT don't trade him.
Posted by: JJ | August 09, 2007 at 11:22 AM
Generic_one,
"Unfortunately, I have some bad news. Three other things that happened today:
1974: Nixon left the White House after resigning.
1969: Manson Cult killed five people in Roman Polanski's home.
1945: Atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki.
If this is a sign of things to come, it's not going to be a good day in Laker Land."
So, if Kobe was traded today would that be a good or bad day in Laker land?
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2007 at 11:26 AM
DavyJonze,
In this order:
1) Absolutely nothing happens and everyone stands pat.
2) Kobe gets traded
3) Larry Bird gives up JO without getting Odom
4)Lakers give up LO and Bynum for JO
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2007 at 11:29 AM
Andrew Z:
Hah... answered in the other thread. It depends on what we get back for him. ; )
Posted by: generic_one | August 09, 2007 at 11:33 AM
JJ-
I understand what you're saying. But JO's strong point of handling the paint and demanding double teams while getting only 19.4 ppg in the Eastern Conference isn't gonna do much good if he did that on the Lakers in the West. LO is too valuable to give up for that. If the Lakers could land JO while keeping LO, LO would be moved to the SF position.
Posted by: ajax | August 09, 2007 at 11:35 AM
JJ,
I agree that it's better to let Kobe sit out IF THEY CAN'T GET A GOOD DEAL FOR HIM. Obviously they shouldn't trade him just to get it over with. If I were them I would stick to what they're doing and that's saying that they expect Kobe to show up in camp as a Laker. By them saying that rather than saying they are going to deal him and put him on the inactive list keeps them in the positive eye of the fans and also saves them money (Kobe won't get paid if he doesn't show up...actually, I think he has to show up under CBA rules). In the meantime, you put feelers out and see what you can get.
Obviously when you trade a player like Kobe, you won't get equal value in return. It's impossible, he's the best player in the league. But individual ability isn't everything. They can get some good young pieces and financial flexibility which would make the next few steps in building a championship team much easier than what they face now.
So, I still think trading Kobe is the best thing they can do, and the less messy in the media the better...for all involved.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2007 at 11:36 AM
DavyJonze, how about Odom and/or Kwame get moved at the trade deadline for a disgruntled or rejuvenated PF? Kenyon Martin might be a trade deadline mover, depending on how he plays this year. Kwame and filler? Not that I'm pushing this particular move at this moment but, projecting forward towards December/January, there might be a number of interesting players that pop up and teams that will be looking to unload unfavorable contracts.
Posted by: TaosHum | August 09, 2007 at 11:45 AM
Mamba 24/10:
Thanks for the love, man. Really....I mean it. After reading your roll call for the past 3 months, that made my day.
KL Beast:
What is your take on Bynum? Wait on him, although no sure thing, or ship his ass out for proven veteran help? I don't recall ever reading your position on this. Are you buying into this kid, or are you selling?
Btw, you appear to have dated yourself as somewhat of a youngster. You really don't remember the Lakers/Celtics rivalry from the 80's? That rivalry is the reason I'm typing this to you right now. As Steve in Denver would attest, the showtime era is the essence of everything good with the Lakers and with LA sports in general. Can you imagine how spoiled we were going to the NBA finals every year for what seemed like an entire decade? Now you have an idea of why folks on this blog are so passionate and so upset at the FO and are completely behind Kobe for calling them out. What I have noticed is that the younger guys on this blog with a lesser developed sense of Laker history seem to be more critical of Kobe than the older Laker heads who came up in the 80's during the rivalry. I think it's because we know that this franchise is the standard-bearer for excellence since the inception of the NBA and players such as Kobe are old school win-at-all cost competitors. Fyi, Magic Johnson did the same thing in 1982 my friend. He publically demanded in the press that the team trade him because he was not going to play for Paul Westhead anymore. Magic didn't like the Westhead's slow it down half court offense and he didn't believe that they were maximizing the talent on the team. And you know what happened? Jerry Buss shipped Westhead's ass out of LA to placate his superstar and brought in Riley. Considering that Magic was only a 2-year player in the league at this time, this sort of thing was remarkable. Kobe, like Magic and Jordan and Bird and Barkley, is about winning at all costs. Guys like that are just wired differently. Being tactful and sugarcoating things and playing politics can sometimes prove difficult to these people. It's hard to fault a guy like this because you know he's right. What good does killing the messenger and ignoring the message serve? Anyway, I digress. My point is, if the Celtics truly are back, it is dissappointing that the Lakers are so far away, and the majority of some posters on this blog find every conceivable way to crucify the guy who placed a huge spot light on the main reason why the team is in bad shape--that being management's & ownership's complacency and contentment with mediocrity.
Another story from the 80's that you may or may not be aware of (and Steve in Denver can attest): Big Game James was up for a contract extension and his negotiations with the team were stalemating. It later came out in the press that he was arrested for soliciting prostitution. Despite having won a couple of Chips, Jerry Buss decided that BGJ was not worth the money and the bad press (kind of hypocritical when you think about it) and told Jerry West to trade him. Jerry West threatened that he would resign before he traded BGJ and Buss eventually conceded.
Anyway, this is the example that first comes to mind of someone being there to save Laker ownership from itself. The problem, as Kobe has so inartfully stated, is that there is no one like that anymore.
Posted by: Blkthght06 | August 09, 2007 at 11:47 AM
Mamba 24/10,
I said "29 Wins in 2010" which is conditional on "No Kobe, No Lamar, No Andrew, No ???"
which is the road that so many Laker fans seem intent (perhaps unwittingly) to travel.
Remove the asterisk from Barry Bond's Home Run Title and add it to my "2010" bandwagon prediction.
Sonnybelfast
Posted by: sonnybelfast | August 09, 2007 at 11:49 AM
I know the topic of the moment is Jermaine O’Neal, but come on folks we need to focus on the elephant in the room. Kobe Bryant, our megastar and team leader wants out. Period! He is unwilling to verbally commit to the Lakers and Bucher continues to reiterate what Kobe won’t. He wants out of L.A. We should be looking to deal Kobe before we deal anyone else. We are talking about the future of the franchise and if that means trading Kobe, then trade Kobe! As great as he is, he is not the franchise and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear Magic voice his frustrations about Kobe at some point.
I would push for Kobe to expand his list of teams that he is willing to be traded to. Ideally I would trade him to New Jersey for Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and New Jerseys 08 #1. Because Carter signed a new contract the deal couldn’t happen until Dec 16th. Kobe talks of how much he enjoys Jason Kidd’s game and would like to play with him. Well, here ya go, Kobe! Adios.
Posted by: LT79 Laker Fan | August 09, 2007 at 11:52 AM
JJ,
Here's my formula for a successful Kobe trade.
1) DO NOT TAKE BACK BAD CONTRACT(S)
Let's call this the Brian Grant Rule. They are going to have to take back at least one big contract ($8-$15 million a year) to make a deal for Kobe work and not have 27 guys on the roster. That contract either needs to be an expiring deal or a young All-Star. Since it's more than likely we want financial flexibility moving forward, let's say it's a MUST we get a large expiring deal.
2) GET A YOUNG ALL-STAR/PROSPECTIVE ALL-STAR
We'll call this the Al Jefferson Rule. You need to have a centerpiece of this deal, and said centerpiece has to have shown, on a consistent basis, that they are going to be on a perenial All-Star level. Andrew Bynum would not fit in this category. Players that I feel do are Al Jefferson, Brandon Roy, Luol Deng, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Josh Howard, etc. We need someone who is going to be a long-term piece of this team OR has extremely high value around the league.
3) YOUNG PROSPECTS
We'll call this the Andrew Bynum Rule. These are players that have shown flashes of greatness but haven't done so on a regular basis and are more often categorized as having "tremendous upside potential" than "immediate contributor". Others in this category are Gerald Green, Thabo Sefalosha, David Lee, etc.
4) DRAFT PICKS
This one is the least important for the simple fact that whatever team Kobe goes to is going to be pretty good and the draft pick will be late in the first round. However, it's nice to have extra 1st rounders in the event of a trade for another star player.
So, its not impossible to get a good deal done, I think they're out there. However, I think for the Lakers to satisfy all of the above points in trading Kobe, they will have to get at least three teams involved in the deal (see my Dallas-Miami-Lakers trade from yesterday).
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2007 at 11:56 AM
JJ
This paragraph should have been at the top headline of today's story because it sums up what Lamar Odom does not do. His value is over-inflated. He has not made an ALL Star team yet AK swears that it's pretty much a wash between the 2. It's not a wash at all for the reasons you mentioned.
I don't even want to start on Andrew Bynum and the reasons his value is wayyyy over inflated. If Bynum was that good Bird would have already grabbed him and some draft picks from the Lakers and we would not be talking about this deal.
JJ eloquently wrote (Jack of many trades but MASTER OF NONE)
"LO may be the more versatile player but his versatility isn't necessarily a good thing for the Lakers. There is such a saying as jack of all trades, master of none. He can do a whole lot, but is he the best at anything in particular? Is he even top 5 at any thing in particular? The Lakers are in need of someone to man the paint on defense and someone to demand a double team in the post on offense. LO does neither of those things effectively or consistently.
""
Posted by: LakerBake | August 09, 2007 at 11:59 AM
Blkthght06
"Guys like that are just wired differently."
GREAT POST! you're right, i was only able to catch the Showtime Lakers at the tail end circa 1988 when they went back-to-back. I also agree with you that pro-sport athletes are wired differently. I'm willing to recant my "rants" if kobe proves me wrong.
part of my agenda is to point out that kobe has his faults and that kobe played an integral part in our present situation. if kobe's Summer of Rage proves to be beneficial for the lakers, i'll be happy to recant. so far, i don't think it's paid off. just my take.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 09, 2007 at 12:00 PM
Blkthght06
"What is your take on Bynum? Wait on him, although no sure thing, or ship his ass out for proven veteran help? I don't recall ever reading your position on this. Are you buying into this kid, or are you selling?"
on the bynum question, i think you have to move him to compete "right now" assuming kobe will stick it out. i think kobe's summer of rage has damaged the relationship with management/owner which might make the bet to "ship bynum out" as too risky.
Posted by: KLBeast | August 09, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Will anyone complain about this?
http://tinyurl.com/2ovdxx
Mihm+Harrison
O'Neal+Turiaf+Cook
Smith+Walton+Radmanovic
Bryant+Sefolosha
Fish+Claxton+Crittendon
Posted by: any_one_mouse | August 09, 2007 at 12:05 PM
*************************************
CLeon I apologize The Roll Call
Left Your Name off. It will be on
it tommorrow. Sorrry :>)
**************************************
Posted by: Mamba24/10 | August 09, 2007 at 12:06 PM
AK says
"I see trading Odom and Bynum for O'Neal as a sideways move that robs the team of its best prospect or trade chip (depending on how you view Andrew Bynum) and adds a monster (and longer) contract to their books, which will make it even harder to add necessary pieces down the road. Sorry, but that's not worth doing, even if you're desperately hoping to make Kobe happy (especially when there's little reason or indication to think it would succeed)."
AK for the life of me I am trying to figure out why you think JO's contract is so disruptive when he has the same amount of yrs left on his deal as Lamar Odom. JO will come off the books and help clear them if he is not kept just as Lamar will.
Why would the Lakers want to re-sign Lamar Odom anyway. His salary slot is for an ALL Star which he is not. It amazes me how this JayVee Lakers team is so embraced when we've all witnessed what real Laker teams are made of. To start with, ALL STARS!!!!!! We have 1 and only 1 right now.
As decrepit as everyone swears JO is, Lamar Odom is back on the shelf for the 3rd or 4th time as a Laker.
I don't know why you think adding JO will not make the Lakers a harmonious, tougher, veteran, and happier team including KOBE. It's obvious. KOBE is not talking because his talking vibrates louder than Tiger Woods because of the media infatuation with KOBE.
With JO and without Andrew and LO, in 2 summers we are as free as you think we'll be keeping Andrew and JO. KOBE and JO could roll off and we can rebuild.
As a trade chip, Andrew Bynum is at his height right now because if he improves the Lakers are going to give him 50-100 million which would be a joke. If he gets worse, so does his trade value unless someone is stupid enough to execute the KWAME for CARON BUTLER sequel trade.
Fat chance unless Mitch is traded to another NBA team.
Posted by: LakerBake | August 09, 2007 at 12:08 PM
Hey RISING STAR,
Have not seen ya before but have no idea why you'd think Bynum and Crittenton are our young future. If so it's a dark, dim, and dismal future.
Why on earth would we think Javaris Crittenton is as good as Nick Van Exel, not mentioning a Norm Nixon???
Why on earth would we think Andrew Bynum is as good as Vlade Divac, don't even think of Kareem Abdul Jabaar?
So if Divac and Van Exel can't bring a title and they were both run out of town then what's the point holding on to them when good trades come about to add to the BEST player in the league who we OWN his rights for 2 YEARS.
The Lakers are not some mom and pop shop unless we act like it (See Shaq trade).
We own KOBE's rights. Game over for 2 yrs!
Posted by: LakerBake | August 09, 2007 at 12:11 PM
Lakerbake,
"AK for the life of me I am trying to figure out why you think JO's contract is so disruptive when he has the same amount of yrs left on his deal as Lamar Odom."
Off the top of my head, I'd say it's mostly because JO's contract (which is WAY more expensive) actually runs longer than Odom's. Odom's ends in '09. JO's in '10.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 09, 2007 at 12:12 PM
ajax,
you missed something very key though...O'Neal has never played with somebody like Kobe who demands a constant double team. If you have O'Neal in the paint deanding a double, and then you have Kobe on the perimeter demanding a double.....that means at least 2 players are left uncovered for the Lakers. Fisher made a living during the playoffs in 2001 hitting tose open shots. He would eat that stuff up now.
AZ,
I say don't trade him period. What is so wrong with letting him walk in 2 years? First off, trust me, Kobe won't sit out for two season....call his bluff. Second, in two seasons, we will know just how good Bynum will be. IF Bynum does keep developing into a franchise center.....will we care about Kobe walking in two years? I say let him sit and stew in it! The Lakers should be doen making moves just to appease Kobe.
Posted by: JJ | August 09, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Blkthght06,
"Mamba 24/10: Thanks for the love, man. Really....I mean it. After reading your roll call for the past 3 months, that made my day."
No Problem BK. I should have had it up there sooner.
Posted by: Mamba24/10 | August 09, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Personally I am willing to bet some money that the overly non - creative, cliche loving headline writers at ESPN.com will have a headline that says "Miller Time?" before this is over...as this thing heats up they wont be able to resist it....trust me
Posted by: Kiwi | August 09, 2007 at 12:14 PM
WOW
This post by Blkthght06
shows that you need a strong GM.
If Mitch were to threaten to resign would the Lakers have trouble finding a YES man to replace him??? I think JIM BUSS puts a cloud over that position. Jerry West would not dare return under this current ownership regime.
Another story from the 80's that you may or may not be aware of (and Steve in Denver can attest): Big Game James was up for a contract extension and his negotiations with the team were stalemating. It later came out in the press that he was arrested for soliciting prostitution. Despite having won a couple of Chips, Jerry Buss decided that BGJ was not worth the money and the bad press (kind of hypocritical when you think about it) and told Jerry West to trade him. Jerry West threatened that he would resign before he traded BGJ and Buss eventually conceded.
Posted by: LakerBake | August 09, 2007 at 12:15 PM
AK
There must be a typo on the ESPN trade machine because it says Lamar and Jermaine have 2 yrs remaining.
However, the way you make LO and JO comparing apples and apples is not accurate. LO is a promising veteran who has never fullfilled promise.
He didn't take Miami far.
Do we remember the Clippers losing days? He was a LOSER with so much promise, potential, Magic Johnson like dimensions with nothing inside to make it come to fruition.
JO has made a solid name for himself. Scored 57 points in a game, took a team deep in the playoffs. Got out of the 1st round multiple times. Made multiple All Star teams.
Learned under Scottie Pippen, Greg Anthony, Sabonis, and the Portland vets.
But as you say, they're one in the same.
The story of JO and LO.
Posted by: LakerBake | August 09, 2007 at 12:19 PM
OK folks...i am a first time poster..long time reader...
for all you 'trade kobe' people...get off your rocker...seriously...he is the best talent on the planet...what is wrong with you people...do you people read what Kidd, Durant, Nowitizki, Colengalo tc...all say about him from team USA...he is the star of stars - every time he plays!...seriously, we have michael jordan and some people just don't like hime for his sometimes surly nature and the colorado thing...
also - for all you JO=LO becuase of stats -- you are all dead wrong because JO got those stats with no help...now he will have Kobe to pull double teams away and leave the paint open...further Kobe finally will have someone to dump it into insteadf LO let me shoot a 3 because i can't shoot a 4' and kwame who just plain sucks...and AB who is a freakin teenager... we need a threat in the paint
peace..i'm out...
Posted by: koberocks | August 09, 2007 at 12:26 PM
Andrew Z,
You mention your four trade points, but do you really think that there is a trade out there that will fit those that would be beneficial to the Lakers? Come on, McHale is being criticized like crazy right now and being accused of letting his Old Celtic bias dictate that move of KG. Yet, you think that the Lakers can find a trade that is going to be good? I doubt it. Kobe is so much more difficult to work in a trade than anybody else other than Shaq. You always hit me with being realistic, but you aren't being realistic right now.
LakerBake,
Although we seem to agree in part about Lamar not being a master of anything, that is where our agreement ends. I never said that he wasn't an All-Star caliber player or overrated. He is still underrated....it's just that his strengths AS BEING USED BY THE LAKERS, aren't benefitting the Lakers enough to make him worth saving over gaining O'Neal. As for Bynum, at 19, I think he deserves more time before you start calling him overrated. How can you call a 19 year old overrated? They haven't even stopped growing at 19. We could call Oden overrated....considering he got the number 1 pick even though there are clear holes in his game on both ends.
Posted by: JJ | August 09, 2007 at 12:27 PM
JJ,
i agree that Kobe won't sit out, I'd be shocked if he did. And I also agree that the Lakers need to call his bluff and not make a panic move.
However, where I think we differ, and maybe I differ from the front office, is that I don't feel this is a Kobe or Bynum thing. I don't think Andrew Bynum is a franchise guy. I think he can be an All-Star, but I see him more as a Illgauskas, Magloire, Divac type player than a Shaq, Yao, Kareem type. I think going forward with a Kobe trade a young prospect at center isn't what you need, but i'm definitely not comfortable handing over the reigns to Bynum as the franchise.
Also, this team would suck for two years without Kobe and neither the franchise nor Kobe would benefit from him sitting out. Like him or not, he's done a lot of wonderful things for the Los Angeles Lakers and the city. I would like to think that both Kobe and Dr. Buss have spoken and agreed to keep this behind closed doors while they pursue a trade that is best for both parties. At the end of the day it would be nice if both said they enjoyed their time together but it's time to go our separate ways.
I absolutely believe that the Lakers, post Kobe Trade, could be a better club next year than they have been the last three. It's just a matter of making the right deal.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Nice two man game by Kobe and JO...already showing some chemistry...
A bit short sighted however....Both of these idiots should stick to basketball
1)Larry Bird is not going to do for the lakers what Mchale did for the celtics.
2) JO does not have a no trade clause so if the pacers get a better offer than what the lakers can give him which is highly likely unless we overpay (Bynum Odom) then He will trade him there...personally I think the deal is pretty much pointless if they let Lamar go.
3) Bird might be smart enough to put business ahead of personal vendetta's but whatever else but hes sure as heck not going to want to Make all of JO's dreams come true after the guy has put him in such a position....
These guys should stop wrecking the league and just play...they are being paid enough.Be professional.JO is soft and injury prone anyway...anyone remember his bad body language in game 6 of the eastern finals when they lost to the pistons...supposed to be the leader and he cost them a chance to win that game.Trade Odom for this loser and we've had it...trade Bynum, Brown,Radmanovic and Farmar and we MIGHT have a team if Kobe can rein in his out of control self righteousness and ego.At least with those two massive contracts and next to no character we might have a chance to pay off the ref's....
GO La..k....e.....r......s......
Posted by: Kiwi | August 09, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Boogaloo! Yay!
Posted by: J. Walter Weatherman | August 09, 2007 at 12:32 PM
Lakerbake,
According to USA Today and Hoophype, O'Neal's contract runs through 2010.
As for your contention that LO never took Miami anywhere, I'm not sure that's really fair, considering he only spent one season there. During that season, he played a very big role in taking an inexperienced team to the semi's. That certainly isn't terrible. And considering that aside from one trip to the Eastern conference finals, JO's only gotten out of the first round once in 7 seasons with Indiana (as opposed to the "multiple times" you claim), I don't see what your point is.
Also, I've never claimed O'Neal and Odom are equal players. I actually think O'Neal is a little better, all in all. But I don't think he's so much better that he can help carry the Lakers as part of a two-man show through a brutal Western conference, nor do I think he's good enough to compensate for the depth lost in that trade. Throw in the contract/Kobe issues I've already mentioned and I just don't think that proposal makes sense for the Lakers. But clearly, you don't agree. And that's fine.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 09, 2007 at 12:35 PM
lakerBlake
WRONG JO is a loser...other than Artest he was the biggest reason those great Indiana teams never went anywhere...hes never fulfilled his promise either...hes whiny,soft,injury prone, especially in the playoffs...and threw the worst punch the NBA has ever seen bar Kermit Washington's....at a little fan no less.
get him of you can but he's not all he's cracked up to be and not a great improvement on Odom...if an improvement at all.
Posted by: Kiwi | August 09, 2007 at 12:38 PM
JO is owed 67 million for the next 3 years. That is Superstar money!
Lets make one thing clear, JO is not a Superstar.. He is not a Kobe, Wade, Lebron..
You think Buss will pay 3 players 60 million and the rest peanuts?? Buss will not mirror the Celtic gameplan. He will not trade youth for JO with a chance Kobe will walk. Folks, I know you hate to hear this, but Bynum and Critt are the FUTURE!!!!
THEY WILL NOT BE TRADED DUE TO KOBE'S OUTBURST!!!!
The only trade I might consider if I was Buss is ODOM AND KWAME for JO..take it or leave it BIRD, but you are not getting the KIDS.... Again, KOBE forced this on management, with that tirade, alarm bells went off in LAKERVILLE that confirmed that the rebuilding plan they have been on is the right direction to take, cemented even more with KOBE outburst...
KOBE makes one more cry out to be traded, Lakers make it happen, get some youth with talent. I am ready to watch LAKER BASKETBALL again!!!!!
The 3 BEST GAMES played last year was games, 1,2,3, when KOBE was hurt, tell me, was the ball movement unbeleivable those 3 games?? Of course it was... KOBE get with the game plan or get out!!!!!
bd
Posted by: bd | August 09, 2007 at 12:50 PM
Odom vs. JO
To add to AK's comparison, Lamar is actually younger than Jermaine as well.
Not that anyone gives a hoot.
Posted by: akr_68 | August 09, 2007 at 12:51 PM